PDA

View Full Version : Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords


John Doe
September 8th 13, 12:56 AM
My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment complex.
Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They start
chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area on the
floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.

If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in an
instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will freak
out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through an
electrical cord. It just can't happen.

Bill Graham
September 9th 13, 07:16 AM
John Doe wrote:
> My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
> keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment complex.
> Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They start
> chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area on the
> floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
> electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
> start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
> to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
> one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.
>
> If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in an
> instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will freak
> out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through an
> electrical cord. It just can't happen.

It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that way, as
soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and the cat probably
won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your electricasl wires are
swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The cats will have to chew through
those first, and then as soon as it bites into the hot wire, the ground
current will trip the breaker off and it won't come back on until/unless you
reset it. Most new houses have these in the bathrooms and kitchens, but
there is no reason why you couldn't put them throughout your house. They are
great for young pets and children who are likely to mess with the wiring.

John Doe
September 9th 13, 08:52 PM
Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
(at least over the outlet's rated current).

If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.

It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.

This troll must be drunk...


--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 01:16:36 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 23:16:28 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 26
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-ejDs1ch+9GTRloKJ9EYNNGpcFM8wrVa3FC0JgTB4vMrreHee6s gDa3Qa5HmcNADdPbp+TRVpJ3fbMHO!r6yRKFnwhraMc3i+iJVM C1UzPT58XX9YR10DtUP7Yb8V+gqhye6U5Fg+YCe1daSP+BvxG6 eZlMJ6
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 2865
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11356
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
>> keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment complex.
>> Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They start
>> chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area on the
>> floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
>> electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
>> start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
>> to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
>> one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.
>>
>> If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in an
>> instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will freak
>> out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through an
>> electrical cord. It just can't happen.
>
> It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that way, as
> soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and the cat probably
> won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your electricasl wires are
> swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The cats will have to chew through
> those first, and then as soon as it bites into the hot wire, the ground
> current will trip the breaker off and it won't come back on until/unless you
> reset it. Most new houses have these in the bathrooms and kitchens, but
> there is no reason why you couldn't put them throughout your house. They are
> great for young pets and children who are likely to mess with the wiring.
>
>
>

John Doe
September 10th 13, 03:35 AM
> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.

That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through your
cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are many
possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva contact
the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility though, as you
can experience by cutting through an appliance wire. As a kid, you
might have touched a 9 V battery to your tongue. If you did the same
with a 120 V wire prong (like a snake's tongue), it would probably go
BOOM and burn a serious hole in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try
that experiment.

Bill Graham
September 10th 13, 06:15 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
> States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
> in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
> (at least over the outlet's rated current).
>
> If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
> cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
> make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
> to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
> followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
> piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.
>
> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.

You either didn't read my post, or don't understand it. I am talking about a
special kind of circuit breaker, called, "Ground Fault Interrupter" Circuit
breakers. These detect very small amounts of current leaking to ground, and
pull the breaker immediately when they do. Current drawn between one side of
the line and the other doesn't count. Its current drawn to the ground on
grounded devices that trips the breaker when it is less than 10 milliaMPS.
they use them maiunly in baths and kitchens where there is water, but there
is no reason why they can't be usede anywhere in the house, as long as there
exists a ground to draw the current. Most electrical cords arent shielded,
so the GFI wouldn;t work. But you casn get shielded cords for anything, and
as long ss the shield is grounded at the Circuit Breaker end, it will trip
the breaker as soon as 10 milliamps of ground current is detected. When a
cat chews through the shield and hits a live wire, the ground current
through the shield will trip the breaker. Ask an elecftrician about them....
He wiull be able to install them anywhere in your home that you please.

Bill Graham
September 10th 13, 06:19 AM
John Doe wrote:
>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>
> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through your
> cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are many
> possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva contact
> the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility though, as you
> can experience by cutting through an appliance wire. As a kid, you
> might have touched a 9 V battery to your tongue. If you did the same
> with a 120 V wire prong (like a snake's tongue), it would probably go
> BOOM and burn a serious hole in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try
> that experiment.

Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read about them
here:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html

Bill Graham
September 10th 13, 06:41 AM
Bill Graham wrote:
> John Doe wrote:
>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>
>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through your
>> cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
>> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
>> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are many
>> possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva contact
>> the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility though, as you
>> can experience by cutting through an appliance wire. As a kid, you
>> might have touched a 9 V battery to your tongue. If you did the same
>> with a 120 V wire prong (like a snake's tongue), it would probably go
>> BOOM and burn a serious hole in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try
>> that experiment.
>
> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
> about them here:
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html

Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly. There
is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his hand into the
saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop the saw so fast that
it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this requires more than just the
GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he is able to do both, using a GFI to
initiate the process.....

John Doe
September 10th 13, 04:08 PM
Crazy talk...

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:41:46 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <l0m0go$m4r$1 dont-email.me> <DYidnaG6sM9BNrPPnZ2dnUVZ5hGdnZ2d giganews.com>
> In-Reply-To: <DYidnaG6sM9BNrPPnZ2dnUVZ5hGdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:41:40 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <Z76dnf9cUOGHLLPPnZ2dnUVZ5vWdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 29
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-F6SkHCjplnaSk0lljeH1YOocdIQ8XoTEkEhS1Yb8Q6KHgPFx7O pZMldqb2tKkH77GOBk4iIfFHehRMp!ATHv/7d5I6NHqtkpqs0s5u8pRWkg5nHrbGP4PPUH78XuvRb9I91oKSB KMhvwWcnHcnMrZc9OQJmk
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 3008
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11361
>
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>
>>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through your
>>> cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
>>> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
>>> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are many
>>> possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva contact
>>> the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility though, as you
>>> can experience by cutting through an appliance wire. As a kid, you
>>> might have touched a 9 V battery to your tongue. If you did the same
>>> with a 120 V wire prong (like a snake's tongue), it would probably go
>>> BOOM and burn a serious hole in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try
>>> that experiment.
>>
>> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
>> about them here:
>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html
>
> Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly. There
> is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his hand into the
> saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop the saw so fast that
> it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this requires more than just the
> GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he is able to do both, using a GFI to
> initiate the process.....
>
>
>

John Doe
September 10th 13, 04:17 PM
Anybody who knows anything about electricity would know what I am
talking about. I'm talking about current flowing from one wire to
the other through your cat's mouth. It has nothing to do with
current flowing through your cat to a tub of water or whatever.
There is no abnormal current flow, your cat's mouth acts like a
circuit. I don't need to ask an electrician, I know plenty about
electricity and electronics. Besides, I've experienced the thing.

Again... All you have to do is test your theory. And please record
the video...

