Diet Advice Wanted To Prevent Diabetes

[John Ross Mc Master]

I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science Diet dry
kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish and meat. Cinder
is in great shape now!
I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems from
ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the future to
prevent diabetes and other problems from ever happening in the first
place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[Mary]

"John Ross Mc Master" > wrote in message
...
> I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science Diet dry
> kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish and meat. Cinder
> is in great shape now!
> I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems from
> ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the future to
> prevent diabetes and other problems from ever happening in the first
> place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I used SD dry for years with nice results. That said, I saw significant
improvement in my cats' general health when I switched them to a
mostly canned diet. I am not sure how this figures in with diabetes,
but my bet is, it is good for them in every way.

With regard to diabetes--I know that exercise helps keep it away.
So play with your kitty a lot! (Someone else will chime in with more
helpful information ... good luck ..)

[Joe Canuck]

John Ross Mc Master wrote:
> I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science Diet dry
> kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish and meat. Cinder
> is in great shape now!
> I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems from
> ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the future to
> prevent diabetes and other problems from ever happening in the first
> place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Hehe, in other words you want the perfect diet that will prevent all
health problems from happening.

No such magic formula exists yet.

Science Diet is a good start. If you feed dry, be sure to provide plenty
of water and encourage drinking. Some cats love the pet drinking
fountains and may drink more because of that.

Try gradually switching over to a canned diet if you can. I tried a
couple of times unsuccessfully with mine. As much as she loved the
canned, it just would not agree with her.

[Phil P.]

"John Ross Mc Master" > wrote in message
...
> I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science Diet dry
> kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish and meat. Cinder
> is in great shape now!
> I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems from
> ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the future to
> prevent diabetes and other problems from ever happening in the first
> place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

The most significant step you can take is switching her over to a canned
food while she's still young. Most canned foods contain a lot less
carbohydrates than dry foods. In cats, excess carbs are the problem - not
fat.

I have successfully weaned several diabetic cats off insulin by feeding them
canned food only. There's no reason not to think feeding canned food might
prevent diabetes in some cats.

Phil

[Mary]

"Phil P." > wrote

> The most significant step you can take is switching her over to a canned
> food while she's still young. Most canned foods contain a lot less
> carbohydrates than dry foods. In cats, excess carbs are the problem - not
> fat.
>
> I have successfully weaned several diabetic cats off insulin by feeding
them
> canned food only.

Holy crap, Phil, that is fabulous!

There's no reason not to think feeding canned food might
> prevent diabetes in some cats.
>

Given my girl's reliance on steroids to control her
asthma and EGC, this is a great reason to try harder to get
her off of all dry. I will do that.

[Cheryl]

On Fri 25 Mar 2005 02:05:50p, John Ross Mc Master wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
):

> I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science
> Diet dry kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish
> and meat. Cinder is in great shape now!
> I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems
> from ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the
> future to prevent diabetes and other problems from ever
> happening in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a
> pound of cure.
>

If she's that used to dry food, it's so hard to change their eating
habits. My Bonnie refuses canned food and would rather chew her own
skin and put up a fight than eat canned if that's all she's
offered. I've given in for now, but sometimes see her lick canned
leftovers of my other cats food, so there's hope.

High quality canned food is definitely better than dry food. Even
if it's a 50/50 mix of their daily requirement.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

[Phil P.]

"Mary" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote
>
> > The most significant step you can take is switching her over to a canned
> > food while she's still young. Most canned foods contain a lot less
> > carbohydrates than dry foods. In cats, excess carbs are the problem -
not
> > fat.
> >
> > I have successfully weaned several diabetic cats off insulin by feeding
> them
> > canned food only.
>
> Holy crap, Phil, that is fabulous!


I was weaning diabetic cats off insulin by feeding them canned kitten food
or Nutro Chicken Supreme almost 5 years before any studies were done that
proved it works.

Remember my warning about phosphorus in about 5 years when a long term study
finally comes out linking high phosphorus diets with CRF.

>
> There's no reason not to think feeding canned food might
> > prevent diabetes in some cats.
> >
>
> Given my girl's reliance on steroids to control her
> asthma and EGC, this is a great reason to try harder to get
> her off of all dry. I will do that.

