Re: Hard to write, harder to decide

[PawsForThought]

>From: "David S."

>How can
>I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
>decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
>Eating and death.
>

I am so sorry for what you're going through. It's a very tough decision
indeed. I guess it all amounts to quality of life. Do you think she is still
enjoying her life? I think no matter what we decide, we will always be
wondering if we chose the right time. With my last cat, I did finally decide
it would be most humane to put her down. Afterwards, I really questioned
whether or not I'd done the right thing. But after I got over the initial pain
and shock, I knew that I had done the right thing. I think we'll never know
100% but what's important, IMO, is the quality of life. Is the cat still
eating? Is she still going to the bathroom in a normal manner? Does she still
move around normally? Does she seem happy, or is she suffering? These are
just a few questions. But ultimately, you have to be the one to make that
painful decision. Again, I am so sorry.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

[PawsForThought]

>From: "David S."

>How can
>I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
>decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
>Eating and death.
>

I am so sorry for what you're going through. It's a very tough decision
indeed. I guess it all amounts to quality of life. Do you think she is still
enjoying her life? I think no matter what we decide, we will always be
wondering if we chose the right time. With my last cat, I did finally decide
it would be most humane to put her down. Afterwards, I really questioned
whether or not I'd done the right thing. But after I got over the initial pain
and shock, I knew that I had done the right thing. I think we'll never know
100% but what's important, IMO, is the quality of life. Is the cat still
eating? Is she still going to the bathroom in a normal manner? Does she still
move around normally? Does she seem happy, or is she suffering? These are
just a few questions. But ultimately, you have to be the one to make that
painful decision. Again, I am so sorry.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

[[email protected]]

It's a really hard decision to make and hte best judge of it will be you.
I will say I think it is time when the pet no longer shows any enjoyment
of life. Things she enjoys she doesn't care about (attention, food, toys),
she just looks like she is waiting for death to come.

It's really hard but you will have to be the one to decide when that is
since they cannot tell us, but I think you will know.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

[[email protected]]

It's a really hard decision to make and hte best judge of it will be you.
I will say I think it is time when the pet no longer shows any enjoyment
of life. Things she enjoys she doesn't care about (attention, food, toys),
she just looks like she is waiting for death to come.

It's really hard but you will have to be the one to decide when that is
since they cannot tell us, but I think you will know.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

[Karen M.]

David,

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. It's so painful to have
to decide when to let your loved ones go. Yvonne had some wonderful
advice on listing the things your cat loves and when she is no longer
able to do those things it's time. My thoughts will be with you.

Karen

David S. wrote:
> Can't sleep anyway.
>
> She wobbles. She wobbles when she stands, sits, or hunkers down. Her 3-1/2
> pound body is nothing more than fur-covered skin on bones. Every bone is
> visible. She can barely jump up on the couch anymore, and she prefers her
> own company to anyone else's. Laps, which used to be her favorite spot to
> sleep, have been empty for over a month.
>
> My sister is her vet. The cancerous tumor in her belly is the size of a
> baking potato and in danger of rupturing. "If it ruptures, you'll know
> immediately. She'll be on her side panting and won't be responsive to you
> at all. She'll be in pain, and you'll need to call me to come put her down
> as soon as possible. But it might not rupture. There's no way to know for
> sure," she added.
>
> But she is still eating and has a keen interest in food. I manage to keep
> her hydrated with tuna water and IV water, and she really looks forward to
> her soft meal after I have given her the prednisone. Her eyes are clear,
> and she still meows when she wants food.
>
> But all the food she eats goes to feed that goddamn disease. With every
> bite it grows bigger and increases the likelihood that she'll die in agony.
> But it might not rupture, and she may just stop eating at some point and
> tell us that she's ready. But ... but ... but ... so many buts. The buts
> bounce back and forth like a tennis ball in an unfriendly match between two
> players, both of whom you'd like to see lose. Eating and death never liked
> each other anyway, but neither player gets a winning edge on cancer's court.
>
> The tumor says hello every day and every night. It says hello in so many,
> many ways. It greets you at the door with a sour, noxious, pervasive smell
> that requires immediate attention. It smiles when you see the brown and red
> stains left on the wall and floor and the couch and the bed and the rug. It
> winks at the litterbox. Oh, it loves the litterbox. The litterbox is where
> the cries of a distressed, 16 year-old kitten can be heard, as she tries
> against all hope to keep her dignity from leaping onto the walls and floor.
>
> But she still eats. She still walks up every time the refrigerator door
> opens, and her eyes open wide to greet it. How much of her is still here,
> and how long can I continue to torture the part that wants to die? How can
> I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
> decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
> Eating and death.
>
> Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
> over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
> suffering! I wonder if Taffy died long ago, and the only thing that eats
> our cat food is the host for a demon. How can I be so cold? What on earth
> shall I do?
>
> I want some more decaf tea. Can't sleep anyway.
>
>