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:15:25 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:15:19 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 31
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-CSnPIBcLEn6273xLElN0XFzNNwuSA5fyTvF34V8OdorrILGVOl 0Kf5/8KRva0NTxxqrb11l7wGSA1U1!Ah17ogBWBSfTEE6+HjdIfXxxi 91NK07voWx3+G45CGSD5753LcybmsWKS+F+9Mp5qUkxPuyOQjB G
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 3267
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11359 free.usenet:4630323 free.spirit:1100
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
>> States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
>> in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
>> (at least over the outlet's rated current).
>>
>> If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
>> cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
>> make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
>> to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
>> followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
>> piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.
>>
>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>
> You either didn't read my post, or don't understand it. I am talking about a
> special kind of circuit breaker, called, "Ground Fault Interrupter" Circuit
> breakers. These detect very small amounts of current leaking to ground, and
> pull the breaker immediately when they do. Current drawn between one side of
> the line and the other doesn't count. Its current drawn to the ground on
> grounded devices that trips the breaker when it is less than 10 milliaMPS.
> they use them maiunly in baths and kitchens where there is water, but there
> is no reason why they can't be usede anywhere in the house, as long as there
> exists a ground to draw the current. Most electrical cords arent shielded,
> so the GFI wouldn;t work. But you casn get shielded cords for anything, and
> as long ss the shield is grounded at the Circuit Breaker end, it will trip
> the breaker as soon as 10 milliamps of ground current is detected. When a
> cat chews through the shield and hits a live wire, the ground current
> through the shield will trip the breaker. Ask an elecftrician about them....
> He wiull be able to install them anywhere in your home that you please.
>
>

Bill Graham
September 11th 13, 03:11 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Anybody who knows anything about electricity would know what I am
> talking about. I'm talking about current flowing from one wire to
> the other through your cat's mouth. It has nothing to do with
> current flowing through your cat to a tub of water or whatever.
> There is no abnormal current flow, your cat's mouth acts like a
> circuit. I don't need to ask an electrician, I know plenty about
> electricity and electronics. Besides, I've experienced the thing.
>
> Again... All you have to do is test your theory. And please record
> the video...
>
>
>> Path:
>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:15:25 -0500
>> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>> dont-email.me>
>> In-Reply-To: <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me>
>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>> electrical cords
>> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:15:19 -0700
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
>> reply-type=original
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
>> Message-ID: <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>> Lines: 31
>> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>> X-Trace:
>> sv3-CSnPIBcLEn6273xLElN0XFzNNwuSA5fyTvF34V8OdorrILGVOl 0Kf5/8KRva0NTxxqrb11l7wGSA1U1!Ah17ogBWBSfTEE6+HjdIfXxxi 91NK07voWx3+G45CGSD5753LcybmsWKS+F+9Mp5qUkxPuyOQjB G
>> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
>> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL
>> headers
>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
>> complaint properly
>> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
>> X-Original-Bytes: 3267
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11359
>> free.usenet:4630323 free.spirit:1100
>>
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
>>> States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
>>> in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
>>> (at least over the outlet's rated current).
>>>
>>> If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
>>> cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
>>> make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
>>> to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
>>> followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
>>> piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.
>>>
>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>
>> You either didn't read my post, or don't understand it. I am talking
>> about a
>> special kind of circuit breaker, called, "Ground Fault Interrupter"
>> Circuit
>> breakers. These detect very small amounts of current leaking to
>> ground, and
>> pull the breaker immediately when they do. Current drawn between one
>> side of
>> the line and the other doesn't count. Its current drawn to the
>> ground on
>> grounded devices that trips the breaker when it is less than 10
>> milliaMPS.
>> they use them maiunly in baths and kitchens where there is water,
>> but there
>> is no reason why they can't be usede anywhere in the house, as long
>> as there
>> exists a ground to draw the current. Most electrical cords arent
>> shielded,
>> so the GFI wouldn;t work. But you casn get shielded cords for
>> anything, and
>> as long ss the shield is grounded at the Circuit Breaker end, it
>> will trip
>> the breaker as soon as 10 milliamps of ground current is detected.
>> When a
>> cat chews through the shield and hits a live wire, the ground current
>> through the shield will trip the breaker. Ask an elecftrician about
>> them....
>> He wiull be able to install them anywhere in your home that you
>> please.

GFI's have been around for many years. They automatically pull the breaker
before any high current gets into your cat's mouth. If you, "know all about
electricity" then you should know about GFI's. I sent you a link. If you
donl;t want to read it or learn anything, that's your business. I have
completed my obligation. You can lead someone to knowlkege, but you can't
make him learn...

John Doe
September 11th 13, 04:03 AM
If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naÔve.

I regularly post questions to electronics groups here on USENET.
I'll be happy to further discuss the issue in any such electronics
group.

Fifteen amps is more than enough to burn a hole through your cat's
mouth. And yet it does not exceed a typical outlet's current
sourcing ability. And that current can be sourced indefinitely.
Just like running a 15 amp vacuum cleaner.

When you cut through a wire that's plugged into the wall, the
current is going from one wire to the other. And it goes BOOM! And
part of your tool is gone. That's because a certain amount of time
is required to trip a circuit breaker. In that extremely short
time time, hundreds (a rough estimate) of amps flow from one wire
to the other.

Again... I'm not talking about current going someplace else. I'm
talking about current flowing through your cat's mouth as if it's
an electrical circuit, or as if you have accidentally cut through
a wire with a conductive device.

If you don't believe me, again, do it yourself. Remove the cord
from some electrical device. Make sure that the wires are not
touching each other at the severed end. Plug the wire into the
wall. Put on some rubber gloves or find some other way to insulate
yourself. Cut the wire with diagonal cutting pliers. It will freak
you out, guaranteed. And be sure your circuit breakers are working
properly before you do so. And be sure to make the video...



--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.bbs-scene.org!border4.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nn tp.dca.giganews.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com! Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com !nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!ne ws.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:11:50 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:11:43 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 101
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-mfp+wPmqB1e21MfBSAfsUSsbI4OTPQgygzDQC/NltwidnNycKzn76ZDvTQVsVB7Rx4FwkJ/DUKtIY9R!NQpmE635/hIs3dH8o4etZG6eITisFhwg5mOaLmiKSXQoOQQg0KZ8SU6U27V MJCp3kEws4e2ZBVOp
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 6254
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11367 free.usenet:4635430 free.spirit:1104
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> Anybody who knows anything about electricity would know what I am
>> talking about. I'm talking about current flowing from one wire to
>> the other through your cat's mouth. It has nothing to do with
>> current flowing through your cat to a tub of water or whatever.
>> There is no abnormal current flow, your cat's mouth acts like a
>> circuit. I don't need to ask an electrician, I know plenty about
>> electricity and electronics. Besides, I've experienced the thing.
>>
>> Again... All you have to do is test your theory. And please record
>> the video...
>>
>>
>>> Path:
>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 00:15:25 -0500
>>> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>> dont-email.me>
>>> In-Reply-To: <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me>
>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>> electrical cords
>>> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:15:19 -0700
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
>>> reply-type=original
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> X-Priority: 3
>>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
>>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
>>> Message-ID: <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>> Lines: 31
>>> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>>> X-Trace:
>>> sv3-CSnPIBcLEn6273xLElN0XFzNNwuSA5fyTvF34V8OdorrILGVOl 0Kf5/8KRva0NTxxqrb11l7wGSA1U1!Ah17ogBWBSfTEE6+HjdIfXxxi 91NK07voWx3+G45CGSD5753LcybmsWKS+F+9Mp5qUkxPuyOQjB G
>>> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
>>> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html

