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Elizabeth Blake
September 17th 05, 03:02 AM
I took Harriet to the cats only vet this morning. She still wasn't able to
go to the bathroom since her last hospitalization on Tuesday/Wednesday. I
called the cat vet this morning and they said I could drop her off between
8:00-9:30am. It was already 8:15, and it takes me about an hour to get down
there on a normal day. This week it's been more like 90 minutes or more due
to the UN rerouting traffic all over the place. The woman who answered the
phone said she'd give me until 10:30, so I got all my stuff together and
left. Harriet got restless near the end of the ride, pushing her head
against the mesh in the carrier and pawing at the towel, trying to get out.
I'm sure she wasn't pleased when we got to the vet and she realized she was
someplace else that wasn't home.

Later that afternoon I went to the other vet to pick up copies of her
records, and brought them to the cat vet. They had neglected to include
copies of the blood tests they did back in August, but they faxed them right
over when called. The vet said he wanted to draw more blood. He said that
they didn't check her thyroid and something else, which he said they should
have done. They checked her blood pressure, which was good. The vet said
that even though she had a lot of stool inside, it didn't feel rock hard.
He said the Lactulose dose was still too low at 2ml twice a day and said
they would up it to 4ml twice a day. He said the cisapride could stay the
same for now, twice a day. Harriet was also given Baytril on Wednesday,
once daily, since she had the bloody nose. There has been no sign of
bleeding or sneezing since Tuesday, when it first appeared, so that's
something to be thankful for at least.

They told me to call back at 4:30 to check on Harriet. She still hadn't
pooped so they wanted to keep her overnight and give her another enema.
They also took more x-rays but again they showed nothing unusual. I'm to
call back tomorrow morning when the vet tech gets in to get a quick update,
and then call back after 11:30 once the vet is in to see if I can take her
back. I plan on bringing her back home with me, so I can continue to
monitor her output (or lack of) and medicate her.

The vet said that we'll try the higher dose of the Lactulose before talking
about surgery. He said that it would be very expensive and he would
recommend a specialist to do it; they wouldn't do it there. He said that
just the right amount must be removed. If too much was left in, the
constipation could continue. If too much was removed, she would be leaking
all the time. I didn't ask how expensive "expensive" meant. My boss
already spent more than $1,000 at the other place. Today I brought her in
before going to work and left a deposit on my card. My boss said to pay the
balance and he'd repay me. I'll wait awhile before asking him to do that.
If it turns out that surgery is the only option I won't even ask to be
repaid for this visit. I will even give him money every week if she needs
the surgery. I just can't afford to put a huge amount on my already almost
maxed out card. Last year my cat Tiger (14 1/2 at the time) had a breast
tumor removed and it was close to $1,000 but that was probably nothing
compared to what Harriet would have to undergo.

I feel so bad for her and I know she's worn down by all of this. Last night
when I checked on her in my bedroom, she was purring loudly. She almost
never purrs. I've heard her purr twice before at work, very low, but she
was sleepy & content at those times. Last night I could hear her from
several feet away. She still woke me up this morning by head-butting me and
chirping hello. She's been sleeping on the bed woth me instead of hising in
the armoire. Last night & this morning she ate very little. I think she's
also not drinking much, if any, water. I had given a friend my old Petmate
fountain which he never used, so I got it back from him for Harriet. I
might put that in my kitchen and move my Drinkwell into the bedroom, since
Harriet has a Drinkwell at work.

I'm hoping that this will be Harriet's last hospital visit but I really
don't feel hopeful. I do feel MUCH better about her being at this vet,
though.

--
Liz

Karen
September 17th 05, 04:11 AM
I feel so bad for both you and Harriet :( Purrs that the new vet is
going to be more helpful and that the lactulose resolves this better. I
just feel so bad for you.

Candace
September 17th 05, 09:32 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>
> I'm hoping that this will be Harriet's last hospital visit but I really
> don't feel hopeful. I do feel MUCH better about her being at this vet,
> though.

Liz, this vet does sound more on top of everything. I've often thought
of going to a cats only practice but there aren't many around here and
none very convenient to where I live. It's good you have one you can
go to.

I hope they can get Harriet feeling all better again without surgery.
Your boss sounds really nice ( I can't imagine my boss spending much
more than about 10 bucks on anyone other than herself, especially an
animal). Harriet is a lucky girl to have so many people who care about
her, especially you.

I hope you can get her out Saturday and get her home with you.

Candace

Phil P.
September 17th 05, 08:26 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I took Harriet to the cats only vet this morning. She still wasn't able
to
> go to the bathroom since her last hospitalization on Tuesday/Wednesday. I
> called the cat vet this morning and they said I could drop her off between
> 8:00-9:30am. It was already 8:15, and it takes me about an hour to get
down
> there on a normal day. This week it's been more like 90 minutes or more
due
> to the UN rerouting traffic all over the place. The woman who answered
the
> phone said she'd give me until 10:30, so I got all my stuff together and
> left. Harriet got restless near the end of the ride, pushing her head
> against the mesh in the carrier and pawing at the towel, trying to get
out.
> I'm sure she wasn't pleased when we got to the vet and she realized she
was
> someplace else that wasn't home.
>
> Later that afternoon I went to the other vet to pick up copies of her
> records, and brought them to the cat vet. They had neglected to include
> copies of the blood tests they did back in August, but they faxed them
right
> over when called. The vet said he wanted to draw more blood. He said
that
> they didn't check her thyroid and something else, which he said they
should
> have done. They checked her blood pressure, which was good. The vet said
> that even though she had a lot of stool inside, it didn't feel rock hard.
> He said the Lactulose dose was still too low at 2ml twice a day and said
> they would up it to 4ml twice a day. He said the cisapride could stay the
> same for now, twice a day. Harriet was also given Baytril on Wednesday,
> once daily, since she had the bloody nose. There has been no sign of
> bleeding or sneezing since Tuesday, when it first appeared, so that's
> something to be thankful for at least.
>
> They told me to call back at 4:30 to check on Harriet. She still hadn't
> pooped so they wanted to keep her overnight and give her another enema.
> They also took more x-rays but again they showed nothing unusual. I'm to
> call back tomorrow morning when the vet tech gets in to get a quick
update,
> and then call back after 11:30 once the vet is in to see if I can take her
> back. I plan on bringing her back home with me, so I can continue to
> monitor her output (or lack of) and medicate her.
>
> The vet said that we'll try the higher dose of the Lactulose before
talking
> about surgery.

Finally! I hope you *never* go back to the first vet.



He said that it would be very expensive and he would
> recommend a specialist to do it; they wouldn't do it there. He said that
> just the right amount must be removed. If too much was left in, the
> constipation could continue. If too much was removed, she would be
leaking
> all the time. I didn't ask how expensive "expensive" meant. My boss
> already spent more than $1,000 at the other place. Today I brought her in
> before going to work and left a deposit on my card. My boss said to pay
the
> balance and he'd repay me. I'll wait awhile before asking him to do that.
> If it turns out that surgery is the only option I won't even ask to be
> repaid for this visit. I will even give him money every week if she needs
> the surgery.


Most cats with chronic constipation can be successfully managed on lactulose
and cisapride. Give the new vet's plan a chance before you start worrying
about surgery. The doses may need to be adjusted, but I think this vet is
on the right track.

Btw, did I mention that you can have the lactulose flavored? You can also
get the cisapride compounded into a flavored suspension. This might make
medicating her a lot easier. Cats really hate the taste of lactulose and
I'd hate to see her develop an aversion to being medicated and start
associating you with that taste. If you don't can't find a compounding
pharmacy that specializes with pet formulations, let me know.


I just can't afford to put a huge amount on my already almost
> maxed out card. Last year my cat Tiger (14 1/2 at the time) had a breast
> tumor removed and it was close to $1,000 but that was probably nothing
> compared to what Harriet would have to undergo.
>
> I feel so bad for her and I know she's worn down by all of this. Last
night
> when I checked on her in my bedroom, she was purring loudly. She almost
> never purrs. I've heard her purr twice before at work, very low, but she
> was sleepy & content at those times. Last night I could hear her from
> several feet away. She still woke me up this morning by head-butting me
and
> chirping hello. She's been sleeping on the bed woth me instead of hising
in
> the armoire. Last night & this morning she ate very little. I think
she's
> also not drinking much, if any, water. I had given a friend my old
Petmate
> fountain which he never used, so I got it back from him for Harriet. I
> might put that in my kitchen and move my Drinkwell into the bedroom, since
> Harriet has a Drinkwell at work.
>
> I'm hoping that this will be Harriet's last hospital visit but I really
> don't feel hopeful. I do feel MUCH better about her being at this vet,
> though.


So do I!

Keep the faith.

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 18th 05, 02:58 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...

> Most cats with chronic constipation can be successfully managed on
> lactulose
> and cisapride. Give the new vet's plan a chance before you start worrying
> about surgery. The doses may need to be adjusted, but I think this vet is
> on the right track.
>
> Btw, did I mention that you can have the lactulose flavored? You can also
> get the cisapride compounded into a flavored suspension. This might make
> medicating her a lot easier. Cats really hate the taste of lactulose and
> I'd hate to see her develop an aversion to being medicated and start
> associating you with that taste. If you don't can't find a compounding
> pharmacy that specializes with pet formulations, let me know.

Harriet really does hate the Lactulose, especially now that she has to take
so much more of it. Giving her the cisapride isn't bad, I haven't had her
spit out a single pill/capsule yet. I forgot to ask how long she should be
on the Baytril. The cat vet said the course is usually 5? 7? days. I can't
remember the number. There are still a lot of pills left in the bottle.
She's been on it since Wednesday so I'll call on Monday to find out. She
hasn't shown any signs of bleeding or sneezing since Tuesday.

The first bottle of lactulose that I got from the original vet was
completely colorless. The newer bottle (again, from the old vet) has a
slight tint to it, so I wonder if they flavored it. I'm not about to taste
the two of them to find out! I think I only used the new bottle once, when
I misplaced the first one. I gave her 4ml for the first time tonight. She
ended up spitting/drooling some out all over my bed. I set up the Drinkwell
fountain in my bedroom and thought maybe she stepped in it, or dragged her
tail through it but she was dry.

Obviously, I picked her up today. When they brought her out in her Sherpa
bag, she kept trying to get out. I opened it and she jumped out and walked
back behind the counter. It's getting harder to put her in the bag.
Tonight, on the bus coming home, she kept pawing at the mesh and crying to
get out. I unzip it and let her stick her head out, but I can't really take
her out or else other riders might complain. The first few trips she was
very quiet but I think now she wants to see what's going on.

They said she had a BM Friday around 6pm, and another this morning that was
loose. I think they use different enemas than the other place, because her
butt was pretty greasy. I remember it was the same way last year we took
her there. At the other place she came out very clean, and I don't think it
was because they took the time to bathe her. She keeps trying to clean
herself up but the taste must be pretty bad. The good thing is it's making
her drink more. Last week I didn't see her drinking any water but today at
work she was at the fountain several times.

The vet gave me some enemas and he said that if she's not going, I can try
giving her one myself before bringing her in. It says Docu-Soft Pet Enema.
He said that I should have another person to help me if I do have to use it.

