PDA

View Full Version : A sad movie of a cat trying to revive his friend run over by a car


Netmask[_2_]
July 17th 10, 01:37 AM
http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001

Gandalf[_2_]
July 17th 10, 04:04 AM
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:37:09 +1000, Netmask >
wrote:

>
>
>http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001

That is heartbreaking :(


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 100716-1, 07/16/2010
Tested on: 7/16/2010 10:04:49 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

jmc[_2_]
July 18th 10, 03:03 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>
>
> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001

And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death. How is
what this cat is doing any different than any human crying and holding a
deceased friend and crying, "Don't leave me!"?

As Gandalf said, heartbreaking.

jmc

Bill Graham
July 18th 10, 03:15 AM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>>
>>
>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>
> And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death.......

Only some religions say this.....Us atheists know better. One of our (older)
cats follows my wife around like a puppy dog. When she goes down to
California to visit her grandkids, he grieves and lives in her clothes
closet until she comes back. If she didn't make it back, I think he would
die there........

jmc[_2_]
July 18th 10, 03:40 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Bill Graham exclaimed (7/17/2010 10:15 PM):
>
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>
>> And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death.......
>
> Only some religions say this.....Us atheists know better. One of our
> (older) cats follows my wife around like a puppy dog. When she goes down
> to California to visit her grandkids, he grieves and lives in her
> clothes closet until she comes back. If she didn't make it back, I think
> he would die there........

Actually, my comment had nothing to do with religion at all, in fact I
don't believe this to be a subject divided along religious lines.

Meep follows me around like a puppydog as well, but over time has
realized that I always come back, and uses hubby as an alternate petting
machine when I'm gone. She bosses him around a lot more than I allow
her to do to me :)

jmc

Bill Graham
July 18th 10, 04:07 AM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Bill Graham exclaimed (7/17/2010 10:15 PM):
>>
>> "jmc" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>>
>>> And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death.......
>>
>> Only some religions say this.....Us atheists know better. One of our
>> (older) cats follows my wife around like a puppy dog. When she goes down
>> to California to visit her grandkids, he grieves and lives in her clothes
>> closet until she comes back. If she didn't make it back, I think he would
>> die there........
>
> Actually, my comment had nothing to do with religion at all, in fact I
> don't believe this to be a subject divided along religious lines.
>
> Meep follows me around like a puppydog as well, but over time has realized
> that I always come back, and uses hubby as an alternate petting machine
> when I'm gone. She bosses him around a lot more than I allow her to do to
> me :)
>
> jmc

Just defining what I think you mean by, "they". In my experience, the
religious set thinks only we humans have souls, and, (as a result) there are
no animals in heaven. They also tend to put animals down a lot, because
their God doesn't do much toward saving all those millions of little furry
creatures from freezing and starving to death every Winter. The atheistic
types, however, know that animals think, grieve, and feel pain, both
emotional and physical, just as we humans do, and that video shows it very
well.

August 4th 10, 03:32 AM
On Jul 17, 8:07*pm, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
> "jmc" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Suddenly, without warning, Bill Graham exclaimed (7/17/2010 10:15 PM):
>
> >> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>
> >>>>http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>
> >>> And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death.......
>
> >> Only some religions say this.....Us atheists know better. One of our
> >> (older) cats follows my wife around like a puppy dog. When she goes down
> >> to California to visit her grandkids, he grieves and lives in her clothes
> >> closet until she comes back. If she didn't make it back, I think he would
> >> die there........
>
> > Actually, my comment had nothing to do with religion at all, in fact I
> > don't believe this to be a subject divided along religious lines.
>
> > Meep follows me around like a puppydog as well, but over time has realized
> > that I always come back, and uses hubby as an alternate petting machine
> > when I'm gone. *She bosses him around a lot more than I allow her to do to
> > me :)
>
> > jmc
>
> Just defining what I think you mean by, "they". In my experience, the
> religious set thinks only we humans have souls, and, (as a result) there are
> no animals in heaven. They also tend to put animals down a lot, because
> their God doesn't do much toward saving all those millions of little furry
> creatures from freezing and starving to death every Winter. The atheistic
> types, however, know that animals think, grieve, and feel pain, both
> emotional and physical, just as we humans do, and that video shows it very
> well.