>>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL
>>> headers
>>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
>>> complaint properly
>>> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
>>> X-Original-Bytes: 3267
>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11359
>>> free.usenet:4630323 free.spirit:1100
>>>
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> Circuit breakers have been used for ages (here in the United
>>>> States). They are used on every circuit in a house. Problem is,
>>>> in order to detect a short circuit, current must be extremely high
>>>> (at least over the outlet's rated current).
>>>>
>>>> If you think it's not going to hurt your cats, test your theory by
>>>> cutting through a wire that's plugged into the wall. Be sure to
>>>> make a video. In case it kills you, leave a note for somebody else
>>>> to upload the video. What you will probably experience is a "BOOM"
>>>> followed by the circuit breaker tripping. And you will notice a
>>>> piece of your diagonal cutting pliers is missing.
>>>>
>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>
>>> You either didn't read my post, or don't understand it. I am talking
>>> about a
>>> special kind of circuit breaker, called, "Ground Fault Interrupter"
>>> Circuit
>>> breakers. These detect very small amounts of current leaking to
>>> ground, and
>>> pull the breaker immediately when they do. Current drawn between one
>>> side of
>>> the line and the other doesn't count. Its current drawn to the
>>> ground on
>>> grounded devices that trips the breaker when it is less than 10
>>> milliaMPS.
>>> they use them maiunly in baths and kitchens where there is water,
>>> but there
>>> is no reason why they can't be usede anywhere in the house, as long
>>> as there
>>> exists a ground to draw the current. Most electrical cords arent
>>> shielded,
>>> so the GFI wouldn;t work. But you casn get shielded cords for
>>> anything, and
>>> as long ss the shield is grounded at the Circuit Breaker end, it
>>> will trip
>>> the breaker as soon as 10 milliamps of ground current is detected.
>>> When a
>>> cat chews through the shield and hits a live wire, the ground current
>>> through the shield will trip the breaker. Ask an elecftrician about
>>> them....
>>> He wiull be able to install them anywhere in your home that you
>>> please.
>
> GFI's have been around for many years. They automatically pull the breaker
> before any high current gets into your cat's mouth. If you, "know all about
> electricity" then you should know about GFI's. I sent you a link. If you
> donl;t want to read it or learn anything, that's your business. I have
> completed my obligation. You can lead someone to knowlkege, but you can't
> make him learn...
>
>
>

September 11th 13, 04:44 AM
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> wrote:

>If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naÔve.
>

FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

John Doe
September 11th 13, 04:58 AM
Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

--
infodex mindspring.com wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: infodex mindspring.com
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:44:14 -0400
> Lines: 10
> Message-ID: <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com>
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Trace: individual.net sIctFERd0MvkmEDUhyMkBQq1qcKnOWMxG2WxyCbk0HdkD5lQlO
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:YKOvFr1qeu1j82ye1XRT7FJnn30=
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11369 free.usenet:4635455 free.spirit:1106
>
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>
>>If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>>table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely načve.
>>
>
> FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
> years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
> not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.
>

September 11th 13, 05:47 AM
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> wrote:

>Full of **** up to its eyebrows...

See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

John Doe
September 11th 13, 08:13 AM
Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
kittens chewing on electrical cords.

Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.

The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
(alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
blade...



--
infodex mindspring.com wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: infodex mindspring.com
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:24 -0400
> Lines: 10
> Message-ID: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Trace: individual.net V7ig75SBGTId60lVg9rrLADnvGQCGCeI/2w+JD4RPSUqSM8jSp
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:OAk0z2k4j41tcdK9UGOZ9qLuwuk=
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11371 free.usenet:4635498 free.spirit:1109
>
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>
> See for yourself.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>
>
>

reilloc
September 12th 13, 06:58 PM
On 9/9/2013 1:16 AM, Bill Graham wrote:
> John Doe wrote:
>> My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
>> keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment complex.
>> Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They start
>> chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area on the
>> floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
>> electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
>> start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
>> to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
>> one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.
>>
>> If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in an
>> instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will freak
>> out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through an
>> electrical cord. It just can't happen.
>
> It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that way,
> as soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and the cat
> probably won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your electricasl
> wires are swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The cats will have
> to chew through those first, and then as soon as it bites into the hot
> wire, the ground current will trip the breaker off and it won't come
> back on until/unless you reset it. Most new houses have these in the
> bathrooms and kitchens, but there is no reason why you couldn't put them
> throughout your house. They are great for young pets and children who
> are likely to mess with the wiring.

I don't like to get involved in a private fight but when the stakes are
life and death, I'll say something. Bill, first you need the short for
the GFI to trip and when the short's through the mouth, the damage has
already been done.

LNC

Bill Graham
September 13th 13, 02:41 AM
wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> > wrote:
>
>> If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>> table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely naÔve.
>>
>
> FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
> years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
> not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

Thee are two things that must be done. Remove the power from the saw blade
motor, and swtop the blade. Removing the power is easy. The Ground Fault
Interrupter circuitry does that. (In spite of what John Doe says) Stopping
the blade is something else. They do that with a brake that pulls a stopping
link into a toothed wheel that moves weith the say, or into the saw blade
itself. In either case, the result is usually to damage the blade beyone
repair, so when the device doesw its job, you have to replace all that
stuff. (the saw blade and other stuff that you have to use to stop it.) But
all that is still better than losing your fingers. I saw a demo of this on a
you tube clip a while back. I'll see if I can find it. In any case,
stoppoing the saw from hurting someone is harder than just stopping the
current into a cat's or chilkds mouth. These GFI's can do that handily. But
they work on ground current and not the main current that drives the device,
so there must be a ground circuit for them to sense the current in, or they
won't work.

Bill Graham
September 13th 13, 02:50 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>
>
>> Path:
>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>> electrical cords
>> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:44:14 -0400
>> Lines: 10
>> Message-ID: <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com>
>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> X-Trace: individual.net
>> sIctFERd0MvkmEDUhyMkBQq1qcKnOWMxG2WxyCbk0HdkD5lQlO
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:YKOvFr1qeu1j82ye1XRT7FJnn30=
>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11369
>> free.usenet:4635455 free.spirit:1106
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>>> table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely načve.
>>>
>>
>> FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
>> years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs
>> and
>> not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.

The saw blade is isolated from ground. The operator is not. When the
operator touches the saw blade some ground current is drawn. Even if a very
small amount of this current is detected, it is amplified and used to open
the breaker to the saw, and energise the device that stops the blade. This
happens so fast that the blade is stopped in less than 1/10 of a tooth
distance, so the operator's fingers aren't harmed.

But the main point of this discuwsion concerned opening the breaker so fast
thqt the cat (or chilod) isn't harmed. this part is easy compared with
mechanically stopping the saw blade. These GFI's really work well, and are
very useful. The breaker opens so fast that you don't even feel any slight
shock.

Bill Graham
September 13th 13, 03:02 AM
wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
> > wrote:
>
>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>
> See for yourself.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one didn;t
actually require that the operator touch the saw blade. the one I saw
required actual contact with the blade, whqch necessitates stopping the
blade in les than one tooth's travel in order to not damage the skin. And
this meqns that there was some damage done to the blace by the stopping
mechanism. The capacitive sensing mechqnism that is apparently used in the
newer cevices is a much improved stopping system, since actual cointact with
the blade iswn;t required, and that gives the mechanism a little more time
to stop the blade so it isn't damaged by the brake. You can think of it kind
of like your iPad. You donl;t actually have to touch your iPad in order for
it to sense your fingers presende. Just being very close works, because it
senses the capacitance of your hand. Well, then you can use this to do
anything you want, including pulling a breaker before your cat actually
contacts the wire.

Bill Graham
September 13th 13, 03:07 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
> kittens chewing on electrical cords.
>
> Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
> their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
> Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
> those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
> you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.
>
> The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
> (alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
> those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
> blade...
>
>
>
>
>> Path:
>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>> electrical cords
>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:24 -0400
>> Lines: 10
>> Message-ID: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>> dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> X-Trace: individual.net
>> V7ig75SBGTId60lVg9rrLADnvGQCGCeI/2w+JD4RPSUqSM8jSp
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:OAk0z2k4j41tcdK9UGOZ9qLuwuk=
>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11371
>> free.usenet:4635498 free.spirit:1109
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>
>> See for yourself.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4

Hey! It was just a suggestion to keep your cats from getting their mouths
blown apart. If you don't want to take it, then don't, but don't blame me
for suggesting it. (and don't say that you didn't learn anything by reading
my posts, either)

Bill Graham
September 13th 13, 03:20 AM
reilloc wrote:
> On 9/9/2013 1:16 AM, Bill Graham wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
>>> keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment
>>> complex. Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They
>>> start chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area
>>> on the floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
>>> electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
>>> start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
>>> to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
>>> one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.
>>>
>>> If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in
>>> an instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will
>>> freak out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through
>>> an electrical cord. It just can't happen.
>>
>> It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that
>> way, as soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and
>> the cat probably won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your
>> electricasl wires are swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The
>> cats will have to chew through those first, and then as soon as it
>> bites into the hot wire, the ground current will trip the breaker
>> off and it won't come back on until/unless you reset it. Most new
>> houses have these in the bathrooms and kitchens, but there is no
>> reason why you couldn't put them throughout your house. They are
>> great for young pets and children who are likely to mess with the
>> wiring.
>
> I don't like to get involved in a private fight but when the stakes
> are life and death, I'll say something. Bill, first you need the
> short for the GFI to trip and when the short's through the mouth, the
> damage has already been done.
>
> LNC

Not entirely correct. We are talking about power here. Thqt is the time
integrl of current. It takes time for the current to build up to the point
where it damages your cats mouth, and thewe GFI's will open the breaker in
such a short time that there iw no time for the current to put enough power
into your cat's mouth. They will trip on less than 10 milliamps of ground
current. Also, there will be (ideally) no large current build up unless the
cat contacts both sides of the line at the same time as he creates the
ground current. This will, in all probability, not happen, as soon as he
touches just one side of the line, the ground current will open the breaker
and without contacting both sides of the line, there will be no power draw.
So, the chances of the cat feeling anything at all is very slim. Remember
that these devices don't work on power drawn from one side of the line to
the other. They work on the slightest bit of power being drawn to the
ground shield on the cord. This means that the other end of the ground
shield on the cord has to be connected to the third, "U shaped" connection
on the wall socket. (There has to be some current drawn from one side of the
line to ground in order for the device to work)

September 13th 13, 04:52 AM
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:02:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>
>> See for yourself.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>
>Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one didn;t
>actually require that the operator touch the saw blade. the one I saw
>required actual contact with the blade, whqch necessitates stopping the
>blade in les than one tooth's travel in order to not damage the skin. And
>this meqns that there was some damage done to the blace by the stopping
>mechanism.

Some? In the video I saw the blade and the whole drive mechanism were
toast. The inventor admitted that was a bit of a drawback but argued
it was cheaper than losing fingers.

John Doe
September 13th 13, 05:16 AM
It's a suggestion that won't work.

Again and again and again... The electricity that's most likely to
hurt your cat/kitten will flow from one wire to the other (through
your cat's mouth), not through your cat into a bathtub or
whatever. A device that's intended to subdue leakage (or whatever
it's called) current won't stop the most likely cause of damage.

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.bbs-scene.org!border4.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nn tp.dca.giganews.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com! Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com !nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!ne ws.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:07:45 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com> <l0p566$ivj$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0p566$ivj$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:07:44 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <4rqdnSBYVOns7q_PnZ2dnUVZ5uadnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 57
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-FvI0X/P8NUR3kQm8uDLjEdCyqAnm3ZRBVLGBXPSqtyovKuQCSaCeexnZ SBJhv7lTq3D8Y8D1/Y55MMI!F7ch5rllqBLzEjJ5ncwWk/wV9M2FuTJYrYy2TH9NdJ8tl/MWK7sIsY+JsPylCoNuL6MZXBDworya
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 4053
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11379 free.usenet:4645092 free.spirit:1114
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
>> kittens chewing on electrical cords.
>>
>> Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
>> their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
>> Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
>> those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
>> you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.
>>
>> The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
>> (alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
>> those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
>> blade...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Path:
>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>> electrical cords
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:24 -0400
>>> Lines: 10
>>> Message-ID: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>>> dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> X-Trace: individual.net
>>> V7ig75SBGTId60lVg9rrLADnvGQCGCeI/2w+JD4RPSUqSM8jSp
>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:OAk0z2k4j41tcdK9UGOZ9qLuwuk=
>>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11371
>>> free.usenet:4635498 free.spirit:1109
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>>
>>> See for yourself.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>
> Hey! It was just a suggestion to keep your cats from getting their mouths
> blown apart. If you don't want to take it, then don't, but don't blame me
> for suggesting it. (and don't say that you didn't learn anything by reading
> my posts, either)
>
>
>

John Doe
September 13th 13, 05:24 AM
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> infodex mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>
>> See for yourself.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>
> Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one
> didn;t actually require that the operator touch the saw blade.
> the one I saw required actual contact with the blade, whqch
> necessitates stopping the blade in les than one tooth's travel
> in order to not damage the skin. And this meqns that there was
> some damage done to the blace

How long have you been visiting Earth?

