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DAdriano
October 11th 05, 05:55 PM
Sorry folks...just have to ramble a bit. :)

This morning, after walking my 1st grader to school, a neighborhood kitty
came up to me. She is a cute gray and white little thing that is just
absolutely adorable. When I was petting her she purred and put her little
paw up on my chest...like she was saying, "Oh please pet me more." It was so
adorable! So I went to pick her up and she jumped up on my shoulder and
started bumping her head into my ear. Unfortunately in my neighborhood,
there are a lot of people who just keep their cats outside. It makes me
feel bad for them because their owners don't pay any attention to them.
This little gray kitty runs up to me everytime I'm outside.

October 11th 05, 08:07 PM
<snip story about cat running loose outside>

Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
shave her belly and check for a spay scar. If she doesn't have one they
can spay her along with the other cat and you will have done a great
service to cats everywhere by preventing more additions to an already
overpopulated world and some unnecessary deaths. You could then find her
home with a responsible person.

If there's no way to identify her as owned, don't worry about the
possibility she belongs somewhere. I have a rule that if a cat is
running loose with no ID and not neutered they are fair game for fixing
and rehoming. Obviously it's easier to know if a male is not neutered,
but shaving the belly of a cat that might have a home just to check for
a spay scar is no harm done.

I rescued a cat last week that fits this criteria. Running loose, no ID
and definitely has an infestation of earmites. I have her in a foster
home and she's going in tomorrow for testing and spay (if she doesn't
show evidence she has been spayed already.) Even if she was, she'll be
adopted out instead of going back on the street because whoever had her
didn't care enough about her to keep her identifiable, healthy and free
of mites.

I cannot in good conscience turn away from unneutered cats roaming
around. There are just too many cats already and millions dying, and
neutering even one cat makes a difference. You're lucky you have a spay
van where you live. We have no such thing in my city and don't have low
cost clinics, so you pay full price or it doesn't get done. It's a real
travesty and it's disgusting that our local humane society, who is one
of the richest in the country, has yet to implement any sort of
neutering program that could prevent a lot of unwanted births and
subsequent surrender of animals.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

jmc
October 11th 05, 08:27 PM
Suddenly, without warning, exclaimed (11-Oct-05 8:07 PM):
> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
>
> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
> and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
> shave her belly and check for a spay scar. If she doesn't have one they
> can spay her along with the other cat and you will have done a great
> service to cats everywhere by preventing more additions to an already
> overpopulated world and some unnecessary deaths. You could then find her
> home with a responsible person.
>
> If there's no way to identify her as owned, don't worry about the
> possibility she belongs somewhere. I have a rule that if a cat is
> running loose with no ID and not neutered they are fair game for fixing
> and rehoming. Obviously it's easier to know if a male is not neutered,
> but shaving the belly of a cat that might have a home just to check for
> a spay scar is no harm done.
>
> I rescued a cat last week that fits this criteria. Running loose, no ID
> and definitely has an infestation of earmites. I have her in a foster
> home and she's going in tomorrow for testing and spay (if she doesn't
> show evidence she has been spayed already.) Even if she was, she'll be
> adopted out instead of going back on the street because whoever had her
> didn't care enough about her to keep her identifiable, healthy and free
> of mites.
>
> I cannot in good conscience turn away from unneutered cats roaming
> around. There are just too many cats already and millions dying, and
> neutering even one cat makes a difference. You're lucky you have a spay
> van where you live. We have no such thing in my city and don't have low
> cost clinics, so you pay full price or it doesn't get done. It's a real
> travesty and it's disgusting that our local humane society, who is one
> of the richest in the country, has yet to implement any sort of
> neutering program that could prevent a lot of unwanted births and
> subsequent surrender of animals.
>
> Megan

I hope you have them checked scanned for a chip before you rehome them!
I know some folks that consider collars on an outdoor cat to be
dangerous, but have them chipped so they *are* identifiable.