[Karen M.]

David,

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. It's so painful to have
to decide when to let your loved ones go. Yvonne had some wonderful
advice on listing the things your cat loves and when she is no longer
able to do those things it's time. My thoughts will be with you.

Karen

David S. wrote:
> Can't sleep anyway.
>
> She wobbles. She wobbles when she stands, sits, or hunkers down. Her 3-1/2
> pound body is nothing more than fur-covered skin on bones. Every bone is
> visible. She can barely jump up on the couch anymore, and she prefers her
> own company to anyone else's. Laps, which used to be her favorite spot to
> sleep, have been empty for over a month.
>
> My sister is her vet. The cancerous tumor in her belly is the size of a
> baking potato and in danger of rupturing. "If it ruptures, you'll know
> immediately. She'll be on her side panting and won't be responsive to you
> at all. She'll be in pain, and you'll need to call me to come put her down
> as soon as possible. But it might not rupture. There's no way to know for
> sure," she added.
>
> But she is still eating and has a keen interest in food. I manage to keep
> her hydrated with tuna water and IV water, and she really looks forward to
> her soft meal after I have given her the prednisone. Her eyes are clear,
> and she still meows when she wants food.
>
> But all the food she eats goes to feed that goddamn disease. With every
> bite it grows bigger and increases the likelihood that she'll die in agony.
> But it might not rupture, and she may just stop eating at some point and
> tell us that she's ready. But ... but ... but ... so many buts. The buts
> bounce back and forth like a tennis ball in an unfriendly match between two
> players, both of whom you'd like to see lose. Eating and death never liked
> each other anyway, but neither player gets a winning edge on cancer's court.
>
> The tumor says hello every day and every night. It says hello in so many,
> many ways. It greets you at the door with a sour, noxious, pervasive smell
> that requires immediate attention. It smiles when you see the brown and red
> stains left on the wall and floor and the couch and the bed and the rug. It
> winks at the litterbox. Oh, it loves the litterbox. The litterbox is where
> the cries of a distressed, 16 year-old kitten can be heard, as she tries
> against all hope to keep her dignity from leaping onto the walls and floor.
>
> But she still eats. She still walks up every time the refrigerator door
> opens, and her eyes open wide to greet it. How much of her is still here,
> and how long can I continue to torture the part that wants to die? How can
> I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
> decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
> Eating and death.
>
> Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
> over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
> suffering! I wonder if Taffy died long ago, and the only thing that eats
> our cat food is the host for a demon. How can I be so cold? What on earth
> shall I do?
>
> I want some more decaf tea. Can't sleep anyway.
>
>

[Ginger-lyn Summer]

I am so sorry for this sad situation you find yourself in. It is so
difficult to answer your question, and in the end, you are the only
person who can decide when is the time. You are the one who knows
your cat the best.

All I can suggest is look into her eyes. Ask her what she wants you
to do. And listen. With any luck, she will tell you.

Blessings to you,

Ginger-lyn

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:17:57 GMT, "David S."
> wrote:

>Can't sleep anyway.
>
>She wobbles. She wobbles when she stands, sits, or hunkers down. Her 3-1/2
>pound body is nothing more than fur-covered skin on bones. Every bone is
>visible. She can barely jump up on the couch anymore, and she prefers her
>own company to anyone else's. Laps, which used to be her favorite spot to
>sleep, have been empty for over a month.
>
>My sister is her vet. The cancerous tumor in her belly is the size of a
>baking potato and in danger of rupturing. "If it ruptures, you'll know
>immediately. She'll be on her side panting and won't be responsive to you
>at all. She'll be in pain, and you'll need to call me to come put her down
>as soon as possible. But it might not rupture. There's no way to know for
>sure," she added.
>
>But she is still eating and has a keen interest in food. I manage to keep
>her hydrated with tuna water and IV water, and she really looks forward to
>her soft meal after I have given her the prednisone. Her eyes are clear,
>and she still meows when she wants food.
>
>But all the food she eats goes to feed that goddamn disease. With every
>bite it grows bigger and increases the likelihood that she'll die in agony.
>But it might not rupture, and she may just stop eating at some point and
>tell us that she's ready. But ... but ... but ... so many buts. The buts
>bounce back and forth like a tennis ball in an unfriendly match between two
>players, both of whom you'd like to see lose. Eating and death never liked
>each other anyway, but neither player gets a winning edge on cancer's court.
>
>The tumor says hello every day and every night. It says hello in so many,
>many ways. It greets you at the door with a sour, noxious, pervasive smell
>that requires immediate attention. It smiles when you see the brown and red
>stains left on the wall and floor and the couch and the bed and the rug. It
>winks at the litterbox. Oh, it loves the litterbox. The litterbox is where
>the cries of a distressed, 16 year-old kitten can be heard, as she tries
>against all hope to keep her dignity from leaping onto the walls and floor.
>
>But she still eats. She still walks up every time the refrigerator door
>opens, and her eyes open wide to greet it. How much of her is still here,
>and how long can I continue to torture the part that wants to die? How can
>I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
>decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
>Eating and death.
>
>Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
>over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
>suffering! I wonder if Taffy died long ago, and the only thing that eats
>our cat food is the host for a demon. How can I be so cold? What on earth
>shall I do?
>
>I want some more decaf tea. Can't sleep anyway.
>
>

[Ginger-lyn Summer]

I am so sorry for this sad situation you find yourself in. It is so
difficult to answer your question, and in the end, you are the only
person who can decide when is the time. You are the one who knows
your cat the best.

All I can suggest is look into her eyes. Ask her what she wants you
to do. And listen. With any luck, she will tell you.

Blessings to you,

Ginger-lyn

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:17:57 GMT, "David S."
> wrote:

>Can't sleep anyway.
>
>She wobbles. She wobbles when she stands, sits, or hunkers down. Her 3-1/2
>pound body is nothing more than fur-covered skin on bones. Every bone is
>visible. She can barely jump up on the couch anymore, and she prefers her
>own company to anyone else's. Laps, which used to be her favorite spot to
>sleep, have been empty for over a month.
>
>My sister is her vet. The cancerous tumor in her belly is the size of a
>baking potato and in danger of rupturing. "If it ruptures, you'll know
>immediately. She'll be on her side panting and won't be responsive to you
>at all. She'll be in pain, and you'll need to call me to come put her down
>as soon as possible. But it might not rupture. There's no way to know for
>sure," she added.
>
>But she is still eating and has a keen interest in food. I manage to keep
>her hydrated with tuna water and IV water, and she really looks forward to
>her soft meal after I have given her the prednisone. Her eyes are clear,
>and she still meows when she wants food.
>
>But all the food she eats goes to feed that goddamn disease. With every
>bite it grows bigger and increases the likelihood that she'll die in agony.
>But it might not rupture, and she may just stop eating at some point and
>tell us that she's ready. But ... but ... but ... so many buts. The buts
>bounce back and forth like a tennis ball in an unfriendly match between two
>players, both of whom you'd like to see lose. Eating and death never liked
>each other anyway, but neither player gets a winning edge on cancer's court.
>
>The tumor says hello every day and every night. It says hello in so many,
>many ways. It greets you at the door with a sour, noxious, pervasive smell
>that requires immediate attention. It smiles when you see the brown and red
>stains left on the wall and floor and the couch and the bed and the rug. It
>winks at the litterbox. Oh, it loves the litterbox. The litterbox is where
>the cries of a distressed, 16 year-old kitten can be heard, as she tries
>against all hope to keep her dignity from leaping onto the walls and floor.
>
>But she still eats. She still walks up every time the refrigerator door
>opens, and her eyes open wide to greet it. How much of her is still here,
>and how long can I continue to torture the part that wants to die? How can
>I continue this abuse of indecision? Strange, isn't it, how indecision is a
>decision in itself to continue to allow the best and the worst to coexist?
>Eating and death.
>
>Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
>over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
>suffering! I wonder if Taffy died long ago, and the only thing that eats
>our cat food is the host for a demon. How can I be so cold? What on earth
>shall I do?
>
>I want some more decaf tea. Can't sleep anyway.
>
>

