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kate
July 22nd 03, 08:33 PM
My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?

Kalyahna
July 23rd 03, 02:04 AM
"kate" > wrote in message
om...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?

I'd suggest checking at your local humane society, or with local rescue
organizations. Breed doesn't always matter; not ever border collie wants to
herd, not every lab loves to play ball. At least at a shelter or in rescue,
there should be people who can tell you what they know about a dog's
personality. Chances are, if you're patient, you can find a dog that's
already lived with cats, possibly one that's already crate-trained.

I do say "dog" instead of puppy intentionally. There are a lot of strays and
even surrendered animals out there that need a good home. So please, don't
simply deny the possibility of an adult. Besides. At least most adults are
completely housebroken. ;P

Kalyahna
July 23rd 03, 02:04 AM
"kate" > wrote in message
om...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?

I'd suggest checking at your local humane society, or with local rescue
organizations. Breed doesn't always matter; not ever border collie wants to
herd, not every lab loves to play ball. At least at a shelter or in rescue,
there should be people who can tell you what they know about a dog's
personality. Chances are, if you're patient, you can find a dog that's
already lived with cats, possibly one that's already crate-trained.

I do say "dog" instead of puppy intentionally. There are a lot of strays and
even surrendered animals out there that need a good home. So please, don't
simply deny the possibility of an adult. Besides. At least most adults are
completely housebroken. ;P

Iain & Deb
July 23rd 03, 12:43 PM
In article
>,
says...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?
>

Your local humane society probably has lots of dogs that
would suit you perfectly well. Personally, I like mixed
breeds (fewer inbreeding health issues). You'll probably be
able to find a dog that has lived with cats before, but in
any case the introduction should be slow and careful; dogs
sometimes kill kittens and cats.

We had a mutt (he was a terrier cross, we never knew his
ancestry) who we took in because someone left him tied to my
sister's porch. At about four months of age, he was easy to
introduce to our cats, and they got along alright (some of
the cats actually liked him!).

By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
experience. I also agree with Megan, that you'd be much
better off taking one of the many kittens available at the
humane society; if you can't get your deposit back, consider
taking a second kitten from the H.S. anyway - I've always
found that cats socialize better when there's more than one
in the house.

Hope this helps,
Deb

--
My basic principle is that you don't make decisions because
they are easy; you don't make them because they are cheap;
you don't make them because they're popular; you make them
because they're right.

Theodore Hesburgh

Iain & Deb
July 23rd 03, 12:43 PM
In article
>,
says...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?
>

Your local humane society probably has lots of dogs that
would suit you perfectly well. Personally, I like mixed
breeds (fewer inbreeding health issues). You'll probably be
able to find a dog that has lived with cats before, but in
any case the introduction should be slow and careful; dogs
sometimes kill kittens and cats.

We had a mutt (he was a terrier cross, we never knew his
ancestry) who we took in because someone left him tied to my
sister's porch. At about four months of age, he was easy to
introduce to our cats, and they got along alright (some of
the cats actually liked him!).

By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
experience. I also agree with Megan, that you'd be much
better off taking one of the many kittens available at the
humane society; if you can't get your deposit back, consider
taking a second kitten from the H.S. anyway - I've always
found that cats socialize better when there's more than one
in the house.

Hope this helps,
Deb

--
My basic principle is that you don't make decisions because
they are easy; you don't make them because they are cheap;
you don't make them because they're popular; you make them
because they're right.

Theodore Hesburgh

Sherry
July 23rd 03, 02:16 PM
>By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
>are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
>experience.

True, and even more true with cats.Just because a cat's breed standards dictate
the cat will act a certain way doesn't mean it will. So what other reason does
anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort of
suggests you're buying a "designer cat". Even worse are people who buy the
"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just don't
get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters. There's no
way a person can't find the perfect moggie at a shelter if they'll just look. I
used to think I wanted a Balinese, and when we seized kittens from a kitten
mill, I got my chance and nabbed one. When I'm feeling very pretentious, I call
hiim a "Balinese." But we get masked cats at the shelter, even kittens, all the
time, and you can't tell the difference!

Sherry

Sherry
July 23rd 03, 02:16 PM
>By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
>are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
>experience.

True, and even more true with cats.Just because a cat's breed standards dictate
the cat will act a certain way doesn't mean it will. So what other reason does
anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort of
suggests you're buying a "designer cat". Even worse are people who buy the
"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just don't
get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters. There's no
way a person can't find the perfect moggie at a shelter if they'll just look. I
used to think I wanted a Balinese, and when we seized kittens from a kitten
mill, I got my chance and nabbed one. When I'm feeling very pretentious, I call
hiim a "Balinese." But we get masked cats at the shelter, even kittens, all the
time, and you can't tell the difference!

Sherry

kaeli
July 23rd 03, 02:33 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?
>

Adopt an adult. Puppies can turn into anything. Adopting from the local
rescue, especially if the animals are fostered in homes, gives you a
very good idea of what the personality is like. You can get some great
dogs, already house trained and already used to cats.

http://www.petfinder.com

--
-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli
July 23rd 03, 02:33 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> My husband and I are getting a little aby kitten, and then we are
> thinking we might want a puppy. The puppy would mostly be my husbands
> dog. We are looking for a dog that has a mellow disposition, medium
> sized to large, and won't bark too much when my husband is gone for
> the day. He works for 5 hours daily, and the dog would have to be with
> the cat during the day. I will be in my office all day, but the dog
> will not be allowed there. Any advice on which kind of dog might be
> best for us? We have a relatively big house with a yrd and we are
> going to crate train and do obediance school. We definitely want a dog
> who can get along with cats, too. Advice on breeds?
>

Adopt an adult. Puppies can turn into anything. Adopting from the local
rescue, especially if the animals are fostered in homes, gives you a
very good idea of what the personality is like. You can get some great
dogs, already house trained and already used to cats.

http://www.petfinder.com

--
-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion
that life is serious.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

July 23rd 03, 05:25 PM
Iain & Deb > wrote:
> Your local humane society probably has lots of dogs that
> would suit you perfectly well. Personally, I like mixed
> breeds (fewer inbreeding health issues). You'll probably be

Depends on what breeder you get them from and if they are actually trying
to get healthy, well balanced dogs along with the standard or just trying
to breed the dog and not caring about what they breed in.

That being said, there are a lot of rescues for purebreds so one can go
there and rescue a dog and still get a breed (here in Seattle we have
Seattle Purebreed Dog rescue that covers a lot of breeds).

I'd get a dog that was fostered somewhere as they'll know the personality
of the dog best vs one that is jsut stuck in a shelter (the best they can
do there is bring it into the cat area and see if he pays any attention to
the cats, I don't really think that would make me feel comfortable enough
that the dog would be ok with cats, but then I have a case where I have to
get a dog excellent with cats as I've got a cat taht is going to be hard
enough to get to be at best ok with the dog).