I'm not going to get into the indoor/outdoor debate, but I think that
with as many cats as are chipped these days, one should really have that
checked before assuming the cat's homeless!

jmc

5cats
October 11th 05, 09:20 PM
jmc wrote:

> Suddenly, without warning, exclaimed (11-Oct-05 8:07
> PM):
>> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
>>
>> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
>> with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate
>> room and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat.
>> They can shave her belly and check for a spay scar. If she doesn't
>> have one they can spay her along with the other cat and you will have
>> done a great service to cats everywhere by preventing more additions
>> to an already overpopulated world and some unnecessary deaths. You
>> could then find her home with a responsible person.
>>
>> If there's no way to identify her as owned, don't worry about the
>> possibility she belongs somewhere. I have a rule that if a cat is
>> running loose with no ID and not neutered they are fair game for
>> fixing and rehoming. Obviously it's easier to know if a male is not
>> neutered, but shaving the belly of a cat that might have a home just
>> to check for a spay scar is no harm done.
>>
>> I rescued a cat last week that fits this criteria. Running loose, no
>> ID and definitely has an infestation of earmites. I have her in a
>> foster home and she's going in tomorrow for testing and spay (if she
>> doesn't show evidence she has been spayed already.) Even if she was,
>> she'll be adopted out instead of going back on the street because
>> whoever had her didn't care enough about her to keep her
>> identifiable, healthy and free of mites.
>>
>> I cannot in good conscience turn away from unneutered cats roaming
>> around. There are just too many cats already and millions dying, and
>> neutering even one cat makes a difference. You're lucky you have a
>> spay van where you live. We have no such thing in my city and don't
>> have low cost clinics, so you pay full price or it doesn't get done.
>> It's a real travesty and it's disgusting that our local humane
>> society, who is one of the richest in the country, has yet to
>> implement any sort of neutering program that could prevent a lot of
>> unwanted births and subsequent surrender of animals.
>>
>> Megan
>
> I hope you have them checked scanned for a chip before you rehome
> them!
> I know some folks that consider collars on an outdoor cat to be
> dangerous, but have them chipped so they *are* identifiable.
>
> I'm not going to get into the indoor/outdoor debate, but I think that
> with as many cats as are chipped these days, one should really have
> that checked before assuming the cat's homeless!
>
> jmc
>

Almost exactly what I was going to say! My (indoor) cats have microchips
and only Mr. master escape artist wears a collar as well. But even his
collar is a safety collar that could be easily pulled off if snagged. I
sure hope that anyone responsible enough to spay and rehome strays would
also be scanning for micro-chipped lost pets.

Phil P.
October 11th 05, 10:51 PM
> wrote in message
...
> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
>

One

> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> with no obvious home, you should grab her



Two

>
I have a rule that if a cat is
> running loose with no ID and not neutered they are fair game for fixing
> and rehoming.


Three

>
> I rescued a cat last week that fits this criteria. Running loose, no ID


You mentioned 'no ID' -referring to *tags* three times. Don't ASSume every
stray is abandoned and homeless just because they're not wearing tags. Did
the thought occur to you that maybe the cats were *microchipped* and *have*
a home but got out and were just lost? Many people don't put collars on
their cats because collars can strangle a cat if it gets caught on
something- even the break-aways don't always break away.

Your "rule" defeats the purpose of microchips. Next time you "rescue"a cat
that isn't wearing ID tags, get the cat *scanned* so you don't end up
rehoming someone's dearly loved lost cat.

October 11th 05, 11:37 PM
>I hope you have them checked scanned fo
>a chip before you rehome them!

Any cats get routinely scanned for microchips. In all the years since
they were first introduced I have yet to rescue a single cat that has a
microchip,
and in 28 years of rescue a total of only two cats were already fixed.
Sad Isn't it? Where I live the odds of winning the lottery are better
than finding a chip in a cat. If it was chipped of course the owner
would be contacted.

Considering the fact that I was specifically addressing unneutered cats
I didn't think I needed to mention anything WRT to microchips. It seems
obvious, to me anyway, that unneutered cats roaming the neighborhood day
and night are not likely to have a microchip.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

223rem
October 12th 05, 05:01 AM
wrote:
> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
>
> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
> and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
> shave her belly and check for a spay scar.

I dont know what I would do if my harmless, sweet indoor/outdoor cat would be
captured and her belly shaved by a some busybody neighborhood idiot.
I'm not a violent person, but when my family is harmed, all bets are off.

Meghan Noecker
October 12th 05, 05:06 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:40:04 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
]> wrote:


>You got me curious about the price of a chip reader. A
>quick search turned up prices from around $250 - 500.
>That's a bit costly for an individual who would just like
>to see if a cat is chipped or not.

