Let cat outside or keep it in?

[tman]

Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.

Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since the
spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and prowling
around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and
pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.

But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants to
spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he would
just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now, he
has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat and
not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to bed, but
who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
ready.

About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next morning,
which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was also
injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
someone / something hit him.

While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we need to
decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we limit
his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and other
hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Thanks for any ideas,
Tman.

[MaryL]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now, he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

I would keep him inside. Cats adjust well, and indoor cats generally have a
much longer life span. However, you do have plenty of room to build an
outdoor pen. That might be a good compromise if you can make one with
plenty of space and some climbing areas, such as cat trees.

MaryL

[MaryL]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now, he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

I would keep him inside. Cats adjust well, and indoor cats generally have a
much longer life span. However, you do have plenty of room to build an
outdoor pen. That might be a good compromise if you can make one with
plenty of space and some climbing areas, such as cat trees.

MaryL

[MaryL]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now, he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

I would keep him inside. Cats adjust well, and indoor cats generally have a
much longer life span. However, you do have plenty of room to build an
outdoor pen. That might be a good compromise if you can make one with
plenty of space and some climbing areas, such as cat trees.

MaryL

[MacCandace]

<< And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Thanks for any ideas,
Tma >>

In the US, it is now pretty much considered that it is best to keep cats inside
or only allow them outside in a secure enclosure or on a harness and leash.
You already have learned one of the reasons why and you're lucky that it wasn't
worse. He could easily go into the woods and have a predator get him or a bad
human or a car since you say you think he crosses the road. Maybe you could
build him some sort of run with a top on it and a kitty door so he could go out
in his run whenever he wanted to commune with nature.

Now that you've had him inside for awhile, I personally think it's best that
you keep it that way. If he's sort of docile, you might be able to train him
to a harness and leash. Many cats will do it, especially if they know it's the
only way to get outside.

If he has a lot of windows and toys inside, he should adapt to the indoor life
again with time. I really wish I had a screened porch for my cats but I don't.
Someday. To me, that would be ideal. Do you have that or could you get one
built? If not that, try a run. I know some people who post here have done
that and some have pics of them on their websites so, hopefully, one of them
will answer you.


You can't get a cat to dependably return when you want them to.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[MacCandace]

<< And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Thanks for any ideas,
Tma >>

In the US, it is now pretty much considered that it is best to keep cats inside
or only allow them outside in a secure enclosure or on a harness and leash.
You already have learned one of the reasons why and you're lucky that it wasn't
worse. He could easily go into the woods and have a predator get him or a bad
human or a car since you say you think he crosses the road. Maybe you could
build him some sort of run with a top on it and a kitty door so he could go out
in his run whenever he wanted to commune with nature.

Now that you've had him inside for awhile, I personally think it's best that
you keep it that way. If he's sort of docile, you might be able to train him
to a harness and leash. Many cats will do it, especially if they know it's the
only way to get outside.

If he has a lot of windows and toys inside, he should adapt to the indoor life
again with time. I really wish I had a screened porch for my cats but I don't.
Someday. To me, that would be ideal. Do you have that or could you get one
built? If not that, try a run. I know some people who post here have done
that and some have pics of them on their websites so, hopefully, one of them
will answer you.


You can't get a cat to dependably return when you want them to.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[MacCandace]

<< And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Thanks for any ideas,
Tma >>

In the US, it is now pretty much considered that it is best to keep cats inside
or only allow them outside in a secure enclosure or on a harness and leash.
You already have learned one of the reasons why and you're lucky that it wasn't
worse. He could easily go into the woods and have a predator get him or a bad
human or a car since you say you think he crosses the road. Maybe you could
build him some sort of run with a top on it and a kitty door so he could go out
in his run whenever he wanted to commune with nature.

Now that you've had him inside for awhile, I personally think it's best that
you keep it that way. If he's sort of docile, you might be able to train him
to a harness and leash. Many cats will do it, especially if they know it's the
only way to get outside.

If he has a lot of windows and toys inside, he should adapt to the indoor life
again with time. I really wish I had a screened porch for my cats but I don't.
Someday. To me, that would be ideal. Do you have that or could you get one
built? If not that, try a run. I know some people who post here have done
that and some have pics of them on their websites so, hopefully, one of them
will answer you.


You can't get a cat to dependably return when you want them to.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

[Dtanyol]

I agree with the advice so far. A friend lost four (count 'em) cats to
predators; even after losing the first (to a coyote), she felt it wasn't "fair"
to the other cats to make them stay inside. Now she has no cats.

My own cat was a feral cat for the first year of his life; when I brought him
home at first he complained about having to stay indoors, but after a few
months he stopped complaining, and indeed seems quite happy and fit as an
indoor cat. He sits in the (screened-in) window when he wants to get his nature
fix. He's now 13; I suspect that if I'd given in and let him out, he'd be long
dead/lost/whatever.

Good luck with making your decision...but I hope you do decide to keep your cat
close to the house or indoors.

[Dtanyol]

I agree with the advice so far. A friend lost four (count 'em) cats to
predators; even after losing the first (to a coyote), she felt it wasn't "fair"
to the other cats to make them stay inside. Now she has no cats.

My own cat was a feral cat for the first year of his life; when I brought him
home at first he complained about having to stay indoors, but after a few
months he stopped complaining, and indeed seems quite happy and fit as an
indoor cat. He sits in the (screened-in) window when he wants to get his nature
fix. He's now 13; I suspect that if I'd given in and let him out, he'd be long
dead/lost/whatever.

Good luck with making your decision...but I hope you do decide to keep your cat
close to the house or indoors.

[Dtanyol]

I agree with the advice so far. A friend lost four (count 'em) cats to
predators; even after losing the first (to a coyote), she felt it wasn't "fair"
to the other cats to make them stay inside. Now she has no cats.

