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View Full Version : Pet euthanasia is NOT totally painless???


Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
January 29th 13, 06:08 AM
Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
post...

"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on the
> web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some other
> articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two different
> vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that the
> heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is it
> possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at all? I
> do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the single
> injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to the
> single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very ill.
> And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection was
> being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However,
> while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out after
> they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried out,
> hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was being
> administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt him
> that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only said
> "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot. (So
> to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as getting
> a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took full
> effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but still
> breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be
> painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also
> did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used a
> catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the left
> rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process HURTS
> the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to help
> them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet death.
> Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually painless
> all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just two
> cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> errors involved?
>
> Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of the
> cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.

Bill Graham
January 29th 13, 07:26 AM
Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> post...
>
> "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article
>> on the web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as
>> some other articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a
>> shot. Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets,
>> it
>> seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>>
>> Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
>> different vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to
>> ensure that the heart stopped after administering the euthanasia
>> shot. The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can
>> only
>> guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the
>> vet combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot,
>> or is it possible they did a euthanasia without administering a
>> sedative at all? I do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior
>> to getting the single injection--her eyes were fully open and she
>> still responded prior to the single injection used for euthanasia,
>> even though she was very, very ill. And, the way I saw that her paw
>> clearly shook as the single injection was being administered, that
>> appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However, while some articles
>> on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out after they die, she
>> did not cry out.) She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>>
>> The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
>> out, hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he
>> was being administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia
>> shot. It hurt him that much! No catheter was used for the sedative
>> shot--instead, this sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh.
>> And yet, the vet only said "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to
>> administering the sedative shot. (So to me, that is more consistent
>> with euthanasia being as painful as getting a shot, but then that's
>> still not painless.) Once the sedative took full effect--and the vet
>> even lifted up and put back down the limp but still breathing cat to
>> show that the sedative took full effect--the actual euthanasia shot
>> given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be painless,
>> since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also did
>> not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used
>> a catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the
>> left rear leg on the underside of him. He was euthanized due widespread
>> lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>>
>> Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
>> HURTS the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being
>> used to help them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an
>> eventual pet death. Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia
>> is really actually painless all the way from the start to the end of
>> the process. Are these just two cases of the different veterinarians
>> doing the euthanasia process with errors involved?
>>
>> Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts
>> of the cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to
>> sleep.

Even if true, it is a lot better than suffering for days as would happen
were no pet ever euthanized. I had one cat who was poisoned by the weed
killer, "Round-up". He was mildly sick the first day, Quite sick the second
day, (spent the night in the vets home) and deathly sick the last day, when
he died at 11:00 PM. Not knowing whether he might pull through, we did
nothing. I wish I could go back and kill him the first day. But then I wish
I could go back the day before that and keep him from drinking the water
contaminated with Round-up. In no case would he have suffered more by being
euthanized. We can never know how they suffer unless and until we are
eeuthanized ourselves, and then we can't write a treatise on the subject for
the medical journals. That's just the nature of life and death.

IBen Getiner[_3_]
February 3rd 13, 11:28 AM
On Jan 29, 12:08*am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> post...
>
> "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in m...
>
>
>
> > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on the
> > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some other
> > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two different
> > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that the
> > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is it
> > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at all? I
> > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the single
> > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to the
> > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very ill.
> > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection was
> > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However,
> > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out after
> > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried out,
> > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was being
> > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt him
> > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only said
> > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot. (So
> > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as getting
> > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took full
> > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but still
> > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be
> > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also
> > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used a
> > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the left
> > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process HURTS
> > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to help
> > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet death.
> > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually painless
> > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just two
> > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> > errors involved?
>
> > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of the
> > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.

So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
getting run over by a car.

Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....


.................................................. ............IBen

Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
February 3rd 13, 09:23 PM
"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> post...
>
> "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
> m...
>
>
>
> > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
> > the
> > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some other
> > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
> > different
> > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
> > the
> > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is it
> > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at all?
> > I
> > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the single
> > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to the
> > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
> > ill.
> > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
> > was
> > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However,
> > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
> > after
> > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
> > out,
> > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was being
> > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt him
> > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
> > said
> > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot.
> > (So
> > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
> > getting
> > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took full
> > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but still
> > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be
> > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also
> > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used
> > a
> > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the left
> > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
> > HURTS
> > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to help
> > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
> > death.
> > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
> > painless
> > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just two
> > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> > errors involved?
>
> > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
> > the
> > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.

So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
getting run over by a car.

Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....

*** Go away troll.

IBen Getiner[_3_]
February 4th 13, 05:57 AM
On Feb 3, 3:23*pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." >
wrote:
> "IBenGetiner" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> > post...
>
> > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
> > m...
>
> > > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
> > > the
> > > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some other
> > > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> > > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> > > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> > > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
> > > different
> > > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
> > > the
> > > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> > > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> > > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> > > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is it
> > > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at all?
> > > I
> > > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the single
> > > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to the
> > > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
> > > ill.
> > > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
> > > was
> > > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However,
> > > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
> > > after
> > > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> > > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> > > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
> > > out,
> > > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was being
> > > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt him
> > > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> > > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
> > > said
> > > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot..
> > > (So
> > > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
> > > getting
> > > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took full
> > > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but still
> > > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> > > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be
> > > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also
> > > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used
> > > a
> > > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the left
> > > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> > > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> > > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
> > > HURTS
> > > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to help
> > > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
> > > death.
> > > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
> > > painless
> > > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just two
> > > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> > > errors involved?
>
> > > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
> > > the
> > > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.
>
> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> getting run over by a car.
>
> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
> *** Go away troll.

Well thank you for the warm reception! That makes me feel soooo good
that I think I'll stay a while. Yeah. That's what I'm a-gonna do.

Look, you ****ing JERK... I have opinions about animals and animal
rights just like everybody here. And NOBODY is going to run me away!
Not tomorrow... Not today... And not none since I first came to these
groups back in '99. Understand?

Personally, I don't care if you do or not. You might not like it. But
one thing's for certain... you're going to lay there until I think
I've had my say!

Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
February 4th 13, 06:53 AM
"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 3:23 pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." >
wrote:
> "IBenGetiner" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> > post...
>
> > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
> > m...
>
> > > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
> > > the
> > > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some
> > > other
> > > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> > > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> > > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> > > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
> > > different
> > > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
> > > the
> > > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> > > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> > > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> > > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is
> > > it
> > > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at
> > > all?
> > > I
> > > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the
> > > single
> > > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to
> > > the
> > > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
> > > ill.
> > > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
> > > was
> > > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain.
> > > (However,
> > > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
> > > after
> > > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> > > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> > > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
> > > out,
> > > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was
> > > being
> > > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt
> > > him
> > > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> > > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
> > > said
> > > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot.
> > > (So
> > > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
> > > getting
> > > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took
> > > full
> > > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but
> > > still
> > > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> > > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to
> > > be
> > > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he
> > > also
> > > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never
> > > used
> > > a
> > > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the
> > > left
> > > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> > > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> > > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
> > > HURTS
> > > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to
> > > help
> > > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
> > > death.
> > > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
> > > painless
> > > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just
> > > two
> > > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> > > errors involved?
>
> > > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
> > > the
> > > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.
>
> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> getting run over by a car.
>
> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
> *** Go away troll.

Well thank you for the warm reception! That makes me feel soooo good
that I think I'll stay a while. Yeah. That's what I'm a-gonna do.

*** I don't owe you a warm reception when you troll my post.

Look, you ****ing JERK... I have opinions about animals and animal
rights just like everybody here. And NOBODY is going to run me away!
Not tomorrow... Not today... And not none since I first came to these
groups back in '99. Understand?

*** Let's review what you wrote in response. The second part of that makes
you a troll:

> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> getting run over by a car.
>
> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....

Personally, I don't care if you do or not. You might not like it. But
one thing's for certain... you're going to lay there until I think
I've had my say!

*** I'll just block you, then I won't see any more of your responses. That's
the usual response to a troll, and I've already given you one too many
responses.

IBen Getiner[_3_]
February 4th 13, 12:56 PM
On Feb 4, 12:53*am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> "IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 3:23 pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "IBenGetiner" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
> > > wrote:
> > > Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> > > post...
>
> > > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
> > > m...
>
> > > > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
> > > > the
> > > > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some
> > > > other
> > > > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> > > > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> > > > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> > > > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
> > > > different
> > > > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
> > > > the
> > > > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> > > > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> > > > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> > > > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is
> > > > it
> > > > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at
> > > > all?
> > > > I
> > > > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the
> > > > single
> > > > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to
> > > > the
> > > > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
> > > > ill.
> > > > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
> > > > was
> > > > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain.
> > > > (However,
> > > > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
> > > > after
> > > > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> > > > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> > > > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
> > > > out,
> > > > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was
> > > > being
> > > > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt
> > > > him
> > > > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> > > > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
> > > > said
> > > > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot.
> > > > (So
> > > > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
> > > > getting
> > > > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took
> > > > full
> > > > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but
> > > > still
> > > > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> > > > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to
> > > > be
> > > > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he
> > > > also
> > > > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never
> > > > used
> > > > a
> > > > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the
> > > > left
> > > > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> > > > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> > > > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
> > > > HURTS
> > > > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to
> > > > help
> > > > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
> > > > death.
> > > > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
> > > > painless
> > > > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just
> > > > two
> > > > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> > > > errors involved?
>
> > > > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
> > > > the
> > > > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.
>
> > So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> > getting run over by a car.
>
> > Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> > Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> > cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
> > *** Go away troll.
>
> Well thank you for the warm reception! That makes me feel soooo good
> that I think I'll stay a while. Yeah. That's what I'm a-gonna do.
>
> *** I don't owe you a warm reception when you troll my post.
>
> *Look, you ****ing JERK... I have opinions about animals and animal
> rights just like everybody here. And NOBODY is going to run me away!
> Not tomorrow... Not today... And not none since I first came to these
> groups back in '99. Understand?
>
> *** Let's review what you wrote in response. The second part of that makes
> you a troll:
>
> > So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> > getting run over by a car.
>
> > Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> > Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> > cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>


So WHAT...??? I don't get ya'...... Proves you're twisting things...
Probably seeing things, too.


> Personally, I don't care if you do or not. You might not like it. But
> one thing's for certain... you're going to lay there until I think
> I've had my say!
>
> *** I'll just block you, then I won't see any more of your responses. That's
> the usual response to a troll, and I've already given you one too many
> responses.

Yezz.... You just do that. Meanwhile, I'll be RIGHT here. With all
your friends! : )

Mack A. Damia
February 4th 13, 02:16 PM
On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 21:53:47 -0800, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:

>"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
...
>On Feb 3, 3:23 pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." >
>wrote:
>> "IBenGetiner" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> > Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
>> > post...
>>
>> > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
>> > m...
>>
>> > > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
>> > > the
>> > > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some
>> > > other
>> > > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>>
>> > > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
>> > > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>>
>> > > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
>> > > different
>> > > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
>> > > the
>> > > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>>
>> > > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
>> > > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
>> > > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is
>> > > it
>> > > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at
>> > > all?
>> > > I
>> > > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the
>> > > single
>> > > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to
>> > > the
>> > > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
>> > > ill.
>> > > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
>> > > was
>> > > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain.
>> > > (However,
>> > > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
>> > > after
>> > > they die, she did not cry out.)
>>
>> > > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>>
>> > > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
>> > > out,
>> > > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was
>> > > being
>> > > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt
>> > > him
>> > > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
>> > > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
>> > > said
>> > > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot.
>> > > (So
>> > > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
>> > > getting
>> > > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took
>> > > full
>> > > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but
>> > > still
>> > > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
>> > > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to
>> > > be
>> > > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he
>> > > also
>> > > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never
>> > > used
>> > > a
>> > > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the
>> > > left
>> > > rear leg on the underside of him.
>>
>> > > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>>
>> > > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
>> > > HURTS
>> > > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to
>> > > help
>> > > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
>> > > death.
>> > > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
>> > > painless
>> > > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just
>> > > two
>> > > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
>> > > errors involved?
>>
>> > > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
>> > > the
>> > > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.
>>
>> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
>> getting run over by a car.
>>
>> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
>> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
>> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>>
>> *** Go away troll.
>
>Well thank you for the warm reception! That makes me feel soooo good
>that I think I'll stay a while. Yeah. That's what I'm a-gonna do.
>
>*** I don't owe you a warm reception when you troll my post.
>
> Look, you ****ing JERK... I have opinions about animals and animal
>rights just like everybody here. And NOBODY is going to run me away!
>Not tomorrow... Not today... And not none since I first came to these
>groups back in '99. Understand?
>
>*** Let's review what you wrote in response. The second part of that makes
>you a troll:
>
>> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
>> getting run over by a car.
>>
>> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
>> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
>> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
>Personally, I don't care if you do or not. You might not like it. But
>one thing's for certain... you're going to lay there until I think
>I've had my say!
>
>*** I'll just block you, then I won't see any more of your responses. That's
>the usual response to a troll, and I've already given you one too many
>responses.


\|||/
(o o)
,--oo0--------------.
| Please |
| Don't Feed |
| The TROLLs |
'--------------oo0---'
|__| |__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo


--

IBen Getiner[_3_]
February 5th 13, 07:31 AM
On Feb 4, 8:16*am, Mack A. Damia > wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 21:53:47 -0800, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
> ...
> >On Feb 3, 3:23 pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." >
> >wrote:
> >> "IBenGetiner" > wrote in message
>
> ....
> >> On Jan 29, 12:08 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
> >> > post...
>
> >> > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in
> >> > m...
>
> >> > > Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on
> >> > > the
> >> > > web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some
> >> > > other
> >> > > articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>
> >> > > Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
> >> > > seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>
> >> > > Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two
> >> > > different
> >> > > vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that
> >> > > the
> >> > > heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>
> >> > > The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
> >> > > guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
> >> > > combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is
> >> > > it
> >> > > possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at
> >> > > all?
> >> > > I
> >> > > do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the
> >> > > single
> >> > > injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to
> >> > > the
> >> > > single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very
> >> > > ill.
> >> > > And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection
> >> > > was
> >> > > being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain.
> >> > > (However,
> >> > > while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out
> >> > > after
> >> > > they die, she did not cry out.)
>
> >> > > She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>
> >> > > The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried
> >> > > out,
> >> > > hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was
> >> > > being
> >> > > administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt
> >> > > him
> >> > > that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
> >> > > sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only
> >> > > said
> >> > > "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot.
> >> > > (So
> >> > > to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as
> >> > > getting
> >> > > a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took
> >> > > full
> >> > > effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but
> >> > > still
> >> > > breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
> >> > > euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to
> >> > > be
> >> > > painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he
> >> > > also
> >> > > did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never
> >> > > used
> >> > > a
> >> > > catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the
> >> > > left
> >> > > rear leg on the underside of him.
>
> >> > > He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>
> >> > > Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process
> >> > > HURTS
> >> > > the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to
> >> > > help
> >> > > them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet
> >> > > death.
> >> > > Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually
> >> > > painless
> >> > > all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just
> >> > > two
> >> > > cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
> >> > > errors involved?
>
> >> > > Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of
> >> > > the
> >> > > cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.
>
> >> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> >> getting run over by a car.
>
> >> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> >> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> >> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
> >> *** Go away troll.
>
> >Well thank you for the warm reception! That makes me feel soooo good
> >that I think I'll stay a while. Yeah. That's what I'm a-gonna do.
>
> >*** I don't owe you a warm reception when you troll my post.
>
> > Look, you ****ing JERK... I have opinions about animals and animal
> >rights just like everybody here. And NOBODY is going to run me away!
> >Not tomorrow... Not today... And not none since I first came to these
> >groups back in '99. Understand?
>
> >*** Let's review what you wrote in response. The second part of that makes
> >you a troll:
>
> >> So what if it hurts a little.... Better than slowly starving or
> >> getting run over by a car.
>
> >> Hey.... Maybe you can put a 'moratorium' on cat executions until the
> >> Supreme Court has had a chance to determine if the usual method is
> >> cruel and unusual! Yeah.... You'd like that, I sure.....
>
> >Personally, I don't care if you do or not. You might not like it. But
> >one thing's for certain... you're going to lay there until I think
> >I've had my say!
>
> >*** I'll just block you, then I won't see any more of your responses. That's
> >the usual response to a troll, and I've already given you one too many
> >responses.
>
> * * * *\|||/
> * * * * * * * (o o)
> * *,--oo0--------------.
> * *| * * * Please * * * * * *|
> * *| * *Don't Feed * * * *|
> * *| * The *TROLLs * * * |
> * *'--------------oo0---'
> * * * * * *|__| |__|
> * * * * * * *|| * ||
> * * * * *ooO *Ooo
>
> --

\|||/
(o o)
,--oo0--------------.
| Please |
| Don't Feed |
| The RATZ |
'--------------oo0---'
|__| |__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo

golden
February 17th 13, 05:48 AM
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:08:26 -0800, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:

>Also crossposting to rec.pets.cats.health+behav as this is a relevant
>post...
>
>"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote in message
...
>> Let me start out by saying this: I have read article after article on the
>> web claiming pet euthanasia is painless to the animal. Or, as some other
>> articles have stated, at most, it's as bad as getting a shot.
>>
>> Well, I can say that after having to euthanize two different pets, it
>> seems to me that it is NOT painless. So now let me explain...
>>
>> Two different cat euthanasias: one in 2000, and one in 2013. Two different
>> vet clinics. Both times the vet did use the stethescope to ensure that the
>> heart stopped after administering the euthanasia shot.
>>
>> The first pet--a female domestic longhair black cat--well, I can only
>> guess insufficient sedative prior to being given that shot, or the vet
>> combined the sedative and the euthanasia part as all one shot, or is it
>> possible they did a euthanasia without administering a sedative at all? I
>> do know for a fact that when I held the cat prior to getting the single
>> injection--her eyes were fully open and she still responded prior to the
>> single injection used for euthanasia, even though she was very, very ill.
>> And, the way I saw that her paw clearly shook as the single injection was
>> being administered, that appeared as if she was feeling pain. (However,
>> while some articles on pet euthanasia do say the animal may cry out after
>> they die, she did not cry out.)
>>
>> She was euthanized due to lymphosarcoma in 2000.
>>
>> The second pet--a male domestic shorthair black and white cat--cried out,
>> hissed, and even turned his head to try to bite the vet as he was being
>> administered the sedative shot PRIOR to the euthanasia shot. It hurt him
>> that much! No catheter was used for the sedative shot--instead, this
>> sedative shot was done in the left rear thigh. And yet, the vet only said
>> "he might feel a tiny sting" prior to administering the sedative shot. (So
>> to me, that is more consistent with euthanasia being as painful as getting
>> a shot, but then that's still not painless.) Once the sedative took full
>> effect--and the vet even lifted up and put back down the limp but still
>> breathing cat to show that the sedative took full effect--the actual
>> euthanasia shot given by the vet about 15 minutes later did appear to be
>> painless, since there was no discernable motion from the cat and he also
>> did not cry out. Unlike the first euthanasia, this euthanasia never used a
>> catheter and the actual euthanasia shot was given in a vein in the left
>> rear leg on the underside of him.
>>
>> He was euthanized due widespread lymphatic cancer this year, 2013.
>>
>> Still, it appears to me that at least part of the euthanasia process HURTS
>> the cat in the short term, even if pet euthanasia is being used to help
>> them out of a longer more prolonged painful end to an eventual pet death.
>> Enough for me to have to ask if pet euthanasia is really actually painless
>> all the way from the start to the end of the process. Are these just two
>> cases of the different veterinarians doing the euthanasia process with
>> errors involved?
>>
>> Further discussion is welcome--but it also doesn't change the facts of the
>> cat euthanasias I have seen when I had to put a pet down to sleep.


You are WAY overthinking this. Putting a cat to sleep is, OBVIOUSLY
not 100% painless, due to having to give one or two injections.

When done PROPERLY, and believe me, vets get good at doing this very
quickly, the pain is very, very small.

Now, go find something to do with your free time. You have WAY too
much!