[MacCandace]

David,

I'm very sorry about your poor kitty. Almost exactly 4 years ago, I had my 14
year old cat, Emily, put to sleep for lymphoma. In agonizing over this
decision of *when* for several weeks before this, one of my best friends, who
has had multiple dogs all throughout her life and who has faced this decision
many times herself, said to me, "We always wait too long." To me, waiting too
long seemed worse than doing it a little bit too soon. As I said, that was
just me. So the day we put Emily to sleep was the day when she didn't come out
from under the bed when we got home from work and when she didn't want to be
let out in our back yard supervised which was just about her favorite thing to
do next to eating. She had already ceased being interested in food and would
just take a couple of licks and she already was hiding quite a bit but this day
was different. Who knows, maybe she was having a "bad" day and would have felt
better the next day but I knew her days were numbered, I knew she had a
terminal illness, and I just didn't want to wait too long. To me, possibly
doing it a little too early was preferable to waiting too long. I certainly
understand that that might not be how everyone thinks, though. My thoughts are
with you and your cat during this difficult time.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[MacCandace]

David,

I'm very sorry about your poor kitty. Almost exactly 4 years ago, I had my 14
year old cat, Emily, put to sleep for lymphoma. In agonizing over this
decision of *when* for several weeks before this, one of my best friends, who
has had multiple dogs all throughout her life and who has faced this decision
many times herself, said to me, "We always wait too long." To me, waiting too
long seemed worse than doing it a little bit too soon. As I said, that was
just me. So the day we put Emily to sleep was the day when she didn't come out
from under the bed when we got home from work and when she didn't want to be
let out in our back yard supervised which was just about her favorite thing to
do next to eating. She had already ceased being interested in food and would
just take a couple of licks and she already was hiding quite a bit but this day
was different. Who knows, maybe she was having a "bad" day and would have felt
better the next day but I knew her days were numbered, I knew she had a
terminal illness, and I just didn't want to wait too long. To me, possibly
doing it a little too early was preferable to waiting too long. I certainly
understand that that might not be how everyone thinks, though. My thoughts are
with you and your cat during this difficult time.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[MacCandace]

<< From An Old Cat
- Darleen Daniels
Cheyenne, Wyoming >>

Wow, how beautiful. I've never seen that before.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[MacCandace]

<< From An Old Cat
- Darleen Daniels
Cheyenne, Wyoming >>

Wow, how beautiful. I've never seen that before.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[Mary]

>Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
>over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
>suffering!

If this were my cat, I would call your sister and set an appt to administer the
shot at home. I would make the best meal in the world for your little kitty,
even things that are bad for her like tuna in oil and fancy feast. I'd let her
eat, I'd pet her all she likes then when she has her after meal nap, I'd give
her the shot to let her die mercifcully with dignity. If you let her get worse,
she and you will feel bad and have horrible last memories. If I'd known about
my cat's horrible cancer, I would have made him a great meal a few days before
he showed any signs. I would have played with him all he wanted, pet him...then
let him go to sleep while he was feeling good and happy. My prayers are with
you both.

[Mary]

>Who am I to play God? But who am I not to provide the compassion of death
>over suffering? But there might not be any suffering. But there already is
>suffering!

If this were my cat, I would call your sister and set an appt to administer the
shot at home. I would make the best meal in the world for your little kitty,
even things that are bad for her like tuna in oil and fancy feast. I'd let her
eat, I'd pet her all she likes then when she has her after meal nap, I'd give
her the shot to let her die mercifcully with dignity. If you let her get worse,
she and you will feel bad and have horrible last memories. If I'd known about
my cat's horrible cancer, I would have made him a great meal a few days before
he showed any signs. I would have played with him all he wanted, pet him...then
let him go to sleep while he was feeling good and happy. My prayers are with
you both.