She wouldn't eat at the vet's this morning. When I called in the morning,
before the doctor was in, the tech asked me what kind of food she liked to
eat. He said he would try Fancy Feast to ger her to eat. When I picked her
up at noon they said that she wouldn't eat. She did eat at work. I gave
her Wellness, and I pushed some of the dry Low residue food in it to
encourage her, and she ate everything. Tonight, at home, I did the same
things and she ate all of the dry and about half of the wet. I know she
would prefer to be at the bookstore and she does eat better there but I
can't keep track of her litter box deposits there.

She was pretty good all day but near the end she decided to stalk her
favorite prey, Carl. He was very good about it. In the past, whe she
started growling he would get very nervous and back away or call me. Today
he continued doing what he was doing and ignored her. I picked her up and
took her into my office since we would be leaving soon anyway.

This afternoon, after she ate, she headed upstairs into the store. I
followed her to see what she was doing (and to make sure she wasn't trying
to kill Carl). Right after that, a young woman came in and I heard her ask
a co-worker if Harriet was in. It was pretty funny/cute. My co-worker
pointed her out and also pointed to me, saying that I was her primary
caregiver. The woman grasped my hand and thanked me for taking such good
care of her. She said that when she was in school she would stop in every
day to visit Harriet. Now that she's graduated, she said she makes it in
about once a week. I know there are other people who come in just to see
Harriet, and who are worried when she's not there. I printed out some
pictures I took of her on my bed and the manager put them up by the cash
registers to show Harriet's fan club.

We've been home for just a few hours. She has peed in the box and I did see
some unfortunate brown spots on my bed. They warned me that she might still
be leaking. I guess I'll be doing extra laundry.

--
Liz

Karen
September 18th 05, 04:16 AM
On 2005-09-17 20:58:08 -0500, "Elizabeth Blake"
> said:

> This afternoon, after she ate, she headed upstairs into the store. I
> followed her to see what she was doing (and to make sure she wasn't
> trying to kill Carl).
This is pretty funny!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> Right after that, a young woman came in and I heard her ask a
> co-worker if Harriet was in. It was pretty funny/cute. My co-worker
> pointed her out and also pointed to me, saying that I was her primary
> caregiver. The woman grasped my hand and thanked me for taking such
> good care of her. She said that when she was in school she would stop
> in every day to visit Harriet. Now that she's graduated, she said she
> makes it in about once a week. I know there are other people who come
> in just to see Harriet, and who are worried when she's not there. I
> printed out some pictures I took of her on my bed and the manager put
> them up by the cash registers to show Harriet's fan club.

Awww. That's so sweet that people are fans. I bet if she ever does need
expensive treatment, they would chip in.

Candace
September 18th 05, 09:24 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>
> This afternoon, after she ate, she headed upstairs into the store. I
> followed her to see what she was doing (and to make sure she wasn't trying
> to kill Carl). Right after that, a young woman came in and I heard her ask
> a co-worker if Harriet was in. It was pretty funny/cute. My co-worker
> pointed her out and also pointed to me, saying that I was her primary
> caregiver. The woman grasped my hand and thanked me for taking such >good
> care of her. She said that when she was in school she would stop in every
> day to visit Harriet. Now that she's graduated, she said she makes it in
> about once a week. I know there are other people who come in just to see
> Harriet, and who are worried when she's not there. I printed out some
> pictures I took of her on my bed and the manager put them up by the cash
> registers to show Harriet's fan club.

I'm glad Harriet is home with you. I will be thinking good thoughts
for her complete recovery.

I know that, at the few places I have gone where they have a resident
kitty, that's always my first concern when I go in and I always ask if
I don't see the cat. There's a gourmet food/sandwich shop/wine store
place close to where I live where they had a resident cat.. Her name
was Princess and she had been there for about 18 years. She was
primarily an outdoor kitty and was spayed and vetted and well-fed and
liked to hang out with people when they were eating on the patio. Once
we went and I didn't see her or her food dishes so I asked where she
was. They said she had been catnapped a couple of weeks earlier! They
said someone pulled up in a car, grabbed her and drove off. A couple
days prior to that, a well-dressed woman had been in asking questions
about Princess and her vet care and making remarks that indicated she
didn't think they were taking good enough care of her so they felt the
woman took her home to be an indoor cat. I certainly hope so and so
did they. 18 years is a long time, I'm sure Princess wondered what
became of her home...it probably wasn't ideal because of the outdoor
aspect of it (the area was close to some heavy traffic) but she always
appeared happy and content so I'm sure she enjoyed her life as it was
all she had known. Maybe it was best that she live out the rest of her
life in a safer environment but I felt bad about it all and so did the
staff. It would have been nice if the catnappers had at least called
anonymously afterwards to tell them what they had done and ease their
concerns a bit.

I still think of her every single time I go there and I look to see if
there are any food dishes around for new cats but there aren't.

Candace

-L.
September 18th 05, 10:26 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
<snip>

> They said she had a BM Friday around 6pm, and another this morning that was
> loose. I think they use different enemas than the other place, because her
> butt was pretty greasy.

Probably KY. Most enemas are a mixture of a soap-like solution, KY and
water.

>I remember it was the same way last year we took
> her there. At the other place she came out very clean, and I don't think it
> was because they took the time to bathe her. She keeps trying to clean
> herself up but the taste must be pretty bad. The good thing is it's making
> her drink more. Last week I didn't see her drinking any water but today at
> work she was at the fountain several times.

It would be really unusual for them not to at least rinse her butt
after an enema-induced BM. It is a HUGE mess. Most vets will shampoo
at least the back half of the cat before sending them home.

>
> The vet gave me some enemas and he said that if she's not going, I can try
> giving her one myself before bringing her in. It says Docu-Soft Pet Enema.
> He said that I should have another person to help me if I do have to use it.

LOL...definitely. It is a 2 or 3 person job. Not for the faint of
heart. You will probably have to do it over a sink, and wrap the front
end of her in a towel, and hold her down. Put KY all over the enema
before trying to insert it. Afterwards, confine her to a small spot
with access to a littler box (cage or bathroom) and put her on a LOT of
towels. She will need a bath afterwards.

>
> She wouldn't eat at the vet's this morning. When I called in the morning,
> before the doctor was in, the tech asked me what kind of food she liked to
> eat. He said he would try Fancy Feast to ger her to eat. When I picked her
> up at noon they said that she wouldn't eat. She did eat at work. I gave
> her Wellness, and I pushed some of the dry Low residue food in it to
> encourage her, and she ate everything. Tonight, at home, I did the same
> things and she ate all of the dry and about half of the wet.

That's great news! Cats feel nauseated after enemas - many will vomit
and/or dry heave for an hour or so afterward. It's so sad to watch.
It's a great sign that she's eating again.

> I know she
> would prefer to be at the bookstore and she does eat better there but I
> can't keep track of her litter box deposits there.
>
> She was pretty good all day but near the end she decided to stalk her
> favorite prey, Carl. He was very good about it. In the past, whe she
> started growling he would get very nervous and back away or call me. Today
> he continued doing what he was doing and ignored her. I picked her up and
> took her into my office since we would be leaving soon anyway.
>
> This afternoon, after she ate, she headed upstairs into the store. I
> followed her to see what she was doing (and to make sure she wasn't trying
> to kill Carl). Right after that, a young woman came in and I heard her ask
> a co-worker if Harriet was in. It was pretty funny/cute. My co-worker
> pointed her out and also pointed to me, saying that I was her primary
> caregiver. The woman grasped my hand and thanked me for taking such good
> care of her. She said that when she was in school she would stop in every
> day to visit Harriet. Now that she's graduated, she said she makes it in
> about once a week. I know there are other people who come in just to see
> Harriet, and who are worried when she's not there. I printed out some
> pictures I took of her on my bed and the manager put them up by the cash
> registers to show Harriet's fan club.

Sweet. :)

>
> We've been home for just a few hours. She has peed in the box and I did see
> some unfortunate brown spots on my bed. They warned me that she might still
> be leaking. I guess I'll be doing extra laundry.

It's not uncommon for them to leak quite awhile after an enema.

I hope thie is resolved soon. Sounds like she has poor muscle tone in
the colon, which is common in older cats, especially Japanese
bob-tails, Manx and Manx-wannabes (I don't know if Harriet fits this
description or not - I haven't been following every post). I hope it
resolves on its own and that she doesn't need surgery. Keep us posted.

-L.

Phil P.
September 18th 05, 10:53 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Most cats with chronic constipation can be successfully managed on
> > lactulose
> > and cisapride. Give the new vet's plan a chance before you start
worrying
> > about surgery. The doses may need to be adjusted, but I think this vet
is
> > on the right track.
> >
> > Btw, did I mention that you can have the lactulose flavored? You can
also
> > get the cisapride compounded into a flavored suspension. This might
make
> > medicating her a lot easier. Cats really hate the taste of lactulose
and
> > I'd hate to see her develop an aversion to being medicated and start
> > associating you with that taste. If you don't can't find a compounding
> > pharmacy that specializes with pet formulations, let me know.
>
> Harriet really does hate the Lactulose, especially now that she has to
take
> so much more of it.


I think you should consider having the lactulose flavored, otherwise,
there's a very strong possibility she'll develop a very strong aversion to
being medicated- which will make your job even more difficult if not
impossible- which would be disastrous for her. You might also want to get
another oral syringe and fill it with 5 ml of water and give it to her after
the lactulose to wash away the taste so it doesn't kill her appetite.


Giving her the cisapride isn't bad, I haven't had her
> spit out a single pill/capsule yet. I forgot to ask how long she should
be
> on the Baytril. The cat vet said the course is usually 5? 7? days. I
can't
> remember the number. There are still a lot of pills left in the bottle.
> She's been on it since Wednesday so I'll call on Monday to find out. She
> hasn't shown any signs of bleeding or sneezing since Tuesday.
>
> The first bottle of lactulose that I got from the original vet was
> completely colorless. The newer bottle (again, from the old vet) has a
> slight tint to it, so I wonder if they flavored it. I'm not about to
taste
> the two of them to find out! I think I only used the new bottle once,
when
> I misplaced the first one. I gave her 4ml for the first time tonight.
She
> ended up spitting/drooling some out all over my bed. I set up the
Drinkwell
> fountain in my bedroom and thought maybe she stepped in it, or dragged her
> tail through it but she was dry.


You might get more into her if you insert the syringe in the gap between the
canine and carnassials- this way you don't have to force open her mouth.
After giving the lactulose, hold her head up a little with your palm and
stroke her throat a little and then give her the syringe of water or better
still, tuna water.



>
> Obviously, I picked her up today. When they brought her out in her Sherpa
> bag, she kept trying to get out. I opened it and she jumped out and
walked
> back behind the counter. It's getting harder to put her in the bag.
> Tonight, on the bus coming home, she kept pawing at the mesh and crying to
> get out. I unzip it and let her stick her head out, but I can't really
take
> her out or else other riders might complain. The first few trips she was
> very quiet but I think now she wants to see what's going on.


You might want to put her in a ferret or rabbit figure 8 harness for the bus
ride in case she manages to escape from the bag. The figure 8s are very
thin and not as bulky as a cat harness. They cost about $5. Here's what it
looks like:
http://www.maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/rabbitharness.jpg


>
> They said she had a BM Friday around 6pm, and another this morning that
was
> loose. I think they use different enemas than the other place, because
her
> butt was pretty greasy.

The other place probably used only warm water.