> By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
> are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
> experience. I also agree with Megan, that you'd be much

Not really. Don't get Beagles, don't get hounds, don't get dogs with those
types of breeds in them, don't get dauschounds (sp?), and already you have
at least gotten away from the dgos that will bark and bark and bark
inherantly (it bugs me people who are getting barking collars that shock
their dogs cause tehy have a beagle in their apartment... did they do any
research before getting that dog?! Or they'd know a beagle is not a good
apartment dog, they bark for the fun of it and they have very loud
barks).

There's even a barkless dog, the Basenji, but I woudln't recomend that dog
to just anyone. Cna be a true troublemaker.

But yes, when talking any breeds, there are exceptions cause in the end
they are all individuals. But yes, breeds do tend to have certain types of
personalities (Pitbulls are highly energetic people dogs, Pugs love
attention, Huskies tend to like to run and dig, Labs *love* treats...I
swear of any dog that's almost taken my hand with them getting treats,
almost all have been labs).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 23rd 03, 05:25 PM
Iain & Deb > wrote:
> Your local humane society probably has lots of dogs that
> would suit you perfectly well. Personally, I like mixed
> breeds (fewer inbreeding health issues). You'll probably be

Depends on what breeder you get them from and if they are actually trying
to get healthy, well balanced dogs along with the standard or just trying
to breed the dog and not caring about what they breed in.

That being said, there are a lot of rescues for purebreds so one can go
there and rescue a dog and still get a breed (here in Seattle we have
Seattle Purebreed Dog rescue that covers a lot of breeds).

I'd get a dog that was fostered somewhere as they'll know the personality
of the dog best vs one that is jsut stuck in a shelter (the best they can
do there is bring it into the cat area and see if he pays any attention to
the cats, I don't really think that would make me feel comfortable enough
that the dog would be ok with cats, but then I have a case where I have to
get a dog excellent with cats as I've got a cat taht is going to be hard
enough to get to be at best ok with the dog).

> By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
> are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
> experience. I also agree with Megan, that you'd be much

Not really. Don't get Beagles, don't get hounds, don't get dogs with those
types of breeds in them, don't get dauschounds (sp?), and already you have
at least gotten away from the dgos that will bark and bark and bark
inherantly (it bugs me people who are getting barking collars that shock
their dogs cause tehy have a beagle in their apartment... did they do any
research before getting that dog?! Or they'd know a beagle is not a good
apartment dog, they bark for the fun of it and they have very loud
barks).

There's even a barkless dog, the Basenji, but I woudln't recomend that dog
to just anyone. Cna be a true troublemaker.

But yes, when talking any breeds, there are exceptions cause in the end
they are all individuals. But yes, breeds do tend to have certain types of
personalities (Pitbulls are highly energetic people dogs, Pugs love
attention, Huskies tend to like to run and dig, Labs *love* treats...I
swear of any dog that's almost taken my hand with them getting treats,
almost all have been labs).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Orchid
July 23rd 03, 10:20 PM
On 23 Jul 2003 13:16:00 GMT, (Sherry ) wrote:

>>By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
>>are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
>>experience.
>
>True, and even more true with cats.Just because a cat's breed standards dictate
>the cat will act a certain way doesn't mean it will.

Temperament is inherited, personality isn't. Breeds that have
been bred for temperament will tend to be like that temperament.
Bengals are a great example of this -- they have been bred for
friendly temperaments from the beginning of the breed. Because of
that, I have never encountered a well-bred Bengal that was 'mean' or
scaredy. They tend to be outgoing, good-natured cats.
As for other ways of acting, some of it is going to be related
to body conformation. Siamese are going to be more active than
Persians because Siamese aren't as heavily built and aren't
brachycephalic. Maine Coons are going to be more active in cold
weather than Abyssinians, and vice versa.

>So what other reason does
>anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort of
>suggests you're buying a "designer cat".

What, like picking out a 'designer cat' at the shelter? I
know someone who loves tuxedo cats, and so she has always had them.
Other people prefer mackeral tabbies, still others like solid black
cats. People will always, all other things being equal, choose a
companion animal that they find aesthetically pleasing. IMO, there's
nothing wrong with that.

>Even worse are people who buy the
>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just don't
>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.

How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
inherited from)."

Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.
People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
is going to be should absolutely rescue.


Orchid
Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Orchid
July 23rd 03, 10:20 PM
On 23 Jul 2003 13:16:00 GMT, (Sherry ) wrote:

>>By the way "mellow disposition" and "won't bark too much"
>>are crap-shoots no matter what kind of dog you get, from my
>>experience.
>
>True, and even more true with cats.Just because a cat's breed standards dictate
>the cat will act a certain way doesn't mean it will.

Temperament is inherited, personality isn't. Breeds that have
been bred for temperament will tend to be like that temperament.
Bengals are a great example of this -- they have been bred for
friendly temperaments from the beginning of the breed. Because of
that, I have never encountered a well-bred Bengal that was 'mean' or
scaredy. They tend to be outgoing, good-natured cats.
As for other ways of acting, some of it is going to be related
to body conformation. Siamese are going to be more active than
Persians because Siamese aren't as heavily built and aren't
brachycephalic. Maine Coons are going to be more active in cold
weather than Abyssinians, and vice versa.

>So what other reason does
>anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort of
>suggests you're buying a "designer cat".

What, like picking out a 'designer cat' at the shelter? I
know someone who loves tuxedo cats, and so she has always had them.
Other people prefer mackeral tabbies, still others like solid black
cats. People will always, all other things being equal, choose a
companion animal that they find aesthetically pleasing. IMO, there's
nothing wrong with that.

>Even worse are people who buy the
>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just don't
>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.

How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
inherited from)."

Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.
People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
is going to be should absolutely rescue.


Orchid
Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Sherry
July 23rd 03, 11:06 PM
>>So what other reason does
>>anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort
>of
>>suggests you're buying a "designer cat".
>
> What, like picking out a 'designer cat' at the shelter? I
>know someone who loves tuxedo cats, and so she has always had them.
>Other people prefer mackeral tabbies, still others like solid black
>cats. People will always, all other things being equal, choose a
>companion animal that they find aesthetically pleasing. IMO, there's
>nothing wrong with that.

Good point. This is true. I stand corrected.
>
>>Even worse are people who buy the
>>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just
>don't
>>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.
>
>How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
>socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
>littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
>like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
>inherited from)."

How about, "There are in excess of one million cats that will die, this year,
simply because no one wants them. Healthy cats. There are also specific breed
rescues full of cats relinquished by people who *thought* they wanted them .
Waiting for homes. Just like the shelter cats.
>
>Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
>temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
>who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.

Purebred cats don't come with a guarantee--in fact, I'd be surprised if
behavioral problems aren't more prevalent in purebreds than moggies, and
congenital health problems too. There are no guarantees with *any* pet.

>People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
>is going to be should absolutely rescue.

I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I could never,
ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know how many
cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.