A table saw blade rotates at about 5000 RPM. That's about 83
revolutions per second.

That idea is so very silly... Please post your silliness to either
the home repair group or the woodworking group. It will be good
for a laugh.









--
> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:02:53 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
> In-Reply-To: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:02:52 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <VrKdncQr35XQ76_PnZ2dnUVZ5tSdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 25
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-nWedD4+Lhnpyv6n0kmoWWqbj0/XI5jtARNbdp+416HOiX+XphP0U8pMRtzvzHm90dDzRJ+3yOOWF epO!8N+1JK5nfUbQlzcNzXjkFS1f3R5noR18iE7fRooMKKe5UK +AHQvMSzY5iQMWl6sSbTPsgF51Uhjy
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 2904
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11377 free.usenet:4645090 free.spirit:1113
>

John Doe
September 13th 13, 05:26 AM
I highly recommend not taking this silly person's advice
on anything you don't already know...

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.gi ganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giga news.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganew s.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:50:21 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:50:20 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <SLOdnaBxLfXA8q_PnZ2dnUVZ5jWdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 52
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-Hjj3B3Zf1qx3zjGa38R6K6xWuDbXbuexp4BODsh2nU0ZwtiHAa whv56Inwd7G6jtpho/qTrhW/4HwES!HPdXSD1/luZahIpPBm00N8VAW25jbmVUTRHMrtjwZgEgGAX+gWlDpCkWUj 1Z/t5zE/mseFxaJoQh
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 4044
> X-Received-Bytes: 4185
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11376 free.usenet:4645087 free.spirit:1112
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>
>>
>>> Path:
>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>> electrical cords
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:44:14 -0400
>>> Lines: 10
>>> Message-ID: <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com>
>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> X-Trace: individual.net
>>> sIctFERd0MvkmEDUhyMkBQq1qcKnOWMxG2WxyCbk0HdkD5lQlO
>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:YKOvFr1qeu1j82ye1XRT7FJnn30=
>>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11369
>>> free.usenet:4635455 free.spirit:1106
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>>>> table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely na<ve.
>>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
>>> years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs
>>> and
>>> not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.
>
> The saw blade is isolated from ground. The operator is not. When the
> operator touches the saw blade some ground current is drawn. Even if a very
> small amount of this current is detected, it is amplified and used to open
> the breaker to the saw, and energise the device that stops the blade. This
> happens so fast that the blade is stopped in less than 1/10 of a tooth
> distance, so the operator's fingers aren't harmed.
>
> But the main point of this discuwsion concerned opening the breaker so fast
> thqt the cat (or chilod) isn't harmed. this part is easy compared with
> mechanically stopping the saw blade. These GFI's really work well, and are
> very useful. The breaker opens so fast that you don't even feel any slight
> shock.
>
>
>

John Doe
September 13th 13, 05:30 AM
I'm more than happy to discuss this in an electronics group
or in a shop group that uses saws.

This thing is incredibly full of it. Trying to explain why
is pointless, here.

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:41:25 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com>
> In-Reply-To: <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:41:24 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <IOWdnZbgT-fY8K_PnZ2dnUVZ5sednZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 28
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-S5WmBJnJ84rCxz2VN0sfpVp8tJtQh1T1B53v5UW0V9HV21Lnfr zWzTfjcOGOs5x5RzoN2Ps6v8UyDwf!Z9kShjWnKQzL2mVunVDQ 4YzER+zWa9HRQO5xLaQYX35Je4AWMvuLTftYw6FZWr6fAhmg5E PJ60My
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 3154
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11375 free.usenet:4645085 free.spirit:1111
>
> infodex mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:03:07 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> If you believe that you can stick your hand into an operational
>>> table saw blade without getting cut, you are extremely načve.
>>>
>>
>> FWIW, I've seen video demonstrations several times over the past few
>> years, though to be fair the tests are conducted with raw hot dogs and
>> not human fingers. Don't ask me to explain the electronics of it.
>
> Thee are two things that must be done. Remove the power from the saw blade
> motor, and swtop the blade. Removing the power is easy. The Ground Fault
> Interrupter circuitry does that. (In spite of what John Doe says) Stopping
> the blade is something else. They do that with a brake that pulls a stopping
> link into a toothed wheel that moves weith the say, or into the saw blade
> itself. In either case, the result is usually to damage the blade beyone
> repair, so when the device doesw its job, you have to replace all that
> stuff. (the saw blade and other stuff that you have to use to stop it.) But
> all that is still better than losing your fingers. I saw a demo of this on a
> you tube clip a while back. I'll see if I can find it. In any case,
> stoppoing the saw from hurting someone is harder than just stopping the
> current into a cat's or chilkds mouth. These GFI's can do that handily. But
> they work on ground current and not the main current that drives the device,
> so there must be a ground circuit for them to sense the current in, or they
> won't work.
>
>
>

John Doe
September 13th 13, 05:32 AM
A lying sack of ****...

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.gi ganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giga news.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganew s.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:20:04 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0svaq$vsi$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0svaq$vsi$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:20:03 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <nKudnd7R3P_J66_PnZ2dnUVZ5sCdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 55
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-D9hBNKwvo66sXPwhC8/Cz7TPoeCDVL6uCm6tMpayo6oEtAiIfkpMVZX5jedKS8CCHRUPY ycm1n+3wMM!aT+w6UUZbgu3Sm4NHVmsa8Z890z/EggX9mZUyS4wPshQzGWaWp3b/1jEYxzf3Oc52O4s0oAh5sqH
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 4589
> X-Received-Bytes: 4730
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11380
>
> reilloc wrote:
>> On 9/9/2013 1:16 AM, Bill Graham wrote:
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> My first critical application of upside down packaging tape was to
>>>> keep my cat off of the windowsill in a cat-hostile apartment
>>>> complex. Now that I'm temporarily fostering three kittens... They
>>>> start chewing on a group of electrical cords in a very small area
>>>> on the floor. Put two pieces of 4 inch long packaging tape among the
>>>> electrical cords. Reapplied as necessary. I just love it when they
>>>> start whining about having the tape stuck to them, and I get to come
>>>> to their rescue :) It's like cat correction heaven. One half hour to
>>>> one hour later, no more chewing on the electrical cords. BOOM.
>>>>
>>>> If you've ever seen what household current can do to tool-steel in
>>>> an instant (like when you accidentally cut through it), you will
>>>> freak out at the thought of your cats accidentally chewing through
>>>> an electrical cord. It just can't happen.
>>>
>>> It helps to put ground fault protectors on all your circuits. that
>>> way, as soon as some groung current is drawn, the breaker trips and
>>> the cat probably won't feel a thing. This is especially true if your
>>> electricasl wires are swhielded by grounded woven steel cables, The
>>> cats will have to chew through those first, and then as soon as it
>>> bites into the hot wire, the ground current will trip the breaker
>>> off and it won't come back on until/unless you reset it. Most new
>>> houses have these in the bathrooms and kitchens, but there is no
>>> reason why you couldn't put them throughout your house. They are
>>> great for young pets and children who are likely to mess with the
>>> wiring.
>>
>> I don't like to get involved in a private fight but when the stakes
>> are life and death, I'll say something. Bill, first you need the
>> short for the GFI to trip and when the short's through the mouth, the
>> damage has already been done.
>>
>> LNC
>
> Not entirely correct. We are talking about power here. Thqt is the time
> integrl of current. It takes time for the current to build up to the point
> where it damages your cats mouth, and thewe GFI's will open the breaker in
> such a short time that there iw no time for the current to put enough power
> into your cat's mouth. They will trip on less than 10 milliamps of ground
> current. Also, there will be (ideally) no large current build up unless the
> cat contacts both sides of the line at the same time as he creates the
> ground current. This will, in all probability, not happen, as soon as he
> touches just one side of the line, the ground current will open the breaker
> and without contacting both sides of the line, there will be no power draw.
> So, the chances of the cat feeling anything at all is very slim. Remember
> that these devices don't work on power drawn from one side of the line to
> the other. They work on the slightest bit of power being drawn to the
> ground shield on the cord. This means that the other end of the ground
> shield on the cord has to be connected to the third, "U shaped" connection
> on the wall socket. (There has to be some current drawn from one side of the
> line to ground in order for the device to work)
>
>
>