I remember it was the same way last year we took
> her there. At the other place she came out very clean, and I don't think
it
> was because they took the time to bathe her. She keeps trying to clean
> herself up but the taste must be pretty bad. The good thing is it's
making
> her drink more. Last week I didn't see her drinking any water but today
at
> work she was at the fountain several times.
>
> The vet gave me some enemas and he said that if she's not going, I can try
> giving her one myself before bringing her in. It says Docu-Soft Pet
Enema.
> He said that I should have another person to help me if I do have to use
it.


The little pink syringes? I hate those things! LOL! I got "spayed" twice-
that did it. Now I use the glycerin syringes. Just make sure you wear
raincoat when you use it! LOL! Be sure to grease it up with a little KY
before inserting it.


>
> She wouldn't eat at the vet's this morning. When I called in the morning,
> before the doctor was in, the tech asked me what kind of food she liked to
> eat. He said he would try Fancy Feast to ger her to eat. When I picked
her
> up at noon they said that she wouldn't eat.


That's not unusual. Most cats won't eat in the clinic.


She did eat at work. I gave
> her Wellness, and I pushed some of the dry Low residue food in it to
> encourage her, and she ate everything. Tonight, at home, I did the same
> things and she ate all of the dry and about half of the wet. I know she
> would prefer to be at the bookstore and she does eat better there but I
> can't keep track of her litter box deposits there.


She's eating- that's a good sign. I think the higher lactulose dose will
make a world of difference.


>
> She was pretty good all day but near the end she decided to stalk her
> favorite prey, Carl. He was very good about it. In the past, whe she
> started growling he would get very nervous and back away or call me.
Today
> he continued doing what he was doing and ignored her. I picked her up and
> took her into my office since we would be leaving soon anyway.


Sound like her spirits are picking up. That's a good sign, too.


>
> This afternoon, after she ate, she headed upstairs into the store. I
> followed her to see what she was doing (and to make sure she wasn't trying
> to kill Carl). Right after that, a young woman came in and I heard her
ask
> a co-worker if Harriet was in. It was pretty funny/cute. My co-worker
> pointed her out and also pointed to me, saying that I was her primary
> caregiver. The woman grasped my hand and thanked me for taking such good
> care of her. She said that when she was in school she would stop in every
> day to visit Harriet. Now that she's graduated, she said she makes it in
> about once a week. I know there are other people who come in just to see
> Harriet, and who are worried when she's not there. I printed out some
> pictures I took of her on my bed and the manager put them up by the cash
> registers to show Harriet's fan club.


Put a jar by the cash register with a sign on it "Harriet's Vet Fund". LOL!


>
> We've been home for just a few hours. She has peed in the box and I did
see
> some unfortunate brown spots on my bed. They warned me that she might
still
> be leaking. I guess I'll be doing extra laundry.

That's not unusual after an enema.

I'm so relieved (no pun intended) that you decided to take her to another
vet. Lets hope this vet gets to the bottom (pun intended) of her problem

Good luck.

Phil.

PS: When are we going to see a picture of Harriet???

Elizabeth Blake
September 18th 05, 06:32 PM
"Candace" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I know that, at the few places I have gone where they have a resident
> kitty, that's always my first concern when I go in and I always ask if
> I don't see the cat. There's a gourmet food/sandwich shop/wine store
> place close to where I live where they had a resident cat.. Her name
> was Princess and she had been there for about 18 years. She was
> primarily an outdoor kitty and was spayed and vetted and well-fed and
> liked to hang out with people when they were eating on the patio. Once
> we went and I didn't see her or her food dishes so I asked where she
> was. They said she had been catnapped a couple of weeks earlier! They
> said someone pulled up in a car, grabbed her and drove off. A couple
> days prior to that, a well-dressed woman had been in asking questions
> about Princess and her vet care and making remarks that indicated she
> didn't think they were taking good enough care of her so they felt the
> woman took her home to be an indoor cat. I certainly hope so and so
> did they. 18 years is a long time, I'm sure Princess wondered what
> became of her home...it probably wasn't ideal because of the outdoor
> aspect of it (the area was close to some heavy traffic) but she always
> appeared happy and content so I'm sure she enjoyed her life as it was
> all she had known. Maybe it was best that she live out the rest of her
> life in a safer environment but I felt bad about it all and so did the
> staff. It would have been nice if the catnappers had at least called
> anonymously afterwards to tell them what they had done and ease their
> concerns a bit.

The manager at work has always been paranoid that someone was going to
catnap Harriet. Since I work in an office dosntairs and I'm not in the
actual store much, I don't have to deal with the customers. The manager
gets nervous is anyone starts asking too many questions about her, and she'd
call down to my office and ask me to come get Harriet and take her
downstairs. I do get that some people get upset when they see a cat living
in a store or restaurant. Most people assume the cat is there simply to
catch rodents and doesn't get proper care. When we moved th the location
I'm in now, my boss said I could get 2 cats and I called various
shelters/rescue groups and told them I wanted cats for a bookstore and they
all refused. My cat at home, Tiger, was our store cat at our old location
and I took her home when I moved into my current apartment. I offered to
bring in Tiger's vet records from her time at the store to prove she was
taken care of but they didn't care. I finally went to a shelter and filled
out the forms as if I was taking them home, and that was 6.5 years ago
already.

On the other hand, I've been in countless delis where I'd see a cat for
awhile and then never see it again. Later on a different cat would be
there. I can only hope those cats *were* catnapped. I almost stole a
kitten from the deli right by work. I walked in one day and the porr thing
was compltely tangles in a plastic shopping bag that blew in the open door.
When I released her she ran off to the back so I couldn't grab her. I never
saw her againafter that day, and she was at least the third cat there in 2
years. Another smaller deli on the same block had a calico but I never
worried about her. The owners of that deli were a married couple and they
had pictures of their dogs and cats all over the place. The deli just
closed so I assume they took the calico home. I know they cared about her,
and the cat was devoted to the husband.

The vet that Harriet just went to (cats only) sometimes hosts cat adoption
days. The vet told me, the first time we ever went there, that they would
adopt out a cat to a bookstore but not to a deli, supermarket, restaurant or
places like that.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
September 18th 05, 06:39 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> They said she had a BM Friday around 6pm, and another this morning that
>> was
>> loose. I think they use different enemas than the other place, because
>> her
>> butt was pretty greasy.
>
> Probably KY. Most enemas are a mixture of a soap-like solution, KY and
> water.

Probably was KY. They gave me enemas to use at home if I had to and said to
coat it with KY first.

> It would be really unusual for them not to at least rinse her butt
> after an enema-induced BM. It is a HUGE mess. Most vets will shampoo
> at least the back half of the cat before sending them home.

They did rinse her but not everything came off. I noticed they even shaved
a bit of fur off around the butt area/base of tail. When she was at this
vet last year they did bathe her before she came home. Last year she had
been completely backed up not only with feces, but with hairballs too. They
said she got very, very messy after the enema. She's been so stressed out
lately that it's probably better they didn't also bathe her.


> LOL...definitely. It is a 2 or 3 person job. Not for the faint of
> heart. You will probably have to do it over a sink, and wrap the front
> end of her in a towel, and hold her down. Put KY all over the enema
> before trying to insert it. Afterwards, confine her to a small spot
> with access to a littler box (cage or bathroom) and put her on a LOT of
> towels. She will need a bath afterwards.

They told me, "Make sure you get her in a bathroom RIGHT AWAY if you have to
give her the enema". I really hope I don't have to do it. If I do, I'd
have to bring her back to work in order to have at least one person help me,
but then there's no room we can lock her in. I could call up some friends
to come over to my apartment and help but their schedules are so weird I
never know when they're around.


> It's not uncommon for them to leak quite awhile after an enema.
>
> I hope thie is resolved soon. Sounds like she has poor muscle tone in
> the colon, which is common in older cats, especially Japanese
> bob-tails, Manx and Manx-wannabes (I don't know if Harriet fits this
> description or not - I haven't been following every post). I hope it
> resolves on its own and that she doesn't need surgery. Keep us posted.
>
> -L.

Harriet's just a DSH tabby. I also hope that surgery isn't needed, but it's
discouraging that it's taken so many trips to the vet and I still don't know
if she's back to normal.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
September 18th 05, 06:54 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...

> I think you should consider having the lactulose flavored, otherwise,
> there's a very strong possibility she'll develop a very strong aversion to
> being medicated- which will make your job even more difficult if not
> impossible- which would be disastrous for her. You might also want to get
> another oral syringe and fill it with 5 ml of water and give it to her
> after
> the lactulose to wash away the taste so it doesn't kill her appetite.

The last vet didn't give me any Lactulose, since I had a new full bottle and
the first bottle was still 1/3 full. I'll try to rinse her mouth with
water, but she bolts out of my arms and runs onder the bed after I give it
to her. I'm afraid she might be spitting it up under my bed, which is
nearly impossible for me to get under. This morning she did leave trails of
lactulose/saliva across the bed but it wasn't a huge amount.


> You might get more into her if you insert the syringe in the gap between
> the
> canine and carnassials- this way you don't have to force open her mouth.
> After giving the lactulose, hold her head up a little with your palm and
> stroke her throat a little and then give her the syringe of water or
> better
> still, tuna water.

I'll try to hold onto her after giving her the lactulose. I do stick it
between her teeth because she's not too happy about opening her mouth for
me. She does run and hide if she sees that I have the bottle or syringe in
my hand, so I have to wrap it in a paper towel and stick it in my pocket
when I have to give it to her.


> You might want to put her in a ferret or rabbit figure 8 harness for the
> bus
> ride in case she manages to escape from the bag. The figure 8s are very
> thin and not as bulky as a cat harness. They cost about $5. Here's what
> it
> looks like:
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/rabbitharness.jpg

I don't open the bag enough so that she could actually get out. I also
don't open it until the bus is on the highway, so I know it won't stop &
open the doors suddenly. Maybe next time we have to ride the bus I'll sit
way in the back so I could try putting her on my lap for a bit without many
people noticing.

> The little pink syringes? I hate those things! LOL! I got "spayed"
twice-
> that did it. Now I use the glycerin syringes. Just make sure you wear
> raincoat when you use it! LOL! Be sure to grease it up with a little KY
> before inserting it.

Yes, they're pink. We have huge plastic garbage bags at work, I guess I'd
make sure I put one on before attempting the enema. The vet said that if
she doesn't have a BM in three days, to give her an enema. Last night,
right after I turned out the light to go to bed, I heard Harriet jump off
the bed and then she started scratching around in the litter box. That was
followed by a loud, wet, farting noise. I waited until she stopped before
turning on the light, then I grabbed the box and took it to the bathroom to
flush the waste down. It was very liquid and there was a good amount of it.
I'm happy she went to the box and didn't just let loose on the bed. I
really have to find one of those waterproof mattress covers. I haven't had
time to go to any stores to look for one. Her butt was actually pretty
clean after she went, which was great because I was exhausted and fighting
with her to get clean wouldn't have been any fun.


> She's eating- that's a good sign. I think the higher lactulose dose will
> make a world of difference.

She ate more than half of what I gave her this morning - chicken Wellness
with some of the dry low residue food pushed into it. I put my Drinkwell
fountain in the bedroom and set up the Petmate fountain in the kitchen.
Last night as I was trying to sleep I think I heard her drinking from the
fountain but I'm not positive. I think I'm going to put her collar back on
her so I can track where she's going in the dark, from her bell/tags
jingling. I give her a break from the collar when she's here.

> PS: When are we going to see a picture of Harriet???

I have posted pictures of her in the past on alt.binaries.pictures.animals
and I think I posted one yesterday so it might still be there. I'll put a
couple more up.

