Re: Rescue, when to take off flea collars?

[Joe]

(Nadine) wrote:

> Joe wrote:
>>>After bringing the new cat indoors, I put flea collars on both, the
> resident cat and the street cat. About how long should I leave the
> collars on both? I guess what I am asking for is the time it takes for
> the collar to kill current fleas and the time it takes for flea eggs to
> hatch and die.
>
> You may as well remove them now as they don't work.

Your WebTV newsreader doesn't work.

>>>For the anti-collar gang. Please realize that I don't like the idea of
> pesticides on my cats. The collars are a quick/effective method to nuke
> the fleas. The collars will come off as soon as I am confident all of
> the fleas in my apartment are dead.
>
> Flea collars are nothing but pesticides.

Of course they are. Why would anyone think differently?

> They are not only NOT quick/effective flea killers but they can
> make a cat sick.

So can Advantage.

> Try some Advantage, which is not absorbed into the cats system,

That is nonsense.

> it stays on the hair follicles

You haven't even read the directions.

> and it WORKS.

Such products can cause servere body tremmers. At which time, the cat is
supposed to be thuroughly bathed. Since he could get outside by accident,
I didn't want to risk him out there dying from an allergic reation to a
product which is relatively new to the market.

Thanks for nothing.

Out.

[Nadine]

Joe wrote:
>>Your WebTV newsreader doesn't work.

Works just fine, thank you

Advantage is one of the safest products on the market and is far from
being relatively new. Not only have I read the directions I have
attended a few seminars on the product so I know how it works. It
doesn't cause the tremors like some over the counter products (Hartz,
bio spot ect.)
Nor have there been any reported cases of it killing any animals! (If
you can post some I would be interested). Flea collars are nothing but
a waste of money, but go for it I could really care less.

>>Thanks for nothing

Joe you keep making comments about other people being nasty, well maybe
you should look in a mirror, because you are an ass. Since you seem to
think you already know everything why bother asking.

Nadine

[Anti-Flag]

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> (corrected quoting)
>
> (Nadine) wrote:
> > Joe wrote:
>
> >>Your WebTV newsreader doesn't work.
>
> > Works just fine, thank you
>
> No one can follow conversations in which you particapate because your
WebTV
> newsreader misquotes everything.
>
> Find a friend who can help you fix that.
>
> > Advantage is one of the safest products on the market and is far from
> > being relatively new.
>
> Flea collars have been around much longer than Advantage.
>
> > Not only have I read the directions I have attended a few seminars
> > on the product so I know how it works.
>
> You wrote:
> >>> it stays on the hair follicles
>
> http://www.nofleas.com/Advantage-for-Cats.asp
> ... apply the solution directly on the skin.

hair follicles are in the skin, its the name of the things hair grow out of.

> > It doesn't cause the tremors like some over the counter products
> > (Hartz, bio spot ect.)
> > Nor have there been any reported cases of it killing any animals!
> > (If you can post some I would be interested).
>
> Maybe, but I find curious the fact that the side effects are not listed on
> Bexar's web site. I thought all drugs have side effects, especially
> prescription only drugs.
>
> > Flea collars are nothing but a waste of money,
>
> Provide some evidence of that. There must be some clinical studies.
>
> They work just fine in my experience.
>
> > I could really [not] care less.
>
> That is precisely what your answer sounds like. Also probably why you do
> not bother to properly format your replies. Then you harp on having been
a
> vet tech for 16 years when anyone questions your carelessness.
>
> > well maybe you should look in a mirror, because you are an ass.
>
> At least I make an effort to give accurate, considerate information.
>

[Nadine]

Joe maybe you'll be able to understand me this way. Advantage is
to be applied as close to the skin as possible so that it can travel up
the hair follicles, it is not absorbed into the system. It works and is
extremely safe.
I have been a tech. for 18 years not 16. But I didn't "harp"
on that at all, heck I didn't even mention it to you, until now and only
because you brought it up. Of course that has nothing to do with how my
posts look. Sorry if my posting skills don't meet your requirements.
I don't have the time to perfect them as I spend most of my time dealing
with real life animal care.
If flea collars worked so well then why was flea control so
impossible (without bathing the animal, and treating the house/yard with
harsh chemicals ect...constantly-not that that worked well either) all
those years before Advantage/Frontline came onto the market?
As for you saying, "At least I make an effort to give accurate,
considerate information." LMAO. nothing you say is considerate, just
nasty. But that seems to be the norm in here.
And I asked you to show some studies showing where Advantage has
killed any animal.

