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June 25th 13, 12:24 AM
We have a singe family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old.
We have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted her from a friend.

She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has been well cared for.
She has lost some weight recently.
The vet took x-rays and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had them also reviewed by a radiologist.

Before we got the test results back, the vet had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her weight up, and we have been doing that with success.

When the results came back, the vet and radiologist both agreed that there is lung cancer (spots on the x-rays), and that the blood work indicates there is not pneumonia.

The vet says our cat could die at any time, and is, or may be, in some discomfort.
We are not sure whether the cat is in pain, although she has probably been more sedentary than usual recently.

Our vet is a long-time personal friend, whom we trust very much, and we have no reason to doubt the diagnosis.
Our family has a strong emotional attachment to this cat.

We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when.

As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for us.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.

buglady[_2_]
June 25th 13, 02:18 AM
On 6/24/2013 7:24 PM, wrote:
> We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when.
>
> As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for us.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.

..............I just went through this same agony with a cat
diagnosed/confirmed as having nasal lymphoma. A cat who won't smell
won't eat. Appetite stimulant worked and she put on weight. She was on
steroids but, in reality, those only have an effect for a short amount
of time. Cats resist mouth breathing. As my vet put it, they'd rather
breathe through a straw than open the mouth to breathe. She already was
doing that occasionally when I stressed her out with the daily pill. A
tumor was also forming under her eye by this time and she would
occasionally leak bloody serum out of her eyes. We had struggled for a
long time with a secondary bacterial infection, which we finally beat
with a new med. But the poor thing had had stuff crammed or squirted
down her throat for about 2 months and was heartily sick of it. Not to
mention subQs occasionally and once being in hospital for IV meds/fluids.

And a rhinoscopy and biopsy which ran me a thou, but I decided that I
needed the extra diagnostics to verify that it was cancer. That I
wouldn't be happy if I didn't know. The nose is a restricted area to
work in and my vet, like most vets, didn't have the tools to get a
biopsy. The pathology report took so long to come back combined with
primary treating vet at speciality clinic being out of town that 2 weeks
went by before he bothered to call back, which was days after he
returned to town. I had been willing to try an oral chemo drug, but by
the time he called it was too late - she was over the bridge. Just as
well I guess as Leukeran is related to mustard gas and had to be handled
with gloves. I could not picture how I was going to get that down her
throat in one go.

When the appetite stimulant wore off the steroids didn't do a thing WRT
eating. And she would look at me suspiciously and run whenever I got
near her. She'd also park herself in one spot and not move when she
wasn't drugged up. I just got to feeling that without the drugs she'd
be just as happy to leave. And when cats make up their minds, they go.

Despite her cancer, otherwise you wouldn't know she was sick. So I
struggled, as you are, with the concept of putting a cat to sleep who
didn't look all that horrible. Weight was good, coat was gorgeous, what
a horrible horrible irony.

But eventually the tumor (which already made her lift her head to
swallow food) would block off enough of the nasal passage in the back to
make breathing through her nose almost impossible. And by the time she
would be mouth breathing all the time she would be in terrible distress.

I felt at the time that it was too early. But this was one I didn't
want to be late on and didn't want to risk not having a vet available on
the weekend or holiday. So I sent her on.

I'd take your kitty into the vet and have him check breathing, number of
respirations per minute, whether breathing is shallow or not, and have
another talk. My father died of lung cancer and told me it hurt to
breathe. Cats hide pain pretty well. But if she's not shallow
breathing at this point, she's probably doing pretty well. ASk vet what
signs you could monitor that would tell you she's in distress.

