OTish - Siobhan update & question

[Yowie]

Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl with
a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded to
chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options. I
don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and surgery
are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the cancer but
in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or worse, rendering
her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible choice.

As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly begin
to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can already see
the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley so common in
such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what small capacity I
can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them, because I am always
left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign aweful like that
might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its the least I can do

Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
fading.

This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject line
is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to find
the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the pyretherin flea
poison he has used generously around the house is the cause of Siobhan's
tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous cells started about
3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got their cat and the fleas
that came with her - and Michael has found a link between pyretherin and
childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to scrub every single
surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin. Since the last
application was in December last year, I personally think that the
pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and not be
presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's need to find
something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the house' is probably a
perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt to 'cure' his daughter
by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to find some scientific facts
to show that scrubbing the every surface of the house (including the
ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know where to look? (and yes,
I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone might happen to have the
information more easily at hand)

I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from top
to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
outlet that might help *him* cope.

Yowie

[Granby]

Scrubbing the house may only "help" relieve some stress. They will look for
a reason and probably find none. We can all ask our vets about this and if
we get any kind of consensus, some of these collage places that do research
might be of value.

This is beyond horrible......................
"Yowie" > wrote in message
...
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options.
> I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
>
> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> Yowie
>

[Outsider]

"Yowie" > wrote in
:


> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the
> subject line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or
> know how to find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced
> that the pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the
> house is the cause of Siobhan's tumour


Pyrethrin breaks down very rapidly. That combined with the low action it
has on Mammals is why it is so widely used. I am sure anything is possible
but I would doubt it would be carcinogenic in that way.

[Suz]

On Feb 19, 6:07�pm, "Granby" > wrote:
> Scrubbing the house may only "help" relieve some stress. �They will look for
> a reason and probably find none. �We can all ask our vets about this and if
> we get any kind of consensus, some of these collage places that do research
> might be of value.
>
> This is beyond horrible......................"Yowie" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> > with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> > to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> > operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> > less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> > about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> > the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options..
> > I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> > therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> > life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> > surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> > cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> > worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> > choice.
>
> > As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> > begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> > already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> > so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> > small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> > because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> > aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> > the least I can do
>
> > Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> > fading.
>
> > This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> > line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> > find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> > pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> > cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> > cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> > their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> > between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> > scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> > Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> > that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> > not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> > need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> > house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> > to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> > find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> > house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> > where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> > might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> > I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> > top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> > cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> > the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> > outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> > Yowie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Purrs for this family and for you too. Her Father is probably felling
powerless and as Granby said needs to do "something". The death of a
child is so unfair and impossible to rationalize.

Suz&Spicey

[jmcquown[_2_]]

"Yowie" > wrote in message
...
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options.
> I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
>
> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> Yowie
From what I understand, parents in such tragic situations do try to find
something (or sadly, someone) to blame. His scrubbing the house may be
cathartic but it won't change anything and inside I'm sure he knows this. I
wouldn't try to stop him, but the counsellor probably should be made aware
(somehow) he's reacting this way if he/she doesn't know already. Purrs for
everyone involved. It's so very sad.

Jill

[jofirey]

Scrubbing the house isn't hurting anyone. And I understand his need to do
something. Its rough if that means he feels he or even the cat is somehow
to blame. But he is going to feel like its his 'fault' somehow no matter
what.

As for talking to them. Remember, it isn't so much anything you can say to
them is going to help. But being there as much as you can manage and being
able to let them talk to you is invaluable. Its also a whole lot harder to
do than we sometimes realize.

Jo


"Yowie" > wrote in message
...
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options.
> I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
>
> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> Yowie
>

[Granby]

My husband was really sick a month before he died. The people I remember
most are the ones who let me talk and didn't try to change my mind about
everything I said. He has that, can't think of the right name, flesh eating
disease and was a bad diabetic. I remember saying "I should Have" the ones
I remember most never said things like, there was nothing you could do, or
it isn't your fault, they just let me say what I wanted and held me when I
cried. That is what I do for others.
"jofirey" > wrote in message
...
> Scrubbing the house isn't hurting anyone. And I understand his need to do
> something. Its rough if that means he feels he or even the cat is somehow
> to blame. But he is going to feel like its his 'fault' somehow no matter
> what.
>
> As for talking to them. Remember, it isn't so much anything you can say
> to them is going to help. But being there as much as you can manage and
> being able to let them talk to you is invaluable. Its also a whole lot
> harder to do than we sometimes realize.
>
> Jo
>
>
> "Yowie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
>> with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not
>> responded to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She
>> had another operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the
>> prognosis is looking less and less hopeful. her parents have been told
>> that she probably has about 2 years to live if things continue the way
>> they do. Chemotherapy was the least worst option, radiation and surgery
>> were 'higher risk' options. I don't know whether her parents will choose
>> to try either or both those therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without
>> making what is left of her life full of discomfort and misery. The risks
>> with radiotherapy and surgery are more profound, with the distinct
>> possibility of removing the cancer but in the process killing the
>> personality that is Siobhan, or worse, rendering her a little more than a
>> vegetable. What a horrible choice.
>>
>> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
>> begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
>> already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is
>> unfortuantley so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for
>> them in what small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to
>> talk to them, because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified
>> that somethign aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my
>> support and its the least I can do
>>
>> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
>> fading.
>>
>> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
>> line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how
>> to find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
>> pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
>> cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the
>> cancerous cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when
>> they got their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has
>> found a link between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it
>> is necessary to scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of
>> the pyretherin. Since the last application was in December last year, I
>> personally think that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via
>> UV degredation) and not be presenting any danger. I realise
>> (intelectually) that Michael's need to find something to 'blame' and to
>> 'scrub every surface of the house' is probably a perfectly understandable
>> irration reaction to atempt to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the
>> cause', but I would like to find some scientific facts to show that
>> scrubbing the every surface of the house (including the ceiling) is a
>> waste of his time. Would anyone know where to look? (and yes, I know I'm
>> a chemist.... just hoping someone might happen to have the information
>> more easily at hand)
>>
>> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
>> top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
>> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone
>> in the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is
>> an outlet that might help *him* cope.
>>
>> Yowie
>>
>
>