Any vet or shelter should be able to scan the cat to see if it has a
chip. If you are bringing in a cat you found, they probably wouldn't
even charge you. It takes only a minute.

Besides, anybody rehoming a cat whould be having it checked at a vet,
so it wouldn't be hard to ask them to check that while you are there
anyway.

When I adopted my last cat, the shelter lady scanned him to make sure
the number matched the records she was giving me. She's not the only
person in her rescue out at events adopting out cats, but she has that
scanner with her at every show to confirm every ID when they go out.
It's a standard tool now.




--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

cybercat
October 12th 05, 05:20 AM
"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:40:04 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
> ]> wrote:
>
>
> >You got me curious about the price of a chip reader. A
> >quick search turned up prices from around $250 - 500.
> >That's a bit costly for an individual who would just like
> >to see if a cat is chipped or not.
>
> Any vet or shelter should be able to scan the cat to see if it has a
> chip. If you are bringing in a cat you found, they probably wouldn't
> even charge you. It takes only a minute.
>
> Besides, anybody rehoming a cat whould be having it checked at a vet,
> so it wouldn't be hard to ask them to check that while you are there
> anyway.
>
> When I adopted my last cat, the shelter lady scanned him to make sure
> the number matched the records she was giving me. She's not the only
> person in her rescue out at events adopting out cats, but she has that
> scanner with her at every show to confirm every ID when they go out.
> It's a standard tool now.
>
>

Welcome back, Meghan!! You have been missed.

October 12th 05, 05:57 AM
>I dont know what I would do if my
>harmless, sweet indoor/outdoor cat would
>be captured and her belly shaved by a
>some busybody neighborhood idiot.

It's unfortunate your ignorance would allow you to think that being
concerned about the very real and deadly pet overpopulation problem and
taking action to help stop unwanted births is idiotic.

If you choose to be irresponsible and allow your cat to roam your
neighborhood unsupervised, don't complain if something happens to her.
It's not only your responsibility, but your obligation to keep her safe
and out of harm's way. If anything you should be grateful if the worst
that happened is that a concerned person had her belly shaved to make
sure she was spayed and didn't contribute to this:
http://community.webtv.net/zuzu22/overpopulation

>I'm not a violent person, but when my
>family is harmed, all bets are off.

If you think shaving a belly is harmful there is something very wrong
with you.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

223rem
October 12th 05, 06:20 AM
wrote:

> If you choose to be irresponsible and allow your cat to roam your
> neighborhood unsupervised, don't complain if something happens to her.

What do you mean, 'unsupervised'? How do you supervise a cat? My cat 'roams'
a limited area. Cats are territorial. She doesnt intrude on other cats territory.
She climbs trees, hunts mice and chipmunks, chases butterflies and birds, etc.
In other words, she is a happy cat, enjoying freedom, fresh air and sunshine.
And although it is none of your business, she is fixed.

> It's not only your responsibility, but your obligation to keep her safe
> and out of harm's way. If anything you should be grateful if the worst
> that happened is that a concerned person had her belly shaved to make
> sure she was spayed and didn't contribute to this:
> If you think shaving a belly is harmful there is something very wrong
> with you.

You really are crazy. Sooner or later you'll mess with the wrong person's pet.
You may be in for a serious beating.

Phil P.
October 12th 05, 06:44 AM
> wrote in message
...
> >I hope you have them checked scanned fo
> >a chip before you rehome them!
>
> Any cats get routinely scanned for microchips.


Yet the only ID you told the OP to look for was ID tags... okey dokey.



In all the years since
> they were first introduced I have yet to rescue a single cat that has a
> microchip,
> and in 28 years of rescue a total of only two cats were already fixed.
> Sad Isn't it? Where I live the odds of winning the lottery are better
> than finding a chip in a cat. If it was chipped of course the owner
> would be contacted.
>
> Considering the fact that I was specifically addressing unneutered cats
> I didn't think I needed to mention anything WRT to microchips.

Why not? You just said you scan "any cat" *you* find, and you only found
two cats in "28 years" that were neutered. That sure implies that *you*
scanned
a lot of *intact* cats. Why then, did you not feel it was necessary to
mention getting the cat scanned if *you*, yourself scan "any" cat you find-
which includes a lot of *intact cats*? Just asking for clarification
because it sounds like bull**** to me.

