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Doug Bashford[_2_]
August 21st 11, 07:06 PM
Wow, I just searched rec.pets.cats.health+behav
for the last year and only got 2 threads about "flea."
Wazup with that!?? Fleas are no longer a problem?

I just had two flea collars fail to work.
Are Fleas now ammune to everything?
I remember when flea collars were 100% effective
for the 3 months they advertised.
Now the purple (tetrachlorvinphose 14.55%) 7-month $3 Hartz
Ultraguard flea & tick collar for cats & kittens only
stopped the scratching for a week or so.
(I also used the approved Hartz 30-day egg & larva "control"
drops (Ultraguard Onespot (S)methoprene 2.9%)). Note it
doesn't claim to "kill" eggs & larva.

I just abandoned the lime-green 6-month one
(with 3 white stripes) same-same, no good and
figured I just forgot to stretch-activate it.
I presume it was a different formula, since I think it
advertised to also "kill" larva and eggs.

My cat is under 5 pounds, about 8 years old, and
very healthy, almost kitten-like in energy.

In the past I have used both Frontline and Advantage
drops once every spring and (sometimes) fall to kill flea
infestations.
But as I noted here On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:58:09 GMT, in
"is there an Antidote for Revolution? (fleas);"
Revolution almost killed my cat. ...so it's not like
these fleas have had years of flea collars to gain immunity.
So looking around the Web, it seems flea collars in
general are not effective, and might be dangerous,
so it's back to flea drops?

1) Has anybody else ran into flea collars that don't
kill flea infestations? (I live in Fresno, CA.)

2) Has anybody ran into flea drops that don't
kill flea infestations?

3) Suggestions?




Re: Fleas;
On Tue, 16 Aug 201, obsidianjg wrote:


> On Aug 15, 11:49*am, Suzie-Q > wrote:
> > Does anyone have any opinions or experience using food grade
> > diatomaceous earth sprinkled on/into carpets for treating
> > fleas?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > 8^)~~~~~~ * * * Sue * * (remove x to email)
> > ~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > http://suzie-q-wacvet.com/http://intergnat.com/malebashing/
>
> I don't have any experience with the stuff you are using. But getting
> rid of fleas isn't easy. I used Borax with some success, but it only
> works on the ares you treated. I got rid of fleas by using Borax,
> diligently vacuuming all "cat areas", and treating my cats with
> Frontline. This only works if the flea infestation is in the beginning
> stages. Once the fleas have settled in, you need stronger tools like
> the bombs. But you still should treat your cats with Frontline or
> Advantage or some similar product.

---MIKE---
August 21st 11, 11:45 PM
Flea collars are useless..Don't use any Hartz products. They are
dangerous. Frontline and Advantage should work if properly applied.
Revolution is also a good product. Where your cat weighs less than 5
pounds, the doses for all these products should be adjusted. Best to
see your vet about this.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Doug Bashford[_2_]
August 24th 11, 05:42 PM
Re: Are Fleas now ammune to everything?;
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:45:01 -0400, ---MIKE--- wrote:


> Flea collars are useless..Don't use any Hartz products. They are
> dangerous. Frontline and Advantage should work if properly applied.
> Revolution is also a good product. Where your cat weighs less than 5
> pounds, the doses for all these products should be adjusted. Best to
> see your vet about this.

Thanks, I guess a stock cut-and-paste reply is
generically better than none. However, you've
addressed none of my concerns.

BTW, don't most drops and collars come in both
the over, and the under 5-pound dosages?
I noticed Wal-mart was out of the under-5
Hartz collar, but had it the next day.
(Labled: "for cats and kittens" or over five lbs.


>
>
> ---MIKE---
> >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

Billy[_2_]
August 28th 11, 07:43 PM
In article >,
Doug Bashford > wrote:

> Re: Are Fleas now ammune to everything?;
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:45:01 -0400, ---MIKE--- wrote:
>
>
> > Flea collars are useless..Don't use any Hartz products. They are
> > dangerous. Frontline and Advantage should work if properly applied.
> > Revolution is also a good product. Where your cat weighs less than 5
> > pounds, the doses for all these products should be adjusted. Best to
> > see your vet about this.
>
> Thanks, I guess a stock cut-and-paste reply is
> generically better than none. However, you've
> addressed none of my concerns.
>
> BTW, don't most drops and collars come in both
> the over, and the under 5-pound dosages?
> I noticed Wal-mart was out of the under-5
> Hartz collar, but had it the next day.
> (Labled: "for cats and kittens" or over five lbs.
>
>
> >
> >
> > ---MIKE---
> > >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> > >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
> The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
> The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

More cut 'n paste I'm afraid.

<http://cats.about.com/cs/healthissues/a/permethrin_2.htm>
Flea and tick control products are registered with the EPA. Under
federal law, manufacturers of these products are required to file a
report each time a consumer complains about problems with the products.
In 2001, the EPA instituted an investigation of several Hartz products,
prompted by "large numbers of incidents reported in the quarterly
aggregate reports for these products." (Quarterly reports referenced
were from 3rd quarter 1998 through 4th quarter 2000.) The Hartz products
reviewed were:
1. 2596-146? Control One-Spot for Dogs
(2.9% methoprene and 45% permethrin)
2. 2596-147 Control One-Spot for Cats
(2.9% methoprene)
3. 2596-148 Advanced Care Flea and Tick Drops for Cats (85.7%
d-phenothrin and 2.9% methoprene)
4. 2596-150 Advanced Care Flea and Tick Drops for Dogs (85.7%
dphenothrin and 2.9% methoprene)

The investigation found that 141 cat deaths were directly attributable
to having been treated either intentionally or accidentally with Product
#2596-146, and an additional 17 deaths came from contact with dogs
treated with that product. These deaths constituted 66% of the total
deaths reported. Of Major Events (not resulting in death) reported, 316
were in cats directly treated with Product #2596-146, or having contact
with treated dogs. These figures provide a compelling reason to observe
label instructions in all products.

There were 202 deaths reported for Product #2596-147, (from data
provided by NAPCC (National Animal Poison Control Center). Of those, 75
were considered unlikely due to product exposure, and 109 deaths were of
unknown cause, partially due to incomplete information by the reporting
persons.? Nine cases of liver failure and death were found to be
attributable to that product.

Of "major events" (not death related incidents), 128 (76%) involved
tremor and/or seizures, and 109 of the total 169 "were categorized as
unlikely caused by 2596-147." It should be noted that this product does
not contain permethrin. Its active ingredient is methoprene. However,
with this ingredient alone, the report cited multiple cases of "possible
dermal hypersensitivity, with symptoms of "hyperactivity, nervousness,
trying to bite at application site, hissing, agitation, tachycardia,
dyspnea (difficulty breathing) and panting."
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
<http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/mar/28/dennis-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/>

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And itıs not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thatıs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they donıt get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
<http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis>

Bill Graham
August 29th 11, 03:05 AM
Someone said:

The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
> The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

How about keeping your world view, but attempting to change the facts to
accomodate it?

Doug Bashford[_2_]
August 30th 11, 02:11 AM
about: Re: Are Fleas now ammune to everything?;
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Billy wrote:
> Doug Bashford > wrote:
>
> > Re: Are Fleas now ammune to everything?;
> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:45:01 -0400, ---MIKE--- wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Flea collars are useless..Don't use any Hartz products. They are
> > > dangerous. Frontline and Advantage should work if properly applied.
> > > Revolution is also a good product. Where your cat weighs less than 5
> > > pounds, the doses for all these products should be adjusted. Best to
> > > see your vet about this.
> >
> > Thanks, I guess a stock cut-and-paste reply is
> > generically better than none. However, you've
> > addressed none of my concerns.
> >
> > BTW, don't most drops and collars come in both
> > the over, and the under 5-pound dosages?
> > I noticed Wal-mart was out of the under-5
> > Hartz collar, but had it the next day.
> > (Labled: "for cats and kittens" or over five lbs.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---MIKE---
> > > >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> > > >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')
> >
> > The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
> > The rational change their world view to fit the facts.
>
> More cut 'n paste I'm afraid.

If it's germane, no problemo.

>
> <http://cats.about.com/cs/healthissues/a/permethrin_2.htm>
> Flea and tick control products are registered with the EPA. Under
> federal law, manufacturers of these products are required to file a
> report each time a consumer complains about problems with the products.
> In 2001, the EPA instituted an investigation of several Hartz products,
> prompted by "large numbers of incidents reported in the quarterly
> aggregate reports for these products." (Quarterly reports referenced
> were from 3rd quarter 1998 through 4th quarter 2000.) The Hartz products
> reviewed were:
> 1. 2596-146? Control One-Spot for Dogs
> (2.9% methoprene and 45% permethrin)
> 2. 2596-147 Control One-Spot for Cats
> (2.9% methoprene)
> 3. 2596-148 Advanced Care Flea and Tick Drops for Cats (85.7%
> d-phenothrin and 2.9% methoprene)
> 4. 2596-150 Advanced Care Flea and Tick Drops for Dogs (85.7%
> dphenothrin and 2.9% methoprene)
>
> The investigation found that 141 cat deaths were directly attributable
> to having been treated either intentionally or accidentally with Product
> #2596-146,

All operator error.

> and an additional 17 deaths came from contact with dogs
> treated with that product.

I had no idea permethrin was so deadly
to cats! It's usage as a GP insectecide
(and house & garden)
has EXPLODED in recent years because it's
so harmless. I notice it's (or it's cousins)
now the main ingredient even for RAID.


> These deaths constituted 66% of the total
> deaths reported. Of Major Events (not resulting in death) reported, 316
> were in cats directly treated with Product #2596-146, or having contact
> with treated dogs. These figures provide a compelling reason to observe
> label instructions in all products.
>
> There were 202 deaths reported for Product #2596-147, (from data
> provided by NAPCC (National Animal Poison Control Center). Of those, 75
> were considered unlikely due to product exposure, and 109 deaths were of
> unknown cause, partially due to incomplete information by the reporting
> persons.? Nine cases of liver failure and death were found to be
> attributable to that product.

I smell statistics spinning here. Why are you not
reporting the same categoris for both dog & cat?
For example, why no; "unlikely due to product exposure"
for cats? ...and so on?

>
> Of "major events" (not death related incidents), 128 (76%) involved
> tremor and/or seizures, and 109 of the total 169 "were categorized as
> unlikely caused by 2596-147." It should be noted that this product does
> not contain permethrin. Its active ingredient is methoprene. However,

I'm afraid that the lack of comparable data has me so
distracted that the narritive is gibberish to me.

> with this ingredient alone, the report cited multiple cases of "possible
> dermal hypersensitivity, with symptoms of "hyperactivity, nervousness,
> trying to bite at application site, hissing, agitation, tachycardia,
> dyspnea (difficulty breathing) and panting."

I've had three bad experiences, once with drops (as
mentioned) plus once with a Zodiac flea collar
....on two different cats.
In both cases the main symptom was drunkenness,
with the drops: also a cocked sideways head for several
days.
With the Zodiac flea collar, I was able to remove
it within an hour. (So no dead cat!)
The third bad experience is now: fleas seemingly
not killed. In all cases the cats had been treated
OK before, none were sick or old.


The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

Doug Bashford[_2_]
August 30th 11, 02:24 AM
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Bill Graham wrote:
> Someone said:
>
> The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
> > The rational change their world view to fit the facts.
>
> How about keeping your world view, but attempting to change the facts to
> accomodate it?

The key I think is the ability to differentiate
practical goal-setting from insanity.

You know the story of Don Quixote? (sp)

Another problem is the ability to differentiate
world-changing from the great satisfactions of
fist-shaking and windmill-charging. (The latter
can cause great harm.)




The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.