[Joy]

Purrs and prayers for Siobhan, her family and friends of the family
(obviously including you).

--
Joy

Don't believe everything you think

"Yowie" > wrote in message
...
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options.
> I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
>
> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> Yowie
>

[Adrian[_2_]]

Yowie wrote:
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.

Purrs on the way, this is so upsetting. :-(
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

[Jack Campin - bogus address]

> Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the pyretherin flea poison
> he has used generously around the house is the cause of Siobhan's tumour.
> Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous cells started about 3
> years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got their cat and the fleas
> that came with her - and Michael has found a link between pyretherin and
> childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to scrub every single
> surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin. Since the last
> application was in December last year, I personally think that the
> pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and not be
> presenting any danger.

I think you're largely right, if the figure I get from Googling is on
the mark - 20% degradation per year in stored powder. You'd expect the
stuff to degrade much faster out in the open after use.

Pyrethrin is toxic to cats anyway. I once treated Mingus with it, not
knowing any better - it knocked him unconscious for a couple of hours.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

[Gracecat]

On Feb 19, 5:57*pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> "Yowie" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
> > with a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded
> > to chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> > operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> > less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> > about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> > the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options..
> > I don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> > therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> > life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
> > surgery are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the
> > cancer but in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or
> > worse, rendering her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible
> > choice.
>
> > As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
> > begin to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can
> > already see the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley
> > so common in such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what
> > small capacity I can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them,
> > because I am always left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign
> > aweful like that might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its
> > the least I can do
>
> > Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> > fading.
>
> > This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
> > line is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to
> > find the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the
> > pyretherin flea poison he has used generously around the house is the
> > cause of Siobhan's tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous
> > cells started about 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got
> > their cat and the fleas that came with her - and Michael has found a link
> > between pyretherin and childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to
> > scrub every single surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin.
> > Since the last application was in December last year, I personally think
> > that the pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and
> > not be presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's
> > need to find something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the
> > house' is probably a perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt
> > to 'cure' his daughter by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to
> > find some scientific facts to show that scrubbing the every surface of the
> > house (including the ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know
> > where to look? (and yes, I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone
> > might happen to have the information more easily at hand)
>
> > I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
> > top to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> > cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> > the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> > outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> > Yowie
>
> From what I understand, parents in such tragic situations do try to find
> something (or sadly, someone) to blame. *His scrubbing the house may be
> cathartic but it won't change anything and inside I'm sure he knows this. *I
> wouldn't try to stop him, but the counsellor probably should be made aware
> (somehow) he's reacting this way if he/she doesn't know already. *Purrs for
> everyone involved. *It's so very sad.
>
> Jill- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I find this to be true at one point or another. It may take years
before the blame game begins. Grief and it's stages are not linear. As
far as someone letting the counselor know, We went to a trained grief
counselor. She was hyper aware of our reactions even if we were both
adament we were not acting that way. (At this time it was anger. We
both did not have even an ounce of anger to begin with. Later.... I'm
having difficulty with being in the presence of some family members
and it's been over three years and a recent development) Maybe if
someone wants to point it out to the counselor, that's helpful but
it's like pointing out to a doctor your throat hurts after tonsils
have been removed. It doesn't matter what way you display a certain
action, but it will be done.

Sadly, I think this man is going to do what we were warned not to do.
That's "Shrine Behavior". My mother has her little Eve shrine, a small
shelf that has a couple photos and little trinkets. I have my trinkets
to, but they're scattered everywhere... a duck in the bedroom, my
lipstick she played with in my make-up case... Mom fanatically visited
the cemetery weekly. To the point Jody was bullnosed into adding dirt
to a low spot on the grave Christmas Eve because it was wet and she
didn't want Eve sitting in water. That's dangerous. That's something
I'd watch for when the time comes Yowie. Knowing it's coming I'm not
sure, I'm not trained, but I'd give a pretty good guess he's going to
start displaying similar behavior to this. It depends on the next
couple weeks, if he "runs out of steam" cleaning the house. I'd say
cleaning is the absolute best thing he can do. Because at the end of
the day, when the house is clean, and everything has been scrubbed....
nothing has changed. It's going to force him to face the inevitable.