That's about all you can do.
Good luck to you and your kitty.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Bill Graham
June 25th 13, 11:05 PM
wrote:
> We have a singe family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old.
> We have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted
> her from a friend.
>
> She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has been well cared for.
> She has lost some weight recently.
> The vet took x-rays and blood work, examined the x-rays and test
> results, and had them also reviewed by a radiologist.
>
> Before we got the test results back, the vet had suggested we try
> feeding baby food to help get her weight up, and we have been doing
> that with success.
>
> When the results came back, the vet and radiologist both agreed that
> there is lung cancer (spots on the x-rays), and that the blood work
> indicates there is not pneumonia.
>
> The vet says our cat could die at any time, and is, or may be, in
> some discomfort.
> We are not sure whether the cat is in pain, although she has probably
> been more sedentary than usual recently.
>
> Our vet is a long-time personal friend, whom we trust very much, and
> we have no reason to doubt the diagnosis.
> Our family has a strong emotional attachment to this cat.
>
> We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put
> to sleep, and if so, when.
>
> As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests
> ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000
> would be difficult or unrealistic for us.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> Thanks.

I have had four cats die on me in the last two years. Two were poisoned. One
by Roundup weed killer, and the other by anti-freeze (ethylene Glycoil) The
other two died natral deaths from old age. My advice is to put the cat down
as soon as it shows signs of pain or continuopus discomfort, like not eating
or crying a lot. There is no sense in prolonging their suffering. We all die
eventually, and the niuce thing about being a cat is that you don't know
about death, and so you don;t fear it. As soon as you know that the cat will
not survive whatever illness he has, there is no reason to not put him down
and let him die in peace. You will feel better about it in the long run,
knowing that you did the best you could for him.

dgk
June 27th 13, 01:39 PM
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:18:25 -0400, buglady >
wrote:

>On 6/24/2013 7:24 PM, wrote:
>> We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when.
>>
>> As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for us.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>.............I just went through this same agony with a cat
>diagnosed/confirmed as having nasal lymphoma. A cat who won't smell
>won't eat. Appetite stimulant worked and she put on weight. She was on
>steroids but, in reality, those only have an effect for a short amount
>of time. Cats resist mouth breathing. As my vet put it, they'd rather
>breathe through a straw than open the mouth to breathe. She already was
>doing that occasionally when I stressed her out with the daily pill. A
>tumor was also forming under her eye by this time and she would
>occasionally leak bloody serum out of her eyes. We had struggled for a
>long time with a secondary bacterial infection, which we finally beat
>with a new med. But the poor thing had had stuff crammed or squirted
>down her throat for about 2 months and was heartily sick of it. Not to
>mention subQs occasionally and once being in hospital for IV meds/fluids.
>
>And a rhinoscopy and biopsy which ran me a thou, but I decided that I
>needed the extra diagnostics to verify that it was cancer. That I
>wouldn't be happy if I didn't know. The nose is a restricted area to
>work in and my vet, like most vets, didn't have the tools to get a
>biopsy. The pathology report took so long to come back combined with
>primary treating vet at speciality clinic being out of town that 2 weeks
>went by before he bothered to call back, which was days after he
>returned to town. I had been willing to try an oral chemo drug, but by
>the time he called it was too late - she was over the bridge. Just as
>well I guess as Leukeran is related to mustard gas and had to be handled
>with gloves. I could not picture how I was going to get that down her
>throat in one go.
>
>When the appetite stimulant wore off the steroids didn't do a thing WRT
>eating. And she would look at me suspiciously and run whenever I got
>near her. She'd also park herself in one spot and not move when she
>wasn't drugged up. I just got to feeling that without the drugs she'd
>be just as happy to leave. And when cats make up their minds, they go.
>
>Despite her cancer, otherwise you wouldn't know she was sick. So I
>struggled, as you are, with the concept of putting a cat to sleep who
>didn't look all that horrible. Weight was good, coat was gorgeous, what
>a horrible horrible irony.
>
>But eventually the tumor (which already made her lift her head to
>swallow food) would block off enough of the nasal passage in the back to
>make breathing through her nose almost impossible. And by the time she
>would be mouth breathing all the time she would be in terrible distress.
>
>I felt at the time that it was too early. But this was one I didn't
>want to be late on and didn't want to risk not having a vet available on
>the weekend or holiday. So I sent her on.
>
>I'd take your kitty into the vet and have him check breathing, number of
>respirations per minute, whether breathing is shallow or not, and have
>another talk. My father died of lung cancer and told me it hurt to
>breathe. Cats hide pain pretty well. But if she's not shallow
>breathing at this point, she's probably doing pretty well. ASk vet what
>signs you could monitor that would tell you she's in distress.
>
>That's about all you can do.
>Good luck to you and your kitty.
>
>buglady
>take out the dog before replying