Sherry
>
>
>Orchid

>
>Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
>Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sherry
July 23rd 03, 11:06 PM
>>So what other reason does
>>anyone buy a cat? Because they like a certain coat pattern/color. That sort
>of
>>suggests you're buying a "designer cat".
>
> What, like picking out a 'designer cat' at the shelter? I
>know someone who loves tuxedo cats, and so she has always had them.
>Other people prefer mackeral tabbies, still others like solid black
>cats. People will always, all other things being equal, choose a
>companion animal that they find aesthetically pleasing. IMO, there's
>nothing wrong with that.

Good point. This is true. I stand corrected.
>
>>Even worse are people who buy the
>>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just
>don't
>>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.
>
>How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
>socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
>littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
>like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
>inherited from)."

How about, "There are in excess of one million cats that will die, this year,
simply because no one wants them. Healthy cats. There are also specific breed
rescues full of cats relinquished by people who *thought* they wanted them .
Waiting for homes. Just like the shelter cats.
>
>Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
>temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
>who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.

Purebred cats don't come with a guarantee--in fact, I'd be surprised if
behavioral problems aren't more prevalent in purebreds than moggies, and
congenital health problems too. There are no guarantees with *any* pet.

>People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
>is going to be should absolutely rescue.

I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I could never,
ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know how many
cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.

Sherry
>
>
>Orchid

>
>Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
>Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
>
>
>
>
>
>

Cheryl
July 23rd 03, 11:37 PM
"Sherry " > wrote in message
...
>
> I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I
could never,
> ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know
how many
> cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.
>
Same here. Though sometimes I look at the most beautiful *looking*
purebred cats and think I'd love to have one, like a Maine Coon. Then
I look at my Shamrock who no one wanted and he's the most loving, the
smartest, most intuitive, friendly, curious, excitable, playful cat
and the best bug catcher in the world, and I remember what I really
love about cats.

Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL

Cheryl
July 23rd 03, 11:37 PM
"Sherry " > wrote in message
...
>
> I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I
could never,
> ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know
how many
> cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.
>
Same here. Though sometimes I look at the most beautiful *looking*
purebred cats and think I'd love to have one, like a Maine Coon. Then
I look at my Shamrock who no one wanted and he's the most loving, the
smartest, most intuitive, friendly, curious, excitable, playful cat
and the best bug catcher in the world, and I remember what I really
love about cats.

Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL

kate
July 23rd 03, 11:46 PM
I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
died 9 months later.
I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
from all of the replies, though.
First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
then became a lap cat).
These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
antagonistic, just my 2 cents...

kate
July 23rd 03, 11:46 PM
I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
died 9 months later.
I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
from all of the replies, though.
First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
then became a lap cat).
These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
antagonistic, just my 2 cents...

Karen Chuplis
July 24th 03, 12:36 AM
in article , Cheryl at wrote
on 7/23/03 5:37 PM:

> "Sherry " > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I
> could never,
>> ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know
> how many
>> cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.
>>
> Same here. Though sometimes I look at the most beautiful *looking*
> purebred cats and think I'd love to have one, like a Maine Coon. Then
> I look at my Shamrock who no one wanted and he's the most loving, the
> smartest, most intuitive, friendly, curious, excitable, playful cat
> and the best bug catcher in the world, and I remember what I really
> love about cats.
>
> Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
> dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
> to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
> morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
> stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
> side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
> since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL
>
>
LOL!!!

Karen Chuplis
July 24th 03, 12:36 AM
in article , Cheryl at wrote
on 7/23/03 5:37 PM:

> "Sherry " > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I
> could never,
>> ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know
> how many
>> cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.
>>
> Same here. Though sometimes I look at the most beautiful *looking*
> purebred cats and think I'd love to have one, like a Maine Coon. Then
> I look at my Shamrock who no one wanted and he's the most loving, the
> smartest, most intuitive, friendly, curious, excitable, playful cat
> and the best bug catcher in the world, and I remember what I really
> love about cats.
>
> Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
> dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
> to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
> morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
> stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
> side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
> since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL
>
>
LOL!!!

Karen Chuplis
July 24th 03, 12:43 AM
in article , kate at
wrote on 7/23/03 5:46 PM:

> I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
> often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
> wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
> I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
> tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
> wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
> was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
> that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
> my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
> shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
> never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
> life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
> anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
> died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
> Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
> died 9 months later.
> I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
> from all of the replies, though.
> First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
> cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
> personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
> and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
> there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
> cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
> I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
> as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
> tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
> interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
> I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
> owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
> family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
> didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
> brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
> completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
> inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
> then became a lap cat).
> These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
> hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
> antagonistic, just my 2 cents...

Well, I have a black cat my brother found as a stray at around 6 months. He
had to move so I took her in. Completely Siamese in behaviour. She has the
elegant ears and face and certainly the voice of a Siamese. She snorts
through her nose in disgust if I chatise her. If she were colored correctly,
you'd think she was a purebred. She's just a moggie with Siamese in her
blood and one like her can be found at a shelter. Or there are also Siamese
rescues. I guess there wouldn't be purebred rescues if people really got
what they thought they were getting. One other point, I can guarantee that
whatever cat you get will not match the cat you remember. They all have too
distinct a personality for that and wanting too much of a duplicate can be
very disappointing. That's just a caution, not to say that is what you are
after but sometimes we do that in our hearts. As for your two brothers, I
can guarantee too, that that is pretty unusual behaviour. You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all different.

karen

Karen Chuplis
July 24th 03, 12:43 AM
in article , kate at
wrote on 7/23/03 5:46 PM:

> I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
> often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
> wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.
> I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
> tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
> wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
> was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
> that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
> my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
> shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
> never got along. The shelter kitty picked on the Siamese his whole
> life although she was super sweet to us humans (I dont think this has
> anything to do with breeds, just the way things came to be). When she
> died of heart problems my Siamese was so much more relaxed and happy.
> Unfortunately later we found out that he also had heart disease and he
> died 9 months later.
> I must actually disagree respectfully with a couple of statements
> from all of the replies, though.
> First, I think breed does matter. I grew up with siamese and mut
> cats, and I have always found that siamese had very distinct
> personality traits that I liked. I always found them to be very deep
> and intelligent. All of my american short hairs were smart, too, but
> there was just a difference I cant explain. I have been looking for
> cats at the shelters and havent found one I quite connect with.
> I do think dogs retain their breed characteristics for the most part
> as well. I think a herding dog will always be restless if not given
> tasks and a lot of excercise. Its in their blood. I am not at all
> interested in appearance, I am looking for personality and that's it.
> I also find that sometimes kittens do not socialize well with their
> owners of another kitten is adopted with it. When I was growing up, my
> family adopted two brothers. They only played among themselves and
> didnt have much interest in bonding with humans. When one of the
> brothers was killed by a neighbors dog, the remaining brother became
> completely wild. He hunted for all of his food, never wanted to come
> inside, and never socialized with humans until he was much older (he
> then became a lap cat).
> These are just my experiences, but I am still really interested in
> hearing all of your opinions, so this is by no means intended to be
> antagonistic, just my 2 cents...