You made it very clear that you feel anyone who allows their cat to roam
(even if the cat just got out) doesn't deserve to have the cat. Ergo, why
would you want to find a person that you don't feel should have the cat?

Personally, I think you didn't mention getting the cat scanned because -you
didn't think of it- until someone else mentioned it because you don't really
get cats scanned yourself. If scanning strays were routine for you, it
would be foremost on your list of advice if the cat had no ID tags or other
marking.

223rem
October 12th 05, 06:55 AM
wrote:
>
> It's unfortunate your ignorance would allow you to think that being
> concerned about the very real and deadly pet overpopulation problem and
> taking action to help stop unwanted births is idiotic.
>

If I may offer some advice. A very sound principle to live by,
especially in the USA is: MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. If you choose to make
other people's pets your business, then, depending on how crazy the owner
is (and you never know in this country), you may end up with a brick through your
bedroom window, slashed tires, or a large oral surgeon bill. All of which will
make the cat overpoupulation problem that preoccupies you so much pale in importance.

I dont touch other people's pets. They better not touch mine.

Phil P.
October 12th 05, 07:11 AM
"Nomen Nescio" ]> wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "Phil P." >
>
> >Your "rule" defeats the purpose of microchips. Next time you "rescue"a
cat
> >that isn't wearing ID tags, get the cat *scanned* so you don't end up
> >rehoming someone's dearly loved lost cat.
>
> You got me curious about the price of a chip reader. A
> quick search turned up prices from around $250 - 500.
> That's a bit costly for an individual who would just like
> to see if a cat is chipped or not. Are there any devices
> on the market that don't read the ID #, but simply give
> you a yes or no answer to the question " Is the cat chipped?"


Yes. I have two multiscanners that reads most chips. The most common chips
all operate on the same frequency-125 mhz.


> It seems like a device that would perform that function
> could be a lot less expensive since it only needs to trigger,
> and sense a response from, a chip. That would be very
> useful to people who regularly take in "strays".
> Does such a device exist?


There are only two major chips- Avid and Home Again. The Avid Multiscanner
and Home Again Pocket Reader Ex read each other's chips as well as most of
the less popular chips.

How's TK?

Phil

-L.
October 12th 05, 07:15 AM
223rem wrote:
> wrote:
> > <snip story about cat running loose outside>
> >
> > Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> > with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
> > and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
> > shave her belly and check for a spay scar.
>
> I dont know what I would do if my harmless, sweet indoor/outdoor cat would be
> captured and her belly shaved by a some busybody neighborhood idiot.
> I'm not a violent person, but when my family is harmed, all bets are off.

Well if she were roaming my neighborhood, that's exactly what would
happen to her. If he was FIV and/or FeLV positive she'd either be
rehomed in a haven for such cats if they had room, or euthanized. If
she wasn't spayed, she would be, as well as vaccinated and either
released or rehomed. Probably released though, with an ear nick. Any
cat on my property is fair game. You don't want your cat TTVNR'ed then
don't let it roam.

-L.

-L.
October 12th 05, 07:18 AM
223rem wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> > It's unfortunate your ignorance would allow you to think that being
> > concerned about the very real and deadly pet overpopulation problem and
> > taking action to help stop unwanted births is idiotic.
> >
>
> If I may offer some advice. A very sound principle to live by,
> especially in the USA is: MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. If you choose to make
> other people's pets your business, then, depending on how crazy the owner
> is (and you never know in this country), you may end up with a brick through your
> bedroom window, slashed tires, or a large oral surgeon bill. All of which will
> make the cat overpoupulation problem that preoccupies you so much pale in importance.
>
> I dont touch other people's pets. They better not touch mine.

Keep it off my property and there won't be a problem. I have yet to
meet an indoor/outdoor cat yet, that stays in its own yard, though.

-L.

October 12th 05, 07:55 AM
Phil wrote:

>Yet the only ID you told the OP to look
>for was ID tags... okey dokey.

Maybe you missed the part where I clearly said "If there's no way to
identify her as owned".