It's a decision that you just can't win. Either you're going to feel
awful that you euthanized your cat too soon, or you're going to feel
awful that you made the cat suffer because you couldn't bear to let
go. Just be prepared to feel awful and do the best you can.

I also had a cat, my favorite, come down with a leukemia at around age
15. He had collapsed and almost died. My vet said that if I wanted to
save him I would have to take him to the specialty vet and I did so.
They said that he could live for another two years with a decent
quality of life, so I had them do what they could. After four very
expensive days (several thousand $) I came to get him and he was
petrified and just miserable looking. He also had the worst case of
diarrhea I can imagine.

I had to alternate giving him prednisone and leukeran, with the gloves
and all. I hated having to get those pills down his throat and he
hated it as well. He only lived for maybe five more months, and he
never climbed the cat tree again so I have to assume that he was
nauseous the whole time.

I would not do it again that way. Maybe I will make myself miserable
next time by doing it too soon, but I will not make a trusting
companion suffer like that.

Do what you think is best and then you know that at least you did your
best. That's a minor comfort, but the best I can offer. You have our
purrs.

Bill Graham
June 27th 13, 05:35 PM
dgk wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:18:25 -0400, buglady >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/24/2013 7:24 PM, wrote:
>>> We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her
>>> put to sleep, and if so, when.
>>>
>>> As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests
>>> ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over
>>> $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for us.
>>>
>>> Any advice would be appreciated.
>>
>> .............I just went through this same agony with a cat
>> diagnosed/confirmed as having nasal lymphoma. A cat who won't smell
>> won't eat. Appetite stimulant worked and she put on weight. She
>> was on steroids but, in reality, those only have an effect for a
>> short amount of time. Cats resist mouth breathing. As my vet put
>> it, they'd rather breathe through a straw than open the mouth to
>> breathe. She already was doing that occasionally when I stressed
>> her out with the daily pill. A tumor was also forming under her eye
>> by this time and she would occasionally leak bloody serum out of her
>> eyes. We had struggled for a long time with a secondary bacterial
>> infection, which we finally beat with a new med. But the poor thing
>> had had stuff crammed or squirted down her throat for about 2 months
>> and was heartily sick of it. Not to mention subQs occasionally and
>> once being in hospital for IV meds/fluids.
>>
>> And a rhinoscopy and biopsy which ran me a thou, but I decided that I
>> needed the extra diagnostics to verify that it was cancer. That I
>> wouldn't be happy if I didn't know. The nose is a restricted area to
>> work in and my vet, like most vets, didn't have the tools to get a
>> biopsy. The pathology report took so long to come back combined with
>> primary treating vet at speciality clinic being out of town that 2
>> weeks went by before he bothered to call back, which was days after
>> he returned to town. I had been willing to try an oral chemo drug,
>> but by the time he called it was too late - she was over the bridge.
>> Just as well I guess as Leukeran is related to mustard gas and had
>> to be handled with gloves. I could not picture how I was going to
>> get that down her throat in one go.
>>
>> When the appetite stimulant wore off the steroids didn't do a thing
>> WRT eating. And she would look at me suspiciously and run whenever
>> I got near her. She'd also park herself in one spot and not move
>> when she wasn't drugged up. I just got to feeling that without the
>> drugs she'd be just as happy to leave. And when cats make up their
>> minds, they go.
>>
>> Despite her cancer, otherwise you wouldn't know she was sick. So I
>> struggled, as you are, with the concept of putting a cat to sleep who
>> didn't look all that horrible. Weight was good, coat was gorgeous,
>> what a horrible horrible irony.
>>
>> But eventually the tumor (which already made her lift her head to
>> swallow food) would block off enough of the nasal passage in the
>> back to make breathing through her nose almost impossible. And by
>> the time she would be mouth breathing all the time she would be in
>> terrible distress.
>>
>> I felt at the time that it was too early. But this was one I didn't
>> want to be late on and didn't want to risk not having a vet
>> available on the weekend or holiday. So I sent her on.
>>
>> I'd take your kitty into the vet and have him check breathing,
>> number of respirations per minute, whether breathing is shallow or
>> not, and have another talk. My father died of lung cancer and told
>> me it hurt to breathe. Cats hide pain pretty well. But if she's
>> not shallow breathing at this point, she's probably doing pretty
>> well. ASk vet what signs you could monitor that would tell you
>> she's in distress.
>>
>> That's about all you can do.
>> Good luck to you and your kitty.
>>
>> buglady
>> take out the dog before replying
>
> It's a decision that you just can't win. Either you're going to feel
> awful that you euthanized your cat too soon, or you're going to feel
> awful that you made the cat suffer because you couldn't bear to let
> go. Just be prepared to feel awful and do the best you can.
>
> I also had a cat, my favorite, come down with a leukemia at around age
> 15. He had collapsed and almost died. My vet said that if I wanted to
> save him I would have to take him to the specialty vet and I did so.
> They said that he could live for another two years with a decent
> quality of life, so I had them do what they could. After four very
> expensive days (several thousand $) I came to get him and he was
> petrified and just miserable looking. He also had the worst case of
> diarrhea I can imagine.
>
> I had to alternate giving him prednisone and leukeran, with the gloves
> and all. I hated having to get those pills down his throat and he
> hated it as well. He only lived for maybe five more months, and he
> never climbed the cat tree again so I have to assume that he was
> nauseous the whole time.
>
> I would not do it again that way. Maybe I will make myself miserable
> next time by doing it too soon, but I will not make a trusting
> companion suffer like that.
>
> Do what you think is best and then you know that at least you did your
> best. That's a minor comfort, but the best I can offer. You have our
> purrs.