A study already found a link between dry food and interstitial cystitis -
maybe not as an actual cause - but dry food could unmask or aggravate the
disorder in cats that are predisposed to it. So its not unreasonable to
think dry food could also unmask or aggravate other subclinical conditions
or conditions that some cats may be predisposed to.

If cats were meant to eat dry food, they'd have fissured crowns for chewing
instead of pointed teeth for tearing and cutting - and jaws with rotary
motion for chewing instead of only vertical - and active glucokinase, too,
instead of just hexokinase.

Phil

[John Ross Mc Master]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:38:27 GMT, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
>"Mary" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote
>>
>> > The most significant step you can take is switching her over to a canned
>> > food while she's still young. Most canned foods contain a lot less
>> > carbohydrates than dry foods. In cats, excess carbs are the problem -
>not
>> > fat.
>> >
>> > I have successfully weaned several diabetic cats off insulin by feeding
>> them
>> > canned food only.
>>
>> Holy crap, Phil, that is fabulous!
>
>
>I was weaning diabetic cats off insulin by feeding them canned kitten food
>or Nutro Chicken Supreme almost 5 years before any studies were done that
>proved it works.
>
>Remember my warning about phosphorus in about 5 years when a long term study
>finally comes out linking high phosphorus diets with CRF.
>
>>
>> There's no reason not to think feeding canned food might
>> > prevent diabetes in some cats.
>> >
>>
>> Given my girl's reliance on steroids to control her
>> asthma and EGC, this is a great reason to try harder to get
>> her off of all dry. I will do that.
>
>A study already found a link between dry food and interstitial cystitis -
>maybe not as an actual cause - but dry food could unmask or aggravate the
>disorder in cats that are predisposed to it. So its not unreasonable to
>think dry food could also unmask or aggravate other subclinical conditions
>or conditions that some cats may be predisposed to.
>
>If cats were meant to eat dry food, they'd have fissured crowns for chewing
>instead of pointed teeth for tearing and cutting - and jaws with rotary
>motion for chewing instead of only vertical - and active glucokinase, too,
>instead of just hexokinase.
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>
Thanks. The hard part will be getting Cinder to eat the canned stuff.
She loves the dry food.

[jmc]

Suddenly, without warning, John Ross Mc Master exclaimed (3/26/2005 5:53
AM):
>>
>
> Thanks. The hard part will be getting Cinder to eat the canned stuff.
> She loves the dry food.

I have so far been unsuccessful switching Meep to a canned diet (she has
had one documented cystitis attack). Right now I try to feed her 1/3 to
1/2 tin per night, and don't top off her dry when I do (she gets dry in
the am, 1/2 the daily recommended amount), but often she tells me that's
*not* food in her bowl, and apparently would rather starve than eat the
stuff. I've tried a variety of brands, have yet to find one she'll
consistently eat. My search is complicated by the fact that she' almost
9 now, and tends toward gaining weight, so I'm trying to find a light or
senior food she'll eat consistently.

I have more luck with just regular food, but still nothing I'm sure
she'll eat. I'd welcome any suggestions on how I could get Meep to
consistently eat canned...

jmc

[CatNipped]

"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...

> If cats were meant to eat dry food, they'd have fissured crowns for
chewing
> instead of pointed teeth for tearing and cutting - and jaws with rotary
> motion for chewing instead of only vertical - and active glucokinase, too,
> instead of just hexokinase.
>
> Phil

This reminded me of the way the teeth marks in my finger from Bandit's bite
look. Each puncture is a three-sided star, so, even though it's not
noticeable when you're looking at them, cats' teeth are serrated
*vertically* rather than horizontally like a human's are.

Hugs,

CatNipped

[CatNipped]

"jmc" > wrote in message
...

> stuff. I've tried a variety of brands, have yet to find one she'll
> consistently eat. My search is complicated by the fact that she' almost
> 9 now, and tends toward gaining weight, so I'm trying to find a light or
> senior food she'll eat consistently.