She likely doesn't have a scanner so obviously the first way to try to
identify the cat is to look for tags. I would assume a spay van, since
they are usually affiliated with shelters, would be equipped with a
scanner and it might be done when she brings it in for possible spaying.
Maybe I'm wrong. There isn't some big conspiracy to keep people
uninformed about scanning. My main focus is on making sure the cat is
neutered. It just didn't cross my mind to mention it and, in fact, you
yourself have posted the same with no mention of scanning. For example,
on March 28, 2005 you wrote:

"You cannot legally go on someone's property and trap a cat and have
her
neutered. =A0However, if the cat is roaming or comes on *your* property
and
has no ID you *can*. =A0I'm more concerned about the welfare of the
feline
species that the feelings or wishes of some irresponsible, inconsiderate
asshole. =A0But that's me."

Hmmmmm. Nope. No mention of scanning for a chip.

>>Considering the fact that I was
>>specifically addressing unneutered cats I
>>didn't think I needed to mention anything
>>WRT to microchips.

>Why not? You just said you scan "any
>cat" *you* find, and you only found two
>cats in "28 years" that were neutered.
>That sure implies that *you* scanned
>a lot of *intact* cats. Why then, did you
>not feel it was necessary to mention
>getting the cat scanned if *you*, yourself
>scan "any" cat you find- which includes a
>lot of *intact cats*? =A0 Just asking for
>clarification because it sounds like bull****
>to me.

It's automatic and doesn't happen often enough that it's foremost on my
mind. When I rescue a cat, my initial focus is looking to see if it's
fixed and has visible ID. Scanning comes later.

>You made it very clear that you feel
>anyone who allows their cat to roam (even
>if the cat just got out) doesn't deserve to
>have the cat.

That's not true. Anyone that allows their *unneutered* cat to roam and
neglects it's health doesn't deserve to have it. I made that very clear.
Let me refesh your memory. I said:

"I have a rule that if a cat is running loose with no ID and not
neutered they are fair game for fixing and rehoming."


>Personally, I think you didn't mention
>getting the cat scanned because -you
>didn't think of it- until someone else
>mentioned it because you don't really get
>cats scanned yourself.

I don't do it. My vet does and I'm never around when they do it since
it's always sometime after I drop them off as rescues are not planned
and I rarely have the luxury of getting an appointment right then and
there where I would be present when they scan. In almost all cases the
cat is dropped off and boarded until it is checked, vaccinated and
fixed. In the latest rescue I was fortunate to have a foster home so I
was able to make an appointment and will be present.

>If scanning strays
>were routine for you, it would be foremost
>on your list of advice if the cat had no ID
>tags or other marking.

You are wrong and clueless as to what would be foremost on my list of
advice. Scanning for a chip is advice you have failed to give yourself.
Like I said, there's no conspiracy. Just an oversight which you yourself
have been guilty of.


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Meghan Noecker
October 12th 05, 09:27 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:20:19 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

wrote:
>
>> If you choose to be irresponsible and allow your cat to roam your
>> neighborhood unsupervised, don't complain if something happens to her.
>
>What do you mean, 'unsupervised'? How do you supervise a cat? My cat 'roams'
>a limited area. Cats are territorial. She doesnt intrude on other cats territory.
>She climbs trees, hunts mice and chipmunks, chases butterflies and birds, etc.
>In other words, she is a happy cat, enjoying freedom, fresh air and sunshine.
>And although it is none of your business, she is fixed.

If your cat is off your property, then it is definitely unsupervised,
and certainly not where it should be.

Why would you expect other people not to touch it?

Also, anybody who lets their cats outside, has to accept the risks
that come with it. Having their cat picked up by animal control or a
well meaning neighbor are risks you have to deal with.

Personally, if my cats ever managed to get outside, I would be happy
that somebody picked them up, because they means they won't be killed.
I'd have a better chance of finding them.





>
>> It's not only your responsibility, but your obligation to keep her safe
>> and out of harm's way. If anything you should be grateful if the worst
>> that happened is that a concerned person had her belly shaved to make
>> sure she was spayed and didn't contribute to this:
>> If you think shaving a belly is harmful there is something very wrong
>> with you.
>
>You really are crazy. Sooner or later you'll mess with the wrong person's pet.
>You may be in for a serious beating.