Nadine

[default]

I dont know who Baxer is but Bayer Pharmaceuticals makes Advantage...

Nadine wrote:

> Joe maybe you'll be able to understand me this way. Advantage is
> to be applied as close to the skin as possible so that it can travel up
> the hair follicles, it is not absorbed into the system. It works and is
> extremely safe.
> I have been a tech. for 18 years not 16. But I didn't "harp"
> on that at all, heck I didn't even mention it to you, until now and only
> because you brought it up. Of course that has nothing to do with how my
> posts look. Sorry if my posting skills don't meet your requirements.
> I don't have the time to perfect them as I spend most of my time dealing
> with real life animal care.
> If flea collars worked so well then why was flea control so
> impossible (without bathing the animal, and treating the house/yard with
> harsh chemicals ect...constantly-not that that worked well either) all
> those years before Advantage/Frontline came onto the market?
> As for you saying, "At least I make an effort to give accurate,
> considerate information." LMAO. nothing you say is considerate, just
> nasty. But that seems to be the norm in here.
> And I asked you to show some studies showing where Advantage has
> killed any animal.
>
> Nadine

[Nadine]

(Joe) wrote:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>Fixing your WebTV newsreader might help you
>follow the conversation.

I've had no problem what so ever following the conversation.

>I said you harp on having been a vet tech when
>others question your recklessness.

No harping or recklessness

>It is your WebTV newsreader cofiguration. But I
>am not bashing WebTV users, the problem is
>your particular WebTV newsreader configuration.
>I do not recall seeing that horrible formatting
>among other WebTV users.

Webs don't have newsreader configurations as far as I know, but I did
this the long way to help you out.

>And No, snipping everything isn't the solution.

Again, just trying to help you out

>I think you are just careless, or you cannot find
>a friend to help you. If I met you on the Internet
>without knowing who you are, I probably would
>offer to help. Lots of people would. Here, I am
>just trying to give you a clue.

Like I would ever ask the likes of you for help!

>So how do you find time to shill for your flea
>treatment?

Just trying to make things safer for the cats, but you obviously don't
care about safety.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>Again, fixing your WebTV newsreader might
>help you follow the conversation. I never said
>they work really well. You get what you pay for.

Works better then my I MAC, which I use for my real computer needs.

>But I think flea collars are working well enough
>for my cats.

Good for you, whatever floats your boat.

>That is your argument. I asked you for clinical
<results supporting your brash claim flea collars
>do not work. I am sure there are lots of clinical
>results especially from the makers of alternative
>products. I mean seriously. You put the collar
>on a flea infested animal and later you test for
>fleas. Sounds easy to me.

Nope, not my argument as I have no problem with fleas because I use
Advantage. Many people have tried flea collars, only to find out that
they wasted their money. Then they come to us saying "help my pet has
fleas and the flea collar isn't working". If you need/want clinical
studies do your own homework as I already know the truth about them.

>I know flea collars are not healthy, but no
>chemicals will be on my cats after the
>fleas/eggs are dead.

Sure
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>You are lying again.

Not lying about a damn thing

>If that were true, maybe it is because trying to
>follow your conversation is frustrating.

Hope this one is easier for you to follow.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
>You claimed flea collars simply do not work
>before I said anything about the product you
>are selling.

I make NO money from Bayer. But to each their own. Do what you want.
It's not worth the time arguing with you.
--
>Have a great day anyway.

Oh I will, thank you

Nadine

[Bob Brenchley.]

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:50:01 -0400 (EDT),
(Nadine) wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>>>Your WebTV newsreader doesn't work.
>
>Works just fine, thank you
>
>Advantage is one of the safest products on the market and is far from
>being relatively new. Not only have I read the directions I have
>attended a few seminars on the product so I know how it works. It
>doesn't cause the tremors like some over the counter products (Hartz,
>bio spot ect.)

Advantage is known to cause a very bad allergic reaction on some cats,
though the incidence is fairly small. Any cat that has not been
treated with Advantage (and to a lesser extent Frontline) should
always be given half the normal dose at first, then the other half two
or three days later.