My own cat was a feral cat for the first year of his life; when I brought him
home at first he complained about having to stay indoors, but after a few
months he stopped complaining, and indeed seems quite happy and fit as an
indoor cat. He sits in the (screened-in) window when he wants to get his nature
fix. He's now 13; I suspect that if I'd given in and let him out, he'd be long
dead/lost/whatever.

Good luck with making your decision...but I hope you do decide to keep your cat
close to the house or indoors.

[Kuisse0002]

>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
>Thanks for any ideas,
>Tman.

1. I would definitely keep him indoors.Its way too dangerous outdoors.
2. If you or your family will be outside (eg doing gardening, etc) then I'd
also let him out but it would be better to have him on a leash or somewhat. -
one of those extended leashes. This is so that you can "control" his distance
from you, where he goes and importantly you can retrieve him when its time to
go back in.
3. Now that he loves the outdoors, be very careful that all exits to the
outside is secured and make sure family members are careful too.

[Kuisse0002]

>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
>Thanks for any ideas,
>Tman.

1. I would definitely keep him indoors.Its way too dangerous outdoors.
2. If you or your family will be outside (eg doing gardening, etc) then I'd
also let him out but it would be better to have him on a leash or somewhat. -
one of those extended leashes. This is so that you can "control" his distance
from you, where he goes and importantly you can retrieve him when its time to
go back in.
3. Now that he loves the outdoors, be very careful that all exits to the
outside is secured and make sure family members are careful too.

[Kuisse0002]

>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
>Thanks for any ideas,
>Tman.

1. I would definitely keep him indoors.Its way too dangerous outdoors.
2. If you or your family will be outside (eg doing gardening, etc) then I'd
also let him out but it would be better to have him on a leash or somewhat. -
one of those extended leashes. This is so that you can "control" his distance
from you, where he goes and importantly you can retrieve him when its time to
go back in.
3. Now that he loves the outdoors, be very careful that all exits to the
outside is secured and make sure family members are careful too.

[Sherry]

>>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Keep him indoors. One and a half acres isn't enough space to keep him out of
trouble, especially if the land surrounding yours contains neighbors and
traffic. Even in the most remote areas, I'd never let mine outdoors at night
because of predators. An enclosure would be great for him though.

Sherry

[Sherry]

>>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Keep him indoors. One and a half acres isn't enough space to keep him out of
trouble, especially if the land surrounding yours contains neighbors and
traffic. Even in the most remote areas, I'd never let mine outdoors at night
because of predators. An enclosure would be great for him though.

Sherry

[Sherry]

>>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to
>>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or
>>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).

Keep him indoors. One and a half acres isn't enough space to keep him out of
trouble, especially if the land surrounding yours contains neighbors and
traffic. Even in the most remote areas, I'd never let mine outdoors at night
because of predators. An enclosure would be great for him though.

Sherry

[Phil P.]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

Now that you own your own home with plenty of land, why not give him the
best of both worlds by building a protected, outdoor enclosure that he can
access anytime from indoors.

http://www.just4cats.com/
http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html
http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html


Phil

http://www.maxshouse.com/outdoor_risks.htm
http://www.maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm

[Phil P.]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

Now that you own your own home with plenty of land, why not give him the
best of both worlds by building a protected, outdoor enclosure that he can
access anytime from indoors.

http://www.just4cats.com/
http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html
http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html


Phil

http://www.maxshouse.com/outdoor_risks.htm
http://www.maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm

[Phil P.]

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

Now that you own your own home with plenty of land, why not give him the
best of both worlds by building a protected, outdoor enclosure that he can
access anytime from indoors.

http://www.just4cats.com/
http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html
http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html


Phil

http://www.maxshouse.com/outdoor_risks.htm
http://www.maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm

[Alison]

Hi ,
You can try not feeding him before you let him out in the morning .
In a higher density area he wouild probably travel less far but he
has a large area to patrol and no rivals. being in the UK I'm a great
believer in letting cats out but I would be worried in a situation
where he was out in the woods at night . However it would be very
distressing to shut a cat in all the time after he has grown used to
his freedom I think it would be best if you could fence of a part of
your land next or attached to your house for him .

www.friendlyfence.com

(Thanks to Cheryl for this link )

--
Alison

Rescues.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/

Links to animal information websites
http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life,
he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he
could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded
and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since
the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and
prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing
and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants
to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he
would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now,
he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat
and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to
bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next
morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was
also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we
need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we
limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and
other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is
time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night?
Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

[Alison]

Hi ,
You can try not feeding him before you let him out in the morning .
In a higher density area he wouild probably travel less far but he
has a large area to patrol and no rivals. being in the UK I'm a great
believer in letting cats out but I would be worried in a situation
where he was out in the woods at night . However it would be very
distressing to shut a cat in all the time after he has grown used to
his freedom I think it would be best if you could fence of a part of
your land next or attached to your house for him .

www.friendlyfence.com

(Thanks to Cheryl for this link )

--
Alison

Rescues.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/

Links to animal information websites
http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life,
he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he
could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded
and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since
the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and
prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing
and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants
to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he
would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now,
he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat
and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to
bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next
morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was
also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we
need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we
limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and
other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is
time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night?
Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

[Alison]

Hi ,
You can try not feeding him before you let him out in the morning .
In a higher density area he wouild probably travel less far but he
has a large area to patrol and no rivals. being in the UK I'm a great
believer in letting cats out but I would be worried in a situation
where he was out in the woods at night . However it would be very
distressing to shut a cat in all the time after he has grown used to
his freedom I think it would be best if you could fence of a part of
your land next or attached to your house for him .

www.friendlyfence.com

(Thanks to Cheryl for this link )

--
Alison

Rescues.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/

Links to animal information websites
http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/

"tman" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life,
he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he
could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded
and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?
>
> Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since
the
> spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and
prowling
> around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing
and
> pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and
> happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day.
>
> But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants
to
> spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he
would
> just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now,
he
> has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and
> perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat
and
> not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to
bed, but
> who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and
> ready.
>
> About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next
morning,
> which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was
also
> injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or
> someone / something hit him.
>
> While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we
need to
> decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we
limit
> his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and
other
> hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is
time to
> come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night?
Or
> should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy).
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Tman.

