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dgk
October 11th 11, 01:33 PM
I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?

I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
That should be tough.

Patok[_2_]
October 11th 11, 04:32 PM
dgk wrote:
> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?

The only time I saw such symptoms - weight loss, increased drinking -
turned out to be hyperthyroidism. So that's one thing to check for, if
it isn't already on your list.


> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
> That should be tough.


--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
*
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Bill Graham
October 11th 11, 06:04 PM
dgk wrote:
> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>
> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
> That should be tough.

All of my five cats drink water regularly. It is probably because they
frequently eat kibbles which they always have available. Also, being,
"outside cats", they are quite active. Also, their water bowl is in out
living room, on a coffee table right in fron of us, so we see them when they
drink. It is possible that many cats are "closet drinkers" and drink a lot
without observation by their owners.

Gandalf[_4_]
October 11th 11, 09:15 PM
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:33:24 -0400, dgk > wrote:

>I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>
>I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>That should be tough.

There is an easy way to get a urine sample, but it doesn't work with all
cats, unfortunately.

Put some heavy duty clear food wrap over the litter in your litter box,
(leave it 'loose, so the cat can step on the actual litter, through the
plastic) or put a clear plastic bag over the litter.(Put the litter box
inside the plastic bag, so it can't move.)

With some luck, you cat will pee on the plastic, and you will have a
urine sample.

I used an old syringe to draw up the liquid and put it in a small
container. An old, clean eye dropper would work, as well.

Good luck.

William Hamblen[_2_]
October 12th 11, 02:24 AM
On 2011-10-11, Gandalf > wrote:
>
> There is an easy way to get a urine sample, but it doesn't work with all
> cats, unfortunately.
>
Easier still is to let the vet do it. The cat could spend the day at the
vets. I've done that. Early renal failure also can produce excessive
drinking and weight loss.

Bud

MaryL[_2_]
October 12th 11, 05:52 AM
"dgk" wrote in message ...

I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?

I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
That should be tough.

- - - - - - - - - -

I would be particularly concerned about kidneys and thyroid, especially with
Espy's weight loss. Please keep us updated.

MaryL

dgk
October 12th 11, 02:14 PM
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:15:49 -0400, Gandalf >
wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:33:24 -0400, dgk > wrote:
>
>>I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>>drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>>tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>>he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>>concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>>I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>
>>I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>>on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>>That should be tough.
>
>There is an easy way to get a urine sample, but it doesn't work with all
>cats, unfortunately.
>
>Put some heavy duty clear food wrap over the litter in your litter box,
>(leave it 'loose, so the cat can step on the actual litter, through the
>plastic) or put a clear plastic bag over the litter.(Put the litter box
>inside the plastic bag, so it can't move.)
>
>With some luck, you cat will pee on the plastic, and you will have a
>urine sample.
>
>I used an old syringe to draw up the liquid and put it in a small
>container. An old, clean eye dropper would work, as well.
>
>Good luck.

That's clever, but with four cats not so easy. Also, Espy mostly uses
the litter robot which is an automated litterbox which makes it even
tougher. Maybe letting the vet get it is a good idea.

dgk
October 12th 11, 02:38 PM
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:52:48 -0500, "MaryL"
> wrote:

>
>
>"dgk" wrote in message ...
>
>I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>
>I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>That should be tough.
>
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>I would be particularly concerned about kidneys and thyroid, especially with
>Espy's weight loss. Please keep us updated.
>
>MaryL

I called the vet to doublecheck and asked specifically about the
thyroid results. He said that oddly there were no thyroid results even
though they were ordered. Turns out the lab (or the vet) made a
mistake and they weren't done, so I bring Espy back to the vet today
and they will get it done. No charge of course since I did pay for it
already.

Good thing I posted about it here because otherwise I'd be sure that
he was ok and not worry about it until it got worse. Of course, he
could still be perfectly fine but I do want to follow up. I tend to
be a bit overprotective with Espy since he's such an amazing cat. Not
that I love the others any less and I'd do the same for them, but Espy
is special.

Rene[_2_]
October 12th 11, 03:07 PM
On Oct 11, 7:33*am, dgk > wrote:
> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>
> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
> That should be tough.

