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View Full Version : Re: You CAN declaw with Love


Jolene Yates
July 6th 03, 09:00 PM
She is a year old. She started I'm sure before my fiance (now husband) got
her. She didn't scratch the carpet or the furniture. Only people. It's
difficult for me to assume that she is a bad kitty. She is always so good
otherwise. Since the only other problem we ever had with her is that she
saw my sister's kitten once and seemed incredibly jealous about it, hissed
and growled at us for hours after the other kitten was gone, we won't be
getting another cat until she is gone, so we won't have to face the declaw
issue again for a long time, if ever. I'm a bird person and my Crystal is
better behaved than Kitty.

Jolene

"*~*SooZy*~*" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jolene Yates" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thank you....finally someone who agrees that declawing is not as
horrible
> as
> > some of these people exagerate it to be. I understand what the surgery
> > entails, but one also must understand that while you can train a cat not
> to
> > scratch carpet or furniture, I have yet to find a way to make the cat
stop
> > tearing my hands, arms, ankles and feet to shreds. The scratches alone
> > wouldn't be so bad, but I am mildly allergic to cats and have low blood
> > pressure along with other problems that cause me to take a long time to
> > heal. When she would scratch me it would take hours for me to stop
> > bleeding, days to get the swelling to stop and weeks for me to heal.
> > I can already hear many people yelling, then you shouldn't have ever
> gotten
> > a cat. This is true, but it's a little difficult to tell your fiance
that
> > he has to choose between his cat and his fiance. So I just take my meds
> > that I have to take anyway to combat the rest of my allergies and love
> both
> > of them.
> > We had Kitty spayed and declawed last Thursday, brought her home
Saturday
> > and she has been wonderful. Shee doesn't have any trouble walking and
> > doesn't fuss at all about her paws.
> >
> > Jolene
>
> My cat never scratches anyone, she did in play as a kitten! and my kitten
> does in play too, but because I clip there nails they do not tear the
> skin.... he bites at the moment too!
> I understand it would be very bad for you to be scratched! sounds like a
> naughty cat to me! or is it still a kitten?
>
> declawing is banned in the UK anyway! but I have read so many horrible
> things about declawing I just wouldn't want it done on my cats, they use
> their scratch posts they have 6 in the house..... I spray the posts with
> catnip to encourage them, the furniture, wallpaper have never been used I
am
> glad to say. I am glad your cat seems ok at the moment and hope she has no
> problems in the future :-)
>
> --
> Luv 'n stuff
> *~*SooZy*~*
> http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk
>
>

*~*SooZy*~*
July 7th 03, 02:17 PM
> >I declawed my cats - all four paws. They're normal as before I
> >declawed them. At first, I was brainwashed by all those Cat Nazis and
> >didn't declaw them until I visited my friend who's cat has been
> >declawed all four paws and it was so sweet and gentle.

Mt cat has claws and she is so sweet and gentle too! but also able to climb
cat trees indoors, and if she did get out at least she has some form of
defence!
but so many things can go wrong with declawing :-(

so glad its banned in the UK

NEMESIS1IM
July 17th 03, 02:47 PM
Hello Everyone,


#1
My views are based directly on real life experience one of my cats was declawed
without my consent while being boarded at a Vets. I saw what it did to that
cat. I saw the personality change and I still carry scares from his resulting
personality change some 20 years ago.

#2 The research I have done since then, around 20 years of it, has all been
correlated and helped established my point of view on the subject.

#3 Declaw is a controversial subject that basically breaks down into two
opposing groups. Those that owe Cats and those who love Cats. Both sides
holding firm to their point of view.

The major point of difference being ownership versus love. Most owners think of
a cat as their property. Which in their point of view gives them complete
rights over the welfare of the cat. They feel perfectly justified to put there
personal wants above those of the cats

Most cat lovers on the other hand consider a cat to be a sentient being and
treat them as such rather than property.
They feel the cats well being far out weighs any inconvenience the cat may or
may not cause.

These are two fundamentally different an opposing view point that will never
meet. The only hope you have of changing someone's point of view on this is by
education.

Declawing has been banned in over 20 countries and the city of West Hollywood,
CA.

Many declawed cats end up in shelters.
Cats walk on their toes.