>Nor have there been any reported cases of it killing any animals! (If
>you can post some I would be interested).

The same thing can be said for flea collars and other products.

> Flea collars are nothing but
>a waste of money, but go for it I could really care less.

Most cats need a collar, it may as well be a flea collar. For many
cats that is all the protection from fleas they will need for most of
the year.
>
>>>Thanks for nothing
>
>Joe you keep making comments about other people being nasty, well maybe
>you should look in a mirror, because you are an ass. Since you seem to
>think you already know everything why bother asking.
>
>Nadine

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

[Bob Brenchley.]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:32:57 -0400 (EDT),
(Nadine) wrote:

> Joe maybe you'll be able to understand me this way. Advantage is
>to be applied as close to the skin as possible so that it can travel up
>the hair follicles, it is not absorbed into the system. It works and is
>extremely safe.

It does work, it is relatively safe. However, so are normal flea
collars.

> I have been a tech. for 18 years not 16. But I didn't "harp"
>on that at all, heck I didn't even mention it to you, until now and only
>because you brought it up. Of course that has nothing to do with how my
>posts look. Sorry if my posting skills don't meet your requirements.
>I don't have the time to perfect them as I spend most of my time dealing
>with real life animal care.

Then you show a lack of respect for other Usenet users. If you want
your post read by people you need to format them correctly.

> If flea collars worked so well then why was flea control so
>impossible (without bathing the animal, and treating the house/yard with
>harsh chemicals ect...constantly-not that that worked well either) all
>those years before Advantage/Frontline came onto the market?

Flea collars work fine, on most cats and for most of the year. At the
height of flea season products like Advantage give extra protection.

> As for you saying, "At least I make an effort to give accurate,
>considerate information." LMAO. nothing you say is considerate, just
>nasty. But that seems to be the norm in here.
> And I asked you to show some studies showing where Advantage has
>killed any animal.

As yet there are only a few cases, but then Advantage forms a small
sector of the anti-flea market. As Advantage and Frontline are only
available through vets in the UK vets can, and do, warn people that
there may be an adverse reaction first time, and of course tell people
not to panic as the reaction usually passes after a couple of hours.
For cats who are already ill, or known to be allergic to things, vets
do not recommend Advantage.
>
>Nadine

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

[Joe]

(Nadine) wrote:

> you obviously don't care about safety.

I monitor my cats carefully.

Today, a veterinarian gave Kitty (the new male cat) two shots and pills for
the tapeworms.

Drontal FELINE
EV/Rhino/Calici Annual
Rabies, Feline
Exam by Doctor

I will take him back next month for booster shots.





--
The new male cat is perfect for Kiki, IMO. She still hisses when they get
close. He is very timid, not territorial at all but does show signs of
wanting to play. He is 12.5 pounds to her 10 pounds, so if she actaully
tries to hurt him, if he cannot run I think he will stop it. Hopefully,
Kiki will get used to him enough to play, someday maybe.

Have a great day anyway.

[DeAnna]

> > They are not only NOT quick/effective flea killers but they can
> > make a cat sick.
>
> So can Advantage.

Actually, in testing, Advantage was literally FED to the test subjects. With no ill
effects.

From the manufacturer website:
"Advantage is backed by extensive and thorough domestic animal safety studies that show
even when administered at five times the target therapeutic dosage for three consecutive
days, cats and dogs experienced no adverse effects4. If you apply as recommended, you can
be confident of the gentleness of Advantage on your pet.
4Bayer Domestic Animal Safety Studies"

The active ingredient, is also used as a grain pesticide, and is thereby ingested, even
by humans. You can read more on this here:
http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/imidaclo.htm
(snip excerpted from toxicity studies-note-the imidacloprid was ingested in these studies)
"Chronic Toxicity: A 2-year feeding study in rats fed up to 1,800 ppm resulted in a No
Observable Effect Level (NOEL) of 100 ppm (5.7 mg/kg body weight in males and 7.6 mg/kg in
females). Adverse effects included decreased body weight gain in females at 300 ppm, and
increased thyroid lesions in males at 300 ppm and females at 900 ppm. A 1-year feeding
study in dogs fed up to 2,500 ppm resulted in a NOEL of 1,250 ppm (41 mg/kg). Adverse
effects included increased cholesterol levels in the blood, and some stress to the liver
(measured by elevated liver cytochrome p-450 levels) (331)"

We use Advantage, and have had no problems, even on very sick animals.
D.