[Phar Kemal]

You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
prison.

It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
buildings and have never seen the outside world.

Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
quality of life better in captivity?

Will your cat be happy locked in the house?

[Phar Kemal]

You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
prison.

It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
buildings and have never seen the outside world.

Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
quality of life better in captivity?

Will your cat be happy locked in the house?

[Phar Kemal]

You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
prison.

It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
buildings and have never seen the outside world.

Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
quality of life better in captivity?

Will your cat be happy locked in the house?

[kaeli]

In article >,
enlightened us with...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.
>
> It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> buildings and have never seen the outside world.
>
> Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
> jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
> be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
> protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
> quality of life better in captivity?
>
> Will your cat be happy locked in the house?
>


A lot happier than he will be getting chased by dogs, fighting with
other cats, eating poisonous things left by careless people, getting hit
by a car, getting hurt by a cruel person, or getting an infectious
disease from another cat.
He'll live a lot longer, be healthier, and get injured less.

It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to keep
your dog there. If you feel a cat must go outside, keep it in your yard
(garden), on your property. You cat belongs on your neighbor's lawn as
much as your dog or cow does - which is to say, it doesn't.

A cat is a domestic animal. A tiger is not. You cannot compare an animal
that has been a pet for over 2000 years to a wild species.

A cat is not a child. What is cruel to one is not cruel to another. You
don't make your kid eat out of a bowl on the floor, do you?

It is cruel to keep a child (toddler) locked in the house - it is a
felony to let it wander about unsupervised to be hurt by the myriad
dangers that abound. Neither pet nor young child should be off their
property unsupervised. Period.

As to happiness, my kids would be a lot happier eating ice cream and
McDonald's every day, staying up until midnight, and playing video games
instead of going to school. It would be cruel and neglectful of me to
let them. My cat might be happier wandering outside unattended, but it
would be just as cruel and neglectful for me to let them.


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
it leaves streaks.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

[kaeli]

In article >,
enlightened us with...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.
>
> It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> buildings and have never seen the outside world.
>
> Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
> jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
> be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
> protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
> quality of life better in captivity?
>
> Will your cat be happy locked in the house?
>


A lot happier than he will be getting chased by dogs, fighting with
other cats, eating poisonous things left by careless people, getting hit
by a car, getting hurt by a cruel person, or getting an infectious
disease from another cat.
He'll live a lot longer, be healthier, and get injured less.

It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to keep
your dog there. If you feel a cat must go outside, keep it in your yard
(garden), on your property. You cat belongs on your neighbor's lawn as
much as your dog or cow does - which is to say, it doesn't.

A cat is a domestic animal. A tiger is not. You cannot compare an animal
that has been a pet for over 2000 years to a wild species.

A cat is not a child. What is cruel to one is not cruel to another. You
don't make your kid eat out of a bowl on the floor, do you?

It is cruel to keep a child (toddler) locked in the house - it is a
felony to let it wander about unsupervised to be hurt by the myriad
dangers that abound. Neither pet nor young child should be off their
property unsupervised. Period.

As to happiness, my kids would be a lot happier eating ice cream and
McDonald's every day, staying up until midnight, and playing video games
instead of going to school. It would be cruel and neglectful of me to
let them. My cat might be happier wandering outside unattended, but it
would be just as cruel and neglectful for me to let them.


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
it leaves streaks.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

[kaeli]

In article >,
enlightened us with...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.
>
> It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> buildings and have never seen the outside world.
>
> Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the
> jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to
> be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are
> protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall
> quality of life better in captivity?
>
> Will your cat be happy locked in the house?
>


A lot happier than he will be getting chased by dogs, fighting with
other cats, eating poisonous things left by careless people, getting hit
by a car, getting hurt by a cruel person, or getting an infectious
disease from another cat.
He'll live a lot longer, be healthier, and get injured less.

It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to keep
your dog there. If you feel a cat must go outside, keep it in your yard
(garden), on your property. You cat belongs on your neighbor's lawn as
much as your dog or cow does - which is to say, it doesn't.

A cat is a domestic animal. A tiger is not. You cannot compare an animal
that has been a pet for over 2000 years to a wild species.

A cat is not a child. What is cruel to one is not cruel to another. You
don't make your kid eat out of a bowl on the floor, do you?

It is cruel to keep a child (toddler) locked in the house - it is a
felony to let it wander about unsupervised to be hurt by the myriad
dangers that abound. Neither pet nor young child should be off their
property unsupervised. Period.

As to happiness, my kids would be a lot happier eating ice cream and
McDonald's every day, staying up until midnight, and playing video games
instead of going to school. It would be cruel and neglectful of me to
let them. My cat might be happier wandering outside unattended, but it
would be just as cruel and neglectful for me to let them.


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
it leaves streaks.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

[dgk]

On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal > wrote:

>You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
>never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
>children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
>prison.
>

If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
shouldn't be offering advice.

[dgk]

On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal > wrote:

>You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
>never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
>children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
>prison.
>

If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
shouldn't be offering advice.

[dgk]

On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal > wrote:

>You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
>never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your
>children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
>prison.
>

If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
shouldn't be offering advice.

[Luvskats00]

Phar Kemal muses

>...Many tigers have been born and >raised in zoos and have never >seen the
jungle or hunted prey....etc.

Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years. Tigers have never been
considered as house pets and have a totally different ideology in every way
possible. Your comparison doesn't even begin to make sense. Cats do not posess
reading ability and have no way to tell the difference between a "walk" and
"don't walk" sign. Cats do not know the difference between a red or green
traffic light nor can they access traffic patterns. Outside cats are hit/run
over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to question the
wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink toxic
substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that leak out of
cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape from the jaws
of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals that bite.
As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on Animal
Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was allowed to go
outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from internal
bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or autopost that
could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done is to chant
the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a newsgroup to insist
cats belong outside.

[Luvskats00]

Phar Kemal muses

>...Many tigers have been born and >raised in zoos and have never >seen the
jungle or hunted prey....etc.

Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years. Tigers have never been
considered as house pets and have a totally different ideology in every way
possible. Your comparison doesn't even begin to make sense. Cats do not posess
reading ability and have no way to tell the difference between a "walk" and
"don't walk" sign. Cats do not know the difference between a red or green
traffic light nor can they access traffic patterns. Outside cats are hit/run
over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to question the
wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink toxic
substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that leak out of
cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape from the jaws
of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals that bite.
As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on Animal
Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was allowed to go
outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from internal
bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or autopost that
could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done is to chant
the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a newsgroup to insist
cats belong outside.

[Luvskats00]

Phar Kemal muses

>...Many tigers have been born and >raised in zoos and have never >seen the
jungle or hunted prey....etc.

Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years. Tigers have never been
considered as house pets and have a totally different ideology in every way
possible. Your comparison doesn't even begin to make sense. Cats do not posess
reading ability and have no way to tell the difference between a "walk" and
"don't walk" sign. Cats do not know the difference between a red or green
traffic light nor can they access traffic patterns. Outside cats are hit/run
over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to question the
wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink toxic
substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that leak out of
cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape from the jaws
of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals that bite.
As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on Animal
Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was allowed to go
outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from internal
bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or autopost that
could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done is to chant
the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a newsgroup to insist
cats belong outside.

[Barb 1]

My cats are indoor cats. I let them out on my deck and they seem to be
content with that parameter, the new little kitten, too.

I had an outside cat once who adopted us. He stayed with us for more than a
year, I guess, but he would cry like his heart was broken if we didn't let
him out. He was a tuxedo and we named him Henry. If I called him he'd come
running. Then one day he didn't come back, ever again. I searched all over
for him. I ended up being the one that was heartbroken. I can't put myself
through such pain again.

Several years later I met a former neighbor for coffee. She had lived about
6 blocks from me in my development. She had found a tuxedo that sounded
like my Henry but I told her my Henry had a yellow collar with a zig zag
edge. The cat she found had a yellow collar but a plain edge. I went over
to see him anyway and the collar he was wearing actually had a barely
visible zig zag edge! Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat nut like
me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in the
house but he didn't want it.

Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he was.

Barb
I can only please one person a day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

[Barb 1]

My cats are indoor cats. I let them out on my deck and they seem to be
content with that parameter, the new little kitten, too.

I had an outside cat once who adopted us. He stayed with us for more than a
year, I guess, but he would cry like his heart was broken if we didn't let
him out. He was a tuxedo and we named him Henry. If I called him he'd come
running. Then one day he didn't come back, ever again. I searched all over
for him. I ended up being the one that was heartbroken. I can't put myself
through such pain again.

Several years later I met a former neighbor for coffee. She had lived about
6 blocks from me in my development. She had found a tuxedo that sounded
like my Henry but I told her my Henry had a yellow collar with a zig zag
edge. The cat she found had a yellow collar but a plain edge. I went over
to see him anyway and the collar he was wearing actually had a barely
visible zig zag edge! Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat nut like
me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in the
house but he didn't want it.

Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he was.

Barb
I can only please one person a day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

[Barb 1]

My cats are indoor cats. I let them out on my deck and they seem to be
content with that parameter, the new little kitten, too.

I had an outside cat once who adopted us. He stayed with us for more than a
year, I guess, but he would cry like his heart was broken if we didn't let
him out. He was a tuxedo and we named him Henry. If I called him he'd come
running. Then one day he didn't come back, ever again. I searched all over
for him. I ended up being the one that was heartbroken. I can't put myself
through such pain again.

Several years later I met a former neighbor for coffee. She had lived about
6 blocks from me in my development. She had found a tuxedo that sounded
like my Henry but I told her my Henry had a yellow collar with a zig zag
edge. The cat she found had a yellow collar but a plain edge. I went over
to see him anyway and the collar he was wearing actually had a barely
visible zig zag edge! Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat nut like
me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in the
house but he didn't want it.

Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he was.

Barb
I can only please one person a day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

[Sherry]

>It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
>way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
>prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
>various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
>buildings and have never seen the

(snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very low-risk
area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very adaptable
their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.

Sherry

[Sherry]

>It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
>way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
>prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
>various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
>buildings and have never seen the

(snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very low-risk
area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very adaptable
their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.

Sherry

[Sherry]

>It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
>way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
>prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
>various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
>buildings and have never seen the

(snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very low-risk
area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very adaptable
their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.

Sherry

[Mr. Nangla]

Yes, well said :)

There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
minimise the violence as well LOL.

I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
go and draw these out!

Sonny

"Sherry " > wrote in message
...
> >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> >buildings and have never seen the
>
> (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
low-risk
> area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
> neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
adaptable
> their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
>
> Sherry

[Mr. Nangla]

Yes, well said :)

There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
minimise the violence as well LOL.

I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
go and draw these out!

Sonny

"Sherry " > wrote in message
...
> >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> >buildings and have never seen the
>
> (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
low-risk
> area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
> neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
adaptable
> their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
>
> Sherry

[Mr. Nangla]

Yes, well said :)

There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
minimise the violence as well LOL.

