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Bohgosity BumaskiL
August 21st 11, 08:38 PM
I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It is
a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she tells me
she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right), just before
she tries to make me fall or something. It is like I am paying a price
for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my shoulders, or in my arms.

honeybunch
August 22nd 11, 10:21 PM
On Aug 21, 3:38*pm, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> wrote:
> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It is
> a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she tells me
> she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right), just before
> she tries to make me fall or something. It is like I am paying a price
> for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my shoulders, or in my arms.

May I ask how old you are? This is often a serious issue with our
elders and some go on to develop a fear that their cats will cause
them to fall and break their hips. Perhaps a bell attached to the
kitty's collar would alert you to his presence and then you can take
the necessary precaution to beware of stepping on him.

Bill Graham
August 23rd 11, 11:11 PM
honeybunch wrote:
> On Aug 21, 3:38 pm, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> > wrote:
>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It
>> is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she
>> tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right),
>> just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is like I am
>> paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my
>> shoulders, or in my arms.
>
> May I ask how old you are? This is often a serious issue with our
> elders and some go on to develop a fear that their cats will cause
> them to fall and break their hips. Perhaps a bell attached to the
> kitty's collar would alert you to his presence and then you can take
> the necessary precaution to beware of stepping on him.

Bell won't help. We have one (Sara) a black female, who will sneak up behind
you while you are working in the kitchen and wait there untill you step back
and trip over her. she delights in catching birds, mice, voles, and other
small critters with the bell attached. Some cats are just naturally
sneaky....:^)

MLB[_4_]
August 24th 11, 12:24 AM
On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It is
> a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she tells me
> she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right), just before
> she tries to make me fall or something. It is like I am paying a price
> for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my shoulders, or in my arms.

She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same. My cat tends to
get underfoot too and I have to be very careful. We have a poster on
RPCA who tripped over her cat and received a badly broken shoulder among
other things. Best wishes. MLB

Bohgosity BumaskiL
August 24th 11, 05:17 AM
On 2011-08-23 4:11 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
> honeybunch wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 3:38 pm, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> > wrote:
>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It
>>> is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she
>>> tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right),
>>> just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is like I am
>>> paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my
>>> shoulders, or in my arms.
>>
>> May I ask how old you are? This is often a serious issue with our
>> elders and some go on to develop a fear that their cats will cause
>> them to fall and break their hips. Perhaps a bell attached to the
>> kitty's collar would alert you to his presence and then you can take
>> the necessary precaution to beware of stepping on him.

She never managed to trip me, and I would be willing to fall if it would
keep her from getting hurt. She will yowl upon contact. Like I said, she
foreshadows herself, too. One time, though, if I hadn't picked up my
right foot, then her left front paw would've been broken, or her
shoulder dislocated.

> Bell won't help. We have one (Sara) a black female, who will sneak up
> behind you while you are working in the kitchen and wait there untill
> you step back and trip over her. she delights in catching birds, mice,
> voles, and other small critters with the bell attached. Some cats are
> just naturally sneaky....:^)

....critters with the bell attached...to your cat...dangling participle.

[She delights in having a bell attached while she catches birds, mice,
voles, and other small critters.]

I spent some trouble nudjing her with my foot after the last time. By
trouble, I mean that I might pay for that in having her lick my hair
when I sit, instead of getting into my arms, or she might step in front
of my monitor, and she knows I hate that.

I think it is a behaviour that will fade. Like most things, though,
especially in cats, it is a behaviour that will never entirely disappear.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/ BrewJay's Babble Bin

Bohgosity BumaskiL
August 24th 11, 05:21 AM
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On 2011-08-23 5:24 PM, MLB wrote:
> On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago.
>> It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think
>> she tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my
>> right), just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is
>> like I am paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or
>> on my shoulders, or in my arms.
>
> She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same.

However safe she feels in trying to make a game or something out of
this, I do not like the sound of a cat who anticipates pain, or a
frightened yowl.

> My cat tends to get underfoot too and I have to be very careful.
> We have a poster on RPCA who tripped over her cat and received a
> badly broken shoulder among other things. Best wishes. MLB

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Bill Graham
August 24th 11, 06:41 AM
Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
> On 2011-08-23 4:11 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
>> honeybunch wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 3:38 pm, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>>> > wrote:
>>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago.
>>>> It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she
>>>> tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my
>>>> right), just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is
>>>> like I am paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or
>>>> on my shoulders, or in my arms.
>>>
>>> May I ask how old you are? This is often a serious issue with our
>>> elders and some go on to develop a fear that their cats will cause
>>> them to fall and break their hips. Perhaps a bell attached to the
>>> kitty's collar would alert you to his presence and then you can take
>>> the necessary precaution to beware of stepping on him.
>
> She never managed to trip me, and I would be willing to fall if it
> would keep her from getting hurt. She will yowl upon contact. Like I
> said, she foreshadows herself, too. One time, though, if I hadn't
> picked up my right foot, then her left front paw would've been
> broken, or her shoulder dislocated.
>
>> Bell won't help. We have one (Sara) a black female, who will sneak up
>> behind you while you are working in the kitchen and wait there untill
>> you step back and trip over her. she delights in catching birds,
>> mice, voles, and other small critters with the bell attached. Some
>> cats are just naturally sneaky....:^)
>
> ...critters with the bell attached...to your cat...dangling
> participle.


The bell Jingles, and the participle dangles.....

Mack A. Damia
August 24th 11, 09:35 AM
On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:21:47 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> wrote:

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>On 2011-08-23 5:24 PM, MLB wrote:
>> On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago.
>>> It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think
>>> she tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my
>>> right), just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is
>>> like I am paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or
>>> on my shoulders, or in my arms.
>>
>> She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same.
>
>However safe she feels in trying to make a game or something out of
>this, I do not like the sound of a cat who anticipates pain, or a
>frightened yowl.

Has happened to mine more than once, but I find that they will avoid
uncomfortable situations, and if they get stepped on a couple of times
eventually they will learn to stay away.

Mine had started sleeping next to me, but I'm restless in bed and roll
around a lot. She doesn't do it any longer - or she will stay on my
bed until I am ready to go to sleep. Then she'll go find her own
spot. I don't think she she loves me any less; yet, she senses that
sleeping next to me may bring unpleasantness.

She stays away from my feet in the kitchen, too.

Doug Bashford[_2_]
August 24th 11, 06:18 PM
about: Under foot and getting worse.;
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:


> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago. It is
> a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think she tells me
> she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my right), just before
> she tries to make me fall or something.

No what is happening is very simple.
You are training your cat to do that.
(She is training you, same-same in these cases.)
Now figure out how yer doing that, and stop it.

Wild guess...........?
You step on her, then coddle and fondle, or
otherwise reward her, .....perhaps even as you
coo "bad cat" to her.

> It is like I am paying a price for a cat that likes
> to be in my lap, or on my shoulders, or in my arms.

Yer not even fooling yerself with that line.
You know that's not true.
Stop looking for softeners, they blur reality.

You have a cool cat!
Change yer evil ways before one of you gets hurt.

But you've already done some damage to her.
So merely stopping your malbehavior will not
be enough for a quick (if ever) fix.
Now you must pay the piper.
Now you must give her punishment,
such as from a squirt bottle or finger-flick
to the ear flap, something substantial and
unambiguous.

--Doug

Reinforcement From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZPjMJg-qOKoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement+negative+reward&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Helpful definitions:
* Appetitive stimulus: a pleasant outcome
* Aversive stimulus: an unpleasant outcome

Forms of operant conditioning:

* Positive reinforcement: the adding of an appetitive
stimulus to increase a certain behavior or response.
Example: Father gives candy to his daughter when she
picks up her toys.
* Positive punishment: the adding of an aversive
stimulus to decrease a certain behavior or response.
Example: Mother yells at a child when running into the
street.
*Negative reinforcement: ....snip




The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

MLB[_4_]
August 24th 11, 07:12 PM
On 08/24/2011 02:35 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:21:47 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> > wrote:
>
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>> On 2011-08-23 5:24 PM, MLB wrote:
>>> On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
>>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago.
>>>> It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think
>>>> she tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my
>>>> right), just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is
>>>> like I am paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or
>>>> on my shoulders, or in my arms.
>>>
>>> She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same.
>>
>> However safe she feels in trying to make a game or something out of
>> this, I do not like the sound of a cat who anticipates pain, or a
>> frightened yowl.
>
> Has happened to mine more than once, but I find that they will avoid
> uncomfortable situations, and if they get stepped on a couple of times
> eventually they will learn to stay away.
>
> Mine had started sleeping next to me, but I'm restless in bed and roll
> around a lot. She doesn't do it any longer - or she will stay on my
> bed until I am ready to go to sleep. Then she'll go find her own
> spot. I don't think she she loves me any less; yet, she senses that
> sleeping next to me may bring unpleasantness.
>
> She stays away from my feet in the kitchen, too.
>
>
>TuTu used to sleep by my head -- did so for years. One night I had a nightmare (can't remember it) and I tossed her across the room. She has never slept with me since that happened.

Mack A. Damia
August 24th 11, 07:30 PM
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:12:25 -0600, MLB > wrote:

>On 08/24/2011 02:35 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:21:47 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>>>
>>> On 2011-08-23 5:24 PM, MLB wrote:
>>>> On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
>>>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five minutes ago.
>>>>> It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not sure, and I think
>>>>> she tells me she will run under whichever foot is up (usually my
>>>>> right), just before she tries to make me fall or something. It is
>>>>> like I am paying a price for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or
>>>>> on my shoulders, or in my arms.
>>>>
>>>> She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same.
>>>
>>> However safe she feels in trying to make a game or something out of
>>> this, I do not like the sound of a cat who anticipates pain, or a
>>> frightened yowl.
>>
>> Has happened to mine more than once, but I find that they will avoid
>> uncomfortable situations, and if they get stepped on a couple of times
>> eventually they will learn to stay away.
>>
>> Mine had started sleeping next to me, but I'm restless in bed and roll
>> around a lot. She doesn't do it any longer - or she will stay on my
>> bed until I am ready to go to sleep. Then she'll go find her own
>> spot. I don't think she she loves me any less; yet, she senses that
>> sleeping next to me may bring unpleasantness.
>>
>> She stays away from my feet in the kitchen, too.
>>
>>
>>TuTu used to sleep by my head -- did so for years. One night I had a nightmare (can't remember it) and I tossed her across the room. She has never slept with me since that happened.

Occasionally I will find her curled up beside me, but she always walks
on my head at about 3:30 in the morning to wake me up for breakfast.
This has to stop. It's easy enough as I have a large place, but it's
a matter of finding the right places to put her litter box and some
water.

It's a double bind, too, because I do like her to be close and would
prefer not to shut her out of my bedroom at nights.

Bohgosity BumaskiL
August 31st 11, 12:01 PM
On 2011-08-24 12:30 PM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:12:25 -0600, MLB > wrote:
>
>> On 08/24/2011 02:35 AM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:21:47 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-08-23 5:24 PM, MLB wrote:
>>>>> On 08/21/2011 01:38 PM, Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
>>>>>> I hav stepped on her many, many times, and just five
>>>>>> minutes ago. It is a wonder she never gets hurt. I am not
>>>>>> sure, and I think she tells me she will run under whichever
>>>>>> foot is up (usually my right), just before she tries to
>>>>>> make me fall or something. It is like I am paying a price
>>>>>> for a cat that likes to be in my lap, or on my shoulders,
>>>>>> or in my arms.
>>>>>
>>>>> She feels safe by you. Sorry you don't feel the same.
>>>>
>>>> However safe she feels in trying to make a game or something
>>>> out of this, I do not like the sound of a cat who anticipates
>>>> pain, or a frightened yowl.
>>>
>>> Has happened to mine more than once, but I find that they will
>>> avoid uncomfortable situations, and if they get stepped on a
>>> couple of times eventually they will learn to stay away.
>>>
>>> Mine had started sleeping next to me, but I'm restless in bed and
>>> roll around a lot. She doesn't do it any longer - or she will
>>> stay on my bed until I am ready to go to sleep. Then she'll go
>>> find her own spot. I don't think she she loves me any less; yet,
>>> she senses that sleeping next to me may bring unpleasantness.
>>>
>>> She stays away from my feet in the kitchen, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> TuTu used to sleep by my head -- did so for years. One night I
>>> had a nightmare (can't remember it) and I tossed her across the
>>> room. She has never slept with me since that happened.
>
> Occasionally I will find her curled up beside me, but she always
> walks on my head at about 3:30 in the morning to wake me up for
> breakfast. This has to stop. It's easy enough as I have a large
> place, but it's a matter of finding the right places to put her
> litter box and some water.
>
> It's a double bind, too, because I do like her to be close and would
> prefer not to shut her out of my bedroom at nights.

My owner's litter box is in my bathroom, and her water is in my kitchen.
Sometimes, I shut her out of my bedroom. It does not seem necessary,
now, though sometimes it seems like my biological clock was made in
India. She wakes me up at a reasonable hour, like when the sun
comes up. All she does to wake me up is scratch my face with her
whiskers. On rare occasions, when I feel like sleeping on my back, she
will sleep in the crook of my right arm, which I brace with a blanket.
Much more often, she is on my left side.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/ BrewJay's Babble Bin

Bohgosity BumaskiL
August 31st 11, 12:14 PM
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On 2011-08-24 11:18 AM, Doug Bashford wrote:
(...)
> Now you must give her punishment, such as from a squirt bottle or
> finger-flick to the ear flap, something substantial and
> unambiguous.
(...)

Cats do not respond well to punishment.
Even growling at them might be a bad idea.
She does not like being picked up, although
she tolerates it, sometimes. I've picked her
up a few times, and let her know in the tone
of my voice that it was her fault. That is
enough, although I've prodded her with my feet,
too. Her behaviour of being under foot is fading.
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