What kind of diet is Epsy eating? If you're feeding wet food and he's
still drinking, then I'd be concerned. I feed our three all wet, and
since wet has a high volume of water, they rarely need to drink from
the water bowl. If you feed dry, then I would not be as concerned,
since dry is only 10% moisture. (Though, I am not crazy about a dry
only diet. See this article about feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/)

The weight loss is a bit alarming--did you get a full bloodwork panel
done to check levels? Do you feed the cats separately--is someone
stealing his food?

chaniarts[_2_]
October 12th 11, 03:30 PM
On 10/12/2011 6:14 AM, dgk wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:15:49 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:33:24 -0400, > wrote:
>>
>>> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>>> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>>> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>>> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>>> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>>> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>>
>>> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>>> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>>> That should be tough.
>>
>> There is an easy way to get a urine sample, but it doesn't work with all
>> cats, unfortunately.
>>
>> Put some heavy duty clear food wrap over the litter in your litter box,
>> (leave it 'loose, so the cat can step on the actual litter, through the
>> plastic) or put a clear plastic bag over the litter.(Put the litter box
>> inside the plastic bag, so it can't move.)
>>
>> With some luck, you cat will pee on the plastic, and you will have a
>> urine sample.
>>
>> I used an old syringe to draw up the liquid and put it in a small
>> container. An old, clean eye dropper would work, as well.
>>
>> Good luck.
>
> That's clever, but with four cats not so easy. Also, Espy mostly uses
> the litter robot which is an automated litterbox which makes it even
> tougher. Maybe letting the vet get it is a good idea.

the vet has hard plastic based granules that cats mistake for real
litter, but they're non-absorbant.

MLB[_4_]
October 12th 11, 07:38 PM
On 10/11/2011 06:33 AM, dgk wrote:
> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>
> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
> That should be tough.

TuTu has a diet of Fancy Feast with Iams kibble always available. When
she eats the kibble, she always goes and gets a good drink of water.
She is about 15 years old now. I always have fresh water available --
one tub in the shower stall and the other in the bath tub. This, of
course, helps in case of a spill. I tried a couple of cat fountains but
that was messy. She would try to pry the top off the reservoir and
really mess things up. Best wishes. MLB

jmc[_2_]
October 12th 11, 09:54 PM
Suddenly, without warning, chaniarts exclaimed (10/12/2011 10:30 AM):

> the vet has hard plastic based granules that cats mistake for real
> litter, but they're non-absorbant.
>

*some* cats mistake them for real litter. Mine hates them and pees
outside the box if they are in there.

Whenever my cat needs to give a urine sample, we generally end up doing
the ... I forget the name, but it involves a needle. All the other
usual methods just don't work for her, multiple vets have tried. I like
the plastic wrap idea, but that wouldn't work for my cat either, because
she *has* to dig. And dig, and dig.

So, to get back to Espy, you don't necessarily have to leave her at the
vet all day. If you can get her in with a full bladder, they can
express her (Meep has a sphincter of iron, apparently, this has never
been successful), or they can use a needle to get a sample.

jmc

Gandalf[_4_]
October 13th 11, 04:20 AM
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 20:24:35 -0500, William Hamblen
> wrote:

>On 2011-10-11, Gandalf > wrote:
>>
>> There is an easy way to get a urine sample, but it doesn't work with all
>> cats, unfortunately.
>>
>Easier still is to let the vet do it. The cat could spend the day at the
>vets. I've done that. Early renal failure also can produce excessive
>drinking and weight loss.
>
>Bud

That would work, but costs more.

Life is very easy, if you are handy with money.

I'm not.

Hyperthyroidism would explain the weight loss.

The increased metabolic rate would require more water, but not like the
thirst that diabetes causes.

If it was my cat, I would have a full blood panel done, including a T4
level.

And: I hope it's not renal failure, as that is the most difficult to
treat and manage, long term.

Gandalf[_4_]
October 13th 11, 04:38 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:38:30 -0400, dgk > wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:52:48 -0500, "MaryL"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"dgk" wrote in message ...
>>
>>I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>>drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>>tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>>he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>>concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>>I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>
>>I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>>on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>>That should be tough.
>>
>>- - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>I would be particularly concerned about kidneys and thyroid, especially with
>>Espy's weight loss. Please keep us updated.
>>
>>MaryL
>
>I called the vet to doublecheck and asked specifically about the
>thyroid results. He said that oddly there were no thyroid results even
>though they were ordered. Turns out the lab (or the vet) made a
>mistake and they weren't done, so I bring Espy back to the vet today
>and they will get it done. No charge of course since I did pay for it
>already.
>
>Good thing I posted about it here because otherwise I'd be sure that
>he was ok and not worry about it until it got worse. Of course, he
>could still be perfectly fine but I do want to follow up. I tend to
>be a bit overprotective with Espy since he's such an amazing cat. Not
>that I love the others any less and I'd do the same for them, but Espy
>is special.

Everyone who really understands cats, should understand 'special cats'.

They are fairly rare.

I've had TWO of them; both sadly gone now :(

dgk
October 13th 11, 01:44 PM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:07:54 -0700 (PDT), Rene
> wrote:

>On Oct 11, 7:33*am, dgk > wrote:
>> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>
>> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>> That should be tough.
>
>What kind of diet is Epsy eating? If you're feeding wet food and he's
>still drinking, then I'd be concerned. I feed our three all wet, and
>since wet has a high volume of water, they rarely need to drink from
>the water bowl. If you feed dry, then I would not be as concerned,
>since dry is only 10% moisture. (Though, I am not crazy about a dry
>only diet. See this article about feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/)
>
>The weight loss is a bit alarming--did you get a full bloodwork panel
>done to check levels? Do you feed the cats separately--is someone
>stealing his food?

We're waiting for the thyroid panel now; results come tomorrow
afternoon. I'm a bit concerned since he drank again this morning after
eating. I have one of those plastic fountains right by the eating
area. He has to walk past it to get out.

The four cats get a mostly wet diet although they do get some dry food
(Royal Canin or some other "quality" brand). Espy is a very difficult
eater - he does not like most wet food and usually sniffs it and walks
away. Even when he eats, he'll lap up the liquid and generally leave
most of the solid food behind. Finding something that he likes is not
easy. Lately we've been eating a lot of Soulistic Good Karma (green
can) which I sometimes can find at Petco for around $1.30 a can.

He had a urinary blockage a few years ago so I really try to avoid
giving him dry food even though he clearly prefers that. He's alpha
cat though; even Scooter can't steal his food until he walks away.
He's a grazer I think, he likes to eat a bit, leave, and come back
later for more. But with Scooter and Marlo around there isn't going to
be anything more.

Mostly I think the reason that he loses weight will probably just turn
out to be that he doesn't eat enough. IAt least, that's what I'm
hoping.

dgk
October 13th 11, 01:50 PM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:38:34 -0600, MLB > wrote:

>On 10/11/2011 06:33 AM, dgk wrote:
>> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>
>> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>> That should be tough.
>
>TuTu has a diet of Fancy Feast with Iams kibble always available. When
>she eats the kibble, she always goes and gets a good drink of water.
>She is about 15 years old now. I always have fresh water available --
>one tub in the shower stall and the other in the bath tub. This, of
>course, helps in case of a spill. I tried a couple of cat fountains but
>that was messy. She would try to pry the top off the reservoir and
>really mess things up. Best wishes. MLB

That's funny. Our fountain sits on a bathmat which holds down the
noise of the pump (not really loud anyway) and absorbs any spills. But
lately Scooter has been pulling at the bathmat - HARD. Why? I have no
idea, he's a cat, who could hope to understand? But it's hard enough
to cause the water to splash and create mini-tsunamis. I think that
entertains him somehow since he looks at the moving water. They're so
weird.

jmc[_2_]
October 16th 11, 12:23 AM
Suddenly, without warning, dgk exclaimed (10/13/2011 8:44 AM):
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:07:54 -0700 (PDT), Rene
> > wrote:
>
>> On Oct 11, 7:33 am, > wrote:
>>> I took Espy (fixed male 8yo DSH) to the vet because I've noticed him
>>> drinking water a few times and he doesn't normally do that. The vet
>>> tested him and the results show that the does not have diabetes, but
>>> he has dropped from 9 to 8 lbs over the last year. The vet isn't
>>> concerned but I watched Espy take a good long drink this morning so
>>> I'm wondering what else might prompt this behavior?
>>>
>>> I did take a quick look online and I think I'll call the vet to check
>>> on other possiblilities - looks like I'll need to get a urine sample.
>>> That should be tough.
>>
>> What kind of diet is Epsy eating? If you're feeding wet food and he's
>> still drinking, then I'd be concerned. I feed our three all wet, and
>> since wet has a high volume of water, they rarely need to drink from
>> the water bowl. If you feed dry, then I would not be as concerned,
>> since dry is only 10% moisture. (Though, I am not crazy about a dry
>> only diet. See this article about feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/)
>>
>> The weight loss is a bit alarming--did you get a full bloodwork panel
>> done to check levels? Do you feed the cats separately--is someone
>> stealing his food?
>
> We're waiting for the thyroid panel now; results come tomorrow
> afternoon. I'm a bit concerned since he drank again this morning after
> eating. I have one of those plastic fountains right by the eating
> area. He has to walk past it to get out.
>
> The four cats get a mostly wet diet although they do get some dry food
> (Royal Canin or some other "quality" brand). Espy is a very difficult
> eater - he does not like most wet food and usually sniffs it and walks
> away. Even when he eats, he'll lap up the liquid and generally leave
> most of the solid food behind. Finding something that he likes is not
> easy. Lately we've been eating a lot of Soulistic Good Karma (green
> can) which I sometimes can find at Petco for around $1.30 a can.
>
> He had a urinary blockage a few years ago so I really try to avoid
> giving him dry food even though he clearly prefers that. He's alpha
> cat though; even Scooter can't steal his food until he walks away.
> He's a grazer I think, he likes to eat a bit, leave, and come back
> later for more. But with Scooter and Marlo around there isn't going to
> be anything more.
>
> Mostly I think the reason that he loses weight will probably just turn
> out to be that he doesn't eat enough. IAt least, that's what I'm
> hoping.
>
>

I've kind of lost track of this thread but is the vet considering kidney
problems? Excessive drinking and weight loss are two symptoms. My cat
was just diagnosed today with the beginnings of kidney disease. Her
symptoms were no appetite, nausea (licking lips), rapid weight loss and
dehydration.

If your vet is not considering Espy's kidneys, he should be.

I hear you about the wet food though - that's my challenge with Meep as
well. She ate only dry the first 7 years of her life, because that was
the recommendation back then. When she was first diagnosed with
cystitis, that began a long battle to get her to eat only wet food.
She's a carboholic and does love her kibbles, but even a small amount
can trigger a cystitis attack. It's an ongoing battle. With the
kibble, she was fat. On wet, she's been clearly healthier, but she
won't eat it consistently and thus is often on the thin side - not a bad
thing for her arthritis but it's a fine line between OK thin and too thin.

FWIW I have the best luck getting her to eat with Fancy Feast varieties
and Max Cat. She'll often eat Wellness Chicken and Herring as well.

If you have a really high-end pet store around, look for ... I can't
think of the name and I ran out a few days ago, but it's often found
with the dog food - medallions of freeze-dried chicken. It is expensive
so I top-dress her dry with half a crumbled medallion. When she won't
eat that I know she's really feeling ill.

Good luck with Espy and I hope you get his health sorted out soon!

jmc

dgk
October 17th 11, 01:54 PM
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:23:47 -0400, jmc >
wrote:

>Suddenly, without warning, dgk exclaimed (10/13/2011 8:44 AM):
>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:07:54 -0700 (PDT), Rene
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 11, 7:33 am, > wrote:
....
>>
>> Mostly I think the reason that he loses weight will probably just turn
>> out to be that he doesn't eat enough. IAt least, that's what I'm
>> hoping.
>>
>>
>
>I've kind of lost track of this thread but is the vet considering kidney
>problems? Excessive drinking and weight loss are two symptoms. My cat
>was just diagnosed today with the beginnings of kidney disease. Her
>symptoms were no appetite, nausea (licking lips), rapid weight loss and
>dehydration.
>
>If your vet is not considering Espy's kidneys, he should be.
>
>I hear you about the wet food though - that's my challenge with Meep as
>well. She ate only dry the first 7 years of her life, because that was
>the recommendation back then. When she was first diagnosed with
>cystitis, that began a long battle to get her to eat only wet food.
>She's a carboholic and does love her kibbles, but even a small amount
>can trigger a cystitis attack. It's an ongoing battle. With the
>kibble, she was fat. On wet, she's been clearly healthier, but she
>won't eat it consistently and thus is often on the thin side - not a bad
>thing for her arthritis but it's a fine line between OK thin and too thin.
>
>FWIW I have the best luck getting her to eat with Fancy Feast varieties
>and Max Cat. She'll often eat Wellness Chicken and Herring as well.
>
>If you have a really high-end pet store around, look for ... I can't
>think of the name and I ran out a few days ago, but it's often found
>with the dog food - medallions of freeze-dried chicken. It is expensive
>so I top-dress her dry with half a crumbled medallion. When she won't
>eat that I know she's really feeling ill.
>
>Good luck with Espy and I hope you get his health sorted out soon!
>
>jmc

Thanks, I'm purring for Meep. All of Espy's tests turned out normal.
Thyroid, Kidney, Glucose, CBC, etc. So, whatever it is isn't one of
the above. I notice no change in behavior other than more drinking.

He drank again this morning after eating. I'll just keep an eye on him
and make sure that he's peeing.