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KenK
May 17th 10, 05:45 PM
My cat Emily's BMs have greatly improved to perfectly normal since her diet
change to canned Wellness - no more diarrhea, soft ones, or horrible
smells. Hope it lasts. But now she's started getting hairballs (at least
I'm pretty sure it's hairballs) every day. Maybe the Wellness has less
fiber or something than Fancy Feast which I used to feed her. Once in a
while she hacks up a lot of liquid too. Big mess to clean up, almost as bad
as vomit. <sigh> I'm trying adding a half teaspoon fiber to her food spread
over three meals; that used to help. Read that in one of my cat books. I
groom her every day, as I have all her life (she's a short-hair). The fiber
sure works for me; I've taken two generous doses a day for decades and
hardly ever get hairballs!

Any other hairball treatments you've successfully tried if this doesn't
work? Preferably something I can put in her food; giving her medications is
very difficult to say the least!


--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

---MIKE---
May 17th 10, 07:24 PM
Try planting some oat grass for her to nibble on.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Rene
May 17th 10, 07:43 PM
Ken,

Sorry to sound gross, but are you seeing hair clumps when you clean up
the vomit? It would look like a clump/lump, usually cigar shaped.
Seems unusual to me that she would get hairballs if you brush her
daily. Doing this daily doesn't sound good--you might call your vet's
office and ask. If she were doing this weekly, I wouldn't worry, but
daily is not normal IMO.

Your comment about more hairballs since starting Wellness is curious.
Since my cats have been on canned Wellness (and some Evo), we've had
fewer hairballs.

You can try and add a teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin to her food and
mix that in. (Some cats like pumpkin and will eat it as a treat.) If
she's currently experiencing hairballs, you can give her Petromalt or
other hairball remedy for a few days (don't give near her feeding
time. It will reduce absorption of nutrients.)

Rene

KenK
May 18th 10, 06:38 PM
(---MIKE---) wrote in news:25693-4BF189F6-70
@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net:

> Try planting some oat grass for her to nibble on.
>

I unsuccessfully tried that once before but she wouldn't eat any. If the
pumpkin and fiber fail to help I'll try it again. It will take a few weeks
to grow.



--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

KenK
May 18th 10, 06:45 PM
Rene > wrote in news:66426a03-532f-4a7e-931b-
:

> Sorry to sound gross, but are you seeing hair clumps when you clean up
> the vomit? It would look like a clump/lump, usually cigar shaped.

Yes, usually. But smaller - about the size of a cigarette.

> Seems unusual to me that she would get hairballs if you brush her
> daily. Doing this daily doesn't sound good--you might call your vet's
> office and ask. If she were doing this weekly, I wouldn't worry, but
> daily is not normal IMO.

We'll see if my other things work. She seems otherwise normal.

> Your comment about more hairballs since starting Wellness is curious.
> Since my cats have been on canned Wellness (and some Evo), we've had
> fewer hairballs.
>
> You can try and add a teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin to her food and
> mix that in. (Some cats like pumpkin and will eat it as a treat.)

I just tried a tea-spoonfull in her food dish. She wouldn't even taste
it. I'll try mixing it with her food later. (I'll bet she won't eat it!)

That pumpkin was very hard to find. I finally found a large can in the
third store I tried. $3! <sigh> Better work!

> If
> she's currently experiencing hairballs, you can give her Petromalt or
> other hairball remedy for a few days (don't give near her feeding
> time. It will reduce absorption of nutrients.)
>

We'll see how the pumpkin works first. I suspect the pumpkin is just for
fiber and the unflavored Metamucil clone I've been using is much the same
thing.

Ken




--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

cshenk
May 18th 10, 10:02 PM
"KenK" wrote

> Any other hairball treatments you've successfully tried if this doesn't
> work? Preferably something I can put in her food; giving her medications
> is
> very difficult to say the least!

KenK, what works for mine and is gentle with no harm, is to add extra fat to
my cats diet. I've normally had up to 4 cats at a time for many years and
this works better for long term use than those tubes (which are essentially
seeming to me to be exlax for cats). Some cats it doesn't work as well with
if animal based fats but I've not had a problem yet with a little olive oil
added. It doesn't cause diarrhea or any absorption problems but does seem
to 'speed the hairball along' so it becomes part of the kitty litter
leavings ;-)

Do run this by your vet, especially if yours is allergy prone (a situation
I've never had).

Fats I have used: Rendered generally, chicken, pork, beef, fish oils, olive
oil, duck, and butter (melted and you make ghee which is clarified butter).

---MIKE---
May 18th 10, 11:17 PM
KenK wrote:

>It will take a few weeks to grow. >(referring to oat grass)

I am constantly growing oat grass and find it only takes one week. I
water it twice daily and grow it by a window.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Rene S.
May 19th 10, 02:25 AM
> That pumpkin was very hard to find. I finally found a large can in the
> third store I tried. $3! <sigh> Better work!
>

I should have mentioned that it might be harder to find. I had heard
that canned pumpkin will not be as plentiful this year, due to rain/
rotting of crops in the fields. :-/

KenK
May 19th 10, 06:27 PM
(---MIKE---) wrote in news:12289-4BF311FA-157
@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net:

> KenK wrote:
>
>>It will take a few weeks to grow. >(referring to oat grass)
>
> I am constantly growing oat grass and find it only takes one week. I
> water it twice daily and grow it by a window.
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>

I picked up a package of cat grass (uses oats) at Walmart this morning
and started it. If she eats it I'll find a source for whole oats and do
my own.



--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

KenK
May 19th 10, 06:37 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in news:b466189c-2188-4be6-
:

> I should have mentioned that it might be harder to find. I had heard
> that canned pumpkin will not be as plentiful this year, due to rain/
> rotting of crops in the fields. :-/
>

Yeah. I heard that last fall. I'm making up teaspoon portions of the
large can and freezing them. It'll probably only stay eatable in the
refrigerator for four or five days.

For the first time since I switched her to Wellness she has had a semi-
soft very smelly BM this AM. The pumpkin? That's the only thing I've
changed in her diet. The pumpkin seems to be working for her hairballs,
if that's what she has - for the first time since 5/14 she didn't vomit
last night. Amazing that a little bit (one teaspoon in one meal at noon
yesterday) would be that effective. Or co-incidence? If it continues to
work, I wonder how long should I add it to her food? My cat books don't
say. Forever? Until three or four days of no vomiting?

--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

KenK
May 19th 10, 06:42 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in
:

> "KenK" wrote
>
>> Any other hairball treatments you've successfully tried if this
>> doesn't work? Preferably something I can put in her food; giving her
>> medications is
>> very difficult to say the least!
>
> KenK, what works for mine and is gentle with no harm, is to add extra
> fat to my cats diet. I've normally had up to 4 cats at a time for
> many years and this works better for long term use than those tubes
> (which are essentially seeming to me to be exlax for cats). Some cats
> it doesn't work as well with if animal based fats but I've not had a
> problem yet with a little olive oil added. It doesn't cause diarrhea
> or any absorption problems but does seem to 'speed the hairball along'
> so it becomes part of the kitty litter leavings ;-)
>
> Do run this by your vet, especially if yours is allergy prone (a
> situation I've never had).
>
> Fats I have used: Rendered generally, chicken, pork, beef, fish oils,
> olive oil, duck, and butter (melted and you make ghee which is
> clarified butter).

Interesting. I've not seen this in any of the cat books. She doesn't like
fiber or pumpkin and tries her best to eat around them. But I suspect
she'd love olive oil (only oil I use). Pumpkin may be affecting her BMs
too. I'll know better after using it a few days, then stopping it.

How much oil do you use? Say 1/2 tsp. per ounce of food?



