cat and child issue

[jmc]

I'm hoping someone here has some advice. I have no children, and thus
the advice I can offer is incomplete.

A coworker has a female cat, and a two-year-old girl. The child, for
some unknown reason, is terrified of the cat, though my coworker does
not think the cat has actually done anything to her - believe me, if she
had the slightest inkling the cat may have laid a paw on the child, the
cat would be gone. I suspect it's one of those kid things, like
apparently I was terrified of guinea pigs as a small child (really!)

Sorry, I'll have to keep calling her 'the cat' because I've completely
forgotten the cat's name.

Anyway, the cat is clearly taking advantage of the situation - she knows
that if she comes near, the little girl will leave, so she'll approach
my co-worker when the child's on her lap, then jump up as soon as the
kid leaves. I've told the coworker that she's reinforcing this behavior
by letting the cat stay, or by giving in when the cat keeps jumping
back, but I don't think she's convinced. Some other things she said the
cat does, convinces me she's deliberately displaying dominance (passive,
she never touches the kid) against this child - but I'm not sure of the
motivation. Competition (as for affection)? Because she can?

The issue is this - aside from the cat/child dynamic, this seems a good
home for the cat (she adopted them, was a stray) - she's not hurting the
child in any physical way, and the rest of the family (with the
exception of the youngest) loves her. They are, however, leaving the
country very soon, and trying to decide whether or not to bring the cat
with them.

How could they best handle this situation? Would the cat be better off
adopted out to a new home (sans small child)? Are there things the
parent(s) can do to improve the situation?

Thanks for any advice!

jmc

[BarB]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:37:26 +0000, jmc
> wrote:


>Anyway, the cat is clearly taking advantage of the situation - she knows
>that if she comes near, the little girl will leave, so she'll approach
>my co-worker when the child's on her lap, then jump up as soon as the
>kid leaves. I've told the coworker that she's reinforcing this behavior
>by letting the cat stay, or by giving in when the cat keeps jumping
>back, but I don't think she's convinced. Some other things she said the
>cat does, convinces me she's deliberately displaying dominance (passive,
>she never touches the kid) against this child - but I'm not sure of the
>motivation. Competition (as for affection)? Because she can?

Is this the scenario? Cat sees mother sitting down. Cat approaches
for wanted petting and attention. Child runs off. As I read it, the
cat does nothing to drive off the child. If it were another child,
wouldn't you assume that the second child might need more love and
affection, not less, and that he was not doing it just to be
annoying?

Pushing the cat away, withholding affection is not the solution. If
the situation is as you describe and the cat is not hostile to the
child, then perhaps a child behaviorist is needed to help the
daughter overcome her fear of animals. OTOH perhaps the child has
discovered a good way to get special attention from mom is to run
screaming from the cat.:)

Try the misc.kids.* parenting groups. I'm sure someone there will
have some suggestions.
>
>The issue is this - aside from the cat/child dynamic, this seems a good
>home for the cat (she adopted them, was a stray) - she's not hurting the
>child in any physical way, and the rest of the family (with the
>exception of the youngest) loves her. They are, however, leaving the
>country very soon, and trying to decide whether or not to bring the cat
>with them.
>
>How could they best handle this situation? Would the cat be better off
>adopted out to a new home (sans small child)? Are there things the
>parent(s) can do to improve the situation?