As far as the marriage. They're stressed, extremely so. It doesn't
matter if it's finances, building a house, having a baby, burying a
parent, being laid off. You know marriages crack during stress. ;) I
wouldn't give up on them yet. Everybody I know in my local area, that
I know personally... The only two couples that I can say absolutely
yes, they divorced after a child's death was my high school ex-
boyfriend's father's first marriage (he had four), and Jody's uncle
(he's on his second) and that was decades ago. It's still true,
couples either make it, or they don't. But I'll tell you, even with
our divorce rate being so high in this decade personally I only see
people from my father's generation that are still saying "you'll make
it or you won't and chances are you won't". Many couples in their
thirties are making it, more than they used to be. I'd like to say
that's due to the increase in recognition that depression is real and
treatable, antidepressants are an honest drug and counselling isn't so
terrible. If they support one another, even when they don't agree
with how their partner may be reacting to their daughter's illness,
that's the important thing. I never felt angry towards Jody because of
Eve's death. But I've spent a few grumpy off nights because I'm boo-
hooing at 2am and he's snoring oblivious to my grief. Most of the time
he'll wake up and pat me until I calm down. But then he snores again.
Typical male.

*huggles* I'll keep Siobhan in my prayers.

[Stormmee]

my gut says let him scrub, and help him do research later about if he needs
to, Lee
Yowie > wrote in message
...
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl
with
> a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded to
> chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options.
I
> don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and
surgery
> are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the cancer
but
> in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or worse,
rendering
> her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly
begin
> to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can already see
> the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley so common
in
> such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what small capacity
I
> can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them, because I am
always
> left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign aweful like that
> might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
>
> This is somewhat slightly on topic part: The question up in the subject
line
> is a difficult one, but hoping that someone might know or know how to find
> the answer. Michael (Siobhan's father) is convinced that the pyretherin
flea
> poison he has used generously around the house is the cause of Siobhan's
> tumour. Apprantly the doctor's think that the cancerous cells started
about
> 3 years ago, and about 3 years ago is when they got their cat and the
fleas
> that came with her - and Michael has found a link between pyretherin and
> childhood brain cancer. He feels it is necessary to scrub every single
> surface of their house to get rid of the pyretherin. Since the last
> application was in December last year, I personally think that the
> pyretherin would have broken down by now (via UV degredation) and not be
> presenting any danger. I realise (intelectually) that Michael's need to
find
> something to 'blame' and to 'scrub every surface of the house' is probably
a
> perfectly understandable irration reaction to atempt to 'cure' his
daughter
> by eradicating 'the cause', but I would like to find some scientific facts
> to show that scrubbing the every surface of the house (including the
> ceiling) is a waste of his time. Would anyone know where to look? (and
yes,
> I know I'm a chemist.... just hoping someone might happen to have the
> information more easily at hand)
>
> I wonder, perhaps though, that if he feels that scrubbing the house from
top
> to bottom might help, then maybe I should just let him. He's clearly
> cracking up a bit (not that I blame him, I would too. And yes, everyone in
> the family is receivign councelling) and maybe scrubbing the house is an
> outlet that might help *him* cope.
>
> Yowie
>
>

[polonca12000]

Yowie wrote:
> Siobhan is the 'girlfriend' of The Yowlet, and is also the little girl with
> a brain tumour. I'm sorry to report that the cancer has not responded to
> chemotherapy and doubled in size in the last 6 months. She had another
> operation yesterday to relieve the pressure, but the prognosis is looking
> less and less hopeful. her parents have been told that she probably has
> about 2 years to live if things continue the way they do. Chemotherapy was
> the least worst option, radiation and surgery were 'higher risk' options. I
> don't know whether her parents will choose to try either or both those
> therapies or decide to let Siobhan go without making what is left of her
> life full of discomfort and misery. The risks with radiotherapy and surgery
> are more profound, with the distinct possibility of removing the cancer but
> in the process killing the personality that is Siobhan, or worse, rendering
> her a little more than a vegetable. What a horrible choice.
>
> As a friend to the whole family, its aweful to watch, I can't possibly begin
> to imagine what its like to be her Mum, Dad or brother. I can already see
> the marriage cracking under the strain, which is unfortuantley so common in
> such cases. Best I can do is just be there for them in what small capacity I
> can be. Most of the time I don't *want* to talk to them, because I am always
> left feeling sad for them and terrified that somethign aweful like that
> might happen to Cary, but they need my support and its the least I can do
>
> Purrs & prayers for a miracle would still be welcome, although hope is
> fading.
<snip>
> Yowie


Lots and lots of purrs for a miracle,
Polonca and Soncek