Well, I have a black cat my brother found as a stray at around 6 months. He
had to move so I took her in. Completely Siamese in behaviour. She has the
elegant ears and face and certainly the voice of a Siamese. She snorts
through her nose in disgust if I chatise her. If she were colored correctly,
you'd think she was a purebred. She's just a moggie with Siamese in her
blood and one like her can be found at a shelter. Or there are also Siamese
rescues. I guess there wouldn't be purebred rescues if people really got
what they thought they were getting. One other point, I can guarantee that
whatever cat you get will not match the cat you remember. They all have too
distinct a personality for that and wanting too much of a duplicate can be
very disappointing. That's just a caution, not to say that is what you are
after but sometimes we do that in our hearts. As for your two brothers, I
can guarantee too, that that is pretty unusual behaviour. You've only to
read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out the 3 year
update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or my Sugar
and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are fantastic cats
and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all different.

karen

Cheryl
July 24th 03, 01:12 AM
"Karen Chuplis" > wrote in message
...

You've only to
> read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out
the 3 year
> update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or
my Sugar
> and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are
fantastic cats
> and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all
different.

And Bonnie the feral lil won who only 2 months ago hated my guts and
went ballistic if you touch her or even tried to touch her to now
where she lets me pet her and only paws my hand as if trying to be
threatening but doesn't have the heart for it anymore. :)

Cheryl
July 24th 03, 01:12 AM
"Karen Chuplis" > wrote in message
...

You've only to
> read all the anecdotes over the newsgroups to see that. Check out
the 3 year
> update posted the other day. Or look at MaryL's Holly and Duffy. Or
my Sugar
> and Grant that I got off a farm that are siblings. They are
fantastic cats
> and complete love bugs dependent on me for loving. They are all
different.

And Bonnie the feral lil won who only 2 months ago hated my guts and
went ballistic if you touch her or even tried to touch her to now
where she lets me pet her and only paws my hand as if trying to be
threatening but doesn't have the heart for it anymore. :)

-L.
July 24th 03, 01:29 AM
(kate) wrote in message >...
> I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
> often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
> wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.

I used to think that breed wasn't important (for mixed breeds) - that
mixed breeds were just that - and their parentage had little to do
with their behavior. Then I rescued a Border Collie mix, and adopted
a Basenji mix (hunting dog). All I can say is that you can take the
dog out of the hunt (or herd) but never can you take the hunt (or
herd) out of the dog.

That being said, the best dogs IMO, are mixes, and if the mix is truly
mixed up (unidentifiable), all the better, IMO. Also, what is labeled
as a certain mix often times isn't. I have seen numerous "Pit Bull
mixes" who were actually boxer (or dane) mixes when they grew up, and
my own Basenji mix was labeled as a Boxer mix, although she is now 27
lbs and clearly a Basenji mix. You just can't rely on the labels -
unless the rescue group knows for sure that the parent was a
registered purebred.

The one lesson I have learned in my Dog Mommy-hood is if you get two
dogs, do not get two bitches unless you are prepared to deal with a
lot of strong pack behavior. I will never make that mistake again.
Could be my dogs, but the counselor at the HS warned me of this, and I
didn't heed the warning. I just was too blinded by the Basenji
wrinkly head, huge ears and tail going 1000 mph:

http://groups.msn.com/idontmindsCompanionAnimalConnection/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7

Who says pound dogs aren't cute?


> I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
> tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
> wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
> was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
> that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
> my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
> shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
> never got along.

<snipola>

General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
which all got along. Go figure.

My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.

Best of luck,

-L.

-L.
July 24th 03, 01:29 AM
(kate) wrote in message >...
> I really appreciate the replies! We actually do check petfinder quite
> often, and are interested in getting a mixed breed, but I just
> wondered if there is any breed I should search for as part of the mix.

I used to think that breed wasn't important (for mixed breeds) - that
mixed breeds were just that - and their parentage had little to do
with their behavior. Then I rescued a Border Collie mix, and adopted
a Basenji mix (hunting dog). All I can say is that you can take the
dog out of the hunt (or herd) but never can you take the hunt (or
herd) out of the dog.

That being said, the best dogs IMO, are mixes, and if the mix is truly
mixed up (unidentifiable), all the better, IMO. Also, what is labeled
as a certain mix often times isn't. I have seen numerous "Pit Bull
mixes" who were actually boxer (or dane) mixes when they grew up, and
my own Basenji mix was labeled as a Boxer mix, although she is now 27
lbs and clearly a Basenji mix. You just can't rely on the labels -
unless the rescue group knows for sure that the parent was a
registered purebred.

The one lesson I have learned in my Dog Mommy-hood is if you get two
dogs, do not get two bitches unless you are prepared to deal with a
lot of strong pack behavior. I will never make that mistake again.
Could be my dogs, but the counselor at the HS warned me of this, and I
didn't heed the warning. I just was too blinded by the Basenji
wrinkly head, huge ears and tail going 1000 mph:

http://groups.msn.com/idontmindsCompanionAnimalConnection/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7

Who says pound dogs aren't cute?


> I also check the shelters and petfinder quite often for cats. I have
> tried to adopt one from a shelter but the woman told me that she
> wasnted to put the cat in a household with another cat. I thought this
> was stupid since she had already adopted its siblings out and she said
> that the cat missed its siblings-duh. I also work at home all day so
> my cats dont ever get lonely. Both of my previous cats (one from a
> shelter , the other a siamese) died last year at age 13 and 14. They
> never got along.

<snipola>

General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
which all got along. Go figure.

My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.

Best of luck,

-L.

Sherry
July 24th 03, 02:34 AM
>Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
>dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
>to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
>morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
>stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
>side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
>since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL
>
LOL! Frankie is a little more subtle. He gets his nose about 2 inches from my
face. Then.. tap, tap taps his paw on my nose. If I don't respond, it's tap,
tap with the claws out. If I still don't, he tries to stick his nose up my
nostril. That usually gets me.

Sherry

Sherry
July 24th 03, 02:34 AM
>Gotta throw this in because it cracks me up about him. I don't leave
>dry food out at night anymore because of Shadow's problems and trying
>to convert them to all canned food. Shamrock now wakes me up in the
>morning -hungry- by plopping down on my face. How he does this is to
>stand on my pillow and just.. well, plop.. HARD on my face with his
>side and the look at me as if he's saying, "oh, you're awake? Well
>since you are, can you FEED ME now?" LOL
>
LOL! Frankie is a little more subtle. He gets his nose about 2 inches from my
face. Then.. tap, tap taps his paw on my nose. If I don't respond, it's tap,
tap with the claws out. If I still don't, he tries to stick his nose up my
nostril. That usually gets me.

Sherry

Orchid
July 24th 03, 08:16 PM
On 23 Jul 2003 22:06:54 GMT, (Sherry ) wrote:

*grin* Hi Sherry! I see that we are, once again, staring at
each other from either sides of the purebred cat issue. It would seem
to be our destiny to meet this way -- me defending purebred kitties
and you reveiling them. ;)
BTW -- Temujin and Kefka just recently got their first
Championship! We're going for Double next. :D How's your grandcat
doing in his show career?