Years ago, my mom and I were discussing this as we are Christian, but
also believe that animals go to heaven. How could it be heaven
without them?

My mom suggested that animals were never kicked out of the garden,
therefore, they do not need a way into heaven.

As for soul, I think it really depends on definition. Animals clearly
demonstrate emotions and self-awareness. They can makes friends and
enemies, do good things and bad, etc. They just have a lower level of
thinking, such as a small child who understands a limited concept of
good and bad, but can't plan for the future and predict consequences.

We have always brought home our dead animals after they have been
euthanized. Not only do we bury them at home, but we believe that the
other animals should see them and understand as best they can what
happened. When my first cat, Fiona, died, my second cat was 9 years
old. He was not the brightest cat I have had, but was very sweet, and
was definitely best buddies with Fiona. He approached her the first
time, hissed, and ran away. He returned about 15 minutes later, and
purred for a long time. That night, he slept in her spot on top of me,
and did not do it again for almost a year.

I really believe this methods helps us all, as we can all grieve
together and comfort each other. Otherwise, they may wait months
before giving up and fully grieving, and by then, the people don't
understand what the problem is.

My last loss was Kira, 4 years ago this month. She hated Chase,
because he chased her (never name your cat Chase, huge mistake). After
she died, Chase was miserable. He grieved badly for her. We never
realized how much he loved her because he was always chasing her. But
he thought it was a game, so he lost his buddy. He has since moved on
to chasing somebody else, who also does not appreciate it. But it was
very hard for him for several months as he really greived a lot for
her.

Bill Graham
August 4th 10, 04:57 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Just defining what I think you mean by, "they". In my experience, the
>> religious set thinks only we humans have souls, and, (as a result) there
>> are no animals in heaven. They also tend to put animals down a lot,
>> because their God doesn't do much toward saving all those millions of
>> little furry creatures from freezing and starving to death every Winter.
>
> Sadly, God doesn't do much toward saving all those millions of humans who
> starve to death and die of disease every year either.


Yes.....Kind of makes you wonder just what he's doing with all that spare
time, doesn't it? Of course, one would never think that "He" doesn't exist
at all.........

MLB[_2_]
August 9th 10, 12:20 AM
wrote:
> On Jul 17, 8:07 pm, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
>> "jmc" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Suddenly, without warning, Bill Graham exclaimed (7/17/2010 10:15 PM):
>>>> "jmc" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Suddenly, without warning, Netmask exclaimed (7/16/2010 8:37 PM):
>>>>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>>>> And they say animals can't grieve, and don't understand death.......
>>>> Only some religions say this.....Us atheists know better. One of our
>>>> (older) cats follows my wife around like a puppy dog. When she goes down
>>>> to California to visit her grandkids, he grieves and lives in her clothes
>>>> closet until she comes back. If she didn't make it back, I think he would
>>>> die there........
>>> Actually, my comment had nothing to do with religion at all, in fact I
>>> don't believe this to be a subject divided along religious lines.
>>> Meep follows me around like a puppydog as well, but over time has realized
>>> that I always come back, and uses hubby as an alternate petting machine
>>> when I'm gone. She bosses him around a lot more than I allow her to do to
>>> me :)
>>> jmc
>> Just defining what I think you mean by, "they". In my experience, the
>> religious set thinks only we humans have souls, and, (as a result) there are
>> no animals in heaven. They also tend to put animals down a lot, because
>> their God doesn't do much toward saving all those millions of little furry
>> creatures from freezing and starving to death every Winter. The atheistic
>> types, however, know that animals think, grieve, and feel pain, both
>> emotional and physical, just as we humans do, and that video shows it very
>> well.
>
> Years ago, my mom and I were discussing this as we are Christian, but
> also believe that animals go to heaven. How could it be heaven
> without them?
>
> My mom suggested that animals were never kicked out of the garden,
> therefore, they do not need a way into heaven.
>
> As for soul, I think it really depends on definition. Animals clearly
> demonstrate emotions and self-awareness. They can makes friends and
> enemies, do good things and bad, etc. They just have a lower level of
> thinking, such as a small child who understands a limited concept of
> good and bad, but can't plan for the future and predict consequences.
>
> We have always brought home our dead animals after they have been
> euthanized. Not only do we bury them at home, but we believe that the
> other animals should see them and understand as best they can what
> happened. When my first cat, Fiona, died, my second cat was 9 years
> old. He was not the brightest cat I have had, but was very sweet, and
> was definitely best buddies with Fiona. He approached her the first
> time, hissed, and ran away. He returned about 15 minutes later, and
> purred for a long time. That night, he slept in her spot on top of me,
> and did not do it again for almost a year.
>
> I really believe this methods helps us all, as we can all grieve
> together and comfort each other. Otherwise, they may wait months
> before giving up and fully grieving, and by then, the people don't
> understand what the problem is.
>
> My last loss was Kira, 4 years ago this month. She hated Chase,
> because he chased her (never name your cat Chase, huge mistake). After
> she died, Chase was miserable. He grieved badly for her. We never
> realized how much he loved her because he was always chasing her. But
> he thought it was a game, so he lost his buddy. He has since moved on
> to chasing somebody else, who also does not appreciate it. But it was
> very hard for him for several months as he really greived a lot for
> her.
>