--
Liz

Topaz
September 18th 05, 06:54 PM
"Phil P." > wrote

> You might want to put her in a ferret or rabbit figure 8 harness for the
bus
> ride in case she manages to escape from the bag. The figure 8s are very
> thin and not as bulky as a cat harness. They cost about $5. Here's what
it
> looks like:
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/rabbitharness.jpg
>
>

Phil, what are the advantages of these harnesses over
cat harnesses aside from being less bulky? I may need to
get one, expecially if they are harder to escape from.

September 18th 05, 07:55 PM
Hi,
I'm glad to hear Harriet is getting care from the new vet and things are
looking up a bit. As far as a harness goes, ignore Phil's recommendation
about a figure 8 harness. They are worthless and I would never use one.
If you want an excellent harness that is pretty escape proof once it's
adjusted properly, the walking jacket is your best bet:
http://www.metpet.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/walkingjacket.html

As far as your concerns about Harriet not getting along with your cats,
I disagree. The scenario you described with the cats at the bookstore is
much different and I'm guessing there was no separation or slow
introduction done. In that case, many cats would react as Harriet did.
Doing a proper introduction at home would result in the cats at the
veryleast living together peacefully. I also don't think keeping her at
your home would be worse in her mind as it sounds like the bookstore is
actually stressful fo her at times. Cats thrive on routine and
continuity, and being in a real home, especially with her type of
personality, would be very beneficial for her. She obviously enjoys the
personal attention and sleeping with you and frankly, I feel sorry for
cats that aren't in a position to cuddle for long periods of time. I
also worry about the catnapping you were discussing. With Harriet's
issues, that would be a horrible thing to happen and if it were me, I
would be way too uncomfortable with her being at the bookstore at this
point. Yes, I know I sound very mistrustful of people, but having been
in rescue for over 27 years, I have very good reasons and, when
balancing the welfare of a cat with other things, the cat will always
come first. The store manager especially concerns me, is far from
trustworthy (especially considering her latest escapades,) and I
seriously hope you keep Harriet at home from now until at least a month
or more after she has gone, although I'd love to see you keep her
permanently. :-)

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Topaz
September 18th 05, 08:35 PM
> wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> I'm glad to hear Harriet is getting care from the new vet and things are
> looking up a bit. As far as a harness goes, ignore Phil's recommendation
> about a figure 8 harness. They are worthless

How are they "worthless?" Can cats get out of them? So you have
used these harnesses?

Phil P.
September 18th 05, 08:40 PM
> wrote in message
...

As far as a harness goes, ignore Phil's recommendation
> about a figure 8 harness. They are worthless and I would never use one.
> If you want an excellent harness that is pretty escape proof once it's
> adjusted properly, the walking jacket is your best bet:
> http://www.metpet.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/walkingjacket.html

The harness is for restraint in case the cat gets out of the bag-type
carrier, Einstein. The walking jacket is too bulky and restrictive for this
purpose and would only stress out Harriet more. The figure 8 harnesses work
perfectly. I've *never* had an escape from one. If you have, you didn't
adjust it properly- and it was your fault, not the harness's.

Phil P.
September 18th 05, 09:08 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...

> > You might want to put her in a ferret or rabbit figure 8 harness for the
> > bus
> > ride in case she manages to escape from the bag. The figure 8s are very
> > thin and not as bulky as a cat harness. They cost about $5. Here's
what
> > it
> > looks like:
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/rabbitharness.jpg
>
> I don't open the bag enough so that she could actually get out. I also
> don't open it until the bus is on the highway, so I know it won't stop &
> open the doors suddenly.


That's not my only worry. If she gets out of the bag, she might attack a
passenger or run up near the driver's feet-which could cause an accident. A
determined cat can be difficult to hold.



Maybe next time we have to ride the bus I'll sit
> way in the back so I could try putting her on my lap for a bit without
many
> people noticing.

I wouldn't take her out of the carrier without a harness. If the bus stops
short or has to swerve, she could jump off and get loose.



>
> > The little pink syringes? I hate those things! LOL! I got "spayed"
> twice-
> > that did it. Now I use the glycerin syringes. Just make sure you wear
> > raincoat when you use it! LOL! Be sure to grease it up with a little KY
> > before inserting it.
>
> Yes, they're pink. We have huge plastic garbage bags at work, I guess I'd
> make sure I put one on before attempting the enema. The vet said that if
> she doesn't have a BM in three days, to give her an enema. Last night,
> right after I turned out the light to go to bed, I heard Harriet jump off
> the bed and then she started scratching around in the litter box. That
was
> followed by a loud, wet, farting noise. I waited until she stopped before
> turning on the light, then I grabbed the box and took it to the bathroom
to
> flush the waste down. It was very liquid and there was a good amount of
it.
> I'm happy she went to the box and didn't just let loose on the bed. I
> really have to find one of those waterproof mattress covers. I haven't
had
> time to go to any stores to look for one.

Try ordering one online and having it shipped to your store.



Her butt was actually pretty
> clean after she went, which was great because I was exhausted and fighting
> with her to get clean wouldn't have been any fun.
>
>
> > She's eating- that's a good sign. I think the higher lactulose dose
will
> > make a world of difference.
>
> She ate more than half of what I gave her this morning - chicken Wellness
> with some of the dry low residue food pushed into it. I put my Drinkwell
> fountain in the bedroom and set up the Petmate fountain in the kitchen.
> Last night as I was trying to sleep I think I heard her drinking from the
> fountain but I'm not positive. I think I'm going to put her collar back
on
> her so I can track where she's going in the dark, from her bell/tags
> jingling. I give her a break from the collar when she's here.


Make sure its a breakaway collar- otherwise she could get it caught on
something if she crawls under furniture.


>
> > PS: When are we going to see a picture of Harriet???
>
> I have posted pictures of her in the past on alt.binaries.pictures.animals
> and I think I posted one yesterday so it might still be there. I'll put a
> couple more up.

She looks like she has one hell of a spirit! ;-) She has the same 'dreamy
eyes" and coat pattern as my cat, Jade-'o-mine.


http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-11-16-04--4a.jpg


Phil

September 18th 05, 10:06 PM
Elizabeth,
To elaborate a bit on my view of the figure eight harness, I don't like
them because they can choke a cat and be uncomfortable. Cats
International, a reputable organization, agrees that figure eight
harnesses should not be used:
"We do not recommend from 'figure eight' style harnesses, as these can
pinch Kitty and make the harness uncomfortable. Instead, the preferred
design should be an "H-style" design, with two independently adjustable
loops connected by a third piece of material."

By contrast, the walking jacket has three straps that are independently
adjustable and more conducive to a comfortable fit. The jacket is not
bulky at all (I have two of different sizes and have used them often)
and would be fine to use for the bus trips. I have a friend that moved
cross country by car and kept a walking jacket on her cat the entire
time as a safety measure and he was just fine and quite comfortable.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Phil P.
September 18th 05, 10:15 PM
"Topaz" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote
>
> > You might want to put her in a ferret or rabbit figure 8 harness for the
> bus
> > ride in case she manages to escape from the bag. The figure 8s are very
> > thin and not as bulky as a cat harness. They cost about $5. Here's
what
> it
> > looks like:
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/rabbitharness.jpg
> >
> >
>
> Phil, what are the advantages of these harnesses over
> cat harnesses aside from being less bulky? I may need to
> get one, expecially if they are harder to escape from.


They're less bulky and don't make the cat feel so restricted- I think
they're less stressful for the cat. All you have to do is adjust the
tightness so your pinky can just barely slide between the harness and the
cat. They work perfectly.

Phil

Phil P.
September 18th 05, 11:53 PM
> wrote in message
...

> To elaborate a bit on my view of the figure eight harness, I don't like
> them because they can choke a cat and be uncomfortable.

Bull****. The figure 8s don't choke the cat if you adjust it properly. Any
collar or harness with a neck strap- even your straight-jacket- can choke
the cat if its not adjusted properly.

MaryL
September 19th 05, 01:58 AM
> wrote in message
...
> Elizabeth,
> To elaborate a bit on my view of the figure eight harness, I don't like
> them because they can choke a cat and be uncomfortable. Cats
> International, a reputable organization, agrees that figure eight
> harnesses should not be used:
> "We do not recommend from 'figure eight' style harnesses, as these can
> pinch Kitty and make the harness uncomfortable. Instead, the preferred
> design should be an "H-style" design, with two independently adjustable
> loops connected by a third piece of material."
>
> By contrast, the walking jacket has three straps that are independently
> adjustable and more conducive to a comfortable fit. The jacket is not
> bulky at all (I have two of different sizes and have used them often)
> and would be fine to use for the bus trips. I have a friend that moved
> cross country by car and kept a walking jacket on her cat the entire
> time as a safety measure and he was just fine and quite comfortable.
>
> Megan
>
>
>
> "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> nothing."
>
> -Edmund Burke
>
> Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
> http://www.stopdeclaw.com
>
> Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
> http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
>
> "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
> elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
> splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
> providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
> raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
> material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
> way."
>
> - W.H. Murray
>
>

I have to agree with this. Years ago -- when I still had my first cat --
someone recommended a figure-8 harness. They said it would prevent injury
to the cat it he ran and "spun" at the end of the leash because the pressure
would be placed on the back of the neck. Well, I bought one but then did
not use it because it was obvious to me that there was a danger of choking.
The 2 pieces of the harness could easily slide within the the little band
that holds them, and I felt that unusual or sudden movement by my cat could
cause the harness to tighten and possibly choke my cat.

MaryL

Phil P.
September 19th 05, 02:19 AM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:K2oXe.3120

> The 2 pieces of the harness could easily slide within the the little band
> that holds them, and I felt that unusual or sudden movement by my cat
could
> cause the harness to tighten and possibly choke my cat.

There are several brands- so, I don't know which one you had. The Four Paws
brand harness has a lock that prevents the harness from tightening (or
loosening).

The H-harnesses and "Walking Jackets" are fine, too, *if* the cat can handle
being wrapped up like a hotdog; some cats can't. In fact some cats can't
handle any collar or harness- so the lighter and less confining the harness
is while still providing proper restraint, the better.

Phil

Topaz
September 19th 05, 02:28 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> news:K2oXe.3120
>
> > The 2 pieces of the harness could easily slide within the the little
band
> > that holds them, and I felt that unusual or sudden movement by my cat
> could
> > cause the harness to tighten and possibly choke my cat.
>
> There are several brands- so, I don't know which one you had. The Four
Paws
> brand harness has a lock that prevents the harness from tightening (or
> loosening).
>
> The H-harnesses and "Walking Jackets" are fine, too, *if* the cat can
handle
> being wrapped up like a hotdog; some cats can't. In fact some cats can't
> handle any collar or harness- so the lighter and less confining the
harness
> is while still providing proper restraint, the better.
>

Well it is nice to have all this information on harnesses, and even better
from those of you who are polite.

Elizabeth Blake
September 19th 05, 05:11 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> They're less bulky and don't make the cat feel so restricted- I think
> they're less stressful for the cat. All you have to do is adjust the
> tightness so your pinky can just barely slide between the harness and the
> cat. They work perfectly.
>
> Phil

I think it would just be easier if I avoid opening the carrier at all on the
bus. She is getting ansty in there on the trips now, but I'd rather be safe
than sorry. I had a harness maybe 8-9 years ago for Tiger, when she was
still a working cat. The entire thing was elastic, and she got out of it in
the blink of an eye so I've never attempted to use one since.