>>>Even worse are people who buy the
>>>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>>>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just
>>don't
>>>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>>>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.
>>
>>How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
>>socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
>>littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
>>like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
>>inherited from)."
>
>How about, "There are in excess of one million cats that will die, this year,
>simply because no one wants them. Healthy cats. There are also specific breed
>rescues full of cats relinquished by people who *thought* they wanted them .
>Waiting for homes. Just like the shelter cats.

Cite please for the 1 million number, and the date of the
study. Also, I'd like to see the breakdown of healthy, socialised,
human-friendly cats vs. ferals vs. sick or injured, please. In my
experience with the huge euthanisation numbers they tend to lump all
cats into one, regardless of adopability.
As for breed rescue, one needs to look at whether the rescue
takes in mixes as well (as Siamese Rescue does) or if it truly it a
breed-specific rescue. Breed Rescue is a wonderful thing. (I
volunteer with the largest, best organised Lab Rescue in the nation
and also with Bengal Rescue) However, true breed-specific rescues do
not always have cats available or suitable. I looked into rescuing
when I got my Bengal boys, and we had a total of 13 cats in rescue
across the the US and Canada. Of those 13, 8 could not be shipped.
Of the five left, 3 were females (I vastly prefer boys), and neither
of the two available males could go into a multicat home (I very much
wanted two cats). So that put the kibosh on rescue for my cats.
Approximately 3.6% of the entire cat population is purebred
(http://www.fanciers.com/npa/sdanalysis.html). Purebred cats are much
more likely to be indoor-only cats, and less likely to be randomly
bred. Roaming, free breeding cats, on the other hand, make up well
over a third of the known cat population. It is clear where the
problem lies. Cities are not being overrun by herds of wandering
Himalayan and Devon Rex cats.

>>Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
>>temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
>>who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.
>
>Purebred cats don't come with a guarantee--in fact, I'd be surprised if
>behavioral problems aren't more prevalent in purebreds than moggies, and
>congenital health problems too. There are no guarantees with *any* pet.

Well, that depends on the guarantee. For example, any cat
that comes from a responsible breeder (like mine), not only comes with
a congenital health guarantee (generally five years or so on paper),
but it also comes with the guarantee that should you have to give up
your cat for *any reason* it MUST go back to the breeder and not into
a shelter. Responsible breeders take care of the animals they have
brought into the world.
As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
behavioural problems.

>>People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
>>is going to be should absolutely rescue.
>
>I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I could never,
>ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know how many
>cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.

I also love my cats and cats as a species. I have fostered
for rescue groups before, and pouring love, attention, training, and
time into cats who most certainly did *not* love me back took its toll
on me. I still volunteer with rescues and the local Humane Society,
but when I come home I have my lovely, happy, purring lovekitties to
heal my soul.

And that's what it's all about.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Orchid
July 24th 03, 08:16 PM
On 23 Jul 2003 22:06:54 GMT, (Sherry ) wrote:

*grin* Hi Sherry! I see that we are, once again, staring at
each other from either sides of the purebred cat issue. It would seem
to be our destiny to meet this way -- me defending purebred kitties
and you reveiling them. ;)
BTW -- Temujin and Kefka just recently got their first
Championship! We're going for Double next. :D How's your grandcat
doing in his show career?

>>>Even worse are people who buy the
>>>"trend cats" -- thanks to the movies, persians and siamese, or spynx,
>>>especially. Honestly, Megan's post, or Deb's, is not condemning. We just
>>don't
>>>get it. Why, or how, anyone could actually pay money, even get on a waiting
>>>list, when so many, many healthy kittens die every day at shelters.
>>
>>How about "Well, I want a healthy, well-adjusted, properly
>>socialised kitten that has been allowed to stay with its mom and
>>littermates for the full 12-16 weeks they should." How about "I'd
>>like to know the temperament of the father (whom temperament is
>>inherited from)."
>
>How about, "There are in excess of one million cats that will die, this year,
>simply because no one wants them. Healthy cats. There are also specific breed
>rescues full of cats relinquished by people who *thought* they wanted them .
>Waiting for homes. Just like the shelter cats.

Cite please for the 1 million number, and the date of the
study. Also, I'd like to see the breakdown of healthy, socialised,
human-friendly cats vs. ferals vs. sick or injured, please. In my
experience with the huge euthanisation numbers they tend to lump all
cats into one, regardless of adopability.
As for breed rescue, one needs to look at whether the rescue
takes in mixes as well (as Siamese Rescue does) or if it truly it a
breed-specific rescue. Breed Rescue is a wonderful thing. (I
volunteer with the largest, best organised Lab Rescue in the nation
and also with Bengal Rescue) However, true breed-specific rescues do
not always have cats available or suitable. I looked into rescuing
when I got my Bengal boys, and we had a total of 13 cats in rescue
across the the US and Canada. Of those 13, 8 could not be shipped.
Of the five left, 3 were females (I vastly prefer boys), and neither
of the two available males could go into a multicat home (I very much
wanted two cats). So that put the kibosh on rescue for my cats.
Approximately 3.6% of the entire cat population is purebred
(http://www.fanciers.com/npa/sdanalysis.html). Purebred cats are much
more likely to be indoor-only cats, and less likely to be randomly
bred. Roaming, free breeding cats, on the other hand, make up well
over a third of the known cat population. It is clear where the
problem lies. Cities are not being overrun by herds of wandering
Himalayan and Devon Rex cats.

>>Rescue cats aren't right for everyone. Some people want predictable
>>temperaments, activity levels, grooming requirements, etc. For those
>>who want specific things out of their cats, purebred is the way to go.
>
>Purebred cats don't come with a guarantee--in fact, I'd be surprised if
>behavioral problems aren't more prevalent in purebreds than moggies, and
>congenital health problems too. There are no guarantees with *any* pet.

Well, that depends on the guarantee. For example, any cat
that comes from a responsible breeder (like mine), not only comes with
a congenital health guarantee (generally five years or so on paper),
but it also comes with the guarantee that should you have to give up
your cat for *any reason* it MUST go back to the breeder and not into
a shelter. Responsible breeders take care of the animals they have
brought into the world.
As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
behavioural problems.

>>People who enjoy the challenge and surprise of discovering what a cat
>>is going to be should absolutely rescue.
>
>I love my cats, but more importantlly, I love cats as a species. I could never,
>ever, with a good conscience, buy a cat from a breeder when I know how many
>cats die in this country alone. Maybe others can. But I couldn't.

I also love my cats and cats as a species. I have fostered
for rescue groups before, and pouring love, attention, training, and
time into cats who most certainly did *not* love me back took its toll
on me. I still volunteer with rescues and the local Humane Society,
but when I come home I have my lovely, happy, purring lovekitties to
heal my soul.

And that's what it's all about.



Orchid

Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Yngver
July 24th 03, 09:16 PM
(Orchid) wrote:

>As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
>respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
>fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
>behavioural problems.
>
I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a kitten is
properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are too
often taken from their mothers at far too young an age, leaving the new owner
to try to train the kitten. And quite often the new owner has no idea how to do
so.