I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
go and draw these out!

Sonny

"Sherry " > wrote in message
...
> >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> >buildings and have never seen the
>
> (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
low-risk
> area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no
> neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
adaptable
> their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
>
> Sherry

[Mr. Nangla]

here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'

http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
:-)

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, well said :)
>
> There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
> great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
> minimise the violence as well LOL.
>
> I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
> interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be
nice
> if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
> gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
> term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
> go and draw these out!
>
> Sonny
>
> "Sherry " > wrote in message
> ...
> > >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> > >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> > >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> > >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> > >buildings and have never seen the
> >
> > (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> > I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
> low-risk
> > area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic,
no
> > neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
> adaptable
> > their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
> >
> > Sherry
>
>

[Mr. Nangla]

here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'

http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
:-)

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, well said :)
>
> There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
> great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
> minimise the violence as well LOL.
>
> I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
> interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be
nice
> if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
> gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
> term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
> go and draw these out!
>
> Sonny
>
> "Sherry " > wrote in message
> ...
> > >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> > >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> > >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> > >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> > >buildings and have never seen the
> >
> > (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> > I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
> low-risk
> > area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic,
no
> > neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
> adaptable
> > their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
> >
> > Sherry
>
>

[Mr. Nangla]

here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'

http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
:-)

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, well said :)
>
> There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be
> great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to
> minimise the violence as well LOL.
>
> I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
> interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be
nice
> if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
> gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
> term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
> go and draw these out!
>
> Sonny
>
> "Sherry " > wrote in message
> ...
> > >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the
> > >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to
> > >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under
> > >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment
> > >buildings and have never seen the
> >
> > (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue)
> > I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very
> low-risk
> > area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic,
no
> > neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very
> adaptable
> > their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy.
> >
> > Sherry
>
>

[Alison]

"Barb 1" > wrote in message
...
>>
Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
nut like
> me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
the
> house but he didn't want it.
>
> Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
was.
>
> Barb

Hi Barb ,
I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
Alison

[Alison]

"Barb 1" > wrote in message
...
>>
Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
nut like
> me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
the
> house but he didn't want it.
>
> Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
was.
>
> Barb

Hi Barb ,
I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
Alison

[Alison]

"Barb 1" > wrote in message
...
>>
Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
nut like
> me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
the
> house but he didn't want it.
>
> Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
was.
>
> Barb

Hi Barb ,
I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
Alison

[Alison]

"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
>>
> It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to
keep
> your dog there.

But dogs get taken for proper walks . Also, bear in mind that many
people live in condos and don't have yards or sometimes people can't
/won't fence their yards so the cat is restricted to a very limited
area .
The problem is that there is this fanaticism to pressurise and even
force people to keep cats in and the owners don't have the knowledge
to keep their cats happy . One young man didn't even know cats like to
climb , he also asked about declawing becuase the cat scratched the
furniture. He didn't even have a scratching post ! Imagine how often
that scenrio is played all over Northern America.
You might like to think how many cats are abandoned in the streets or
dumped at shelters because of "behaviour problems " which is usually
normal cat behaviour . How many of these end up dead?
I don't believe that every cat should be kept in and every cat should
go out but every owner should weigh up the pros and cons and do the
best they can to make their cat happy.

Alison



>
> -------------------------------------------------
> ~kaeli~
> Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
> at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
> it leaves streaks.
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
> -------------------------------------------------

[Alison]

"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
>>
> It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to
keep
> your dog there.

But dogs get taken for proper walks . Also, bear in mind that many
people live in condos and don't have yards or sometimes people can't
/won't fence their yards so the cat is restricted to a very limited
area .
The problem is that there is this fanaticism to pressurise and even
force people to keep cats in and the owners don't have the knowledge
to keep their cats happy . One young man didn't even know cats like to
climb , he also asked about declawing becuase the cat scratched the
furniture. He didn't even have a scratching post ! Imagine how often
that scenrio is played all over Northern America.
You might like to think how many cats are abandoned in the streets or
dumped at shelters because of "behaviour problems " which is usually
normal cat behaviour . How many of these end up dead?
I don't believe that every cat should be kept in and every cat should
go out but every owner should weigh up the pros and cons and do the
best they can to make their cat happy.

Alison



>
> -------------------------------------------------
> ~kaeli~
> Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
> at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
> it leaves streaks.
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
> -------------------------------------------------

[Alison]

"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
>>
> It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to
keep
> your dog there.

But dogs get taken for proper walks . Also, bear in mind that many
people live in condos and don't have yards or sometimes people can't
/won't fence their yards so the cat is restricted to a very limited
area .
The problem is that there is this fanaticism to pressurise and even
force people to keep cats in and the owners don't have the knowledge
to keep their cats happy . One young man didn't even know cats like to
climb , he also asked about declawing becuase the cat scratched the
furniture. He didn't even have a scratching post ! Imagine how often
that scenrio is played all over Northern America.
You might like to think how many cats are abandoned in the streets or
dumped at shelters because of "behaviour problems " which is usually
normal cat behaviour . How many of these end up dead?
I don't believe that every cat should be kept in and every cat should
go out but every owner should weigh up the pros and cons and do the
best they can to make their cat happy.