As for Harriet, I've had my bedroom door open most of the time I've been
home. When I had to go out, I shut the door. There's still a lot of
hissing & growling when Harriet sees either of my cats, and Otto is now
growling/hissing back. Last weekend he pretty much ignored her. Tiger
still does not care at all about Harriet. Harriet has been coming out of
the bedroom when the door is open. She stays right outside the door but if
my two weren't in sight she'd move out a little into the living room. About
half an hour ago I could tell she really wanted to come out so I locked mine
in the bedroom and let her roam for awhile. While I was in the kitchen, she
founf the litter box in the bathroom and left another chocolate pudding
deposit. I'm not sure if it's still the effects of the enams she got at the
vet's, or if the lactulose dose is too high. I'm going to call them
tomorrow to ask about this.

She fought like crazy when I gave her the lactulose dose at dinnertime.
Much of it got on her fur and on me. The stuff is like Krazy Glue when it
gets in her fur but she's not cooperative enough to let me try to wash it
off. I also filled a syringe with water, but she was still so upset over
the lactulose that I had a hard time getting it in her. I finally did and
it really did help. She didn't drool/spit any of the lactulose on my bed
this time, which mad eme happy since I just changed the sheets this
afternoon.

--
Liz

-L.
September 19th 05, 05:51 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>
> I think it would just be easier if I avoid opening the carrier at all on the
> bus. She is getting ansty in there on the trips now, but I'd rather be safe
> than sorry.

FWIW, I would ditch the Sherpa, if you get the chance. a frightened
cat can dig its way out of them, they are impossible to clean if and
when they get soiled (blood, vomit, pee and poop) and it is nearly
impossible to get an uncooperative cat into one, if they are *really*
stressed out. I have found the plastic cat carriers with the metal
grates/doors on the top and side are the easiest to use - you have the
option of opening the top or the side to place the cat in. One
downside is that they are usually smallish in size so not suitable for
larger cats. Petmate makes a nice one:
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444177 9609&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033664&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1127105020232

> I had a harness maybe 8-9 years ago for Tiger, when she was
> still a working cat. The entire thing was elastic, and she got out of it in
> the blink of an eye so I've never attempted to use one since.

I ditched my figure-8 harness for the reasons MaryL cited, and bought
one that has fixed straps that go around the neck and tummy - a
regular small dog harness. I have used it for years with my big guy,
Peewee, with much success.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444181 1049&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032961&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023689&bmUID=1127105118813


>
> As for Harriet, I've had my bedroom door open most of the time I've been
> home. When I had to go out, I shut the door. There's still a lot of
> hissing & growling when Harriet sees either of my cats, and Otto is now
> growling/hissing back. Last weekend he pretty much ignored her. Tiger
> still does not care at all about Harriet. Harriet has been coming out of
> the bedroom when the door is open. She stays right outside the door but if
> my two weren't in sight she'd move out a little into the living room. About
> half an hour ago I could tell she really wanted to come out so I locked mine
> in the bedroom and let her roam for awhile. While I was in the kitchen, she
> founf the litter box in the bathroom and left another chocolate pudding
> deposit. I'm not sure if it's still the effects of the enams she got at the
> vet's, or if the lactulose dose is too high. I'm going to call them
> tomorrow to ask about this.

It sometimes takes more than 24 hours for stools to return to normal
after enemas.

>
> She fought like crazy when I gave her the lactulose dose at dinnertime.
> Much of it got on her fur and on me. The stuff is like Krazy Glue when it
> gets in her fur but she's not cooperative enough to let me try to wash it
> off. I also filled a syringe with water, but she was still so upset over
> the lactulose that I had a hard time getting it in her. I finally did and
> it really did help. She didn't drool/spit any of the lactulose on my bed
> this time, which mad eme happy since I just changed the sheets this
> afternoon.

I *hate* lactulose. I think it's the worst veterinary remedy they
market. Ask about flavorings for it - if your vet doesn't have them, a
pharmacy will.
http://www.flavorx.com/

-L.

-L.
September 19th 05, 07:47 AM
wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm glad to hear Harriet is getting care from the new vet and things are
> looking up a bit. As far as a harness goes, ignore Phil's recommendation
> about a figure 8 harness. They are worthless and I would never use one.
> If you want an excellent harness that is pretty escape proof once it's
> adjusted properly, the walking jacket is your best bet:
> http://www.metpet.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/walkingjacket.html

I had never seen one of these. I like the fact that it has two bands
going around the chest under the arms - seems like it would alleviate
the cat's desire to try to pull his front legs out of the restraint.
Peewee will still try to back out of his harness every once in awhile
eventhough he's worn it 14 years or so...

-L.

Phil P.
September 19th 05, 09:14 AM
"-L." > wrote in message

> I ditched my figure-8 harness for the reasons MaryL cited,

I had no idea people found the figure 8s so difficult to adjust. I found it
easier than lacing a pair of sneakers.

Phil

Wendy
September 19th 05, 12:02 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>>
>> I think it would just be easier if I avoid opening the carrier at all on
>> the
>> bus. She is getting ansty in there on the trips now, but I'd rather be
>> safe
>> than sorry.
>
> FWIW, I would ditch the Sherpa, if you get the chance. a frightened
> cat can dig its way out of them, they are impossible to clean if and
> when they get soiled (blood, vomit, pee and poop) and it is nearly
> impossible to get an uncooperative cat into one, if they are *really*
> stressed out. I have found the plastic cat carriers with the metal
> grates/doors on the top and side are the easiest to use - you have the
> option of opening the top or the side to place the cat in. One
> downside is that they are usually smallish in size so not suitable for
> larger cats. Petmate makes a nice one:
> http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444177 9609&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033664&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1127105020232
>


I have Petmate double door carriers in 3 different sizes. I got my big one
to transport 3 5-6 mo. old brothers I was fostering to PetSmart on the
weekends last winter. It weighed a ton with those three in it but I didn't
have carrier room in the car to separate them. That one is overkill unless
you have a huge cat. The medium sized one will fit most cats comfortably.
Many of the cats I transport seem to be more comfortable in the 2-door
cages - they feel less confined maybe. However you have to be very careful
with the top door. The latches can slide and then the door will flip open
when you pick up the carrier. Not a problem as long as you remember to
double check that the latches have 'clicked' into position before lifting
the carrier.

W

> -L.
>

MaryL
September 19th 05, 12:11 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>I took Harriet to the cats only vet this morning.
Good! This report sounds like you have found a much more informed vet.

>I didn't ask how expensive "expensive" meant. My boss already spent more
>than $1,000 at the other place. Today I brought her in before going to
>work and left a deposit on my card. My boss said to pay the balance and
>he'd repay me.
I'm really impressed with your boss. I don't think I have ever heard of
another employer who did that much. Please tell him he's made a lot of
friends and admirers on this newsgroup.
>
> Liz
>

--
MaryL

-L.
September 19th 05, 11:25 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "-L." > wrote in message
>
> > I ditched my figure-8 harness for the reasons MaryL cited,
>
> I had no idea people found the figure 8s so difficult to adjust. I found it
> easier than lacing a pair of sneakers.
>
> Phil

You mentioned that the one you have has fixed connections so that they
don't move once the thing is adjusted. The one I used was basically an
open figure 8, so when the cat stretched the collar portion, it
squeezed his mid section, and vice-verse. So once it started pulling
and squeezing, he freaked out. It did this no matter how tight or
loose I adjusted it. So, I dumped it. From what you posted, it sounds
like they may have improved the design since then (this was 12-14 years
ago). I think this is why there is a discrepancy between your
experiences and those of Mary, Megan and mine.

-L.

Phil P.
September 20th 05, 01:10 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > "-L." > wrote in message
> >
> > > I ditched my figure-8 harness for the reasons MaryL cited,
> >
> > I had no idea people found the figure 8s so difficult to adjust. I
found it
> > easier than lacing a pair of sneakers.
> >
> > Phil
>
> You mentioned that the one you have has fixed connections so that they
> don't move once the thing is adjusted.


Yup. After the slack is adjusted, you slide the locking mechanism to the
right. That locks the slack of the loops so the loops don't loosen or
tighten when the cat pulls.



The one I used was basically an
> open figure 8, so when the cat stretched the collar portion, it
> squeezed his mid section, and vice-verse. So once it started pulling
> and squeezing, he freaked out. It did this no matter how tight or
> loose I adjusted it. So, I dumped it.


That type sounds like a hangman's noose! The harness I described doesn't
tighten when the cat pulls- I wouldn't use it if it did.



From what you posted, it sounds
> like they may have improved the design since then (this was 12-14 years
> ago). I think this is why there is a discrepancy between your
> experiences and those of Mary, Megan and mine.

Probably.

Don't get me wrong: If the cat can handle a full harness- great. Use it.
I just thought a lighter and thinner figure 8 harness would be more
comfortable and less bulky and stressful than a full harness for restraining
a cat in a carrier.

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 20th 05, 03:08 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>>
>> I think it would just be easier if I avoid opening the carrier at all on
>> the
>> bus. She is getting ansty in there on the trips now, but I'd rather be
>> safe
>> than sorry.
>
> FWIW, I would ditch the Sherpa, if you get the chance. a frightened
> cat can dig its way out of them, they are impossible to clean if and
> when they get soiled (blood, vomit, pee and poop) and it is nearly
> impossible to get an uncooperative cat into one, if they are *really*
> stressed out. I have found the plastic cat carriers with the metal
> grates/doors on the top and side are the easiest to use - you have the
> option of opening the top or the side to place the cat in. One
> downside is that they are usually smallish in size so not suitable for
> larger cats. Petmate makes a nice one:

Harriet was declawed by her original owner(s) so I'm not too worried about
her ripping the bag open. She does think she can head-butt it open, though.
It is hard pushing her in, especially now that she's made so many trips in
it. But, I'm in NYC and rely on public transportation and the Sherpa is the
best way to go. On the bus, if it's crowded and I can't use an extra seat
for her, the bag fits comfortable on my lap. It would be miserable having a
big plastic crate in my lap and probably not fun for anyone sitting next to
me.


> I *hate* lactulose. I think it's the worst veterinary remedy they
> market. Ask about flavorings for it - if your vet doesn't have them, a
> pharmacy will.
> http://www.flavorx.com/
>
> -L.

I think I will have to look into that, because she's fighting me worse every
time. The poor baby's fur is coated in it, the sides of her face and her
throat/chin. I know she's trying to scratch it out. I cut one clump out
tonight that she had partially pulled out. She's not too happy when I try
to clean her up either.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
September 20th 05, 03:13 AM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
>>I took Harriet to the cats only vet this morning.
> Good! This report sounds like you have found a much more informed vet.
>
>>I didn't ask how expensive "expensive" meant. My boss already spent more
>>than $1,000 at the other place. Today I brought her in before going to
>>work and left a deposit on my card. My boss said to pay the balance and
>>he'd repay me.
> I'm really impressed with your boss. I don't think I have ever heard of
> another employer who did that much. Please tell him he's made a lot of
> friends and admirers on this newsgroup.
>>
>> Liz
>>
>
> --
> MaryL

Harriet's bills come on top of Minnie's bills. Minnie is the resident cat
at one of our other stores. Last (?) year or so she was diagnosed with
diabetes. She's on insulin shots and some other medication and prescription
food. Recently she attempted to jump onto something and missed, and really
hurt her paw. I'm guessing that these will be the last rounds of store cats
we get to have!

--
Liz

Phil P.
September 20th 05, 04:45 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
news:aaKXe.554

> I think I will have to look into that, because she's fighting me worse
every
> time. The poor baby's fur is coated in it, the sides of her face and her
> throat/chin.

At this point, I think using flavored lactulose is absolutely necessary.
The lactulose doesn't seem to be working because she's probably not
ingesting enough of the dose to produce the desired results. This is also
probably making her condition seem worse than it actually is.

If you can get the whole dose into her, you might find out that she may not
need 4 ml/2x/day. Also, the money that you'll save by not wasting >1/2 of
the dose will more than offset the slightly higher cost of flavoring.

I think you should get the flavored lactulose ASAP.

Good luck.

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 20th 05, 05:30 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> news:aaKXe.554
>
>> I think I will have to look into that, because she's fighting me worse
> every
>> time. The poor baby's fur is coated in it, the sides of her face and her
>> throat/chin.
>
> At this point, I think using flavored lactulose is absolutely necessary.
> The lactulose doesn't seem to be working because she's probably not
> ingesting enough of the dose to produce the desired results. This is also
> probably making her condition seem worse than it actually is.
>
> If you can get the whole dose into her, you might find out that she may
> not
> need 4 ml/2x/day. Also, the money that you'll save by not wasting >1/2 of
> the dose will more than offset the slightly higher cost of flavoring.
>
> I think you should get the flavored lactulose ASAP.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Phil

Phil,

It's only been since yesterday that she really started to fight. When I
picked her up on Saturday, they instructed me to up her dose to 4ml twice a
day. When she was only getting 1 or 2ml at a time, I got it all in her
(except for the first time or two in the very beginning). I guess she draws
the line at 4ml. Also, today the office called me to ask how Harriet was
doing. I told the woman who called that she had very loose BMs both
Saturday & Sunday nights. A few monutes later the vet tech called and said
that I should skip giving her the 4ml dose tonight, and just give her 4ml
once a day in the morning. I'm worried that if I do that, she'll end up not
going at all again. Wouldn't it be better to continue giving it to her
twice a day, but cut back the dose each time? If I only give it to her once
a day, she'll be getting the same amount as before, only she'll be getting
it all at once. Since she fought so hard this morning and a lot of it went
all over her & me, I drew some more up in the syringe (maybe 1.5ml) and got
most of that into her, but I can't be sure how much went down total. She
has not had a BM today so far.

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask about going back tot wice a day
and I'll ask if I can get it flavored. If the vet doesn't have it, is there
an online pharmacy that sells it if I get a prescription?

--
Liz

Phil P.
September 20th 05, 09:42 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
k.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> > news:aaKXe.554
> >
> >> I think I will have to look into that, because she's fighting me worse
> > every
> >> time. The poor baby's fur is coated in it, the sides of her face and
her
> >> throat/chin.
> >
> > At this point, I think using flavored lactulose is absolutely necessary.
> > The lactulose doesn't seem to be working because she's probably not
> > ingesting enough of the dose to produce the desired results. This is
also
> > probably making her condition seem worse than it actually is.
> >
> > If you can get the whole dose into her, you might find out that she may
> > not
> > need 4 ml/2x/day. Also, the money that you'll save by not wasting >1/2
of
> > the dose will more than offset the slightly higher cost of flavoring.
> >
> > I think you should get the flavored lactulose ASAP.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Phil
>
> Phil,
>
> It's only been since yesterday that she really started to fight. When I
> picked her up on Saturday, they instructed me to up her dose to 4ml twice
a
> day. When she was only getting 1 or 2ml at a time, I got it all in her
> (except for the first time or two in the very beginning). I guess she
draws
> the line at 4ml.


You don't have to give her the whole dose at in one shot. If she handled a
2 ml dose, I'd give her two, 2 ml doses about 15 min-to1/2 hour apart. Just
be sure to give her a few mls of water after each dose. 4 ml of the
nasty-tasting stuff is hard to take- its almost a teaspoon.




Also, today the office called me to ask how Harriet was
> doing. I told the woman who called that she had very loose BMs both
> Saturday & Sunday nights. A few monutes later the vet tech called and
said
> that I should skip giving her the 4ml dose tonight, and just give her 4ml
> once a day in the morning. I'm worried that if I do that, she'll end up
not
> going at all again.

I'd be worried, too. I'd want to speak to the vet about this. Are you sure
the vet tech is a vet tech and not just an assistant? I'd let the loose
stools flow for a day or two to make sure it wasn't an isolated incident.
If the loose stools continued for 2 days, then I might reduce the dose.
Skipping a dose right now might back her up again.


Wouldn't it be better to continue giving it to her
> twice a day, but cut back the dose each time?


I think so. But I wouldn't reduce the dose just yet.


If I only give it to her once
> a day, she'll be getting the same amount as before, only she'll be getting
> it all at once. Since she fought so hard this morning and a lot of it
went
> all over her & me, I drew some more up in the syringe (maybe 1.5ml) and
got
> most of that into her, but I can't be sure how much went down total. She
> has not had a BM today so far.


Has she been eating today?


>
> I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask about going back tot wice a day
> and I'll ask if I can get it flavored. If the vet doesn't have it, is
there
> an online pharmacy that sells it if I get a prescription?


Many. However, there are many compounding pharmacies in NYC. All you need
is a prescription. If you need help finding a local one, let me know. In
the meantime, give Town a call: http://www.towntotal.com/

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 20th 05, 05:17 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> You don't have to give her the whole dose at in one shot. If she handled a
> 2 ml dose, I'd give her two, 2 ml doses about 15 min-to1/2 hour apart. Just
> be sure to give her a few mls of water after each dose. 4 ml of the
> nasty-tasting stuff is hard to take- its almost a teaspoon.

The smaller syringe that the first vet gave me is easier to use, too.
The nozzle part is longer, but that syringe only holds 3ml. The 6ml
syringe the current vet gave has a very short nozzle so it's harder to
get into her. I'll try splitting the dose.


> Also, today the office called me to ask how Harriet was
> > doing. I told the woman who called that she had very loose BMs both
> > Saturday & Sunday nights. A few monutes later the vet tech called and
> said
> > that I should skip giving her the 4ml dose tonight, and just give her 4ml
> > once a day in the morning. I'm worried that if I do that, she'll end up
> not
> > going at all again.
>
> I'd be worried, too. I'd want to speak to the vet about this. Are you sure
> the vet tech is a vet tech and not just an assistant? I'd let the loose
> stools flow for a day or two to make sure it wasn't an isolated incident.
> If the loose stools continued for 2 days, then I might reduce the dose.
> Skipping a dose right now might back her up again.

I called them back today to clarify the instructions and was told to
continue giving it to her twice a day, and that last night was the only
dose to be skipped.

> Wouldn't it be better to continue giving it to her
> > twice a day, but cut back the dose each time?
>
>
> I think so. But I wouldn't reduce the dose just yet.

I attempted the 4ml this morning, we both got coated in it, and I
managed to squirt in close to 2ml after that using the old syringe, so
I think she got most/all of the dose.


> Has she been eating today?

Her appetite isn't that great. Monday morning I gave her 1/3 can of
Wellness and pressed some dry Eukanubu low residue dry kibble into it.
I decided to leave the bowl down for her and now I can't remember if
there was anything left when I got home. My short term memory really,
really sucks. I left the bowl down again this morning and if I send
myself an e-mail, I'll remember wheat happened tomorrow. Last night
she didn't eat much of her dinner (same as breakfast). She will perk
up at the sound of any kind of treat bag/can being opened. I gave her
a few moist treats and a small piece of freeze dried chicken.


> > I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask about going back tot wice a day
> > and I'll ask if I can get it flavored. If the vet doesn't have it, is
> there
> > an online pharmacy that sells it if I get a prescription?
>
>
> Many. However, there are many compounding pharmacies in NYC. All you need
> is a prescription. If you need help finding a local one, let me know. In
> the meantime, give Town a call: http://www.towntotal.com/
>
> Phil

I asked the vet about it and she gave me the name of the place they
recommens. I tried calling them and after going through a huge phone
menu I was on hold for 15 minutes so I gave up. I might just get a
written prescription from the vet and go in person. While on hold I
heard the recording talk about the Flavor RX system, and how they
flavor medications for animals.

--
Liz

Phil P.
September 21st 05, 12:10 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Phil P. wrote:
>
> > You don't have to give her the whole dose at in one shot. If she
handled a
> > 2 ml dose, I'd give her two, 2 ml doses about 15 min-to1/2 hour apart.
Just
> > be sure to give her a few mls of water after each dose. 4 ml of the
> > nasty-tasting stuff is hard to take- its almost a teaspoon.
>
> The smaller syringe that the first vet gave me is easier to use, too.
> The nozzle part is longer, but that syringe only holds 3ml. The 6ml
> syringe the current vet gave has a very short nozzle so it's harder to
> get into her. I'll try splitting the dose.


Let me know if it helps.


>
>
> > Also, today the office called me to ask how Harriet was
> > > doing. I told the woman who called that she had very loose BMs both
> > > Saturday & Sunday nights. A few monutes later the vet tech called and
> > said
> > > that I should skip giving her the 4ml dose tonight, and just give her
4ml
> > > once a day in the morning. I'm worried that if I do that, she'll end
up
> > not
> > > going at all again.
> >
> > I'd be worried, too. I'd want to speak to the vet about this. Are you
sure
> > the vet tech is a vet tech and not just an assistant? I'd let the loose
> > stools flow for a day or two to make sure it wasn't an isolated
incident.
> > If the loose stools continued for 2 days, then I might reduce the dose.
> > Skipping a dose right now might back her up again.
>
> I called them back today to clarify the instructions and was told to
> continue giving it to her twice a day, and that last night was the only
> dose to be skipped.


That's a relief.


>
> > Wouldn't it be better to continue giving it to her
> > > twice a day, but cut back the dose each time?
> >
> >
> > I think so. But I wouldn't reduce the dose just yet.
>
> I attempted the 4ml this morning, we both got coated in it, and I
> managed to squirt in close to 2ml after that using the old syringe, so
> I think she got most/all of the dose.


I think dosing her will be much easier with the flavored lactulose.


>
>
> > Has she been eating today?
>
> Her appetite isn't that great. Monday morning I gave her 1/3 can of
> Wellness and pressed some dry Eukanubu low residue dry kibble into it.
> I decided to leave the bowl down for her and now I can't remember if
> there was anything left when I got home. My short term memory really,
> really sucks. I left the bowl down again this morning and if I send
> myself an e-mail, I'll remember wheat happened tomorrow. Last night
> she didn't eat much of her dinner (same as breakfast). She will perk
> up at the sound of any kind of treat bag/can being opened. I gave her
> a few moist treats and a small piece of freeze dried chicken.


She's got to eat. Try a can of Fancy Feast Grilled Chicken in Gravy.


>
>
> > > I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask about going back tot wice a
day
> > > and I'll ask if I can get it flavored. If the vet doesn't have it, is
> > there
> > > an online pharmacy that sells it if I get a prescription?
> >
> >
> > Many. However, there are many compounding pharmacies in NYC. All you
need
> > is a prescription. If you need help finding a local one, let me know.
In
> > the meantime, give Town a call: http://www.towntotal.com/
> >
> > Phil
>
> I asked the vet about it and she gave me the name of the place they
> recommens. I tried calling them and after going through a huge phone
> menu I was on hold for 15 minutes so I gave up. I might just get a
> written prescription from the vet and go in person. While on hold I
> heard the recording talk about the Flavor RX system, and how they
> flavor medications for animals.