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Meghan Noecker
October 12th 05, 09:32 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:20:29 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:
>
>Welcome back, Meghan!! You have been missed.
>

Thanks. I needed a break from the group for awhile, so I just quit
reading.

My crew's doing well, and we added another one. Back up to 4 cats and
2 dogs.

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Phil P.
October 12th 05, 09:49 AM
> wrote in message
...

Phil wrote:

>>Yet the only ID you told the OP to look
>>for was ID tags... okey dokey.

>Maybe you missed the part where I clearly said "If there's no way to
identify her as owned".

Nope I didn't miss that. You were clearly referring to ID tages because
that's the only ID you mentioned.


>She likely doesn't have a scanner so obviously the first way to try to
identify the cat is to look for tags. I would assume a spay van, since
they are usually affiliated with shelters, would be equipped with a
>scanner and it might be done when she brings it in for possible spaying.


Good afterthought.


>Maybe I'm wrong. There isn't some big conspiracy to keep people
uninformed about scanning. My main focus is on making sure the cat is
neutered. It just didn't cross my mind to mention it and, in fact, you
yourself have posted the same with no mention of scanning. For example,
>on March 28, 2005 you wrote:

"You cannot legally go on someone's property and trap a cat and have
her
neutered. However, if the cat is roaming or comes on *your* property
and
has no ID you *can*. I'm more concerned about the welfare of the
feline
species that the feelings or wishes of some irresponsible, inconsiderate
asshole. But that's me."

> Hmmmmm. Nope. No mention of scanning for a chip.


That discussion was about a *known* *owned* cat in the neighborhood. Good
try, though. You're beginning to make a habit of posting links and quotes
that contradict yourself. But that's ok, I don't mind.

..


>>Considering the fact that I was
>>specifically addressing unneutered cats I
>>didn't think I needed to mention anything
>>WRT to microchips.

>Why not? You just said you scan "any
>cat" *you* find, and you only found two
>cats in "28 years" that were neutered.
>That sure implies that *you* scanned
>a lot of *intact* cats. Why then, did you
>not feel it was necessary to mention
>getting the cat scanned if *you*, yourself
>scan "any" cat you find- which includes a
>lot of *intact cats*? Just asking for
>clarification because it sounds like bull****
>to me.

>It's automatic and doesn't happen often enough that it's foremost on my
mind. When I rescue a cat, my initial focus is looking to see if it's
>fixed and has visible ID. Scanning comes later.

Another good afterthought.

Btw, a little tip: If the cat was neutered at a young age, the scar would
be very tiny and disappears in a few years. Some kittens are tattooed by the
incision site- but they also fade and disappear after a few years. Ideally,
unknown females should be sonogramed before being put in possibly
unnecessary anesthetic and surgical risk- Most vets don't have ultrasound
scanners and the uterus isn't visible on plain x-rays unless the cat is
pregnant or has pyometra. However- the uterus *can* be seen on x-rays if
you compress the stomach with a radiolucent (allows x-rays to pass through)
ping pong paddle. That's a little trick you won't find on the web or in you
book and might spare a few cats from being opened up unecessarily. The
bonus is the x-ray is even cheaper than a spay.


>>You made it very clear that you feel
>anyone who allows their cat to roam (even
>if the cat just got out) doesn't deserve to
>>have the cat.

>That's not true. Anyone that allows their *unneutered* cat to roam and
>neglects it's health doesn't deserve to have it. I made that very clear.

Did it ever occur to you that the cat may have accidentally gotten out?
Cats that have been lost for awhile are often in pretty bad shape- they look
like they've been grossly neglected. And just because a cat isn't neutered
doesn't mean the owner is irresponsible. Many people don't know about the
risks of not neutering cats- especially females- for the cat and the general
feline population. These newsgroups represent only a tiny percentage of the
cat owning public- most cat owners don't can't tell a hairball from a turd.
So, don't automatically assume every stray is or was owned by an
irresponsible person.


>Let me refesh your memory. I said:
>"I have a rule that if a cat is running loose with no ID and not
>neutered they are fair game for fixing and rehoming."


You were clearly referring to ID tags because that's the *only* ID you've
mentioned.



>Personally, I think you didn't mention
>getting the cat scanned because -you
>didn't think of it- until someone else
>mentioned it because you don't really get
>cats scanned yourself.