Bill Graham
September 15th 13, 03:53 AM
wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:02:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>>
>>> See for yourself.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>>
>> Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one didn;t
>> actually require that the operator touch the saw blade. the one I saw
>> required actual contact with the blade, whqch necessitates stopping
>> the blade in les than one tooth's travel in order to not damage the
>> skin. And this meqns that there was some damage done to the blace by
>> the stopping mechanism.
>
> Some? In the video I saw the blade and the whole drive mechanism were
> toast. The inventor admitted that was a bit of a drawback but argued
> it was cheaper than losing fingers.


Of course. That is the whole reason for the device. Its not something that
table saw operators do every day. When one of them does do it, it is fitting
that it cost him a lot of money. Saving his fingers is worth a lot of money.

Bill Graham
September 15th 13, 03:59 AM
John Doe wrote:
> It's a suggestion that won't work.
>
> Again and again and again... The electricity that's most likely to
> hurt your cat/kitten will flow from one wire to the other (through
> your cat's mouth), not through your cat into a bathtub or
> whatever. A device that's intended to subdue leakage (or whatever
> it's called) current won't stop the most likely cause of damage.
>
>
>> Path:
>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.bbs-scene.org!border4.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nn tp.dca.giganews.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com! Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com !nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!ne ws.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:07:45 -0500
>> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>> dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>> <l0p566$ivj$1 dont-email.me> In-Reply-To: <l0p566$ivj$1
>> dont-email.me>
>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>> electrical cords
>> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:07:44 -0700
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
>> reply-type=original
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
>> Message-ID: <4rqdnSBYVOns7q_PnZ2dnUVZ5uadnZ2d giganews.com>
>> Lines: 57
>> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>> X-Trace:
>> sv3-FvI0X/P8NUR3kQm8uDLjEdCyqAnm3ZRBVLGBXPSqtyovKuQCSaCeexnZ SBJhv7lTq3D8Y8D1/Y55MMI!F7ch5rllqBLzEjJ5ncwWk/wV9M2FuTJYrYy2TH9NdJ8tl/MWK7sIsY+JsPylCoNuL6MZXBDworya
>> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
>> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL
>> headers
>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
>> complaint properly
>> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
>> X-Original-Bytes: 4053
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11379
>> free.usenet:4645092 free.spirit:1114
>>
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
>>> kittens chewing on electrical cords.
>>>
>>> Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
>>> their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
>>> Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
>>> those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
>>> you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.
>>>
>>> The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
>>> (alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
>>> those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
>>> blade...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Path:
>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>>>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>>> electrical cords
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:24 -0400
>>>> Lines: 10
>>>> Message-ID: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>>>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>>>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>>>> dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>> X-Trace: individual.net
>>>> V7ig75SBGTId60lVg9rrLADnvGQCGCeI/2w+JD4RPSUqSM8jSp
>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:OAk0z2k4j41tcdK9UGOZ9qLuwuk=
>>>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11371
>>>> free.usenet:4635498 free.spirit:1109
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>>>
>>>> See for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>>
>> Hey! It was just a suggestion to keep your cats from getting their
>> mouths
>> blown apart. If you don't want to take it, then don't, but don't
>> blame me
>> for suggesting it. (and don't say that you didn't learn anything by
>> reading
>> my posts, either)
Again and again and again. The ground current leakage pullsd the breaker
before the cast gets down to the two wires that carry the big current.
Otherwise, they wouldn't bother to put these devices on all the bathrooms
built in the last thirty years or so. (big current hurts people too....)

I have explained this enough times to you. This is my last post on the
subject. Not all cast owners are (apparently) at all knowledgeable about
simple electrics or building codes. If you don;t believe in the device,
well, then don't buy it. But don't tell me that it doesn't work. - I know
better.

John Doe
September 15th 13, 05:29 AM
Except for saving face, I have no idea why this thing is spewing
bull**** about such an important issue to cat managers.