[Iain & Deb]

In article >,
says...
>
> If this were my cat, I would call your sister and set an appt to administer the
> shot at home. I would make the best meal in the world for your little kitty,
> even things that are bad for her like tuna in oil and fancy feast. I'd let her
> eat, I'd pet her all she likes then when she has her after meal nap, I'd give
> her the shot to let her die mercifcully with dignity. If you let her get worse,
> she and you will feel bad and have horrible last memories. If I'd known about
> my cat's horrible cancer, I would have made him a great meal a few days before
> he showed any signs. I would have played with him all he wanted, pet him...then
> let him go to sleep while he was feeling good and happy. My prayers are with
> you both.
>

I agree totally; hard as it is to make that final decision, it's
comforting later to remember that you did all you could to make their
last moments comfortable. We had to PTS our 13-year old dog 1 1/2 weeks
ago, and for his last days he had all his favorite stuff to eat and lots
of attention. Although my husband did take him to the vet's office for
the end, this wasn't an issue, as he loved the car and actually enjoyed
going to the vet.

My thoughts are with you, David.

Deb

[Iain & Deb]

In article >,
says...
>
> If this were my cat, I would call your sister and set an appt to administer the
> shot at home. I would make the best meal in the world for your little kitty,
> even things that are bad for her like tuna in oil and fancy feast. I'd let her
> eat, I'd pet her all she likes then when she has her after meal nap, I'd give
> her the shot to let her die mercifcully with dignity. If you let her get worse,
> she and you will feel bad and have horrible last memories. If I'd known about
> my cat's horrible cancer, I would have made him a great meal a few days before
> he showed any signs. I would have played with him all he wanted, pet him...then
> let him go to sleep while he was feeling good and happy. My prayers are with
> you both.
>

I agree totally; hard as it is to make that final decision, it's
comforting later to remember that you did all you could to make their
last moments comfortable. We had to PTS our 13-year old dog 1 1/2 weeks
ago, and for his last days he had all his favorite stuff to eat and lots
of attention. Although my husband did take him to the vet's office for
the end, this wasn't an issue, as he loved the car and actually enjoyed
going to the vet.

My thoughts are with you, David.

Deb

[guynoir]

Learn from your cat. She is teaching you how to die.

Some day you’ll be a drooling vegetable in a nursing home, probably
alone and friendless except for the paid attendant who changes your diapers.

Or maybe you won’t be friendless. But maybe when you’ve reached your
dotage, the laws and medical ethics will have changed, and your friend
will be faced with the same decision regarding you that you now have
with your cat.

Walter M. Miller Jr. wrote an excellent argument covering your exact
situation in his book "A Canticle for Leibowitz". To briefly recap: One
of the characters had an injured, dying cat. He decided to put it out
of its misery, but the cat did not concur with his decision. He ended
up shooting his cat several times as it crawled away trying to escape
him. You can imagine the mental trauma, both for him and the cat, and
yet if he’d killed the cat more efficiently, he wouldn’t have had to
question his motivation in killing it. Whose suffering was he trying to
end?

Don’t kill your cat, let her suffer. She can handle it. You can handle
it too.

Fiat Voluntas Tua

David S. wrote:
> Can't sleep anyway.

[guynoir]

Learn from your cat. She is teaching you how to die.

Some day you’ll be a drooling vegetable in a nursing home, probably
alone and friendless except for the paid attendant who changes your diapers.

Or maybe you won’t be friendless. But maybe when you’ve reached your
dotage, the laws and medical ethics will have changed, and your friend
will be faced with the same decision regarding you that you now have
with your cat.

Walter M. Miller Jr. wrote an excellent argument covering your exact
situation in his book "A Canticle for Leibowitz". To briefly recap: One
of the characters had an injured, dying cat. He decided to put it out
of its misery, but the cat did not concur with his decision. He ended
up shooting his cat several times as it crawled away trying to escape
him. You can imagine the mental trauma, both for him and the cat, and
yet if he’d killed the cat more efficiently, he wouldn’t have had to
question his motivation in killing it. Whose suffering was he trying to
end?

Don’t kill your cat, let her suffer. She can handle it. You can handle
it too.

Fiat Voluntas Tua

David S. wrote:
> Can't sleep anyway.