Alison



>
> -------------------------------------------------
> ~kaeli~
> Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare
> at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen,
> it leaves streaks.
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
> -------------------------------------------------

[Alison]

I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but if
it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad feral and
stray cat problem?
Alison

"Luvskats00" > wrote in message
...
> . Outside cats are hit/run
> over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to
question the
> wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink
toxic
> substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that
leak out of
> cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape
from the jaws
> of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals
that bite.
> As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on
Animal
> Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was
allowed to go
> outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from
internal
> bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or
autopost that
> could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done
is to chant
> the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a
newsgroup to insist
> cats belong outside.
>

[Alison]

I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but if
it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad feral and
stray cat problem?
Alison

"Luvskats00" > wrote in message
...
> . Outside cats are hit/run
> over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to
question the
> wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink
toxic
> substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that
leak out of
> cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape
from the jaws
> of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals
that bite.
> As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on
Animal
> Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was
allowed to go
> outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from
internal
> bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or
autopost that
> could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done
is to chant
> the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a
newsgroup to insist
> cats belong outside.
>

[Alison]

I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but if
it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad feral and
stray cat problem?
Alison

"Luvskats00" > wrote in message
...
> . Outside cats are hit/run
> over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to
question the
> wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink
toxic
> substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that
leak out of
> cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape
from the jaws
> of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals
that bite.
> As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on
Animal
> Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was
allowed to go
> outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from
internal
> bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or
autopost that
> could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done
is to chant
> the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a
newsgroup to insist
> cats belong outside.
>

[Rona Yuthasastrakosol]

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> :-)
>

What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly grew
into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!

BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar, especially
with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch or
something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.

rona

[Rona Yuthasastrakosol]

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> :-)
>

What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly grew
into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!

BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar, especially
with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch or
something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.

rona

[Rona Yuthasastrakosol]

"Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
...
> here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> :-)
>

What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly grew
into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!

BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar, especially
with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch or
something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.

rona

[Cheryl]

In ,
Alison > composed with style:
> I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but
> if it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad
> feral and stray cat problem?
> Alison
>
Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house hoping
that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".

[Cheryl]

In ,
Alison > composed with style:
> I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but
> if it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad
> feral and stray cat problem?
> Alison
>
Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house hoping
that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".

[Cheryl]

In ,
Alison > composed with style:
> I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but
> if it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad
> feral and stray cat problem?
> Alison
>
Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house hoping
that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".

[PawsForThought]

>From: "Mr. Nangla"

>
>here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
>http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
>:-)

Bee is lovely :) She has very beautiful markings.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

[PawsForThought]

>From: "Mr. Nangla"

>
>here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
>http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
>:-)

Bee is lovely :) She has very beautiful markings.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

[PawsForThought]

>From: "Mr. Nangla"

>
>here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden'
>
>http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
>:-)

Bee is lovely :) She has very beautiful markings.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

[Cheryl]

In hlink.net,
Diane L. Schirf > composed with style:
> In article >,
> dgk > wrote:
>
>> On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and
>>> predators by never letting him out of the house. You could do the
>>> same with your children, but you would be charged with extreme
>>> cruelty and be sent to prison.
>>>
>>
>> If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
>> shouldn't be offering advice.
>
> It's called anthropomorphism. It can be a dangerous thing.

There are a lot of those here in these groups. Sad.

[Cheryl]

In hlink.net,
Diane L. Schirf > composed with style:
> In article >,
> dgk > wrote:
>
>> On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and
>>> predators by never letting him out of the house. You could do the
>>> same with your children, but you would be charged with extreme
>>> cruelty and be sent to prison.
>>>
>>
>> If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
>> shouldn't be offering advice.
>
> It's called anthropomorphism. It can be a dangerous thing.

There are a lot of those here in these groups. Sad.

[Cheryl]

In hlink.net,
Diane L. Schirf > composed with style:
> In article >,
> dgk > wrote:
>
>> On 15 Sep 2003 12:11:05 -0500, Phar Kemal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and
>>> predators by never letting him out of the house. You could do the
>>> same with your children, but you would be charged with extreme
>>> cruelty and be sent to prison.
>>>
>>
>> If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you
>> shouldn't be offering advice.
>
> It's called anthropomorphism. It can be a dangerous thing.

There are a lot of those here in these groups. Sad.

[Sherry]

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
>Sonny
>
I think you're limited only by your imagination! Go for it! (And don't forget
to post the pictures)
Sherry

[Sherry]

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
>Sonny
>
I think you're limited only by your imagination! Go for it! (And don't forget
to post the pictures)
Sherry

[Sherry]

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
>Sonny
>
I think you're limited only by your imagination! Go for it! (And don't forget
to post the pictures)
Sherry

[Mr. Nangla]

Hey,

When you say a break-away collar do you mean that part of the collar is made
form is elastic? The later pictures was taken about July/Augest and she's
was about 1.

sonny :)

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
> ...
> > here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat
garden'
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> > :-)
> >
>
> What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly
grew
> into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!
>
> BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar,
especially
> with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
> collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch
or
> something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.
>
> rona
>
>

[Mr. Nangla]

Hey,

When you say a break-away collar do you mean that part of the collar is made
form is elastic? The later pictures was taken about July/Augest and she's
was about 1.

sonny :)

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
> ...
> > here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat
garden'
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> > :-)
> >
>
> What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly
grew
> into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!
>
> BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar,
especially
> with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
> collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch
or
> something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.
>
> rona
>
>

[Mr. Nangla]

Hey,

When you say a break-away collar do you mean that part of the collar is made
form is elastic? The later pictures was taken about July/Augest and she's
was about 1.

sonny :)

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mr. Nangla" > wrote in message
> ...
> > here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat
garden'
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a
> > :-)
> >
>
> What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly
grew
> into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)!
>
> BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar,
especially
> with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current
> collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch
or
> something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar.
>
> rona
>
>

[Phil P.]

"Phar Kemal" > wrote in message
...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house.

That's the general idea... *Protection*. Our cats' safety and well-being
are entrusted to us... That means protecting them from unnecessary
dangers....

If you have the space, a protected outdoor enclosure provides the cat with
the best of both worlds..


You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.

You'd be sent to prison for neutering your children, too... Cats are not
children and children are not cats... The tail is a dead giveaway....

