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Aleksey Gurtovoy
November 23rd 03, 06:52 AM
Hi all,

Does anybody have a copy of the "The Russian Blue Cat" book by
Ingeborg Urcia that they are willing to give away for money (i.e. sell
:)? I know that it's kind of unlikely because if you do have the book
then you are probably a Russian Blue fan, and then chances of you
selling it out are close to zero, but I want it so much (my friend
would be so happy!) that thought I would try anyway. Needless to say
IMO the book is worth much more than it was sold for in stores, and I
will be happy to back up this statement when it's time to pay. Please
email me at if you are interested.

Yours hopingly,
Aleksey

Susan
December 2nd 03, 02:31 PM
I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan






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Susan
December 2nd 03, 02:31 PM
I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

J_Harmeson
December 2nd 03, 03:37 PM
"Susan" > wrote in message
...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we
got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot,
but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris
thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago.

After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
shouldn't have cats.


>Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

J_Harmeson
December 2nd 03, 03:37 PM
"Susan" > wrote in message
...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we
got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot,
but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris
thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago.

After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
shouldn't have cats.


>Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Linda Terrell
December 2nd 03, 05:37 PM
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:31:34 UTC, "Susan" > wrote:

> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan

Cat disappeared how? Was it an outside cat? (If so, why would you
want a pet you let go outside? That isn't a pet, that's a boarder.)

Once they are neutered, it doesn't often much matter. Though I
personally have found that, if you are going ot have 2 cats
only, it's often better to have same sex, or at least, litter mates.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 2nd 03, 05:37 PM
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:31:34 UTC, "Susan" > wrote:

> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan

Cat disappeared how? Was it an outside cat? (If so, why would you
want a pet you let go outside? That isn't a pet, that's a boarder.)

Once they are neutered, it doesn't often much matter. Though I
personally have found that, if you are going ot have 2 cats
only, it's often better to have same sex, or at least, litter mates.

LT

Nina S.
December 2nd 03, 07:08 PM
Anonymous > wrote in message
news:[email protected] 0391065.cotse.net...
> J_Harmeson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
> > shouldn't have cats.
>
>
> Aha, that kind of retarded response shows you are most probably Bob
> Brenchley. (or at the very least his sockpuppet). You appear to be
> suffering from multiple personality disorder!
>
> Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob?
>
> IDIOT!
>
> *PLONK*
Maybe you should heed your own advice. What does this have to do with the
original post?

Nina S.
December 2nd 03, 07:08 PM
Anonymous > wrote in message
news:[email protected] 0391065.cotse.net...
> J_Harmeson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
> > shouldn't have cats.
>
>
> Aha, that kind of retarded response shows you are most probably Bob
> Brenchley. (or at the very least his sockpuppet). You appear to be
> suffering from multiple personality disorder!
>
> Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob?
>
> IDIOT!
>
> *PLONK*
Maybe you should heed your own advice. What does this have to do with the
original post?

Nina S.
December 2nd 03, 07:16 PM
.. Any thoughts? >
>
>
Plenty. First, what happened to the female rescue? Did you ever find out?
This is only one of many reasons my cats, all 6 of them, stay indoors. No
unexplained disappearances. Maybe this is something you should consider
before adopting another. They are so much safer and healthier that way.

As for the sex, I don't think it really matters. I would look for one who
has lived with other cats, (and possibly dogs), and is within close age to
Morris. It's been my experience that males tend to be a bit more
affectionate than females, but this is not always the case. I have met a
couple females who were total love bugs.

Nina

Nina S.
December 2nd 03, 07:16 PM
.. Any thoughts? >
>
>
Plenty. First, what happened to the female rescue? Did you ever find out?
This is only one of many reasons my cats, all 6 of them, stay indoors. No
unexplained disappearances. Maybe this is something you should consider
before adopting another. They are so much safer and healthier that way.

As for the sex, I don't think it really matters. I would look for one who
has lived with other cats, (and possibly dogs), and is within close age to
Morris. It's been my experience that males tend to be a bit more
affectionate than females, but this is not always the case. I have met a
couple females who were total love bugs.

Nina

jim hinds
December 2nd 03, 07:52 PM
We have had two female cats living together for about 14 years. Actually we
started with one female tabby about 10 years old then we got a female kitten
Manx and they lived together for about ten years until the older one passed
away.We then took in our daughters cat for about two years. This was a male
tabby and they got along great. Four years ago we adopted a black Bobtail
female. Both are about the same age.

What we have found is with the female cats one of them is always trying to be
the boss no matter what. First its one then the other. Makes for some
interesting scenes.

When we had both a male and female cat they got along fine but there was alot
of rough housing.

Two cats in the same house should be no problem as long as follow a few simple
steps. Two litter boxes two food bowls. Just be prepared for each of them
trying to own out.

Susan wrote:

> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

jim hinds
December 2nd 03, 07:52 PM
We have had two female cats living together for about 14 years. Actually we
started with one female tabby about 10 years old then we got a female kitten
Manx and they lived together for about ten years until the older one passed
away.We then took in our daughters cat for about two years. This was a male
tabby and they got along great. Four years ago we adopted a black Bobtail
female. Both are about the same age.

What we have found is with the female cats one of them is always trying to be
the boss no matter what. First its one then the other. Makes for some
interesting scenes.

When we had both a male and female cat they got along fine but there was alot
of rough housing.

Two cats in the same house should be no problem as long as follow a few simple
steps. Two litter boxes two food bowls. Just be prepared for each of them
trying to own out.

Susan wrote:

> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

J_Harmeson
December 2nd 03, 08:14 PM
"Anonymous" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] 0391065.cotse.net...
> J_Harmeson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
> > shouldn't have cats.
>
>
> Aha, that kind of retarded response shows you are most probably Bob
> Brenchley. (or at the very least his sockpuppet). You appear to be
> suffering from multiple personality disorder!
>
> Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob?
>
> IDIOT!
>
> *PLONK*
>
Brenchley =
Anonymous

J_Harmeson
December 2nd 03, 08:14 PM
"Anonymous" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] 0391065.cotse.net...
> J_Harmeson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > After reading that, "cat disappeared about 2 months ago", mabye you
> > shouldn't have cats.
>
>
> Aha, that kind of retarded response shows you are most probably Bob
> Brenchley. (or at the very least his sockpuppet). You appear to be
> suffering from multiple personality disorder!
>
> Tired of being killfiled by everyone are we Bob?
>
> IDIOT!
>
> *PLONK*
>
Brenchley =
Anonymous

Luvskats00
December 2nd 03, 10:42 PM
"Susan"
asks

>.... we have had cats for
>years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
>Russian Blue....she was lonely and we got a
>4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
>the bat and ambushed her constantly....We also have 2 >Labrador
Retrievers...the female cat
>disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
>really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
>better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
>neutered to begin with.

That's a lot to digest, Susan. First, you must be aware that for every question
posted in this (or, probably, many newsgroups) you will get many answers..some
contradicting others. You must weed through the posts to determine what info
to accept and what to reject. Before you can do that, you must have some basic
info on cat/dog behavior - healthcare. Since you currently have several pets,
I hope you visit some dog/cat websites (and ask your vet questions along the
way) so you know what you're doing!

Why did a cat disappear under your care? You didn't say the cat was lost or
escaped from the house. From your post, it sounds extremely careless. If you
are ovewhelmed with your current lot of pets, don't adopt another. Currently,
there's a difference of opinion on whether it's acceptable or cruel to let a
cat roam outside. I strongly support keeping a pet inside - in the US, the
expert opinion is that it's best to keep to keep cats inside.

If, after all of this, you feel responsible enough to add another pet, I've
asked other pet owners, vets, newsgroups, websites. Following the advice, I
adopted an opposite sex cat. The match is shakey. Resident male cat attacks
new female cat. I hope you have good luck - with keeping your pets from
disappearing, at least.

Luvskats00
December 2nd 03, 10:42 PM
"Susan"
asks

>.... we have had cats for
>years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
>Russian Blue....she was lonely and we got a
>4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
>the bat and ambushed her constantly....We also have 2 >Labrador
Retrievers...the female cat
>disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
>really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
>better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
>neutered to begin with.

That's a lot to digest, Susan. First, you must be aware that for every question
posted in this (or, probably, many newsgroups) you will get many answers..some
contradicting others. You must weed through the posts to determine what info
to accept and what to reject. Before you can do that, you must have some basic
info on cat/dog behavior - healthcare. Since you currently have several pets,
I hope you visit some dog/cat websites (and ask your vet questions along the
way) so you know what you're doing!

Why did a cat disappear under your care? You didn't say the cat was lost or
escaped from the house. From your post, it sounds extremely careless. If you
are ovewhelmed with your current lot of pets, don't adopt another. Currently,
there's a difference of opinion on whether it's acceptable or cruel to let a
cat roam outside. I strongly support keeping a pet inside - in the US, the
expert opinion is that it's best to keep to keep cats inside.

If, after all of this, you feel responsible enough to add another pet, I've
asked other pet owners, vets, newsgroups, websites. Following the advice, I
adopted an opposite sex cat. The match is shakey. Resident male cat attacks
new female cat. I hope you have good luck - with keeping your pets from
disappearing, at least.

Donald L Ferrt
December 5th 03, 11:59 AM
"Susan" > wrote in message >...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>


Lonely cat? How can you tell? Often you will get more problems with
getting another cat! I keep mine in the house and an enclosure
attached to the house! Have 5 cats. The Young male oftens interacts
to the young female. She will play sometimes and scratch his eyes
sometimes also! Never had a cat alone I would say was lonely!

Donald L Ferrt
December 5th 03, 11:59 AM
"Susan" > wrote in message >...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>


Lonely cat? How can you tell? Often you will get more problems with
getting another cat! I keep mine in the house and an enclosure
attached to the house! Have 5 cats. The Young male oftens interacts
to the young female. She will play sometimes and scratch his eyes
sometimes also! Never had a cat alone I would say was lonely!

Donald L Ferrt
December 5th 03, 12:00 PM
"Susan" > wrote in message >...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>

PS = Pics of my outside cat enclosure:

http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html

Donald L Ferrt
December 5th 03, 12:00 PM
"Susan" > wrote in message >...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>

PS = Pics of my outside cat enclosure:

http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html

Luvskats00
December 5th 03, 12:29 PM
Beautiful cat! Nice enclosure, too.

Luvskats00
December 5th 03, 12:29 PM
Beautiful cat! Nice enclosure, too.

James Collins
December 6th 03, 10:26 PM
You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
title of expert?
Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
and kill.
When we decide that are cats are better off indoors, are we even attempting
to think about what they want?
If not, are we the pets owner, or Warden?
And is it a pets home or prison?
If your cat stares out the window for hours, watching for any movement,
hopefully a bird. Eventually he sees the birds coming, so he crouches
lower, as if to hide behind an imaginary bush. They get closer, he gets
lower. Closer, lower. Then your cant control his anxiety any further and
begins to start chattering......... If that sounds like your cat, you
have to ask yourself "what did he/she do to deserve being incarcerated for
life?"
"is he/she truely happy?"
"who am I to take away the livelyhood of such an innocent animal?"

That's my EXPERT opinion. What makes me an expert?
I have two cats and feel EXTREMELY GUILTY about keeping them indoors. I
know that more than anything, they want to be able to explore and experience
new things. They want to be able to actually stalk a bird, and then
actually catch it!!!!
I also know that they are truely bored with everything in the house. I do
play with them often, that's not the problem, it's just that nothing has new
smells, and the carpet always feels the same under their paws.

If I were to live anywhere but where I am now, my cats would be allowed
outdoors. The streets are too busy, and neighborhood kids have been seen
torturing cats. Once the kids were walking around with a dead kitten on a
leash, and laughing.
Yes, getting hit by a car is a possibility. But a risk they wouldn't think
twice about to regain their freedom.
But I strongly feel that they would make the decision to die tomorrow, if
that is what it would take to go outside today.

Have you ever been in Jail???
I was once, for a false charge.
Being locked up, for doing nothing wrong.

And that's what I do to my cats. What makes it right for me to do that to
them?

James


"Luvskats00" > wrote in message
...
> "Susan"
> asks
>
> >.... we have had cats for
> >years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> >Russian Blue....she was lonely and we got a
> >4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> >the bat and ambushed her constantly....We also have 2 >Labrador
> Retrievers...the female cat
> >disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> >really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> >better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> >neutered to begin with.
>
> That's a lot to digest, Susan. First, you must be aware that for every
question
> posted in this (or, probably, many newsgroups) you will get many
answers..some
> contradicting others. You must weed through the posts to determine what
info
> to accept and what to reject. Before you can do that, you must have some
basic
> info on cat/dog behavior - healthcare. Since you currently have several
pets,
> I hope you visit some dog/cat websites (and ask your vet questions along
the
> way) so you know what you're doing!
>
> Why did a cat disappear under your care? You didn't say the cat was lost
or
> escaped from the house. From your post, it sounds extremely careless. If
you
> are ovewhelmed with your current lot of pets, don't adopt another.
Currently,
> there's a difference of opinion on whether it's acceptable or cruel to let
a
> cat roam outside. I strongly support keeping a pet inside - in the US, the
> expert opinion is that it's best to keep to keep cats inside.
>
> If, after all of this, you feel responsible enough to add another pet,
I've
> asked other pet owners, vets, newsgroups, websites. Following the advice,
I
> adopted an opposite sex cat. The match is shakey. Resident male cat
attacks
> new female cat. I hope you have good luck - with keeping your pets from
> disappearing, at least.

James Collins
December 6th 03, 10:26 PM
You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
title of expert?
Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
and kill.
When we decide that are cats are better off indoors, are we even attempting
to think about what they want?
If not, are we the pets owner, or Warden?
And is it a pets home or prison?
If your cat stares out the window for hours, watching for any movement,
hopefully a bird. Eventually he sees the birds coming, so he crouches
lower, as if to hide behind an imaginary bush. They get closer, he gets
lower. Closer, lower. Then your cant control his anxiety any further and
begins to start chattering......... If that sounds like your cat, you
have to ask yourself "what did he/she do to deserve being incarcerated for
life?"
"is he/she truely happy?"
"who am I to take away the livelyhood of such an innocent animal?"

That's my EXPERT opinion. What makes me an expert?
I have two cats and feel EXTREMELY GUILTY about keeping them indoors. I
know that more than anything, they want to be able to explore and experience
new things. They want to be able to actually stalk a bird, and then
actually catch it!!!!
I also know that they are truely bored with everything in the house. I do
play with them often, that's not the problem, it's just that nothing has new
smells, and the carpet always feels the same under their paws.

If I were to live anywhere but where I am now, my cats would be allowed
outdoors. The streets are too busy, and neighborhood kids have been seen
torturing cats. Once the kids were walking around with a dead kitten on a
leash, and laughing.
Yes, getting hit by a car is a possibility. But a risk they wouldn't think
twice about to regain their freedom.
But I strongly feel that they would make the decision to die tomorrow, if
that is what it would take to go outside today.

Have you ever been in Jail???
I was once, for a false charge.
Being locked up, for doing nothing wrong.

And that's what I do to my cats. What makes it right for me to do that to
them?

James


"Luvskats00" > wrote in message
...
> "Susan"
> asks
>
> >.... we have had cats for
> >years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> >Russian Blue....she was lonely and we got a
> >4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> >the bat and ambushed her constantly....We also have 2 >Labrador
> Retrievers...the female cat
> >disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> >really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> >better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> >neutered to begin with.
>
> That's a lot to digest, Susan. First, you must be aware that for every
question
> posted in this (or, probably, many newsgroups) you will get many
answers..some
> contradicting others. You must weed through the posts to determine what
info
> to accept and what to reject. Before you can do that, you must have some
basic
> info on cat/dog behavior - healthcare. Since you currently have several
pets,
> I hope you visit some dog/cat websites (and ask your vet questions along
the
> way) so you know what you're doing!
>
> Why did a cat disappear under your care? You didn't say the cat was lost
or
> escaped from the house. From your post, it sounds extremely careless. If
you
> are ovewhelmed with your current lot of pets, don't adopt another.
Currently,
> there's a difference of opinion on whether it's acceptable or cruel to let
a
> cat roam outside. I strongly support keeping a pet inside - in the US, the
> expert opinion is that it's best to keep to keep cats inside.
>
> If, after all of this, you feel responsible enough to add another pet,
I've
> asked other pet owners, vets, newsgroups, websites. Following the advice,
I
> adopted an opposite sex cat. The match is shakey. Resident male cat
attacks
> new female cat. I hope you have good luck - with keeping your pets from
> disappearing, at least.