--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

---MIKE---
May 19th 10, 07:11 PM
KenK wrote:

>I picked up a package of cat grass (uses
> oats) at Walmart this morning and
> started it. If she eats it I'll find a source
> for whole oats and do my own.

I bought a 50 pound bag of oat seeds for $8.00 at a feed store. I use
lawn soil for the base and cover the seeds with Miracle Grow. The soil
costs more than the seed! I have four pots in various stages at all
times - two of them on the floor for the cats to nibble on.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

cshenk
May 19th 10, 10:18 PM
"KenK" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote

>> KenK, what works for mine and is gentle with no harm, is to add extra
>> fat to my cats diet.

>> Do run this by your vet, especially if yours is allergy prone (a
>> situation I've never had).

>> Fats I have used: Rendered generally, chicken, pork, beef, fish oils,
>> olive oil, duck, and butter (melted and you make ghee which is
>> clarified butter).

> Interesting. I've not seen this in any of the cat books. She doesn't like
> fiber or pumpkin and tries her best to eat around them. But I suspect
> she'd love olive oil (only oil I use). Pumpkin may be affecting her BMs
> too. I'll know better after using it a few days, then stopping it.

Yes, and I've seen the added fiber one listed. Mostly I was already adding
fiber and not getting effective levels so tried fat (was actually dealing
with some coat issues and thought that would help then found the furballs
went away).

> How much oil do you use? Say 1/2 tsp. per ounce of food?

Yup! Also, forgot to mention but this is all 'clean fat' meaning it didn't
come off a salty spicy chicken being baked etc. Current Cat Daisy loves the
olive oil best of all (she's a bit touched in the head). Dog doesn't so
much like it so he'll get pork fat.

I do a lot of Crockpot cooking. A favored recipe is southern pulled BBQ.
You can slow roast it in the oven for 7-8 hours but it works just as well
overnight in a Crockpot. Real simple. Rendered fat for the pets is a side
product.

Place frozen pork shoulder (fat cap side up) in Crockpot (depending where
you are it may be called a slow cooker). Add nothing else. Turn on low and
walk away. Flip when you happen to think about it but not really needed.
Check after 12 hours. If it's trying to fall apart, it's ready. Carefully
remove meat and decant the juices. (Free fat and under it broth, no salt or
nasties added to mess with the pets). Add meat back in (deboning if
desired) and shred with 2 forks then add seasonings or BBQ sauce of choice.
Leave on low for up to 36 hours (can extend by fridging it at night if have
room). Freeze rest (with a larger family, there wont be any 'rest' to
freeze).

Hope you don't mind a recipe added but it's related to how to have lots of
cat (and dog) safe fat laying around. Just stick the liquids in a jar in the
fridge and you can as it congeals easily separate the broth out (the broth
will go bad if you don't but the fat alone will be fine in the fridge for a
very long time). I actually separate the 2 pretty much right away and
freeze the broth in 1/2 cup batches. Dog gets 1/2 cup minus cat portion of
3 TB or so for lunch 'noshe' which is a great way to get a cat to 'drink
more liquids'.

If any here have a Crockpot and want to learn some simple (and dirt cheap)
ways to make broths and stocks for pet feeding, let me know. In or case,
the extra fat is added to the nooner broth munchies the cat and dog both
get. Daisy prefers her fat still cold and fairly solid floating in her
broth which she laps up then licks the fat lump out of (olive oil will be
liquid of course). Cash prefers his be melted just barely but doesn't mind
a cold lump either.

KenK
May 20th 10, 05:45 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in
:

> "KenK" wrote
>> "cshenk" wrote
>
>>> KenK, what works for mine and is gentle with no harm, is to add
>>> extra fat to my cats diet.
>
>>> Do run this by your vet, especially if yours is allergy prone (a
>>> situation I've never had).
>
>>> Fats I have used: Rendered generally, chicken, pork, beef, fish
>>> oils, olive oil, duck, and butter (melted and you make ghee which is
>>> clarified butter).
>
>> Interesting. I've not seen this in any of the cat books. She doesn't
>> like fiber or pumpkin and tries her best to eat around them. But I
>> suspect she'd love olive oil (only oil I use). Pumpkin may be
>> affecting her BMs too. I'll know better after using it a few days,
>> then stopping it.
>
> Yes, and I've seen the added fiber one listed. Mostly I was already
> adding fiber and not getting effective levels so tried fat (was
> actually dealing with some coat issues and thought that would help
> then found the furballs went away).
>
>> How much oil do you use? Say 1/2 tsp. per ounce of food?
>
> Yup! Also, forgot to mention but this is all 'clean fat' meaning it
> didn't come off a salty spicy chicken being baked etc. Current Cat
> Daisy loves the olive oil best of all (she's a bit touched in the
> head). Dog doesn't so much like it so he'll get pork fat.
>
> I do a lot of Crockpot cooking. A favored recipe is southern pulled
> BBQ. You can slow roast it in the oven for 7-8 hours but it works just
> as well overnight in a Crockpot. Real simple. Rendered fat for the
> pets is a side product.
>
> Place frozen pork shoulder (fat cap side up) in Crockpot (depending
> where you are it may be called a slow cooker). Add nothing else.
> Turn on low and walk away. Flip when you happen to think about it but
> not really needed. Check after 12 hours. If it's trying to fall
> apart, it's ready. Carefully remove meat and decant the juices.
> (Free fat and under it broth, no salt or nasties added to mess with
> the pets). Add meat back in (deboning if desired) and shred with 2
> forks then add seasonings or BBQ sauce of choice. Leave on low for up
> to 36 hours (can extend by fridging it at night if have room). Freeze
> rest (with a larger family, there wont be any 'rest' to freeze).
>
> Hope you don't mind a recipe added but it's related to how to have
> lots of cat (and dog) safe fat laying around. Just stick the liquids
> in a jar in the fridge and you can as it congeals easily separate the
> broth out (the broth will go bad if you don't but the fat alone will
> be fine in the fridge for a very long time). I actually separate the
> 2 pretty much right away and freeze the broth in 1/2 cup batches. Dog
> gets 1/2 cup minus cat portion of 3 TB or so for lunch 'noshe' which
> is a great way to get a cat to 'drink more liquids'.
>
> If any here have a Crockpot and want to learn some simple (and dirt
> cheap) ways to make broths and stocks for pet feeding, let me know.
> In or case, the extra fat is added to the nooner broth munchies the
> cat and dog both get. Daisy prefers her fat still cold and fairly
> solid floating in her broth which she laps up then licks the fat lump
> out of (olive oil will be liquid of course). Cash prefers his be
> melted just barely but doesn't mind a cold lump either.
>
>

Thanks much for all the info. So far the pumpkin seems to be working. But
olive oil would be a lot better - I always have some on hand. I'm going
to see what Google says about pumpkin and hairballs; like how long to
give it to her. I suspect a few days, then once every few weeks,
whatever. But trying the oil is very tempting. But her digestive system
has gotten so touchy in her old age (14) I'm leery of trying almost
anything.


Ken


--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

cshenk
May 20th 10, 11:17 PM
"KenK" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote

>>>> KenK, what works for mine and is gentle with no harm, is to add
>>>> extra fat to my cats diet.
>>
>>>> Do run this by your vet, especially if yours is allergy prone (a
>>>> situation I've never had).

Just to let you know, several over the years have done this and with the
exception of one allergy prone kitty (warned off olive oil) they've all come
back to tell me their vet said it's harmless. Most young ones say it's
possibly beneficial and will be good for their coats. Several elderly vets
apparently laughed and said 'thats what we used to do along with a dose of
cream before all these fancy foods came out'.

Best guess is it's a very old time remedy. Pre WWII at the least.

>> I do a lot of Crockpot cooking. A favored recipe is southern pulled
>> BBQ. You can slow roast it in the oven for 7-8 hours but it works just
>> as well overnight in a Crockpot. Real simple. Rendered fat for the
>> pets is a side product.

Oh and use of the oven that way (7-8 hours) will cost about 5$ in my area.
Crockpot, about 25cents a day.

(omitted recipe)

>> If any here have a Crockpot and want to learn some simple (and dirt
>> cheap) ways to make broths and stocks for pet feeding, let me know.
>> In our case, the extra fat is added to the nooner broth munchies the
>> cat and dog both get.

> Thanks much for all the info.

No problem! Happy to bend your ear ;-)

> So far the pumpkin seems to be working.

Thats good! Both of my pets are on a relatively high fiber diet so adding
more there doesnt 'fix' anything.

> olive oil would be a lot better - I always have some on hand. I'm going
> to see what Google says about pumpkin and hairballs; like how long to
> give it to her. I suspect a few days, then once every few weeks,
> whatever. But trying the oil is very tempting. But her digestive system
> has gotten so touchy in her old age (14) I'm leery of trying almost
> anything.

Very wise KenK! As long as it works, don't tweak it! If the pumpkin starts
to not work so well, perhaps rice may work. I've normally used oil with a
fairly high fiber diet but with some cats, the oil alone worked (they didn't
like fiber foods/stuff added).

How is she on drinking water? If having problems there, salt free broth
often works wonders. I use dashi (a fish stock I used to make fresh but the
boxed version is just as good and about 3cents a 3/4 cup serving make if you
get the 15lb box). Just boil water and add granules to taste. Takes very
little, around 1/4 ts per serving. Cats like it stronger at 1/2 ts. I've
always advised folks run this by their vet too and so far the feedback has
been 'great trick to get a cat to drink' and my own vet took to it for his
own cats. For my vet, it's a late night noshe for his kitties and he's
crockpotting chicken bones like I do for salt free broth. He freezes it in
3/4 cup portions which works for his tribe. They get the same boxed dashi
when he's too lazy to remember to defrost a batch of frozen chicken bone
broth in time.

Since I mentioned it and this one is almost totally cat related, to make a
bone stock on the cheap, you use what you'd normally be throwing out. Bake
your whole chicken (or duck or other poultry) however your normally do and
enjoy. Next step is much less expensive with a Crockpot but you can use the
stove top.

Ok, take the carcass and if you used any salt or msg on the outside (or a
seasoning with that) remove all skin and toss it. If you used just butter
and a modicum of 'greenery' you can add the skin to the pot. Next, break up
all the bones (shreds of meat left in fine) somewhat then fill pot with
enough water to cover. Feel free to add any normal stock veggies if you
plan to want to use some for your own cooking (carrots, celery, parsnips are
common) except onion and add no salt please. Turn Crockpot on low and go to
bed. It's ready in the morning but will be even better if you are too busy
in the morning to deal with it so just leave it on low while at work.
(obviously you would never stovetop unattended all night or all day but
crockpots do that just fine). Decant crock over a colander with a larger
pot below. Toss the carcass and any veggies you may have added then tuck
the broth in the fridge. You can remove any visible fat before doing this
if you like or let it congeal on it's own but warning, this batch will be
'consomme' meaning it's going to gel when cold. It's full of goodies for
cats and people who need glucosamine and more calcium. If you want to
defat, you'll have to check it carefully in the fridge and catch just the
point where the fat congeals and the rest hasn't turned to gel. I usually
don't bother to do more than defat what's obvious and easy before making up
little freezer packs sized to our needs. When we use them for 2foot foods,
we add salt and such as we rewarm them. I call it making free food you like
out of something you'd normally toss out. So, broth feeding my pets is easy
stuff and having a gallon or more of bone broth at the ready, is normal
here. Oh, spare freezers come in real handy for this!