Yep, that's the trick. When Bandit was very ill and had lost a lot of blood
and tissue, I was only concerned with getting some calories down her throat.
I tried *everything* - all brands of premium canned cat food, baby food (no
onions), canned chicken, albacore, sardines, crab, shrimp, etc. Know the
only thing she would eat? Fancy Feast!!!! Junk food for cats! ;> Now
that she's better it's hard to get her back on the good stuff (or rather the
stuff that's good for her).

Hugs,

CatNipped

> I have more luck with just regular food, but still nothing I'm sure
> she'll eat. I'd welcome any suggestions on how I could get Meep to
> consistently eat canned...
>
> jmc
>

[Phil P.]

"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> > If cats were meant to eat dry food, they'd have fissured crowns for
> chewing
> > instead of pointed teeth for tearing and cutting - and jaws with rotary
> > motion for chewing instead of only vertical - and active glucokinase,
too,
> > instead of just hexokinase.
> >
> > Phil
>
> This reminded me of the way the teeth marks in my finger from Bandit's
bite
> look. Each puncture is a three-sided star, so, even though it's not
> noticeable when you're looking at them, cats' teeth are serrated
> *vertically* rather than horizontally like a human's are.

Cat bites are more dangerous than dog bites because their teeth can actually
penetrate bones and cause infections inside the bone - dogs can't even
though they can exert more biting force (~250-400 psi) than a cat (~200 psi
at the tips of the canines). Humans can also acquire meningitis and septic
arthritis from cat bites.

Here's a good picture of the cat's teeth and jaw hinge (condyloid process)

http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary/Mandible-right-medial_view.jpg

See the hinge (condyloid process)? Its shaped like a bar so the cat's jaw
can only move up and down and can't wobble side-to-side while she's subduing
a struggling mouse. It concentrates all the pressure (200 psi) in one
direction and is the reason why cats *don't* chew - as in mastication.
Humans' hinges are shaped more like an egg so the jaw rotates for chewing.

For a dry food to have any dental benefit, the pieces must be large enough
for the teeth to sink all the way down to the gum line - since that's where
all the problems start - and hard, but not brittle so they don't shatter
when the cat bites into them. There're only 2 dry foods for cats that do
any good and even the little benefit they provide don't offset the
disadvantages.

Phil

[Phil P.]

"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > stuff. I've tried a variety of brands, have yet to find one she'll
> > consistently eat. My search is complicated by the fact that she' almost
> > 9 now, and tends toward gaining weight, so I'm trying to find a light or
> > senior food she'll eat consistently.
>
> Yep, that's the trick. When Bandit was very ill and had lost a lot of
blood
> and tissue, I was only concerned with getting some calories down her
throat.
> I tried *everything* - all brands of premium canned cat food, baby food
(no
> onions), canned chicken, albacore, sardines, crab, shrimp, etc. Know the
> only thing she would eat? Fancy Feast!!!! Junk food for cats! ;>

I have a surprise for you! The "Grilled" line (Chicken Feast in Gravy and
Turkey Feast in Gravy and Sliced Beef and Minced Beef are actually very
*good* foods! 59.4% protein (DMB) and excellent phosphorus content of 0.84%
(DMB)! ...and they're USDA meats! I know, I know, I was floored, too, when
I got the information.

Here's another shocker - Friskies Sliced Gourmet Grilled is another *good*
one! 53.7% protein (DMB) and 0.80 Phosphorus (DMB)!

It looks like the food has improved drastically since the Purina takeover.
So don't feel 'guilty' or worry if she'll only eat Fancy Feast.

Phil

[CatNipped]

"Phil P." > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "jmc" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > stuff. I've tried a variety of brands, have yet to find one she'll
> > > consistently eat. My search is complicated by the fact that she'
almost
> > > 9 now, and tends toward gaining weight, so I'm trying to find a light
or
> > > senior food she'll eat consistently.
> >
> > Yep, that's the trick. When Bandit was very ill and had lost a lot of
> blood
> > and tissue, I was only concerned with getting some calories down her
> throat.
> > I tried *everything* - all brands of premium canned cat food, baby food
> (no
> > onions), canned chicken, albacore, sardines, crab, shrimp, etc. Know
the
> > only thing she would eat? Fancy Feast!!!! Junk food for cats! ;>
>
> I have a surprise for you! The "Grilled" line (Chicken Feast in Gravy and
> Turkey Feast in Gravy and Sliced Beef and Minced Beef are actually very
> *good* foods! 59.4% protein (DMB) and excellent phosphorus content of
0.84%
> (DMB)! ...and they're USDA meats! I know, I know, I was floored, too,
when
> I got the information.
>
> Here's another shocker - Friskies Sliced Gourmet Grilled is another *good*
> one! 53.7% protein (DMB) and 0.80 Phosphorus (DMB)!
>
> It looks like the food has improved drastically since the Purina takeover.
> So don't feel 'guilty' or worry if she'll only eat Fancy Feast.
>
> Phil