Luvskats00
December 7th 03, 01:48 AM
"James Collins"
writes

>You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
>I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
>title of expert?
>Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
>and kill.

If you have any awareness of the outside world, you would know that you can't
assume that any individual or group possesses specific knowledge about anything
at all. What you think is common might not be so for the next guy/gal. As far
as "expert opinion"...it's a national position. The humane/animal protection
socities in America have positioned themselves to support that cats should be
indoors. I invite you to go back to the past 1-2-3-4-5-6-and more months to
read/digest the large number of posts in the indoor/outdoor thread.

Luvskats00
December 7th 03, 01:48 AM
"James Collins"
writes

>You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
>I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
>title of expert?
>Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
>and kill.

If you have any awareness of the outside world, you would know that you can't
assume that any individual or group possesses specific knowledge about anything
at all. What you think is common might not be so for the next guy/gal. As far
as "expert opinion"...it's a national position. The humane/animal protection
socities in America have positioned themselves to support that cats should be
indoors. I invite you to go back to the past 1-2-3-4-5-6-and more months to
read/digest the large number of posts in the indoor/outdoor thread.

Bob Brenchley.
December 7th 03, 11:24 AM
On 07 Dec 2003 01:48:36 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:

>"James Collins"
>writes
>
>>You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
>>I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
>>title of expert?
>>Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
>>and kill.
>
>If you have any awareness of the outside world, you would know that you can't
>assume that any individual or group possesses specific knowledge about anything
>at all. What you think is common might not be so for the next guy/gal. As far
>as "expert opinion"...it's a national position. The humane/animal protection
>socities in America have positioned themselves to support that cats should be
>indoors.

How can any group that advocates the systematic ill-treatment of cats
be classified as "humane"?

> I invite you to go back to the past 1-2-3-4-5-6-and more months to
>read/digest the large number of posts in the indoor/outdoor thread.

Make that years, and yet still the animal abusers keep turning up on
cat groups promoting the imprisonment of cats.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
December 7th 03, 11:24 AM
On 07 Dec 2003 01:48:36 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:

>"James Collins"
>writes
>
>>You state that it is the expert opinion, in the US, to keep cats indoors....
>>I have to ask what special qualifications this "Expert" has to receive the
>>title of expert?
>>Everyone knows that cats are natural hunters, it's in their blood to stalk,
>>and kill.
>
>If you have any awareness of the outside world, you would know that you can't
>assume that any individual or group possesses specific knowledge about anything
>at all. What you think is common might not be so for the next guy/gal. As far
>as "expert opinion"...it's a national position. The humane/animal protection
>socities in America have positioned themselves to support that cats should be
>indoors.

How can any group that advocates the systematic ill-treatment of cats
be classified as "humane"?

> I invite you to go back to the past 1-2-3-4-5-6-and more months to
>read/digest the large number of posts in the indoor/outdoor thread.

Make that years, and yet still the animal abusers keep turning up on
cat groups promoting the imprisonment of cats.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Luvskats00
December 7th 03, 12:48 PM


fyi...since you are so stunted...

there is a culture difference in 1) attitude 2) actual practice 3) laws
Many/the majority in the US and those in the UK differ....You may believe a
certain way..that doesn't make it law..or humane or the "right thing" or the
"only way to think". I hope cats in your charge don't get run over by cars,
die from ingesting antifreeze/coolant/other poisons, mauled/killed by wild
animals/dogs/humans.

>... To have
>a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>cruel, selfish, or both.

Luvskats00
December 7th 03, 12:48 PM


fyi...since you are so stunted...

there is a culture difference in 1) attitude 2) actual practice 3) laws
Many/the majority in the US and those in the UK differ....You may believe a
certain way..that doesn't make it law..or humane or the "right thing" or the
"only way to think". I hope cats in your charge don't get run over by cars,
die from ingesting antifreeze/coolant/other poisons, mauled/killed by wild
animals/dogs/humans.

>... To have
>a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>cruel, selfish, or both.

Linda Terrell
December 7th 03, 03:51 PM
>
> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> cruel, selfish, or both.


Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside. A cat found loose,
outdoors, in most municipalities here will be taken in by Animal
Control.

Houses equipped with enclosed patios or pools or a large walk in
enclosure in a yard are few, especially in the Nawth. Plus most
people
can't afford this. Nor people living in apartments.

But you would deny a cat a home because it would have to be kept in.

Now *that's* cruel.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 7th 03, 03:51 PM
>
> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> cruel, selfish, or both.


Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside. A cat found loose,
outdoors, in most municipalities here will be taken in by Animal
Control.

Houses equipped with enclosed patios or pools or a large walk in
enclosure in a yard are few, especially in the Nawth. Plus most
people
can't afford this. Nor people living in apartments.

But you would deny a cat a home because it would have to be kept in.

Now *that's* cruel.

LT

Susan
December 7th 03, 05:31 PM
excuse me? I particularly resent the tone of your statement! There are no
pets on earth that are treated better than ours. They're our children.
Good people's KIDS sometimes disappear also. If this is the welcome I get
to this group then I guess I'll stay out!
Susan

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872




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Susan
December 7th 03, 05:31 PM
excuse me? I particularly resent the tone of your statement! There are no
pets on earth that are treated better than ours. They're our children.
Good people's KIDS sometimes disappear also. If this is the welcome I get
to this group then I guess I'll stay out!
Susan

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872




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Susan
December 7th 03, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the help - your advice has been great. Elsa disappeared October 5
and was never seen again. We have a neighbor whose cat disappeared about a
year ago and 5 months later, CAME BACK. ----- I say Morris is lonely
because of the way he behaves - bored despite TONS of toys and even playing
with the 2 dogs. As far as having cats that go outside, I know this sounds
like a bad idea to some, but to others, keeping an animal captive in the
house sounds cruel. I guess it's just a matter of opinion and I certainly
would never force my opinion on others. I don't give unsolicited advice.
We live deep in the woods and had an INDOOR/OUTDOOR cat for 18 years. He
was perfectly healthy until renal failure was killing him. Our cats are
never left outside on their own for long periods. They're never out at
night and when no one is home they are in, and they are checked up on
regularly when out. In the winter they don't WANT to go out for more than a
minute or two. If I lived in a metro area, or close to a highway or where
there was great danger I wouldn't own a cat. (I'm not saying others
shouldn't, just that I wouldn't want to.) They are much happier being able
to go out and run and play and climb trees and go for walks in the woods
with the dogs and us. They even prefer to do their business outside in the
woods, so litter box is very seldom used. They don't get fat and lazy
because they get such alot of exercise. Anyway, we have picked out another
cat at the shelter and will pick him up tomorrow. 7 month old male grey
tiger - lots of spunk, not afraid of dogs and loves other cats. I'll let
you know how they're doing.
Susan

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872t




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Susan
December 7th 03, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the help - your advice has been great. Elsa disappeared October 5
and was never seen again. We have a neighbor whose cat disappeared about a
year ago and 5 months later, CAME BACK. ----- I say Morris is lonely
because of the way he behaves - bored despite TONS of toys and even playing
with the 2 dogs. As far as having cats that go outside, I know this sounds
like a bad idea to some, but to others, keeping an animal captive in the
house sounds cruel. I guess it's just a matter of opinion and I certainly
would never force my opinion on others. I don't give unsolicited advice.
We live deep in the woods and had an INDOOR/OUTDOOR cat for 18 years. He
was perfectly healthy until renal failure was killing him. Our cats are
never left outside on their own for long periods. They're never out at
night and when no one is home they are in, and they are checked up on
regularly when out. In the winter they don't WANT to go out for more than a
minute or two. If I lived in a metro area, or close to a highway or where
there was great danger I wouldn't own a cat. (I'm not saying others
shouldn't, just that I wouldn't want to.) They are much happier being able
to go out and run and play and climb trees and go for walks in the woods
with the dogs and us. They even prefer to do their business outside in the
woods, so litter box is very seldom used. They don't get fat and lazy
because they get such alot of exercise. Anyway, we have picked out another
cat at the shelter and will pick him up tomorrow. 7 month old male grey
tiger - lots of spunk, not afraid of dogs and loves other cats. I'll let
you know how they're doing.
Susan

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872t




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Susan
December 7th 03, 06:04 PM
I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my
reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate
about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the
question I did ask, you all have been very helpful.
SC





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Susan
December 7th 03, 06:04 PM
I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my
reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate
about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the
question I did ask, you all have been very helpful.
SC





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J_Harmeson
December 7th 03, 06:23 PM
After reading that, I recant my post dated 02/12/2003. Thanks Susan.

Nice restaurant, too bad I live 4078 KM (2533 miles) away.

J_Harmeson
December 7th 03, 06:23 PM
After reading that, I recant my post dated 02/12/2003. Thanks Susan.

Nice restaurant, too bad I live 4078 KM (2533 miles) away.

Linda Terrell
December 8th 03, 07:27 AM
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:04:38 UTC, "Susan" > wrote:

> I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my
> reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate
> about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the
> question I did ask, you all have been very helpful.
> SC
>
>
Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me.

LT


--

Linda Terrell
December 8th 03, 07:27 AM
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:04:38 UTC, "Susan" > wrote:

> I beg your pardon, but it IS a pet. Some people's pets go outside. Read my
> reply to Donald Ferrt. I wasn't expecting unsolicited advice or a debate
> about having indoor or outdoor cats. Also, thank you for your advice on the
> question I did ask, you all have been very helpful.
> SC
>
>
Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me.

LT


--

Susan
December 8th 03, 02:26 PM
Thank you! Wow, 2533 miles - where do you live??
S

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872




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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Susan
December 8th 03, 02:26 PM
Thank you! Wow, 2533 miles - where do you live??
S

--
CAMERON'S RESTAURANT
FEATURED IN SEPT. 2001 SKIING MAGAZINE
57 Saranac Ave.
Lake Placid, NY 12946
518 523-7872

www.cameronsrestaurant.com
518 523-7872




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Bob Brenchley.
December 8th 03, 06:15 PM
On 07 Dec 2003 12:48:13 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:


>

>>... To have
>>a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>>cruel, selfish, or both.
>

Moronic posting style corrected. You have not been charged for this
service but I reserve the right to charge in the future if you make
the same mistake again.

>fyi...since you are so stunted...
>
>there is a culture difference in 1) attitude 2) actual practice 3) laws
>Many/the majority in the US and those in the UK differ....

The is ZERO difference in the cats.

>You may believe a
>certain way..that doesn't make it law..or humane or the "right thing" or the
>"only way to think". I hope cats in your charge don't get run over by cars,

No, not lost one in 40+ years - and I've always lived in cities.

>die from ingesting antifreeze/coolant/other poisons,

In the UK antifreeze is pet safe - the law requires it of all
antifreeze manufactured in the EU.

>mauled/killed by wild
>animals/dogs/humans.

No, but I have helped treat many dogs/humans that have been mauled by
cats.

--
Bob.

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance.

Bob Brenchley.
December 8th 03, 06:15 PM
On 07 Dec 2003 12:48:13 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:


>

>>... To have
>>a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>>cruel, selfish, or both.
>

Moronic posting style corrected. You have not been charged for this
service but I reserve the right to charge in the future if you make
the same mistake again.

>fyi...since you are so stunted...
>
>there is a culture difference in 1) attitude 2) actual practice 3) laws
>Many/the majority in the US and those in the UK differ....

The is ZERO difference in the cats.

>You may believe a
>certain way..that doesn't make it law..or humane or the "right thing" or the
>"only way to think". I hope cats in your charge don't get run over by cars,

No, not lost one in 40+ years - and I've always lived in cities.

>die from ingesting antifreeze/coolant/other poisons,

In the UK antifreeze is pet safe - the law requires it of all
antifreeze manufactured in the EU.

>mauled/killed by wild
>animals/dogs/humans.

No, but I have helped treat many dogs/humans that have been mauled by
cats.

--
Bob.

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance.

Bob Brenchley.
December 8th 03, 06:17 PM
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>>
>> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>
>Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.

Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.

> A cat found loose,
>outdoors, in most municipalities here will be taken in by Animal
>Control.
>
>Houses equipped with enclosed patios or pools or a large walk in
>enclosure in a yard are few, especially in the Nawth. Plus most
>people
>can't afford this. Nor people living in apartments.

Caging a cat is NOT acceptable treatment.
>
>But you would deny a cat a home because it would have to be kept in.

No, I would deny an unsuitable home a cat.
>
>Now *that's* cruel.
>
>LT

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
December 8th 03, 06:17 PM
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>>
>> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>
>Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.

Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.

> A cat found loose,
>outdoors, in most municipalities here will be taken in by Animal
>Control.
>
>Houses equipped with enclosed patios or pools or a large walk in
>enclosure in a yard are few, especially in the Nawth. Plus most
>people
>can't afford this. Nor people living in apartments.

Caging a cat is NOT acceptable treatment.
>
>But you would deny a cat a home because it would have to be kept in.

No, I would deny an unsuitable home a cat.
>
>Now *that's* cruel.
>
>LT

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Linda Terrell
December 9th 03, 01:53 AM
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >
> >
> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>
> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.

Healthy cats abound here -- indoors. Outside cats here are dead.
Or will be.

THAT'S abuse.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 9th 03, 01:53 AM
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >
> >
> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>
> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.

Healthy cats abound here -- indoors. Outside cats here are dead.
Or will be.

THAT'S abuse.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 10:19 AM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >
>> >
>> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>>
>> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
>> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
>
>Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.

Liar!

>Outside cats here are dead.

Liar!

>Or will be.
>
>THAT'S abuse.

Liar!
>
>LT
>
Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 10:19 AM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >
>> >
>> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>>
>> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
>> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
>
>Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.

Liar!

>Outside cats here are dead.

Liar!

>Or will be.
>
>THAT'S abuse.

Liar!
>
>LT
>
Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Luvskats00
December 9th 03, 11:39 AM
writes

>If brains were taxed, you would get >a rebate.

Unfortunately, you couldn't apply for a rebate. You lack a brain. You
constantly troll..you vermin. Go hide in a bog or something.

Luvskats00
December 9th 03, 11:39 AM
writes

>If brains were taxed, you would get >a rebate.

Unfortunately, you couldn't apply for a rebate. You lack a brain. You
constantly troll..you vermin. Go hide in a bog or something.

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 01:58 PM
On 09 Dec 2003 11:39:25 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:

writes
>
>>If brains were taxed, you would get >a rebate.
>
>Unfortunately, you couldn't apply for a rebate. You lack a brain. You
>constantly troll..you vermin. Go hide in a bog or something.

Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 01:58 PM
On 09 Dec 2003 11:39:25 GMT, (Luvskats00) wrote:

writes
>
>>If brains were taxed, you would get >a rebate.
>
>Unfortunately, you couldn't apply for a rebate. You lack a brain. You
>constantly troll..you vermin. Go hide in a bog or something.

Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 07:17 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:15:38 -0500, "medicscout"
> wrote:

>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>
>For more information about Bob, please see:

Abuse Report Filed.

--
Bob.

Your stupidity sets new standards - even for Usenet.

Bob Brenchley.
December 9th 03, 07:17 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:15:38 -0500, "medicscout"
> wrote:

>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>
>For more information about Bob, please see:

Abuse Report Filed.

--
Bob.

Your stupidity sets new standards - even for Usenet.

Linda Terrell
December 9th 03, 07:57 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
> >>
> >> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
> >> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
> >
> >Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.
>
> Liar!
>
> >Outside cats here are dead.
>
> Liar!
>
> >Or will be.
> >
> >THAT'S abuse.
>
> Liar!
> >
> >LT
> >
> Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>

Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
a candidate for Paxil.

Adjust your meds accordingly.

There are 40 million feral cats in the USA. They mostly die
or live hard and pitiful lives producing more feral cats to
live and die miserably.

That many cats comes from letting cats outside to roam.

LT

abuse report filed

Linda Terrell
December 9th 03, 07:57 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
> >>
> >> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
> >> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
> >
> >Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.
>
> Liar!
>
> >Outside cats here are dead.
>
> Liar!
>
> >Or will be.
> >
> >THAT'S abuse.
>
> Liar!
> >
> >LT
> >
> Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>

Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
a candidate for Paxil.

Adjust your meds accordingly.

There are 40 million feral cats in the USA. They mostly die
or live hard and pitiful lives producing more feral cats to
live and die miserably.

That many cats comes from letting cats outside to roam.

