PDA

View Full Version : Tri colored cats all female?


dgk
October 14th 04, 09:12 PM
I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...

Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.

Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
was talking about. Does white count as a color?

Ted Davis
October 14th 04, 09:20 PM
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:12:40 -0400, dgk
> wrote:

>I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
>Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
>British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
>Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
>was talking about. Does white count as a color?

The male version of tourtose shell is red tabby - of calico is red
tabby and white. These colors are sex linked, though a tourtose shell
mated to a red tabby can produce red tabby females (I once had three
tamed feral red tabby and white sisters - there motehr was calico, and
they had an unusual white mark that matched that of the neighborhood
red tabby male).


T.E.D. )
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

Ted Davis
October 14th 04, 09:20 PM
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:12:40 -0400, dgk
> wrote:

>I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
>Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
>British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
>Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
>was talking about. Does white count as a color?

The male version of tourtose shell is red tabby - of calico is red
tabby and white. These colors are sex linked, though a tourtose shell
mated to a red tabby can produce red tabby females (I once had three
tamed feral red tabby and white sisters - there motehr was calico, and
they had an unusual white mark that matched that of the neighborhood
red tabby male).


T.E.D. )
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

kaeli
October 14th 04, 10:15 PM
In article >, sonicechoes-
enlightened us with...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?
>

TRUE tricolors [1] are almost always female because it requires 2 X
chromosomes. Male tricolors are therefore XXY.

See this for a pretty good explanation (and source of below quote):
http://www.fanciers.com/cat-faqs/tricolors.shtml


[1] "A true tricolor must have one of its colors derived from the red gene --
either red (orange) or cream (kind of a light, orangy beige, not unlike the
color many people call "ginger"). If it does not have one of these two
colors, it is not a true tricolor. The second color must be white, and the
third color must be black, blue (a blue-gray), chocolate, lilac (a pale rose-
beige), cinnamon, or fawn (a pale buff color). Black and blue are by far the
most common."

--
--
~kaeli~
Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your
soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck there.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 14th 04, 10:15 PM
In article >, sonicechoes-
enlightened us with...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?
>

TRUE tricolors [1] are almost always female because it requires 2 X
chromosomes. Male tricolors are therefore XXY.

See this for a pretty good explanation (and source of below quote):
http://www.fanciers.com/cat-faqs/tricolors.shtml


[1] "A true tricolor must have one of its colors derived from the red gene --
either red (orange) or cream (kind of a light, orangy beige, not unlike the
color many people call "ginger"). If it does not have one of these two
colors, it is not a true tricolor. The second color must be white, and the
third color must be black, blue (a blue-gray), chocolate, lilac (a pale rose-
beige), cinnamon, or fawn (a pale buff color). Black and blue are by far the
most common."

--
--
~kaeli~
Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your
soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck there.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Bobcat
October 14th 04, 10:19 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for
my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?

Tortoiseshell and tricolor (calicoin America) cats are almost always
female. The very few male exceptions -1 in approx 200, I've heard -
are almost invariably sterile, and it's genetic. Here's a convoluted
description of why. Lotsa luck reading it!
___________________

"The term tortoiseshell cat refers to a coloration pattern caused by a
combination of specific genetic traits. It is not a specific breed of
cat A cat breed is an infrasubspecific rank for the classification of
domestic cats. A cat is considered to be of a certain cat breed if it
is true breeding for the traits that define that breed. Only three
percent of owned cats belong to a cat breed, and an even smaller
percentage of those are suitable as show cats. A breeding certificate
proves that a cat belongs to a cat breed by showing the cat's pedigree
back to at least four generations. The whole concept of cat breeds is
a relatively new one. Two hundred years ago there was no such thing.
Today there are almost a hundred cat breeds. Varieties of domestic cat
can also be identified by characteristics other than breed. The
tortoiseshell markings appear in many different breeds.
The coats of tortoiseshell cats are a mixture of colours. It is often
reserved for cats with coats that look like black and orange patches,
while calico cat is typically two-thirds white, with orange and black
patches on their backs. Their coats may also combine red or ginger,
and occasionally silver or ginger tabby patterns. The size of the
patches can vary from a fine speckled pattern to large areas of
colour. Cats with a basic white colour and red and black patches are
known as tortoiseshell-and-white in Britain, or, in the United States,
calico.
Coat coloration in cats is complex. The genes involved include the
Orange gene, O, which in its dominant form, O, produces orange fur,
and in its recessive form, o, produces black fur.
For a cat to be calico, it must simultaneously express two genes, O
and o, which are located at the same location on the X chromosome A
sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the
development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most common
sex-determination systems in animals involve a genetic mechanism based
on the chromosomes of that organism. However, other systems can
involve other variables such as temperature. The details of some
sex-determination systems are not yet fully understood. Occasionally a
male is born. These have Klinefelter's syndrome Klinefelter's syndrome
is a condition caused by a chromosomal abnormality in males
(specifically, a nondisjunction); sufferers have a pair of X sex
chromosomes instead of just one. The XXY chromosome arrangement is a
common genetic abnormality, occurring as frequently as 1 in 1,000 male
births, but the symptoms that may result from having the extra
chromosome are less common. Because of this extra chromosome,
individuals with the abnormality are usually referred to as "XXY
Males" rather than as "suffering from Klinefelter's syndrome and are
almost always sterile."
_______________________

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Tortoiseshell%20cat

Aren't you glad you asked? <g>

Bobcat
October 14th 04, 10:19 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for
my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?

Tortoiseshell and tricolor (calicoin America) cats are almost always
female. The very few male exceptions -1 in approx 200, I've heard -
are almost invariably sterile, and it's genetic. Here's a convoluted
description of why. Lotsa luck reading it!
___________________

"The term tortoiseshell cat refers to a coloration pattern caused by a
combination of specific genetic traits. It is not a specific breed of
cat A cat breed is an infrasubspecific rank for the classification of
domestic cats. A cat is considered to be of a certain cat breed if it
is true breeding for the traits that define that breed. Only three
percent of owned cats belong to a cat breed, and an even smaller
percentage of those are suitable as show cats. A breeding certificate
proves that a cat belongs to a cat breed by showing the cat's pedigree
back to at least four generations. The whole concept of cat breeds is
a relatively new one. Two hundred years ago there was no such thing.
Today there are almost a hundred cat breeds. Varieties of domestic cat
can also be identified by characteristics other than breed. The
tortoiseshell markings appear in many different breeds.
The coats of tortoiseshell cats are a mixture of colours. It is often
reserved for cats with coats that look like black and orange patches,
while calico cat is typically two-thirds white, with orange and black
patches on their backs. Their coats may also combine red or ginger,
and occasionally silver or ginger tabby patterns. The size of the
patches can vary from a fine speckled pattern to large areas of
colour. Cats with a basic white colour and red and black patches are
known as tortoiseshell-and-white in Britain, or, in the United States,
calico.
Coat coloration in cats is complex. The genes involved include the
Orange gene, O, which in its dominant form, O, produces orange fur,
and in its recessive form, o, produces black fur.
For a cat to be calico, it must simultaneously express two genes, O
and o, which are located at the same location on the X chromosome A
sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the
development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most common
sex-determination systems in animals involve a genetic mechanism based
on the chromosomes of that organism. However, other systems can
involve other variables such as temperature. The details of some
sex-determination systems are not yet fully understood. Occasionally a
male is born. These have Klinefelter's syndrome Klinefelter's syndrome
is a condition caused by a chromosomal abnormality in males
(specifically, a nondisjunction); sufferers have a pair of X sex
chromosomes instead of just one. The XXY chromosome arrangement is a
common genetic abnormality, occurring as frequently as 1 in 1,000 male
births, but the symptoms that may result from having the extra
chromosome are less common. Because of this extra chromosome,
individuals with the abnormality are usually referred to as "XXY
Males" rather than as "suffering from Klinefelter's syndrome and are
almost always sterile."
_______________________

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Tortoiseshell%20cat

Aren't you glad you asked? <g>

Electric Nachos
October 14th 04, 10:48 PM
Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been known if
the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group got a
hold of them first.

Bobcat wrote in message ...
>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for
>my
>> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
>> was talking about. Does white count as a color?
>
>Tortoiseshell and tricolor (calicoin America) cats are almost always
>female. The very few male exceptions -1 in approx 200, I've heard -
>are almost invariably sterile, and it's genetic. Here's a convoluted
>description of why. Lotsa luck reading it!
>___________________
>
>"The term tortoiseshell cat refers to a coloration pattern caused by a
>combination of specific genetic traits. It is not a specific breed of
>cat A cat breed is an infrasubspecific rank for the classification of
>domestic cats. A cat is considered to be of a certain cat breed if it
>is true breeding for the traits that define that breed. Only three
>percent of owned cats belong to a cat breed, and an even smaller
>percentage of those are suitable as show cats. A breeding certificate
>proves that a cat belongs to a cat breed by showing the cat's pedigree
>back to at least four generations. The whole concept of cat breeds is
>a relatively new one. Two hundred years ago there was no such thing.
>Today there are almost a hundred cat breeds. Varieties of domestic cat
>can also be identified by characteristics other than breed. The
>tortoiseshell markings appear in many different breeds.
>The coats of tortoiseshell cats are a mixture of colours. It is often
>reserved for cats with coats that look like black and orange patches,
>while calico cat is typically two-thirds white, with orange and black
>patches on their backs. Their coats may also combine red or ginger,
>and occasionally silver or ginger tabby patterns. The size of the
>patches can vary from a fine speckled pattern to large areas of
>colour. Cats with a basic white colour and red and black patches are
>known as tortoiseshell-and-white in Britain, or, in the United States,
>calico.
>Coat coloration in cats is complex. The genes involved include the
>Orange gene, O, which in its dominant form, O, produces orange fur,
>and in its recessive form, o, produces black fur.
>For a cat to be calico, it must simultaneously express two genes, O
>and o, which are located at the same location on the X chromosome A
>sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the
>development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most common
>sex-determination systems in animals involve a genetic mechanism based
>on the chromosomes of that organism. However, other systems can
>involve other variables such as temperature. The details of some
>sex-determination systems are not yet fully understood. Occasionally a
>male is born. These have Klinefelter's syndrome Klinefelter's syndrome
>is a condition caused by a chromosomal abnormality in males
>(specifically, a nondisjunction); sufferers have a pair of X sex
>chromosomes instead of just one. The XXY chromosome arrangement is a
>common genetic abnormality, occurring as frequently as 1 in 1,000 male
>births, but the symptoms that may result from having the extra
>chromosome are less common. Because of this extra chromosome,
>individuals with the abnormality are usually referred to as "XXY
>Males" rather than as "suffering from Klinefelter's syndrome and are
>almost always sterile."
>_______________________
>
>http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Tortoiseshell%20cat
>
>Aren't you glad you asked? <g>
>
>

Electric Nachos
October 14th 04, 10:48 PM
Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been known if
the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group got a
hold of them first.

Bobcat wrote in message ...
>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for
>my
>> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
>> was talking about. Does white count as a color?
>
>Tortoiseshell and tricolor (calicoin America) cats are almost always
>female. The very few male exceptions -1 in approx 200, I've heard -
>are almost invariably sterile, and it's genetic. Here's a convoluted
>description of why. Lotsa luck reading it!
>___________________
>
>"The term tortoiseshell cat refers to a coloration pattern caused by a
>combination of specific genetic traits. It is not a specific breed of
>cat A cat breed is an infrasubspecific rank for the classification of
>domestic cats. A cat is considered to be of a certain cat breed if it
>is true breeding for the traits that define that breed. Only three
>percent of owned cats belong to a cat breed, and an even smaller
>percentage of those are suitable as show cats. A breeding certificate
>proves that a cat belongs to a cat breed by showing the cat's pedigree
>back to at least four generations. The whole concept of cat breeds is
>a relatively new one. Two hundred years ago there was no such thing.
>Today there are almost a hundred cat breeds. Varieties of domestic cat
>can also be identified by characteristics other than breed. The
>tortoiseshell markings appear in many different breeds.
>The coats of tortoiseshell cats are a mixture of colours. It is often
>reserved for cats with coats that look like black and orange patches,
>while calico cat is typically two-thirds white, with orange and black
>patches on their backs. Their coats may also combine red or ginger,
>and occasionally silver or ginger tabby patterns. The size of the
>patches can vary from a fine speckled pattern to large areas of
>colour. Cats with a basic white colour and red and black patches are
>known as tortoiseshell-and-white in Britain, or, in the United States,
>calico.
>Coat coloration in cats is complex. The genes involved include the
>Orange gene, O, which in its dominant form, O, produces orange fur,
>and in its recessive form, o, produces black fur.
>For a cat to be calico, it must simultaneously express two genes, O
>and o, which are located at the same location on the X chromosome A
>sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the
>development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most common
>sex-determination systems in animals involve a genetic mechanism based
>on the chromosomes of that organism. However, other systems can
>involve other variables such as temperature. The details of some
>sex-determination systems are not yet fully understood. Occasionally a
>male is born. These have Klinefelter's syndrome Klinefelter's syndrome
>is a condition caused by a chromosomal abnormality in males
>(specifically, a nondisjunction); sufferers have a pair of X sex
>chromosomes instead of just one. The XXY chromosome arrangement is a
>common genetic abnormality, occurring as frequently as 1 in 1,000 male
>births, but the symptoms that may result from having the extra
>chromosome are less common. Because of this extra chromosome,
>individuals with the abnormality are usually referred to as "XXY
>Males" rather than as "suffering from Klinefelter's syndrome and are
>almost always sterile."
>_______________________
>
>http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Tortoiseshell%20cat
>
>Aren't you glad you asked? <g>
>
>

Bobcat
October 15th 04, 12:52 PM
"Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
...
> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
known if
> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
got a
> hold of them first.

I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
no one did.

Bobcat
October 15th 04, 12:52 PM
"Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
...
> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
known if
> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
got a
> hold of them first.

I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
no one did.

Ted Davis
October 15th 04, 01:50 PM
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:52:49 -0400, "Bobcat"
> wrote:

>
>"Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
...
>> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
>known if
>> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
>got a
>> hold of them first.
>
>I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
>unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
>them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
>conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
>and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
>no one did.
>

One queen and one tom - live 15 years and have one litter of four
every year; each litter has two females. Assume all kittens survive
and live to age 15.

At the end of the first year, there are three females. At then end of
the second year there are nine females (three adult females and six
female kittens - plus the males equals 18 cats where there were two);
the end of the third year brings the total females to 27 and the total
cats to 54. When the original female dies after her fifteenth litter,
she leaves 14 348 906 female descendents - 28 697 812 counting the
males.

In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.



T.E.D. )
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

Ted Davis
October 15th 04, 01:50 PM
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:52:49 -0400, "Bobcat"
> wrote:

>
>"Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
...
>> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
>known if
>> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
>got a
>> hold of them first.
>
>I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
>unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
>them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
>conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
>and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
>no one did.
>

One queen and one tom - live 15 years and have one litter of four
every year; each litter has two females. Assume all kittens survive
and live to age 15.

At the end of the first year, there are three females. At then end of
the second year there are nine females (three adult females and six
female kittens - plus the males equals 18 cats where there were two);
the end of the third year brings the total females to 27 and the total
cats to 54. When the original female dies after her fifteenth litter,
she leaves 14 348 906 female descendents - 28 697 812 counting the
males.

In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.



T.E.D. )
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

Melissa
October 15th 04, 04:52 PM
dgk > wrote in message >...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?


Tortishells are almost always female. Male tortishells are almost
always sterile. There almost never is an always with animals.
They'll go out of their way to prove you wrong. Male tortishells are
almost always sterile because they need to have two X chromosomes to
provide the color. A male cat that is XXY is most often going to be
sterile. There are exceptions though. A male cat can have cells that
are XXY and have cells that are normal XY. These males can be
tortishells and not be sterile because they can make some normal
sperm. So it is possible, but not probable to have a non-sterile
tortishell.

Melissa
October 15th 04, 04:52 PM
dgk > wrote in message >...
> I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?


Tortishells are almost always female. Male tortishells are almost
always sterile. There almost never is an always with animals.
They'll go out of their way to prove you wrong. Male tortishells are
almost always sterile because they need to have two X chromosomes to
provide the color. A male cat that is XXY is most often going to be
sterile. There are exceptions though. A male cat can have cells that
are XXY and have cells that are normal XY. These males can be
tortishells and not be sterile because they can make some normal
sperm. So it is possible, but not probable to have a non-sterile
tortishell.

kaeli
October 15th 04, 05:13 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
>
> "Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
> known if
> > the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
> got a
> > hold of them first.
>
> I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
> unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
> them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
> conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
> and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
> no one did.
>
>
>

Troll alert:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=10mulerc9ccuq6b%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3D%2522electric%2Bnac hos%2522%2Bkittens%26btnG%3DSearch

Have fun. ;)

--
--
~kaeli~
Never argue with an idiot! People may not be able to tell
you apart.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 15th 04, 05:13 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
>
> "Electric Nachos" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been
> known if
> > the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
> got a
> > hold of them first.
>
> I can't stand to go into an animal control building where they house
> unwanted cats and kittens until they find homes for them, or euthanize
> them. The odds of the latter fate are high enough,even with
> conscientious cat-owners (you call us "animal mutilators") neutering
> and spaying their animals. Imagine the numbers of little tragedies if
> no one did.
>
>
>

Troll alert:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=10mulerc9ccuq6b%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3D%2522electric%2Bnac hos%2522%2Bkittens%26btnG%3DSearch

Have fun. ;)

--
--
~kaeli~
Never argue with an idiot! People may not be able to tell
you apart.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 15th 04, 05:17 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been known if
> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group got a
> hold of them first.

You're not the brightest bulb in the box, are you?

--
--
~kaeli~
Never argue with an idiot! People may not be able to tell
you apart.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 15th 04, 05:17 PM
In article >,
enlightened us with...
> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been known if
> the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group got a
> hold of them first.

You're not the brightest bulb in the box, are you?

--
--
~kaeli~
Never argue with an idiot! People may not be able to tell
you apart.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Cat Protector
October 15th 04, 06:24 PM
Interesting topic. I do think white counts as a color. Of course that is a
pretty bold statement to say that tri-color males are steral. There are
plenty of tri-colored cats out there that are male and unless you neuter
them they can father kittens. Of course you didn't mention what breed you
are talking about.

I entered my cat Icarus in the HHP category for a CFA cat show this
Saturday. When the clerk wanted to know his color, I emailed her a picture
of him. He has silver/black tabby markings but when I received my entry she
listed him as a brown classic tabby color. I guess this how a lot of tabby
colors get classified.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?

Cat Protector
October 15th 04, 06:24 PM
Interesting topic. I do think white counts as a color. Of course that is a
pretty bold statement to say that tri-color males are steral. There are
plenty of tri-colored cats out there that are male and unless you neuter
them they can father kittens. Of course you didn't mention what breed you
are talking about.

I entered my cat Icarus in the HHP category for a CFA cat show this
Saturday. When the clerk wanted to know his color, I emailed her a picture
of him. He has silver/black tabby markings but when I received my entry she
listed him as a brown classic tabby color. I guess this how a lot of tabby
colors get classified.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>I suppose I could check Google but I'm here so...
>
> Someone at the cat show said that all tri-color (or tri-colour for my
> British friends) cats are female, or, if male, are sterile.
>
> Seems odd but he was showing his purebreds so maybe he knew what he
> was talking about. Does white count as a color?

kaeli
October 15th 04, 07:09 PM
In article <[email protected]>,
enlightened us with...
> Interesting topic. I do think white counts as a color. Of course that is a
> pretty bold statement to say that tri-color males are steral. There are
> plenty of tri-colored cats out there that are male and unless you neuter
> them they can father kittens. Of course you didn't mention what breed you
> are talking about.
>

CP - a "true" tricolor, as defined by the cat breed people (whoever made them
boss of terms). Generically, a tortoiseshell or calico, with or without
white. Tabby and white doesn't qualify as a tricolor.

You know - the "logic" of science where they call something a term that isn't
entirely accurate. A "true" tricolor has two different expressions of the red
gene, which requires 2 X chromosomes. Any male expressing it therefore must
be XXY - an anomaly that renders all but 1 in 30 thousand (or some really
small number: see site I quoted in my other post) as incapable of producing
viable sperm. Thus, they are sterile.
Most human males who are XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) are also sterile.

Also note that calico and tortoiseshell cats do not have fathers of those
color patterns. The father is usually ginger or black. This is color
genetics. The mother is often calico and tortoiseshell though.

When you find a calico or tortoiseshell male that has sired kittens, let us
know. It'd be neat to see. It's very, very rare.

--
--
~kaeli~
The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and
three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals.
That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's
just that they need more supervision.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 15th 04, 07:09 PM
In article <[email protected]>,
enlightened us with...
> Interesting topic. I do think white counts as a color. Of course that is a
> pretty bold statement to say that tri-color males are steral. There are
> plenty of tri-colored cats out there that are male and unless you neuter
> them they can father kittens. Of course you didn't mention what breed you
> are talking about.
>

CP - a "true" tricolor, as defined by the cat breed people (whoever made them
boss of terms). Generically, a tortoiseshell or calico, with or without
white. Tabby and white doesn't qualify as a tricolor.

You know - the "logic" of science where they call something a term that isn't
entirely accurate. A "true" tricolor has two different expressions of the red
gene, which requires 2 X chromosomes. Any male expressing it therefore must
be XXY - an anomaly that renders all but 1 in 30 thousand (or some really
small number: see site I quoted in my other post) as incapable of producing
viable sperm. Thus, they are sterile.
Most human males who are XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) are also sterile.

Also note that calico and tortoiseshell cats do not have fathers of those
color patterns. The father is usually ginger or black. This is color
genetics. The mother is often calico and tortoiseshell though.

When you find a calico or tortoiseshell male that has sired kittens, let us
know. It'd be neat to see. It's very, very rare.

--
--
~kaeli~
The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and
three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals.
That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's
just that they need more supervision.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Cat Protector
October 15th 04, 07:22 PM
Shouldn;t white be considered? I think with the Japanese Bobtail they count
the white as a color. As for being sterile, the only proven meathod of proof
of steralization is by neutering.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> CP - a "true" tricolor, as defined by the cat breed people (whoever made
> them
> boss of terms). Generically, a tortoiseshell or calico, with or without
> white. Tabby and white doesn't qualify as a tricolor.
>
> You know - the "logic" of science where they call something a term that
> isn't
> entirely accurate. A "true" tricolor has two different expressions of the
> red
> gene, which requires 2 X chromosomes. Any male expressing it therefore
> must
> be XXY - an anomaly that renders all but 1 in 30 thousand (or some really
> small number: see site I quoted in my other post) as incapable of
> producing
> viable sperm. Thus, they are sterile.
> Most human males who are XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) are also sterile.
>
> Also note that calico and tortoiseshell cats do not have fathers of those
> color patterns. The father is usually ginger or black. This is color
> genetics. The mother is often calico and tortoiseshell though.
>
> When you find a calico or tortoiseshell male that has sired kittens, let
> us
> know. It'd be neat to see. It's very, very rare.
>
> --
> --
> ~kaeli~
> The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and
> three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals.
> That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's
> just that they need more supervision.
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
>

Cat Protector
October 15th 04, 07:22 PM
Shouldn;t white be considered? I think with the Japanese Bobtail they count
the white as a color. As for being sterile, the only proven meathod of proof
of steralization is by neutering.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kaeli" > wrote in message
...
> CP - a "true" tricolor, as defined by the cat breed people (whoever made
> them
> boss of terms). Generically, a tortoiseshell or calico, with or without
> white. Tabby and white doesn't qualify as a tricolor.
>
> You know - the "logic" of science where they call something a term that
> isn't
> entirely accurate. A "true" tricolor has two different expressions of the
> red
> gene, which requires 2 X chromosomes. Any male expressing it therefore
> must
> be XXY - an anomaly that renders all but 1 in 30 thousand (or some really
> small number: see site I quoted in my other post) as incapable of
> producing
> viable sperm. Thus, they are sterile.
> Most human males who are XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) are also sterile.
>
> Also note that calico and tortoiseshell cats do not have fathers of those
> color patterns. The father is usually ginger or black. This is color
> genetics. The mother is often calico and tortoiseshell though.
>
> When you find a calico or tortoiseshell male that has sired kittens, let
> us
> know. It'd be neat to see. It's very, very rare.
>
> --
> --
> ~kaeli~
> The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and
> three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals.
> That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's
> just that they need more supervision.
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
> http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
>

kaeli
October 15th 04, 09:20 PM
In article <[email protected]>,
enlightened us with...
> Shouldn;t white be considered? I think with the Japanese Bobtail they count
> the white as a color.

Well, they're talking about "tricolor" much like one talks about pinto
horses. Pinto horses aren't a breed, it's a color pattern. Tricolor doesn't
really mean any old 3 colors. It specifically means 2 shades from the red
gene and one from black. So you can get blue/tan "dilute" torties from this
as a tricolor.
As to the rest of the color patterns, white is a complimentary color or
alone. Such as tabby and white, calico and white (technically 4 colors, yet a
tricolor), and so on.

> As for being sterile, the only proven meathod of proof
> of steralization is by neutering.

People, and animals, can have problems with having babies. If sperm is not
viable, it can't fertilize an egg. The male tricolors make sperm, but the
sperm is usually badly deformed, dead, so to speak, and never makes it to the
female's egg. If it does, even then, it rarely fertilizes the egg.
Mules, the offspring of horses and donkeys, are always sterile as well. You
don't get a mule by breeding two mules.
There are many reasons why an animal, including a human, may be unable to
bear/produce young. Neutering is the only way of sterilizing a fertile
animal.


--
--
~kaeli~
He's your God, they're your rules - you burn in Hell.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

kaeli
October 15th 04, 09:20 PM
In article <[email protected]>,
enlightened us with...
> Shouldn;t white be considered? I think with the Japanese Bobtail they count
> the white as a color.

Well, they're talking about "tricolor" much like one talks about pinto
horses. Pinto horses aren't a breed, it's a color pattern. Tricolor doesn't
really mean any old 3 colors. It specifically means 2 shades from the red
gene and one from black. So you can get blue/tan "dilute" torties from this
as a tricolor.
As to the rest of the color patterns, white is a complimentary color or
alone. Such as tabby and white, calico and white (technically 4 colors, yet a
tricolor), and so on.

> As for being sterile, the only proven meathod of proof
> of steralization is by neutering.

People, and animals, can have problems with having babies. If sperm is not
viable, it can't fertilize an egg. The male tricolors make sperm, but the
sperm is usually badly deformed, dead, so to speak, and never makes it to the
female's egg. If it does, even then, it rarely fertilizes the egg.
Mules, the offspring of horses and donkeys, are always sterile as well. You
don't get a mule by breeding two mules.
There are many reasons why an animal, including a human, may be unable to
bear/produce young. Neutering is the only way of sterilizing a fertile
animal.


--
--
~kaeli~
He's your God, they're your rules - you burn in Hell.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Electric Nachos
October 16th 04, 01:01 AM
Ted Davis wrote in message ...

>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.

Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of surviving
without humans?

And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
were nomadic?

Imagine that.

CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care </choke>
MANipulations!

wow

>T.E.D. )

???

I *know* you from some other newsgroup...

R U a DOS Batcher?

>SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
>somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

Electric Nachos
October 16th 04, 01:01 AM
Ted Davis wrote in message ...

>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.

Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of surviving
without humans?

And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
were nomadic?

Imagine that.

CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care </choke>
MANipulations!

wow

>T.E.D. )

???

I *know* you from some other newsgroup...

R U a DOS Batcher?

>SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
>somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.

Ted Davis
October 16th 04, 01:12 AM
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0700, "Electric Nachos"
> wrote:

>
>Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>
>>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.
>
>Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of surviving
>without humans?
>
>And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
>were nomadic?
>
>Imagine that.
>
>CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care </choke>
>MANipulations!

Those that don't interact with humans obviously are not the topic of
this discussion. Those that depend on us for something, if only
garbage, are.

>???
>
>I *know* you from some other newsgroup...
>
>R U a DOS Batcher?

Yes. If you know me that well, you also know I bait trolls and other
obnoxious users for a round or two, then killfile them. I think it
time to killfile you.


--
T.E.D. )

Ted Davis
October 16th 04, 01:12 AM
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0700, "Electric Nachos"
> wrote:

>
>Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>
>>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.
>
>Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of surviving
>without humans?
>
>And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
>were nomadic?
>
>Imagine that.
>
>CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care </choke>
>MANipulations!

Those that don't interact with humans obviously are not the topic of
this discussion. Those that depend on us for something, if only
garbage, are.

>???
>
>I *know* you from some other newsgroup...
>
>R U a DOS Batcher?

Yes. If you know me that well, you also know I bait trolls and other
obnoxious users for a round or two, then killfile them. I think it
time to killfile you.


--
T.E.D. )

Electric Nachos
October 16th 04, 01:59 AM
Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0700, "Electric Nachos"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>>
>>>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>>>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>>>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>>>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>>>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.
>>
>>Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of
surviving
>>without humans?
>>
>>And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
>>were nomadic?
>>
>>Imagine that.
>>
>>CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care
</choke>
>>MANipulations!
>
>Those that don't interact with humans obviously are not the topic of
>this discussion. Those that depend on us for something, if only
>garbage, are.
>
>>???
>>
>>I *know* you from some other newsgroup...
>>
>>R U a DOS Batcher?
>
>Yes. If you know me that well, you also know I bait trolls and other
>obnoxious users for a round or two, then killfile them. I think it
>time to killfile you.

Idiot - you just said you lure people that you don't want to talk to. See a
doctor about that.

<PLONK>

>--
>T.E.D. )

Electric Nachos
October 16th 04, 01:59 AM
Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0700, "Electric Nachos"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ted Davis wrote in message ...
>>
>>>In order to avoid obvious hypocracy, anyone advocating that kind of
>>>population explosion, which is what someone objecting to neutering is,
>>>in effect, advocating, would have to provide homes for all those
>>>cats. I'm not sure Bill Gates could afford to keep a female cat and
>>>meet his responsibility for all the offspring for any length of time.
>>
>>Speaking of HOMES, did you know that CATS are perfectly capable of
surviving
>>without humans?
>>
>>And did you know, that CATS managed to survive during the time that humans
>>were nomadic?
>>
>>Imagine that.
>>
>>CATS NOT NEEDING HUMANS or their population and <choke> health care
</choke>
>>MANipulations!
>
>Those that don't interact with humans obviously are not the topic of
>this discussion. Those that depend on us for something, if only
>garbage, are.
>
>>???
>>
>>I *know* you from some other newsgroup...
>>
>>R U a DOS Batcher?
>
>Yes. If you know me that well, you also know I bait trolls and other
>obnoxious users for a round or two, then killfile them. I think it
>time to killfile you.

Idiot - you just said you lure people that you don't want to talk to. See a
doctor about that.

<PLONK>

>--
>T.E.D. )

Arjun Ray
October 18th 04, 12:46 AM
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:17:59 -0500, kaeli wrote:

> In article >,
> enlightened us with...
>> Gee. Just think. NONE of this valuable information would have been known
>> if the animal mutilators (a.k.a. spay-ers and neuter-ers) in this group
>> got a hold of them first.
>
> You're not the brightest bulb in the box, are you?

A brain transplant from the nearest turnip patch would be an upgrade.