List of links

Why Cats Need Claws, from The Whole Cat Journal
http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

CFA Health Committee - Declawing
http://www.cfainc.org/health/declawing.html
Declaw Information Site Index
http://www.gcty.com/~luvcatz/declaw-index.html

The Paw Project - entry page
http://www.pawproject.com/

CatFancy Take declaw survey -
http://catfancy.com/catfancy/catcensus.asp
Regards,

http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/feralfelines/

Pussy Cat
July 17th 03, 03:53 PM
"NEMESIS1IM" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Everyone,
>
>
> #1
> My views are based directly on real life experience one of my cats was
declawed
> without my consent while being boarded at a Vets. I saw what it did to
that
> cat. I saw the personality change and I still carry scares from his
resulting
> personality change some 20 years ago.
>
> #2 The research I have done since then, around 20 years of it, has all
been
> correlated and helped established my point of view on the subject.
>
> #3 Declaw is a controversial subject that basically breaks down into two
> opposing groups. Those that owe Cats and those who love Cats. Both sides
> holding firm to their point of view.
>
> The major point of difference being ownership versus love. Most owners
think of
> a cat as their property. Which in their point of view gives them complete
> rights over the welfare of the cat. They feel perfectly justified to put
there
> personal wants above those of the cats
>
> Most cat lovers on the other hand consider a cat to be a sentient being
and
> treat them as such rather than property.
> They feel the cats well being far out weighs any inconvenience the cat may
or
> may not cause.
>
> These are two fundamentally different an opposing view point that will
never
> meet. The only hope you have of changing someone's point of view on this
is by
> education.
>
> Declawing has been banned in over 20 countries and the city of West
Hollywood,
> CA.
>
> Many declawed cats end up in shelters.
> Cats walk on their toes.
>
> List of links
>
> Why Cats Need Claws, from The Whole Cat Journal
> http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
>
> CFA Health Committee - Declawing
> http://www.cfainc.org/health/declawing.html
> Declaw Information Site Index
> http://www.gcty.com/~luvcatz/declaw-index.html
>
> The Paw Project - entry page
> http://www.pawproject.com/
>
> CatFancy Take declaw survey -
> http://catfancy.com/catfancy/catcensus.asp
> Regards,
>
> http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/feralfelines/

Some humans mistakenly believe that we are like babies/children, they forget
we are cats! we were given claws for a reason! if you hear the words
declawing! rehome yourself.

those so called animal lovers, think more of their furniture and carpets
than our needs! they forget we could escape one day and come face to face
with the local moggie who will rip our eyes out! we just have to hope we can
run fast! but being we have had no practice being indoor cats, you can guess
we will look a mess!

Glad I don't have to pay my own vet bills!!!!! glad I still have claws!

Pussy Cat
July 17th 03, 04:05 PM
Gosh if we bite you, you're be pulling our teeth out next!
let rip humans finger nails off one by one, they don't need them
--
Cats need to train humans

LeeAnne
July 17th 03, 04:07 PM
Holy crap, they declawed your cat w/o asking you? I would have sued the
sh*t out of them.

LeeAnne

"NEMESIS1IM" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Everyone,
>
>
> #1
> My views are based directly on real life experience one of my cats was
declawed
> without my consent while being boarded at a Vets. I saw what it did to
that
> cat. I saw the personality change and I still carry scares from his
resulting
> personality change some 20 years ago.
>

AWriteny
July 19th 03, 01:59 PM
says

>one of my cats was
>declawed
>without my consent while being boarded at a Vets.

I say, that's malpractice. No vet (in the USA, anyway) has the right to conduct
any surgery without the owners consent!

Rico
July 19th 03, 04:59 PM
In article >, "LeeAnne" > wrote:
>Holy crap, they declawed your cat w/o asking you? I would have sued the
>sh*t out of them.

I was thinking the same thing, I think today I would be the proud owner of
the vet clinc and have my own personal vet at my call.

>
>LeeAnne
>
>"NEMESIS1IM" > wrote in message
...
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>>
>> #1
>> My views are based directly on real life experience one of my cats was
>declawed
>> without my consent while being boarded at a Vets. I saw what it did to
>that
>> cat. I saw the personality change and I still carry scares from his
>resulting
>> personality change some 20 years ago.
>>
>
>

moonglow minnow
July 19th 03, 09:20 PM
AWriteny howled at the moon, then scrawled thusly upon the aether:

> says
>
>>one of my cats was
>>declawed
>>without my consent while being boarded at a Vets.
>
> I say, that's malpractice. No vet (in the USA, anyway) has the right
> to conduct any surgery without the owners consent!