Well, I should have qualified that. The only kind of food she would eat is
the Fancy Feast "Cod (and something else)". Much lower in protein and much
higher in phosphates (as are most of the seafood "flavors").

Hugs,

CatNipped

[CatNipped]

"Phil P." > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Phil P." > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >
> > > If cats were meant to eat dry food, they'd have fissured crowns for
> > chewing
> > > instead of pointed teeth for tearing and cutting - and jaws with
rotary
> > > motion for chewing instead of only vertical - and active glucokinase,
> too,
> > > instead of just hexokinase.
> > >
> > > Phil
> >
> > This reminded me of the way the teeth marks in my finger from Bandit's
> bite
> > look. Each puncture is a three-sided star, so, even though it's not
> > noticeable when you're looking at them, cats' teeth are serrated
> > *vertically* rather than horizontally like a human's are.
>
> Cat bites are more dangerous than dog bites because their teeth can
actually
> penetrate bones and cause infections inside the bone - dogs can't even
> though they can exert more biting force (~250-400 psi) than a cat (~200
psi
> at the tips of the canines). Humans can also acquire meningitis and
septic
> arthritis from cat bites.

Yep. And Bandit caught me right in the joint of the first knuckle of the
middle finger of my right hand. Which is why I didn't fool around with it.
The only bite that is more likely to cause infection is a human bite. I
immediately got Augmentin to start taking and then went and got a tetanus
shot the next day.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> Here's a good picture of the cat's teeth and jaw hinge (condyloid process)
>
> http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary/Mandible-right-medial_view.jpg
>
> See the hinge (condyloid process)? Its shaped like a bar so the cat's jaw
> can only move up and down and can't wobble side-to-side while she's
subduing
> a struggling mouse. It concentrates all the pressure (200 psi) in one
> direction and is the reason why cats *don't* chew - as in mastication.
> Humans' hinges are shaped more like an egg so the jaw rotates for chewing.
>
> For a dry food to have any dental benefit, the pieces must be large enough
> for the teeth to sink all the way down to the gum line - since that's
where
> all the problems start - and hard, but not brittle so they don't shatter
> when the cat bites into them. There're only 2 dry foods for cats that do
> any good and even the little benefit they provide don't offset the
> disadvantages.
>
> Phil
>
>
>

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2005-03-25, Mary penned:
>
> "Phil P." > wrote
>
>> The most significant step you can take is switching her over to a
>> canned food while she's still young. Most canned foods contain a lot
>> less carbohydrates than dry foods. In cats, excess carbs are the
>> problem - not fat.
>>
>> I have successfully weaned several diabetic cats off insulin by
>> feeding them canned food only.
>
> Holy crap, Phil, that is fabulous!
>

Just to add to this, when I asked my vet about dry vs. wet, she also said she
has gotten several of her diabetic patients off of insulin by feeding them
only canned.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

[Rhonda]

One thing -- watch her weight. Over-weight (or "big-boned") cats can be
predisposed. On the feline diabetes group, a large percentage of
diabetic cats are maine coons, one of the biggest breeds!

Also, be careful of any steroid treatment. Our overweight, maine
coon-mix cat had one steroid shot, and voila, the nightmare began.

Rhonda

John Ross Mc Master wrote:

> I have a healthy, sleek 7 month old cat eating Hill's Science Diet dry
> kibble. She also eats the occasional table scrap-fish and meat. Cinder
> is in great shape now!
> I'm after advice for her future diet. I want to prevent problems from
> ever happening in the future. What should I feed her in the future to
> prevent diabetes and other problems from ever happening in the first
> place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
>