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KLopez
October 1st 13, 10:50 PM
Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and chemotherapy?
Did WBC fall then rise?
Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the cat, financial and emotional for you)?

So, our 5 year old spayed female has breast cancer. In July she had a radical mastectomy to remove the right mammary chain. Four weeks ago she had her first chemotherapy injection.
Initially we were going to do a treatment every two-three weeks with blood work in between the early treatments to check for side effects. The problem is that her white blood cell count remains too low for further chemotherapy after four weeks. The oncologist says this is unusual but I should bring her back next week for blood work again. When I started I felt that chemo was the way to go but I don't want to drag her to the vet every week for blood work.

Bill Graham
October 5th 13, 06:42 AM
KLopez wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and
> chemotherapy?
> Did WBC fall then rise?
> Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the
> cat, financial and emotional for you)?

I have been thinking about these questions for a while now, and I have my
answer ready at this time. No. I do not think chemotherapy is a good idea
for a cat or other pet. It's not that I don't love them and want them to
stay with me forever, because aAI do and I hate it when one of my friends
die. But there is a big difference between a pet and a person. A person
knows why he feels sick and is willing to put up with it because he realizes
and expects the reward that he will get in the form of future life. A cat
doesn't know this. He only knows that he is sick and thinks that you, who
are bringing him to the place that is making him sick, are doing so because
he has displeased you in some way and you must be punishing him. Because of
this, I believe that you are giving him the chemotherapy for you and not for
him. He would be happier and better off if you just put him down and left
him alone. In fact, I have known people who made this decision for
themselves, and they knew that they might live a few months longer because
of the chemotherapy. To impose this on a cat, just so you can be with him a
few more months is, to me, cruel. Hard as iut is to do, you should hold him
in your arms, have the vet give him some tranquilizer which puts him to
sleep, and then give him the shot that stops his heart.

I expect others on this forum to disagree with me, but this is my opinion.

T[_4_]
October 6th 13, 05:39 PM
In article >, weg9
@comcast.net says...
>
> KLopez wrote:
> > Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and
> > chemotherapy?
> > Did WBC fall then rise?
> > Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the
> > cat, financial and emotional for you)?
>
> I have been thinking about these questions for a while now, and I have my
> answer ready at this time. No. I do not think chemotherapy is a good idea
> for a cat or other pet. It's not that I don't love them and want them to
> stay with me forever, because aAI do and I hate it when one of my friends
> die. But there is a big difference between a pet and a person. A person
> knows why he feels sick and is willing to put up with it because he realizes
> and expects the reward that he will get in the form of future life. A cat
> doesn't know this. He only knows that he is sick and thinks that you, who
> are bringing him to the place that is making him sick, are doing so because
> he has displeased you in some way and you must be punishing him. Because of
> this, I believe that you are giving him the chemotherapy for you and not for
> him. He would be happier and better off if you just put him down and left
> him alone. In fact, I have known people who made this decision for
> themselves, and they knew that they might live a few months longer because
> of the chemotherapy. To impose this on a cat, just so you can be with him a
> few more months is, to me, cruel. Hard as iut is to do, you should hold him
> in your arms, have the vet give him some tranquilizer which puts him to
> sleep, and then give him the shot that stops his heart.
>
> I expect others on this forum to disagree with me, but this is my opinion.

I sort of feel much the same as you. I don't want to put an animal
through suffering that they cannot understand.

dgk
October 7th 13, 03:35 PM
On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:39:11 -0400, T >
wrote:

>In article >, weg9
says...
>>
>> KLopez wrote:
>> > Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and
>> > chemotherapy?
>> > Did WBC fall then rise?
>> > Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the
>> > cat, financial and emotional for you)?
>>
>> I have been thinking about these questions for a while now, and I have my
>> answer ready at this time. No. I do not think chemotherapy is a good idea
>> for a cat or other pet. It's not that I don't love them and want them to
>> stay with me forever, because aAI do and I hate it when one of my friends
>> die. But there is a big difference between a pet and a person. A person
>> knows why he feels sick and is willing to put up with it because he realizes
>> and expects the reward that he will get in the form of future life. A cat
>> doesn't know this. He only knows that he is sick and thinks that you, who
>> are bringing him to the place that is making him sick, are doing so because
>> he has displeased you in some way and you must be punishing him. Because of
>> this, I believe that you are giving him the chemotherapy for you and not for
>> him. He would be happier and better off if you just put him down and left
>> him alone. In fact, I have known people who made this decision for
>> themselves, and they knew that they might live a few months longer because
>> of the chemotherapy. To impose this on a cat, just so you can be with him a
>> few more months is, to me, cruel. Hard as iut is to do, you should hold him
>> in your arms, have the vet give him some tranquilizer which puts him to
>> sleep, and then give him the shot that stops his heart.
>>
>> I expect others on this forum to disagree with me, but this is my opinion.
>
>I sort of feel much the same as you. I don't want to put an animal
>through suffering that they cannot understand.
>
I'm willing to put them through suffering if they will really be
better and happy afterwards. My cats know that I won't torture them
with no reason, or even with reason. But I put one cat through Chemo
and I don't know if I'd do that again. Supposedly they handle Chemo
better than people do but I'm not aware of any interviews that
confirmed this belief.

I went by what the vet said, that there was a good chance that the cat
would live for a few years and have a good quality of life. It turned
out that he only lived for a few months and probably suffered most of
the time. This is the toughest decision we have to make. Either we
force our cats to suffer or we put them to sleep too soon. No easy
decision here.

MaryL[_2_]
October 7th 13, 05:51 PM
"KLopez" wrote in message
...

Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and
chemotherapy?
Did WBC fall then rise?
Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the cat,
financial and emotional for you)?