LT

abuse report filed

Cosmo
December 9th 03, 08:15 PM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
> >
>
> Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
> a candidate for Paxil.
>
> Adjust your meds accordingly.

This guy Bob is imbecile, just ignore him.
He has a website up about his antics.
http://badtux.net/bob-faq.html

Cosmo
December 9th 03, 08:15 PM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
> >
>
> Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
> a candidate for Paxil.
>
> Adjust your meds accordingly.

This guy Bob is imbecile, just ignore him.
He has a website up about his antics.
http://badtux.net/bob-faq.html

Bob Brenchley.
December 10th 03, 03:35 PM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:22 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>> >>
>> >> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
>> >> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
>> >
>> >Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.
>>
>> Liar!
>>
>> >Outside cats here are dead.
>>
>> Liar!
>>
>> >Or will be.
>> >
>> >THAT'S abuse.
>>
>> Liar!
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>> Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>>
>
>Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
>a candidate for Paxil.
>
>Adjust your meds accordingly.
>
>There are 40 million feral cats in the USA. They mostly die
>or live hard and pitiful lives producing more feral cats to
>live and die miserably.

And the average age of those cats is put at SEVEN years, which goes a
long way to disprove the claims that cats only live short lives in the
wild.
>
>That many cats comes from letting cats outside to roam.

No, most feral cats are only first or second generation in most areas.
>
>LT
>
>abuse report filed

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
December 10th 03, 03:35 PM
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 19:57:22 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:53:04 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:17:47 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:51:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Laws in the USA forbid cats wandering outside.
>> >>
>> >> Laws are mad by humans. You allowed a law to be passed that ill-treats
>> >> cats. Your acceptance of that law makes you an abuser as well.
>> >
>> >Healthy cats abound here -- indoors.
>>
>> Liar!
>>
>> >Outside cats here are dead.
>>
>> Liar!
>>
>> >Or will be.
>> >
>> >THAT'S abuse.
>>
>> Liar!
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>> Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>>
>
>Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
>a candidate for Paxil.
>
>Adjust your meds accordingly.
>
>There are 40 million feral cats in the USA. They mostly die
>or live hard and pitiful lives producing more feral cats to
>live and die miserably.

And the average age of those cats is put at SEVEN years, which goes a
long way to disprove the claims that cats only live short lives in the
wild.
>
>That many cats comes from letting cats outside to roam.

No, most feral cats are only first or second generation in most areas.
>
>LT
>
>abuse report filed

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
December 10th 03, 03:35 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:15:58 -0500, "Cosmo"
> wrote:

>"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>> >
>>
>> Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
>> a candidate for Paxil.
>>
>> Adjust your meds accordingly.
>
>This guy Bob is imbecile, just ignore him.
>He has a website up about his antics.

Abuse Report Filed.

--
Bob.

Your stupidity sets new standards - even for Usenet.

Bob Brenchley.
December 10th 03, 03:35 PM
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:15:58 -0500, "Cosmo"
> wrote:

>"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:19:15 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > Three lies in one post makes you as a very stupid person.
>> >
>>
>> Thinking you've even found 3 lies in any one post makes you
>> a candidate for Paxil.
>>
>> Adjust your meds accordingly.
>
>This guy Bob is imbecile, just ignore him.
>He has a website up about his antics.

Abuse Report Filed.

--
Bob.

Your stupidity sets new standards - even for Usenet.

Linda Terrell
December 10th 03, 07:02 PM
grunting at your mirror again, I see.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 10th 03, 07:02 PM
grunting at your mirror again, I see.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 11th 03, 03:05 PM
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>
>LT
>

Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
December 11th 03, 03:05 PM
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>
>LT
>

Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Linda Terrell
December 11th 03, 09:42 PM
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >
> >LT
> >
>
> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

Oh, look who's calling others trolls!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

etc.

LT
--

Linda Terrell
December 11th 03, 09:42 PM
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >
> >LT
> >
>
> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.

Oh, look who's calling others trolls!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

etc.

LT
--

Bob Brenchley.
December 14th 03, 08:28 PM
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>>
>> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>
>Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
>
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>etc.
>
>LT

You are making an idiot of yourself troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
December 14th 03, 08:28 PM
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>>
>> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>
>Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
>
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>etc.
>
>LT

You are making an idiot of yourself troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Linda Terrell
December 15th 03, 06:11 PM
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:28:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
> >
> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
> >
> >hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
> >
> >etc.
> >
> >LT
>
> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.

Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 15th 03, 06:11 PM
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:28:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
> >
> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
> >
> >hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
> >
> >etc.
> >
> >LT
>
> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.

Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 17th 03, 04:15 PM
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:11:28 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:28:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>> >
>> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
>> >
>> >hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>> >
>> >etc.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
>
>Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
>
>LT
>
>
The silly one is you.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds rather like Linda Terrell.'

Bob Brenchley.
December 17th 03, 04:15 PM
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:11:28 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:28:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:42:14 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:05:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:02:33 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>> >
>> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
>> >
>> >hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>> >
>> >etc.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
>
>Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
>
>LT
>
>
The silly one is you.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds rather like Linda Terrell.'

Linda Terrell
December 17th 03, 05:14 PM
> >> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
> >> >
> >> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
T
> >>
> >> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
> >
> >Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
> >
> >LT
> >
> >
> The silly one is you.

Your mirror is broken.

LT



--

Linda Terrell
December 17th 03, 05:14 PM
> >> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
> >> >
> >> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
T
> >>
> >> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
> >
> >Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
> >
> >LT
> >
> >
> The silly one is you.

Your mirror is broken.

LT



--

Bob Brenchley.
December 18th 03, 07:32 PM
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:14:06 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>> >> >
>> >> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
> T
>> >>
>> >> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
>> >
>> >Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>> >
>> The silly one is you.
>
>Your mirror is broken.
>
>LT

Why? Did your face crack it?

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
December 18th 03, 07:32 PM
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:14:06 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >> >> >grunting at your mirror again, I see.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh do shut up you stupid troll.
>> >> >
>> >> >Oh, look who's calling others trolls!
> T
>> >>
>> >> You are making an idiot of yourself troll.
>> >
>> >Every time you talk to your mirror, you get sillier.
>> >
>> >LT
>> >
>> >
>> The silly one is you.
>
>Your mirror is broken.
>
>LT

Why? Did your face crack it?

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Linda Terrell
December 19th 03, 05:03 PM
> >Your mirror is broken.
> >
> >LT
>
> Why? Did your face crack it?

Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
Makes you talk funny.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 19th 03, 05:03 PM
> >Your mirror is broken.
> >
> >LT
>
> Why? Did your face crack it?

Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
Makes you talk funny.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 19th 03, 10:58 PM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Why? Did your face crack it?
>
>Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>Makes you talk funny.
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

Artificial intelligence is no match for your natural stupidity.

Bob Brenchley.
December 19th 03, 10:58 PM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Why? Did your face crack it?
>
>Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>Makes you talk funny.
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

Artificial intelligence is no match for your natural stupidity.

Linda Terrell
December 20th 03, 03:33 PM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> >Your mirror is broken.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
> >
> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
> >Makes you talk funny.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.
>

Got your mirror on rerun, again.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 20th 03, 03:33 PM
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> >Your mirror is broken.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
> >
> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
> >Makes you talk funny.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.
>

Got your mirror on rerun, again.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 20th 03, 07:55 PM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
>> >
>> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>> >Makes you talk funny.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>>
>
>Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll

--
Bob.

You are an Ignoranus. A person who is both stupid and an arsehole.

Bob Brenchley.
December 20th 03, 07:55 PM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
>> >
>> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>> >Makes you talk funny.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>>
>
>Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll

--
Bob.

You are an Ignoranus. A person who is both stupid and an arsehole.

Linda Terrell
December 20th 03, 08:48 PM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:55:23 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >Your mirror is broken.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >>
> >> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
> >> >
> >> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
> >> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
> >> >Makes you talk funny.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >>
> >
> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll


My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?

LT


--

Linda Terrell
December 20th 03, 08:48 PM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:55:23 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >Your mirror is broken.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >>
> >> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
> >> >
> >> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
> >> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
> >> >Makes you talk funny.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >>
> >
> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll


My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?

LT


--

Bob Brenchley.
December 21st 03, 08:40 AM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:48:45 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:55:23 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
>> >> >
>> >> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>> >> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>> >> >Makes you talk funny.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll
>
>
>My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool like you.

Bob Brenchley.
December 21st 03, 08:40 AM
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:48:45 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:55:23 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:33:21 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:58:05 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:03:02 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >Your mirror is broken.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why? Did your face crack it?
>> >> >
>> >> >Ah, caught you talking to your mirror again.
>> >> >Don't you feel silly muttering between all those cracks?
>> >> >Makes you talk funny.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll
>
>
>My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool like you.

Linda Terrell
December 21st 03, 05:23 PM
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid troll.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid Troll
> >
> >
> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.

Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
you perfect it.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 21st 03, 05:23 PM
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid troll.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid Troll
> >
> >
> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.

Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
you perfect it.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 21st 03, 10:10 PM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid troll.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid Troll
>> >
>> >
>> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
>you perfect it.
>
>LT

You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.

--
Bob.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid but you're abusing the privilege.

Bob Brenchley.
December 21st 03, 10:10 PM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid troll.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid Troll
>> >
>> >
>> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
>you perfect it.
>
>LT

You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.

--
Bob.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid but you're abusing the privilege.

Linda Terrell
December 22nd 03, 01:36 AM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Stupid troll.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid Troll
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >
> >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
> >you perfect it.
> >
> >LT
>
> You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.

Aww, did the whores turn you down again?

The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.

LT



--

Linda Terrell
December 22nd 03, 01:36 AM
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Stupid troll.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >LT
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid Troll
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >
> >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
> >you perfect it.
> >
> >LT
>
> You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.

Aww, did the whores turn you down again?

The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.

LT



--

Hans Schrøder
December 22nd 03, 02:20 AM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Stupid troll.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >LT
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Stupid Troll
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> > >> >
> > >> >LT
> > >>
> > >> Stupid troll.
> > >
> > >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
> > >you perfect it.
> > >
> > >LT
> >
> > You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.
>
> Aww, did the whores turn you down again?
>
> The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.
>
> LT
I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!

Hans

Hans Schrøder
December 22nd 03, 02:20 AM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Stupid troll.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >LT
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Stupid Troll
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
> > >> >
> > >> >LT
> > >>
> > >> Stupid troll.
> > >
> > >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
> > >you perfect it.
> > >
> > >LT
> >
> > You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.
>
> Aww, did the whores turn you down again?
>
> The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.
>
> LT
I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!

Hans

Linda Terrell
December 22nd 03, 06:58 PM
As long as it makes me happy.

don't read it.

Benchley has it coming for years of degrading other people.

LT


> I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
> None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
> So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!
>
> Hans
>
>


--

Linda Terrell
December 22nd 03, 06:58 PM
As long as it makes me happy.

don't read it.

Benchley has it coming for years of degrading other people.

LT


> I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
> None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
> So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!
>
> Hans
>
>


--

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 10:31 AM
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:36:03 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Stupid troll.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid Troll
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
>> >you perfect it.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.
>
>Aww, did the whores turn you down again?
>
>The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.
>
>LT
>

Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds like the stupid troll Linda Terrell to me.'

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 10:31 AM
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:36:03 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:10:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:23:55 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Stupid troll.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Got your mirror on rerun, again.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >LT
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid Troll
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >My, my -- do you eat with those fingers?
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >Of course you are, and you will continue to be one until
>> >you perfect it.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> You are the troll - learn to live with the shame.
>
>Aww, did the whores turn you down again?
>
>The cemetery called -- the residents voted you off the island.
>
>LT
>

Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds like the stupid troll Linda Terrell to me.'

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 10:32 AM
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:58:53 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
>> None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
>> So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
Moronic posting style corrected. You have not been charged for this
service but I reserve the right to charge in the future if you make
the same mistake again.

>As long as it makes me happy.
>
>don't read it.
>
>Benchley has it coming for years of degrading other people.

The only people I degrade are top-posting, animal abusing trolls like
YOU.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 10:32 AM
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:58:53 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> I just have to ask: For how long are you going to keep this bull**** going?
>> None of you are ever going to give in, but I find it embarassing and noisy!
>> So please, both of you, shut up and go to bed. No supper for you tonight!
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
Moronic posting style corrected. You have not been charged for this
service but I reserve the right to charge in the future if you make
the same mistake again.

>As long as it makes me happy.
>
>don't read it.
>
>Benchley has it coming for years of degrading other people.

The only people I degrade are top-posting, animal abusing trolls like
YOU.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Linda Terrell
December 23rd 03, 04:41 PM
> >
>
> Stupid Troll.
>


--did someone write this for you, Bob?

LT

Linda Terrell
December 23rd 03, 04:41 PM
> >
>
> Stupid Troll.
>


--did someone write this for you, Bob?

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 11:16 PM
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >
>>
>> Stupid Troll.
>>
>
>
>--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

When you came to the fountain of knowledge, you merely gargled.

Bob Brenchley.
December 23rd 03, 11:16 PM
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >
>>
>> Stupid Troll.
>>
>
>
>--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

When you came to the fountain of knowledge, you merely gargled.

Linda Terrell
December 24th 03, 05:06 PM
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Stupid Troll.
> >>
> >
> >
> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.


So, you are still talking to your mirror.

LT

Linda Terrell
December 24th 03, 05:06 PM
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Stupid Troll.
> >>
> >
> >
> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.


So, you are still talking to your mirror.

LT

Bob Brenchley.
December 24th 03, 08:16 PM
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Stupid Troll.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>
>So, you are still talking to your mirror.
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
December 24th 03, 08:16 PM
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Stupid Troll.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>
>So, you are still talking to your mirror.
>
>LT

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Linda Terrell
December 25th 03, 02:42 PM
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:16:58 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid Troll.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >
> >
> >So, you are still talking to your mirror.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.

Your mirror is stuck.

LT
>


--

Linda Terrell
December 25th 03, 02:42 PM
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:16:58 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Stupid Troll.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
> >> >
> >> >LT
> >>
> >> Stupid troll.
> >
> >
> >So, you are still talking to your mirror.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid troll.

Your mirror is stuck.

LT
>


--

Bob Brenchley.
December 25th 03, 05:14 PM
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:42:31 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:16:58 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid Troll.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >
>> >So, you are still talking to your mirror.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>Your mirror is stuck.
>
>LT
>>

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Bob Brenchley.
December 25th 03, 05:14 PM
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 14:42:31 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:16:58 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:06:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:16:41 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:41:10 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stupid Troll.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--did someone write this for you, Bob?
>> >> >
>> >> >LT
>> >>
>> >> Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >
>> >So, you are still talking to your mirror.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid troll.
>
>Your mirror is stuck.
>
>LT
>>

Stupid troll.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Melissa Powell
December 26th 03, 06:40 AM
Susan,

I'm new as well to this group...and while I don't let my cats out (big
city), I have no problem with other people doing it. Cats are the least
domesticated of the 'domestic' animals - and as Kipling said, (paraphrased)
"And she walked by herself." Ce la vie.

Anyway, back to the original question: I've had nine cats over the
years....generally I find that having a male, and then getting a female is
the way to go. Right now I have four cats: three males and a much older
female, who doesn't get along with anyone - her buddy, another female, died
recently...so she's hanging on her own - with me. Typically, if you have
more than two males there might be a dominance issue - but if they are
around the same age, and neutered, they generally work it out. Sometimes,
as with dogs, you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through
feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). If you get
another cat - I would advise establishing your first cat as the dominant cat
in the house or yard. That sets the ground rules - and getting a kitten (or
a cat less than a year old - not necessarily a just weened kitten) is ideal.
Then they do look 'up' to the older cat.

Not sure what happened with answering someone's inquiry
straight-forward....but with most newsgroups, I've found this to be an
ongoing issue - it seems some of the posters need to establish 'dominance'
..... Just ignore the "troll"esque threads - and read the ones that stay on
topic to the post.

I hope this long-winded, albeit belated...post helps...

Sincerely,
Melissa

"Susan" > wrote in message
...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got
a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but
I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Melissa Powell
December 26th 03, 06:40 AM
Susan,

I'm new as well to this group...and while I don't let my cats out (big
city), I have no problem with other people doing it. Cats are the least
domesticated of the 'domestic' animals - and as Kipling said, (paraphrased)
"And she walked by herself." Ce la vie.