[DeAnna]

Tapeworms are transmitted via blood transmission via .... fleas.

If you want to prevent re-infestation, I would strongly suggest you re-think your flea
treatment alternatives. Collars are statistically on the low end of the scale when it
comes to being effective. Even if you never let your cats outside, you can carry the fleas
in to them. And if the fleas are carrying tapeworm eggs, you will start the vicious cycle
all over.

If you remove the collars, for the safety of the animal, you may actually be unwittingly
exposing them to re-infestation.

Here is a good article that explains tapeworm:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tapeworm.html

As that article says, the key to eradication tapeworms is home flea control.

I use Advantage, as I posted earlier in the thread. I have seen enough evidence to justify
it as a reasonable risk as opposed to the complications that can be associated with having
a flea infestation. I, myself, am highly allergic to flea bites, and tend to scratch in my
sleep, causing no end to scars and infections. We also have a dog that is sensitive to
flea bites, to the point where she scratches herself raw. She has had no lesions since we
switched to Advantage.

Remember, with any product to control fleas, you are TRYING to KILL something, therefore,
whatever you use will be somewhat toxic, in one form or another. It is like taking any
kind of medicine. You will always have some "side effects". There are risks associated
with everything, but you have to weigh the benefit against the reasonable risk to the
user.

Good luck. Fleas are evil minions of satan, and all deserve to die!

D.



"Joe" > wrote in message ...
> (Nadine) wrote:
>
> > you obviously don't care about safety.
>
> I monitor my cats carefully.
>
> Today, a veterinarian gave Kitty (the new male cat) two shots and pills for
> the tapeworms.
>
> Drontal FELINE
> EV/Rhino/Calici Annual
> Rabies, Feline
> Exam by Doctor
>
> I will take him back next month for booster shots.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The new male cat is perfect for Kiki, IMO. She still hisses when they get
> close. He is very timid, not territorial at all but does show signs of
> wanting to play. He is 12.5 pounds to her 10 pounds, so if she actaully
> tries to hurt him, if he cannot run I think he will stop it. Hopefully,
> Kiki will get used to him enough to play, someday maybe.
>
> Have a great day anyway.

[Bob Brenchley.]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:09:13 -0500, "DeAnna" >
wrote:

>> > They are not only NOT quick/effective flea killers but they can
>> > make a cat sick.
>>
>> So can Advantage.
>
>Actually, in testing, Advantage was literally FED to the test subjects. With no ill
>effects.

True, but that does not mean it is the same with all cats.
>
>From the manufacturer website:
>"Advantage is backed by extensive and thorough domestic animal safety studies that show
>even when administered at five times the target therapeutic dosage for three consecutive
>days, cats and dogs experienced no adverse effects4. If you apply as recommended, you can
>be confident of the gentleness of Advantage on your pet.
>4Bayer Domestic Animal Safety Studies"

And for that vast majority of cats and dogs that is 100% true, though
just the same can be said for many other products. However, for a
small number, reactions can and do occur.
>
> The active ingredient, is also used as a grain pesticide, and is thereby ingested, even
>by humans. You can read more on this here:
>http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/imidaclo.htm
>(snip excerpted from toxicity studies-note-the imidacloprid was ingested in these studies)
>"Chronic Toxicity: A 2-year feeding study in rats fed up to 1,800 ppm resulted in a No
>Observable Effect Level (NOEL) of 100 ppm (5.7 mg/kg body weight in males and 7.6 mg/kg in
>females). Adverse effects included decreased body weight gain in females at 300 ppm, and
>increased thyroid lesions in males at 300 ppm and females at 900 ppm. A 1-year feeding
>study in dogs fed up to 2,500 ppm resulted in a NOEL of 1,250 ppm (41 mg/kg). Adverse
>effects included increased cholesterol levels in the blood, and some stress to the liver
>(measured by elevated liver cytochrome p-450 levels) (331)"
>
>We use Advantage, and have had no problems, even on very sick animals.
>D.

Your points?

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.