>I don't do it. My vet does

I didn't mean "you" literaly. I said "you don't really **get** cats scanned
yourself". I don't expect everyone to have a scanner.


>If scanning strays
>were routine for you, it would be foremost
>on your list of advice if the cat had no ID
>tags or other marking.

>You are wrong and clueless as to what would be foremost on my list of
advice.
>Scanning for a chip is advice you have failed to give yourself.
Like I said, there's no conspiracy. Just an oversight which you yourself
>have been guilty of.


I've been recommending microchips for years, but I don't recall you ever
mentioning microchips- that's why your post caught my attention.

Btw, if I don't mention something- regardless of the topic- that makes it ok
for you not to mention it, either.

Charlie Wilkes
October 12th 05, 09:54 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:01:32 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

wrote:
>> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
>>
>> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
>> with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
>> and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
>> shave her belly and check for a spay scar.
>
>I dont know what I would do if my harmless, sweet indoor/outdoor cat would be
>captured and her belly shaved by a some busybody neighborhood idiot.
>I'm not a violent person, but when my family is harmed, all bets are off.

Sure, but let's be realistic. Your cat is much more likely to get hit
by a car than molested by a wandering cat rescuer.

Charlie

-L.
October 12th 05, 10:00 AM
Phil P. wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > >I hope you have them checked scanned fo
> > >a chip before you rehome them!
> >
> > Any cats get routinely scanned for microchips.
>
>
> Yet the only ID you told the OP to look for was ID tags... okey dokey.

Well, one can't immediately look for a microchip, can they? Unless
they carry a scanner around with them just incase they find a stray
cat...


> In all the years since
> > they were first introduced I have yet to rescue a single cat that has a
> > microchip,
> > and in 28 years of rescue a total of only two cats were already fixed.
> > Sad Isn't it? Where I live the odds of winning the lottery are better
> > than finding a chip in a cat. If it was chipped of course the owner
> > would be contacted.
> >
> > Considering the fact that I was specifically addressing unneutered cats
> > I didn't think I needed to mention anything WRT to microchips.
>
> Why not? You just said you scan "any cat" *you* find, and you only found
> two cats in "28 years" that were neutered. That sure implies that *you*
> scanned
> a lot of *intact* cats. Why then, did you not feel it was necessary to
> mention getting the cat scanned if *you*, yourself scan "any" cat you find-
> which includes a lot of *intact cats*? Just asking for clarification
> because it sounds like bull**** to me.

If she's anything like me, the vet rountinely scans strays I bring in -
I forget to even mention it sometimes. They just do it. So I wouldn't
necessarily think to mention it in a thread like this, unless it popped
into my head. That doesn't mean I don't do it though, or rather, that
it isn't done. It's always done - intact cat or no. it's sort of SOP
for stray cats at most vets, AFAIK.

-L.

Phil P.
October 12th 05, 10:10 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I forget to even mention it sometimes. They just do it. So I wouldn't
> necessarily think to mention it in a thread like this, unless it popped
> into my head. That doesn't mean I don't do it though, or rather, that
> it isn't done.

I know. But since Megan likes to jump on petty points in my posts- I thought
I'd return the favor. ;-)

Phil

cybercat
October 12th 05, 02:43 PM
"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:20:29 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
> >
> >Welcome back, Meghan!! You have been missed.
> >
>
> Thanks. I needed a break from the group for awhile, so I just quit
> reading.

Can't blame you there.
>
> My crew's doing well, and we added another one.


I was just going to ask!

>Back up to 4 cats and 2 dogs.

Wonderful! You know I need some pics!

cybercat
October 12th 05, 02:44 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:01:32 GMT, 223rem > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> >> <snip story about cat running loose outside>
> >>
> >> Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> >> with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
> >> and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
> >> shave her belly and check for a spay scar.
> >
> >I dont know what I would do if my harmless, sweet indoor/outdoor cat
would be
> >captured and her belly shaved by a some busybody neighborhood idiot.
> >I'm not a violent person, but when my family is harmed, all bets are off.
>
> Sure, but let's be realistic. Your cat is much more likely to get hit
> by a car than molested by a wandering cat rescuer.
>

An excellent point.

Tony P.
October 12th 05, 10:34 PM
In article >,
says...
> Suddenly, without warning, exclaimed (11-Oct-05 8:07 PM):
> > <snip story about cat running loose outside>
> >
> > Does this little kitty have ID tags? If not and she is running loose
> > with no obvious home, you should grab her, keep her in a separate room
> > and bring her to the spay van when you bring your other cat. They can
> > shave her belly and check for a spay scar. If she doesn't have one they
> > can spay her along with the other cat and you will have done a great
> > service to cats everywhere by preventing more additions to an already
> > overpopulated world and some unnecessary deaths. You could then find her
> > home with a responsible person.
> >
> > If there's no way to identify her as owned, don't worry about the
> > possibility she belongs somewhere. I have a rule that if a cat is
> > running loose with no ID and not neutered they are fair game for fixing
> > and rehoming. Obviously it's easier to know if a male is not neutered,
> > but shaving the belly of a cat that might have a home just to check for
> > a spay scar is no harm done.
> >
> > I rescued a cat last week that fits this criteria. Running loose, no ID
> > and definitely has an infestation of earmites. I have her in a foster
> > home and she's going in tomorrow for testing and spay (if she doesn't
> > show evidence she has been spayed already.) Even if she was, she'll be
> > adopted out instead of going back on the street because whoever had her
> > didn't care enough about her to keep her identifiable, healthy and free
> > of mites.
> >
> > I cannot in good conscience turn away from unneutered cats roaming
> > around. There are just too many cats already and millions dying, and
> > neutering even one cat makes a difference. You're lucky you have a spay
> > van where you live. We have no such thing in my city and don't have low
> > cost clinics, so you pay full price or it doesn't get done. It's a real
> > travesty and it's disgusting that our local humane society, who is one
> > of the richest in the country, has yet to implement any sort of
> > neutering program that could prevent a lot of unwanted births and
> > subsequent surrender of animals.
> >
> > Megan
>
> I hope you have them checked scanned for a chip before you rehome them!
> I know some folks that consider collars on an outdoor cat to be
> dangerous, but have them chipped so they *are* identifiable.
>
> I'm not going to get into the indoor/outdoor debate, but I think that
> with as many cats as are chipped these days, one should really have that
> checked before assuming the cat's homeless!
>
> jmc

I'd think that the fact the cat was sociable toward a human being meant
that someone obviously was owned by it.

Meghan Noecker
October 13th 05, 09:33 AM
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:34:48 -0400, Tony P.
> wrote:


>I'd think that the fact the cat was sociable toward a human being meant
>that someone obviously was owned by it.
>

That would seem likely, but not always true.

Several years ago, my mom found an injured cat by the side of the
road. He been hit by a car. She took him to the vet. They gave him
some pain medication, and then tested him for dieseases to see if it
was even worth the effort to save him.

He had major head trauma, and was clearly a stray. Approximately 8
months old, only 6 lbs, and his build suggested a 9-10lb weight.

He tested okay, so the vet ahead and wired his broken jaw, swed up his
damaaged eye (definitely blinded, but hoping that it wouldn't have to
be surgically removed), and worked on his other issues. She also
neutered him at the same time.

During that waiting time, this cat, with serious head injuries, kept
pushing his head into my mom's hand. He was obviously a very friendly
cat.

Nobody claimed him, and we were very impressed with him, so we paid
the vet bill and brought him home. We tried to keep him secluded, but
that only lasted a day. He did not want to be locked away, so I put
him on my bed, and he was much happier.

He may have started out with a home, yet was already severely
underweight. He had to have been out on his own for awhile to have
lost that much weight.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

mlbriggs
October 13th 05, 07:07 PM
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:55:56 +0000, DAdriano wrote:

> Sorry folks...just have to ramble a bit. :)
>
> This morning, after walking my 1st grader to school, a neighborhood kitty
> came up to me. She is a cute gray and white little thing that is just
> absolutely adorable. When I was petting her she purred and put her little
> paw up on my chest...like she was saying, "Oh please pet me more." It was
> so adorable! So I went to pick her up and she jumped up on my shoulder
> and started bumping her head into my ear. Unfortunately in my
> neighborhood, there are a lot of people who just keep their cats outside.
> It makes me feel bad for them because their owners don't pay any attention
> to them. This little gray kitty runs up to me everytime I'm outside.


Why not invite her into your house for a meal? She may decide to stay.
MLB