Yngver
July 24th 03, 09:16 PM
(Orchid) wrote:

>As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
>respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
>fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
>behavioural problems.
>
I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a kitten is
properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are too
often taken from their mothers at far too young an age, leaving the new owner
to try to train the kitten. And quite often the new owner has no idea how to do
so.

July 24th 03, 09:39 PM
Yngver > wrote:
> I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a kitten is
> properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
> clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are too

Heh, well I'm not sure I got mine from a good breeder (hindsight I should
have gone with the one that was cautioning me to wait when I contaccted
her still in college), but my cat was most definitely litter box trained
and scratching post trained when I got her (she's very good about the
scratching post and if she ever goes outside the box I know something's
wrong).

On the other hand, on the new owner thing, I kinda wish people would do
some research before getting an animal, enough to at least have an idea
on how to start the cat on the litterbox and stuff.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 24th 03, 09:39 PM
Yngver > wrote:
> I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a kitten is
> properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
> clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are too

Heh, well I'm not sure I got mine from a good breeder (hindsight I should
have gone with the one that was cautioning me to wait when I contaccted
her still in college), but my cat was most definitely litter box trained
and scratching post trained when I got her (she's very good about the
scratching post and if she ever goes outside the box I know something's
wrong).

On the other hand, on the new owner thing, I kinda wish people would do
some research before getting an animal, enough to at least have an idea
on how to start the cat on the litterbox and stuff.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Sherry
July 24th 03, 11:11 PM
>*grin* Hi Sherry! I see that we are, once again, staring at
>each other from either sides of the purebred cat issue. It would seem
>to be our destiny to meet this way -- me defending purebred kitties
>and you reveiling them. ;)

<grin back> Hi Orchid! The grandcat didn't fare so well in his show career. He
started out fabulously, raking in best of breed even. The day he got his
premiere, he decided he didn't like shows, sat with his back to the crowd in
every ring, and hissed at the judges. So he was promptly retired. Daughter said
she wasn't going to show him if he didn't like it.
See, I'm not *all* bad. I even went to the cat shows. I even kept my mouth
shut. The things we do for our grand-cats. Sigh. :)

Sherry

Sherry
July 24th 03, 11:11 PM
>*grin* Hi Sherry! I see that we are, once again, staring at
>each other from either sides of the purebred cat issue. It would seem
>to be our destiny to meet this way -- me defending purebred kitties
>and you reveiling them. ;)

<grin back> Hi Orchid! The grandcat didn't fare so well in his show career. He
started out fabulously, raking in best of breed even. The day he got his
premiere, he decided he didn't like shows, sat with his back to the crowd in
every ring, and hissed at the judges. So he was promptly retired. Daughter said
she wasn't going to show him if he didn't like it.
See, I'm not *all* bad. I even went to the cat shows. I even kept my mouth
shut. The things we do for our grand-cats. Sigh. :)

Sherry

kate
July 25th 03, 03:12 AM
Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
they dont bark and they are quite clean.
Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...
I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
with the other cat over me.
Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

kate
July 25th 03, 03:12 AM
Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
they dont bark and they are quite clean.
Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...
I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
with the other cat over me.
Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

kate
July 25th 03, 03:13 AM
Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
they dont bark and they are quite clean.
Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...
I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
with the other cat over me.
Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

kate
July 25th 03, 03:13 AM
Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
they dont bark and they are quite clean.
Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...
I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
with the other cat over me.
Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

July 25th 03, 07:01 AM
-L. > wrote:
> The problem with the Siamese breed (my first cat as a kid was a
> Siamese so I have a very fond likeness for the breed) is that they
> suffer from 19 known genetic maladies. That's NINETEEN. That's more


And yet they have longer lifespans than most every other cat.Read up on
the breed and eveyrthing talking about it talks about how these cats can
live 17-20 years easily. What I find really amusing is that when they were
first introduced to America, one of the problems was that they did die
young. Some fo the stuff bred in is more inherant to the modern siamese
(BLECH) because of that super narrow nose. And yes, in the case of the
modern siamese, I fully agree with you taht breeders have ruined the
breed. On the other hand, ther is a movement for the classics and
traditionals (Isis is a classic). Also, there is a movement for
traditional Persions that don't have those super squished noses (some so
squished they have caused breathing problems).

Personaly, I think the modern "siamese" and modern "persian" need to get
their own breed and leave the breed to the true ones, the tradional
siamese and persian.


> highly pedigreed that they aren't a financial possibility for most
> people. The worst thing you can do is buy a Siamese from a back yard
> breeder (or one that is a casual breeder) - you are likely to end up
> with a cat with problems and you reward people for continuing to ruin
> the breed.

Yep. Isis may not have health problems but she is a very neurotic little
kitty. On the other hand, I apperntly didn't help that breeder breed as
she no longer is around (or at least her webpage disappeared). And I could
be being unfair. My biggest basis for this is the fact she called Isis a
little shy, was willing to ship such a timid cat to some one who couldn't
pick her up, and was not concerned when I emailed her about not recieving
the contract that said I was to keep her indoors and not declaw her (that
was the icing on the cake, but to be fair, it si email and she might not
have recieved it).

> I suspect that the lack of afffection/interest in humans was much more
> a result of having access to the outdoors. Cats who spend a lot of
> time outside generally are less attached to humans, IME. It is almost
> like the feral side beckons them to stay feral.

Oh, I disagree completely here. I grew up with three outdoor/indoor cats
and all of them lvoed people/attention. Ok, one was very aloof but she
loved me and was attached to me (towards the end she'd only come inside
for me, but she also had mellowed out and let more people pet her). that
was more a function of her being a one-person cat though than being
un-affectionate. And one started out being aloof from humans but wtih
enough attention from me (I found she liked getting pet when she napped)
she became an attention addict (especially when she got older and owuld
constantly meow for attention).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 25th 03, 07:01 AM
-L. > wrote:
> The problem with the Siamese breed (my first cat as a kid was a
> Siamese so I have a very fond likeness for the breed) is that they
> suffer from 19 known genetic maladies. That's NINETEEN. That's more


And yet they have longer lifespans than most every other cat.Read up on
the breed and eveyrthing talking about it talks about how these cats can
live 17-20 years easily. What I find really amusing is that when they were
first introduced to America, one of the problems was that they did die
young. Some fo the stuff bred in is more inherant to the modern siamese
(BLECH) because of that super narrow nose. And yes, in the case of the
modern siamese, I fully agree with you taht breeders have ruined the
breed. On the other hand, ther is a movement for the classics and
traditionals (Isis is a classic). Also, there is a movement for
traditional Persions that don't have those super squished noses (some so
squished they have caused breathing problems).

Personaly, I think the modern "siamese" and modern "persian" need to get
their own breed and leave the breed to the true ones, the tradional
siamese and persian.


> highly pedigreed that they aren't a financial possibility for most
> people. The worst thing you can do is buy a Siamese from a back yard
> breeder (or one that is a casual breeder) - you are likely to end up
> with a cat with problems and you reward people for continuing to ruin
> the breed.