Yes.
We human beings understand what the doctors are doing, what the choices are,
and why we are suffering in the hopes of the reward of an extension of our
lives. Cats can't understand any of this. They only know that they are being
tortured, and they donl;t know why or what they did wrong that caused you to
do this to them. Why inflict this on them? Far better to put them down and
let them die in peace. Give them a shot of morphine, so they think
everything's OK, and let them go to sleep forever....

buglady[_2_]
June 27th 13, 06:06 PM
On 6/27/2013 12:35 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
Give them a shot of
> morphine, so they think everything's OK, and let them go to sleep
> forever....
................Morphine makes cats just plain crazy - hyperexcitable.
Totally contrary to what it does in humans.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

buglady[_2_]
June 27th 13, 06:18 PM
On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:

> It's a decision that you just can't win. Either you're going to feel
> awful that you euthanized your cat too soon, or you're going to feel
> awful that you made the cat suffer because you couldn't bear to let
> go. Just be prepared to feel awful and do the best you can.

..........Amen to that! I don't regret the decision to toss a barrel of
money I couldn't really afford at the diagnosis. I just had to know.
It could have been something fixable and it would have haunted me that I
didn't find out for sure.

> They said that he could live for another two years with a decent
> quality of life, so I had them do what they could.
............Oh yeah, the primary speciality vet had done a smear sample
at the time of the rhinoscopy and told me it was lymphoma but they'd
wait for the path report to make sure. Then he gave me all the options.
And said lymphoma was weird. One chemo treatment and it could
disappear. Gosh, despite the horrific price tag, I felt I'd really have
to consider it. But I talked to an assoc vet when path report came in
and she said, yeah, it can, but it will come right back unless you keep
up with the chemo. Nothing like stretching the truth. He said 2 years
also but I read a journal article that realistically put it at around 8
months. Two years is the right hand side of the bell curve.


> I would not do it again that way. Maybe I will make myself miserable
> next time by doing it too soon, but I will not make a trusting
> companion suffer like that.