Anyway, back to the original question: I've had nine cats over the
years....generally I find that having a male, and then getting a female is
the way to go. Right now I have four cats: three males and a much older
female, who doesn't get along with anyone - her buddy, another female, died
recently...so she's hanging on her own - with me. Typically, if you have
more than two males there might be a dominance issue - but if they are
around the same age, and neutered, they generally work it out. Sometimes,
as with dogs, you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through
feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). If you get
another cat - I would advise establishing your first cat as the dominant cat
in the house or yard. That sets the ground rules - and getting a kitten (or
a cat less than a year old - not necessarily a just weened kitten) is ideal.
Then they do look 'up' to the older cat.

Not sure what happened with answering someone's inquiry
straight-forward....but with most newsgroups, I've found this to be an
ongoing issue - it seems some of the posters need to establish 'dominance'
..... Just ignore the "troll"esque threads - and read the ones that stay on
topic to the post.

I hope this long-winded, albeit belated...post helps...

Sincerely,
Melissa

"Susan" > wrote in message
...
> I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female, part
> Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we got
a
> 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right off
> the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot, but
I
> know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris thinks
> he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether it's
> better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Jellicoe
January 2nd 04, 10:10 AM
Sorry to go off the intended topic of this thread, but some of the
replies to the original post make me feel the need to speak up.
I have been signed up to the cats group for several months now, and
have often come across similar closed-minded criticism against cat
owners who let their pets go outside. Terms such as 'cruel' and
'uncaring' are used against these owners, with terms like 'safe' and
'happier' used to describe the life of an indoor cat. How about
'boring' and 'sedentary'? I believe it is unfair to keep any animal
confined to a small space. Seen the large cats pacing unhappily at the
zoo recently?

If given the choice themselves, how many cats do you think would
choose to live wholly indoors, and not want to explore and sniff
things and chase things outside? It is quite unrealistic to think that
an enquistive opportunistic predator like the domestic cat can be
mentally healthy while imprisioned.
My cat has a cat door, and can choose whether she wants to be in or
out. She let us know early on that she wanted to go outside, by trying
to get out the back door whenever we went out. I was initially nervous
when she went outside, but then when I saw how much happier she was
having the freedom to decide for herself where she wanted to be. Now I
could never keep her completely cooped up in the house.

I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
needs are more important, yours or theirs?

Jellicoe
January 2nd 04, 10:10 AM
Sorry to go off the intended topic of this thread, but some of the
replies to the original post make me feel the need to speak up.
I have been signed up to the cats group for several months now, and
have often come across similar closed-minded criticism against cat
owners who let their pets go outside. Terms such as 'cruel' and
'uncaring' are used against these owners, with terms like 'safe' and
'happier' used to describe the life of an indoor cat. How about
'boring' and 'sedentary'? I believe it is unfair to keep any animal
confined to a small space. Seen the large cats pacing unhappily at the
zoo recently?

If given the choice themselves, how many cats do you think would
choose to live wholly indoors, and not want to explore and sniff
things and chase things outside? It is quite unrealistic to think that
an enquistive opportunistic predator like the domestic cat can be
mentally healthy while imprisioned.
My cat has a cat door, and can choose whether she wants to be in or
out. She let us know early on that she wanted to go outside, by trying
to get out the back door whenever we went out. I was initially nervous
when she went outside, but then when I saw how much happier she was
having the freedom to decide for herself where she wanted to be. Now I
could never keep her completely cooped up in the house.

I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
needs are more important, yours or theirs?

Victor Martinez
January 2nd 04, 03:52 PM
Jellicoe wrote:
> I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
> that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
> needs are more important, yours or theirs?

I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
"bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 2nd 04, 03:52 PM
Jellicoe wrote:
> I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
> that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
> needs are more important, yours or theirs?

I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
"bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Hans Schrøder
January 2nd 04, 04:25 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
>
> I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
> Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
> lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
> cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
> that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
> If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
> home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
> "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.
>
Totally agreed, Victor.

Indoor cats may have a very rich, and not to mention long, and good life.
Most indoor cats live longer than outdoor cats, just because the are safe
from the mentioned dangers.

And they may have an even better life if they are two or more. I am out of
the house about 10 hours a day, and I know that my cats are happy with
eachother's company while I'm away, even if I suspect they spend most of the
time sleeping...

My cats are Devon Rex, and here in Norway it's better to prepare them to be
indoor cats all their lives. The winters are cold and snowy, and these cats,
skinny, with short and thin fur, would be in danger of freezing to death
within short time. In summer, they can get fatal sunburns when exposed to
the sun. So the solution then would be to let them out on April 25th and
September 15th, when the weather conditions could be suitable. :-)

--
Hans
It is about -10C (12.2F) cold today...

Hans Schrøder
January 2nd 04, 04:25 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
>
> I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
> Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
> lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
> cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
> that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
> If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
> home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
> "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.
>
Totally agreed, Victor.

Indoor cats may have a very rich, and not to mention long, and good life.
Most indoor cats live longer than outdoor cats, just because the are safe
from the mentioned dangers.

And they may have an even better life if they are two or more. I am out of
the house about 10 hours a day, and I know that my cats are happy with
eachother's company while I'm away, even if I suspect they spend most of the
time sleeping...

My cats are Devon Rex, and here in Norway it's better to prepare them to be
indoor cats all their lives. The winters are cold and snowy, and these cats,
skinny, with short and thin fur, would be in danger of freezing to death
within short time. In summer, they can get fatal sunburns when exposed to
the sun. So the solution then would be to let them out on April 25th and
September 15th, when the weather conditions could be suitable. :-)

--
Hans
It is about -10C (12.2F) cold today...

Ivor Jones
January 2nd 04, 06:51 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Jellicoe wrote:
> > I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
> > that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
> > needs are more important, yours or theirs?
>
> I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
> Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
> lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
> cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
> that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
> If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
> home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
> "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.

So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because
*you* choose to live in a city..?

Ivor

Ivor Jones
January 2nd 04, 06:51 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Jellicoe wrote:
> > I would rather not have an animal at all then keep it in conditions
> > that are more designed to meet my selfish needs than theirs. Whose
> > needs are more important, yours or theirs?
>
> I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> either. Sounds like a great place for cats!
> Not all of us live in such places. Some of us live in large cities, with
> lots of busy streets filled with cars. Guess who wins when a car meets a
> cat on the road? Others live where there are coyotes and other predators
> that would love to make a meal out of our loved cats.
> If you ever travel to Texas, give me a call. I would love to show you my
> home, with our 7 indoor-only cats. You can judge by yourself if they are
> "bored", "sedentary" or in any way unhappy.

So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because
*you* choose to live in a city..?

Ivor

Victor Martinez
January 2nd 04, 11:13 PM
Ivor Jones wrote:
> So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because
> *you* choose to live in a city..?

In case you are interested, there are papers out there done by
veterinary behaviorists that have determined that indoor-only cats are
as happy as indoor-outdoor cats. My cats are my family, and I provide
for them the absolute best. Indoor cats live longer, healthier lives.


--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 2nd 04, 11:13 PM
Ivor Jones wrote:
> So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them indoors just because
> *you* choose to live in a city..?

In case you are interested, there are papers out there done by
veterinary behaviorists that have determined that indoor-only cats are
as happy as indoor-outdoor cats. My cats are my family, and I provide
for them the absolute best. Indoor cats live longer, healthier lives.


--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Jellicoe
January 3rd 04, 01:23 AM
> > I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> > people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> > either. Sounds like a great place for cats!

Yes, we do have relatively few people in New Zealand, but most of
those that we do have are still concentrated in cities. There
certainly are places here where I would simply not have a cat because
of the risk of traffic. As I said before, under these circumstances
I'd rather not have a pet, or chose a pet better suited to being
trapped in a house all its life. Like mice or rats, and even rabbits
and guinea pigs can be kept indoors. Cats are too intelligent and too
inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
out through it?

As said by Ivor: "So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them
indoors just because *you* choose to live in a city..?"

Just because you live in an environment not suited for an animal
doesn't give you the right to keep it under sub-optimal conditions.
Just because you want a pet, it doesn't mean that you should have it.

Jellicoe
January 3rd 04, 01:23 AM
> > I see you live in New Zealand. Wonderful country, with very little
> > people and lots of room for cats to roam around safely. No predators
> > either. Sounds like a great place for cats!

Yes, we do have relatively few people in New Zealand, but most of
those that we do have are still concentrated in cities. There
certainly are places here where I would simply not have a cat because
of the risk of traffic. As I said before, under these circumstances
I'd rather not have a pet, or chose a pet better suited to being
trapped in a house all its life. Like mice or rats, and even rabbits
and guinea pigs can be kept indoors. Cats are too intelligent and too
inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
out through it?

As said by Ivor: "So do you think it fair on the cats to keep them
indoors just because *you* choose to live in a city..?"

Just because you live in an environment not suited for an animal
doesn't give you the right to keep it under sub-optimal conditions.
Just because you want a pet, it doesn't mean that you should have it.

Victor Martinez
January 3rd 04, 03:51 AM
Jellicoe wrote:
> inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
> any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
> cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
> choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
> out through it?

Xoxo, our oldest and former outdoors-only cat (we rescued him) has never
shown any desire to go outside. He's been out and he didn't like it one
bit. You see, it's much more comfortable inside.
I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research
out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their
indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth
to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 3rd 04, 03:51 AM
Jellicoe wrote:
> inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
> any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
> cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
> choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
> out through it?

Xoxo, our oldest and former outdoors-only cat (we rescued him) has never
shown any desire to go outside. He's been out and he didn't like it one
bit. You see, it's much more comfortable inside.
I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research
out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their
indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth
to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Orchid
January 3rd 04, 02:39 PM
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:51:10 GMT, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

>Jellicoe wrote:
>> inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
>> any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
>> cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
>> choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
>> out through it?

Sorry to piggyback, but my newsreader didn't get the OP.

I have two indoors-only cats that get to go outside on their
harnesses. While they love going outside, I can leave the door open
and they do not go out on their own. They sit at the threshold and
look out, but have no interest in leaving.



Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Orchid
January 3rd 04, 02:39 PM
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:51:10 GMT, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

>Jellicoe wrote:
>> inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
>> any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
>> cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
>> choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
>> out through it?

Sorry to piggyback, but my newsreader didn't get the OP.

I have two indoors-only cats that get to go outside on their
harnesses. While they love going outside, I can leave the door open
and they do not go out on their own. They sit at the threshold and
look out, but have no interest in leaving.



Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

~*Connie*~
January 3rd 04, 02:55 PM
Jellicoe,

If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain
there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't
particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean
moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a
neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds
of other evils out there in the world.

Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not
provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do
NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown
absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to.

~*Connie*~
January 3rd 04, 02:55 PM
Jellicoe,

If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain
there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't
particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean
moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a
neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds
of other evils out there in the world.

Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not
provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do
NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown
absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to.

Tracy
January 3rd 04, 05:58 PM
Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
ever, ever.

Tracy
January 3rd 04, 05:58 PM
Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
ever, ever.

Ivor Jones
January 3rd 04, 06:50 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Jellicoe wrote:
> > inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
> > any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
> > cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
> > choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
> > out through it?
>
> Xoxo, our oldest and former outdoors-only cat (we rescued him) has never
> shown any desire to go outside. He's been out and he didn't like it one
> bit. You see, it's much more comfortable inside.
> I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research
> out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their
> indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth
> to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you.

Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
presenting it wants it to prove.

I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
outside, you should not have one.

Ivor

Ivor Jones
January 3rd 04, 06:50 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Jellicoe wrote:
> > inquisitive to keep penned up like that. I still honestly believe that
> > any cat would be happier with the option to go outside, and that no
> > cat in the world would opt to stay permanantly indoors if given the
> > choice. If you leave your back door open, do your cats chose not to go
> > out through it?
>
> Xoxo, our oldest and former outdoors-only cat (we rescued him) has never
> shown any desire to go outside. He's been out and he didn't like it one
> bit. You see, it's much more comfortable inside.
> I see you chose to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research
> out there that proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their
> indoor-outdoor counterparts. Good for you. You keep repeating your truth
> to yourself and avoid any facts that might contradict you.

Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
presenting it wants it to prove.

I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
outside, you should not have one.

Ivor

Victor Martinez
January 3rd 04, 09:24 PM
Ivor Jones wrote:
> Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
> presenting it wants it to prove.

I take it your not a scientist. I am.

> I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
> it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> outside, you should not have one.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 3rd 04, 09:24 PM
Ivor Jones wrote:
> Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
> presenting it wants it to prove.

I take it your not a scientist. I am.

> I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
> it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> outside, you should not have one.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Ivor Jones
January 3rd 04, 10:32 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the
person
> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>
> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>
> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't
want
> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> > outside, you should not have one.
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

As are you to yours. I just feel sorry for all those cats worldwide
effectively kept prisoner for such opinions.

Ivor

Ivor Jones
January 3rd 04, 10:32 PM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the
person
> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>
> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>
> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't
want
> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> > outside, you should not have one.
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

As are you to yours. I just feel sorry for all those cats worldwide
effectively kept prisoner for such opinions.

Ivor

Luvskats00
January 4th 04, 04:59 AM
Ivor jones w/a phoney email address blankly utters

>I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
>pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
>it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
>outside, you should not have one.


Cats are he or she...never "it". Are you really saying that 3/4 of those people
who don't live as recluses should give up their cats? Are you familiar with the
current US vs European debate about indoor - outdoor cats? Do you know that
millions of people live in cities (urban areas) where there are millions of
cars (dangers: getting hit by cars/poisoning of leaking antifreeze) dogs
roaming outdoors (dangers: getting maimed or killed by large dogs) etc.?

Luvskats00
January 4th 04, 04:59 AM
Ivor jones w/a phoney email address blankly utters

>I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
>pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
>it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
>outside, you should not have one.


Cats are he or she...never "it". Are you really saying that 3/4 of those people
who don't live as recluses should give up their cats? Are you familiar with the
current US vs European debate about indoor - outdoor cats? Do you know that
millions of people live in cities (urban areas) where there are millions of
cars (dangers: getting hit by cars/poisoning of leaking antifreeze) dogs
roaming outdoors (dangers: getting maimed or killed by large dogs) etc.?

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 06:20 AM
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:10:03 UTC, (Jellicoe)
wrote:


>
> If given the choice themselves, how many cats do you think would
> choose to live wholly indoors, and not want to explore and sniff
> things and chase things outside? It is quite unrealistic to think that
> an enquistive opportunistic predator like the domestic cat can be
> mentally healthy while imprisioned.

Given the choice, how many cats would choose
being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 06:20 AM
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:10:03 UTC, (Jellicoe)
wrote:


>
> If given the choice themselves, how many cats do you think would
> choose to live wholly indoors, and not want to explore and sniff
> things and chase things outside? It is quite unrealistic to think that
> an enquistive opportunistic predator like the domestic cat can be
> mentally healthy while imprisioned.

Given the choice, how many cats would choose
being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 06:20 AM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>
> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>
> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> > outside, you should not have one.
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.
>
> Cheers.
>


He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 06:20 AM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>
> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>
> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
> > outside, you should not have one.
>
> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.
>
> Cheers.
>


He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one

LT

Jellicoe
January 4th 04, 06:30 AM
Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
counterparts"), my reply to your earlier post was written and
submitted before this reply regarding papers was posted by you.
Unfortunately, my posts seem to take several hours to actually come up
on the group. So I did not chose to "ignore" your statement, I had in
fact not yet read it.

But in reply to that now, I agree with Ivor: "Research is like
statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person presenting
it wants it to prove".

Research can always be biased if the scientist enters the research
with their mind already made up. Experiments can often be designed to
give one result over another, if the scientist wants their beliefs to
be supported.

> I take it your not a scientist. I am.

You claim to know more than him because you are a scientist, but
funnily enough so am I. And any good scientist would know that all
papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
salt.

As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed
to during their childhood and adolescence. Just like humans-who often
fear dogs if not exposed to them while growing up.

Jellicoe
January 4th 04, 06:30 AM
Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
counterparts"), my reply to your earlier post was written and
submitted before this reply regarding papers was posted by you.
Unfortunately, my posts seem to take several hours to actually come up
on the group. So I did not chose to "ignore" your statement, I had in
fact not yet read it.

But in reply to that now, I agree with Ivor: "Research is like
statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person presenting
it wants it to prove".

Research can always be biased if the scientist enters the research
with their mind already made up. Experiments can often be designed to
give one result over another, if the scientist wants their beliefs to
be supported.

> I take it your not a scientist. I am.