Please get her the flavored lactulose ASAP. Please. ;-)

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 21st 05, 09:05 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> > The smaller syringe that the first vet gave me is easier to use, too.
> > The nozzle part is longer, but that syringe only holds 3ml. The 6ml
> > syringe the current vet gave has a very short nozzle so it's harder to
> > get into her. I'll try splitting the dose.
>
>
> Let me know if it helps.

I did split the dose this morning but she still ended up
spitting/drooling some out. Not as much as before, and since I wrapped
her securely in a towel I didn't get it all over me this time. I also
gave her some water after.


> > I called them back today to clarify the instructions and was told to
> > continue giving it to her twice a day, and that last night was the only
> > dose to be skipped.
>
>
> That's a relief.

She had both doses (as much as I could get into her) yesterday but
didn't have a BM. I'm getting worried, since Sunday night was her last
(loose) BM. The vet said if she doesn't go for 3 days I should try the
enema. I'll be lucky if Harriet ever wants to be near me again after
this.


> I think dosing her will be much easier with the flavored lactulose.

I just picked it up - chicken flavor. To me, it smells gross. I
opened the bottle and gave it to Stinky to sniff, and she didn't recoil
or make that funny "I smell something weird" face. I then had a
co-worker smell it and he said it does smell chicken-y, so I guess it's
just me.


> She's got to eat. Try a can of Fancy Feast Grilled Chicken in Gravy.

The vet also uses Fancy Feast when they're trying to get a cat to eat.
I'll pick up a couple of cans today. She does eat what I give her in
the morning, but she likes to leave it & go back 50 times. I know I
shouldn't leave wet food down for too long, but yesterday & today I let
her keep the bowl and left for work. Yesterday I tried giving her some
Wysong chicken, the stuff with nothing but chicken/chicken organs. I
know it's not meant to be a regular diet but I was hoping she'd react
better. She ate some (with dry kibble in it) but left most, as she's
been doing most nights. Tiger & Otto found it later when I opened the
door and thought they stumbled into a cat candy store, and gobbled it
up.


> Please get her the flavored lactulose ASAP. Please. ;-)
>
> Phil

The vet called in the prescription yesterday but I had no time to pick
it up until this afternoon. Even with the flavoring added it's cheaper
than what the other vet charges. I hope it makes tonight dose go down
easier.

--
Liz

Cheryl
September 22nd 05, 02:56 AM
On Wed 21 Sep 2005 04:05:07p, Elizabeth Blake wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):

> The vet called in the prescription yesterday but I had no time
> to pick it up until this afternoon. Even with the flavoring
> added it's cheaper than what the other vet charges. I hope it
> makes tonight dose go down easier.

Still hanging in there with you for Harriet. I remember how hard
lactulose was to give, and here's hoping the flavored stuff works out
better. I have nothing to say, just that we're thinking of you guys.
I remember how hard the whole constipation thing was and how
frustrating for Marley. Purrs for Harriet.

--
Cheryl

Elizabeth Blake
September 22nd 05, 03:05 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> Still hanging in there with you for Harriet. I remember how hard
> lactulose was to give, and here's hoping the flavored stuff works out
> better. I have nothing to say, just that we're thinking of you guys.
> I remember how hard the whole constipation thing was and how
> frustrating for Marley. Purrs for Harriet.
>
> --
> Cheryl

It *was* much easier to get the flavored Lactulose in her. She had fought
like crazy up to this morning's (non-flavored) dose and she started to
struggle tonight. I squirted a little into her mouth and she stopped
struggling. Before she would start drooling, which made the Lactulose that
actually got inside her mouth ooze out. I let my two cats sniff it before
going in the room to dose Harriet and they were interested in the smell.

I bought some Fancy Feast tonight to try to encourage her to eat. There
were about 30 flavors and I just went to the drugstore by my job, not a big
supermarket. I avoided anything that said sliced, chunks or flakes and
bought several different kinds. The one I opened tonight was some sort of
flaky chunk and she only licked the gravy off. I gave her a little low
residue dry and she ate most of that, but not all. She did eat all of the
food I left her this morning.

The best part is that I went in to check on her about a half hour ago and a
very unpleasant smell hit me when I opened the door. I checked the box and
there were two turds sitting in the litter. They were very soft & smelly,
but they were formed turds and not a puddle. I plan on keeping her home
through at least the weekend and if she continues to have BMs I'll consider
bringing her back to work. Stinky will be upset if Harriet wants her bed
back, though. She's become very fond of it.

--
Liz

Cheryl
September 23rd 05, 12:50 AM
On Wed 21 Sep 2005 10:05:30p, Elizabeth Blake wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ink.net):

> It *was* much easier to get the flavored Lactulose in her. She
> had fought like crazy up to this morning's (non-flavored) dose
> and she started to struggle tonight. I squirted a little into
> her mouth and she stopped struggling. Before she would start
> drooling, which made the Lactulose that actually got inside her
> mouth ooze out. I let my two cats sniff it before going in the
> room to dose Harriet and they were interested in the smell.
>
> I bought some Fancy Feast tonight to try to encourage her to
> eat. There were about 30 flavors and I just went to the
> drugstore by my job, not a big supermarket. I avoided anything
> that said sliced, chunks or flakes and bought several different
> kinds. The one I opened tonight was some sort of flaky chunk
> and she only licked the gravy off. I gave her a little low
> residue dry and she ate most of that, but not all. She did eat
> all of the food I left her this morning.
>
> The best part is that I went in to check on her about a half
> hour ago and a very unpleasant smell hit me when I opened the
> door. I checked the box and there were two turds sitting in the
> litter. They were very soft & smelly, but they were formed
> turds and not a puddle. I plan on keeping her home through at
> least the weekend and if she continues to have BMs I'll consider
> bringing her back to work. Stinky will be upset if Harriet
> wants her bed back, though. She's become very fond of it.

Amazing how a little cat poo can make us so happy sometimes! Been
there! :(

Good news about the lactulose, and hope it keeps up and helps! As
for FF and the flavors that my cats can't resist but I don't feed
it often is the Flaked Fish and Shrimp. Dark Blue label. Kitty
Crack. Go Harriet!! purrs.....

--
Cheryl

Phil P.
September 23rd 05, 01:04 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
nk.net...


> It *was* much easier to get the flavored Lactulose in her. She had fought
> like crazy up to this morning's (non-flavored) dose and she started to
> struggle tonight. I squirted a little into her mouth and she stopped
> struggling.


About time! ;-) It would have saved her and you a lot of stress if the
first vet prescribed the flavored lactulose from the beginning. It would
have probably saved her a couple of tips to the vet for enemas.

If she starts to reject the lactulose again, try a different flavor- fish or
turkey *right away*. Don't wait another two weeks, otherwise, she could
back up again and wind up in the hospital again. Lactulose is so cheap that
I'd keep another flavor on hand so she doesn't miss a dose.

How's she handling the cisapride?



>
> I bought some Fancy Feast tonight to try to encourage her to eat. There
> were about 30 flavors and I just went to the drugstore by my job, not a
big
> supermarket. I avoided anything that said sliced, chunks or flakes and
> bought several different kinds. The one I opened tonight was some sort of
> flaky chunk and she only licked the gravy off. I gave her a little low
> residue dry and she ate most of that, but not all. She did eat all of the
> food I left her this morning.


Seems like she was eating more of the Wellness. If she's not eating at
least 70% of her daily caloric requirement, you might want to speak to your
vet about Periactin- it works as appetite stimulant in cats.



>
> The best part is that I went in to check on her about a half hour ago and
a
> very unpleasant smell hit me when I opened the door. I checked the box
and
> there were two turds sitting in the litter.


That's great. Only people who've treated constipated cats can fully
appreciate the beauty of a turd! LOL!




They were very soft & smelly,
> but they were formed turds and not a puddle.


I wouldn't taper the dose just yet.


I plan on keeping her home
> through at least the weekend and if she continues to have BMs I'll
consider
> bringing her back to work.



I would keep her home until the manager is finally gone.


Stinky will be upset if Harriet wants her bed
> back, though. She's become very fond of it.


She probably misses her. Cats form little communities and very close
friendships. I'd bet Stinky will be happy to see her again- although the
strange scents from your home might precipitate a few initial hisses.
Before you bring her back to the store, you might want to rub Stinky down
with a sock and then rub Harriet down with the same sock to transfer her
scent to Harriet and mask the scents of your cats. This also avoids "after
the vet" hisses between resident cats.

Good luck,

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 23rd 05, 05:06 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>
>> It *was* much easier to get the flavored Lactulose in her. She had
>> fought
>> like crazy up to this morning's (non-flavored) dose and she started to
>> struggle tonight. I squirted a little into her mouth and she stopped
>> struggling.
>
>
> About time! ;-) It would have saved her and you a lot of stress if the
> first vet prescribed the flavored lactulose from the beginning. It would
> have probably saved her a couple of tips to the vet for enemas.
>
> If she starts to reject the lactulose again, try a different flavor- fish
> or
> turkey *right away*. Don't wait another two weeks, otherwise, she could
> back up again and wind up in the hospital again. Lactulose is so cheap
> that
> I'd keep another flavor on hand so she doesn't miss a dose.

She was good about taking the Lactulose at the 1ml and 2ml doses. The
struggle started when it went up to 4ml. I do have refills for it so I will
ask about another flavor. I know that when I first called, other flavors
mentioned were bacon and liver. She's never shown an interest in fish, even
canned (human) tuna. She does like C.E.T. chews, and I think those are just
freeze-dried fish though.

> How's she handling the cisapride?

No problems as far as I can tell. I get them down her throat easily enough.
I'll have to get a refill on that soon. Is there a limit to how long they
should/can be on it?


>> I bought some Fancy Feast tonight to try to encourage her to eat. There
>> were about 30 flavors and I just went to the drugstore by my job, not a
> big
>> supermarket. I avoided anything that said sliced, chunks or flakes and
>> bought several different kinds. The one I opened tonight was some sort
>> of
>> flaky chunk and she only licked the gravy off. I gave her a little low
>> residue dry and she ate most of that, but not all. She did eat all of
>> the
>> food I left her this morning.
>
>
> Seems like she was eating more of the Wellness. If she's not eating at
> least 70% of her daily caloric requirement, you might want to speak to
> your
> vet about Periactin- it works as appetite stimulant in cats.

I tried a different flavor of Fancy feast this morning and she wouldn't even
go near the bowl. I took it away amd mixed some Wellness and Wysong
together, and added some kibble and left it for her. She ate about 3/4 of
it during the day. I won't give her any more of the Wysong chicken because
she doesn't seem to like it. My two think it's candy.


>> The best part is that I went in to check on her about a half hour ago and
> a
>> very unpleasant smell hit me when I opened the door. I checked the box
> and
>> there were two turds sitting in the litter.
>
>
> That's great. Only people who've treated constipated cats can fully
> appreciate the beauty of a turd! LOL!

Nothing else in the box (other than pee clumps) since last night but my
fingers are crossed. I don't even mind having to get up once I'm already in
bed to scoop the box if it means that she's gone.


> I plan on keeping her home
>> through at least the weekend and if she continues to have BMs I'll
> consider
>> bringing her back to work.