.............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react. It
could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not quite
telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of life. One
has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.

My cat was over 15 also.


buglady
take out the dog before replying

Bill Graham
June 27th 13, 09:13 PM
buglady wrote:
> On 6/27/2013 12:35 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
> Give them a shot of
>> morphine, so they think everything's OK, and let them go to sleep
>> forever....
> ...............Morphine makes cats just plain crazy - hyperexcitable.
> Totally contrary to what it does in humans.
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying

That may very well be true. But they can give them something that
tranquelizes them, and I always ask for that when I have to have one put to
sleep.

dgk
June 28th 13, 04:47 PM
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady >
wrote:

>On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>

>
>............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react. It
>could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not quite
>telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of life. One
>has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.
>
>My cat was over 15 also.
>
>
I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to tolerate
chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out in my case.

That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and explain
what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.

Bill Graham
June 29th 13, 10:03 PM
dgk wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react.
>> It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not
>> quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of
>> life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for,
>> yourself or him/her.
>>
>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>
>>
> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to tolerate
> chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out in my case.
>
> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and explain
> what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.

That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than any
human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence and frail
bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it their all, and remain
in control until the bitter end. It is easy for me to understand why the
Egyptians considered them to be Gods.....

Mack A. Damia
June 29th 13, 10:21 PM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react.
>>> It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not
>>> quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of
>>> life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for,
>>> yourself or him/her.
>>>
>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>
>>>
>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to tolerate
>> chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out in my case.
>>
>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and explain
>> what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>
>That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than any
>human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence and frail
>bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it their all, and remain
>in control until the bitter end. It is easy for me to understand why the
>Egyptians considered them to be Gods.....

Did you see "Life of Pi"?

--

Bill Graham
June 29th 13, 10:31 PM
Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> dgk wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react.
>>>> It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not
>>>> quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of
>>>> life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for,
>>>> yourself or him/her.
>>>>
>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to
>>> tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out
>>> in my case.
>>>
>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and explain
>>> what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>
>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than
>> any human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence
>> and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it
>> their all, and remain in control until the bitter end. It is easy
>> for me to understand why the Egyptians considered them to be
>> Gods.....
>
> Did you see "Life of Pi"?

No. Is it about cats?

Mack A. Damia
June 29th 13, 10:41 PM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:31:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> dgk wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may react.
>>>>> It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now they're not
>>>>> quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and decent quality of
>>>>> life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is being kept alive for,
>>>>> yourself or him/her.
>>>>>
>>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>>>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to
>>>> tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out
>>>> in my case.
>>>>
>>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and explain
>>>> what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>>
>>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than
>>> any human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence
>>> and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it
>>> their all, and remain in control until the bitter end. It is easy
>>> for me to understand why the Egyptians considered them to be
>>> Gods.....
>>
>> Did you see "Life of Pi"?
>
>No. Is it about cats?

I think you are a religious guy; you might enjoy it. It's about a boy
and a tiger.

--

Bill Graham
June 29th 13, 10:49 PM
Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:31:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> dgk wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may
>>>>>> react. It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now
>>>>>> they're not quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and
>>>>>> decent quality of life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is
>>>>>> being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>>>>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to
>>>>> tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out
>>>>> in my case.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and
>>>>> explain what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than
>>>> any human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence
>>>> and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it
>>>> their all, and remain in control until the bitter end. It is easy
>>>> for me to understand why the Egyptians considered them to be
>>>> Gods.....
>>>
>>> Did you see "Life of Pi"?
>>
>> No. Is it about cats?
>
> I think you are a religious guy; you might enjoy it. It's about a boy
> and a tiger.