You claim to know more than him because you are a scientist, but
funnily enough so am I. And any good scientist would know that all
papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
salt.

As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed
to during their childhood and adolescence. Just like humans-who often
fear dogs if not exposed to them while growing up.

rangitotogirl
January 4th 04, 10:08 AM
>
> Given the choice, how many cats would choose
> being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
> by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?
>
> LT

Well that's getting a bit extreme. You could turn this around and say what
is the likelihood of this happening to you and your children. Do you choose
to stay indoors and keep your children wrapped up in cotton wool because you
might get hit by a bus or attacked and tortured by a weirdo or a dog. I'm
guessing that you would still want to live your life right and while you do
what you can to protect your kids you are not going to keep them shut up in
the house all day every day.

In my street our house is well off a very quiet road and the cats don't
venture up the driveway they stay within the section. The only dog in the
street is next door and gets on well with cats, he has to, he lives with two
of them. There's no coyotes in our country. Why would we starve our pets,
they can get inside and to their food whenever they want, and how many
weirdos out there would torture a cat. Just because you might live in a
street full of weirdos, coyotes and dogs doesn't mean everyone does, in fact
it would appear we live in a street full of cat lovers.

We have two cats, one is very much an indoor cat, she'll come outdoors when
we're outdoors and she loves rolling in the sun on a sunny day but most of
the time she'll remain indoors. Basically if I'm around that is where she
wants to be. Our other cat just loves being outdoors, there is just too
much to play with, e.g. leaves, lizards etc. There are no predators except
other cats (and the neighbours friendly dog that doesn't count and is shut
up in the yard anyway) and the cats in our neighbourhood are generally
reasonably social anyway. Although she comes in from time to time it goes
against her nature to be indoors for long periods of time and she might as
well be locked up in a cattery. It's not the sort of life I would wish on
her by any means. Cats are independent critters and need the life that works
best for them.

So yes, if there are lots of predators then it is appropriate to have indoor
cats but if you're going to assume that every cat faces hazards as soon as
they walk out a door then think again, it doesn't happen everywhere and you
shouldn't be assuming that it does.

And in answer to your question as to how many cats would choose being
outdoors and poisoned etc. Given the odds of that happening to our cats are
probably far smaller than the likelihood of a similar thing happening to me
and given that is pretty small also, and given that this doesn't stop me
from going out and living my life, I do believe they would also choose to be
outdoors when they choose to be.

rangitotogirl
January 4th 04, 10:08 AM
>
> Given the choice, how many cats would choose
> being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
> by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?
>
> LT

Well that's getting a bit extreme. You could turn this around and say what
is the likelihood of this happening to you and your children. Do you choose
to stay indoors and keep your children wrapped up in cotton wool because you
might get hit by a bus or attacked and tortured by a weirdo or a dog. I'm
guessing that you would still want to live your life right and while you do
what you can to protect your kids you are not going to keep them shut up in
the house all day every day.

In my street our house is well off a very quiet road and the cats don't
venture up the driveway they stay within the section. The only dog in the
street is next door and gets on well with cats, he has to, he lives with two
of them. There's no coyotes in our country. Why would we starve our pets,
they can get inside and to their food whenever they want, and how many
weirdos out there would torture a cat. Just because you might live in a
street full of weirdos, coyotes and dogs doesn't mean everyone does, in fact
it would appear we live in a street full of cat lovers.

We have two cats, one is very much an indoor cat, she'll come outdoors when
we're outdoors and she loves rolling in the sun on a sunny day but most of
the time she'll remain indoors. Basically if I'm around that is where she
wants to be. Our other cat just loves being outdoors, there is just too
much to play with, e.g. leaves, lizards etc. There are no predators except
other cats (and the neighbours friendly dog that doesn't count and is shut
up in the yard anyway) and the cats in our neighbourhood are generally
reasonably social anyway. Although she comes in from time to time it goes
against her nature to be indoors for long periods of time and she might as
well be locked up in a cattery. It's not the sort of life I would wish on
her by any means. Cats are independent critters and need the life that works
best for them.

So yes, if there are lots of predators then it is appropriate to have indoor
cats but if you're going to assume that every cat faces hazards as soon as
they walk out a door then think again, it doesn't happen everywhere and you
shouldn't be assuming that it does.

And in answer to your question as to how many cats would choose being
outdoors and poisoned etc. Given the odds of that happening to our cats are
probably far smaller than the likelihood of a similar thing happening to me
and given that is pretty small also, and given that this doesn't stop me
from going out and living my life, I do believe they would also choose to be
outdoors when they choose to be.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:25 AM
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:55:35 GMT, "~*Connie*~" > wrote:

>Jellicoe,
>
>If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain
>there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't
>particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean
>moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a
>neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds
>of other evils out there in the world.
>
>Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not
>provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do
>NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown
>absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to.
>
If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:25 AM
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:55:35 GMT, "~*Connie*~" > wrote:

>Jellicoe,
>
>If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain
>there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't
>particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean
>moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a
>neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds
>of other evils out there in the world.
>
>Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not
>provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do
>NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown
>absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to.
>
If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:30 AM
On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:

>Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
>managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
>problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
>urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
>always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
>regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
>they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
>to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
>bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
>ever, ever.

I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
quality of life.

--
Bob.

1 cat + 1 revolving door to garden + 1 dynamo = Free energy.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:30 AM
On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:

>Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
>managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
>problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
>urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
>always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
>regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
>they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
>to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
>bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
>ever, ever.

I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
quality of life.

--
Bob.

1 cat + 1 revolving door to garden + 1 dynamo = Free energy.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:41 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 06:20:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez >
>wrote:
>
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
>> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>>
>> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>>
>> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
>> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
>> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
>> > outside, you should not have one.
>>
>> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>
>
>He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one
>
>LT
Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:41 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 06:20:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez >
>wrote:
>
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> > Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
>> > presenting it wants it to prove.
>>
>> I take it your not a scientist. I am.
>>
>> > I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
>> > pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
>> > it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
>> > outside, you should not have one.
>>
>> You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>
>
>He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one
>
>LT
Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:42 AM
On 3 Jan 2004 22:30:29 -0800, (Jellicoe) wrote:

>Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
>to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
>proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
>counterparts"),

Liar!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:42 AM
On 3 Jan 2004 22:30:29 -0800, (Jellicoe) wrote:

>Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
>to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
>proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
>counterparts"),

Liar!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Victor Martinez
January 4th 04, 01:35 PM
Jellicoe wrote:
> papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
> papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
> myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
> and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
> salt.

Absolutely! Go read them. All written by the best animal behaviorists
both in the US and abroad. I have yet to see one arriving at the
opposite conclusion though.

> As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
> all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
> out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed

One of them used to live outdoors before we rescued him. He's the one
that seem to be the least interested in going out.
For a while we tried the leashes for giving them walkies, but they
didn't enjoy it that much.
We have a pack of very healthy, clean, happy cats. They are sweethearts
that do not have any destructive behaviors (a telltale sign of a
disgruntled cat). They are extremely outgoing, active, and loving. Our
vet thinks they are the sweetest, best behaved cats she's ever met.
I think we're doing a good job raising them, and I expect to live with
them for many, many years.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 4th 04, 01:35 PM
Jellicoe wrote:
> papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
> papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
> myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
> and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
> salt.

Absolutely! Go read them. All written by the best animal behaviorists
both in the US and abroad. I have yet to see one arriving at the
opposite conclusion though.

> As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
> all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
> out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed

One of them used to live outdoors before we rescued him. He's the one
that seem to be the least interested in going out.
For a while we tried the leashes for giving them walkies, but they
didn't enjoy it that much.
We have a pack of very healthy, clean, happy cats. They are sweethearts
that do not have any destructive behaviors (a telltale sign of a
disgruntled cat). They are extremely outgoing, active, and loving. Our
vet thinks they are the sweetest, best behaved cats she's ever met.
I think we're doing a good job raising them, and I expect to live with
them for many, many years.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:29 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:08:57 UTC, "rangitotogirl"
> wrote:

> >
> > Given the choice, how many cats would choose
> > being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
> > by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?
> >
> > LT
>
> Well that's getting a bit extreme. You could turn this around and say what
> is the likelihood of this happening to you and your children. Do you choose
> to stay indoors and keep your children wrapped up in cotton wool because you
> might get hit by a bus or attacked and tortured by a weirdo or a dog. I'm
> guessing that you would still want to live your life right and while you do
> what you can to protect your kids you are not going to keep them shut up in
> the house all day every day.
>
> In my street our house is well off a very quiet road and the cats don't
> venture up the driveway they stay within the section. The only dog in the
> street is next door and gets on well with cats, he has to, he lives with two
> of them. There's no coyotes in our country. Why would we starve our pets,
> they can get inside and to their food whenever they want, and how many
> weirdos out there would torture a cat. Just because you might live in a
> street full of weirdos, coyotes and dogs doesn't mean everyone does, in fact
> it would appear we live in a street full of cat lovers.
>
> We have two cats, one is very much an indoor cat, she'll come outdoors when
> we're outdoors and she loves rolling in the sun on a sunny day but most of
> the time she'll remain indoors. Basically if I'm around that is where she
> wants to be. Our other cat just loves being outdoors, there is just too
> much to play with, e.g. leaves, lizards etc. There are no predators except
> other cats (and the neighbours friendly dog that doesn't count and is shut
> up in the yard anyway) and the cats in our neighbourhood are generally
> reasonably social anyway. Although she comes in from time to time it goes
> against her nature to be indoors for long periods of time and she might as
> well be locked up in a cattery. It's not the sort of life I would wish on
> her by any means. Cats are independent critters and need the life that works
> best for them.
>
> So yes, if there are lots of predators then it is appropriate to have indoor
> cats but if you're going to assume that every cat faces hazards as soon as
> they walk out a door then think again, it doesn't happen everywhere and you
> shouldn't be assuming that it does.
>
> And in answer to your question as to how many cats would choose being
> outdoors and poisoned etc. Given the odds of that happening to our cats are
> probably far smaller than the likelihood of a similar thing happening to me
> and given that is pretty small also, and given that this doesn't stop me
> from going out and living my life, I do believe they would also choose to be
> outdoors when they choose to be.
>

It happens where I live and I live in a small town in Florida.
And I have seen coyotes on the sidewalk in front of my house
at night. And cats have disappeared here to be found in pieces
or electrocuted and disected.

It happens. Even in quiet "safe" places.

Outdoor cats also bring home parasites and fleas, get into
fights and get wounded and infected.

YOU can go outdoors and live your live. But when you take in an animal
you owe it its safety because you've taken away some of its power to
prtect itself by domesticating it.

You are big enough and strong enough and loud enough to avoid
cars and posoning etc.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:29 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:08:57 UTC, "rangitotogirl"
> wrote:

> >
> > Given the choice, how many cats would choose
> > being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
> > by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?
> >
> > LT
>
> Well that's getting a bit extreme. You could turn this around and say what
> is the likelihood of this happening to you and your children. Do you choose
> to stay indoors and keep your children wrapped up in cotton wool because you
> might get hit by a bus or attacked and tortured by a weirdo or a dog. I'm
> guessing that you would still want to live your life right and while you do
> what you can to protect your kids you are not going to keep them shut up in
> the house all day every day.
>
> In my street our house is well off a very quiet road and the cats don't
> venture up the driveway they stay within the section. The only dog in the
> street is next door and gets on well with cats, he has to, he lives with two
> of them. There's no coyotes in our country. Why would we starve our pets,
> they can get inside and to their food whenever they want, and how many
> weirdos out there would torture a cat. Just because you might live in a
> street full of weirdos, coyotes and dogs doesn't mean everyone does, in fact
> it would appear we live in a street full of cat lovers.
>
> We have two cats, one is very much an indoor cat, she'll come outdoors when
> we're outdoors and she loves rolling in the sun on a sunny day but most of
> the time she'll remain indoors. Basically if I'm around that is where she
> wants to be. Our other cat just loves being outdoors, there is just too
> much to play with, e.g. leaves, lizards etc. There are no predators except
> other cats (and the neighbours friendly dog that doesn't count and is shut
> up in the yard anyway) and the cats in our neighbourhood are generally
> reasonably social anyway. Although she comes in from time to time it goes
> against her nature to be indoors for long periods of time and she might as
> well be locked up in a cattery. It's not the sort of life I would wish on
> her by any means. Cats are independent critters and need the life that works
> best for them.
>
> So yes, if there are lots of predators then it is appropriate to have indoor
> cats but if you're going to assume that every cat faces hazards as soon as
> they walk out a door then think again, it doesn't happen everywhere and you
> shouldn't be assuming that it does.
>
> And in answer to your question as to how many cats would choose being
> outdoors and poisoned etc. Given the odds of that happening to our cats are
> probably far smaller than the likelihood of a similar thing happening to me
> and given that is pretty small also, and given that this doesn't stop me
> from going out and living my life, I do believe they would also choose to be
> outdoors when they choose to be.
>

It happens where I live and I live in a small town in Florida.
And I have seen coyotes on the sidewalk in front of my house
at night. And cats have disappeared here to be found in pieces
or electrocuted and disected.

It happens. Even in quiet "safe" places.

Outdoor cats also bring home parasites and fleas, get into
fights and get wounded and infected.

YOU can go outdoors and live your live. But when you take in an animal
you owe it its safety because you've taken away some of its power to
prtect itself by domesticating it.

You are big enough and strong enough and loud enough to avoid
cars and posoning etc.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:29 PM
Your answering machine is stuck on you.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:29 PM
Your answering machine is stuck on you.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:30 PM
> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> cruel, selfish, or both.
>

Stupid troll.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:30 PM
> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> cruel, selfish, or both.
>

Stupid troll.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:31 PM
> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> quality of life.
>

Stupid troll.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 02:31 PM
> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> quality of life.
>

Stupid troll.

LT

hotep
January 4th 04, 03:49 PM
In alt.pets.cats Ivor Jones > wrote:

: I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
: pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
: it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
: outside, you should not have one.



If a cat always did what it pleased, it sure would never be neutered.

Aren't there several breeds that are domesticated to the point that
they can't/won't defend themselves from other cats outside?

hotep
January 4th 04, 03:49 PM
In alt.pets.cats Ivor Jones > wrote:

: I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
: pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
: it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
: outside, you should not have one.



If a cat always did what it pleased, it sure would never be neutered.

Aren't there several breeds that are domesticated to the point that
they can't/won't defend themselves from other cats outside?

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:46 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>Your answering machine is stuck on you.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:46 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>Your answering machine is stuck on you.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:47 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
>> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
>> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
>> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
>> quality of life.
>>
>
>Stupid troll.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:47 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
>> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
>> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
>> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
>> quality of life.
>>
>
>Stupid troll.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:47 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> cruel, selfish, or both.
>>
>
>Stupid troll.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Bob Brenchley.
January 4th 04, 11:47 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> cruel, selfish, or both.
>>
>
>Stupid troll.
>
>LT

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 11:55 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:46:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >Your answering machine is stuck on you.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!

Yawn.

LT


--

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 11:55 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:46:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >Your answering machine is stuck on you.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!

Yawn.

LT


--

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 11:56 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> >> quality of life.
> >>
> >
> >Stupid troll.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!
>

Yawn.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 4th 04, 11:56 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> >> quality of life.
> >>
> >
> >Stupid troll.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!
>

Yawn.

LT

Hans Schrøder
January 5th 04, 02:18 AM
"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >>
> >
> >Stupid troll.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!
>
> --
> Bob.
>
> The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
> summed up in one word -- YOU.

With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!

Hans
(and his two indoor cats)

Hans Schrøder
January 5th 04, 02:18 AM
"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
> >>
> >
> >Stupid troll.
> >
> >LT
>
> Stupid Troll!
>
> --
> Bob.
>
> The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
> summed up in one word -- YOU.

With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!

Hans
(and his two indoor cats)

Starlord
January 5th 04, 03:36 AM
1st of all, I live in the High Mojave Desert and very offen I see the cats out
here end up on the bottom of the foodchain or they become road kill.

2nd, my cats are show cats and are worth $$$, which means they stay inside and
they are just as happy too.

I lay down on the couch to watch tv and the two in my living room area jump up
and stay with my.

I've had the door open when moving something in or out of my trailer and they
stay on the couch and don't care to even try to come out. I've taken my male
outside to show to someone and he's not happy being out, he wants back inside,
where it's safe, and he gets fed.

There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
hear the car coming.


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Ad World
http://adworld.netfirms.com

"Jellicoe" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry to go off the intended topic of this thread, but some of the
> replies to the original post make me feel the need to speak up.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04

Starlord
January 5th 04, 03:36 AM
1st of all, I live in the High Mojave Desert and very offen I see the cats out
here end up on the bottom of the foodchain or they become road kill.

2nd, my cats are show cats and are worth $$$, which means they stay inside and
they are just as happy too.

I lay down on the couch to watch tv and the two in my living room area jump up
and stay with my.

I've had the door open when moving something in or out of my trailer and they
stay on the couch and don't care to even try to come out. I've taken my male
outside to show to someone and he's not happy being out, he wants back inside,
where it's safe, and he gets fed.

There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
hear the car coming.


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Ad World
http://adworld.netfirms.com

"Jellicoe" > wrote in message
om...
> Sorry to go off the intended topic of this thread, but some of the
> replies to the original post make me feel the need to speak up.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04

Tina Laitinen
January 5th 04, 04:12 AM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> > >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> > >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> > >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> > >> quality of life.
> > >>
> > >
> > >Stupid troll.
> > >
> > >LT
> >
> > Stupid Troll!
> >
>
> Yawn.
>
> LT
>

TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!

Tina

Tina Laitinen
January 5th 04, 04:12 AM
"Linda Terrell" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> > >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> > >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> > >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> > >> quality of life.
> > >>
> > >
> > >Stupid troll.
> > >
> > >LT
> >
> > Stupid Troll!
> >
>
> Yawn.
>
> LT
>

TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!

Tina

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:19 PM
> >
> > Yawn.
> >
> > LT
> >
>
> TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!
>
> Tina
>
Ja think? Benchley has been savaging people in the newsgroup for
years.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:19 PM
> >
> > Yawn.
> >
> > LT
> >
>
> TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!
>
> Tina
>
Ja think? Benchley has been savaging people in the newsgroup for
years.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:20 PM
> > Bob.
> >
> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>
> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!
>
> Hans
> (and his two indoor cats)
>

Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.

LT


--

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:20 PM
> > Bob.
> >
> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>
> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!
>
> Hans
> (and his two indoor cats)
>

Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.

LT


--

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:24 PM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:02 UTC, "Starlord" >
wrote:

> There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
> her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
> hear the car coming.
>
>

>
> SIAR

Benchley will just tell you that you shouldn't even
have cats but the deaf cat died "happy" because she
was outdoors and being "free" to be run down by a car.

LT

Linda Terrell
January 5th 04, 01:24 PM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:02 UTC, "Starlord" >
wrote:

> There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
> her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
> hear the car coming.
>
>

>
> SIAR

Benchley will just tell you that you shouldn't even
have cats but the deaf cat died "happy" because she
was outdoors and being "free" to be run down by a car.

LT

---MIKE---
January 5th 04, 01:58 PM
My first cat (Ike) came to me at the age of nine (?). He had been an
outside cat and really fussed to get out. I let him, even though I knew
it was an unsafe area (dense woods with predators). He had an abscess
from some kind of bite and a few weeks later, he disappeared one
morning. He lasted five years. Amber and Tiger have never been out.
Tiger looks longingly through the window at chipmunks but doesn't fuss
to get out. Amber couldn't care less.


-MIKE

---MIKE---
January 5th 04, 01:58 PM
My first cat (Ike) came to me at the age of nine (?). He had been an
outside cat and really fussed to get out. I let him, even though I knew
it was an unsafe area (dense woods with predators). He had an abscess
from some kind of bite and a few weeks later, he disappeared one
morning. He lasted five years. Amber and Tiger have never been out.
Tiger looks longingly through the window at chipmunks but doesn't fuss
to get out. Amber couldn't care less.


-MIKE

Joe Cadwallader
January 5th 04, 05:17 PM
<you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through
feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.).

Thats all fine and dandy, but how do you establish which one gets to be the
first target?

"Melissa Powell" > wrote in message
...
> Susan,
>
> I'm new as well to this group...and while I don't let my cats out (big
> city), I have no problem with other people doing it. Cats are the least
> domesticated of the 'domestic' animals - and as Kipling said,
(paraphrased)
> "And she walked by herself." Ce la vie.
>
> Anyway, back to the original question: I've had nine cats over the
> years....generally I find that having a male, and then getting a female is
> the way to go. Right now I have four cats: three males and a much older
> female, who doesn't get along with anyone - her buddy, another female,
died
> recently...so she's hanging on her own - with me. Typically, if you have
> more than two males there might be a dominance issue - but if they are
> around the same age, and neutered, they generally work it out. Sometimes,
> as with dogs, you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 -
through
> feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). If you get
> another cat - I would advise establishing your first cat as the dominant
cat
> in the house or yard. That sets the ground rules - and getting a kitten
(or
> a cat less than a year old - not necessarily a just weened kitten) is
ideal.
> Then they do look 'up' to the older cat.
>
> Not sure what happened with answering someone's inquiry
> straight-forward....but with most newsgroups, I've found this to be an
> ongoing issue - it seems some of the posters need to establish 'dominance'
> .... Just ignore the "troll"esque threads - and read the ones that stay
on
> topic to the post.
>
> I hope this long-winded, albeit belated...post helps...
>
> Sincerely,
> Melissa
>
> "Susan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> > Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> > shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we
got
> a
> > 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> > the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot,
but
> I
> > know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> > ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris
thinks
> > he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> > disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> > really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>

Joe Cadwallader
January 5th 04, 05:17 PM
<you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 - through
feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.).

Thats all fine and dandy, but how do you establish which one gets to be the
first target?

"Melissa Powell" > wrote in message
...
> Susan,
>
> I'm new as well to this group...and while I don't let my cats out (big
> city), I have no problem with other people doing it. Cats are the least
> domesticated of the 'domestic' animals - and as Kipling said,
(paraphrased)
> "And she walked by herself." Ce la vie.
>
> Anyway, back to the original question: I've had nine cats over the
> years....generally I find that having a male, and then getting a female is
> the way to go. Right now I have four cats: three males and a much older
> female, who doesn't get along with anyone - her buddy, another female,
died
> recently...so she's hanging on her own - with me. Typically, if you have
> more than two males there might be a dominance issue - but if they are
> around the same age, and neutered, they generally work it out. Sometimes,
> as with dogs, you can establish who you want to be No. 1 and No. 2 -
through
> feeding, grooming, and playing priority (no. 1 first, etc.). If you get
> another cat - I would advise establishing your first cat as the dominant
cat
> in the house or yard. That sets the ground rules - and getting a kitten
(or
> a cat less than a year old - not necessarily a just weened kitten) is
ideal.
> Then they do look 'up' to the older cat.
>
> Not sure what happened with answering someone's inquiry
> straight-forward....but with most newsgroups, I've found this to be an
> ongoing issue - it seems some of the posters need to establish 'dominance'
> .... Just ignore the "troll"esque threads - and read the ones that stay
on
> topic to the post.
>
> I hope this long-winded, albeit belated...post helps...
>
> Sincerely,
> Melissa
>
> "Susan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am a brand new subscriber and have a question - we have had cats for
> > years, but never 2 until last year when we adopted a year old female,
part
> > Russian Blue, after having to put down our 18 year old cat. She was a
> > shelter cat and had free run of the shelter, so she was lonely and we
got
> a
> > 4 month old male a couple of months later. He was very dominant right
off
> > the bat and ambushed her constantly. They got along and played alot,
but
> I
> > know there were times when she was not at all happy with the constant
> > ambushing. We also have 2 Labrador Retrievers and I believe Morris
thinks
> > he's a dog and gets along famously with them. Anyway, the female cat
> > disappeared about 2 months ago. Morris is about a year old now and he's
> > really lonely. We're going to adopt another, but I'm curious whether
it's
> > better to have 2 cats of the same sex or doesn't it matter if they are
> > neutered to begin with. Any thoughts? Susan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:38 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:55:16 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:46:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Your answering machine is stuck on you.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>
>Yawn.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:38 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:55:16 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:46:04 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:29:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Your answering machine is stuck on you.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>
>Yawn.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:36:02 -0800, "Starlord" >
wrote:

>1st of all, I live in the High Mojave Desert and very offen I see the cats out
>here end up on the bottom of the foodchain or they become road kill.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>2nd, my cats are show cats and are worth $$$, which means they stay inside and
>they are just as happy too.

Animal abuser.
>
>I lay down on the couch to watch tv and the two in my living room area jump up
>and stay with my.
>
>I've had the door open when moving something in or out of my trailer and they
>stay on the couch and don't care to even try to come out.

A clear sign of an abused animal. Some of us are prepared to spend
weeks or even months rehabilitating poor abused cats like yours.

>I've taken my male
>outside to show to someone and he's not happy being out, he wants back inside,
>where it's safe, and he gets fed.
>
>There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
>her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
>hear the car coming.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:24:22 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:02 UTC, "Starlord" >
>wrote:
>
>> There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
>> her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
>> hear the car coming.
>>
>>
>
>>
>> SIAR
>
>Benchley will just tell you that you shouldn't even
>have cats but the deaf cat died "happy" because she
>was outdoors and being "free" to be run down by a car.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:19:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >
>> > Yawn.
>> >
>> > LT
>> >
>>
>> TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!
>>
>> Tina
>>
>Ja think? Benchley has been savaging people in the newsgroup for
>years.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:56:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
>> >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
>> >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
>> >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
>> >> quality of life.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>>
>
>Yawn.
>
>LT

Very stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:36:02 -0800, "Starlord" >
wrote:

>1st of all, I live in the High Mojave Desert and very offen I see the cats out
>here end up on the bottom of the foodchain or they become road kill.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>2nd, my cats are show cats and are worth $$$, which means they stay inside and
>they are just as happy too.

Animal abuser.
>
>I lay down on the couch to watch tv and the two in my living room area jump up
>and stay with my.
>
>I've had the door open when moving something in or out of my trailer and they
>stay on the couch and don't care to even try to come out.

A clear sign of an abused animal. Some of us are prepared to spend
weeks or even months rehabilitating poor abused cats like yours.

>I've taken my male
>outside to show to someone and he's not happy being out, he wants back inside,
>where it's safe, and he gets fed.
>
>There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
>her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
>hear the car coming.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:24:22 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:36:02 UTC, "Starlord" >
>wrote:
>
>> There was a guy living in trailer #11 who had a deft white cat, he always let
>> her run around, right up to the day she became roadkill because she couldn't
>> hear the car coming.
>>
>>
>
>>
>> SIAR
>
>Benchley will just tell you that you shouldn't even
>have cats but the deaf cat died "happy" because she
>was outdoors and being "free" to be run down by a car.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:19:56 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>
>> >
>> > Yawn.
>> >
>> > LT
>> >
>>
>> TROLLLLLL.... TROOOLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP.... TROOLLLLLL!!!!
>>
>> Tina
>>
>Ja think? Benchley has been savaging people in the newsgroup for
>years.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:56:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:20 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:31:35 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
>> >> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
>> >> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
>> >> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
>> >> quality of life.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>>
>
>Yawn.
>
>LT

Very stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:18:36 +0100, "Hans Schrøder"
> wrote:

>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>>
>> --
>> Bob.
>>
>> The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
>> summed up in one word -- YOU.
>
>With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!

Heaven forbid - I'm a cat lover and would not have an animal abuser
like her anywhere near me.
>
>Hans
>(and his two indoor cats)
>
Ah! Another animal abuser.

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:18:36 +0100, "Hans Schrøder"
> wrote:

>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
>> >> allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
>> >> day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
>> >> a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
>> >> cruel, selfish, or both.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Stupid troll.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Stupid Troll!
>>
>> --
>> Bob.
>>
>> The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
>> summed up in one word -- YOU.
>
>With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!

Heaven forbid - I'm a cat lover and would not have an animal abuser
like her anywhere near me.
>
>Hans
>(and his two indoor cats)
>
Ah! Another animal abuser.

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> > Bob.
>> >
>> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
>> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>>
>> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!
>>
>> Hans
>> (and his two indoor cats)
>>
>
>Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:43 AM
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> wrote:

>> > Bob.
>> >
>> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
>> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>>
>> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right away!
>>
>> Hans
>> (and his two indoor cats)
>>
>
>Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
>
>LT

Do shut up you stupid troll.

--
Bob.

I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:45 AM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:58:51 -0500 (EST),
(---MIKE---) wrote:

>My first cat (Ike) came to me at the age of nine (?). He had been an
>outside cat and really fussed to get out. I let him, even though I knew
>it was an unsafe area (dense woods with predators). He had an abscess
>from some kind of bite and a few weeks later, he disappeared one
>morning. He lasted five years. Amber and Tiger have never been out.
>Tiger looks longingly through the window at chipmunks but doesn't fuss
>to get out. Amber couldn't care less.
>

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 02:45 AM
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:58:51 -0500 (EST),
(---MIKE---) wrote:

>My first cat (Ike) came to me at the age of nine (?). He had been an
>outside cat and really fussed to get out. I let him, even though I knew
>it was an unsafe area (dense woods with predators). He had an abscess
>from some kind of bite and a few weeks later, he disappeared one
>morning. He lasted five years. Amber and Tiger have never been out.
>Tiger looks longingly through the window at chipmunks but doesn't fuss
>to get out. Amber couldn't care less.
>

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Tina Laitinen
January 6th 04, 03:07 AM
"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> > Bob.
> >> >
> >> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can
be
> >> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
> >>
> >> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right
away!
> >>
> >> Hans
> >> (and his two indoor cats)
> >>
> >
> >Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
> >
> >LT
>
> Do shut up you stupid troll.
>
> --
> Bob.
>
> I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

TROLLLLLLLL
TROLLLLLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP
TROOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Just though you'd like to know
(faints)

Tina

Tina Laitinen
January 6th 04, 03:07 AM
"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
> > wrote:
>
> >> > Bob.
> >> >
> >> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can
be
> >> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
> >>
> >> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right
away!
> >>
> >> Hans
> >> (and his two indoor cats)
> >>
> >
> >Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
> >
> >LT
>
> Do shut up you stupid troll.
>
> --
> Bob.
>
> I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...

TROLLLLLLLL
TROLLLLLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP
TROOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Just though you'd like to know
(faints)

Tina

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 06:24 PM
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:07:10 GMT, "Tina Laitinen"
> wrote:

>
>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > Bob.
>> >> >
>> >> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can
>be
>> >> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>> >>
>> >> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right
>away!
>> >>
>> >> Hans
>> >> (and his two indoor cats)
>> >>
>> >
>> >Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Do shut up you stupid troll.
>>
>> --
>> Bob.
>>
>> I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...
>
>TROLLLLLLLL
>TROLLLLLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP
>TROOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>
>Just though you'd like to know
>(faints)
>
>Tina
>
We know Linda Terrell is a troll who promotes animal abuse - I've
already pointed it out. There really was no need for you to jump in
and point it out yourself as well.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Bob Brenchley.
January 6th 04, 06:24 PM
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:07:10 GMT, "Tina Laitinen"
> wrote:

>
>"Bob Brenchley." > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:20:39 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > Bob.
>> >> >
>> >> > The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can
>be
>> >> > summed up in one word -- YOU.
>> >>
>> >> With such a creative conversation you could as well get married right
>away!
>> >>
>> >> Hans
>> >> (and his two indoor cats)
>> >>
>> >
>> >Nah, my cats would never let Benchley in the house.
>> >
>> >LT
>>
>> Do shut up you stupid troll.
>>
>> --
>> Bob.
>>
>> I read your mind, and believe me, it was a short story...
>
>TROLLLLLLLL
>TROLLLLLLLLLL IN THE NEWSGROUP
>TROOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>
>Just though you'd like to know
>(faints)
>
>Tina
>
We know Linda Terrell is a troll who promotes animal abuse - I've
already pointed it out. There really was no need for you to jump in
and point it out yourself as well.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.

Tropical Tim
January 7th 04, 05:07 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>

> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

In your opinion. In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
and other animals to play with. They don't have to worry about getting
run over by humans or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
parasites like fleas, worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
to outside cats.

Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
some veal..baby cow?

Do you eat unborn chickens? Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
stuff don't you?
After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.

If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
worst sense.

What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
crap.
> >
> >I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
> >they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
> >to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
> >bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
> >ever, ever.
>
> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> quality of life.

Tropical Tim
January 7th 04, 05:07 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>

> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

In your opinion. In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
and other animals to play with. They don't have to worry about getting
run over by humans or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
parasites like fleas, worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
to outside cats.

Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
some veal..baby cow?

Do you eat unborn chickens? Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
stuff don't you?
After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.

If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
worst sense.

What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
crap.
> >
> >I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
> >they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
> >to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
> >bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
> >ever, ever.
>
> I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
> fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
> 24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
> going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
> quality of life.

Bob Brenchley.
January 7th 04, 09:44 PM
On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>>
>
>> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>In your opinion.

No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
cat experts.

>In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
>a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
>and other animals to play with.

Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
have time outside.

> They don't have to worry about getting
>run over by humans

That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.

> or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people

Both, thankfully, VERY rare.

>who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
>parasites like fleas,

No, even indoor only cats get fleas.

> worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
>diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
>not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
>twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
>to outside cats.

No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.
>
>Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
>then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
>some veal..baby cow?

Leather and wool are byproducts, wool does not even result in the
death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.

However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
animals - their quality of life is important.
>
>Do you eat unborn chickens?

No.

> Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
>eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
>stuff don't you?

No they are not.

>After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
>eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
>be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
>
>If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
>animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
>worst sense.

Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
cruel.

Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.
>
>What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
>crap.

Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
just life in prison.

I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
are being cruel, selfish, or both.

I think you posts prove you are both.

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

Bob Brenchley.
January 7th 04, 09:44 PM
On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>>
>
>> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>In your opinion.

No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
cat experts.

>In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
>a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
>and other animals to play with.

Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
have time outside.

> They don't have to worry about getting
>run over by humans

That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.

> or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people

Both, thankfully, VERY rare.

>who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
>parasites like fleas,

No, even indoor only cats get fleas.

> worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
>diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
>not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
>twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
>to outside cats.

No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.
>
>Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
>then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
>some veal..baby cow?

Leather and wool are byproducts, wool does not even result in the
death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.

However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
animals - their quality of life is important.
>
>Do you eat unborn chickens?

No.

> Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
>eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
>stuff don't you?

No they are not.

>After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
>eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
>be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
>
>If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
>animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
>worst sense.

Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
cruel.

Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.
>
>What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
>crap.

Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
just life in prison.

I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
are being cruel, selfish, or both.

I think you posts prove you are both.

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

Tropical Tim
January 8th 04, 05:29 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
> wrote:
>
> >Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> >> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
> >>
>
> >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
> >
> >In your opinion.
>
> No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
> cat experts.

No it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. I will give you
the actual information.

"Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on
average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years
or longer."

Everyone on the group can go to:
http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1726
and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and
Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats. I see that
your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US
both surpass your backwards little island in technology. No wonder
your empire is now so tiny.
>
> >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
> >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
> >and other animals to play with.
>
> Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
> have time outside.

No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such
a thing as "outside" until it experiences it. It's not part of any
domesticated felines basics. The instinctual flight or fright coding
that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a
memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You
can't miss what you have never experienced.
>
> > They don't have to worry about getting
> >run over by humans
>
> That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
> it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.

In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet
cat to ever go outside without careful consideration. Your fantasy of
the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy.
>
> > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
>
> Both, thankfully, VERY rare.

Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again.
>
> >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
> >parasites like fleas,
>
> No, even indoor only cats get fleas.

I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea
problem. Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans
bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them.
>
> > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
> >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
> >not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
> >twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
> >to outside cats.
>
> No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
> easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
> expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.

What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk.

> >
> >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
> >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
> >some veal..baby cow?
>
> Leather and wool are byproducts,

Byproducts? You are really in la la land buddy. Do you think that
leather is only harvested from cows that die from old age? You think
that scaring a sheep out of it's mind, flipping it around and shaving
all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the
sheep? Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the
butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are
ground into a paste of flesh that you stick into your mouth?

wool does not even result in the
> death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.

Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok?
Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there
are lots of others".
You talk out of both sides of your mouth man.
>
> However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
> animals - their quality of life is important.

Bull****! Start talking to the people who provide you with your nasty
flesh eating supply of murdered animals. Go to a slauter house. See
how fair it is then.
> >
> >Do you eat unborn chickens?
>
> No.

You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar.
>
> > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
> >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
> >stuff don't you?
>
> No they are not.

You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of
breads and cakes?
>
> >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
> >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
> >be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
> >
> >If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
> >animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
> >worst sense.
>
> Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
> as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
> cruel.

It's not cruel because bobby wants to eat the flesh of animals. Yeah
right!
How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh
and call it humane?

You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your
sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just
before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to
eat like a caveman.
>
> Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.

NO IT'S NOT!
To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go
out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel. You
are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british
head and try to educate yourself into the correct century.
> >
> >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
> >crap.
>
> Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
> animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
> just life in prison.
>
> I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
> unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
> time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
> cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
> are being cruel, selfish, or both.
>
> I think you posts prove you are both.

I don't care what a perverted flesh eater like you thinks of how I
treat animals. Hell man, you eat them. You condone the murder of
millions of animals each day.

It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel,
selfish, or both.

Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

Tropical Tim
January 8th 04, 05:29 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
> wrote:
>
> >Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
> >> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
> >>
>
> >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
> >
> >In your opinion.
>
> No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
> cat experts.

No it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. I will give you
the actual information.

"Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on
average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years
or longer."

Everyone on the group can go to:
http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1726
and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and
Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats. I see that
your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US
both surpass your backwards little island in technology. No wonder
your empire is now so tiny.
>
> >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
> >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
> >and other animals to play with.
>
> Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
> have time outside.

No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such
a thing as "outside" until it experiences it. It's not part of any
domesticated felines basics. The instinctual flight or fright coding
that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a
memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You
can't miss what you have never experienced.
>
> > They don't have to worry about getting
> >run over by humans
>
> That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
> it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.

In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet
cat to ever go outside without careful consideration. Your fantasy of
the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy.
>
> > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
>
> Both, thankfully, VERY rare.

Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again.
>
> >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
> >parasites like fleas,
>
> No, even indoor only cats get fleas.

I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea
problem. Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans
bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them.
>
> > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
> >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
> >not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
> >twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
> >to outside cats.
>
> No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
> easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
> expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.

What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk.

> >
> >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
> >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
> >some veal..baby cow?
>
> Leather and wool are byproducts,

Byproducts? You are really in la la land buddy. Do you think that
leather is only harvested from cows that die from old age? You think
that scaring a sheep out of it's mind, flipping it around and shaving
all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the
sheep? Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the
butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are
ground into a paste of flesh that you stick into your mouth?

wool does not even result in the
> death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.

Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok?
Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there
are lots of others".
You talk out of both sides of your mouth man.
>
> However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
> animals - their quality of life is important.

Bull****! Start talking to the people who provide you with your nasty
flesh eating supply of murdered animals. Go to a slauter house. See
how fair it is then.
> >
> >Do you eat unborn chickens?
>
> No.

You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar.
>
> > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
> >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
> >stuff don't you?
>
> No they are not.

You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of
breads and cakes?
>
> >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
> >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
> >be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
> >
> >If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
> >animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
> >worst sense.
>
> Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
> as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
> cruel.

It's not cruel because bobby wants to eat the flesh of animals. Yeah
right!
How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh
and call it humane?

You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your
sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just
before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to
eat like a caveman.
>
> Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.

NO IT'S NOT!
To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go
out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel. You
are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british
head and try to educate yourself into the correct century.
> >
> >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
> >crap.
>
> Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
> animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
> just life in prison.
>
> I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
> unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
> time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
> cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
> are being cruel, selfish, or both.
>
> I think you posts prove you are both.

I don't care what a perverted flesh eater like you thinks of how I
treat animals. Hell man, you eat them. You condone the murder of
millions of animals each day.

It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel,
selfish, or both.

Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

Tropical Tim
January 8th 04, 06:09 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...

> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

Mousekateers Cattery,
(http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/4114/kittens.html), sells cats and
kittens to indoor homes only!

Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
unusual for them to live to 20 years.

Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:

They get hit by cars
They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)
They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their
coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances
They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper
They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms,
roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites
They are abused by mentally deranged people
They become lost or are stolen
Some end up in the pound and are euthanized

Tropical Tim
January 8th 04, 06:09 PM
Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...

> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

Mousekateers Cattery,
(http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/4114/kittens.html), sells cats and
kittens to indoor homes only!

Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
unusual for them to live to 20 years.

Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:

They get hit by cars
They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)
They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their
coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances
They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper
They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms,
roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites
They are abused by mentally deranged people
They become lost or are stolen
Some end up in the pound and are euthanized

Tina Laitinen
January 8th 04, 09:09 PM
(snipped Everything it was dumb)

Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are
here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows
are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their
here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill
gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur?
Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat.
The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot.
People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you
think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they
grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other
people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled
environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats ,
some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember
that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated
them.

That's my piece.

Tina

Tina Laitinen
January 8th 04, 09:09 PM
(snipped Everything it was dumb)

Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are
here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows
are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their
here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill
gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur?
Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat.
The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot.
People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you
think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they
grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other
people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled
environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats ,
some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember
that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated
them.

That's my piece.

Tina

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:06 PM
On 8 Jan 2004 09:29:32 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> >> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>> >
>> >In your opinion.
>>
>> No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
>> cat experts.
>
>No it isn't.

Yes it is.

> You don't know what you're talking about.

Having spent over 40 years with cats I can ignore your false opinion.

> I will give you
>the actual information.
>
>"Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on
>average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years
>or longer."
>
>Everyone on the group can go to:
>http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1726
>and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and
>Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats.

Only 1200? There are 10 times more than that who promote another form
of abuse - declawing.

Come back when you have some credible experts - American vets are
mostly money grabbing animal killers.

> I see that
>your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US
>both surpass your backwards little island in technology.

Hohohohoho!

> No wonder
>your empire is now so tiny.

We don't have an Empire, we have a Commonwealth of Nations which
includes Canada.
>>
>> >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
>> >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
>> >and other animals to play with.
>>
>> Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
>> have time outside.
>
>No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such
>a thing as "outside" until it experiences it.


I'm sure you think you are making a point there - but you fail. Do you
believe that children should be kept indoors 24/7? Or maybe that women
should not be allowed the freedom to roam?

> It's not part of any
>domesticated felines basics.

You seem to labour under a major misconception there moron. The is NO
difference, not even a little tiny difference, between your so-called
"domesticated feline" and it wild ancestor.

> The instinctual flight or fright coding
>that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a
>memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You
>can't miss what you have never experienced.

Animals, including humans, do - because it is part of our nature.
>>
>> > They don't have to worry about getting
>> >run over by humans
>>
>> That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
>> it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.
>
>In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet
>cat to ever go outside without careful consideration.

Wrong. Apart from the USA there are very few parts of the world where
this falsehood has gained any hold. In the UK, and most of the rest of
Europe all but a tiny minority of cats get time outside during the
day. The majority of the world's cats prove you wrong - learn from
that.

>Your fantasy of
>the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy.
>>
>> > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
>>
>> Both, thankfully, VERY rare.
>
>Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again.

As I said, both, thankfully, VERY rare. About as rare as brain cells
in your head I think.
>>
>> >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
>> >parasites like fleas,
>>
>> No, even indoor only cats get fleas.
>
>I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea
>problem.

Liar.

>Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans
>bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them.

Liar!
>>
>> > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
>> >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
>> >not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
>> >twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
>> >to outside cats.
>>
>> No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
>> easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
>> expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.
>
>What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk.

Your "proof"???? Pull the other one moron.
>
>> >
>> >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
>> >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
>> >some veal..baby cow?
>>
>> Leather and wool are byproducts,
>
>Byproducts? You are really in la la land buddy. Do you think that
>leather is only harvested from cows that die from old age? You think
>that scaring a sheep out of it's mind, flipping it around and shaving
>all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the
>sheep?

Certainly not, I've helped do it on many pet sheep.

>Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the
>butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are
>ground into a paste of flesh that you stick into your mouth?
>
>wool does not even result in the
>> death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.
>
>Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok?

It is necessary for a proper diet. Man was not designed by millions of
years of evolution to be a vegetarian.

>Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there
>are lots of others".
>You talk out of both sides of your mouth man.

And you are stupid.
>>
>> However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
>> animals - their quality of life is important.
>
>Bull****! Start talking to the people who provide you with your nasty
>flesh eating supply of murdered animals. Go to a slauter house. See
>how fair it is then.
>> >
>> >Do you eat unborn chickens?
>>
>> No.
>
>You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar.

No. I'm allergic to eggs.
>>
>> > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
>> >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
>> >stuff don't you?
>>
>> No they are not.
>
>You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of
>breads and cakes?

Eggs are NOT used in the making of bread - where did you learn to
cook?
>>
>> >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
>> >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
>> >be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
>> >
>> >If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
>> >animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
>> >worst sense.
>>
>> Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
>> as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
>> cruel.
>
>It's not cruel because bobby wants to eat the flesh of animals. Yeah
>right!
>How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh
>and call it humane?

Very easy.
>
>You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your
>sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just
>before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to
>eat like a caveman.

I need to eat some meat to live - that is a fact of nature.
>>
>> Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.
>
>NO IT'S NOT!

Yes it is.

>To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go
>out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel.

It would be, if you live in such an area do not have cats.

However, in most areas there is not difference in the life expectancy
of a correctly kept indoor/outdoor cat, most live to a ripe old age.

> You
>are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british
>head and try to educate yourself into the correct century.

Unlike you I live in the 21st century - where we CARE for animals and
want to give them a PROPER life.
>> >
>> >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
>> >crap.
>>
>> Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
>> animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
>> just life in prison.
>>
>> I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
>> unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
>> time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
>> cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
>> are being cruel, selfish, or both.
>>
>> I think you posts prove you are both.
>
>I don't care what a perverted flesh eater like you thinks of how I
>treat animals. Hell man, you eat them. You condone the murder of
>millions of animals each day.
>
>It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel,
>selfish, or both.

Look, just for you, as you clearly are a moron with reading
difficulty, I'll spell it out one more time. Read it. Comprehend it.
Learn from it. Then stop abusing you cats sicko.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
>trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds rather like Tropical Tim.'

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:06 PM
On 8 Jan 2004 09:29:32 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> On 7 Jan 2004 09:07:09 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>> >> On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> >> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> >> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>> >
>> >In your opinion.
>>
>> No, not in my opinion - in the opinion of most of the world's leading
>> cat experts.
>
>No it isn't.

Yes it is.

> You don't know what you're talking about.

Having spent over 40 years with cats I can ignore your false opinion.

> I will give you
>the actual information.
>
>"Cats who live solely outdoors live about three to five years on
>average, while the average life expectancy of indoor cats is 14 years
>or longer."
>
>Everyone on the group can go to:
>http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1726
>and see the real data. Let's see, 1200 of the top vets in the US and
>Canada use a site that promotes inside living for cats.

Only 1200? There are 10 times more than that who promote another form
of abuse - declawing.

Come back when you have some credible experts - American vets are
mostly money grabbing animal killers.

> I see that
>your little island isn't mentioned. Oh, thats right, Canada and the US
>both surpass your backwards little island in technology.

Hohohohoho!

> No wonder
>your empire is now so tiny.

We don't have an Empire, we have a Commonwealth of Nations which
includes Canada.
>>
>> >In my opinion and millions of other cat owners, it's
>> >a blessing to a cat to have a nice comfortable home with loving people
>> >and other animals to play with.
>>
>> Of course it is - but it is also a basic necessity in a cat's life to
>> have time outside.
>
>No it isn't. A domesicated feline isn't even aware that there is such
>a thing as "outside" until it experiences it.


I'm sure you think you are making a point there - but you fail. Do you
believe that children should be kept indoors 24/7? Or maybe that women
should not be allowed the freedom to roam?

> It's not part of any
>domesticated felines basics.

You seem to labour under a major misconception there moron. The is NO
difference, not even a little tiny difference, between your so-called
"domesticated feline" and it wild ancestor.

> The instinctual flight or fright coding
>that is part of every animals brain functions does not include a
>memory of "Outside". Just the same as a television with a human. You
>can't miss what you have never experienced.

Animals, including humans, do - because it is part of our nature.
>>
>> > They don't have to worry about getting
>> >run over by humans
>>
>> That risk may be large in some areas, though not in most. Where it is
>> it would not be a suitable place to keep cats.
>
>In todays socity, it is no longer suitable or humane to allow a pet
>cat to ever go outside without careful consideration.

Wrong. Apart from the USA there are very few parts of the world where
this falsehood has gained any hold. In the UK, and most of the rest of
Europe all but a tiny minority of cats get time outside during the
day. The majority of the world's cats prove you wrong - learn from
that.

>Your fantasy of
>the "wild cat" as out of date as your monarchy.
>>
>> > or abused by human kids or aimed at by weird people
>>
>> Both, thankfully, VERY rare.
>
>Not rare at all. You don't know what you're talking about again.

As I said, both, thankfully, VERY rare. About as rare as brain cells
in your head I think.
>>
>> >who even brag about thier effort. They are protected from the
>> >parasites like fleas,
>>
>> No, even indoor only cats get fleas.
>
>I've had cats indoors only for 30 years and have never had any flea
>problem.

Liar.

>Of course, you have to treat your house so fleas that humans
>bring in will die. None of my cats have ever had a flea on them.

Liar!
>>
>> > worms and ticks. They can eat a strict, healthy
>> >diet without worrying about some butthead poisening them. And last but
>> >not least, it is a proven fact that a 24/7 inside cat will live almost
>> >twice as long as an outside cat because of the above mentioned dangers
>> >to outside cats.
>>
>> No it isn't. That is a blatant lie that can be disproved so very
>> easily. There is little, if indeed any, difference in the life
>> expectancy of an indoor only cat and an indoor/outdoor cat.
>
>What crap! You are the liar. I've shown my proof above. You just talk.

Your "proof"???? Pull the other one moron.
>
>> >
>> >Bob, do you wear leather? Wool? Do you eat animal flesh? If you do,
>> >then I say you are an animal abuser. When is the last time you ate
>> >some veal..baby cow?
>>
>> Leather and wool are byproducts,
>
>Byproducts? You are really in la la land buddy. Do you think that
>leather is only harvested from cows that die from old age? You think
>that scaring a sheep out of it's mind, flipping it around and shaving
>all of it's natual protection from it's body is not cruel to the
>sheep?

Certainly not, I've helped do it on many pet sheep.

>Where the hell do you get your idea of fairness, from the
>butcher shop where the corpses of perfectly happy living cows are
>ground into a paste of flesh that you stick into your mouth?
>
>wool does not even result in the
>> death of the animal. I eat very little meat and certainly not veal.
>
>Oh, so if you eat the flesh of just a few murdered animals it's ok?

It is necessary for a proper diet. Man was not designed by millions of
years of evolution to be a vegetarian.

>Thats like someone saying "Well, I only murdered a few people, there
>are lots of others".
>You talk out of both sides of your mouth man.

And you are stupid.
>>
>> However, in all cases I promote the correct housing and treatment of
>> animals - their quality of life is important.
>
>Bull****! Start talking to the people who provide you with your nasty
>flesh eating supply of murdered animals. Go to a slauter house. See
>how fair it is then.
>> >
>> >Do you eat unborn chickens?
>>
>> No.
>
>You've never eaten an egg huh? Liar.

No. I'm allergic to eggs.
>>
>> > Yeah, I bet you do. Thats discusting. You
>> >eat bread? You do know that unborn chickens are used in that nasty
>> >stuff don't you?
>>
>> No they are not.
>
>You are too stupid to realize that eggs are used in the processing of
>breads and cakes?

Eggs are NOT used in the making of bread - where did you learn to
cook?
>>
>> >After seeing your waistline, I can imagine how many deserts you've
>> >eaten with the massive amounts of milk that was intended by nature to
>> >be eaten by the little veal producers you call supper.
>> >
>> >If you are not a strict vegitarian and do not use or consume ANY
>> >animal parts, then you are a hypocrite and an animal abuser in the
>> >worst sense.
>>
>> Not at all. While it is sad that animals dies to feed people, as long
>> as they are kept in suitable conditions and killed humanely it is not
>> cruel.
>
>It's not cruel because bobby wants to eat the flesh of animals. Yeah
>right!
>How can one KILL an animal for the sole purpose of eating it's flesh
>and call it humane?

Very easy.
>
>You are as perverted as anyone who is a flesh eater. You justify your
>sick cravings as being normal. Like I said, go to a slauter house just
>before your next meal of hot cooked flesh and see if you still want to
>eat like a caveman.

I need to eat some meat to live - that is a fact of nature.
>>
>> Keeping a cat indoors 24/7 is CRUEL.
>
>NO IT'S NOT!

Yes it is.

>To shorten their happy little lives by two thirds by letting them go
>out into the world that humans have made into a cesspool is cruel.

It would be, if you live in such an area do not have cats.

However, in most areas there is not difference in the life expectancy
of a correctly kept indoor/outdoor cat, most live to a ripe old age.

> You
>are cruel. Stop it! Take the crown off of your stupid little british
>head and try to educate yourself into the correct century.

Unlike you I live in the 21st century - where we CARE for animals and
want to give them a PROPER life.
>> >
>> >What makes cats the only creature you protect? You are so full of
>> >crap.
>>
>> Cat are NOT the only creature I protect - In some ways I even protect
>> animal abusers like you as I do not believe in the death penalty -
>> just life in prison.
>>
>> I repeat. If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel
>> unable to allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some
>> time each day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a
>> cat. To have a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you
>> are being cruel, selfish, or both.
>>
>> I think you posts prove you are both.
>
>I don't care what a perverted flesh eater like you thinks of how I
>treat animals. Hell man, you eat them. You condone the murder of
>millions of animals each day.
>
>It is NEVER ok to let your cat outside. To do so are being cruel,
>selfish, or both.

Look, just for you, as you clearly are a moron with reading
difficulty, I'll spell it out one more time. Read it. Comprehend it.
Learn from it. Then stop abusing you cats sicko.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.
>
>Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
>trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

--
Bob.

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a
suitable rock to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds
its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any more...so it
eats it. Sounds rather like Tropical Tim.'

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:15 PM
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:09:42 GMT, "Tina Laitinen"
> wrote:

>
>
>(snipped Everything it was dumb)
>
>Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are
>here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows
>are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their
>here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill
>gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur?
>Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat.
>The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot.
>People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you
>think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they
>grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other
>people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled
>environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats ,
>some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember
>that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated
>them.
>
>That's my piece.
>
>Tina
>
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a need to bring a
non-existant omnipotent being into the picture.

It is true that we don't need very much meat. Between 2 and 15
million years of evolution have developed man as an omnivore. We
cannot live a healthy life on just vegetables alone, nor can we live
on just meat alone. We need both to live a long and healthy life.

Cat need time outside, with the freedom to roam. The need to be part
of nature and to interact with other cats as they are highly social
animals. You cannot take any animal, including man, and divorce him
from his nature without side effects.

--
Bob.

A cat without claws is the result of a vet without scruples and an
owner without low.

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:15 PM
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:09:42 GMT, "Tina Laitinen"
> wrote:

>
>
>(snipped Everything it was dumb)
>
>Okay why do you think god put all these animals on earth? To eat. Cows are
>here to eat. Chickens are here to eat and give us eggs. Do you think cows
>are here to deplete the ozone layer with their farty gas? Is that why their
>here? If you want to fight something how about extinction? People kill
>gorrila's for bush meat. Or how about people killing tiger's for their fur?
>Why not let people be people and not get on their backs about eating meat.
>The sheep need to be sheared in the summer otherwise they get to hot.
>People long ago figured that out. What about the vegtables you eat. Do you
>think they like to be eaten? They probably have feelings to you know they
>grow. Just go on what you believe and stop trying to push it on other
>people. It's okay to let your cat outside as long as it's in a controled
>environment. Some people build cat cages, some leash train their cats ,
>some who have big properties let them out to roam. You have to remember
>that cats used to be wild before the Egyptians took em in and domesticated
>them.
>
>That's my piece.
>
>Tina
>
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a need to bring a
non-existant omnipotent being into the picture.

It is true that we don't need very much meat. Between 2 and 15
million years of evolution have developed man as an omnivore. We
cannot live a healthy life on just vegetables alone, nor can we live
on just meat alone. We need both to live a long and healthy life.

Cat need time outside, with the freedom to roam. The need to be part
of nature and to interact with other cats as they are highly social
animals. You cannot take any animal, including man, and divorce him
from his nature without side effects.

--
Bob.

A cat without claws is the result of a vet without scruples and an
owner without low.

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:23 PM
On 8 Jan 2004 10:09:21 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>
>> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>Mousekateers Cattery,
>(http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/4114/kittens.html), sells cats and
>kittens to indoor homes only!
>
>Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
>unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
>Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:


Hohohohohohoho!
>
>They get hit by cars

It does happen, though it is not that common. If it is a major risk in
your are then do not have cats.

>They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)

Oh dear - not another one falling for those old tales.

>They are poisoned by eating toxic plants,

Nope. A cat that grows up with nature does not do that.

>licking antifreeze off their
>coats,

Nope - in most countries antifreeze is pet (and child) safe. You
should get your country to pass laws to that effect.

> or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances

Like?

>They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
>aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper

True, but they are less at risk with a properly developed immune
system - something an indoor only cat does not have.

>They can become infected with feline heart worm,

Not in most of the world.

> tapeworms,
>roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites

All of which are easy to prevent.

>They are abused by mentally deranged people

Rare - VERY rare.

>They become lost

Most lost cats are indoor only ones that escape and then can't cope.

> or are stolen

Why would anyone want to steal a cat?

>Some end up in the pound and are euthanized

Not in civilized countries.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Bob Brenchley.
January 8th 04, 10:23 PM
On 8 Jan 2004 10:09:21 -0800, (Tropical Tim)
wrote:

>Bob Brenchley. > wrote in message >...
>
>> There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
>> There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.
>
>Mousekateers Cattery,
>(http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/4114/kittens.html), sells cats and
>kittens to indoor homes only!
>
>Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
>unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
>Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:


Hohohohohohoho!
>
>They get hit by cars

It does happen, though it is not that common. If it is a major risk in
your are then do not have cats.

>They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)

Oh dear - not another one falling for those old tales.

>They are poisoned by eating toxic plants,

Nope. A cat that grows up with nature does not do that.

>licking antifreeze off their
>coats,

Nope - in most countries antifreeze is pet (and child) safe. You
should get your country to pass laws to that effect.

> or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances

Like?

>They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
>aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper

True, but they are less at risk with a properly developed immune
system - something an indoor only cat does not have.

>They can become infected with feline heart worm,

Not in most of the world.

> tapeworms,
>roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites

All of which are easy to prevent.

>They are abused by mentally deranged people

Rare - VERY rare.

>They become lost

Most lost cats are indoor only ones that escape and then can't cope.

> or are stolen

Why would anyone want to steal a cat?

>Some end up in the pound and are euthanized

Not in civilized countries.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

Jellicoe
January 9th 04, 01:20 AM
> Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
> unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
> Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:

I'm sorry, but that is simply not true.

Maybe in some areas the life expectancy is lower because the hazards
are so high, but then people in those areas shouldn't get cats. They
should get indoor pets like rats.

But in many places, the danger is not high, and the reward for
indoor/outdoor living far outweigh the dangers. My partner's last
indoor/outdoor cat lived for 18 years. My last one lived for 13, and
only died due to kidney failure (which was likely genetic, and not as
a result of any disease caught from being outside). Both cats were
healthy and happy all their lives.

And even if the life expectancy was a little less for indoor/outdoor
cats than for indoor cats (which I don't believe is true), what about
the quality of life? Would you want to spend your entire life without
leaving the house you live in? A lot of humans die younger than the
expected 70-80 years due to leaving the safety of their houses. Lets
look at your list for a minute:

> They get hit by cars
Large numbers of people die in traffic accidents in cars, in planes,
on bicycles, on motorbikes or even as pedestrians,

> They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)
Humans get attacked by plenty of wild animals, including bears,
sharks, snakes and crocodiles,

> They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their
> coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances
Humans get food poisoning which can kill you, and human children often
get sick from accidental consumption of poisonous substances kept in
garages,

> They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
> aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper
Again, humans get all sorts of infectious diseases off eachother, many
of which can kill you,

> They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms,
> roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites
Humans also suffer from many parasitic agents, often picked up when
out in the garden enjoying nature,

> They are abused by mentally deranged people
Humans die or suffer horribly all the time at the hands of eachother.

So by your logic, you should never leave the house either. So what I
want to know is, when are you and your cat planning on moving into
your sterile bubble together?

Jellicoe
January 9th 04, 01:20 AM
> Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
> unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
> Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:

I'm sorry, but that is simply not true.

Maybe in some areas the life expectancy is lower because the hazards
are so high, but then people in those areas shouldn't get cats. They
should get indoor pets like rats.

But in many places, the danger is not high, and the reward for
indoor/outdoor living far outweigh the dangers. My partner's last
indoor/outdoor cat lived for 18 years. My last one lived for 13, and
only died due to kidney failure (which was likely genetic, and not as
a result of any disease caught from being outside). Both cats were
healthy and happy all their lives.

And even if the life expectancy was a little less for indoor/outdoor
cats than for indoor cats (which I don't believe is true), what about
the quality of life? Would you want to spend your entire life without
leaving the house you live in? A lot of humans die younger than the
expected 70-80 years due to leaving the safety of their houses. Lets
look at your list for a minute:

> They get hit by cars
Large numbers of people die in traffic accidents in cars, in planes,
on bicycles, on motorbikes or even as pedestrians,

> They are eaten by dogs, coyotes, even owls (small kittens)
Humans get attacked by plenty of wild animals, including bears,
sharks, snakes and crocodiles,

> They are poisoned by eating toxic plants, licking antifreeze off their
> coats, or by getting into garages and eating toxic substances
Humans get food poisoning which can kill you, and human children often
get sick from accidental consumption of poisonous substances kept in
garages,

> They are exposed to deadly viruses such as feline leukemia, feline
> aids, herpes and calici respiratory viruses, or distemper
Again, humans get all sorts of infectious diseases off eachother, many
of which can kill you,

> They can become infected with feline heart worm, tapeworms,
> roundworms, body mites, fleas, and other contagious parasites
Humans also suffer from many parasitic agents, often picked up when
out in the garden enjoying nature,

> They are abused by mentally deranged people
Humans die or suffer horribly all the time at the hands of eachother.

So by your logic, you should never leave the house either. So what I
want to know is, when are you and your cat planning on moving into
your sterile bubble together?

Victor Martinez
January 9th 04, 03:29 AM
Tropical Tim wrote:
> Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
> trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe,
where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add
him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal
ratio in this group.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Victor Martinez
January 9th 04, 03:29 AM
Tropical Tim wrote:
> Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
> trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.

Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe,
where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add
him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal
ratio in this group.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

Tina Laitinen
January 9th 04, 05:57 AM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Tropical Tim wrote:
> > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
> > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.
>
> Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe,
> where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add
> him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal
> ratio in this group.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Victor Martinez
> Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
> Send your spam here:
> Email me here:

How do you do that.. Add someone to your kill file?

Tina

Tina Laitinen
January 9th 04, 05:57 AM
"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Tropical Tim wrote:
> > Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
> > trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.
>
> Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe,
> where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add
> him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal
> ratio in this group.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Victor Martinez
> Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
> Send your spam here:
> Email me here:

How do you do that.. Add someone to your kill file?

Tina

Tracy
January 9th 04, 09:10 AM
>
> Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
> unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
> Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:
>

As has been stated repeatedly, those statistics are inaccurate. The
1-3 year figure is for outdoor-all-the-time, unowned cats who do not
regularly see vetinarians. The statistics are as follows: 12-15 years
for indoor only cats,
8-10 years for owned indoor-outdoor cats, and 1-3 years for ferals. On
the average.

Tracy
January 9th 04, 09:10 AM
>
> Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years, but it is not
> unusual for them to live to 20 years.
>
> Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of only 1 to 3 years:
>

As has been stated repeatedly, those statistics are inaccurate. The
1-3 year figure is for outdoor-all-the-time, unowned cats who do not
regularly see vetinarians. The statistics are as follows: 12-15 years
for indoor only cats,
8-10 years for owned indoor-outdoor cats, and 1-3 years for ferals. On
the average.

Bob Brenchley.
January 9th 04, 10:19 AM
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 03:29:24 GMT, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

>Tropical Tim wrote:
>> Your posts show you to be ignorant, cruel, selfish and stupid. Stop
>> trying to convert decent people into your sick way of life.
>
>Stop trying to reason with this guy. He lives in a parallel universe,
>where facts are whatever he imagines. Most of us simply ignore him. Add
>him to your killfile, it will dramatically reduce the noise to signal
>ratio in this group.
>
>Cheers.

Stupid Troll!

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).