I don't think the parents should reinforce the child's phobia /
jealousy by getting rid of an innocent animal, especially one the
rest of the family loves. If anyone is being manipulative, my money's
on the two-year-old.:)

BarB

[jmc]

Suddenly, without warning, BarB exclaimed (3/18/2005 2:11 AM):
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:37:26 +0000, jmc
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Anyway, the cat is clearly taking advantage of the situation - she knows
>>that if she comes near, the little girl will leave, so she'll approach
>>my co-worker when the child's on her lap, then jump up as soon as the
>>kid leaves. I've told the coworker that she's reinforcing this behavior
>>by letting the cat stay, or by giving in when the cat keeps jumping
>>back, but I don't think she's convinced. Some other things she said the
>>cat does, convinces me she's deliberately displaying dominance (passive,
>>she never touches the kid) against this child - but I'm not sure of the
>>motivation. Competition (as for affection)? Because she can?
>
>
> Is this the scenario? Cat sees mother sitting down. Cat approaches
> for wanted petting and attention. Child runs off. As I read it, the
> cat does nothing to drive off the child. If it were another child,
> wouldn't you assume that the second child might need more love and
> affection, not less, and that he was not doing it just to be
> annoying?
>

The way I was told it, the cat now approaches as soon as the child is on
the mother's lap. Again, this is secondhand information.

Otherwise, I really couldn't say. The cat also, since the child started
showing this fear (she didn't originally apparently, which goes toward
the possibility of some playacting here) has started sitting in other
places that the child considers 'hers', like her wagon. I'm just
repeating what the coworker's telling me - she is a very doting mother.
I've never had kids.

> Pushing the cat away, withholding affection is not the solution. If
> the situation is as you describe and the cat is not hostile to the
> child, then perhaps a child behaviorist is needed to help the
> daughter overcome her fear of animals. OTOH perhaps the child has
> discovered a good way to get special attention from mom is to run
> screaming from the cat.:)
>

That's quite possible, hadn't thought of that. It's just the sort of
thing one of her kids could probably get away with, too.

I wasn't really suggesting withholding affection, that'd be cruel, and
possibly make the problem worse. I don't let Meep get on my lap any
time she feels like it either. I'm alpha, and a lap warmer is my
choice, not hers. She is just trained to ask first, is all, and knows
the answer will be 'no' (thus doesn't ask) if I'm reading or eating.
That said, she gets plenty of interaction and lap time every day.

> Try the misc.kids.* parenting groups. I'm sure someone there will
> have some suggestions.
>
I'm afraid to go there :)

>>The issue is this - aside from the cat/child dynamic, this seems a good
>>home for the cat (she adopted them, was a stray) - she's not hurting the
>>child in any physical way, and the rest of the family (with the
>>exception of the youngest) loves her. They are, however, leaving the
>>country very soon, and trying to decide whether or not to bring the cat
>>with them.
>>
>>How could they best handle this situation? Would the cat be better off
>>adopted out to a new home (sans small child)? Are there things the
>>parent(s) can do to improve the situation?
>
>
> I don't think the parents should reinforce the child's phobia /
> jealousy by getting rid of an innocent animal, especially one the
> rest of the family loves. If anyone is being manipulative, my money's
> on the two-year-old.:)
>
Like I said, no kids myself. I never considered that a two-year-old
could already have developed enough to learn this sort of deception, and
I've no way to tell the difference. If I mention it to the mother, of
course, it would be out of the question, that her child could do such a
thing. Which, of course, probably increases the possibility that this
might be true.

And this is one reason I don't have kids. Cats are much easier to
figure out :)

However, I expect that the truth is somewhere near the middle. Cats can
be jealous and manipulative too. Perhaps this is more a dominance
"battle" for "mom's" affection?

jmc

[Karen]

in article , jmc at
wrote on 3/18/05 12:16 PM:

> Suddenly, without warning, BarB exclaimed (3/18/2005 2:11 AM):
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:37:26 +0000, jmc
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, the cat is clearly taking advantage of the situation - she knows
>>> that if she comes near, the little girl will leave, so she'll approach
>>> my co-worker when the child's on her lap, then jump up as soon as the
>>> kid leaves. I've told the coworker that she's reinforcing this behavior
>>> by letting the cat stay, or by giving in when the cat keeps jumping
>>> back, but I don't think she's convinced. Some other things she said the
>>> cat does, convinces me she's deliberately displaying dominance (passive,
>>> she never touches the kid) against this child - but I'm not sure of the
>>> motivation. Competition (as for affection)? Because she can?
>>
>>
>> Is this the scenario? Cat sees mother sitting down. Cat approaches
>> for wanted petting and attention. Child runs off. As I read it, the
>> cat does nothing to drive off the child. If it were another child,
>> wouldn't you assume that the second child might need more love and
>> affection, not less, and that he was not doing it just to be
>> annoying?
>>
>
> The way I was told it, the cat now approaches as soon as the child is on
> the mother's lap. Again, this is secondhand information.
>
> Otherwise, I really couldn't say. The cat also, since the child started
> showing this fear (she didn't originally apparently, which goes toward
> the possibility of some playacting here) has started sitting in other
> places that the child considers 'hers', like her wagon. I'm just
> repeating what the coworker's telling me - she is a very doting mother.
> I've never had kids.
>
>> Pushing the cat away, withholding affection is not the solution. If
>> the situation is as you describe and the cat is not hostile to the
>> child, then perhaps a child behaviorist is needed to help the
>> daughter overcome her fear of animals. OTOH perhaps the child has
>> discovered a good way to get special attention from mom is to run
>> screaming from the cat.:)
>>
>
> That's quite possible, hadn't thought of that. It's just the sort of
> thing one of her kids could probably get away with, too.
>
> I wasn't really suggesting withholding affection, that'd be cruel, and
> possibly make the problem worse. I don't let Meep get on my lap any
> time she feels like it either. I'm alpha, and a lap warmer is my
> choice, not hers. She is just trained to ask first, is all, and knows
> the answer will be 'no' (thus doesn't ask) if I'm reading or eating.
> That said, she gets plenty of interaction and lap time every day.
>
>> Try the misc.kids.* parenting groups. I'm sure someone there will
>> have some suggestions.
>>
> I'm afraid to go there :)
>
>>> The issue is this - aside from the cat/child dynamic, this seems a good
>>> home for the cat (she adopted them, was a stray) - she's not hurting the
>>> child in any physical way, and the rest of the family (with the
>>> exception of the youngest) loves her. They are, however, leaving the
>>> country very soon, and trying to decide whether or not to bring the cat
>>> with them.
>>>
>>> How could they best handle this situation? Would the cat be better off
>>> adopted out to a new home (sans small child)? Are there things the
>>> parent(s) can do to improve the situation?
>>
>>
>> I don't think the parents should reinforce the child's phobia /
>> jealousy by getting rid of an innocent animal, especially one the
>> rest of the family loves. If anyone is being manipulative, my money's
>> on the two-year-old.:)
>>
> Like I said, no kids myself. I never considered that a two-year-old
> could already have developed enough to learn this sort of deception, and
> I've no way to tell the difference. If I mention it to the mother, of
> course, it would be out of the question, that her child could do such a
> thing. Which, of course, probably increases the possibility that this
> might be true.
>

Oh my gosh, it is documented a 6 MONTH old can manipulate, let alone a two
year old. My money is on the child as well.


> And this is one reason I don't have kids. Cats are much easier to
> figure out :)
>
> However, I expect that the truth is somewhere near the middle. Cats can
> be jealous and manipulative too. Perhaps this is more a dominance
> "battle" for "mom's" affection?
>
> jmc

[jmc]

Suddenly, without warning, Karen exclaimed (3/18/2005 6:50 PM):
>
> Oh my gosh, it is documented a 6 MONTH old can manipulate, let alone a two
> year old. My money is on the child as well.
>

Gotcha. Well, it'd be hard to find someone my age (old enough that some
of my peers' kids are in college) that knows *less* about young
children. Probably for the best.

I'll *gently* suggest that perhaps her darling child may not be as
afraid of the cat as she's behaving (I'd already suggested professional
help if she genuinely is afraid, that didn't go over well either)...
won't get anywhere, but I owe it to the cat to try...