Yep. Isis may not have health problems but she is a very neurotic little
kitty. On the other hand, I apperntly didn't help that breeder breed as
she no longer is around (or at least her webpage disappeared). And I could
be being unfair. My biggest basis for this is the fact she called Isis a
little shy, was willing to ship such a timid cat to some one who couldn't
pick her up, and was not concerned when I emailed her about not recieving
the contract that said I was to keep her indoors and not declaw her (that
was the icing on the cake, but to be fair, it si email and she might not
have recieved it).

> I suspect that the lack of afffection/interest in humans was much more
> a result of having access to the outdoors. Cats who spend a lot of
> time outside generally are less attached to humans, IME. It is almost
> like the feral side beckons them to stay feral.

Oh, I disagree completely here. I grew up with three outdoor/indoor cats
and all of them lvoed people/attention. Ok, one was very aloof but she
loved me and was attached to me (towards the end she'd only come inside
for me, but she also had mellowed out and let more people pet her). that
was more a function of her being a one-person cat though than being
un-affectionate. And one started out being aloof from humans but wtih
enough attention from me (I found she liked getting pet when she napped)
she became an attention addict (especially when she got older and owuld
constantly meow for attention).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 25th 03, 07:02 AM
kate > wrote:
> Hi everyone!
> Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
> That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
> they dont bark and they are quite clean.

I'd research them. From reading posts on the dog breeds newsgroup from
basenji lovers, they are really not for everyone. And just recently I was
talking to some one who used to breed them and she said they are real
trouble especially in their first two years (but she said they calmed down
after that). I know my cousin's basenji was very destructive and had
housetraining problems for a while.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 25th 03, 07:02 AM
kate > wrote:
> Hi everyone!
> Thanks so much for all of this advice. I am really grateful for it!
> That basenji mix is so cute!!! That was a breed we were considering bc
> they dont bark and they are quite clean.

I'd research them. From reading posts on the dog breeds newsgroup from
basenji lovers, they are really not for everyone. And just recently I was
talking to some one who used to breed them and she said they are real
trouble especially in their first two years (but she said they calmed down
after that). I know my cousin's basenji was very destructive and had
housetraining problems for a while.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

*~*SooZy*~*
July 25th 03, 10:16 AM
"Yngver" > wrote in message
...
> (Orchid) wrote:
>
> >As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
> >respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
> >fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
> >behavioural problems.
> >
> I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a
kitten is
> properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
> clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are
too
> often taken from their mothers at far too young an age, leaving the new
owner
> to try to train the kitten. And quite often the new owner has no idea how
to do
> so.

I have a pure bred Ragdoll, that comes from a very well know breeder, he was
litter trained from the word go, used to his nails being clipped, being
groomed, from the moment he walked in here, he acted like he had known the
place.. never shown any sign of nervousness.... but then again my moggie
Kitten was exactly the same. I really think it comes down to the what's
happened to them from birth....

I have had rescue cats before too, and always found them very nervous, not
litter trained etc I suppose that's why the owners gave up on them in the
first place :-(
I have only had one kitten from a rescue, most people will take a kitten but
not so many take on an older cat from rescue.


--
Luv'n'Stuff
*~*SooZy*~*
http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk

*~*SooZy*~*
July 25th 03, 10:16 AM
"Yngver" > wrote in message
...
> (Orchid) wrote:
>
> >As for behavioural problems, I am going to have to
> >respectfully disagree with you. Of the cats I have known, owned, and
> >fostered, the moggies have had much more extreme emotional and
> >behavioural problems.
> >
> I agree with you here. A responsible breeder has already made sure a
kitten is
> properly litterbox trained, is accustomed to grooming and having its claws
> clipped, and is properly socialized. Unfortunately random bred kittens are
too
> often taken from their mothers at far too young an age, leaving the new
owner
> to try to train the kitten. And quite often the new owner has no idea how
to do
> so.

I have a pure bred Ragdoll, that comes from a very well know breeder, he was
litter trained from the word go, used to his nails being clipped, being
groomed, from the moment he walked in here, he acted like he had known the
place.. never shown any sign of nervousness.... but then again my moggie
Kitten was exactly the same. I really think it comes down to the what's
happened to them from birth....

I have had rescue cats before too, and always found them very nervous, not
litter trained etc I suppose that's why the owners gave up on them in the
first place :-(
I have only had one kitten from a rescue, most people will take a kitten but
not so many take on an older cat from rescue.


--
Luv'n'Stuff
*~*SooZy*~*
http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk

July 25th 03, 03:06 PM
Sherry > wrote:
> oddities about some of the Siamese we get at the shelter. (although some are
> mixes, some are possibly just masked cats and not Siamese at all).
> Anyway. I see lots of crossed eyes. Lots of kinked tails. Many of them have
> this weird "overbite" where their fangs hang down on the outside of their lower

NOt sure about the overbite, but the tails and eyes have eben something
the breed had at least since it was first shipped over to the US and
breeders have actually improved on that (as well as significantly
increased the breed's lifespan... went from deing really young to living
pretty old).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

July 25th 03, 03:06 PM
Sherry > wrote:
> oddities about some of the Siamese we get at the shelter. (although some are
> mixes, some are possibly just masked cats and not Siamese at all).
> Anyway. I see lots of crossed eyes. Lots of kinked tails. Many of them have
> this weird "overbite" where their fangs hang down on the outside of their lower

NOt sure about the overbite, but the tails and eyes have eben something
the breed had at least since it was first shipped over to the US and
breeders have actually improved on that (as well as significantly
increased the breed's lifespan... went from deing really young to living
pretty old).

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Yngver
July 25th 03, 11:01 PM
wrote:

>NOt sure about the overbite, but the tails and eyes have eben something
>the breed had at least since it was first shipped over to the US and
>breeders have actually improved on that (as well as significantly
>increased the breed's lifespan... went from deing really young to living
>pretty old).
>
What I read is that crossed eyes were once considered a sign of royal lineage,
so they were valued. I'd thought the crossed eyes were being bred out now. As
for kinked tails, they may be more common in Siamese and Siamese mixes, but
I've seen cats without any Siamese heritage with kinked tails. I don't know
whether the kinked tails were also a sign of royalty.

Yngver
July 25th 03, 11:01 PM
wrote:

>NOt sure about the overbite, but the tails and eyes have eben something
>the breed had at least since it was first shipped over to the US and
>breeders have actually improved on that (as well as significantly
>increased the breed's lifespan... went from deing really young to living
>pretty old).
>
What I read is that crossed eyes were once considered a sign of royal lineage,
so they were valued. I'd thought the crossed eyes were being bred out now. As
for kinked tails, they may be more common in Siamese and Siamese mixes, but
I've seen cats without any Siamese heritage with kinked tails. I don't know
whether the kinked tails were also a sign of royalty.