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 21:59:22 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com> <l0p566$ivj$1 dont-email.me> <4rqdnSBYVOns7q_PnZ2dnUVZ5uadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0u3j9$ela$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l0u3j9$ela$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 19:59:15 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <Yu-dnduAqbkXv6jPnZ2dnUVZ5rGdnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 121
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-g4Sm21l3cPkyf8lYfKGs1XCRsF7O9Ue3aN5bfF3C/lNgh5hRAUKLppg6lpQO66MdjsmiG5cr5v+am0X!yaAXH4U9bIK LGXu01pU7a5Q/9RMJPu6yCPdcZWJHHCVn5tucnZYJ/rNnuCHdxrkBMH+Rbms6JW5i
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 7457
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11388 free.usenet:4657385 free.spirit:1122
>
> John Doe wrote:
>> It's a suggestion that won't work.
>>
>> Again and again and again... The electricity that's most likely to
>> hurt your cat/kitten will flow from one wire to the other (through
>> your cat's mouth), not through your cat into a bathtub or
>> whatever. A device that's intended to subdue leakage (or whatever
>> it's called) current won't stop the most likely cause of damage.
>>
>>
>>> Path:
>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.bbs-scene.org!border4.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nn tp.dca.giganews.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com! Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com !nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!ne ws.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:07:45 -0500
>>> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>>> dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>>> <l0p566$ivj$1 dont-email.me> In-Reply-To: <l0p566$ivj$1
>>> dont-email.me>
>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>> electrical cords
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:07:44 -0700
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
>>> reply-type=original
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> X-Priority: 3
>>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
>>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
>>> Message-ID: <4rqdnSBYVOns7q_PnZ2dnUVZ5uadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>> Lines: 57
>>> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>>> X-Trace:
>>> sv3-FvI0X/P8NUR3kQm8uDLjEdCyqAnm3ZRBVLGBXPSqtyovKuQCSaCeexnZ SBJhv7lTq3D8Y8D1/Y55MMI!F7ch5rllqBLzEjJ5ncwWk/wV9M2FuTJYrYy2TH9NdJ8tl/MWK7sIsY+JsPylCoNuL6MZXBDworya
>>> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
>>> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
>>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL
>>> headers
>>> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
>>> complaint properly
>>> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
>>> X-Original-Bytes: 4053
>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11379
>>> free.usenet:4645092 free.spirit:1114
>>>
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> Firstly... This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of
>>>> kittens chewing on electrical cords.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly... Nobody in any video on YouTube intentionally sticks
>>>> their hand into a saw blade. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.
>>>> Even if the claim of stopping the blade in 1/8 second is true,
>>>> those blades spin at 10 revolutions per 1/10 second. That means
>>>> you get cut over 600 times using a 60-tooth blade.
>>>>
>>>> The saw stop thing should be taken to a group like
>>>> (alt.home.repair) or (rec.woodworking). Currently I'm in both of
>>>> those groups. Tell them about sticking your hand into a saw
>>>> blade...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Path:
>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!f u-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>>>>> From: infodex mindspring.com
>>>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
>>>>> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on
>>>>> electrical cords
>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:24 -0400
>>>>> Lines: 10
>>>>> Message-ID: <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com>
>>>>> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me>
>>>>> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1
>>>>> dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com>
>>>>> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d
>>>>> giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me>
>>>>> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1
>>>>> dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>> X-Trace: individual.net
>>>>> V7ig75SBGTId60lVg9rrLADnvGQCGCeI/2w+JD4RPSUqSM8jSp
>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:OAk0z2k4j41tcdK9UGOZ9qLuwuk=
>>>>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11371
>>>>> free.usenet:4635498 free.spirit:1109
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>>>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>>>>
>>>>> See for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>>>
>>> Hey! It was just a suggestion to keep your cats from getting their
>>> mouths
>>> blown apart. If you don't want to take it, then don't, but don't
>>> blame me
>>> for suggesting it. (and don't say that you didn't learn anything by
>>> reading
>>> my posts, either)
> Again and again and again. The ground current leakage pullsd the breaker
> before the cast gets down to the two wires that carry the big current.
> Otherwise, they wouldn't bother to put these devices on all the bathrooms
> built in the last thirty years or so. (big current hurts people too....)
>
> I have explained this enough times to you. This is my last post on the
> subject. Not all cast owners are (apparently) at all knowledgeable about
> simple electrics or building codes. If you don;t believe in the device,
> well, then don't buy it. But don't tell me that it doesn't work. - I know
> better.
>
>

John Doe
September 15th 13, 05:37 AM
Still waiting to see a video of a guy sticking his hand into a
table saw...

lol

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 21:53:41 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.usenet,free.spirit
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <rsydnaMEz_pwN7PPnZ2dnUVZ5gadnZ2d giganews.com> <l0nd6l$80v$2 dont-email.me> <8uGdnTquqsr7TLLPnZ2dnUVZ5vydnZ2d giganews.com> <l0omha$o4h$1 dont-email.me> <dkpv291cq7qps1ft4mdjiga1ccg2kt90vr 4ax.com> <l0opoe$4g7$1 dont-email.me> <5etv29lubokjng16285jgcrafmg2sqp263 4ax.com> <VrKdncQr35XQ76_PnZ2dnUVZ5tSdnZ2d giganews.com> <1s2539lal699qb2ritroq3ljebn5drk7p8 4ax.com>
> In-Reply-To: <1s2539lal699qb2ritroq3ljebn5drk7p8 4ax.com>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 19:53:34 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <l-GdncwxpPiovKjPnZ2dnUVZ5tidnZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 30
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-ksRYl+csv3Y7Qp5YKjYwsK4Fx/Bk74xYGYv4Curd6KGvmz0AaKS2bd5PsJwYctPxzWjpAmqQzGXh Z6N!KE2wQu4JYnonRx9cTFA/6thNnvRcUzfcHd7cm8yRApvRzw2WtM603DdfJN6dcvEa+ybpbS 4sSWeE
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 2950
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11387 free.usenet:4657384 free.spirit:1121
>
> infodex mindspring.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:02:52 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> infodex mindspring.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 03:58:06 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>>> <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Full of **** up to its eyebrows...
>>>>
>>>> See for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltFuEKCnM4
>>>
>>> Yes. This is an updated version of the device I saw. This one didn;t
>>> actually require that the operator touch the saw blade. the one I saw
>>> required actual contact with the blade, whqch necessitates stopping
>>> the blade in les than one tooth's travel in order to not damage the
>>> skin. And this meqns that there was some damage done to the blace by
>>> the stopping mechanism.
>>
>> Some? In the video I saw the blade and the whole drive mechanism were
>> toast. The inventor admitted that was a bit of a drawback but argued
>> it was cheaper than losing fingers.
>
>
> Of course. That is the whole reason for the device. Its not something that
> table saw operators do every day. When one of them does do it, it is fitting
> that it cost him a lot of money. Saving his fingers is worth a lot of money.
>
>

chaniarts[_2_]
September 16th 13, 10:06 PM
On 9/9/2013 10:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>
>>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through your
>>> cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
>>> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
>>> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are many
>>> possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva contact
>>> the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility though, as you
>>> can experience by cutting through an appliance wire. As a kid, you
>>> might have touched a 9 V battery to your tongue. If you did the same
>>> with a 120 V wire prong (like a snake's tongue), it would probably go
>>> BOOM and burn a serious hole in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try
>>> that experiment.
>>
>> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
>> about them here:
>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html
>
> Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly.
> There is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his hand
> into the saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop the saw
> so fast that it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this requires
> more than just the GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he is able to
> do both, using a GFI to initiate the process.....

sawstop, and it doesn't use a gfi. it senses the capacitance of the
human body.

Bill Graham
September 17th 13, 05:17 AM
chaniarts wrote:
> On 9/9/2013 10:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>>
>>>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>>>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through
>>>> your cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
>>>> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
>>>> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>>>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are
>>>> many possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva
>>>> contact the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility
>>>> though, as you can experience by cutting through an appliance
>>>> wire. As a kid, you might have touched a 9 V battery to your
>>>> tongue. If you did the same with a 120 V wire prong (like a
>>>> snake's tongue), it would probably go BOOM and burn a serious hole
>>>> in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try that experiment.
>>>
>>> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
>>> about them here:
>>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html
>>
>> Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly.
>> There is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his
>> hand into the saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop
>> the saw so fast that it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this
>> requires more than just the GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he
>> is able to do both, using a GFI to initiate the process.....
>
> sawstop, and it doesn't use a gfi. it senses the capacitance of the
> human body.

Yes. But the essentiuol thing to remember is thsat the circuitry to stop the
saw, or pull the breaker to protect the cat, is completely se3perate from
the circuit that interrupts the power based on too much power draw through
the main circuit. The breaker is tripped , not by too much po9wer being
drawn through it, but by a mechanism that senses the presense of the cat or
the operators fingers. And this requires much less power such as a few
milliambls of ground current, or the capacitance of the finger that is only
close to the saw, and not touching it. My iPad senses my fingers without
actually being touched. It would be entirely possible to build a device that
interrupted thousands of watts of raw power, based on the close proximity of
ones fingers. The GFI does this. It uses a completely seperate circuit to
pull the breaker other than the one that normally pulls it. That's why the
cat's mouth feels no power at all, and he is protected.

Bill Graham
September 17th 13, 05:22 AM
Bill Graham wrote:
> chaniarts wrote:
>> On 9/9/2013 10:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>>>>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through
>>>>> your cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker.
>>>>> The electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would
>>>>> run away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>>>>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are
>>>>> many possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva
>>>>> contact the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility
>>>>> though, as you can experience by cutting through an appliance
>>>>> wire. As a kid, you might have touched a 9 V battery to your
>>>>> tongue. If you did the same with a 120 V wire prong (like a
>>>>> snake's tongue), it would probably go BOOM and burn a serious hole
>>>>> in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try that experiment.
>>>>
>>>> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
>>>> about them here:
>>>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html
>>>
>>> Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly.
>>> There is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his
>>> hand into the saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop
>>> the saw so fast that it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this
>>> requires more than just the GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he
>>> is able to do both, using a GFI to initiate the process.....
>>
>> sawstop, and it doesn't use a gfi. it senses the capacitance of the
>> human body.
>
> Yes. But the essentiuol thing to remember is thsat the circuitry to
> stop the saw, or pull the breaker to protect the cat, is completely
> se3perate from the circuit that interrupts the power based on too
> much power draw through the main circuit. The breaker is tripped ,
> not by too much po9wer being drawn through it, but by a mechanism
> that senses the presense of the cat or the operators fingers. And
> this requires much less power such as a few milliambls of ground
> current, or the capacitance of the finger that is only close to the
> saw, and not touching it. My iPad senses my fingers without actually
> being touched. It would be entirely possible to build a device that
> interrupted thousands of watts of raw power, based on the close
> proximity of ones fingers. The GFI does this. It uses a completely
> seperate circuit to pull the breaker other than the one that normally
> pulls it. That's why the cat's mouth feels no power at all, and he is
> protected.

You could design an app that shuts down Shasta Dam based on the proximity of
your finger to the surface of your iPad. And, if you did, you would just be
doing, on a very large scale, what the GFI does. It amplifies milliamperes
of ground current into a force that trips a much larger circuit breaker.

John Doe
September 17th 13, 05:56 AM
Perpetual bull****...

--
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border3.nntp.dca.giga news.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 23:17:39 -0500
> From: "Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <l0gefc$1qk$1 dont-email.me> <6pSdndi6JOtY-rDPnZ2dnUVZ5hOdnZ2d giganews.com> <l0l8uh$umo$1 dont-email.me> <l0m0go$m4r$1 dont-email.me> <DYidnaG6sM9BNrPPnZ2dnUVZ5hGdnZ2d giganews.com> <Z76dnf9cUOGHLLPPnZ2dnUVZ5vWdnZ2d giganews.com> <l17rsc$4cj$1 dont-email.me>
> In-Reply-To: <l17rsc$4cj$1 dont-email.me>
> Subject: Re: Upside down packaging tape, no more chewing on electrical cords
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:17:33 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463
> Message-ID: <BN2dnexjJOx-SqrPnZ2dnUVZ5sednZ2d giganews.com>
> Lines: 48
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
> X-Trace: sv3-ajApCo6DTNC9CzRI1Frpc4dWOnxMFj7pYHO/sMZU5K6xQ8YRWZNpoxef3RL6NnGnJZNo7XZhcQbuR0g!QG9ICs w1XV49D/yHnrMut2409KCKkJ5PcBb5SZkDKsZLAg9PfYBV0cx9JENFuxVj xhXyGOeoWzQf
> X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com
> X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
> X-Original-Bytes: 4256
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:11396
>
> chaniarts wrote:
>> On 9/9/2013 10:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>>>> It would be like setting off a firecracker in your cat's mouth.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just one possible scenario. It probably wouldn't be worse.
>>>>> Another possibility is the outlet sourcing up to 15 amps through
>>>>> your cat's/kitten's mouth without tripping the circuit breaker. The
>>>>> electricity would probably burn some flesh and your cat would run
>>>>> away crying. Also possible is a much lesser shock that would
>>>>> hopefully scare it into stopping before it's injured. There are
>>>>> many possibilities depending on how your cat's teeth/tongue/saliva
>>>>> contact the wires. The BOOM scenario is a distinct possibility
>>>>> though, as you can experience by cutting through an appliance
>>>>> wire. As a kid, you might have touched a 9 V battery to your
>>>>> tongue. If you did the same with a 120 V wire prong (like a
>>>>> snake's tongue), it would probably go BOOM and burn a serious hole
>>>>> in your tongue. I wouldn't want to try that experiment.
>>>>
>>>> Shielded cords plus GFI's will prevent that from happening. Read
>>>> about them here:
>>>> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html
>>>
>>> Please remember that some circuit interrupters can act very quickly.
>>> There is a guy who builds them into his table saws. He can put his
>>> hand into the saw blade when it is running, and the break will stop
>>> the saw so fast that it doesn't even break his skin. Of course, this
>>> requires more than just the GFI. He also has to stop the saw. But he
>>> is able to do both, using a GFI to initiate the process.....
>>
>> sawstop, and it doesn't use a gfi. it senses the capacitance of the
>> human body.
>
> Yes. But the essentiuol thing to remember is thsat the circuitry to stop the
> saw, or pull the breaker to protect the cat, is completely se3perate from
> the circuit that interrupts the power based on too much power draw through
> the main circuit. The breaker is tripped , not by too much po9wer being
> drawn through it, but by a mechanism that senses the presense of the cat or
> the operators fingers. And this requires much less power such as a few
> milliambls of ground current, or the capacitance of the finger that is only
> close to the saw, and not touching it. My iPad senses my fingers without
> actually being touched. It would be entirely possible to build a device that
> interrupted thousands of watts of raw power, based on the close proximity of
> ones fingers. The GFI does this. It uses a completely seperate circuit to
> pull the breaker other than the one that normally pulls it. That's why the
> cat's mouth feels no power at all, and he is protected.
>
>
>