.... With the exception of surgery to save the animal's life, and then only
if the owner is unknown or cannot be contacted.

I'd sue for malpractice, if only to save other kitties and their people
from similar suffering and distress.

Maeve
--
throw the baby out with the bathwater to reply by e-mail
~*~ http://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com ~*~

666-A -- The Tenant of the Beast.

kaeli
July 21st 03, 03:19 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
>
> This just in, thousands of cats destroyed because owners didn't know you
> could have cats declawed. Instead cats were tossed into the wild to fend
> for themselves. Other cats were dumped at already over crowded shelters.
> But at least those dead cats died with their claws.
>

This just in - thousands of already declawed cats die every year because
stupid owners that don't give a rat's ass about them dump them off when
they have behavioral problems due to the amputation of the first joint
on every toe. They die alone, lonely, sad, abandoned, and utterly
confused. But at least they weren't outside!

--
-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

Bob Brenchley.
July 23rd 03, 11:15 AM
On 17 Jul 2003 13:47:42 GMT, (NEMESIS1IM) wrote:

>Declawing has been banned in over 20 countries and the city of West Hollywood,
>CA.


I think it is easier to list those countries that still practice this
barbaric act of animal mutilation.

USA.
Canada.

No, sorry, can't find anymore.

--
Bob.

The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The
distinction is yours to draw...

kaeli
July 23rd 03, 02:35 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> please provide a cite please for your assertions. if a cat has behavioral
> problems, its not because of declawing. it probably is because of the owner
> not the declawing.
>
>

All siting done here, with quotes from vets and behavioral scientists.

http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/nodeclaw.html

There's a reason it's illegal in other countries. Americans care more
for money than their pets.


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

Bob Brenchley.
July 24th 03, 11:14 AM
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:35:43 -0500, kaeli
> wrote:

>In article >,
>enlightened us with...
>> please provide a cite please for your assertions. if a cat has behavioral
>> problems, its not because of declawing. it probably is because of the owner
>> not the declawing.
>>
>>
>
>All siting done here, with quotes from vets and behavioral scientists.
>
>http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/nodeclaw.html
>
>There's a reason it's illegal in other countries. Americans care more
>for money than their pets.
>

I believe it can be summed up like this.

USA: I want a pet that I can mould to my way of life.

UK: I want a pet and am happy to change my ways to meet its needs.

--
Bob.

This sentence has exactly six words.

bewtifulfreak
July 25th 03, 05:59 PM
I would never declaw my cats now that I've learned more about it, but way
back when, we had our cat declawed because that was the only way they would
allow her in the apartment we were moving into, and we didn't realize at the
time how harmful it was, or that it was actually amputation. I always
thought she did pretty well, all considered, especially because she still
scratches, which I figured helps her to keep her muscles intact. But now I
read it's still not the same as the exercise gained from actually tugging
with the claws during scratching. What kind of personality changes can
declawing cause? She is about 17 now and living with my ex, but I was just
wondering, as she was always a little aloof since having a litter of kittens
(another mistake we made), and has always been a bit distant and prissy, but
I wonder how much the declawing thing may have affected her. It's probably
been about a decade now, give or take, and she seems to be a reasonably
healthy and contented cat, but I was just wondering, as she's the only cat I
ever had that's been declawed, and the only one that ever will be.

Ann

kaeli
July 25th 03, 07:21 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> quotes from vets & behavioral scientists is not research. show me the
> research that proves your assertion.
>
>

If you'd read it, and the links, you'd have seen the research. Plenty of
it. Why do you think the procedure is banned in so many countries? For
the hell of it?

Quotes from people who did the research is research, too, in case you
haven't done any term papers in college lately. So are interviews with
people who have experience. That's where articles come from. Did you
think writers actually performed all the case studies themselves?

Which part didn't you understand? The part where declawing causes
complications or the part where there are plenty of declawed cats in
shelters, many of which have behavioral problems?

If declawing cats saved them, there wouldn't be hardly any at the
shelters. Yet there are plenty. In fact, the few shelters I looked at in
my area recently had more declawed cats than clawed ones. Funny, that.

