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Nadia N.
August 9th 10, 05:14 PM
Please anyone who has experience with this, I need help, or at least
reassurance.

I took Sweety - 2.5 year old ragdoll - to the vet today for her yearly
vaccination. She got something called Nobivac Tricat (for feline
herpesvirus, feline calicivirus and feline panleucopenia). 3 hours later
she started having diarrhea and vomiting. I rushed her back to the vet.
He gave her a shot for infection and to stop the vomiting, then told me
to take her home and keep her cool (we're in Spain and it's *hot* here
right now). He said her color (gums) was good. She was panting, but she
always pants when she's scared or excited, so we think that was not a
problem. He gave her Primperan for the vomiting, and I'm not sure what
the name of the drug against infection was. He gave me a syringe with
another dose of the same medicine to inject her with in 8 hours.

I took her home, and about an hour later she tried throwing up again.
There wasn't anything in her tummy so all that came out was a bit of
foamy liquid. But at the same time her read end started leaking bloody
diarrhea. It was just mucus and blood - there was nothing left in her
intestines by this point. I called the vet again, and told him this. He
told me to give her Flagyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole)
and Sucralfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralfate). I am familiar
with both of these - I've given the Flagyl to her when she had bloody
diarrhea as a kitten, but then it was just a few drops of blood, not a
whole puddle of blood like now. He said to call him in a few hours again
to tell him how she's doing.

What else should I be doing? She's not drinking, and with the vomiting
and diarrhea she must be dehydrated (although she wasn't when I took her
to the vet - he checked her skin). I tried offering her water, ice cubes
in the water, freshly made chicken broth (cooled)... she won't even
sniff at anything. Should I syringe water into her?

What else do vets normally do in these cases? Should I take her to
another vet? Just treating the symptoms of vomiting and diarrhea doesn't
seem enough... but maybe that's what is normally done and I am just too
crazy with worry...

Nadia, Kotyo and a very sick Sweety

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

AZ Nomad[_2_]
August 9th 10, 06:25 PM
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:14:24 +0200, Nadia N. > wrote:
>Please anyone who has experience with this, I need help, or at least
>reassurance.

>I took Sweety - 2.5 year old ragdoll - to the vet today for her yearly
>vaccination. She got something called Nobivac Tricat (for feline
>herpesvirus, feline calicivirus and feline panleucopenia). 3 hours later
>she started having diarrhea and vomiting. I rushed her back to the vet.

Assuming she's not dead from inaction, get her to a pet emergency care
clinic, or another vet if you haven't one.

Nadia N.
August 9th 10, 06:38 PM
AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:14:24 +0200, Nadia N. > wrote:
>> Please anyone who has experience with this, I need help, or at least
>> reassurance.
>
>> I took Sweety - 2.5 year old ragdoll - to the vet today for her yearly
>> vaccination. She got something called Nobivac Tricat (for feline
>> herpesvirus, feline calicivirus and feline panleucopenia). 3 hours later
>> she started having diarrhea and vomiting. I rushed her back to the vet.
>
> Assuming she's not dead from inaction, get her to a pet emergency care
> clinic, or another vet if you haven't one.

She is not dead. She hasn't vomited since the last time I posted. She
had one more incident of trying to poo where she just passed mucous
which was dark pink in color. It wasn't as bloody as the last time.

What exactly else is a vet supposed to do other than what my vet did? He
checked her heart and the color of her gums, and gave medicines to try
to stop the vomiting and diarrhea. She has no trouble breathing, so he
didn't give her an anti-histamine as I've read is done sometimes for
adverse reactions to vaccines. If you know what else is supposed to be
done, maybe you can post it instead of saying "if she's not dead from
inaction". I am trying my best to get her the best care I can.

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

AZ Nomad[_2_]
August 9th 10, 07:21 PM
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:38:03 +0200, Nadia N. > wrote:
>AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:14:24 +0200, Nadia N. > wrote:
>>> Please anyone who has experience with this, I need help, or at least
>>> reassurance.
>>
>>> I took Sweety - 2.5 year old ragdoll - to the vet today for her yearly
>>> vaccination. She got something called Nobivac Tricat (for feline
>>> herpesvirus, feline calicivirus and feline panleucopenia). 3 hours later
>>> she started having diarrhea and vomiting. I rushed her back to the vet.
>>
>> Assuming she's not dead from inaction, get her to a pet emergency care
>> clinic, or another vet if you haven't one.

>She is not dead. She hasn't vomited since the last time I posted. She
>had one more incident of trying to poo where she just passed mucous
>which was dark pink in color. It wasn't as bloody as the last time.

>What exactly else is a vet supposed to do other than what my vet did? He
>checked her heart and the color of her gums, and gave medicines to try

I don't know. I'm not a vet nor do I play one on usenet. Vomiting is
serious business and I wouldn't spend the evening asking strangers on
usenet. Kitty'd be in the care of professionals instead.