I just read Wikipedia's synopsys of the film. It does seem interesting,
although a bit fantastic. I may like it, but I am not religious. I liked
Grimm's Fairy Tales.....:^)

Mack A. Damia
June 29th 13, 11:45 PM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:49:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:31:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> dgk wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may
>>>>>>> react. It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now
>>>>>>> they're not quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and
>>>>>>> decent quality of life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is
>>>>>>> being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>>>>>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to
>>>>>> tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out
>>>>>> in my case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and
>>>>>> explain what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than
>>>>> any human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence
>>>>> and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it
>>>>> their all, and remain in control until the bitter end. It is easy
>>>>> for me to understand why the Egyptians considered them to be
>>>>> Gods.....
>>>>
>>>> Did you see "Life of Pi"?
>>>
>>> No. Is it about cats?
>>
>> I think you are a religious guy; you might enjoy it. It's about a boy
>> and a tiger.
>
>I just read Wikipedia's synopsys of the film. It does seem interesting,
>although a bit fantastic. I may like it, but I am not religious. I liked
>Grimm's Fairy Tales.....:^)

It's fairly profound, and there is no definitive answers to the
question, "What was the reality of the story?".

Gimm's fairy tales always had a moral to the story. This does, too.

--

Bill Graham
June 30th 13, 12:12 AM
Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:49:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:31:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> dgk wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may
>>>>>>>> react. It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now
>>>>>>>> they're not quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and
>>>>>>>> decent quality of life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is
>>>>>>>> being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have
>>>>>>> cats that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed
>>>>>>> to tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't
>>>>>>> work out in my case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and
>>>>>>> explain what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character
>>>>>> than any human being I have ever known. With their limited
>>>>>> intelligence and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and
>>>>>> then give it their all, and remain in control until the bitter
>>>>>> end. It is easy for me to understand why the Egyptians
>>>>>> considered them to be Gods.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you see "Life of Pi"?
>>>>
>>>> No. Is it about cats?
>>>
>>> I think you are a religious guy; you might enjoy it. It's about a
>>> boy and a tiger.
>>
>> I just read Wikipedia's synopsys of the film. It does seem
>> interesting, although a bit fantastic. I may like it, but I am not
>> religious. I liked Grimm's Fairy Tales.....:^)
>
> It's fairly profound, and there is no definitive answers to the
> question, "What was the reality of the story?".
>
> Gimm's fairy tales always had a moral to the story. This does, too.

Yes. And this is what distinguishes a classic story from just another, "pop
culture" tale. I'll order it and watch it.

dgk
July 1st 13, 03:20 PM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:49:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:31:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:03:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> dgk wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:18:34 -0400, buglady
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/27/2013 8:39 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ............Well, you never know how any disease or cat may
>>>>>>> react. It could be a whole new ballgame. But you do know now
>>>>>>> they're not quite telling the truth when they say 2 years and
>>>>>>> decent quality of life. One has to ask oneself who the cat is
>>>>>>> being kept alive for, yourself or him/her.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My cat was over 15 also.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think they were lying; I think they probably did have cats
>>>>>> that do very well on chemo. I know that cats are supposed to
>>>>>> tolerate chemo much better than people do. It just didn't work out
>>>>>> in my case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what makes it so hard; we can't talk to our cats and
>>>>>> explain what's going on. All we can do is what we think is best.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I love them so much. They have loads more character than
>>>>> any human being I have ever known. With their limited intelligence
>>>>> and frail bodies they choose a path of action, and then give it
>>>>> their all, and remain in control until the bitter end. It is easy
>>>>> for me to understand why the Egyptians considered them to be
>>>>> Gods.....
>>>>
>>>> Did you see "Life of Pi"?
>>>
>>> No. Is it about cats?
>>
>> I think you are a religious guy; you might enjoy it. It's about a boy
>> and a tiger.
>
>I just read Wikipedia's synopsys of the film. It does seem interesting,
>although a bit fantastic. I may like it, but I am not religious. I liked
>Grimm's Fairy Tales.....:^)

I did see it. A very nice movie and well worth a few hours of your
time. A boy and his cat.