Now, I'm done arguing with someone who can't be bothered to read links
or write like a normal literate human being.
Bye bye.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli
July 25th 03, 08:34 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> I would never declaw my cats now that I've learned more about it, but way
> back when, we had our cat declawed because that was the only way they would
> allow her in the apartment we were moving into, and we didn't realize at the
> time how harmful it was, or that it was actually amputation. I always
> thought she did pretty well, all considered, especially because she still
> scratches, which I figured helps her to keep her muscles intact. But now I
> read it's still not the same as the exercise gained from actually tugging
> with the claws during scratching. What kind of personality changes can
> declawing cause? She is about 17 now and living with my ex, but I was just
> wondering, as she was always a little aloof since having a litter of kittens
> (another mistake we made), and has always been a bit distant and prissy, but
> I wonder how much the declawing thing may have affected her. It's probably
> been about a decade now, give or take, and she seems to be a reasonably
> healthy and contented cat, but I was just wondering, as she's the only cat I
> ever had that's been declawed, and the only one that ever will be.
>

Declawing is like russian roulette. It doesn't do permanent damage to
every cat. In fact, more cats deal well with the handicap than not. It
depends on the cat, its personality, the competence of the vet, and
other factors. I've known declawed cats that it didn't hurt at all,
relatively speaking. And I've known declawed cats that were never the
same. The problem is, you never know until it's too late. And you can't
take it back.

As to what can it cause - nothing or everything. The cat may not be
affected at all. The cat may be in pain and become defensive, biting and
hiding. The cat may associate the pain of the normal scraping after
using the litterbox to the box itself and avoid it. The cat may feel
vulnerable and become either more reclusive or more aggressive. It
really depends on the cat. The cat may be fine for months or even years
until the abnormal walking pattern degenerates its joints and muscles.
Cats don't like to show that they are in pain, so the effect humans see
may just be a sedentary, grouchy cat. Rarely, vets do a chop job and
botch the surgery, causing the nails to partially grow through the skin
of the pads. This is one of the worst things that can happen and
thankfully is also not that common. But it happens.

You'll never know if your cat would have had the same personality or
not. I have three clawed cats, one of whom is a prissy, somewhat aloof
girl, the other two are affectionate cuddle monsters.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

bewtifulfreak
July 28th 03, 05:32 PM
"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> enlightened us with...

> > By the way, can cats get acne

> Feline Acne or other skin conditions can cause these bumps.
> http://www.vetinfo.com/cacne.html
> http://www.kittencare.com/askKC_Feline_Acne.html

Thanks again, Kaeli, you really are a wealth of information! That sounds
exactly like what she has, cuz she only gets it from time to time, and it's
always under the chin. I'll still encourage the ex to get her checked out,
but you've pretty much put my mind at ease. :)

Ann

bewtifulfreak
July 29th 03, 09:39 PM
"No One But Me" > wrote in message
...

> cats can & do get acne on their chins. most of the time a change to
ceramic
> bowls or metal bowls for their food & water will clear it right up.

As opposed to plastic, I assume? That's interesting, is it because plastic
holds the germs more or somethng? I know they do tend to scar the plastic
with their teeth sometimes, so I wondered if that was why....anyway, I'll
mention that to the friend that has her, that would be a very easy change
for him to make. Thanks for the info!

Ann

No One But Me
July 30th 03, 10:22 PM
i have no idea why this works, but i assume it holds germs or something. the
change cleared up my Morris's chin completely.

"bewtifulfreak" > wrote in message
...
> "No One But Me" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > cats can & do get acne on their chins. most of the time a change to
> ceramic
> > bowls or metal bowls for their food & water will clear it right up.
>
> As opposed to plastic, I assume? That's interesting, is it because
plastic
> holds the germs more or somethng? I know they do tend to scar the plastic
> with their teeth sometimes, so I wondered if that was why....anyway, I'll
> mention that to the friend that has her, that would be a very easy change
> for him to make. Thanks for the info!
>
> Ann
>
>

bewtifulfreak
July 31st 03, 03:20 AM
"No One But Me" > wrote in message
...
> i have no idea why this works, but i assume it holds germs or something.
the
> change cleared up my Morris's chin completely.

That's great, glad to hear it! Thanks again for the info. :)

Ann

August 1st 03, 02:56 AM
>show me the research that proves your
>assertion.

I'll do you one better. Real life:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl4057128564d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=22243-3E7A7ABC-87%40storefull-2138.public.lawson.webtv.net



Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray