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Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 21st 11, 04:13 PM
...... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about taking the
unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What about the
pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know what method your
shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into getting involved to
save these two hapless groups of kitties?

dgk
September 22nd 11, 04:23 PM
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:13:23 -0500, "Kelly Greene"
> wrote:

>..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about taking the
>unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What about the
>pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know what method your
>shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into getting involved to
>save these two hapless groups of kitties?

I've done some TNR and had to bring in a pregnant cat that got aborted
and fixed. Otherwise we would have had to deal with 4 or so new
kittens.

Kelly, there are SO many cats/kittens that need a home, can we really
have all pregnant cats deliver their litters before being fixed? The
idea of having them aborted is horrible, but otherwise they're just
going to have short and mostly unhappy lives. Or they'll take the
place of another cat that needs a home and that one will be PTS.

Kraut / Larry Stark
September 22nd 11, 05:43 PM
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:23:14 -0400, dgk > wrote:

>
>>..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about taking the
>>unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What about the
>>pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know what method your
>>shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into getting involved to
>>save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>
>I've done some TNR and had to bring in a pregnant cat that got aborted
>and fixed. Otherwise we would have had to deal with 4 or so new
>kittens.
>
>Kelly, there are SO many cats/kittens that need a home, can we really
>have all pregnant cats deliver their litters before being fixed? The
>idea of having them aborted is horrible, but otherwise they're just
>going to have short and mostly unhappy lives. Or they'll take the
>place of another cat that needs a home and that one will be PTS.

A person working with ferals / strays has to make hard choices dealing
with them. It would be nice to be able to find homes for all of them
or at least a no kill shelter but it is not always possible.

With winter coming I have had to decide whether to take just weaned
stray kittens about 9 weeks old to a shelter that is not a non kill
place but does adopt out a lot of pets or leave them fend for
themselves even though I do feed them daily when they show up.

Bill Graham
September 22nd 11, 06:41 PM
Kelly Greene wrote:
> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What
> about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into
> getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?

There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can possibly
fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do what little
he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn ones back on it and
withdraw within ones own little world without thinking about anything else.
I would like to rescue and keep every living thing warm, well fed, and
happy, but this is impossible, so I take care of a few rescued cats, and try
not to think about the millions of innocent little animals that starve and
freeze to death every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven".
In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have available to
me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as many starving,
innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats, but I have no way of
helping them. So, I take care of a few cats. That's all I can do. But, when
I die, and find out that there is a heaven and a God, I will reach out and
strangle him when I get the chance..... You can bet on that.

dberrycat
September 22nd 11, 08:09 PM
On Sep 21, 11:13*am, "Kelly Greene" > wrote:
> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? *What about taking the
> unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? *What about the
> pregnant ones they automatically kill? * Do you know what method your
> shelter uses to kill neonates? *Have you looked into getting involved to
> save these two hapless groups of kitties?

I volunteer with the SPCA of Northern VA. We rescue cats and kittens
who are stray,
thrown away, neglected and/or abused. We do not have a shelter, so
all the cats we rescue are
fostered in the homes of volunteers. We are fortunate that the animal
shelter in
our area is very good. It is not no kill, but they work really hard
to find the animals
homes and participate with local rescue groups to work together. We
take cats
and kittens from the shelter when we have foster homes for them. The
shelter had
been very proactive in getting foster homes caring for very young
kittens who
should be with a mother cat.

We also have 2 wonderful volunteers who have developed a neonatal
kitten program
and have taught people at the animal shelter and with other rescue
groups to bottle
feed and care for neonatal kittens. They have periodic classes and
have put together
a great notebook with information, "how to", and resources.

Our group sometimes takes in pregnant cats. If it is early in the
pregnancy, then
our vet will abort the kittens. If it is later in the pregnancy, we
will have them in a
foster home along with the mom until the kittens are old enough to
wean. Then
we find homes for the kittens and the mom. We do sometimes get
kittens that
need to be bottle fed. We have a few volunteers that are able to do
that and the
vet techs who work with some of our vets can sometimes take them to
foster
until they are weaned.

If you are interested in finding out more about caring for neonatal
kittens, I can probably
get you a current copy of the notebook.

Debbie Berry

Gandalf[_4_]
September 22nd 11, 11:15 PM
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:41:59 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Kelly Greene wrote:
>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What
>> about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into
>> getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>
>There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can possibly
>fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do what little
>he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn ones back on it and
>withdraw within ones own little world without thinking about anything else.
>I would like to rescue and keep every living thing warm, well fed, and
>happy, but this is impossible, so I take care of a few rescued cats, and try
>not to think about the millions of innocent little animals that starve and
>freeze to death every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven".
>In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have available to
>me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as many starving,
>innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats, but I have no way of
>helping them. So, I take care of a few cats. That's all I can do. But, when
>I die, and find out that there is a heaven and a God, I will reach out and
>strangle him when I get the chance..... You can bet on that.

I like the way you think.

buglady
September 23rd 11, 03:25 PM
"dberrycat" > wrote in message
...
I volunteer with the SPCA of Northern VA. We rescue cats and kittens
who are stray,thrown away, neglected and/or abused.

............OK, you'd be a good person to ask. How the heck do I get 5-6
week old kittens trapped? I don't think they weigh enough to set off the
trap. The mother is feral, very way and won't come to within 30 feet of me.
Hence she is teaching the kits to act the same. Soon we'll be past the
point that they'll be socializable. I was hoping to get the kittens first,
then keep on feeding her and trap her, get her spayed and release her again.
Hopefully she'll keep coming for food and will warm up so I can get her off
the street. I'm positive she's the sister of a 4 week old with a horrible
URI I took in last Oct.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

dberrycat
September 23rd 11, 08:41 PM
On Sep 23, 10:25*am, "buglady" > wrote:
> "dberrycat" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> I volunteer with the SPCA of Northern VA. *We rescue cats and kittens
> who are stray,thrown away, neglected and/or abused.
>
> ...........OK, you'd be a good person to ask. *How the heck do I get 5-6
> week old kittens trapped? *I don't think they weigh enough to set off the
> trap. *The mother is feral, very way and won't come to within 30 feet of me.
> Hence she is teaching the kits to act the same. *Soon we'll be past the
> point that they'll be socializable. *I was hoping to get the kittens first,
> then keep on feeding her and trap her, get her spayed and release her again.
> Hopefully she'll keep coming for food and will warm up so I can get her off
> the street. *I'm positive she's the sister of a 4 week old with a horrible
> URI I took in last Oct.
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying

At 5-6 weeks old they are old enough to be interested in food. You
can try
putting very stinky wet food in a large carrier and let them get used
to eating
there for a few days before closing the door while they are in there.
You should
give the kittens (and mom too if she comes) at least a few days of
eating
where you will trap them so they get somewhat comfortable. Another
"kitten bait" is meat baby food. Most kittens love that and may be
interested
in it if tuna doesn't work.

You can also try using a drop trap. There are directions on the Alley
Cat
Allies website. http://www.alleycat.org/Page.aspx?pid=366

Here is some information from Alley Cat Allies:

http://www.alleycat.org/

Trapping Tips: Kitten Safety
•When trapping kittens, make sure you are using an appropriately sized
trap, like a Tru-Catch 24 or Tomahawk 104 trap, or any trap made
specifically for kittens. Larger traps, like those used for raccoons
or tomcats, are too powerful for kittens, can put them at risk, and
kittens sometimes are not heavy enough to trip the plate.

•We suggest that you prop open the trap door with a water bottle or
other similarly sized object (like a stick) on a string, so you can
spring the trap manually when all kittens are safely clear of the
door. Once the kitten is fully inside the trap and clear of the door,
pull the string hard and fast to remove the water bottle.

•Make sure to set out at least one trap per kitten, to discourage
kittens from following each other into the same trap. (They may still
do this, but springing the trap manually will make sure no one gets
caught in the trap door.)

You can find a "feral friend" in your area who can advise you. See:
http://www.alleycat.org/Page.aspx?pid=355

Here is some additional information:
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11403

Hope this is helpful.

Debbie

buglady
September 24th 11, 02:40 AM
"dberrycat" > wrote in message
...
At 5-6 weeks old they are old enough to be interested in food. You
can try putting very stinky wet food in a large carrier and let them get
used
to eatingthere for a few days before closing the door while they are in
there.

...............uh, that would be a no go! I can't get within 20 feet of
them. Mama runs off and they follow. But I will try putting food in
carrier to get them used to being in there.

Another"kitten bait" is meat baby food. Most kittens love that and may be
interested in it if tuna doesn't work.

...........I feed my cats raw. It's the first thing they all eat!

You can also try using a drop trap. There are directions on the Alley
Cat
Allies website. http://www.alleycat.org/Page.aspx?pid=366

Here is some additional information:
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11403

...............OK, will check out the info.
Thanks!
buglady
take out the dog before replying

Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 24th 11, 02:44 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:13:23 -0500, "Kelly Greene"
> > wrote:
>
>>..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about taking
>>the
>>unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What about the
>>pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know what method your
>>shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into getting involved to
>>save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>
> I've done some TNR and had to bring in a pregnant cat that got aborted
> and fixed. Otherwise we would have had to deal with 4 or so new
> kittens.
>
> Kelly, there are SO many cats/kittens that need a home, can we really
> have all pregnant cats deliver their litters before being fixed? The
> idea of having them aborted is horrible, but otherwise they're just
> going to have short and mostly unhappy lives. Or they'll take the
> place of another cat that needs a home and that one will be PTS.

I am not against aborting/spaying pregnant cats at all. I'm against them
being killed simply because they're pregnant.

The method to kill neonates where I live is the 2-needle method this is
horrific.

Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 24th 11, 02:45 PM
"kraut / larry stark" > wrote in message
...
>
> With winter coming I have had to decide whether to take just weaned
> stray kittens about 9 weeks old to a shelter that is not a non kill
> place but does adopt out a lot of pets or leave them fend for
> themselves even though I do feed them daily when they show up.
>

As long as they're well fed and have some shelter, they should be OK. But at
the least, spaying the females should be done.

We have a few no-kill rescues here but they're always full.

Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 24th 11, 02:48 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
> Kelly Greene wrote:
>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What
>> about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into
>> getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>
> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do what
> little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn ones back
> on it and withdraw within ones own little world without thinking about
> anything else. I would like to rescue and keep every living thing warm,
> well fed, and happy, but this is impossible, so I take care of a few
> rescued cats, and try not to think about the millions of innocent little
> animals that starve and freeze to death every Winter, courtesy of the
> "kindly old man up in heaven".

I'm starting to lose faith that that kindly old man even exists, what with
what's going on in the world, not just with people but animals as well.

> In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have available to
> me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as many starving,
> innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats, but I have no way of
> helping them. So, I take care of a few cats. That's all I can do. But,
> when I die, and find out that there is a heaven and a God, I will reach
> out and strangle him when I get the chance..... You can bet on that.

LOL!!! :-D That is funny. I was just wondering if anyone here was into
serious rescue work with pregnant cats and unweaned kittens.

Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 24th 11, 03:01 PM
"dberrycat" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 21, 11:13 am, "Kelly Greene" > wrote:
> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about taking the
> unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them? What about the
> pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know what method your
> shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked into getting involved to
> save these two hapless groups of kitties?

I volunteer with the SPCA of Northern VA. We rescue cats and kittens
who are stray,
thrown away, neglected and/or abused. We do not have a shelter, so
all the cats we rescue are
fostered in the homes of volunteers. We are fortunate that the animal
shelter in
our area is very good. It is not no kill, but they work really hard
to find the animals
homes and participate with local rescue groups to work together. We
take cats
and kittens from the shelter when we have foster homes for them. The
shelter had
been very proactive in getting foster homes caring for very young
kittens who
should be with a mother cat.

>Our shelter refuses to work with volunteers or rescues or Pet Store
>adoptions. They can't be bothered. They said it's too hard to keep tract
>of the animals and there were insurance issues. They adopt out only 10% of
>the cats brought in and 30% of the dogs. The pregnant and unweaned are
>automatically euthanized. No one there showed any interest in trying to
>get more adopted out. It's like it's just a job to them.

We also have 2 wonderful volunteers who have developed a neonatal
kitten program
and have taught people at the animal shelter and with other rescue
groups to bottle
feed and care for neonatal kittens. They have periodic classes and
have put together
a great notebook with information, "how to", and resources.

> That is wonderful. Here I was told they're not allowed to bottle feed the
> infants brought in. All unweaned pups and kits get the cruel 2-needle
> method of death. They die in pain if not in agony.

Our group sometimes takes in pregnant cats. If it is early in the
pregnancy, then
our vet will abort the kittens. If it is later in the pregnancy, we
will have them in a
foster home along with the mom until the kittens are old enough to
wean. Then
we find homes for the kittens and the mom. We do sometimes get
kittens that
need to be bottle fed. We have a few volunteers that are able to do
that and the
vet techs who work with some of our vets can sometimes take them to
foster
until they are weaned.

If you are interested in finding out more about caring for neonatal
kittens, I can probably
get you a current copy of the notebook.

> I myself have raised them, and pups on bottles. I know the work involved.
> I wish our County Shelter would turn them over to people like myself. They
> will not. They would rather kill them. The notebook would be fine... can
> it be emailed?

Debbie Berry

Kelly Greene[_4_]
September 24th 11, 03:05 PM
"buglady" > wrote in message
...
>
> Another"kitten bait" is meat baby food. Most kittens love that and may be
> interested in it if tuna doesn't work.
>
> ..........I feed my cats raw. It's the first thing they all eat!
>

Use something raw with a strong aroma like warm turkey livers, gizzards and
hearts.

Bill Graham
September 25th 11, 02:17 AM
Gandalf wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:41:59 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked
>>> into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>>
>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn
>> ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world without
>> thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and keep every
>> living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is impossible, so I
>> take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to think about the
>> millions of innocent little animals that starve and freeze to death
>> every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven". In
>> other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have available
>> to me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as many
>> starving, innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats, but I
>> have no way of helping them. So, I take care of a few cats. That's
>> all I can do. But, when I die, and find out that there is a heaven
>> and a God, I will reach out and strangle him when I get the
>> chance..... You can bet on that.
>
> I like the way you think.

Thanks. But my scenerio of strangling God is not original with me. Read
Yosarian's monolog against God in Joseph Heller's, "Catch 22"......

Bill Graham
September 25th 11, 02:27 AM
Kelly Greene wrote:
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked
>>> into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>>
>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn
>> ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world without
>> thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and keep every
>> living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is impossible, so I
>> take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to think about the
>> millions of innocent little animals that starve and freeze to death
>> every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven".
>
> I'm starting to lose faith that that kindly old man even exists, what
> with what's going on in the world, not just with people but animals
> as well.
>> In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have
>> available to me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as
>> many starving, innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats,
>> but I have no way of helping them. So, I take care of a few cats.
>> That's all I can do. But, when I die, and find out that there is a
>> heaven and a God, I will reach out and strangle him when I get the
>> chance..... You can bet on that.
>
> LOL!!! :-D That is funny. I was just wondering if anyone here was
> into serious rescue work with pregnant cats and unweaned kittens.

Most of the people I have known that do good things in this area, collect
money and use it to trap feral cats and get them fixed before releasing them
back to the wild. The theory is that the kindest thing you can do for ferals
is to not have them born to begin with, and any effort you put toward that
end is money well spent.

dgk
September 26th 11, 04:23 PM
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:17:25 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Gandalf wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:41:59 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>>>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked
>>>> into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>>>
>>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn
>>> ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world without
>>> thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and keep every
>>> living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is impossible, so I
>>> take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to think about the
>>> millions of innocent little animals that starve and freeze to death
>>> every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven". In
>>> other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have available
>>> to me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as many
>>> starving, innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats, but I
>>> have no way of helping them. So, I take care of a few cats. That's
>>> all I can do. But, when I die, and find out that there is a heaven
>>> and a God, I will reach out and strangle him when I get the
>>> chance..... You can bet on that.
>>
>> I like the way you think.
>
>Thanks. But my scenerio of strangling God is not original with me. Read
>Yosarian's monolog against God in Joseph Heller's, "Catch 22"......

One of the great books of all time. "Nurse Sue Ann Ducket bounced back
and forth across the aisle like a ping pong ball with legs". I have no
idea if that is the actual text but that's one of many lines that are
burned into my mind. No wonder I'm so sick.

And I agree. It's a hell of a way to run a world. Living things eating
other living things, death, suffering. That's not how it would work if
I designed it.

dgk
September 26th 11, 04:26 PM
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:27:34 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Kelly Greene wrote:
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you know
>>>> what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you looked
>>>> into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of kitties?
>>>
>>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just turn
>>> ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world without
>>> thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and keep every
>>> living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is impossible, so I
>>> take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to think about the
>>> millions of innocent little animals that starve and freeze to death
>>> every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man up in heaven".
>>
>> I'm starting to lose faith that that kindly old man even exists, what
>> with what's going on in the world, not just with people but animals
>> as well.
>>> In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have
>>> available to me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just as
>>> many starving, innocent, and helpless alligators as there are cats,
>>> but I have no way of helping them. So, I take care of a few cats.
>>> That's all I can do. But, when I die, and find out that there is a
>>> heaven and a God, I will reach out and strangle him when I get the
>>> chance..... You can bet on that.
>>
>> LOL!!! :-D That is funny. I was just wondering if anyone here was
>> into serious rescue work with pregnant cats and unweaned kittens.
>
>Most of the people I have known that do good things in this area, collect
>money and use it to trap feral cats and get them fixed before releasing them
>back to the wild. The theory is that the kindest thing you can do for ferals
>is to not have them born to begin with, and any effort you put toward that
>end is money well spent.

Some can have a very nice life with a little intervention. The cats
that live in the backyards in my area have some homes to live in
(styrofoam with straw) and people feed them and we've had them
neutered. But if a few key folks move away, and we're all getting
older, I don't know who will take over the overseeing. And once in a
while, one does wander into the road and get killed.

Bill Graham
September 27th 11, 05:28 AM
dgk wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:17:25 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> Gandalf wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:41:59 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you
>>>>> know what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you
>>>>> looked into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of
>>>>> kitties?
>>>>
>>>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>>>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>>>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just
>>>> turn ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world
>>>> without thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and
>>>> keep every living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is
>>>> impossible, so I take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to
>>>> think about the millions of innocent little animals that starve
>>>> and freeze to death every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man
>>>> up in heaven". In other words, I do what I can do, for the
>>>> creatures I have available to me, and can live with. I am sure
>>>> that there are just as many starving, innocent, and helpless
>>>> alligators as there are cats, but I have no way of helping them.
>>>> So, I take care of a few cats. That's all I can do. But, when I
>>>> die, and find out that there is a heaven and a God, I will reach
>>>> out and strangle him when I get the chance..... You can bet on
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> I like the way you think.
>>
>> Thanks. But my scenerio of strangling God is not original with me.
>> Read Yosarian's monolog against God in Joseph Heller's, "Catch
>> 22"......
>
> One of the great books of all time. "Nurse Sue Ann Ducket bounced back
> and forth across the aisle like a ping pong ball with legs". I have no
> idea if that is the actual text but that's one of many lines that are
> burned into my mind. No wonder I'm so sick.
>
> And I agree. It's a hell of a way to run a world. Living things eating
> other living things, death, suffering. That's not how it would work if
> I designed it.

Nor I. But what amazes me is that there are so many who worship its
designer. If I believed in him at all, I would hate him, and certainlyt not
worship him. Logically, I have come to the conclusion that most of these
people fear him, and that's why they say they worship him. They worship him
like the Soviets worshiped Josef Stalin....:^)

Bill Graham
September 27th 11, 05:31 AM
dgk wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:27:34 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Kelly Greene wrote:
>>>>> ..... on this group involved with cat/kitten rescue? What about
>>>>> taking the unweaned kits from shelters before they euthanize them?
>>>>> What about the pregnant ones they automatically kill? Do you
>>>>> know what method your shelter uses to kill neonates? Have you
>>>>> looked into getting involved to save these two hapless groups of
>>>>> kitties?
>>>>
>>>> There is so much pain and suffering in this world, that no one can
>>>> possibly fix it all, or even think about all of it. One can only do
>>>> what little he/she can to alleviate a little bit of it, or just
>>>> turn ones back on it and withdraw within ones own little world
>>>> without thinking about anything else. I would like to rescue and
>>>> keep every living thing warm, well fed, and happy, but this is
>>>> impossible, so I take care of a few rescued cats, and try not to
>>>> think about the millions of innocent little animals that starve
>>>> and freeze to death every Winter, courtesy of the "kindly old man
>>>> up in heaven".
>>>
>>> I'm starting to lose faith that that kindly old man even exists,
>>> what with what's going on in the world, not just with people but
>>> animals as well.
>>>> In other words, I do what I can do, for the creatures I have
>>>> available to me, and can live with. I am sure that there are just
>>>> as many starving, innocent, and helpless alligators as there are
>>>> cats, but I have no way of helping them. So, I take care of a few
>>>> cats. That's all I can do. But, when I die, and find out that
>>>> there is a heaven and a God, I will reach out and strangle him
>>>> when I get the chance..... You can bet on that.
>>>
>>> LOL!!! :-D That is funny. I was just wondering if anyone here
>>> was into serious rescue work with pregnant cats and unweaned
>>> kittens.
>>
>> Most of the people I have known that do good things in this area,
>> collect money and use it to trap feral cats and get them fixed
>> before releasing them back to the wild. The theory is that the
>> kindest thing you can do for ferals is to not have them born to
>> begin with, and any effort you put toward that end is money well
>> spent.
>
> Some can have a very nice life with a little intervention. The cats
> that live in the backyards in my area have some homes to live in
> (styrofoam with straw) and people feed them and we've had them
> neutered. But if a few key folks move away, and we're all getting
> older, I don't know who will take over the overseeing. And once in a
> while, one does wander into the road and get killed.

Fortunately, there will always be more geezers like me who come along and,
for a few years, take care of what cats we can.....And, sooner or later, we
will all wander across that road......

dberrycat
September 27th 11, 04:13 PM
<snip>....

> > I myself have raised them, and pups on bottles. *I know the work involved.
> > I wish our County Shelter would turn them over to people like myself. They
> > will not. They would rather kill them. *The notebook would be fine... can
> > it be emailed?
>
> Debbie Berry

I'd assume that they have the notebook chapters on a computer. It is
pretty
long, so I'd probably have to email it one chapter at a time. Let me
check with
the writers and see what the options are. You can email me at
.

Debbie