July 12th 13, 12:27 AM
On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> We have a single family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old. We have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted her from a friend. She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has been well cared for. She has lost some weight recently. The vet took x-rays and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had them also reviewed by a radiologist. Before we got the test results back, the vet had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her weight up, and we have been doing that with success. When the results came back, the vet and radiologist both agreed that there is lung cancer (spots on the x-rays), and that the blood work indicates there is not pneumonia. The vet says our cat could die at any time, and is, or may be, in some discomfort. We are not sure whether the cat is in pain, although she has probably been more sedentary than usual recently. Our vet is a long-time personal friend, whom we trust very much, and we have no reason to doubt the diagnosis. Our family has a strong emotional attachment to this cat. We are struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when. As far as trying to save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for us. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


Thank you.

I was the original poster to this thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/nuGihsE--8I

Thank you to everyone who contributed.
Your posts helped us a lot and we finally had our cat put to sleep recently..
It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting her, and she went out quickly.
It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
She had a good, long life.
Thanks again very much.

buglady[_2_]
July 12th 13, 01:17 PM
On 7/11/2013 7:27 PM, wrote:

> It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting her, and she went out quickly.
> It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
> She had a good, long life.
> Thanks again very much.
>
............My condolences. It's always hard, doesn't matter how many
animals you've had in your life. It's as if it's the first
time.....every time you have to do it.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

MLB[_4_]
July 12th 13, 07:23 PM
On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:27:06 -0700, tmpdirr wrote:

> On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> We have a single family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old. We
>> have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted her
>> from a friend. She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has been
>> well cared for. She has lost some weight recently. The vet took x-rays
>> and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had them also
>> reviewed by a radiologist. Before we got the test results back, the vet
>> had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her weight up, and
>> we have been doing that with success. When the results came back, the
>> vet and radiologist both agreed that there is lung cancer (spots on the
>> x-rays), and that the blood work indicates there is not pneumonia. The
>> vet says our cat could die at any time, and is, or may be, in some
>> discomfort. We are not sure whether the cat is in pain, although she
>> has probably been more sedentary than usual recently. Our vet is a
>> long-time personal friend, whom we trust very much, and we have no
>> reason to doubt the diagnosis. Our family has a strong emotional
>> attachment to this cat. We are struggling with what to do, including
>> whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when. As far as trying to
>> save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred
>> dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult
>> or unrealistic for us. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was the original poster to this thread:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/
nuGihsE--8I
>
> Thank you to everyone who contributed.
> Your posts helped us a lot and we finally had our cat put to sleep
> recently.
> It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting
> her, and she went out quickly.
> It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
> She had a good, long life.
> Thanks again very much.
++++++++++++
".....Rise up slowly, Angel...."
It's hard to let you go.
Sincere condolences. MLB

Mack A. Damia
July 12th 13, 07:29 PM
On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 18:23:45 +0000 (UTC), MLB >
wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:27:06 -0700, tmpdirr wrote:
>
>> On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>>> We have a single family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old. We
>>> have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted her
>>> from a friend. She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has been
>>> well cared for. She has lost some weight recently. The vet took x-rays
>>> and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had them also
>>> reviewed by a radiologist. Before we got the test results back, the vet
>>> had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her weight up, and
>>> we have been doing that with success. When the results came back, the
>>> vet and radiologist both agreed that there is lung cancer (spots on the
>>> x-rays), and that the blood work indicates there is not pneumonia. The
>>> vet says our cat could die at any time, and is, or may be, in some
>>> discomfort. We are not sure whether the cat is in pain, although she
>>> has probably been more sedentary than usual recently. Our vet is a
>>> long-time personal friend, whom we trust very much, and we have no
>>> reason to doubt the diagnosis. Our family has a strong emotional
>>> attachment to this cat. We are struggling with what to do, including
>>> whether to have her put to sleep, and if so, when. As far as trying to
>>> save or prolong her life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred
>>> dollars, which we can afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult
>>> or unrealistic for us. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> I was the original poster to this thread:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/
>nuGihsE--8I
>>
>> Thank you to everyone who contributed.
>> Your posts helped us a lot and we finally had our cat put to sleep
>> recently.
>> It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting
>> her, and she went out quickly.
>> It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
>> She had a good, long life.
>> Thanks again very much.
>++++++++++++
>".....Rise up slowly, Angel...."
>It's hard to let you go.
>Sincere condolences. MLB


“Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet
friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own
lives.” - John Galsworthy

Condolences on your loss.........

