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View Full Version : Aerokat and Flixotide, for feline "asthma"


Eddy[_2_]
November 12th 11, 03:01 PM
Some of you were very kind with your views two months ago when Puss here
developed serious asthma attacks. Since then the vet has been
experimenting and the latest experiment was to give him a steroid
injection. It worked brilliantly: instantly stopping the attacks. But
then after five days they began to return.

So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
his first puff last night while he was resting.

The directions that come with the Flixotide are for humans, so I'm
wondering if anyone can give any tips for cats. The directions say an
adult human should take one puff per day in the resting state and with
no treatment-interruptions.

Does this mean that Puss should also have a puff every day, or should it
be once every two days, or three days?

Thanks.
Eddy.

Gandalf[_4_]
November 12th 11, 09:18 PM
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:01:18 GMT, Eddy
> wrote:

>
>Some of you were very kind with your views two months ago when Puss here
>developed serious asthma attacks. Since then the vet has been
>experimenting and the latest experiment was to give him a steroid
>injection. It worked brilliantly: instantly stopping the attacks. But
>then after five days they began to return.
>
>So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
>his first puff last night while he was resting.
>
>The directions that come with the Flixotide are for humans, so I'm
>wondering if anyone can give any tips for cats. The directions say an
>adult human should take one puff per day in the resting state and with
>no treatment-interruptions.
>
>Does this mean that Puss should also have a puff every day, or should it
>be once every two days, or three days?
>
>Thanks.
>Eddy.

Everyone is different. With people, the MD's can do tests, to measure
how bad your asthma is, and get a good idea of how much asthma
medication to use.

Using systemic steroids, via injection or by oral administration will
control the asthma, but corticosteroids used long term take a VERY heavy
toll on cats and humans, later in life.

For your cat, you will have to experiment with how much of the inhaler
to use. Basically, you want to use as little as possible, while keeping
his asthma under control.

I have asthma, and mine is MUCH worse in the winter, due to cold, dry
air.This is backwards from most people, who's asthma is better in the
winter, due to less allergens in the air.

So, I have to use 2 to 4 times as much asthma meds (inhaled) in the
winter.

If I was in your shoes, I would give one puff per day for a week or so,
and then try very slowly reducing the dose: skip a day, every third day,
then every second day, then every other day, and see how he does.

With people, you can just ask them how they feel, and they know if they
are getting enough asthma medication.

With your cat, you will have to observe him very closely, and titrate
his asthma med(s), based his symptoms, as best as you can tell.

Good luck.

Eddy[_2_]
November 13th 11, 03:46 PM
Gandalf wrote:
> Using systemic steroids, via injection or by oral administration will
> control the asthma, but corticosteroids used long term take a VERY heavy
> toll on cats and humans, later in life.
>
> For your cat, you will have to experiment with how much of the inhaler
> to use. Basically, you want to use as little as possible, while keeping
> his asthma under control.
>
> I have asthma, and mine is MUCH worse in the winter, due to cold, dry
> air.This is backwards from most people, who's asthma is better in the
> winter, due to less allergens in the air.
>
> If I was in your shoes, I would give one puff per day for a week or so,
> and then try very slowly reducing the dose: skip a day, every third day,
> then every second day, then every other day, and see how he does.

Gandalf, thanks very much for this advice.

I didn't know that long-term use of Flixotide is damaging, so will
follow your suggestion re. slowly cutting back after a week or so, to
determine what Puss needs.

Will also make a note that his needs could vary by season.

Thanks a lot.

Eddy.

Gandalf[_4_]
November 13th 11, 09:22 PM
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:46:04 GMT, Eddy
> wrote:

>Gandalf wrote:
>> Using systemic steroids, via injection or by oral administration will
>> control the asthma, but corticosteroids used long term take a VERY heavy
>> toll on cats and humans, later in life.
>>
>> For your cat, you will have to experiment with how much of the inhaler
>> to use. Basically, you want to use as little as possible, while keeping
>> his asthma under control.
>>
>> I have asthma, and mine is MUCH worse in the winter, due to cold, dry
>> air.This is backwards from most people, who's asthma is better in the
>> winter, due to less allergens in the air.
>>
>> If I was in your shoes, I would give one puff per day for a week or so,
>> and then try very slowly reducing the dose: skip a day, every third day,
>> then every second day, then every other day, and see how he does.
>
>Gandalf, thanks very much for this advice.
>
>I didn't know that long-term use of Flixotide is damaging, so will
>follow your suggestion re. slowly cutting back after a week or so, to
>determine what Puss needs.
>
>Will also make a note that his needs could vary by season.
>
>Thanks a lot.
>
>Eddy.