So, our 5 year old spayed female has breast cancer. In July she had a
radical mastectomy to remove the right mammary chain. Four weeks ago she had
her first chemotherapy injection.
Initially we were going to do a treatment every two-three weeks with blood
work in between the early treatments to check for side effects. The problem
is that her white blood cell count remains too low for further chemotherapy
after four weeks. The oncologist says this is unusual but I should bring her
back next week for blood work again. When I started I felt that chemo was
the way to go but I don't want to drag her to the vet every week for blood
work.

~~~~~~~
I have not had any experience with chemotherapy, but I had to make a
decision for my wonderful cat Holly just two months ago. The vet found a
large mass that had not been there just a few months earlier, although she
had suddenly been showing evidence of discomfort and rapidly declining
health. Holly had developed a very rapid and aggressive cancer. I made the
decision not to put her through any more tests or painful procedures. She
had already spent a week in the hospital on IVs, and a tech had come to my
home twice a day for awhile to administer fluids. When the cancer was
confirmed, I decided that I could not force her to undergo any more pain
just for my own selfish desire to have her with me. I had a very long
discussion with the vet, and it was clear that she would probably not
benefit. He told me that even a cat 10 years younger could probably not be
helped. So, I made the decision to have her put to sleep and avoid any
further pain. Actually, I avoided any further pain for *her.* The pain for
myself was devastating, but I still consider that procedure to be the final
act of love in situations like that. I sat in the examining room with her
for some time, and then I held her and talked to her when the final
injection was administered. I cried the entire time.

Now, as to your question: I really cannot answer this for you because
circumstances vary. One important difference is that Holly was 18.5 years
old, and your cat is only 5 years old. I think you should have a long and
open conversation with your vet. Ask what the probabilities are that you
could gain more than a few months by continuing with chemo and other
procedures. If possible, contact other vets and ask for a frank opinion
about her case. You have my sincere concern, no matter what you decide. I
really do understand the pain we face when we have to make this type of
decision. The important thing is to do what is best for our beloved pets,
and sometimes (as shown in your message) that is a very difficult thing to
do.

MaryL

IBen Getiner[_3_]
November 19th 13, 10:22 AM
On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:50:45 PM UTC-4, Karece Lopez wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and chemotherapy?
>
> Did WBC fall then rise?
>
> Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the cat, financial and emotional for you)?
>
>
>
> So, our 5 year old spayed female has breast cancer. In July she had a radical mastectomy to remove the right mammary chain. Four weeks ago she had her first chemotherapy injection.
>
> Initially we were going to do a treatment every two-three weeks with blood work in between the early treatments to check for side effects. The problem is that her white blood cell count remains too low for further chemotherapy after four weeks. The oncologist says this is unusual but I should bring her back next week for blood work again. When I started I felt that chemo was the way to go but I don't want to drag her to the vet every week for blood work.

Why don't you just have the poor old thing put to sleep? That's what we should do with people when they end up suffering like that. With kats though, at least you have that option legally...

IBen Getiner

Mack A. Damia
June 17th 15, 04:08 PM
I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
cruel to let your cat roam outside. Now here is a letter, and an
answer from a vet:

Q: Our family just adopted a cat, and my husband and I are debating
whether she should stay indoors all the time or go out during the day.
What are your thoughts?

A: Asking a vet if your cat should be kept inside is like asking a
dentist if you should brush your teeth. My office is currently caring
for eight felines that are sick or injured as a result of their
open-air adventures. Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average,
nine years longer than their outdoor counterparts. Makes sense—have
you ever heard of a pet being hit by a car while snoozing on a
recliner? And traffic is just one hazard. Kitties who roam outside
risk exposure to potentially fatal diseases, including feline
leukemia, feline AIDS, and rabies, as well as less dangerous but still
unpleasant parasites and infections (fleas, ticks, ringworm). Then
there are predators, like coyotes, raccoons, dogs, even humans with
guns.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/pets/30-questions-your-vet-wishes-you-would-ask-about-your-cat/ss-BBkQsA7#image=2

--

Mark Carroll[_2_]
June 17th 15, 04:31 PM
Mack A. Damia > writes:

> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
> cruel to let your cat roam outside.

It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
their natural behaviour."

> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:

I'm guessing an American one?

> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
> than their outdoor counterparts.

Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?

I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
opening it up again.

-- Mark

Mack A. Damia
June 17th 15, 06:33 PM
On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:31:39 +0100, Mark Carroll >
wrote:

>Mack A. Damia > writes:
>
>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>
>It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
>cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
>http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
>has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
>while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
>http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
>says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
>their natural behaviour."
>
>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>
>I'm guessing an American one?
>
>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>
>Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
>right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
>quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
>happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>
>I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
>going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
>simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
>opening it up again.

No, I don't care, M8. I am merely posting it to support my previously
stated views, and I stand by them.

Hey, if you let your cat outside, it's your cat, not mine.

--

Christina Websell
June 18th 15, 07:14 PM
"Mark Carroll" > wrote in message
...
> Mack A. Damia > writes:
>
>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>
> It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
> cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
> http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
> has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
> while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
> http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
> says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
> their natural behaviour."
>
>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>
> I'm guessing an American one?
>
>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>
> Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
> right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
> quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
> happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>
> I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
> going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
> simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
> opening it up again.
>
> -- Mark

I won't do in/out arguments versus USA/UK. I am in the UK and my cat is safe
to go out, but I know it's very different.
The worst thing my cat could encounter is a fox and given that he has all
his claws, the fox might come off second best.

Christina Websell
July 7th 15, 10:22 PM
"Mark Carroll" > wrote in message
...
> Mack A. Damia > writes:
>
>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>
> It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
> cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
> http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
> has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
> while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
> http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
> says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
> their natural behaviour."
>
>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>
> I'm guessing an American one?
>
>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>
> Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
> right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
> quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
> happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>
> I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
> going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
> simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
> opening it up again.
>
> -- Mark

Let's just say that my cat was in/out in UK and lived to be 25 and accept
that it's different in the USA. I refuse to argue about it.

Christina Websell
July 9th 15, 10:45 PM
"Mark Carroll" > wrote in message
...
> Mack A. Damia > writes:
>
>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>
> It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
> cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
> http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
> has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
> while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
> http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
> says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
> their natural behaviour."
>
>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>
> I'm guessing an American one?
>
>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>
> Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
> right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
> quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
> happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>
> I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
> going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
> simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
> opening it up again.
>
> -- Mark

I will not argue about it.

Mack A. Damia
July 9th 15, 10:57 PM
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 22:45:20 +0100, "Christina Websell"
> wrote:

>
>"Mark Carroll" > wrote in message
...
>> Mack A. Damia > writes:
>>
>>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>>
>> It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
>> cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
>> http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
>> has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
>> while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
>> http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
>> says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
>> their natural behaviour."
>>
>>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>>
>> I'm guessing an American one?
>>
>>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>>
>> Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
>> right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
>> quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
>> happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>>
>> I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
>> going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
>> simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
>> opening it up again.
>>
>> -- Mark
>
>I will not argue about it.

You lack the intellectual capability to argue about it. The lights
are on, but there's nobody home.

--

Christina Websell
July 29th 15, 09:37 PM
"Mark Carroll" > wrote in message
...
> Mack A. Damia > writes:
>
>> I think I was beaten down a year or so ago when I said that it was
>> cruel to let your cat roam outside.
>
> It's definitely one of those questions for which there is a massive
> cultural difference between countries. For instance, for the UK,
> http://www.yourcat.co.uk/General-cat-care/should-i-have-indoor-or-outdoor-cats.html
> has, "In the USA, most cat welfare people recommend an indoor-only life,
> while in the UK many would recommend cats have access to the outdoors."
> http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/cat-care-leaflets-2013/EG12_Indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf
> says, "Ideally all cats would be allowed access to outdoors to express
> their natural behaviour."
>
>> Now here is a letter, and an answer from a vet:
>
> I'm guessing an American one?
>
>> Statistics vary, but house cats live, on average, nine years longer
>> than their outdoor counterparts.
>
> Individual circumstances vary greatly though. For instance, do you live
> right next to fast roads, or out on a rural farm? Secondly, there's
> quality of life: even given a shorter lifespan, are those years much
> happier for a cat that may explore and hunt as it pleases?
>
> I don't know if you thought that one American vet's opinion is somehow
> going to definitively end the debate, but their analysis seems so
> simplistic, and expert advice is so diverse, that I suspect you're just
> opening it up again.
>
> --
so let's not.

gamincat[_2_]
November 2nd 15, 06:45 AM
On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 at 4:50:45 PM UTC-5, Karece Lopez wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with low white blood cell counts and chemotherapy?
> Did WBC fall then rise?
> Do you think chemotherapy was worth it (health and happiness of the cat, financial and emotional for you)?
>
> So, our 5 year old spayed female has breast cancer. In July she had a radical mastectomy to remove the right mammary chain. Four weeks ago she had her first chemotherapy injection.
> Initially we were going to do a treatment every two-three weeks with blood work in between the early treatments to check for side effects. The problem is that her white blood cell count remains too low for further chemotherapy after four weeks. The oncologist says this is unusual but I should bring her back next week for blood work again. When I started I felt that chemo was the way to go but I don't want to drag her to the vet every week for blood work.

In my past experience with cats and cancer, you have to see how it goes with the treatments. I had two cats do very well with chemo - very little if any side effects - and their cancers were successfully put into remission. Another cat who was more elderly did not do well and I eventually stopped the treatment and put him down when it seemed like the right time. There are meds they can use to help them tolerate the chemo in some cases such as for nausea or loss of appetite.

Good luck to you and your little one.