If you think the name "Chase" is part of the problem, why don't you
rename him? What do you think would be a suitable name that he would
like? MLB

August 9th 10, 07:35 AM
> If you think the name "Chase" is part of the problem, why don't you
> rename him? * What do you think would be a suitable name that he would
> like? *MLB

It was mostly a joke. We didn't realize when we named him that he was
going to be a hunter cat and that our other cats would be prey. But he
was a barn cat. We may have gotten him as a kitten, but he has very
strong hunting instincts from his parents. SO, I doubt any name would
have made a difference. He will be 10 years old next month, so this is
simply the way he is.

Aaron Eel (Ehrin)
August 18th 10, 02:14 AM
On Jul 16, 8:37*pm, Netmask > wrote:
> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001

No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
your political agenda, of course :)


Ehrin

Cheryl[_3_]
August 18th 10, 04:23 AM
"Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
...
> On Jul 16, 8:37 pm, Netmask > wrote:
>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>
> No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
> matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
> MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
> because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
> marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
> your political agenda, of course :)

I think I tend to agree. Along with cats, I also keep pet mice. Mice have
short lives and when one dies, the others, or maybe just the alpha, buries
the dead in the bedding. I don't think it is to honor the dead, but to try
to conceal the smell. Of course I will remove the dead as soon as I check
on them when I get home from work.

Patok[_2_]
August 18th 10, 04:38 AM
Cheryl wrote:
> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Jul 16, 8:37 pm, Netmask > wrote:
>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>
>> No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
>> matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
>> MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
>> because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
>> marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
>> your political agenda, of course :)
>
> I think I tend to agree. Along with cats, I also keep pet mice. Mice
> have short lives and when one dies, the others, or maybe just the alpha,
> buries the dead in the bedding. I don't think it is to honor the dead,
> but to try to conceal the smell. Of course I will remove the dead as
> soon as I check on them when I get home from work.

I tend to disagree. Maybe the cat was not really grieving, we'll
never know, but it certainly wasn't scent-marking. What a ridiculous idea!
OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go.
The only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the
cats. :)

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Bill Graham
August 18th 10, 08:49 PM
"Patok" > wrote in message
...
> Cheryl wrote:
>> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Jul 16, 8:37 pm, Netmask > wrote:
>>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>>
>>> No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
>>> matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
>>> MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
>>> because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
>>> marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
>>> your political agenda, of course :)
>>
>> I think I tend to agree. Along with cats, I also keep pet mice. Mice
>> have short lives and when one dies, the others, or maybe just the alpha,
>> buries the dead in the bedding. I don't think it is to honor the dead,
>> but to try to conceal the smell. Of course I will remove the dead as
>> soon as I check on them when I get home from work.
>
> I tend to disagree. Maybe the cat was not really grieving, we'll never
> know, but it certainly wasn't scent-marking. What a ridiculous idea!
> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go. The
> only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the cats.
> :)
>
> --
> You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
> --
> Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Yes. I have 5 cats, and they scent mark things frequently. This cat wasn't
scent marking.....It was trying to revive it's friend. I have brought back
dead cats to the house (when I thought they were one of mine that was run
down), and the other cats paid no attention to them....(They knew that it
wasn't one of their own) I have never seen a cat scent mark another dead
cat. They knead the chest of people and each other, but that isn't scent
marking. Scent marking is when they rub the side of their face on objects or
your legs.

Cheryl[_3_]
August 18th 10, 09:48 PM
"Patok" > wrote in message
...

> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go. The
> only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the cats.
> :)
>

I would never leave my mice vulnerable to being eaten by my cats. Mice are
just smaller versions of rats, which also make really neat pets. Not street
rats, fancy rats and fancy mice. They have completely lost their wild
temperament and are so friendly. I've only had one group that had biters,
and they weren't socialized from the infant stage.

They are smart, and it's interesting to watch their interactive dynamics
among each other, and you can tell who is the "alpha". They are meticulously
clean, and they love to rearrange their living areas to suite their mood, or
if they sense urine in the bedding they want moved out of the sleeping area.
Unfortunately they tend to leak urine and can pee when they run or sleep.
But I've rarely been peed on when holding one. Pooped on, yes, but it doesn't
bother me. For the most part they pee and poop in one place and it's easily
scooped out between tank cleanings.

In short, they are smart, fun to watch and interact with, easy to take care
of and friendly. I don't breed them; I only have taken in rescued domestic
mice, or breeding females that have been retired to live out the rest of
their life in ease. My current mouse is going to be my last. She's been
alone since the last one passed on a couple of months ago, and mice are very
social, so it can't be good for her. I try to give her attention any time I
can. I've just decided it is too hard on one of my cats because after all
of this time, he still thinks he can break in the tank and get a snack. I
don't want to put any more mice in danger, and I don't want to keep teasing
my cat. Cats are not to be trusted around small animals because their prey
drive is strong, and they can be lightening quick.

Patok[_2_]
August 18th 10, 11:04 PM
Bill Graham wrote:
> "Patok" > wrote in message
>>> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Jul 16, 8:37 pm, Netmask > wrote:
>>>>> http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
>>>> matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
>>>> MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
>>>> because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
>>>> marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
>>>> your political agenda, of course :)
>>>
>>
>> I tend to disagree. Maybe the cat was not really grieving, we'll
>> never know, but it certainly wasn't scent-marking. What a ridiculous
>> idea!
>>
>
> Yes. I have 5 cats, and they scent mark things frequently. This cat
> wasn't scent marking.....It was trying to revive it's friend. I have
> brought back dead cats to the house (when I thought they were one of
> mine that was run down), and the other cats paid no attention to
> them....(They knew that it wasn't one of their own) I have never seen a
> cat scent mark another dead cat. They knead the chest of people and each
> other, but that isn't scent marking. Scent marking is when they rub the
> side of their face on objects or your legs.

I'm not so sure even about that. Weren't there some doubts about what
exactly the rubbing does? If it was scent-marking, they'd have to sniff
those things too, in order to read the marks; I don't think they do. The
only indisputable scent-marking is when they spray on stuff, but that's
from the other end. :)

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Patok[_2_]
August 18th 10, 11:15 PM
Cheryl wrote:
> "Patok" > wrote in message
>
>> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go.
>> The only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for
>> the cats. :)
>>
>
> I would never leave my mice vulnerable to being eaten by my cats. Mice
> are just smaller versions of rats, which also make really neat pets.
> Not street rats, fancy rats and fancy mice. They have completely lost
> their wild temperament and are so friendly. I've only had one group
> that had biters, and they weren't socialized from the infant stage.


Interesting. I know that rats are smart, but mice? They may be cute
and friendly and fun; but smart? I've obviously never had mice for pets,
or I wouldn't be asking, but I've had hamsters, which were pretty dumb,
even if cute. My thinking was that mice couldn't be smarter than
hamsters, being smaller.
Do you think that cats would be hunting the mice to eat them, even if
they were brought up together, starting as kittens? But maybe you have a
point that they could hurt them by playing with them, just by being
stronger and faster.


> In short, they are smart, fun to watch and interact with, easy to take
> care of and friendly. I don't breed them; I only have taken in rescued
> domestic mice, or breeding females that have been retired to live out
> the rest of their life in ease. My current mouse is going to be my
> last. She's been alone since the last one passed on a couple of months
> ago, and mice are very social, so it can't be good for her. I try to
> give her attention any time I can. I've just decided it is too hard on
> one of my cats because after all of this time, he still thinks he can
> break in the tank and get a snack. I don't want to put any more mice in
> danger, and I don't want to keep teasing my cat. Cats are not to be
> trusted around small animals because their prey drive is strong, and
> they can be lightening quick.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Cheryl[_3_]
August 19th 10, 01:27 AM
"Patok" > wrote in message
...


> Do you think that cats would be hunting the mice to eat them, even if
> they were brought up together, starting as kittens? But maybe you have a
> point that they could hurt them by playing with them, just by being
> stronger and faster.

I would never trust the two species to be allowed to interact because it
goes against nature. There are always exceptions, but I don't want to be
the one to try to find one.

Aaron Eel (Ehrin)
August 19th 10, 04:44 AM
On Aug 18, 3:49*pm, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
> "Patok" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Cheryl wrote:
> >> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
> ....
> >>> On Jul 16, 8:37 pm, Netmask > wrote:
> >>>>http://www.youmaker.com/video/sv?id=b234e67edb2d485ea2a2ca8b3f003432001
>
> >>> No matter what kind of sloppy-sad music you try to use... and no
> >>> matter how hard you try to humanize it... the cat is simply SCENT-
> >>> MARKING the other cat. That's why cats do that with their paws. It's
> >>> because they have scent-glands there. For cats, it's all about scent-
> >>> marking! No matter how MUCH you might wish it to be otherwise. For
> >>> your political agenda, of course :)
>
> >> I think I tend to agree. *Along with cats, I also keep pet mice. *Mice
> >> have short lives and when one dies, the others, or maybe just the alpha,
> >> buries the dead in the bedding. *I don't think it is to honor the dead,
> >> but to try to conceal the smell. *Of course I will remove the dead as
> >> soon as I check on them when I get home from work.
>
> > * I tend to disagree. Maybe the cat was not really grieving, we'll never
> > know, but it certainly wasn't scent-marking. What a ridiculous idea!
> > * OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go. The
> > only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the cats.
> > :)
>
> > --
> > You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
> > --
> > Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Bill Graham
August 20th 10, 03:17 AM
"Patok" > wrote in message
...
> Cheryl wrote:
>> "Patok" > wrote in message
>>> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go.
>>> The only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the
>>> cats. :)
>>>
>>
>> I would never leave my mice vulnerable to being eaten by my cats. Mice
>> are just smaller versions of rats, which also make really neat pets. Not
>> street rats, fancy rats and fancy mice. They have completely lost their
>> wild temperament and are so friendly. I've only had one group that had
>> biters, and they weren't socialized from the infant stage.
>
>
> Interesting. I know that rats are smart, but mice? They may be cute and
> friendly and fun; but smart? I've obviously never had mice for pets, or I
> wouldn't be asking, but I've had hamsters, which were pretty dumb, even if
> cute. My thinking was that mice couldn't be smarter than hamsters, being
> smaller.
> Do you think that cats would be hunting the mice to eat them, even if
> they were brought up together, starting as kittens? But maybe you have a
> point that they could hurt them by playing with them, just by being
> stronger and faster.
>
>
>> In short, they are smart, fun to watch and interact with, easy to take
>> care of and friendly. I don't breed them; I only have taken in rescued
>> domestic mice, or breeding females that have been retired to live out the
>> rest of their life in ease. My current mouse is going to be my last.
>> She's been alone since the last one passed on a couple of months ago, and
>> mice are very social, so it can't be good for her. I try to give her
>> attention any time I can. I've just decided it is too hard on one of my
>> cats because after all of this time, he still thinks he can break in the
>> tank and get a snack. I don't want to put any more mice in danger, and I
>> don't want to keep teasing my cat. Cats are not to be trusted around
>> small animals because their prey drive is strong, and they can be
>> lightening quick.

Carnivores, (even wild ones) can be taught to get along with other pets that
would normally be their natural prey....There are many examples of
this.....Lions and deer and/or people, dogs and cats, cats and
birds......Even the wild raccoons that I feed will never bother my domestic
cats....They know that the cats belong here and they are the, "guests", and
harming one of my cats would end their welcome.

Bill Graham
August 20th 10, 03:23 AM
"Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
...

......The results obtained confirm the view
that the normal biological functions of the eccrine glands of the
feline foot pad are to improve the frictional capacities of the paw
and to leave typical scent marks.

A lot of jargon that I don't understand, but I do understand that there is
no way in hell any tests can get inside a cats brain and prove what he/she
is thinking when they knead a chest and sniff at a nose.....

dgk
August 20th 10, 01:13 PM
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:17:22 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"Patok" > wrote in message
...
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>> "Patok" > wrote in message
>>>> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go.
>>>> The only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for the
>>>> cats. :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would never leave my mice vulnerable to being eaten by my cats. Mice
>>> are just smaller versions of rats, which also make really neat pets. Not
>>> street rats, fancy rats and fancy mice. They have completely lost their
>>> wild temperament and are so friendly. I've only had one group that had
>>> biters, and they weren't socialized from the infant stage.
>>
>>
>> Interesting. I know that rats are smart, but mice? They may be cute and
>> friendly and fun; but smart? I've obviously never had mice for pets, or I
>> wouldn't be asking, but I've had hamsters, which were pretty dumb, even if
>> cute. My thinking was that mice couldn't be smarter than hamsters, being
>> smaller.
>> Do you think that cats would be hunting the mice to eat them, even if
>> they were brought up together, starting as kittens? But maybe you have a
>> point that they could hurt them by playing with them, just by being
>> stronger and faster.
>>
>>
>>> In short, they are smart, fun to watch and interact with, easy to take
>>> care of and friendly. I don't breed them; I only have taken in rescued
>>> domestic mice, or breeding females that have been retired to live out the
>>> rest of their life in ease. My current mouse is going to be my last.
>>> She's been alone since the last one passed on a couple of months ago, and
>>> mice are very social, so it can't be good for her. I try to give her
>>> attention any time I can. I've just decided it is too hard on one of my
>>> cats because after all of this time, he still thinks he can break in the
>>> tank and get a snack. I don't want to put any more mice in danger, and I
>>> don't want to keep teasing my cat. Cats are not to be trusted around
>>> small animals because their prey drive is strong, and they can be
>>> lightening quick.
>
>Carnivores, (even wild ones) can be taught to get along with other pets that
>would normally be their natural prey....There are many examples of
>this.....Lions and deer and/or people, dogs and cats, cats and
>birds......Even the wild raccoons that I feed will never bother my domestic
>cats....They know that the cats belong here and they are the, "guests", and
>harming one of my cats would end their welcome.

It seems that raccoons are very smart and it's pretty clever of them
to learn not to harm your cats. I know that we have raccoons around
here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2575457524/in/photostream

That's a mom and child on my neighbor's porch room. But we really
almost never see them.

Aaron Eel (Ehrin)
August 20th 10, 08:13 PM
On Aug 19, 10:23*pm, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in ...
>
> .....The results obtained confirm the view
> that the normal biological functions of the eccrine glands of the
> feline foot pad are to improve the frictional capacities of the paw
> and to leave typical scent marks.
>
> A lot of jargon that I don't understand,


That's okay. Because everyone else does : )



Aaron Eel
(Ehrin Lloyd)

Bill Graham
August 21st 10, 02:35 AM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:17:22 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Patok" > wrote in message
...
>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>> "Patok" > wrote in message
>>>>> OT question - why do you keep mice? They're pretty dumb as pets go.
>>>>> The only reason I'd keep mice (I don't) would be for living toys for
>>>>> the
>>>>> cats. :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would never leave my mice vulnerable to being eaten by my cats. Mice
>>>> are just smaller versions of rats, which also make really neat pets.
>>>> Not
>>>> street rats, fancy rats and fancy mice. They have completely lost
>>>> their
>>>> wild temperament and are so friendly. I've only had one group that had
>>>> biters, and they weren't socialized from the infant stage.
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting. I know that rats are smart, but mice? They may be cute
>>> and
>>> friendly and fun; but smart? I've obviously never had mice for pets, or
>>> I
>>> wouldn't be asking, but I've had hamsters, which were pretty dumb, even
>>> if
>>> cute. My thinking was that mice couldn't be smarter than hamsters, being
>>> smaller.
>>> Do you think that cats would be hunting the mice to eat them, even if
>>> they were brought up together, starting as kittens? But maybe you have a
>>> point that they could hurt them by playing with them, just by being
>>> stronger and faster.
>>>
>>>
>>>> In short, they are smart, fun to watch and interact with, easy to take
>>>> care of and friendly. I don't breed them; I only have taken in rescued
>>>> domestic mice, or breeding females that have been retired to live out
>>>> the
>>>> rest of their life in ease. My current mouse is going to be my last.
>>>> She's been alone since the last one passed on a couple of months ago,
>>>> and
>>>> mice are very social, so it can't be good for her. I try to give her
>>>> attention any time I can. I've just decided it is too hard on one of
>>>> my
>>>> cats because after all of this time, he still thinks he can break in
>>>> the
>>>> tank and get a snack. I don't want to put any more mice in danger, and
>>>> I
>>>> don't want to keep teasing my cat. Cats are not to be trusted around
>>>> small animals because their prey drive is strong, and they can be
>>>> lightening quick.
>>
>>Carnivores, (even wild ones) can be taught to get along with other pets
>>that
>>would normally be their natural prey....There are many examples of
>>this.....Lions and deer and/or people, dogs and cats, cats and
>>birds......Even the wild raccoons that I feed will never bother my
>>domestic
>>cats....They know that the cats belong here and they are the, "guests",
>>and
>>harming one of my cats would end their welcome.
>
> It seems that raccoons are very smart and it's pretty clever of them
> to learn not to harm your cats. I know that we have raccoons around
> here:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2575457524/in/photostream
>
> That's a mom and child on my neighbor's porch room. But we really
> almost never see them.

One of the most amazing film clips I ever saw was about 6 months ago when a
friend sent me a u-tube clip of a guy in South America who had a wild
crockadile as a buddy! He had raised it from the egg, and he would go out by
the riverside and whistle, and this huge (14 foot plus) crock would come
swimming up to him and they would lie together on the river bank and hug one
another! The crock considered him to be its mother.....This is amazing when
you consider that crocks have been eating us mammals for millions of
years......It really gave me an insight to what goes on in the minds of wild
animals......

Bill Graham
August 22nd 10, 03:31 AM
"Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in message
...
On Aug 19, 10:23 pm, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
> "Aaron Eel (Ehrin)" > wrote in
> ...
>
> .....The results obtained confirm the view
> that the normal biological functions of the eccrine glands of the
> feline foot pad are to improve the frictional capacities of the paw
> and to leave typical scent marks.
>
> A lot of jargon that I don't understand,


That's okay. Because everyone else does : )


Well, if it convinces them that they can tell why that cat in the video is
kneading and sniffing at his buddy's nose, then it has seriously compromised
their common sense.....How about you?