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself as clear as I should have.

When I said systemic corticosteroids do long term damage, I was
referring to the injections of steroids, or the administration of oral
steroids, like prednisone

INHALED steroids have a MUCH lesser effect systemically, on a person or
cat.

And, in fact, I use the same inhaled steroid that your vet prescribed
for your cat. They have a much, much less incidence of the problems seen
with long term use of prednisone, for example.

Medications for asthma can be very expensive.

I had an older cat who needed several medications, and I used to have my
vet write out prescriptions, and I got them filled at either Costco, or
Sam's Club; whichever was cheaper.

My vet used to write prescriptions for the LOWEST 'human sized' dose of
medication, and I would cut tablets in half, or into quarter tablets.

I called around, and those two places were the least expensive. By a
LOT, compared to the Walgreens store that is nearby.

And, you DON'T need a membership to buy prescription medication for
yourself, (or your cat), at ANY store that sells prescription
medication.

In the USA, there is a Federal law that states that a store CANNOT
require you to buy a membership, in order to buy prescription
medications.

When you go into Sam's Club, or Costco, and they ask you to see your
membership card, just tell them you are getting a prescription.

If you are getting the asthma medications directly from your vet, just
call some pharmacies, and see if you can buy the same medication for
less. Then, just ask for vet for a written prescription.

If you need to give your cat oral medication, you may, as I said, need
to cut tablets in half or quarters, depending on the dosage. I got
REALLY good at cutting up tablets, using a straight razor blade, and I
saved a LOT of money on medication.

Last but not least: my asthma is so bad, especially in the winter, that
I normally use my inhaler multiple times, TWICE a day.

Depending on how bad your cat's asthma is, you may need to give him the
medication 2x per day.

I would recommend discussing this with your vet.

And, then feel free to try to cut the dosage later, when your cat's
asthma is under control.

The least amount of medication you use, that keeps your cat's asthma
under control, is the best for him.

Basically, that applies to most medications, used long term, for cats as
well as humans.

Good luck with your cat's asthma.

Asthma isn't any fun to have, but it's fairly easy to control, with the
medications that are available now.

Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds
November 13th 11, 10:59 PM
In article >,
Eddy > wrote:

> Some of you were very kind with your views two months ago when Puss here
> developed serious asthma attacks. Since then the vet has been
> experimenting and the latest experiment was to give him a steroid
> injection. It worked brilliantly: instantly stopping the attacks. But
> then after five days they began to return.
>
> So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
> his first puff last night while he was resting.
>
> The directions that come with the Flixotide are for humans, so I'm
> wondering if anyone can give any tips for cats. The directions say an
> adult human should take one puff per day in the resting state and with
> no treatment-interruptions.
>
> Does this mean that Puss should also have a puff every day, or should it
> be once every two days, or three days?
>
> Thanks.
> Eddy.

if the vet prescribed it, what did the vet tell you?

you might see what you can glean from this

http://www.martinandcarrvets.co.uk/PDF/CommonDiseases/AsthmaInCats.pdf

http://www.fritzthebrave.com/meds/inhaled.html

http://www.justanswer.com/sip/pets/

Eddy[_2_]
November 14th 11, 04:53 PM
Gandalf wrote:

> If you are getting the asthma medications directly from your vet, just
> call some pharmacies, and see if you can buy the same medication for
> less. Then, just ask for vet for a written prescription.

Gandalf, thanks for all of your words and thoughts, and particularly for
the lines above.

I'm living in the UK, but you've given me some ideas, because, yes, a
new Flixotide inhaler for Puss every three months will be expensive.
(The vet says they will cost me 70 US dollars each time.) I'll call a
pharmacy later on, however I don't think they'll release Flixotide
without a prescription. (Actually, under our wonderful National Health
Service here in the UK a Flixotide inhaler for a human being costs just
12 US dollars.)

Regards,
Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
November 14th 11, 05:29 PM
Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds wrote:

> f the vet prescribed it, what did the vet tell you?

Vet was unfortunately rather vague. Used to dealing with big animals, I
think.

> you might see what you can glean from this
> http://www.martinandcarrvets.co.uk/PDF/CommonDiseases/AsthmaInCats.pdf

This is interesting, suggesting 2 to 3 puffs per day!

> http://www.fritzthebrave.com/meds/inhaled.html

Thanks. Some valuable info here too.

> http://www.justanswer.com/sip/pets/

This was really helpful, thanks, Malcolm. It has led me to the Yahoo
group:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/felineasthma_inhaledmeds

There's a wealth of info in the Yahoo group.

Eddy.

Bill Graham
November 15th 11, 01:59 AM
Eddy wrote:
> Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds wrote:
>
>> f the vet prescribed it, what did the vet tell you?
>
> Vet was unfortunately rather vague. Used to dealing with big
> animals, I think.
>
>> you might see what you can glean from this
>> http://www.martinandcarrvets.co.uk/PDF/CommonDiseases/AsthmaInCats.pdf
>
> This is interesting, suggesting 2 to 3 puffs per day!
>
>> http://www.fritzthebrave.com/meds/inhaled.html
>
> Thanks. Some valuable info here too.
>
>> http://www.justanswer.com/sip/pets/
>
> This was really helpful, thanks, Malcolm. It has led me to the Yahoo
> group:
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/felineasthma_inhaledmeds
>
> There's a wealth of info in the Yahoo group.
>
> Eddy.

Vets, like many other doctors, have a great problem saying: "I don't know."
Apparently, they expect everyone to think that they are all knowing, and
they are afraid to shatter their patient's belief that this is true. Of
course it isn't true. there are few sciences as inexact as Medicine, and
there are many things that doctors don't know. Otherwise, everyone would
live forever....:^)

Gandalf[_4_]
November 17th 11, 04:27 AM
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:53:56 GMT, Eddy
> wrote:

>Gandalf wrote:
>
>> If you are getting the asthma medications directly from your vet, just
>> call some pharmacies, and see if you can buy the same medication for
>> less. Then, just ask for vet for a written prescription.
>
>Gandalf, thanks for all of your words and thoughts, and particularly for
>the lines above.
>
>I'm living in the UK, but you've given me some ideas, because, yes, a
>new Flixotide inhaler for Puss every three months will be expensive.
>(The vet says they will cost me 70 US dollars each time.) I'll call a
>pharmacy later on, however I don't think they'll release Flixotide
>without a prescription. (Actually, under our wonderful National Health
>Service here in the UK a Flixotide inhaler for a human being costs just
>12 US dollars.)
>
>Regards,
>Eddy.
>
>
I worked very closely with my vet when my cat was sick, and she knew I
didn't have much money. She offered to write prescriptions for Kenzie's
medications, so I could get them at a 'human pharmacy, and save some
money.

I would have asked her to write them, but I didn't have to.

In the USA, it's fairly common for people to bring prescriptions for
medications for their pets to 'human pharmacies'.

Of course, 'human medical insurance' doesn't cover the costs of
medication for pets, but it's still often much less expensive than
buying it directly from the vet.

It's legal in the USA. I hope it works the same way in the UK.

Good luck with your cat. And your vet.

Eddy[_2_]
November 17th 11, 07:06 PM
Gandalf wrote:
> I worked very closely with my vet when my cat was sick, and she knew I
> didn't have much money. She offered to write prescriptions for Kenzie's
> medications, so I could get them at a 'human pharmacy, and save some
> money.
>
> I would have asked her to write them, but I didn't have to.
>
> In the USA, it's fairly common for people to bring prescriptions for
> medications for their pets to 'human pharmacies'.
>
> Of course, 'human medical insurance' doesn't cover the costs of
> medication for pets, but it's still often much less expensive than
> buying it directly from the vet.
>
> It's legal in the USA. I hope it works the same way in the UK.
>
> Good luck with your cat. And your vet.

Thanks, Gandalf.

Will try to "work closely with" our vet and see what happens.

People are very wary of straying outside the letter of the regulations
here in the UK, in any sphere, and probably more so now with the debt
crises. Greece has an enormous black economy and flouting of regs and
it's woken people in this country up to the dangers of not doing
everything absolutely by the book.

Anyway, I will see what can be done to keep costs down.

Even if we have to fork out "top-dollar", our furry little fella is
worth every penny for all the delight he gives!

Best,
Eddy.

Bohgosity BumaskiL
January 23rd 12, 02:23 PM
On 2011-11-12 7:01 AM, Eddy wrote:
>
> Some of you were very kind with your views two months ago when Puss here
> developed serious asthma attacks. Since then the vet has been
> experimenting and the latest experiment was to give him a steroid
> injection. It worked brilliantly: instantly stopping the attacks. But
> then after five days they began to return.
>
> So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
> his first puff last night while he was resting.
>
> The directions that come with the Flixotide are for humans, so I'm
> wondering if anyone can give any tips for cats. The directions say an
> adult human should take one puff per day in the resting state and with
> no treatment-interruptions.
>
> Does this mean that Puss should also have a puff every day, or should it
> be once every two days, or three days?
>
> Thanks.
> Eddy.
>
Probably every day. Remember that your cat's lungs are much smaller.
You will probably waste most of the output from that inhaler. That
should rectify the dosage difference. Every day.

Bill Graham
January 25th 12, 03:02 AM
Bohgosity BumaskiL wrote:
> On 2011-11-12 7:01 AM, Eddy wrote:
>>
>> Some of you were very kind with your views two months ago when Puss
>> here developed serious asthma attacks. Since then the vet has been
>> experimenting and the latest experiment was to give him a steroid
>> injection. It worked brilliantly: instantly stopping the attacks.
>> But then after five days they began to return.
>>
>> So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
>> his first puff last night while he was resting.
>>
>> The directions that come with the Flixotide are for humans, so I'm
>> wondering if anyone can give any tips for cats. The directions say
>> an adult human should take one puff per day in the resting state and
>> with no treatment-interruptions.
>>
>> Does this mean that Puss should also have a puff every day, or
>> should it be once every two days, or three days?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Eddy.
>>
> Probably every day. Remember that your cat's lungs are much smaller.
> You will probably waste most of the output from that inhaler. That
> should rectify the dosage difference. Every day.

A, "puff" for kitty is proportionately smaller than a, "puff" for a human,
so I would think that your cat should also take a puff a day. Getting him to
do that is another story. You may have to sneak up on him while he is
sleeping and get some of the stuff in his face, or perhaps put him in a box
full of the stuff for a few seconds...... I don't know how to do it.....Ask
your vet......Cats are good at holding their breath if there is something in
the air they don't like. You may have quite a problem.....

Wayne Mitchell
January 25th 12, 03:36 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote:

> A, "puff" for kitty is proportionately smaller than a, "puff"
> for a human, so I would think that your cat should also take
> a puff a day.

Actually, a cat using a spacer gets very close to the same effective
dose that a human using a spacer would get. And both get just a little
more of the usable portion of the plume than does a human using the
inhaler directly, without a spacer. The human not using a spacer gets a
much higher total dosage, but most of it is deposited in the oropharynx
and is subsequently swallowed, and that portion has no effect because
fluticasone is almost completely unavailable by that route.

The dose of inhaled fluticasone which is required to control an
asthmatic's symptoms is not much influenced by body size. It is
determined by the severity of the condition, and by the response of the
species and of the individual to the medication. Cats have less
response to corticosteroids than humans, so they need higher doses for
therapeutic effect -- and by the same token, they can take higher doses
without experiencing serious adverse effects.


> Getting him to do that is another story. You may have to sneak
> up on him while he is sleeping and get some of the stuff in his
> face, or perhaps put him in a box full of the stuff for a few
> seconds...... I don't know how to do it.....Ask your vet.

I would again urge anyone contemplating this therapy to join us on the
Yahoo group:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/felineasthma_inhaledmeds/
We *do* know how it can be done, and have hundreds of members who have
done it. (Neither sneaking up on the cat nor brute force are likely to
be successful.)

Don't expect your vet to know how. We find that a majority of vets
still do not even believe it's possible, and the minority that know it
can be done, including those who prescribe it, don't have much knowledge
of methods for getting good compliance from a cat.
--

Wayne M.

Bill Graham
January 25th 12, 05:47 AM
Wayne Mitchell wrote:
> Don't expect your vet to know how. We find that a majority of vets
> still do not even believe it's possible, and the minority that know it
> can be done, including those who prescribe it, don't have much
> knowledge of methods for getting good compliance from a cat.

I don't know anyone that knows how to get, "good compliance" from a
cat...:^)

mickrio
February 18th 12, 11:57 AM
So now we have an Aerokat device and a Flixotide inhaler and Puss had
his first puff last night while he was resting.
_______
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