Yngver
July 25th 03, 11:10 PM
*SooZy*~*" wrote:

>I have a pure bred Ragdoll, that comes from a very well know breeder, he was
>litter trained from the word go, used to his nails being clipped, being
>groomed, from the moment he walked in here, he acted like he had known the
>place.. never shown any sign of nervousness.... but then again my moggie
>Kitten was exactly the same. I really think it comes down to the what's
>happened to them from birth....
>
Yes, I think that's true. But I think, as mentioned, part of the problem is
that breeders generally won't let a kitten go until it's plenty old enough to
be well socialized and trained, but you see people giving away mixed breed
kittens as young as 6 weeks (maybe even younger). Of course, sometimes it's not
feasible to keep the kittens until they are 12-16 weeks and many people don't
know how to properly train them anyway, but kittens that young do miss out on
some important lessons their littermates and mothers would have taught them.

Yngver
July 25th 03, 11:10 PM
*SooZy*~*" wrote:

>I have a pure bred Ragdoll, that comes from a very well know breeder, he was
>litter trained from the word go, used to his nails being clipped, being
>groomed, from the moment he walked in here, he acted like he had known the
>place.. never shown any sign of nervousness.... but then again my moggie
>Kitten was exactly the same. I really think it comes down to the what's
>happened to them from birth....
>
Yes, I think that's true. But I think, as mentioned, part of the problem is
that breeders generally won't let a kitten go until it's plenty old enough to
be well socialized and trained, but you see people giving away mixed breed
kittens as young as 6 weeks (maybe even younger). Of course, sometimes it's not
feasible to keep the kittens until they are 12-16 weeks and many people don't
know how to properly train them anyway, but kittens that young do miss out on
some important lessons their littermates and mothers would have taught them.

-L.
July 26th 03, 02:48 AM
Arjun Ray > wrote in message >...
> In >,
> (-L.) wrote:
>
> | General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
> | better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
> | male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
> | tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
> | which all got along. Go figure.
>
> I now have four - three boys and then a girl - and they all get along
> pretty well (links below). There have been others - a 6 mo feral female
> I started to socialize and then adopted out, and a pair of kittens I
> fostered for 3 months - and with each new combination in the apartment,
> the overall dynamics changed.
>
> When Marie came to stay (she was left temporarily by an indigent friend
> who has now taken a job out of the country) the mellowness factor went
> up appreciably. Even the two adults (full grown toms when I trapped
> each of them) who just tolerated each other, became downright friendly!
>
> | My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
> | kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
> | I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.
>
> Kittens, like all children, are more flexible and accepting. My foster
> kittens were a brother-sister pair, and they got along very well with
> each other. I had trapped them separately (the girl held out for an
> incredible five days), and took the trouble to reintroduce them rather
> than putting them together at once just because they were littermates
> (they were about 11 weeks old at the time, and hadn't seen each other
> for close to two weeks.)


Great pics of your cats! I love the pile of cats on the windowsill...

-L.

-L.
July 26th 03, 02:48 AM
Arjun Ray > wrote in message >...
> In >,
> (-L.) wrote:
>
> | General rule of thumb is two cats are better than one, and three
> | better than two, but sometimes the two just never get along. I have a
> | male and female adopted 7 months apart (female first) and they
> | tolerate each other, at best. OTOH, my Mom always had oodles of cats,
> | which all got along. Go figure.
>
> I now have four - three boys and then a girl - and they all get along
> pretty well (links below). There have been others - a 6 mo feral female
> I started to socialize and then adopted out, and a pair of kittens I
> fostered for 3 months - and with each new combination in the apartment,
> the overall dynamics changed.
>
> When Marie came to stay (she was left temporarily by an indigent friend
> who has now taken a job out of the country) the mellowness factor went
> up appreciably. Even the two adults (full grown toms when I trapped
> each of them) who just tolerated each other, became downright friendly!
>
> | My general experience is that two males get along better if adopted as
> | kittens - not necessarily at the same time. The majority of the mixes
> | I have seen that didn't work out were male/female pairs.
>
> Kittens, like all children, are more flexible and accepting. My foster
> kittens were a brother-sister pair, and they got along very well with
> each other. I had trapped them separately (the girl held out for an
> incredible five days), and took the trouble to reintroduce them rather
> than putting them together at once just because they were littermates
> (they were about 11 weeks old at the time, and hadn't seen each other
> for close to two weeks.)


Great pics of your cats! I love the pile of cats on the windowsill...

-L.

Kalyahna
July 29th 03, 01:33 AM
"kate" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi everyone!
> Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
> adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
> volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
> the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...

The likelihood of the director doing an adoption counselling is pretty low.
There's enough to do every day to keep a director of any humane society far
too busy to show animals to potential adopters. Of course, turnover at
shelters is quite high, so you might have had a run-in with someone on their
way out. -Especially- if it came to the office manager or director's
attention that the person was denying perfectly good homes for the sake of
her pride.

> I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
> cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
> cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
> areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
> with the other cat over me.
> Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

My two owned cats are both girls, mother and daughter, and would be
considered a bonded pair. They were barn cats who were surrendered. Now
they're inside cats. The mom, Pandora, sleeps on my pillow and monkeys on my
shoulder all over the apartment. The daughter, Persephone, burrows under the
blankets with me, and otherwise sleeps on my lap. A cat won't bond with you
if it doesn't have any interest in human affection. If you go to a local
shelter, try to get a hold of the people that work with the animals most
closely. Let them know what you're looking for in a cat. If you want a
mellow lap cat, or a playful, more distant, companion... if you want two,
some places have social-cat rooms, or have pairs on display. Just let them
know that you're having a baby soon, and someone who works with the cats
could probably tell you pretty quick which cats would work and which ones
absolutely would not.

Kalyahna
July 29th 03, 01:33 AM
"kate" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi everyone!
> Also good advice about going over the volunteer's head for an
> adoption. I think she may have been the director, though. There was a
> volunteer I spoke with first and she look as baffled as I was about
> the refusal. Some things just aint meant to be...

The likelihood of the director doing an adoption counselling is pretty low.
There's enough to do every day to keep a director of any humane society far
too busy to show animals to potential adopters. Of course, turnover at
shelters is quite high, so you might have had a run-in with someone on their
way out. -Especially- if it came to the office manager or director's
attention that the person was denying perfectly good homes for the sake of
her pride.

> I do keep looking at shelters, though. we may end up getting an older
> cat after the aby is settled. I kow many think its better to get the
> cats at the same time, and that may be true, but I would rather have
> areally strong bond with my kitty first, instead of having her bond
> with the other cat over me.
> Is a female/female mix with cats any better than a male/female?

My two owned cats are both girls, mother and daughter, and would be
considered a bonded pair. They were barn cats who were surrendered. Now
they're inside cats. The mom, Pandora, sleeps on my pillow and monkeys on my
shoulder all over the apartment. The daughter, Persephone, burrows under the
blankets with me, and otherwise sleeps on my lap. A cat won't bond with you
if it doesn't have any interest in human affection. If you go to a local
shelter, try to get a hold of the people that work with the animals most
closely. Let them know what you're looking for in a cat. If you want a
mellow lap cat, or a playful, more distant, companion... if you want two,
some places have social-cat rooms, or have pairs on display. Just let them
know that you're having a baby soon, and someone who works with the cats
could probably tell you pretty quick which cats would work and which ones
absolutely would not.