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John Doe
November 4th 10, 02:20 AM
A feral female cat has been here for three years and four months.
Still not touchable, but light years better than the first hour or
two of window gymnastics after being trapped inside. When she
knows some delicious food is on the way, she is able to let loose
a tiny little meow or two.

I recently added another carpeted and upholstered eight-foot 1x4
in a different location, to give them another route up to their
Skyway. It has been there for almost one week. She hangs around
the area at the base of that new climbing post when playing with
Kitty, but she is unable to climb up the thing. Probably within
two weeks from now she will be able to climb it (their main
perch/platform is right at the top of the new climbing post). Any
change in her environment requires much time to adjustment.

The male cat Kitty climbed up the thing within minutes after it
was put into position. I think she knows what it is for, but like
so many other things she is just unable to act. Very similar to a
person being unable to move when he (or she) is frightened. They
might want or need to do something, but they just cannot do it.
Must be a form of hell in that little mind of hers.




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Paul M. Cook[_2_]
November 4th 10, 12:25 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
b.com...
>A feral female cat has been here for three years and four months.
> Still not touchable, but light years better than the first hour or
> two of window gymnastics after being trapped inside. When she
> knows some delicious food is on the way, she is able to let loose
> a tiny little meow or two.
>
> I recently added another carpeted and upholstered eight-foot 1x4
> in a different location, to give them another route up to their
> Skyway. It has been there for almost one week. She hangs around
> the area at the base of that new climbing post when playing with
> Kitty, but she is unable to climb up the thing. Probably within
> two weeks from now she will be able to climb it (their main
> perch/platform is right at the top of the new climbing post). Any
> change in her environment requires much time to adjustment.
>
> The male cat Kitty climbed up the thing within minutes after it
> was put into position. I think she knows what it is for, but like
> so many other things she is just unable to act. Very similar to a
> person being unable to move when he (or she) is frightened. They
> might want or need to do something, but they just cannot do it.
> Must be a form of hell in that little mind of hers.

Not necessarily. Hell is when you experience something that is against what
you have always known. When all you know is paranoia, fear and fight or
flight, that is the norm. With cats as it is with people it really is true
that nobody actually suffers from mental illness. They usually enjoy every
minute of it. Hell is what you make it, as is reality and normality. A
feral cat is what nature meant it to be and really. It is pure, complete
and perfect in the evolutionary sense. The only hell they know is the
comfort we try to give them. What is a soft bed when the tradeoff is it has
no freedom to roam at will and stalk and kill its next meal? What is the
point of a long and comfortable life when nature has programmed you to live
and act in the moment? What is a bowl of food, however tasty, when nature
designed you to kill for what you need to survive? It would be like being
given the most powerful jet fighter aircraft and being told you could sit in
it but never fly it. What a paradox, eh? Nobody has ever explained how or
why some cats decided long ago that the comforts to be had with humans is
superior in their view to the freedom of the wild.

That is the conundrum that killed my little girl cat. She simply could not
leave the wild behind even when her very life was at stake.

Paul

dgk
November 5th 10, 06:38 PM
On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 05:25:48 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
wrote:

>
>"John Doe" > wrote in message
b.com...
>>A feral female cat has been here for three years and four months.
>> Still not touchable, but light years better than the first hour or
>> two of window gymnastics after being trapped inside. When she
>> knows some delicious food is on the way, she is able to let loose
>> a tiny little meow or two.
>>
>> I recently added another carpeted and upholstered eight-foot 1x4
>> in a different location, to give them another route up to their
>> Skyway. It has been there for almost one week. She hangs around
>> the area at the base of that new climbing post when playing with
>> Kitty, but she is unable to climb up the thing. Probably within
>> two weeks from now she will be able to climb it (their main
>> perch/platform is right at the top of the new climbing post). Any
>> change in her environment requires much time to adjustment.
>>
>> The male cat Kitty climbed up the thing within minutes after it
>> was put into position. I think she knows what it is for, but like
>> so many other things she is just unable to act. Very similar to a
>> person being unable to move when he (or she) is frightened. They
>> might want or need to do something, but they just cannot do it.
>> Must be a form of hell in that little mind of hers.
>
>Not necessarily. Hell is when you experience something that is against what
>you have always known. When all you know is paranoia, fear and fight or
>flight, that is the norm. With cats as it is with people it really is true
>that nobody actually suffers from mental illness. They usually enjoy every
>minute of it. Hell is what you make it, as is reality and normality. A
>feral cat is what nature meant it to be and really. It is pure, complete
>and perfect in the evolutionary sense. The only hell they know is the
>comfort we try to give them. What is a soft bed when the tradeoff is it has
>no freedom to roam at will and stalk and kill its next meal? What is the
>point of a long and comfortable life when nature has programmed you to live
>and act in the moment? What is a bowl of food, however tasty, when nature
>designed you to kill for what you need to survive? It would be like being
>given the most powerful jet fighter aircraft and being told you could sit in
>it but never fly it. What a paradox, eh? Nobody has ever explained how or
>why some cats decided long ago that the comforts to be had with humans is
>superior in their view to the freedom of the wild.
>
>That is the conundrum that killed my little girl cat. She simply could not
>leave the wild behind even when her very life was at stake.
>
>Paul
>

True to an extent, but kittens that are socialized before 8 weeks of
age often make excellent pets. Socialization after that can lead to a
cat that will trust the one human doing the socialization but no one
else. Cats that are not socialized by that time or are just truly
feral will never be comforable inside and probably should be left
outside.

I just did TNR on eight outdoor cats in my neighborhood. Three are
very friendly and are likely adoptable. In fact, one probably has a
home with one of my neighbors and I just might take in another. Three
are ok around people and you can even pet them while they eat but will
never really be comfortable inside. The other two are so feral that
they hid in the back of the trap and hissed whenever I came near, even
to feed them and clean the trap.

We've set up styrofoam homes for the winter for the outdoor cats, they
get fed, and actually have a damn good life. If any of them gets
injured or looks sick we'll try to trap them and get them vet care.

Healthy outdoor cats do not really get diseases or fleas. Three of the
cats had diarrhea while in the traps and I had them tested for ova and
parasites and all were clean so it was likely just stress.

A woman who helped me with the TNR (she's a pro) has eight kittens in
her bathroom. I'm going over on Saturday to help her with socializing
them, so that they are comfortable around people and can be adopted.
Besides, who could turn down a chance to play with eight kittens?

cshenk
November 5th 10, 09:02 PM
"dgk" wrote

> else. Cats that are not socialized by that time or are just truly
> feral will never be comforable inside and probably should be left
> outside.

Interesting POV but not one I have experienced with my current or past
ferals.

Bill Graham
November 5th 10, 10:31 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "dgk" wrote
>
>> else. Cats that are not socialized by that time or are just truly
>> feral will never be comforable inside and probably should be left
>> outside.
>
> Interesting POV but not one I have experienced with my current or past
> ferals.
>

All you need to tame a feral cat, male or female, is food. If you feed it
regularly, it will eventually come inside your house, and live with you. You
can speed up the process by trapping it inside your house, but if that is
impractical, then you don't have to do it....It will just take a bit more
time. Feral cats, in most places, spend a great percentage of their time
trying to find enough food to keep from starving to death. And, like all
cats, they know a good thing when they find it.

dgk
November 8th 10, 01:42 PM
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 15:31:02 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
>> "dgk" wrote
>>
>>> else. Cats that are not socialized by that time or are just truly
>>> feral will never be comforable inside and probably should be left
>>> outside.
>>
>> Interesting POV but not one I have experienced with my current or past
>> ferals.
>>
>
>All you need to tame a feral cat, male or female, is food. If you feed it
>regularly, it will eventually come inside your house, and live with you. You
>can speed up the process by trapping it inside your house, but if that is
>impractical, then you don't have to do it....It will just take a bit more
>time. Feral cats, in most places, spend a great percentage of their time
>trying to find enough food to keep from starving to death. And, like all
>cats, they know a good thing when they find it.

That's certainly true. Scooter joined us within the last year and
still has OUT priviliges - he runs out when I open the door to feed
the outside cats and stays out for a few minutes then comes back in.
He's no dope. On a nice day he might wander off and I have to leave
for work so he comes in when I get home, but those times are getting
rare.

The socializing of the kittens did not go too well. Debbie has them
in a tiny bathroom (maybe 5 feet by 6 feet! including a tub) and they
all cowered in or behind the two carriers. I could pet them but they
wouldn't come out to play. They're already five or six months old.

Most of the local adoption agencies will only take cats that are
socialized. I have no idea what Debby will do with them but she is
almost assuredly a "crazy cat lady". She already has five cats in a
two room apartment and the seven kittens in the bathroom. She had
eight but one died a while back.

I'll go over to try to play with them again in a few days and
hopefully it will go a bit better.

dgk
November 8th 10, 01:50 PM
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:02:42 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:

>"dgk" wrote
>
>> else. Cats that are not socialized by that time or are just truly
>> feral will never be comforable inside and probably should be left
>> outside.
>
>Interesting POV but not one I have experienced with my current or past
>ferals.

They're all different of course. Four of the young cats that were in
the TNR were from the same litter, hanging out in a neighbor's
backyard. Two of those were touchable and two were the true ferals.
They haven't been treated any differently, just getting fed by the
neighbors and essentially being on their own.

There was a litter of four in front of my house and we started
socializing them (much to their feral mother's horror) within two
weeks. We'd pick them up and hold them almost daily. One ended up
getting run over by a car but the other three all have homes now. I
doubt that would be the case if no one had made sure that they knew
that people could be trusted.

John Doe
December 3rd 10, 09:50 AM
"Paul M. Cook" <pmcook gte.net> wrote:

> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote

>> A feral female cat has been here for three years and four
>> months. Still not touchable, but light years better than the
>> first hour or two of window gymnastics after being trapped
>> inside. When she knows some delicious food is on the way, she
>> is able to let loose a tiny little meow or two.
>>
>> I recently added another carpeted and upholstered eight-foot
>> 1x4 in a different location, to give them another route up to
>> their Skyway. It has been there for almost one week. She hangs
>> around the area at the base of that new climbing post when
>> playing with Kitty, but she is unable to climb up the thing.
>> Probably within two weeks from now she will be able to climb it
>> (their main perch/platform is right at the top of the new
>> climbing post). Any change in her environment requires much
>> time to adjustment.
>>
>> The male cat Kitty climbed up the thing within minutes after it
>> was put into position. I think she knows what it is for, but
>> like so many other things she is just unable to act. Very
>> similar to a person being unable to move when he (or she) is
>> frightened. They might want or need to do something, but they
>> just cannot do it. Must be a form of hell in that little mind
>> of hers.
>
> Not necessarily. Hell is when you experience something that is
> against what you have always known. When all you know is
> paranoia, fear and fight or flight, that is the norm. With cats
> as it is with people it really is true that nobody actually
> suffers from mental illness.

Says who? A wacky Libertarian?

> They usually enjoy every minute of it.

Cruel bull****. There is a difference between coping and enjoying.
An animal that is suffering from serious mental illness is coping
with the situation.

> Hell is what you make it,

Or maybe what you make it.

> as is reality and normality. A feral cat is what nature meant
> it to be and really.

Mine is not just feral, she is/was totally terrified of human
beings (and anything she is not familiar with).

> It is pure, complete and perfect in the evolutionary sense. The
> only hell they know is the comfort we try to give them.

Or maybe you just suck at it.

My "pure, complete, and perfect" feral female was so hungry that
she came into my house for food, even though she was in fact
literally terrified while doing so.

> What is a soft bed when the tradeoff is it has no freedom to
> roam at will and stalk and kill its next meal?

Whatever cats prefer in your ****ed up fantasies, obviously mine
preferred FancyFeast.

> What is the point of a long and comfortable life

Not sure about the long part, but I know for a fact that the
comfortable part is very nice.

> Nobody has ever explained how or why some cats decided long ago
> that the comforts to be had with humans is superior in their
> view to the freedom of the wild.

More wordy babbling...

Cats are not in a natural environment when they are outside in the
city. I enjoy street skating because I understand what is going on
around me. Cats are unable to comprehend or cope in the same
environment. Many urban cats have short miserable lives.

> That is the conundrum that killed my little girl cat. She simply
> could not leave the wild behind even when her very life was at
> stake.

In other words, you ****ed up and you are blaming it on the cat,
pretending like it knew better. That is the way of people who act
like a cat is very smart, it gives the person justification to
screw up. And they can use the cats alleged intelligence as an
excuse to abuse it when it messes up, as if the cat should have
known better. Knowing its limitations will help you prepare and
better take responsibility for its welfare.

My cats get the best of both worlds. They get the comfort and
safety of the great indoors, lots of exercise thanks to their
Skyway, and as much outside stimulation as possible (the outside
sounds, a view, and the smells when possible). And if you avoid
bullying them, and respect the fact that they are captive and
could otherwise run from you, they might even choose to stick
around when they have an opportunity to flee.


--
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>
> Paul
>
>
>

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> From: "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook gte.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Paranoid feral female
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 05:25:48 -0700
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John Doe
December 3rd 10, 11:02 AM
dgk <dgk somewhere.com> wrote:

> True to an extent, but kittens that are socialized before 8
> weeks of age often make excellent pets. Socialization after that
> can lead to a cat that will trust the one human doing the
> socialization but no one else. Cats that are not socialized by
> that time or are just truly feral will never be comforable
> inside and probably should be left outside.

If mine is a hard-core feral female like that, they definitely do
not make good pets. I am sure that mine is more comfortable than
it was outside, but that might depend on the reality of outside in
this case. I suspect that mine was raised with no human contact
and then had bad experiences with people.

> We've set up styrofoam homes for the winter

Sounds great. If possible, you might consider putting a piece of
Astroturf inside. It probably would not be too cool, and it
definitely would be comfortable and easy to keep clean. It would
help prevent tearing up the bottom of the Styrofoam, but you could
accomplish that with many other things. Good luck.




--
Thanks to the replies.