--

Bill Graham
July 12th 13, 10:09 PM
wrote:
> On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> We have a single family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old.
>> We have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted
>> her from a friend. She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has
>> been well cared for. She has lost some weight recently. The vet took
>> x-rays and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had
>> them also reviewed by a radiologist. Before we got the test results
>> back, the vet had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her
>> weight up, and we have been doing that with success. When the
>> results came back, the vet and radiologist both agreed that there is
>> lung cancer (spots on the x-rays), and that the blood work indicates
>> there is not pneumonia. The vet says our cat could die at any time,
>> and is, or may be, in some discomfort. We are not sure whether the
>> cat is in pain, although she has probably been more sedentary than
>> usual recently. Our vet is a long-time personal friend, whom we
>> trust very much, and we have no reason to doubt the diagnosis. Our
>> family has a strong emotional attachment to this cat. We are
>> struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to
>> sleep, and if so, when. As far as trying to save or prolong her
>> life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can
>> afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for
>> us. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was the original poster to this thread:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/nuGihsE--8I
>
> Thank you to everyone who contributed.
> Your posts helped us a lot and we finally had our cat put to sleep
> recently.
> It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting
> her, and she went out quickly.
> It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
> She had a good, long life.
> Thanks again very much.

This is often the best course of action to take. I wish, were I to get some
debilitating disease that wouled cause me a lot of suffering and hospital
time, that someone would sneak up behind me and dispatch me so easily.
Unfortuantely, us humans have it set up for us to suffer needlessly.

dgk
July 15th 13, 02:29 PM
On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 14:09:10 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

wrote:
>> On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>>> We have a single family pet, a female Manx cat, who is 13 years old.
>>> We have had her since a couple of months after birth, having adopted
>>> her from a friend. She has always been an indoors-only cat, and has
>>> been well cared for. She has lost some weight recently. The vet took
>>> x-rays and blood work, examined the x-rays and test results, and had
>>> them also reviewed by a radiologist. Before we got the test results
>>> back, the vet had suggested we try feeding baby food to help get her
>>> weight up, and we have been doing that with success. When the
>>> results came back, the vet and radiologist both agreed that there is
>>> lung cancer (spots on the x-rays), and that the blood work indicates
>>> there is not pneumonia. The vet says our cat could die at any time,
>>> and is, or may be, in some discomfort. We are not sure whether the
>>> cat is in pain, although she has probably been more sedentary than
>>> usual recently. Our vet is a long-time personal friend, whom we
>>> trust very much, and we have no reason to doubt the diagnosis. Our
>>> family has a strong emotional attachment to this cat. We are
>>> struggling with what to do, including whether to have her put to
>>> sleep, and if so, when. As far as trying to save or prolong her
>>> life, the checkup and tests ran a few hundred dollars, which we can
>>> afford, but costs over $1,000 would be difficult or unrealistic for
>>> us. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> I was the original poster to this thread:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/nuGihsE--8I
>>
>> Thank you to everyone who contributed.
>> Your posts helped us a lot and we finally had our cat put to sleep
>> recently.
>> It was just an injection from our vet, while our daughter was petting
>> her, and she went out quickly.
>> It was a difficult situation, but it really was time.
>> She had a good, long life.
>> Thanks again very much.
>
>This is often the best course of action to take. I wish, were I to get some
>debilitating disease that wouled cause me a lot of suffering and hospital
>time, that someone would sneak up behind me and dispatch me so easily.
>Unfortuantely, us humans have it set up for us to suffer needlessly.

Slippery slope argument - although I think we need some way of
accomplishing this. Still, at least for pets it is often the best
thing to do although it hurts us so much. Condolences to the OP.