[Phil P.]

"Phar Kemal" > wrote in message
...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house.

That's the general idea... *Protection*. Our cats' safety and well-being
are entrusted to us... That means protecting them from unnecessary
dangers....

If you have the space, a protected outdoor enclosure provides the cat with
the best of both worlds..


You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.

You'd be sent to prison for neutering your children, too... Cats are not
children and children are not cats... The tail is a dead giveaway....

[Phil P.]

"Phar Kemal" > wrote in message
...
> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by
> never letting him out of the house.

That's the general idea... *Protection*. Our cats' safety and well-being
are entrusted to us... That means protecting them from unnecessary
dangers....

If you have the space, a protected outdoor enclosure provides the cat with
the best of both worlds..


You could do the same with your
> children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to
> prison.

You'd be sent to prison for neutering your children, too... Cats are not
children and children are not cats... The tail is a dead giveaway....

[Alison]

Hi Cheryl,
My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
.. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .
Feral cats seem to be more at risk from traffic than pet cats , maybe
its because they have further to travel for food etc and/ or maybe
they don't fear cars as much as domestic cats because they're more
used to them having lived by or near roadsides since birth . The
biggest risk to UK cats is traffic , I sometimes wonder if its the
speed of cars nowadays (they accelerate so fast ) rather than the
density and even the width of the road might make a difference ,
English roads can be very narrow , on my estate on some roads if
people don't park half on the pavement ,cars can't get by where as
cats have further to cross on US roads. . I've noticed that at busy
times with heavy traffic and people on the pavements , say near
schools, the cats seem to disappear and come out again when the coast
is clear so to speak .
I don't know so much about feral cats but cats do tend to
stick to their territory if they have everything they want and
speutered , they might not feel the need to wander , maybe your cats
stay because they like their human slave. bg.
Alison


--
> >
> Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
> see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
> the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
> extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house
hoping
> that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
> though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
> but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
> to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
> where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".
>
>

[Alison]

Hi Cheryl,
My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
.. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .
Feral cats seem to be more at risk from traffic than pet cats , maybe
its because they have further to travel for food etc and/ or maybe
they don't fear cars as much as domestic cats because they're more
used to them having lived by or near roadsides since birth . The
biggest risk to UK cats is traffic , I sometimes wonder if its the
speed of cars nowadays (they accelerate so fast ) rather than the
density and even the width of the road might make a difference ,
English roads can be very narrow , on my estate on some roads if
people don't park half on the pavement ,cars can't get by where as
cats have further to cross on US roads. . I've noticed that at busy
times with heavy traffic and people on the pavements , say near
schools, the cats seem to disappear and come out again when the coast
is clear so to speak .
I don't know so much about feral cats but cats do tend to
stick to their territory if they have everything they want and
speutered , they might not feel the need to wander , maybe your cats
stay because they like their human slave. bg.
Alison


--
> >
> Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
> see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
> the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
> extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house
hoping
> that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
> though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
> but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
> to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
> where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".
>
>

[Alison]

Hi Cheryl,
My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
.. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .
Feral cats seem to be more at risk from traffic than pet cats , maybe
its because they have further to travel for food etc and/ or maybe
they don't fear cars as much as domestic cats because they're more
used to them having lived by or near roadsides since birth . The
biggest risk to UK cats is traffic , I sometimes wonder if its the
speed of cars nowadays (they accelerate so fast ) rather than the
density and even the width of the road might make a difference ,
English roads can be very narrow , on my estate on some roads if
people don't park half on the pavement ,cars can't get by where as
cats have further to cross on US roads. . I've noticed that at busy
times with heavy traffic and people on the pavements , say near
schools, the cats seem to disappear and come out again when the coast
is clear so to speak .
I don't know so much about feral cats but cats do tend to
stick to their territory if they have everything they want and
speutered , they might not feel the need to wander , maybe your cats
stay because they like their human slave. bg.
Alison


--
> >
> Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I
> see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just
> the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming
> extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house
hoping
> that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home,
> though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way
> but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home
> to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know
> where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced".
>
>

[Yngver]

Mr. Nangla" wrote:

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
We made a little "cat patio" under a lilac bush. Laid some patio pavers (nice
and cool to lie on or roll around) and made a small, shallow pool next to it.

Our cats also like anything "jungle-like" for hiding and peering out. Hosta
works well, also ferns. Plus we have butterfly-attracting plants, because the
cats love to watch and chase the butterflies.

[Yngver]

Mr. Nangla" wrote:

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
We made a little "cat patio" under a lilac bush. Laid some patio pavers (nice
and cool to lie on or roll around) and made a small, shallow pool next to it.

Our cats also like anything "jungle-like" for hiding and peering out. Hosta
works well, also ferns. Plus we have butterfly-attracting plants, because the
cats love to watch and chase the butterflies.

[Yngver]

Mr. Nangla" wrote:

>I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more
>interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice
>if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have
>gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY
>term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better
>go and draw these out!
>
We made a little "cat patio" under a lilac bush. Laid some patio pavers (nice
and cool to lie on or roll around) and made a small, shallow pool next to it.

Our cats also like anything "jungle-like" for hiding and peering out. Hosta
works well, also ferns. Plus we have butterfly-attracting plants, because the
cats love to watch and chase the butterflies.

[Orchid]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:20:12 +0100, "Alison"
> wrote:

>Hi Cheryl,
> My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
>some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
>it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
>cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
>. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .

You are correct, though you missed some of the biggest dangers
to outside cats in the US -- predation. The US has coyotes (and
they've become quite urban), large owls (some of which prey on cats so
often that they're on the natural prey list), hawks, eagles, foxes
(much larger than UK foxes), and bobcats. Unfortunately, bobcats are
so much larger than domestic cats that they see domestics as a food
source. I have personally witnessed a Great Horned Owl take a ~10 lb
barn cat, killing it instantly and taking it back to the nest, and I
live only around 30 minutes from Washington DC.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

[Orchid]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:20:12 +0100, "Alison"
> wrote:

>Hi Cheryl,
> My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
>some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
>it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
>cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
>. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .

You are correct, though you missed some of the biggest dangers
to outside cats in the US -- predation. The US has coyotes (and
they've become quite urban), large owls (some of which prey on cats so
often that they're on the natural prey list), hawks, eagles, foxes
(much larger than UK foxes), and bobcats. Unfortunately, bobcats are
so much larger than domestic cats that they see domestics as a food
source. I have personally witnessed a Great Horned Owl take a ~10 lb
barn cat, killing it instantly and taking it back to the nest, and I
live only around 30 minutes from Washington DC.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

[Orchid]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:20:12 +0100, "Alison"
> wrote:

>Hi Cheryl,
> My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read
>some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes
>it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of
>cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners
>. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK .

You are correct, though you missed some of the biggest dangers
to outside cats in the US -- predation. The US has coyotes (and
they've become quite urban), large owls (some of which prey on cats so
often that they're on the natural prey list), hawks, eagles, foxes
(much larger than UK foxes), and bobcats. Unfortunately, bobcats are
so much larger than domestic cats that they see domestics as a food
source. I have personally witnessed a Great Horned Owl take a ~10 lb
barn cat, killing it instantly and taking it back to the nest, and I
live only around 30 minutes from Washington DC.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

[-L.]

"tman" > wrote in message >...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

<snip>

I could have written the above two paragraphs except my cats are 12
and 13. When we moved to this (fenced) property in March, I started
letting my one cat who wanted to go out (Peewee), go out supervised -
always with me in attendance. As of this past week, it nearly killed
him. Despite me watching him, he managed to eat enough grass (and
possibly something else) which interacted with a hairball in his
system, and caused an intestinal blockage - which has passed, but has
exascerbated an underlying condition. I have posted a few posts over
the last week, describing his story in this ng, if you're interested.

So, from experience, I say, *do not* let your cats outside. A few
hours of freedom are not worth the grief and expense I have gone
through over the last week.

-L.

[-L.]

"tman" > wrote in message >...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

<snip>

I could have written the above two paragraphs except my cats are 12
and 13. When we moved to this (fenced) property in March, I started
letting my one cat who wanted to go out (Peewee), go out supervised -
always with me in attendance. As of this past week, it nearly killed
him. Despite me watching him, he managed to eat enough grass (and
possibly something else) which interacted with a hairball in his
system, and caused an intestinal blockage - which has passed, but has
exascerbated an underlying condition. I have posted a few posts over
the last week, describing his story in this ng, if you're interested.

So, from experience, I say, *do not* let your cats outside. A few
hours of freedom are not worth the grief and expense I have gone
through over the last week.

-L.

[-L.]

"tman" > wrote in message >...
> Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has
> never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could
> get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside.
>
> Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and
> brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now?

<snip>

I could have written the above two paragraphs except my cats are 12
and 13. When we moved to this (fenced) property in March, I started
letting my one cat who wanted to go out (Peewee), go out supervised -
always with me in attendance. As of this past week, it nearly killed
him. Despite me watching him, he managed to eat enough grass (and
possibly something else) which interacted with a hairball in his
system, and caused an intestinal blockage - which has passed, but has
exascerbated an underlying condition. I have posted a few posts over
the last week, describing his story in this ng, if you're interested.

So, from experience, I say, *do not* let your cats outside. A few
hours of freedom are not worth the grief and expense I have gone
through over the last week.

-L.

[Elaine Rene]

"Alison" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>
> "Barb 1" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> > Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
> nut like
> > me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
> the
> > house but he didn't want it.
> >
> > Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
> was.
> >
> > Barb
>
> Hi Barb ,
> I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
> because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
> domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
> ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
> Alison
>
>

True, and the funny thing is, all it takes to keep them close is love and
attention.
We have land, no neighbors before at least 10 min. walk, fields and wood,
the best cat "amusement park" around. Yet, they are always close to the
house, on or under the balconies, or hanging in the old stable next to the
house. Once in a while I see cats that come around from very far, surely
they are barn cats, but my cats never get the idea of going off roaming.
They are attached to the house because they know we are attached to them.

Elaine

[Elaine Rene]

"Alison" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>
> "Barb 1" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> > Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
> nut like
> > me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
> the
> > house but he didn't want it.
> >
> > Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
> was.
> >
> > Barb
>
> Hi Barb ,
> I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
> because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
> domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
> ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
> Alison
>
>

True, and the funny thing is, all it takes to keep them close is love and
attention.
We have land, no neighbors before at least 10 min. walk, fields and wood,
the best cat "amusement park" around. Yet, they are always close to the
house, on or under the balconies, or hanging in the old stable next to the
house. Once in a while I see cats that come around from very far, surely
they are barn cats, but my cats never get the idea of going off roaming.
They are attached to the house because they know we are attached to them.

Elaine

[Elaine Rene]

"Alison" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>
> "Barb 1" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on
> > Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat
> nut like
> > me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in
> the
> > house but he didn't want it.
> >
> > Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he
> was.
> >
> > Barb
>
> Hi Barb ,
> I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me
> because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being
> domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild
> ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves.
> Alison
>
>

True, and the funny thing is, all it takes to keep them close is love and
attention.
We have land, no neighbors before at least 10 min. walk, fields and wood,
the best cat "amusement park" around. Yet, they are always close to the
house, on or under the balconies, or hanging in the old stable next to the
house. Once in a while I see cats that come around from very far, surely
they are barn cats, but my cats never get the idea of going off roaming.
They are attached to the house because they know we are attached to them.

Elaine