> I would keep her home until the manager is finally gone.

I actually would feel guilty if she left without getting to see Harriet
again. She really does love her, but she needs to realize that she doesn't
know everything. I'm not afraid that she'll try to take her away on her
last day. She knows that she wouldn't be able to afford her vet bills. She
already has one cat with a chronic condition (15 year old with hyper (i
think) thyroid).


> Stinky will be upset if Harriet wants her bed
>> back, though. She's become very fond of it.
>
>
> She probably misses her. Cats form little communities and very close
> friendships. I'd bet Stinky will be happy to see her again- although the
> strange scents from your home might precipitate a few initial hisses.
> Before you bring her back to the store, you might want to rub Stinky down
> with a sock and then rub Harriet down with the same sock to transfer her
> scent to Harriet and mask the scents of your cats. This also avoids
> "after
> the vet" hisses between resident cats.

Stinky *might* miss Harriet a little, but Harriet would love it if Stinky
vanished. They don't play together, they don't like being too close to each
other. Harriet used to run to the top of the stairs if she heard Stinky
coming up from the basement, and then she'd smack her and try to force her
back down into the basement. If Harriet goes by Stinky's special area in
the back of the basement, Stinky will smack her. If Harriet so much as even
looks at Stinky's carpeted cat furniture, she'll get whacked. For awhile,
Harriet wouldn't even let Stinky into the front of the basement. Harriet
goes through phases where she seems afraid of Stinky, and that will turn
into her attacking Stinky whenever she sees her. Stinky will sometimes jump
on Harriet, but she does it in play. Harriet does NOT play, so she'll try
to kill Stinky. Stinky will usually run and hide. If I pick Stinky up and
restrain her front paws, I can bring her to Harriet and tell Harriet to give
her a kiss. Harriet will then happily clean Stinky's head, face & ears
until Stinky gets a paw loose and smacks her. Even if Harriet had just been
beating Stinky, she'll always wash her if I bring Stinky over.

Harriet has been coming out of my bedroom more, even if it means walking
past Otto. She hisses & growls at him but she's come over to me twice in
the past half hour to rub against my legs and jump on the desk. She'll
still hiss & growl at Tiger but not nearly as much as with Otto. Maybe the
fact that Tiger totally ignores her helps.

--
Liz

Phil P.
September 25th 05, 11:59 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >
> >
> >> It *was* much easier to get the flavored Lactulose in her. She had
> >> fought
> >> like crazy up to this morning's (non-flavored) dose and she started to
> >> struggle tonight. I squirted a little into her mouth and she stopped
> >> struggling.
> >
> >
> > About time! ;-) It would have saved her and you a lot of stress if the
> > first vet prescribed the flavored lactulose from the beginning. It
would
> > have probably saved her a couple of tips to the vet for enemas.
> >
> > If she starts to reject the lactulose again, try a different flavor-
fish
> > or
> > turkey *right away*. Don't wait another two weeks, otherwise, she could
> > back up again and wind up in the hospital again. Lactulose is so cheap
> > that
> > I'd keep another flavor on hand so she doesn't miss a dose.
>
> She was good about taking the Lactulose at the 1ml and 2ml doses. The
> struggle started when it went up to 4ml.


4 ml of anything is a rather large dose for cat. The fact that lactulose
tastes terrible makes it even worse.


I do have refills for it so I will
> ask about another flavor. I know that when I first called, other flavors
> mentioned were bacon and liver. She's never shown an interest in fish,
even
> canned (human) tuna. She does like C.E.T. chews, and I think those are
just
> freeze-dried fish though.


I think most cats love bacon- a little warm bacon fat is also an excellent
flavor enhancer.


>
> > How's she handling the cisapride?
>
> No problems as far as I can tell. I get them down her throat easily
enough.
> I'll have to get a refill on that soon. Is there a limit to how long they
> should/can be on it?


Not that I know of. I've known cats with megacolon that have been on
cisapride and lactulose for *years*.


>
>
> >> I bought some Fancy Feast tonight to try to encourage her to eat.
There
> >> were about 30 flavors and I just went to the drugstore by my job, not a
> > big
> >> supermarket. I avoided anything that said sliced, chunks or flakes
and
> >> bought several different kinds. The one I opened tonight was some sort
> >> of
> >> flaky chunk and she only licked the gravy off. I gave her a little low
> >> residue dry and she ate most of that, but not all. She did eat all of
> >> the
> >> food I left her this morning.
> >
> >
> > Seems like she was eating more of the Wellness. If she's not eating at
> > least 70% of her daily caloric requirement, you might want to speak to
> > your
> > vet about Periactin- it works as appetite stimulant in cats.
>
> I tried a different flavor of Fancy feast this morning and she wouldn't
even
> go near the bowl. I took it away amd mixed some Wellness and Wysong
> together, and added some kibble and left it for her. She ate about 3/4 of
> it during the day. I won't give her any more of the Wysong chicken
because
> she doesn't seem to like it. My two think it's candy.


How much is she eating a day? Would you say at least 1, 5.5 oz. can total?


>
>
> >> The best part is that I went in to check on her about a half hour ago
and
> > a
> >> very unpleasant smell hit me when I opened the door. I checked the box
> > and
> >> there were two turds sitting in the litter.
> >
> >
> > That's great. Only people who've treated constipated cats can fully
> > appreciate the beauty of a turd! LOL!
>
> Nothing else in the box (other than pee clumps) since last night but my
> fingers are crossed. I don't even mind having to get up once I'm already
in
> bed to scoop the box if it means that she's gone.


How has she been doing (going) yesterday and today?


>
>
> > I plan on keeping her home
> >> through at least the weekend and if she continues to have BMs I'll
> > consider
> >> bringing her back to work.
>
> > I would keep her home until the manager is finally gone.
>
> I actually would feel guilty if she left without getting to see Harriet
> again. She really does love her, but she needs to realize that she
doesn't
> know everything. I'm not afraid that she'll try to take her away on her
> last day. She knows that she wouldn't be able to afford her vet bills.
She
> already has one cat with a chronic condition (15 year old with hyper (i
> think) thyroid).


I wouldn't take the chance- especially since she mentioned taking Harriet to
a holistic vet. If she loves Harriet as you say and feels you're not giving
her the care she would- there is certainly a possibility of her taking
Harriet 'for her own good'.


>
>
> > Stinky will be upset if Harriet wants her bed
> >> back, though. She's become very fond of it.
> >
> >
> > She probably misses her. Cats form little communities and very close
> > friendships. I'd bet Stinky will be happy to see her again- although
the
> > strange scents from your home might precipitate a few initial hisses.
> > Before you bring her back to the store, you might want to rub Stinky
down
> > with a sock and then rub Harriet down with the same sock to transfer her
> > scent to Harriet and mask the scents of your cats. This also avoids
> > "after
> > the vet" hisses between resident cats.
>
> Stinky *might* miss Harriet a little, but Harriet would love it if Stinky
> vanished. They don't play together, they don't like being too close to
each
> other. Harriet used to run to the top of the stairs if she heard Stinky
> coming up from the basement, and then she'd smack her and try to force her
> back down into the basement. If Harriet goes by Stinky's special area in
> the back of the basement, Stinky will smack her. If Harriet so much as
even
> looks at Stinky's carpeted cat furniture, she'll get whacked. For awhile,
> Harriet wouldn't even let Stinky into the front of the basement. Harriet
> goes through phases where she seems afraid of Stinky, and that will turn
> into her attacking Stinky whenever she sees her. Stinky will sometimes
jump
> on Harriet, but she does it in play. Harriet does NOT play, so she'll try
> to kill Stinky. Stinky will usually run and hide. If I pick Stinky up
and
> restrain her front paws, I can bring her to Harriet and tell Harriet to
give
> her a kiss. Harriet will then happily clean Stinky's head, face & ears
> until Stinky gets a paw loose and smacks her. Even if Harriet had just
been
> beating Stinky, she'll always wash her if I bring Stinky over.


Sounds like they have a real dynamic relationship! ;-)


>
> Harriet has been coming out of my bedroom more, even if it means walking
> past Otto. She hisses & growls at him but she's come over to me twice in
> the past half hour to rub against my legs and jump on the desk. She'll
> still hiss & growl at Tiger but not nearly as much as with Otto. Maybe
the
> fact that Tiger totally ignores her helps.


Have you thought about adopting her? She obviously trusts you.

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
September 27th 05, 03:41 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...

> 4 ml of anything is a rather large dose for cat. The fact that lactulose
> tastes terrible makes it even worse.

She's back to trying to hide when she sees me come in with the syringe. I
try to disguise it by wrapping it in a paper towel or putting it in a bowl,
but she's catching on. She still doesn't fight like she did with the
unflavored stuff.

> I think most cats love bacon- a little warm bacon fat is also an excellent
> flavor enhancer.

She's never had bacon. She was never crazy about any human food offered to
her, except chips/crackers and other crunchy, salty (and preferably cheesy)
snacks. Offer her chicken, ham, pastrami, tuna and she'd walk away.

>> I'll have to get a refill on that soon. Is there a limit to how long
>> they
>> should/can be on it?
>
>
> Not that I know of. I've known cats with megacolon that have been on
> cisapride and lactulose for *years*.

I just picked up a refill of the cisapride on Saturday. I got it from the
new vet and I wonder if that will make any difference. I know they charged
a lot more than the other vet, $1/pill. She's starting to spit them out if
I don't get it placed just right. I was thinking of getting those Pill
Pocket treats. She loves treats and she pretty much swallows them all whole
so that would work for both of us.


> How much is she eating a day? Would you say at least 1, 5.5 oz. can
> total?

Probably not a whole can of wet food, but I've been giving her some of the
low residue dry too. Tonight I gave her 1/4 of a 5.5oz can without any dry
and she ate it all, so I gave her some dry after and she ate all of that as
well. For breakfast she had 1/3 can wet and 2 tablespoons of dry.


> How has she been doing (going) yesterday and today?

I know she went on Friday and I'm pretty sure she went on Saturday, but I
can't remember for sure. I've got to put a notebook in my bedroom so I can
write it down. I know that she didn't go on Sunday and nothing so far
today. I keep telling her that she really doesn't want me to have to give
her an enema, so I hope she listens for both our sakes.


> I wouldn't take the chance- especially since she mentioned taking Harriet
> to
> a holistic vet. If she loves Harriet as you say and feels you're not
> giving
> her the care she would- there is certainly a possibility of her taking
> Harriet 'for her own good'.

I'm really not worried about her stealing Harriet no matter how many times
she says she'd love to. If she wasn't moving, I'd be worried but now she's
in the process of moving, getting a new job, losing her health insurance
because she can't afford COBRA (and won't get any through her new job) and
she knows that she can't afford her. I got reimbursed for the cisapride I
picked up on Saturday and she was horrified by the price. My boss has been
asking when Harriet will be back but I'd like to make sure she's pooping at
least 3 times a week first.

> Have you thought about adopting her? She obviously trusts you.
>
> Phil

I love Harriet but I don't think she'd ever really be happy here. Maybe if
my cats were gone she would but she really doesn't like other cats. She
loves the company of humans and she's used to having them around all day, so
that's another big change for her - being alone. Street noises at work
don't bother her but here, where it's much quieter, any little noise freaks
her out. She won't even look out the windows. Of course, if her staying at
work just couldn't work out I would keep her, but we'd all like to see her
back where she's comfortable, at work.

--
Liz