Nadia N.
August 9th 10, 07:48 PM
AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:38:03 +0200, Nadia N. > wrote:

>> What exactly else is a vet supposed to do other than what my vet did? He
>> checked her heart and the color of her gums, and gave medicines to try
>
> I don't know. I'm not a vet nor do I play one on usenet. Vomiting is
> serious business and I wouldn't spend the evening asking strangers on
> usenet. Kitty'd be in the care of professionals instead.

I did take her to a professional. I took her to her vet - the same one
who gave her the vaccination. He gave her Primperan to stop the vomiting
and she has indeed stopped vomiting. I have the vet's emergency phone
number and he said to call at any time if I notice any change for the
worse. At the moment she is sleeping. Earlier she was even washing
herself, which to me is a sign that she is feeling better.

The reason I posted was because I was hoping to hear from other people
who have been in a similar situation with their cat, so I could have
some idea of what to expect, and to reassure myself that this happens
and cats get over it with the proper care. That was *AFTER* I had taken
my cat to the vet for the 2nd time, and after I had talked to him on the
phone. I was not looking for vet advice online. I said as much in my
original post, right at the top. Maybe you missed reading that part?

Again, does anyone have any advice how I can get Sweety to drink? She
still refuses any water or broth. She hasn't eaten or drunk since this
morning (about 12 hours ago), and she threw up the food she'd eaten
then. I am not concerned about her not eating, but I think she needs to
drink. I tried to give her water with a syringe and most of it ended up
on her fur. For a sick kitty she sure has a lot of fight in her. I don't
want to stress her too much by forcing water on her. It's bad enough
that I'll have to force bad-tasting medicine down her throat again. I
asked the vet about her not drinking and he thinks that she is still
feeling too nauseous to want to drink, and that she'll start drinking
when she feels better. He said that if she doesn't drink anything until
tomorrow morning it won't hurt her, and if she really hasn't started
drinking by then I should bring her back in. He repeated again that she
was not dehydrated when he looked at her the 2nd time (about 4 hours ago).

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

cshenk
August 9th 10, 09:46 PM
"Nadia N." wrote

> Again, does anyone have any advice how I can get Sweety to drink? She
> still refuses any water or broth. She hasn't eaten or drunk since this
> morning (about 12 hours ago), and she threw up the food she'd eaten

Drinking is critical. Too dehydrated they will have to put her on an IV.

Try broth again, but water it down a bit and make sure it isnt to salty.

> then. I am not concerned about her not eating, but I think she needs to
> drink. I tried to give her water with a syringe and most of it ended up on
> her fur. For a sick kitty she sure has a lot of fight in her. I don't

Keep trying. If 'most ended on her fur' that means some got in? Thats
important. Do not use milk (unless special cat milk) as older cats are
almost always lactose intolerant so it would cause more loss than gain.

They make a sort of margarine for lactose intolerant people and it's mostly
water. If she likes butter, she may accept licking some of that.

> want to stress her too much by forcing water on her. It's bad enough that
> I'll have to force bad-tasting medicine down her throat again. I asked the
> vet about her not drinking and he thinks that she is still feeling too
> nauseous to want to drink, and that she'll start drinking when she feels
> better. He said that if she doesn't drink anything until tomorrow morning
> it won't hurt her, and if she really hasn't started drinking by then I
> should bring her back in. He repeated again that she was not dehydrated
> when he looked at her the 2nd time (about 4 hours ago).

I agree she probably isnt too much so if she's normally well aquated. 12
hours is acceptable (not preferred obviously)

I've only had experience with one cat that had a bad reaction to a shot, but
it was a bit like this. He was allergic to something in that shot. If it
helps, he did indeed start drinking a bit in the night and by morning was
happy to be waited on hand and foot with little tempting treats in tiny
amounts every hour or so. The first thing he accepted with a little bit of
my roomate's 'special margarine for the lactose intolerant' (her idea and a
good one as it worked).

He was my roomate's cat and they moved on so I don't know if Chauncy had any
later issues. Just that he didn't have any while she was staying with me.

Matthew[_3_]
August 9th 10, 11:13 PM
Sardine juice or tuna juice from a can with their own oil

"Nadia N." > wrote in message
...
> AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:38:03 +0200, Nadia N. >
>> wrote:
>
>>> What exactly else is a vet supposed to do other than what my vet did? He
>>> checked her heart and the color of her gums, and gave medicines to try
>>
>> I don't know. I'm not a vet nor do I play one on usenet. Vomiting is
>> serious business and I wouldn't spend the evening asking strangers on
>> usenet. Kitty'd be in the care of professionals instead.
>
> I did take her to a professional. I took her to her vet - the same one who
> gave her the vaccination. He gave her Primperan to stop the vomiting and
> she has indeed stopped vomiting. I have the vet's emergency phone number
> and he said to call at any time if I notice any change for the worse. At
> the moment she is sleeping. Earlier she was even washing herself, which to
> me is a sign that she is feeling better.
>
> The reason I posted was because I was hoping to hear from other people who
> have been in a similar situation with their cat, so I could have some idea
> of what to expect, and to reassure myself that this happens and cats get
> over it with the proper care. That was *AFTER* I had taken my cat to the
> vet for the 2nd time, and after I had talked to him on the phone. I was
> not looking for vet advice online. I said as much in my original post,
> right at the top. Maybe you missed reading that part?
>
> Again, does anyone have any advice how I can get Sweety to drink? She
> still refuses any water or broth. She hasn't eaten or drunk since this
> morning (about 12 hours ago), and she threw up the food she'd eaten then.
> I am not concerned about her not eating, but I think she needs to drink. I
> tried to give her water with a syringe and most of it ended up on her fur.
> For a sick kitty she sure has a lot of fight in her. I don't want to
> stress her too much by forcing water on her. It's bad enough that I'll
> have to force bad-tasting medicine down her throat again. I asked the vet
> about her not drinking and he thinks that she is still feeling too
> nauseous to want to drink, and that she'll start drinking when she feels
> better. He said that if she doesn't drink anything until tomorrow morning
> it won't hurt her, and if she really hasn't started drinking by then I
> should bring her back in. He repeated again that she was not dehydrated
> when he looked at her the 2nd time (about 4 hours ago).
>
> --
> Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
> Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
> Kotyo and Sweety together:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Nadia N.
August 10th 10, 12:08 AM
cshenk wrote:
> "Nadia N." wrote
>
>> Again, does anyone have any advice how I can get Sweety to drink? She
>> still refuses any water or broth. She hasn't eaten or drunk since this
>> morning (about 12 hours ago), and she threw up the food she'd eaten
>
> Drinking is critical. Too dehydrated they will have to put her on an IV.
>
> Try broth again, but water it down a bit and make sure it isnt to salty.

I managed to get her to drink a bit of chicken broth. It wasn't the
broth we cooked especially for her, though - she wouldn't touch that
one. But she eats these cans of pure white chicken meat in broth, and
after I had exhausted all other choices I gave her some of the broth
from the can, diluted with water. At first I didn't want to give her
that because it does have some salt in it, but I was out of other things
to try, and I did add a lot of water to it. So far I've given it to her
3 times. She slurps up some, then starts licking her chops and stops. I
think that maybe she starts feeling nauseous again and that's why she
stops. Still, she drank up about 3/4 of a bowl that way (it's her wet
food bowl, not as big as a water bowl, but still not small).

She has perked up quite a bit. She washed for a while, walked around,
even lead me to the fridge asking for food. I'm not supposed to give her
food till tomorrow morning though, so she just got more broth. I had to
give her a shot - a second dose of the same anti-inflammatory and
anti-nausea medicine that the vet gave her at the office. I'd never
given a kitty a shot before. I hope I did it right. Poor little girl,
having to be stuck with needles by an amateur.


> I've only had experience with one cat that had a bad reaction to a shot,
> but it was a bit like this. He was allergic to something in that shot.
> If it helps, he did indeed start drinking a bit in the night and by
> morning was happy to be waited on hand and foot with little tempting
> treats in tiny amounts every hour or so. The first thing he accepted
> with a little bit of my roomate's 'special margarine for the lactose
> intolerant' (her idea and a good one as it worked).
>

Thanks for telling me about your roommate's cat. It's good to know this
has happened to other kitties before, and they recovered. I have been
googling adverse reactions to vaccines, but pretty much all of them
describe symptoms that she doesn't have, like swelling up and difficulty
breathing, falling over, seizures. I wonder if maybe her symptoms being
just vomiting and diarrhea and none of the others mean that this is not
so much an allergic reaction to the vaccine, but that the vaccination
just weakened her system and let an existing problem get worse. She has
always had a sensitive tummy, soft stools, and when I first got her as a
kitten she had diarrhea with blood in it for over a week. In any case,
she seems better tonight. We'll see how she does with solid food tomorrow...

Oh, and to the person who said that she might "die from inattention" and
that my vet was unprofessional, my vet called tonight at 11:30 pm to ask
how she was doing, and if she had started drinking. Very inattentive of
him, yeah.

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Nadia N.
August 10th 10, 12:15 AM
Matthew wrote:
> Sardine juice or tuna juice from a can with their own oil

Thanks, Matthew. I don't think I can give her anything fish-based. With
her upset tummy any kind of fish juice would only make it worse. She
doesn't actually get any fish-based food, because the one and only time
I tried giving her some she started throwing up, violently. She's always
had a sensitive tummy.

I managed to get her to drink some chicken broth, as I said in my other
post, so things are looking up. Next hurdle - a bit of solid food for
breakfast, and the morning dose of anti-diarrhea medicine. It's Flagyl,
which seems to taste absolutely awful. When I gave it to her this
afternoon she started foaming at the mouth. Poor baby :-(


--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Matthew[_3_]
August 10th 10, 01:33 AM
sounds like a really bad reaction to the vaccine. Do you know how to check
to see if they are dehydrated by pulling on their skin Google it. If it is
positive and no matter what I would call the vet to see if they need to
start IV fluids.

I know this is emotional WRITE down all the symptoms and reactions all of
them how long apart etc it is easier to tell a vet when stuff like this
happens trust me it works. When rumble has is first seizure 7 years ago I
was a babbling mess and hysterical my vet who is my friend also thought my
mom died. Since than I have learned the above

http://www.ehow.com/how_2161409_treat-dehydrated-cat.html
http://www.cat-world.com.au/dehydration-in-cats


"Nadia N." > wrote in message
...
> Matthew wrote:
>> Sardine juice or tuna juice from a can with their own oil
>
> Thanks, Matthew. I don't think I can give her anything fish-based. With
> her upset tummy any kind of fish juice would only make it worse. She
> doesn't actually get any fish-based food, because the one and only time I
> tried giving her some she started throwing up, violently. She's always had
> a sensitive tummy.
>
> I managed to get her to drink some chicken broth, as I said in my other
> post, so things are looking up. Next hurdle - a bit of solid food for
> breakfast, and the morning dose of anti-diarrhea medicine. It's Flagyl,
> which seems to taste absolutely awful. When I gave it to her this
> afternoon she started foaming at the mouth. Poor baby :-(
>
>
> --
> Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
> Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
> Kotyo and Sweety together:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Rene S.
August 10th 10, 04:39 AM
On Aug 9, 11:14*am, "Nadia N." > wrote:
> Please anyone who has experience with this, I need help, or at least
> reassurance.

Hello Nadia,

I've been away for several days and just saw your post. I am hoping by
now that Sweety is doing fine. One of our cats had two bad reactions
when he was a young cat (one year) to a vaccine--also vomiting, loose
stools, and his ears and paw pads were bright pink. We took him to the
emergency vets and they gave him a shot of benadryl to stop the
reaction (it helped only a little).

I wanted to caution you, now that she's had this reaction--to NOT
vaccinate her again. It could be more dangerous of a reaction next
time she gets any vaccine. We have not vaccinated Benny since he had
the reaction. IMO it's just too dangerous.

Rene

MLB[_2_]
August 10th 10, 06:03 AM
Nadia N. wrote:
> Matthew wrote:
>> Sardine juice or tuna juice from a can with their own oil
>
> Thanks, Matthew. I don't think I can give her anything fish-based. With
> her upset tummy any kind of fish juice would only make it worse. She
> doesn't actually get any fish-based food, because the one and only time
> I tried giving her some she started throwing up, violently. She's always
> had a sensitive tummy.
>
> I managed to get her to drink some chicken broth, as I said in my other
> post, so things are looking up. Next hurdle - a bit of solid food for
> breakfast, and the morning dose of anti-diarrhea medicine. It's Flagyl,
> which seems to taste absolutely awful. When I gave it to her this
> afternoon she started foaming at the mouth. Poor baby :-(
>
>
Sending heartfelt purrs that kitty will feel better very soon.
Sometimes giving nature a chance helps. Best wishes. MLB

Nadia N.
August 10th 10, 04:50 PM
Matthew wrote:
> sounds like a really bad reaction to the vaccine. Do you know how to check
> to see if they are dehydrated by pulling on their skin Google it. If it is
> positive and no matter what I would call the vet to see if they need to
> start IV fluids.
>
> I know this is emotional WRITE down all the symptoms and reactions all of
> them how long apart etc it is easier to tell a vet when stuff like this
> happens trust me it works. When rumble has is first seizure 7 years ago I
> was a babbling mess and hysterical my vet who is my friend also thought my
> mom died. Since than I have learned the above
>
> http://www.ehow.com/how_2161409_treat-dehydrated-cat.html
> http://www.cat-world.com.au/dehydration-in-cats

Thanks for the links. I've bookmarked them for future need. She is much
better today. She's eaten several times - small portions of chicken -
and she drank all the water and broth I added to the food. So she's not
dehydrated.

And yeah, it is so scary when they're sick, and the fact that my Spanish
is not the best and the vet's English is non-existent didn't help. When
I saw that puddle of blood where she had tried to poo I almost lost my
mind. Not the best of states in which to try to explain things to the
vet in another language. Now that I'm calmer I am writing down the whole
episode, with approximate times of when things happened. I'm not sure if
the vets here keep detailed records like my vet in Canada did, so I'm
keeping the records for my cats myself - when they were sick, what
medicine and dosage they were given, how they reacted, etc. You never
know when it might come in useful...

And I'm just so relieved that she's feeling better. She's only 2 and
half - too young to be trying to give me more gray hairs with serious
health problems :-(

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Nadia N.
August 10th 10, 04:53 PM
MLB wrote:

> Sending heartfelt purrs that kitty will feel better very soon. Sometimes
> giving nature a chance helps. Best wishes. MLB

Thanks for the purrs and good wishes. They seem to be working - she is
mostly her normal self today. Maybe a little more sleepy, but she has
her appetite back, she's drinking, grooming herself, and she even chased
her tail for a bit a few hours ago.

--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Nadia N.
August 10th 10, 05:03 PM
Rene S. wrote:

> I wanted to caution you, now that she's had this reaction--to NOT
> vaccinate her again. It could be more dangerous of a reaction next
> time she gets any vaccine. We have not vaccinated Benny since he had
> the reaction. IMO it's just too dangerous.
>

Thanks Rene. Yeah, I was reading up on vaccine reactions yesterday and
read that if a cat has a reaction to a vaccine, if she gets vaccinated
again she'll get a worse reaction. Considering how scary it was this
time, I don't want to imagine what a worse reaction would be. So I will
not be vaccinating her again.

I am concerned though about her catching something that I bring in from
outside. There are tons of stray cats living outside here in Spain, and
I don't drive so I walk everywhere. I'm afraid I might bring in
something on my shoes that she won't be protected against. I know I
won't have to worry about this for at least a year, maybe not even for
the next 3 years (I think current vaccination protocols say that it's
enough to vaccinate cats every 3 years instead of every year). But
eventually her immunity will fade and then what? I guess I have 3 years
to think of ways to figure something out...


--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

cshenk
August 10th 10, 11:05 PM
"Nadia N." wrote
> cshenk wrote:

>> Try broth again, but water it down a bit and make sure it isnt to salty.

> I managed to get her to drink a bit of chicken broth. It wasn't the broth
> we cooked especially for her, though - she wouldn't touch that

So glad this worked! Keep in mind just like a dehydtated 2foot, she may
need a bit of salt and other electrolytes just now.

> one. But she eats these cans of pure white chicken meat in broth, and
> after I had exhausted all other choices I gave her some of the broth from
> the can, diluted with water. At first I didn't want to give her that
> because it does have some salt in it, but I was out of other things to
> try, and I did add a lot of water to it. So far I've given it to her 3
> times. She slurps up some, then starts licking her chops and stops. I
> think that maybe she starts feeling nauseous again and that's why she
> stops. Still, she drank up about 3/4 of a bowl that way (it's her wet food
> bowl, not as big as a water bowl, but still not small).

That works. Salt is bad for them over long term in the levels 2foots use,
but if she's accepting the level you served, it's fine. Right now, it's
more important to get her drinking and eating. I takes a few years for a
high sodium diet issue to bother a cat.

> She has perked up quite a bit. She washed for a while, walked around, even
> lead me to the fridge asking for food. I'm not supposed to give her food
> till tomorrow morning though, so she just got more broth. I had to give
> her a shot - a second dose of the same anti-inflammatory and anti-nausea
> medicine that the vet gave her at the office. I'd never given a kitty a
> shot before. I hope I did it right. Poor little girl, having to be stuck
> with needles by an amateur.

Lol! I bet she feels better now.

>> I've only had experience with one cat that had a bad reaction to a shot,
>> but it was a bit like this. He was allergic to something in that shot.
>> If it helps, he did indeed start drinking a bit in the night and by
>> morning was happy to be waited on hand and foot with little tempting
>> treats in tiny amounts every hour or so. The first thing he accepted
>> with a little bit of my roomate's 'special margarine for the lactose
>> intolerant' (her idea and a good one as it worked).

> Thanks for telling me about your roommate's cat. It's good to know this
> has happened to other kitties before, and they recovered. I have been
> googling adverse reactions to vaccines, but pretty much all of them
> describe symptoms that she doesn't have, like swelling up and difficulty
> breathing, falling over, seizures. I wonder if maybe her symptoms being
> just vomiting and diarrhea and none of the others mean that this is not so
> much an allergic reaction to the vaccine, but that the vaccination just
> weakened her system and let an existing problem get worse. She has always
> had a sensitive tummy, soft stools, and when I first got her as a kitten
> she had diarrhea with blood in it for over a week. In any case, she seems
> better tonight. We'll see how she does with solid food tomorrow...

Roomates cat never had any of that swelling or seizures or breathing
problems.

Her sensitive tummy though does sound like there might be an allergy to
something in her food going on. Once she's better, maybe we can discuss
what you currently feed and look it up to see if an alternative seems
reasonable for your area and finances.

The rule of thumb is every time you see a soft stool (over soft), the food
rushed through and nutrients were probably not properly absorbed. The
occasional issue is not a problem. The long term issue, can be.

> Oh, and to the person who said that she might "die from inattention" and
> that my vet was unprofessional, my vet called tonight at 11:30 pm to ask
> how she was doing, and if she had started drinking. Very inattentive of
> him, yeah.

Grin, sounds like a good vet and a language problem. Any vet who calls *me*
to see how my pet is doing, is a keeper.

I'll add, I don't see as you did anything wrong to ask for anyone with
experience in this to post back as you clearly indicated right away you were
post vet trip with followups already taken. You got home with her and were
following vet advice with morning followup already set and just looking for
those who had seen similar and what they did.

cshenk
August 10th 10, 11:15 PM
"Nadia N." wrote
>Rene S. wrote:

>> I wanted to caution you, now that she's had this reaction--to NOT
>> vaccinate her again. It could be more dangerous of a reaction next
>> time she gets any vaccine. We have not vaccinated Benny since he had
>> the reaction. IMO it's just too dangerous.
>>
>
> Thanks Rene. Yeah, I was reading up on vaccine reactions yesterday and
> read that if a cat has a reaction to a vaccine, if she gets vaccinated
> again she'll get a worse reaction. Considering how scary it was this time,
> I don't want to imagine what a worse reaction would be. So I will not be
> vaccinating her again.

> I am concerned though about her catching something that I bring in from
> outside. There are tons of stray cats living outside here in Spain, and I
> don't drive so I walk everywhere. I'm afraid I might bring in something on
> my shoes that she won't be protected against. I know I won't have to worry
> about this for at least a year, maybe not even for the next 3 years (I
> think current vaccination protocols say that it's enough to vaccinate cats
> every 3 years instead of every year). But eventually her immunity will
> fade and then what? I guess I have 3 years to think of ways to figure
> something out...

Nadia would you be US military associated? Doesnt really matter. One thing
you need to check is the vaccination requirements to bring a pet to the next
country. There is some controversy in how fast a vaccination fades, but
there is little doubt on what is required per country be 'current'.

Hawaii used to be very restrictive and so was England. Probably others as
well.

Nadia N.
August 11th 10, 01:59 PM
cshenk wrote:
> "Nadia N." wrote
>> She has perked up quite a bit. She washed for a while, walked around,
>> even lead me to the fridge asking for food. I'm not supposed to give
>> her food till tomorrow morning though, so she just got more broth. I
>> had to give her a shot - a second dose of the same anti-inflammatory
>> and anti-nausea medicine that the vet gave her at the office. I'd
>> never given a kitty a shot before. I hope I did it right. Poor little
>> girl, having to be stuck with needles by an amateur.
>
> Lol! I bet she feels better now.

She seems pretty much back to normal today. She's playful, eating well,
drinking, she's used the litterbox (no poo yet, but it's too early to
expect that). She caught a moth last night. I have one more day of
forcing nasty-tasting liquids down her throat and then hopefully her
tummy will continue to behave itself without any medicine.


> Her sensitive tummy though does sound like there might be an allergy to
> something in her food going on. Once she's better, maybe we can discuss
> what you currently feed and look it up to see if an alternative seems
> reasonable for your area and finances.

She definitely had a problem with any and all dry food when she was a
kitten. So it's probably some kind of grain intolerance. She's been
eating 3/4 of a can of Hill's Chicken and Liver per day (the 156 g/5.5
oz cans). To that I add 6 heaping spoonfuls of a pure chicken meat food
called Porta 21 (it's a German-made food - basically just shredded white
meat and broth). I'd like to put her on the Porta 21 only, but then she
gets constipated, and also, I did a comparison of the nutrient contents
of the Hill's and the Porta food, and the Hill's seems better. I would
love to be able to switch her to a completely grain-free food, if I
could... But as you said, that's a discussion for another time :-)

>
> The rule of thumb is every time you see a soft stool (over soft), the
> food rushed through and nutrients were probably not properly absorbed.
> The occasional issue is not a problem. The long term issue, can be.

I think partially the problem might be that I was giving her too much
food per day. I had this problem with my Kotyo before - my mom kept
slipping him extra food every day and he kept having soft stools. The
vet checked him out, analyzed a stool sample, and there was nothing
wrong with him. Finally she asked us how much we were feeding him and
suggested we reduce the amount. We tried that, and lo and behold - no
more soft stools :-) Sweety is a food hound, just like her big brother.
She'll wolf down everything in her bowl, and then beg for more. I used
to give her a whole can of the Hill's, but changed to 3/4 about a month
ago, and since then her soft stools are not as frequent. But now she
only goes every 2 days instead of every day as before, so I don't know
if that's good either...

>
>> Oh, and to the person who said that she might "die from inattention"
>> and that my vet was unprofessional, my vet called tonight at 11:30 pm
>> to ask how she was doing, and if she had started drinking. Very
>> inattentive of him, yeah.
>
> Grin, sounds like a good vet and a language problem. Any vet who calls
> *me* to see how my pet is doing, is a keeper.

Yep, definitely a keeper. That whole vet clinic is pretty good. The main
vet speaks perfect English, and is knowledgeable about the latest CRF
research and treatments, which I desperately need because unfortunately
my Kotyo was diagnosed with early stage kidney disease in March. And the
vet who treated Sweety this week seems pretty good as well, and he can
understand my Spanish when I'm not semi-hysterical :-)

>
> I'll add, I don't see as you did anything wrong to ask for anyone with
> experience in this to post back as you clearly indicated right away you
> were post vet trip with followups already taken. You got home with her
> and were following vet advice with morning followup already set and just
> looking for those who had seen similar and what they did.
>

I probably should not have snapped at that poster, but I was not exactly
at my calmest, I had a cat who was pooing blood, and seeing them post
"if she's not dead yet from inaction" was really the last thing I needed
to read at that time. When I am calmer I realize that sometimes people
skim posts and don't notice all the information in them, and I know that
people on this newsgroup (me included) feel very strongly about taking
your cat to the vet first and asking on the newsgroup later. So I can
understand that the person meant well and were concerned about Sweety.
It's just the word "dead" really hit me hard and I do wish that people
would try to choose their words a bit more carefully in these situations...


--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Nadia N.
August 11th 10, 02:10 PM
cshenk wrote:

> Nadia would you be US military associated? Doesnt really matter. One
> thing you need to check is the vaccination requirements to bring a pet
> to the next country. There is some controversy in how fast a
> vaccination fades, but there is little doubt on what is required per
> country be 'current'.
>
> Hawaii used to be very restrictive and so was England. Probably others
> as well.

No military or US associations of any kind :-) I'm Canadian. I will
probably be moving back to Canada at some point, but not for years yet.
As far as I know, Canada only requires a current rabies vaccination for
pets entering the country. I don't think that a reaction to the 3-in-1
vaccine means that Sweety will have a reaction to the rabies vaccine as
well, but at this time I don't plan to vaccinate her against rabies
either. There is no rabies in Spain, and she is indoors-only, so there
is no need for it. If/when it comes time to move back to Canada, I'll
discuss the issue the vet and follow his recommendations.



--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

cshenk
August 12th 10, 12:07 AM
"Nadia N." wrote
> cshenk wrote:

>> Nadia would you be US military associated? Doesnt really matter. One
>> thing you need to check is the vaccination requirements to bring a pet to
>> the next country. There is some controversy in how fast a vaccination
>> fades, but there is little doubt on what is required per country be
>> 'current'.

> No military or US associations of any kind :-) I'm Canadian. I will
> probably be moving back to Canada at some point, but not for years yet.

Ok, keep an eye on Canada. It's less restrictive best I know.

> As far as I know, Canada only requires a current rabies vaccination for
> pets entering the country. I don't think that a reaction to the 3-in-1
> vaccine means that Sweety will have a reaction to the rabies vaccine as
> well, but at this time I don't plan to vaccinate her against rabies
> either. There is no rabies in Spain, and she is indoors-only, so there is
> no need for it. If/when it comes time to move back to Canada, I'll discuss
> the issue the vet and follow his recommendations.

Good idea. My cat gets the rabies shot but there are 2 reasons. She was
feral for an unknown number of years, and we have local problems with rabid
bats and squirrels. Although a bat would be rare within 2 miles of me, the
squirrels jump all over my yard and potentially could get in the screened
porch if determined.

Fortunatly the worst I have ever had from other than the roomates cat, was a
nasty look when getting a vaccination.

cshenk
August 12th 10, 12:17 AM
"Nadia N." wrote
> cshenk wrote:

>> Lol! I bet she feels better now.

> She seems pretty much back to normal today. She's playful, eating well,
> drinking, she's used the litterbox (no poo yet, but it's too early to
> expect that). She caught a moth last night. I have one more day of forcing
> nasty-tasting liquids down her throat and then hopefully her tummy will
> continue to behave itself without any medicine.

So good!

>> Her sensitive tummy though does sound like there might be an allergy to
>> something in her food going on. Once she's better, maybe we can discuss
>> what you currently feed and look it up to see if an alternative seems
>> reasonable for your area and finances.

> She definitely had a problem with any and all dry food when she was a
> kitten. So it's probably some kind of grain intolerance. She's been eating
> 3/4 of a can of Hill's Chicken and Liver per day (the 156 g/5.5 oz cans).
> To that I add 6 heaping spoonfuls of a pure chicken meat food called Porta
> 21 (it's a German-made food - basically just shredded white meat and
> broth). I'd like to put her on the Porta 21 only, but then she gets
> constipated, and also, I did a comparison of the nutrient contents of the
> Hill's and the Porta food, and the Hill's seems better. I would love to be
> able to switch her to a completely grain-free food, if I could... But as
> you said, that's a discussion for another time :-)

No problem! She may even be reacting to a preservative.

> I think partially the problem might be that I was giving her too much food
> per day. I had this problem with my Kotyo before - my mom kept slipping
> him extra food every day and he kept having soft stools. The vet checked
> him out, analyzed a stool sample, and there was nothing wrong with him.
> Finally she asked us how much we were feeding him and suggested we reduce
> the amount. We tried that, and lo and behold - no more soft stools :-)
> Sweety is a food hound, just like her big brother.

LOL!

> She'll wolf down everything in her bowl, and then beg for more. I used to
> give her a whole can of the Hill's, but changed to 3/4 about a month ago,
> and since then her soft stools are not as frequent. But now she only goes
> every 2 days instead of every day as before, so I don't know if that's
> good either...

That may be ok. I don't know but there is another thread related to a
furball kitty who is getting fiber. This *might* be useful to you and wont
harm.

>>> Oh, and to the person who said that she might "die from inattention" and
>>> that my vet was unprofessional, my vet called tonight at 11:30 pm to ask
>>> how she was doing, and if she had started drinking. Very inattentive of
>>> him, yeah.
>>
>> Grin, sounds like a good vet and a language problem. Any vet who calls
>> *me* to see how my pet is doing, is a keeper.
>
> Yep, definitely a keeper. That whole vet clinic is pretty good. The main
> vet speaks perfect English, and is knowledgeable about the latest CRF
> research and treatments, which I desperately need because unfortunately my
> Kotyo was diagnosed with early stage kidney disease in March. And the vet
> who treated Sweety this week seems pretty good as well, and he can
> understand my Spanish when I'm not semi-hysterical :-)

I'd have been n hysterics!

>> I'll add, I don't see as you did anything wrong to ask for anyone with
>> experience in this to post back as you clearly indicated right away you
>> were post vet trip with followups already taken. You got home with her
>> and were following vet advice with morning followup already set and just
>> looking for those who had seen similar and what they did.

> I probably should not have snapped at that poster, but I was not exactly
> at my calmest, I had a cat who was pooing blood, and seeing them post "if
> she's not dead yet from inaction" was really the last thing I needed to
> read at that time. When I am calmer I realize that sometimes people skim
> posts and don't notice all the information in them, and I know that people
> on this newsgroup (me included) feel very strongly about taking your cat
> to the vet first and asking on the newsgroup later. So I can understand
> that the person meant well and were concerned about Sweety. It's just the
> word "dead" really hit me hard and I do wish that people would try to
> choose their words a bit more carefully in these situations...

Don't worry about it. I'm not purrfect always ;-). Some folks just react
with 1/2 reading.

Rene S.
August 12th 10, 02:57 AM
> I am concerned though about her catching something that I bring in from
> outside. There are tons of stray cats living outside here in Spain, and
> I don't drive so I walk everywhere. I'm afraid I might bring in
> something on my shoes that she won't be protected against. I know I
> won't have to worry about this for at least a year, maybe not even for
> the next 3 years (I think current vaccination protocols say that it's
> enough to vaccinate cats every 3 years instead of every year). *But
> eventually her immunity will fade and then what? I guess I have 3 years
> to think of ways to figure something out...

Good. I am glad you won't be vaccinating her again. I do have
something for you to consider. In three years, you could get her a
titer panel. This is a blood test that will show her immunity to the
different diseases. If she shows any immunity at all, that's a good
sign.

I had this done a couple of years ago for our oldest (12). He has had
several medical problems (pancreatitis and now he has mild ashtma), so
I no longer vaccinate him due to his health. I had a titer done on
him--after about six years of no vaccinations at all--and he still
showed immunity to all the major diseases.

It cost about $100 American and took a few weeks to get the results
back but it was worth the wait IMO.

Rene

Nadia N.
August 12th 10, 07:54 PM
Rene S. wrote:

> Good. I am glad you won't be vaccinating her again. I do have
> something for you to consider. In three years, you could get her a
> titer panel. This is a blood test that will show her immunity to the
> different diseases. If she shows any immunity at all, that's a good
> sign.

Yes, that's a good idea. I don't know if there is a lab in Spain where
they can do that, but I'll keep it in mind for the future. Thanks.


--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety