PDA

View Full Version : Vomiting cat


bookbug2005
April 4th 05, 02:32 AM
My cat, Charley, is 6 months old, energetic, and by all accounts
healthy. However, lately he's begun vomiting in the morning after he
first eats his kitten chow. I think what is happening is that he
snarfs it down, drinks some water, then the kitten chow expands in his
stomach, and up it comes. Although it is rare, he's done it other
times in of the day. All occurrences seem to happen when he's not
eaten in awhile (although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7).
Charley does not seem sick in the least. Just wondered if anyone else
had experience with this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Michelle

Cheryl
April 4th 05, 02:45 AM
On Sun 03 Apr 2005 09:32:04p, bookbug2005 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):

> My cat, Charley, is 6 months old, energetic, and by all accounts
> healthy. However, lately he's begun vomiting in the morning
> after he first eats his kitten chow. I think what is happening
> is that he snarfs it down, drinks some water, then the kitten
> chow expands in his stomach, and up it comes. Although it is
> rare, he's done it other times in of the day. All occurrences
> seem to happen when he's not eaten in awhile (although I leave
> kitten chow available to him 24/7). Charley does not seem sick
> in the least. Just wondered if anyone else had experience with
> this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Michelle
>
>

Yes, Michelle. Do you think Charley would like canned food? Maybe
for his first meal of the day, the canned stuff would sit better
with him. I've had cats that will hurl dry food if they eat it too
fast.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

Gail
April 4th 05, 04:00 AM
Yes, try canned food for him.
Gail
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun 03 Apr 2005 09:32:04p, bookbug2005 wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> roups.com):
>
>> My cat, Charley, is 6 months old, energetic, and by all accounts
>> healthy. However, lately he's begun vomiting in the morning
>> after he first eats his kitten chow. I think what is happening
>> is that he snarfs it down, drinks some water, then the kitten
>> chow expands in his stomach, and up it comes. Although it is
>> rare, he's done it other times in of the day. All occurrences
>> seem to happen when he's not eaten in awhile (although I leave
>> kitten chow available to him 24/7). Charley does not seem sick
>> in the least. Just wondered if anyone else had experience with
>> this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>> Michelle
>>
>>
>
> Yes, Michelle. Do you think Charley would like canned food? Maybe
> for his first meal of the day, the canned stuff would sit better
> with him. I've had cats that will hurl dry food if they eat it too
> fast.
>
> --
> Cheryl
>
> "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
> breath."
> - W.C. Fields

April 4th 05, 06:27 AM
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:45:18 -0500, Cheryl
> wrote:

>On Sun 03 Apr 2005 09:32:04p, bookbug2005 wrote in
>rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):
>
>> My cat, Charley, is 6 months old, energetic, and by all accounts
>> healthy. However, lately he's begun vomiting in the morning
>> after he first eats his kitten chow. I think what is happening
>> is that he snarfs it down, drinks some water, then the kitten
>> chow expands in his stomach, and up it comes. Although it is
>> rare, he's done it other times in of the day. All occurrences
>> seem to happen when he's not eaten in awhile (although I leave
>> kitten chow available to him 24/7). Charley does not seem sick
>> in the least. Just wondered if anyone else had experience with
>> this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>> Michelle
>>
>>
>
>Yes, Michelle. Do you think Charley would like canned food? Maybe
>for his first meal of the day, the canned stuff would sit better
>with him. I've had cats that will hurl dry food if they eat it too
>fast.

That's what my vet recommended after my 11 year old started having
that problem. He said my cat could be having a hard time passing the
dry through his system. Canned food and soft kibble work well and the
vomiting doesn't occur now unless he eats too fast.

You could also mix the kitten chow with a little water and feed it to
him that way. Like you, my cat had unlimited access to dry food, but
he's adapted to eating only at meal times. (except he acts like he's
starving all the time).

pepsi

Phil P.
April 4th 05, 09:22 AM
"bookbug2005" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My cat, Charley, is 6 months old, energetic, and by all accounts
> healthy. However, lately he's begun vomiting in the morning after he
> first eats his kitten chow. I think what is happening is that he
> snarfs it down, drinks some water, then the kitten chow expands in his
> stomach, and up it comes. Although it is rare, he's done it other
> times in of the day. All occurrences seem to happen when he's not
> eaten in awhile (although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7).
> Charley does not seem sick in the least. Just wondered if anyone else
> had experience with this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Michelle

Has he been to the vet to rule out possible medical causes? That should be
the first step. Vomiting shortly after eating could be a sign of a
gastrointestinal obstruction.

If the vet gives him a clean bill of health, I think you should make a
serious effort to switch him over to canned food while he's still young.
Changing food textures gets more difficult as cats get older. Not only will
canned food probably help his digestive problems, it will certainly reduce
the risks of potentially fatal urinary tract obstructions and other lower
urinary tract disorders.

You might also want to try placing small portions of his daily diet in
several different locations. This will force him to eat a little at a time.

But first things first. I'd let the vet have a look at him.

Best of luck.

Phil

bjdbrad
April 4th 05, 10:07 AM
My vet my breeder and many times in this and other forums I have been
told that until one year of age you should free feed your kitten. If
this is fact that should stop him from gorging himself on a morning
meal. Myself I would do anything to keep from feeding them canned food,
you may never be able to ween him off of the canned back to the dry. It
sounds to me that your explanation of why he vomits is correct and if
the free feeding cuts down the amount it should solve the problem. Easy
enough to try.

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Phil P.
April 4th 05, 10:24 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
ups.com...

Myself I would do anything to keep from feeding them canned food,
> you may never be able to ween him off of the canned back to the dry.

Why would you want to?

Phil

BC
April 4th 05, 12:20 PM
bjdbrad wrote:
> My vet my breeder and many times in this and other forums I have been
> told that until one year of age you should free feed your kitten. If
> this is fact that should stop him from gorging himself on a morning
> meal. Myself I would do anything to keep from feeding them canned food,
> you may never be able to ween him off of the canned back to the dry.

Personally I ALWAYS feed a mix of both, constant supply of dry and wet
food twice a day. I've read good and bad for both types and see this as
the best way to keep a balance.
It
> sounds to me that your explanation of why he vomits is correct and if
> the free feeding cuts down the amount it should solve the problem. Easy
> enough to try.
>
> Brad
>
> LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
> BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
> HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"
>


--
Badger Badger Badger

April 4th 05, 01:39 PM
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:20:59 GMT, BC > wrote:

>bjdbrad wrote:
>> My vet my breeder and many times in this and other forums I have been
>> told that until one year of age you should free feed your kitten. If
>> this is fact that should stop him from gorging himself on a morning
>> meal. Myself I would do anything to keep from feeding them canned food,
>> you may never be able to ween him off of the canned back to the dry.
>
>Personally I ALWAYS feed a mix of both, constant supply of dry and wet
>food twice a day. I've read good and bad for both types and see this as
>the best way to keep a balance.

Isn't this the feeding method the original poster already had in
place?

I questioned my vet about his recommendation of an all canned food
diet, too. I always thought cats (dogs, too) needed the crunch of
hard food for dental health. my vet said if that was a concern to me,
eventually I could try to incorporate a little dry food back into my
cat's diet, but that it wasn't necessary. I was also surprised when
my vet recommended Friskies canned instead of the expensive Science
Diet type foods, but since I go to a low cost clinic, he probably knew
I wasn't going to be able to buy the high priced stuff.

pepsi

bjdbrad
April 5th 05, 09:37 AM
Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them. I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to, also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food. I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.

Pepsi, in looking at the first post that I have I can't determine how
feeding was done, I right or wrong determined that the morning feeding
was from an empty bowl but I may be wrong.

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Phil P.
April 5th 05, 10:42 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
> related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
> mess of dealing with canned food.......


Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.


but also I am convinced that the
> dry food is best for them.


That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting - not
mastication.

Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
cutting) http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary/Mandible-right-medial_view.jpg

So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
bites into them, what good is dry food?


I have no quarrel with those that want to
> use canned food I just prefer not to,

Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
your convenience.


also my breeder says his cats
> have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.


Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
feline nutrition than they do about breeding!

The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower urine
volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine >> which
increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of the
water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
studies.

Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
are predisposed to it.


I think alot of
> you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
> maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
> better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
> cat.

You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes more
effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its *better*
and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our convenience.
Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities.

As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it passes
over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
urethra.

You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.

Phil

April 5th 05, 06:51 PM
On 5 Apr 2005 01:37:26 -0700, "bjdbrad" > wrote:

>Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
>related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
>mess of dealing with canned food.......but also I am convinced that the
>dry food is best for them. I have no quarrel with those that want to
>use canned food I just prefer not to, also my breeder says his cats
>have much better and less odorous stools with dry food. I think alot of
>you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
>maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
>better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
>cat.
>
>Pepsi, in looking at the first post that I have I can't determine how
>feeding was done, I right or wrong determined that the morning feeding
>was from an empty bowl but I may be wrong.
>
>Brad

He said, "(although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7)."
so I knew the cat, like mine used to, has unlimitted dry.

As for canned, I grew up with dogs and knew that dry was essential for
the animal's health. When I acquired my cat, I thought the same was
true for him. I was surprised when my vet told me cats do fine on an
all canned food diet, and that was confirmed just yesterday when I saw
a vet on tv say the same thing.

I agree with you that canned food does have an odorous effect on their
waste. But since canned food passes through their systems faster than
dry, for a cat that has trouble passing dry food, such as the original
poster's cat, that seems more of a solution than a problem.

I have boarded my cat and was told he was only given Science Diet dry
the entire week he was there. He did just fine, so I've come to the
conclusion that as long as it's a food designed for cats, it won't
harm them, unless they have other problems. I do stay away from cheap
store brand foods, though, as they give my cat bloody diarhea.

pepsi

Karen
April 5th 05, 07:28 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On 5 Apr 2005 01:37:26 -0700, "bjdbrad" > wrote:
>
> >Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
> >related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
> >mess of dealing with canned food.......but also I am convinced that the
> >dry food is best for them. I have no quarrel with those that want to
> >use canned food I just prefer not to, also my breeder says his cats
> >have much better and less odorous stools with dry food. I think alot of
> >you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
> >maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
> >better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
> >cat.
> >
> >Pepsi, in looking at the first post that I have I can't determine how
> >feeding was done, I right or wrong determined that the morning feeding
> >was from an empty bowl but I may be wrong.
> >
> >Brad
>
> He said, "(although I leave kitten chow available to him 24/7)."
> so I knew the cat, like mine used to, has unlimitted dry.
>
> As for canned, I grew up with dogs and knew that dry was essential for
> the animal's health. When I acquired my cat, I thought the same was
> true for him. I was surprised when my vet told me cats do fine on an
> all canned food diet, and that was confirmed just yesterday when I saw
> a vet on tv say the same thing.
>
> I agree with you that canned food does have an odorous effect on their
> waste. But since canned food passes through their systems faster than
> dry, for a cat that has trouble passing dry food, such as the original
> poster's cat, that seems more of a solution than a problem.

High quality canned food will not make stinkier poo.

>
> I have boarded my cat and was told he was only given Science Diet dry
> the entire week he was there. He did just fine, so I've come to the
> conclusion that as long as it's a food designed for cats, it won't
> harm them, unless they have other problems. I do stay away from cheap
> store brand foods, though, as they give my cat bloody diarhea.
>
> pepsi

You would be wrong particularly on the part of boy cats that are susceptible
to becoming blocked by crystals. BUtyou can google and read all the flame
wars over this.

bjdbrad
April 6th 05, 10:51 AM
Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong. If you want to
make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
dry food is best. Be careful not to get caught up in the marketing of
the people who promote each type of food. Each one can make good sound
arguments for their types of foods. And as far as your comment about my
cats health taking taking precendent over my convenience...go screw
yourself.....you saw that I said I was convinced dry was better and was
honest about why I don't want to use canned. Matter of fact I said use
what you want I was polite and you were an ass. I shouldn't take the
word of a breeder I researched and I should take your word, someone out
here looking for a flame?

Your holier than though attitude sucks......rushing home to feed your
cat because you love your cat more than I do huh......tell you
what....don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours I
wouldn't want to accidentally knock you off your pedestal.

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Phil P.
April 7th 05, 06:51 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
> opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
> feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong.

Maybe because I am and you were and I was trying to enlighten you for your
cats' benefit.



If you want to
> make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
> dry food is best.

I've already done extensive research backed up by controlled, clinical
studies that were published in peer-reviewed veterinary journals about the
benefits of canned food and serious disadvantages of dry food that trumps
*anything* you could possible come up with.

Before you type anymore foolish nonsense, read it first and save yourself a
lot of embarrassment:

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall



Be careful not to get caught up in the marketing of
> the people who promote each type of food. Each one can make good sound
> arguments for their types of foods.


The only argument one could make about dry food is convenience and cost -
and maybe the fact it doesn't freeze (I'm forced to feed dry food to my
feral colonies in the winter)


And as far as your comment about my
> cats health taking taking precendent over my convenience...go screw
> yourself.....


Gee, if I knew the truth would hurt so much, I would have said it anyway.



you saw that I said I was convinced dry was better and was
> honest about why I don't want to use canned.


Yeah, your reasons for why you don't *want* to feed canned food were really
moving.


Matter of fact I said use
> what you want I was polite and you were an ass.


Gee, and here I thought I gave you a pretty good education about canned vs.
dry.


I shouldn't take the
> word of a breeder I researched and I should take your word, someone out
> here looking for a flame?


Absolutely not! You should never take the word of a breeder on face value.


>
> Your holier than though attitude sucks.....


Ah ah ah - you're confusing aplomb with arrogance.



..rushing home to feed your
> cat because you love your cat more than I do huh......

Isn't it true? Or do you mean to tell me that you love my cats more than I
do?


Buts that's not what I really said, now, is it? Do you always deliberately
misinterpret other peoples' statements or do you just have a reading
comprehension problem? Here's what I actually said:

"Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities."

Nope! Nothing in there about who loves whose cats more.




tell you
> what....don't respond to my posts


No can do. I feel obliged to the feline species to correct erroneous
information whenever and wherever I see it. Look at the up side - you just
might learn something...

ccpouncer
April 7th 05, 03:08 PM
"bjdbrad" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......


Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.


but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them.


That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting - not
mastication.

Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
cutting) http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary/Mandible-right-medial_view.jpg

So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
bites into them, what good is dry food?


I have no quarrel with those that want to
use canned food I just prefer not to,

Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
your convenience.


also my breeder says his cats
have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.


Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
feline nutrition than they do about breeding!

The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower urine
volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine which
increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of the
water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
studies.

Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
are predisposed to it.


I think alot of
you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
cat.

You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes more
effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its *better*
and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our convenience.
Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
priorities.

As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it passes
over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
urethra.

You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.

Phil


Phil,
Just picked up this thread today. Very informative. I also believe:
A. You get what you pay for.
B. Feed them what they like - they know what they need.

Thanks for the info.
CC

Shadow Walker
April 7th 05, 07:48 PM
> > Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
> > related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
> > mess of dealing with canned food.......
>
>
> Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your convenience.

Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in pain
because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
Which in turn is backed up by gas I can here them pass from across the room.
You know that wet sound that we all make when our stomach lets us know we
ate something we should not have.

Don't forget the buildup on there teeth. Canned cat food leaves residue,
yeah and some would and should advise what to do about that. Wingtips and
other things. My cats won't touch raw meat. They like their dry and the
occasional canned.

> but also I am convinced that the
> > dry food is best for them.
>
>
> That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:
>
>
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
>
>
> Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
> lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for grinding?
> No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting -
not
> mastication.

"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

> Also, gently try to move your cats' jaws laterally or in a rotary motion.
> Can't do it, can you? Do you know why? Cats don't masticate! They can't
> because their jaw hinge (condyloid process) is shaped like a bar - like a
> door hinge - and only moves up and down (for holding struggling prey and
> cutting)
http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/Dentary/Mandible-right-medial_view.jpg
>
> So unless the dry food nuggets are very large - large enough for the teeth
> to sink all the way down to the gum line - and don't shatter when the cat
> bites into them, what good is dry food?
>

"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

Nuff said.

>
> I have no quarrel with those that want to
> > use canned food I just prefer not to,
>
> Its not as simple as that. Your cats' health should take precedence over
> your convenience.

What she or he said is that simple. Again pet care is not an exact science.
You can fight all day about what is better for the cat but I'll say this
much God didn't serve it in a can anymore than he served it in a bag.

> also my breeder says his cats
> > have much better and less odorous stools with dry food.
>
>
> Most breeders are hardly credible sources of information - look how much
> damage their "wisdom" has caused for many breeds - *especially* the
> brachycephalic breeds and the Siamese! Most breeders know even less about
> feline nutrition than they do about breeding!
>
> The cost of those 'better' stools is less water in the urine and lower
urine
> volume - which increases the concentration of solutes in the urine >>
which
> increases the risk of urinary tract obstructions in male cats. Most of
the
> water dry-fed cats drink is lost to fecal moisture. So, even though they
> drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, they have a *lower*
> total water intake and turnover and *lower* urine volume. This isn't
> opinion - this is fact backed up by peer-reviewed controlled clinical
> studies.
>
> Dry food also exacerbates interstitial cystitis and diabetes in cats that
> are predisposed to it.

Yes and bones get lodged in cats throats. I don't see your point here.
Predisposed will carry any way and anywere.

> I think alot of
> > you guys use canned foods because your cat seems to love it and its
> > maybe more of a treat to give them the canned food which makes you feel
> > better being good to your cat which certainly is good for you and your
> > cat.
>
> You couldn't be more wrong! Most of us feed our cats canned food because
> its *healthier for our cats*. Canned food is more is expensive, takes
more
> effort, and is just a general pain in ass to deal with it - but its
*better*
> and *healthier* for our cats - which takes precedence over our
convenience.
> Don't you think we would love to just fill up a feeder once a week and
> forget about it instead of worrying about rushing home to feed our cats on
> time? The inconvenience and effort are offset by the satisfaction and
> confidence that we are doing the best thing for our feline friends - who
> enrich our lives so much. I think you might want to reevaluate your
> priorities.

Ummmm....I feed canned as a treat and it's not more expensive if you buy it
right and not any more messy to me than dry. I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's got
less of everything and more fat. It sticks to there teeth that requires
extra time at the vets to remove and that hurts a cats heart. It causes
stomach problems, gas, diarrhea and a number of other health concerns. Don't
forget that it is not a challenge for the cats stomach to digest. Cats use
to eat animals, hair, skin, insides (including grain) nails and all. Canned
is not stringy like meat so it doesn't offer their jaw exercise or the use
of their teeth that need to be used or they get loose in the jaw and fall
out.


> As the owner of a male cat, you should be particularily concerned about
> feeding dry food. Male cats are very susceptible to urinary tract
> obstructions because their urethra narrows - like a funnel - where it
passes
> over the pelvis - which can easily become blocked by small crystals and
> debris and lead to oliguric acute renal failure and *death*. Females cats
> aren't susceptible to UTOs because they have a wider and somewhat straight
> urethra.
>
> You seem like a caring owner whose just been misled and misinformed. I
> really think you'll change your mind if you really think about it.
>
> Phil

Female cats aren't susceptible to UTI's or UTO's that's not true, not true
at all. The words you are looking for is less likely. All cats can get a UTI
and or UTO. I think you are just as misinformed. I'm not stating I know
everything nor all the answers. But I have to work very closely with my vet
for all three of my cats. I have one male who is a UTI time bomb. I have 2
females 1 has a heart murmur and the other nurological problems. So I would
say, me and the vets have had some long talks.

Putting soapbox away.

Shadow Walker

Shadow Walker
April 7th 05, 07:56 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "bjdbrad" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Well Phil the first thing you should learn here is that you can have an
> > opinion without telling the other people they are wrong. Why did you
> > feel the need to say that you are right and I am wrong.
>
> Maybe because I am and you were and I was trying to enlighten you for your
> cats' benefit.
>
>
>
> If you want to
> > make a contest about it I can write paragraphs that will tell you why
> > dry food is best.
>
> I've already done extensive research backed up by controlled, clinical
> studies that were published in peer-reviewed veterinary journals about the
> benefits of canned food and serious disadvantages of dry food that trumps
> *anything* you could possible come up with.
>
> Before you type anymore foolish nonsense, read it first and save yourself
a
> lot of embarrassment:
>
>
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall

"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere. While every attempt has been made to assure the accuracy and
completeness of the information contained herein, Max's House cannot
guarantee the accuracy of the original sources of information. Max's
House's cannot serve as a substitute for regular professional veterinary
care and is provided for reference only and not for treatment of any kind .
Max's House cannot be responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of
individual cats. We are confident that you will find Max's House's to be an
outstanding and informative addition to your cat's health care program."

Before you tell other people to read stuff you should read it for evidence
to prevent it from being used against you. Note it says to be used for
information to help in your cats health program. It doesn't say stop here
it's the bomb, the answer, the whole kit and caboodle. It looks like you
stopped there and are not really researching further into your cats own
health.

Shadow Walker

Shadow Walker
April 7th 05, 08:19 PM
> > > Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
convenience.
> >
> > Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in
pain
> > because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
>
> You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
> from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
> day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
> and he seems to be doing well on this diet.

Thanks for the info. I give canned as a treat every so often it is also used
just to make sure everything is going through. =) I have discussed the
canned food vs. dry with my vet, (I use a good sized clinic that has three
vets on staff) and as a whole canned is not for mine. We use it for sick
cats, hair ball problems but overall it's just really doesn't fit into my
cats dietary needs. I also give my cats supplements due to my one cats heart
murmur, she gets extra taurine.

Thank you.

Shadow Walker

Shadow Walker
April 7th 05, 08:27 PM
Just to add onto my other message I have no problems with canned being used
in moderation with dry, my problem is when some believe it is the only way
and they do not look at the other factors involved. Thank you very much for
your information. It is useful.

Shadow Walker


"Diane L. Schirf" > wrote in message
k.net...
> In article >,
> "Shadow Walker" > wrote:
>
> > > Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
convenience.
> >
> > Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in
pain
> > because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
>
> You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
> from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
> day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
> and he seems to be doing well on this diet.
>
> --
> http://www.slywy.com/

Phil P.
April 7th 05, 08:57 PM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...
>
> > > Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
> > > related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
> > > mess of dealing with canned food.......
> >
> >
> > Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
convenience.
>
> Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in pain
> because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
> Which in turn is backed up by gas I can here them pass from across the
room.
> You know that wet sound that we all make when our stomach lets us know we
> ate something we should not have.
>
> Don't forget the buildup on there teeth. Canned cat food leaves residue,
> yeah and some would and should advise what to do about that. Wingtips and
> other things. My cats won't touch raw meat. They like their dry and the
> occasional canned.
>
> > but also I am convinced that the
> > > dry food is best for them.
> >
> >
> > That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:
> >
> >
>
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
> >
> >
> > Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars or
> > lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for
grinding?
> > No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and cutting -
> not
> > mastication.
>

> "Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
> everywhere.


> "Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
> everywhere.
>
> Nuff said.


Sure was! You said enough to prove you're and utter idiot and don't know
*anything* about feline nutrition and to cast serious doubt that you're
capable of learning.

Btw, appropriate screen name "Shadow" - because you're certainly in the dark
about feline nutrition! LOL!

Phil P.
April 7th 05, 09:00 PM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...



<ignorant babbling snipped>

I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned and
dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.


I have learned through
> experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
got
> less of everything and more fat.

Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn so
you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
explain it to your vet! LOL!

Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food are
what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that at
one time.

CatNipped
April 7th 05, 09:21 PM
"Diane L. Schirf" > wrote in message
k.net...
> In article >,
> "Shadow Walker" > wrote:
>
>> > Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
>> > convenience.
>>
>> Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in pain
>> because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
>
> You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
> from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
> day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
> and he seems to be doing well on this diet.

I agree. I was a proponent of dry only for a long while, and my cats did
just fine on it (no extra weight, great health, no tartar or cavities,
shining eyes, and coat, etc.), but after Bandit hit 15 my vet said her
creatinin and BUN levels were creeping up a bit and she suggested adding the
canned so Bandit would get more fluids into her system.

It was hard to get them to start eating the canned after all that time on
dry, but, with patience, they have now developed a taste for it. They still
get their dry crunchies too, so they're getting both as a compromise between
their favorite and what's good for them. I'm just trying to gradually
lessen the amount of dry and increase the amount of canned.

I know some feel that only canned is good for them, and I'm sure they're
correct, but you have to balance that with the disadvantages of an abrupt
change in diet and with whether or not your cat will eat it. Even a
starving cat can not immediately be given a good, high caloric food without
drastic effects to his/her system (vomiting, diahrrea, etc.). I think the
change must be gradual both for the cats likes/dislikes and to cause the
least short-term damage to their systems.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> --
> http://www.slywy.com/

Laura K
April 7th 05, 09:49 PM
"Diane L. Schirf" > wrote in
k.net:

> You could do what I do, since Hodge has the same problem (constipation
> from dry, diarrhea from wet) -- feed wet one meal and dry one meal a
> day. He looks great, he got a clean bill of health a couple weeks ago,
> and he seems to be doing well on this diet.

I split a can/pouch between my two for breakfast and then give them dry
during the day. They're thriving on it, according to my vet. In fact, Peaches
is over-thriving and I've had to switch to diet dry.
I tried giving them each a can/pouch for breakfast and they didn't finish it.
I previously had a cat who refused to eat dry. She wouldn't even sniff it. It
simply didn't exist for her. She'd sit there and watch the other cats chow
down on it with this puzzled expression on her face. So I fed everyone
canned, since one of the cats would overeat on dry.
The cat that wouldn't eat dry was the only one that had healthy teeth that
never had to be cleaned. The dry food fanatics all had problems.

Phil P.
April 7th 05, 10:14 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message

>
> I know some feel that only canned is good for them, and I'm sure they're
> correct, but you have to balance that with the disadvantages of an abrupt
> change in diet and with whether or not your cat will eat it.

Absolutely. It doesn't matter how perfectly formulated a diet is if the cat
won't eat it.

No diet should be changed abruptly - even from one brand to a different
brand of the same type of food.

Its often difficult to change textures because a cat's texture preference is
very strongly influenced by the type of food that the cat was feed when she
was a kitten. Unfortunately, most shelters don't have the funds or help to
feed canned food so most cats develop a strong - and sometimes immovable
preference for dry food.

I also try to accustom all kittens and young cats to canned food because it
makes switching the cat to a prescription diet easier if the need arises
later in life. The *worst* time to try to change textures or even brands is
when a cat is sick -- and that's exactly when most people are forced to
change their cats' diets.

Phil

CatNipped
April 7th 05, 10:24 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
ink.net...

> Its often difficult to change textures because a cat's texture preference
> is
> very strongly influenced by the type of food that the cat was feed when
> she
> was a kitten. Unfortunately, most shelters don't have the funds or help
> to
> feed canned food so most cats develop a strong - and sometimes immovable
> preference for dry food.

Good idea to get them used to it as a kitten. However, a lot of vets are
still recommending to owners to feed dry because they were taught that that
was better for their teeth. The facts still haven't filtered down to all
vets out there yet, so lots of kittens are still started out on dry.

And yeah, it's hard for a shelter, struggling just to keep its doors open
and feed the animals in its overflowing cages, to provide the best food.
Along those lines, Phil, do you know if Fancy Feast and the other grocery
store brands who've improved their formulas are planning to kick up their
prices too? If so, then we're in the same spot as before, but if not that
should force the premium brands to come down in price - whoohoo!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Laura K
April 7th 05, 10:44 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in
ink.net:

> Its often difficult to change textures because a cat's texture
> preference is very strongly influenced by the type of food that the cat
> was feed when she was a kitten. Unfortunately, most shelters don't have
> the funds or help to feed canned food so most cats develop a strong -
> and sometimes immovable preference for dry food.

When I adopted Simon from the Humane Society two years ago they sent him home
with a sample of IAMS, which was what he was being fed there, and coupons
for more.
Once I got him home, he refused to eat the IAMS but dug right into the Fancy
Feast and some Purina One Kitten chow I bought him.
Last year, I tried some of the pouch food when it was on sale and now he just
wants that, as long as it's the chunky kind. He won't eat the ground up kind
at all, although he used to. And it has to come from a pouch, with exceptions
made for Duck with Wild Rice and Chicken Cacciatore which only come canned
and are two of his favorites.
Fortunately my other cat, Peaches, was always in multi-cat situations and
learned early to eat whatever shows up in her bowl as soon as it shows up.

bjdbrad
April 8th 05, 01:08 AM
You are right Phil I better quit before you embarass me ........I can't
think of anything worse than being embarassed by a moron......is your
head larger than the average head.....??.....knowing everything must
take its toll after awhile......by the way....I can copy and paste with
the best of em

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

bjdbrad
April 8th 05, 09:01 AM
Phil.....why do you suppose it is that everyone can voice their
opinions without having their nose stuck up in the air like you
do...??....the only confrontations I see are between you and other
people.......why don't you tell us what makes you such an expert.....so
far you have told us not to trust our vets or our breeders but you
never said why we should accept your moronic babble about
everything.........its clear someone has you totally brainwashed
.........enough so in fact that nothing anyone says would be good enough
for you no matter their credentials unless their ideas revolve around
yours.......you are totally close minded and being led around by the
nose by someone........you probably work for one of the canned food
companies.........I might even read your posts all the way through if
you weren't always trying to drag someone down.......try making your
point and relying on your laurels........it must be hell going through
life with a **** personality like you have.........

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Mary
April 8th 05, 09:14 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Phil.....why do you suppose it is that everyone can voice their
> opinions without having their nose stuck up in the air like you
> do...??....

<snipped in order to be merciful to Brad>



Brad, please go and Google Phil before you make a bigger ass of yourself.
He consistently posts some of the most useful information here, and works
tirelessly for strays. He has told me things that my vet was doing wrong,
and
when I took them to the vet he agreed when he reviewed the info Phil gave
me. He knows his stuff. Dry food is not as good for your cat as canned.
If you want to feed him that for your own convenience, then do it. I feed
one
of mine primarily dry because she is allergic to a bunch of stuff and this
stuff
does not seem to bother her.

-L.
April 8th 05, 09:21 AM
bjdbrad wrote:
> Phil.....why do you suppose it is that everyone can voice their
> opinions without having their nose stuck up in the air like you
> do...??....the only confrontations I see are between you and other
> people.......why don't you tell us what makes you such an
expert.....so
> far you have told us not to trust our vets or our breeders but you
> never said why we should accept your moronic babble about
> everything.........its clear someone has you totally brainwashed
> ........enough so in fact that nothing anyone says would be good
enough
> for you no matter their credentials unless their ideas revolve around
> yours.......you are totally close minded and being led around by the
> nose by someone........you probably work for one of the canned food
> companies.........I might even read your posts all the way through if
> you weren't always trying to drag someone down.......try making your
> point and relying on your laurels........it must be hell going
through
> life with a **** personality like you have.........
>
> Brad

Phil's actually very knowlegable about cat health and behavior. While
you might not like his style (many don't), he has a lot to offer.
Peruse his website at http://www.maxshouse.com.

Learning to get your point across without alienating the listener is
more difficult for some than others. I just usually chalk it up to
mental ability, or instability, or just plain looniness. ;) And a
style that works for one reader may turn off another - you simply
cannot please everyone. That's Usenet.

As for the wet vs. dry debate, current thought is that the more water a
cat has in its diet, the less likely it is to develop FUS. Also, many
dry diets are comprised primarily of grains, which are a poor cat food,
at best. You might want to consult Cornell on the affects of a dry
food diet.

Not all vets are reputable - some will tell you what they want to to
make sure you keep coming back to them. breeders are self-serving as
well. It pays to be skeptical and educated.

-L.

Phil P.
April 8th 05, 09:36 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> You are right Phil I better quit before you embarass me ........

I'm not trying to embarass you, I'm trying to educate you about feline
nutrition - for your cats' sake - because it looks like you really need it.


I can't
> think of anything worse than being embarassed by a moron......


That would make you an imbecile, now wouldn't it - its still a step above
an idiot - so there just might be some hope for you.


is your
> head larger than the average head.....??


In length or girth?



......knowing everything must
> take its toll after awhile......

I certainly don't know everything -- it only seems that way to you by
comparison



by the way....I can copy and paste with
> the best of em

....but you obviously haven't learned anything in the process.

Phil P.
April 8th 05, 11:54 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Phil.....why do you suppose it is that everyone can voice their
> opinions without having their nose stuck up in the air like you
> do...??....

Probably because I just don't like lazy, selfish assholes like you who put
their convenience above their cats. How's that? Does that answer your
question?


the only confrontations I see are between you and other
> people.......why don't you tell us what makes you such an expert.....


I just seem like an expert to you because you're misinformed and/or
uninformed about feline nutrition.


so
> far you have told us not to trust our vets or our breeders


Don't have much experience with either, do you?


but you
> never said why we should accept your moronic babble about
> everything.........its clear someone has you totally brainwashed


Why not check the references at the bottom of my Feline Nutrition page
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm to see who has me 'totally
brainwashed' and from where I get my 'moronic babble'. LOL!



> ........enough so in fact that nothing anyone says would be good enough
> for you no matter their credentials unless their ideas revolve around
> yours.......you are totally close minded and being led around by the
> nose by someone........


Yep! I listed most of them at the bottom of my Feline Nutrition page:
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm




you probably work for one of the canned food
> companies.........

Wow! Nothing gets past your lightening quick perception! Did you come to
that conclusion all by yourself or did your breeder help you? LOL!


I might even read your posts all the way through if
> you weren't always trying to drag someone down.......try making your
> point and relying on your laurels........it must be hell going through
> life with a **** personality like you have.........

Actually my personality works quite well for me - it usually keeps lazy,
selfish asshole like you away! LOL!

Phil P.
April 8th 05, 11:56 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Phil's actually very knowlegable about cat health and behavior. While
> you might not like his style (many don't), he has a lot to offer.
> Peruse his website at http://www.maxshouse.com.
>
> Learning to get your point across without alienating the listener is
> more difficult for some than others. I just usually chalk it up to
> mental ability, or instability, or just plain looniness. ;)

Whoa Lynn! I just didn't like his attitude about canned food being too much
trouble for him. He gave the impression that he's a selfish, lazy asshole.

April 8th 05, 01:46 PM
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:36:49 GMT in > Phil P. > wrote:
>
> "bjdbrad" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> You are right Phil I better quit before you embarass me ........
>
> I'm not trying to embarass you, I'm trying to educate you about feline
> nutrition - for your cats' sake - because it looks like you really need it.

Arguing on USENET is like running in the special Olypics.
Even if you win, you're still retarded.

You are doing an excellent job of running away folks from that which you
endorse simply because you are a pedantic abrasive control freak.

Anyhow, there are better religions than cat food. I highly recommend
an editor religion such as emacs or vim.

And BTW, *PLONK*.

--
Chris Dukes
Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil

Phil P.
April 8th 05, 01:58 PM
> wrote in message
rg...
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:36:49 GMT in
> Phil P.
> wrote:
> >
> > "bjdbrad" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> You are right Phil I better quit before you embarass me ........
> >
> > I'm not trying to embarass you, I'm trying to educate you about feline
> > nutrition - for your cats' sake - because it looks like you really need
it.
>
> Arguing on USENET is like running in the special Olypics.
> Even if you win, you're still retarded.


Well, that sure summed up your mentality.

Mary
April 8th 05, 03:27 PM
> wrote in message
rg...
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:36:49 GMT in
> Phil P.
> wrote:
> >
> > "bjdbrad" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> You are right Phil I better quit before you embarass me ........
> >
> > I'm not trying to embarass you, I'm trying to educate you about feline
> > nutrition - for your cats' sake - because it looks like you really need
it.
>
> Arguing on USENET is like running in the special Olypics.
> Even if you win, you're still retarded.
>
> You are doing an excellent job of running away folks from that which you
> endorse simply because you are a pedantic abrasive control freak.
>
> Anyhow, there are better religions than cat food. I highly recommend
> an editor religion such as emacs or vim.
>
> And BTW, *PLONK*.
>
> --
> Chris Dukes
> Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil

Another asshole speaks. Plonk this, moron. lol

Mary
April 8th 05, 03:36 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "bjdbrad" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Phil.....why do you suppose it is that everyone can voice their
> > opinions without having their nose stuck up in the air like you
> > do...??....
>
> Probably because I just don't like lazy, selfish assholes like you who put
> their convenience above their cats. How's that? Does that answer your
> question?
>
>
> the only confrontations I see are between you and other
> > people.......why don't you tell us what makes you such an expert.....
>

Man, he must not be looking very far. lol!

Mary
April 8th 05, 03:37 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "-L." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > Phil's actually very knowlegable about cat health and behavior. While
> > you might not like his style (many don't), he has a lot to offer.
> > Peruse his website at http://www.maxshouse.com.
> >
> > Learning to get your point across without alienating the listener is
> > more difficult for some than others. I just usually chalk it up to
> > mental ability, or instability, or just plain looniness. ;)
>
> Whoa Lynn! I just didn't like his attitude about canned food being too
much
> trouble for him. He gave the impression that he's a selfish, lazy
asshole.
>

He stated that he does not give his cat canned food because he does not
want to deal with the mess. There you have it. Lyn won't call an asshole
an asshole because she's in the same club, see? :)

-L.
April 8th 05, 05:16 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "-L." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > Phil's actually very knowlegable about cat health and behavior.
While
> > you might not like his style (many don't), he has a lot to offer.
> > Peruse his website at http://www.maxshouse.com.
> >
> > Learning to get your point across without alienating the listener
is
> > more difficult for some than others. I just usually chalk it up to
> > mental ability, or instability, or just plain looniness. ;)
>
> Whoa Lynn! I just didn't like his attitude about canned food being
too much
> trouble for him. He gave the impression that he's a selfish, lazy
asshole.

Perhaps, but hitting him with the facts will certainly do more to
educate him than calling him a "lazy, selfish asshole." He may be a
lazy, selfish asshole but calling him one doesn't help his cats.

We've actually had this argument before....when you emailed me a few
years ago and told me I was turning off people by referring to SLK as
"****head", LOL...C'est la vie!

-L.
(getting out the Internet crucifix...beating Sherry to it...)

Shadow Walker
April 8th 05, 06:20 PM
I agree with you there. My cats really are picky about their food and all
three are special needs cats. Canned is not on their agenda. I give it as a
treat to help any hair balls through and to give them a little something
special. Most of the time they leave the canned to start drying out and I
have to throw it away.

Shadowen Walker
"Phil P." > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > I know some feel that only canned is good for them, and I'm sure they're
> > correct, but you have to balance that with the disadvantages of an
abrupt
> > change in diet and with whether or not your cat will eat it.
>
> Absolutely. It doesn't matter how perfectly formulated a diet is if the
cat
> won't eat it.
>
> No diet should be changed abruptly - even from one brand to a different
> brand of the same type of food.
>
> Its often difficult to change textures because a cat's texture preference
is
> very strongly influenced by the type of food that the cat was feed when
she
> was a kitten. Unfortunately, most shelters don't have the funds or help
to
> feed canned food so most cats develop a strong - and sometimes immovable
> preference for dry food.
>
> I also try to accustom all kittens and young cats to canned food because
it
> makes switching the cat to a prescription diet easier if the need arises
> later in life. The *worst* time to try to change textures or even brands
is
> when a cat is sick -- and that's exactly when most people are forced to
> change their cats' diets.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>

Shadow Walker
April 8th 05, 07:46 PM
> I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
> misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
> you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
> feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
> dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.

What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have licenses
in animal health.

> I have learned through
> > experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
> got
> > less of everything and more fat.
>
> Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
> you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
> explain it to your vet! LOL!

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.

> Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
> nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
> utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
> what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

> That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
> one time.

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker

Shadow Walker
April 8th 05, 07:49 PM
Whatever Phil. I don't just sit around and depend on one source for
information.


"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > > Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
> > > > related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
> > > > mess of dealing with canned food.......
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
> convenience.
> >
> > Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in
pain
> > because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
> > Which in turn is backed up by gas I can here them pass from across the
> room.
> > You know that wet sound that we all make when our stomach lets us know
we
> > ate something we should not have.
> >
> > Don't forget the buildup on there teeth. Canned cat food leaves residue,
> > yeah and some would and should advise what to do about that. Wingtips
and
> > other things. My cats won't touch raw meat. They like their dry and the
> > occasional canned.
> >
> > > but also I am convinced that the
> > > > dry food is best for them.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
> > >
> > >
> > > Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars
or
> > > lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for
> grinding?
> > > No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and
cutting -
> > not
> > > mastication.
> >
>
> > "Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
> > everywhere.
>
>
> > "Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
> > everywhere.
> >
> > Nuff said.
>
>
> Sure was! You said enough to prove you're and utter idiot and don't know
> *anything* about feline nutrition and to cast serious doubt that you're
> capable of learning.
>
> Btw, appropriate screen name "Shadow" - because you're certainly in the
dark
> about feline nutrition! LOL!
>
>
>

CatNipped
April 8th 05, 08:16 PM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...

> Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
> cat food.

<snip>

> Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
> change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
> runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather
> feed
> a raw diet than canned.
> Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
> with a good dry.
> For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that
> is
> my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
> farrels.)
> I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
> food
> is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
> and what they prefer.

<snip>

> You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
> and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food
> is
> bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
> vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
> also
> have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
> times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave
> the
> rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
> something they won't eat, and don't like.
>
> Shadow Walker

I'm not trying to argue or change you mind, Shadow. As I wrote earlier, I
fed mine premium dry food all their lives and they did just fine on it and I
didn't change until *my* vet advised I feed my 15-year-old canned in order
to help lower her creatinine and BUN levels.

Like you I am leery about taking someone's word over my own vet's. Every
previous vet I've ever had and the rescue organizations I work with had
advised the same brand of dry, so I tended to believe them over anonymous
posters on usenet.

Like you, I think that all the links to pages I have been previously shown
regarding this issue were possibly put up by someone with their own agenda
to further (and being a web architect, I know how easy it is for just
*anybody* to put up a web page and try to sound as qualified as someone
who's gone through years of college to learn about what they're teaching).
Just because it's on a web page *sure* doesn't mean it's true.

Skepticism is essential these days, especially when we're talking about
something as precious as the health of our furry babies, as I'm sure
everyone here will agree.

Having said all that, I'd like to guide you to the Cornell University
College of Veterinary Medicine's page or feeding recommendations for cats.
I think you'll find it gives very balanced and good information.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resources/brochure/feedcats.html

The author's credentials are on the bottom of the page. I hope that helps
you out.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Shadow Walker
April 8th 05, 08:36 PM
This post was directed to Phil. I'm sorry if it posted to the wrong place.

Thank you for the link

Shadow Walker

"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with
canned
> > cat food.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
> > change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will
have
> > runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather
> > feed
> > a raw diet than canned.
> > Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I
stay
> > with a good dry.
> > For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and
that
> > is
> > my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens
and
> > farrels.)
> > I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
> > food
> > is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their
stomachs
> > and what they prefer.
>
> <snip>
>
> > You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry
food
> > and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food
> > is
> > bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
> > vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
> > also
> > have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
> > times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave
> > the
> > rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
> > something they won't eat, and don't like.
> >
> > Shadow Walker
>
> I'm not trying to argue or change you mind, Shadow. As I wrote earlier, I
> fed mine premium dry food all their lives and they did just fine on it and
I
> didn't change until *my* vet advised I feed my 15-year-old canned in order
> to help lower her creatinine and BUN levels.
>
> Like you I am leery about taking someone's word over my own vet's. Every
> previous vet I've ever had and the rescue organizations I work with had
> advised the same brand of dry, so I tended to believe them over anonymous
> posters on usenet.
>
> Like you, I think that all the links to pages I have been previously shown
> regarding this issue were possibly put up by someone with their own agenda
> to further (and being a web architect, I know how easy it is for just
> *anybody* to put up a web page and try to sound as qualified as someone
> who's gone through years of college to learn about what they're teaching).
> Just because it's on a web page *sure* doesn't mean it's true.
>
> Skepticism is essential these days, especially when we're talking about
> something as precious as the health of our furry babies, as I'm sure
> everyone here will agree.
>
> Having said all that, I'd like to guide you to the Cornell University
> College of Veterinary Medicine's page or feeding recommendations for cats.
> I think you'll find it gives very balanced and good information.
>
> http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resources/brochure/feedcats.html
>
> The author's credentials are on the bottom of the page. I hope that helps
> you out.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>
>

Shadow Walker
April 8th 05, 08:38 PM
> I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
> misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
> you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
> feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
> dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.

What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have licenses
in animal health.

> I have learned through
> > experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
> got
> > less of everything and more fat.
>
> Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
> you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
> explain it to your vet! LOL!

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.

> Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
> nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
> utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
> what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

> That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
> one time.

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker












"Phil P." > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>
> <ignorant babbling snipped>
>
> I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
> misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
> you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
> feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
> dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.
>
>
> I have learned through
> > experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
> got
> > less of everything and more fat.
>
> Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
> you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
> explain it to your vet! LOL!
>
> Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
> nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
> utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
> what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.
>
> That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
> one time.
>
>
>
>
>

CatNipped
April 8th 05, 08:50 PM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...
> This post was directed to Phil. I'm sorry if it posted to the wrong place.
>
> Thank you for the link
>
> Shadow Walker

Sorry I didn't mean to confuse. I know it was directed at Phil, I was just
responding to the skepticism you were posting because I've felt the same way
and would have appreciated a credible link to information back then.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Phil P.
April 9th 05, 03:56 AM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...

>
> What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
> clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have
licenses
> in animal health.

What a coincidence! In my shelter rescue and feral work, I work with
several vets who have the same type of set up as yours and my personal vet
is a double-boarded retired vet professor who taught vets for over 30 years.


>
> > I have learned through
> > > experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim.
It's
> > got
> > > less of everything and more fat.
> >
> > Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you
learn
> so
> > you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
> > explain it to your vet! LOL!
>
> http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
> http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
> http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
> http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm
>
> Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
> cat food.


I can't and wasn't trying to change your experiences -I'm just trying to
enlighten you about the superiority of canned food for your cats' sake.



>
> > Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
> > nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
> > utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
> are
> > what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.
>
> Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
> change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
> runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat.


Many canned foods contain *less* fat than dry foods and use a higher quality
fat - the fat in dry food must be in powered form whereas fresh fat is used
in canned food.

How did you attempt to transistion your cats over canned food, abruptly or
slowly? Abrupt dietary changes can give any cat diarrhea or loose stools.
Also, did you try several different brands? Some brands contain ingredients
that don't agree with some cats. Your cat may have had a nutrient-induced
aversion rather than a diet-induced problem.



I would rather feed
> a raw diet than canned.
> Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
> with a good dry.
> For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that
is
> my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
> farrels.)
> I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
food
> is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
> and what they prefer.

They prefer dry food because they were accustomed to dry food at a young age
and for no other reason. Nothing about a cat - from her teeth to her anus -
was designed for the comsumption and digestion of dry food.



>
> > That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than
that
> at
> > one time.
>
> You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
> and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food.


I know and have known *many* cats that do well on dry food. However. in the
long run, cats will do much better on canned than dry - canned is more
nutritious and digestible than equal quality dry and easier on the digestive
and urinary systems.


All commercial cat food is
> bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
> vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
also
> have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
> times.

I doesn't matter how many water bowls they have, cats can't make rapid and
precise changes in voluntary water intake in response to their state of
hydration. Even though cats fed dry food drink about 6x more water than
cats fed canned food - their total water intake and water turnover is much
less. There're actually studies that have proven that


I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
> rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
> something they won't eat, and don't like.

The first requirement in any endeavor is desire and the second is belief.
Since you have neither concerning feeding canned food all I can do is wish
you the best of luck.

Btw, I also noticed that this thread has been crossed-posted from another
group and that you're not a regular of rec.pets.cats.health+behav - which
probably accounts for your outdated and misguided information.

Good luck.

Phil

Phil P.
April 9th 05, 03:58 AM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...
> Whatever Phil. I don't just sit around and depend on one source for
> information.


Neither do I. I've spent a few years researching feline nutrition and
relied on only credible sources - such as veterinary and medical texts and
peer-reviewed veterinary and medical journals and veterinary nutritionists -
and not personal websites or personal opinions.

For a partial list of the sources of my information, check the references at
the bottom of my Feline Nutrition page
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

you'll see what I mean.

Phil

bjdbrad
April 9th 05, 08:51 AM
Thanks for trying to save me from the bigger ass thing I don't care how
nice of a guy he is or his credentials he doesn't know how to treat
people.....I don't let anyone take free shots at me ........I never
said a word to him until he had to try cut me down as he was making his
points........go ahead and kiss his ass .......its not my style.....as
I said many times why can't he just make his posting without telling
other people they are wrong........

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

bjdbrad
April 9th 05, 09:00 AM
You learned a word Phil........very nice......go back and read my first
post again........I said I would admit I didn't want to deal with but I
felt dry was the best.........and if I feel dry is the best it doesn't
matter how lazy of an asshole I am now does it.........your types are
spread throughout these newsgroups.........you know the sickening type
that just can't help taking shots at people........well I play along
with your little game anymore........I have wasted enough time with
you.....besides I can tell your neck is getting all swelled up and your
face all red when you see my name.......most immature people start the
name calling when they go on tilt.....nuff said........nice chattin
with ya though.....

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Mary
April 9th 05, 09:45 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for trying to save me from the bigger ass thing I don't care how

I can't tell who you are talking to. In any case, how is your cat? Still
vomiting, or better?

Phil P.
April 9th 05, 10:46 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> You learned a word Phil........very nice......

Apparently you haven't learned anything.


go back and read my first
> post again........

Why? I already know how lazy, ignorant and self-centered you are, you were
very clear.


I said I would admit I didn't want to deal with but I
> felt dry was the best.........

That's because you don't know any better and you're too dumb and lazy to
bother learning why you're wrong..


and if I feel dry is the best it doesn't
> matter how lazy of an asshole I am now does it.........


Obviously not to you, asshole, but it does to your cats.


your types are
> spread throughout these newsgroups........ you know the sickening type

I know! There are many people who know a lot more about feline nutrition
than you. I'm sure that makes you sick.


> that just can't help taking shots at people.......


Yeah I know, I just have a weakness for ignorant, lazy, self-centered
assholes whose convenience is more important than their cats. People like
you beg to have shots taken at them.


..well I play along
> with your little game anymore........

That really breaks my heart. I was having so much fun.



I have wasted enough time with
> you.....

Why worry about it? It sure isn't taking any time away from your research
into feline nutrition! LOL!


besides I can tell your neck is getting all swelled up and your
> face all red when you see my name.......


I see dry food isn't the only delusion you're under. Actually, I chuckled
when I saw another post from you. I can see why you like dry food so
much - you're ego has a lot in common with it - they both shatter when hit.

I can sure see why you *needed* a purebred cat! LOL!


most immature people start the
> name calling when they go on tilt.....


Since I can't bitch-slap you for being a spoiled, lazy, self-centered brat,
names will have to suffice.


nuff said........nice chattin
> with ya though.....


Yeah, the pleasure was all yours. Come again when you can't stay so long.

Phil P.
April 9th 05, 10:50 AM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for trying to save me from the bigger ass thing I don't care how
> nice of a guy he is or his credentials he doesn't know how to treat
> people.....I don't let anyone take free shots at me ........I never
> said a word to him until he had to try cut me down as he was making his
> points........go ahead and kiss his ass .......its not my style.....as
> I said many times why can't he just make his posting without telling
> other people they are wrong........

So there! LOL!

Shadow Walker
April 10th 05, 12:44 AM
> What a coincidence! In my shelter rescue and feral work, I work with
> several vets who have the same type of set up as yours and my personal vet
> is a double-boarded retired vet professor who taught vets for over 30
years.

Good good very good, I commend you.

> I can't and wasn't trying to change your experiences -I'm just trying to
> enlighten you about the superiority of canned food for your cats' sake.

ok then I think we cleard up somethings there.

> Many canned foods contain *less* fat than dry foods and use a higher
quality
> fat - the fat in dry food must be in powered form whereas fresh fat is
used
> in canned food.

Yes, I know this as well. Canned works great for some cats.

> How did you attempt to transistion your cats over canned food, abruptly or
> slowly? Abrupt dietary changes can give any cat diarrhea or loose stools.
> Also, did you try several different brands? Some brands contain
ingredients
> that don't agree with some cats. Your cat may have had a nutrient-induced
> aversion rather than a diet-induced problem.

Does like a snail mean anything. I'm talking like a week of mixing it with
their dry and slowly taking away the dry. They pick around the canned if any
of the dry is too covered with the canned they leave it, if it's just the
juice they lick it off the canned and leave it. Basically they like the
juice in canned foods but not the solids. I have tried chunky, patay you
name it. I even got that vet canned can not think of the name. I bought some
a year or more ago for my sick kitten. He wouldn't eat it.
It was the only thing I could force down his throat. Anyway after doing that
for a week I thought I could give them the canned straight, they picked at
it cried and walked away.

> They prefer dry food because they were accustomed to dry food at a young
age
> and for no other reason. Nothing about a cat - from her teeth to her
anus -
> was designed for the comsumption and digestion of dry food.

No argument there.

> I know and have known *many* cats that do well on dry food. However. in
the
> long run, cats will do much better on canned than dry - canned is more
> nutritious and digestible than equal quality dry and easier on the
digestive
> and urinary systems.

Again no argument there. If it works for you go for it.

> I doesn't matter how many water bowls they have, cats can't make rapid and
> precise changes in voluntary water intake in response to their state of
> hydration. Even though cats fed dry food drink about 6x more water than
> cats fed canned food - their total water intake and water turnover is much
> less. There're actually studies that have proven that

I am aware of the desert hisory. Yes.

> The first requirement in any endeavor is desire and the second is belief.
> Since you have neither concerning feeding canned food all I can do is wish
> you the best of luck.

Even if I have the desire to do it it is ultimately the cat who decides to
eat it or not. I do not think going without eating for more than two days is
a good thing. That's bad on the liver.

> Btw, I also noticed that this thread has been crossed-posted from another
> group and that you're not a regular of rec.pets.cats.health+behav - which
> probably accounts for your outdated and misguided information.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Phil

What does crossposting have to do with "outdated and misguided information".
All the groups that this cross's talk about cats. It's not like I'm crossing
from dogs to cats.
Anyway, maybe in the future we won't have to bash horns. I know your not
trying to run everyone off. You are sincere about your care for cats I
commend you. yet for those people that really don't have a clue you just
make them continue what they are doing and not want to learn from you. They
want to avoid you and your knowledge like the plague that doesn't help there
cats one bit. Remember you do it for the cats not the people but you have to
consider working around the owners.
I have to work around people all the time and bite my tongue on what I would
like to say. lol I've seen things much worse than bad diet to consider. I
have even seen vets that do not wipe the injection sights before or after
vaccinations.brrr..that's bad.

I pet sit for many people in my home for little to nothing so that the
animals can stay somewhere while the family relocate, go on vacation
whatever. I don't do it for the people I do it so the animals no matter the
specie's so they can stay with it's family in the end. Most of the time
there is no money involved just a knowledge that I helped a beloved pet stay
with it's family.

Have a good day.

Shadow Walker

Phil P.
April 10th 05, 10:43 AM
"Shadow Walker" > wrote in message
...


> What does crossposting have to do with "outdated and misguided
information".

Most groups I've visited aren't as well informed and up to date as many of
the participants in this group.


> Anyway, maybe in the future we won't have to bash horns. I know your not
> trying to run everyone off. You are sincere about your care for cats I
> commend you. yet for those people that really don't have a clue you just
> make them continue what they are doing and not want to learn from you.

You might want to practice what you preach. I found your initial post a bit
critical. In the future, you might want to read a poster's history before
you offer any criticism. I'm not some canned food fanatic - I've researched
the issue thoroughly from both sides - because I was a dry food proponent
many years ago.

Glad we've come to terms.

Good luck.

Phil

bjdbrad
April 10th 05, 06:00 PM
Slapping my forehead...........its not my cat........I was an innocent
bystander trying to help the poster with something I actually believe
in but Phil had to interject becaust my ideas aren't the same as his
and attacking me in the process.......you should get your blinders off
just a little........he is a king of copying and pasting which makes a
lot of unsuspecting people think he really knows what hes talking
about.......if my cat was sick I would certainly be doing my own
studying to correct the situation and not relying on someone with zero
people skills........cmon you have to admit that someone who is that
ugly to people he doesn't even know has a serious problem
psychologically.........if you havent read his posting today he has
physically threatened me with bodily harm if only he had the
chance.......problem is I have found that blowhards that hide behind
the written word are usually girlyboys........I hate to follow his
childishness but he has no idea how much I would love that face to face
confrontation gayboys really run fast its quite fun to
watch...........I ended this thread with Fill but his followers still
attack so now I end it period........after all Fill is the guy everyone
should listen to.......and by the way Fill with your threats of
physical harm I am absolutely sure that the veins are popping in your
neck.........take one of your sedatives before you read the
newsgroups..........

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"

Phil P.
April 10th 05, 09:42 PM
"bjdbrad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Slapping my forehead...........its not my cat........I was an innocent
> bystander trying to help the poster with something I actually believe
> in but Phil had to interject becaust my ideas aren't the same as his
> and attacking me in the process.......

Stop whining you self-centered, spoiled little crybaby. If you can handle
being corrected, don't post ignorant blabber.

Now pick up the pieces of your shattered ego and go tell your sob story to
someone who gives a ****.