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jmc
October 14th 05, 09:01 AM
My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of
cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't
already) develop arthritis.

I'm trying to get her on a higher quality dry, since she's terribly
inconsistent on what wet food she'll eat, if any. I can't get her to eat
any high quality wet foods - the best she'll touch (usually) is some
varieties of Fancy Feast.

I was looking at Royal Canin Indoor, but I also see they sell a Mature
version for cats over 10 years old.

I'm looking for opinions: Which of these do you think would be best for
Meep's health in the long term?

Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures
Best, vs Iams Active Maturity?

October 15th 05, 05:19 AM
jmc wrote:
> My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of
> cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't
> already) develop arthritis.
>
> I'm trying to get her on a higher quality dry, since she's terribly
> inconsistent on what wet food she'll eat, if any. I can't get her to eat
> any high quality wet foods - the best she'll touch (usually) is some
> varieties of Fancy Feast.
>
> I was looking at Royal Canin Indoor, but I also see they sell a Mature
> version for cats over 10 years old.
>
> I'm looking for opinions: Which of these do you think would be best for
> Meep's health in the long term?
>
> Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures
> Best, vs Iams Active Maturity?

I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who
might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with
him. They own Waltham and IVD.

My cat now will eat the better Fancy Feast Grilled Tuna/Chicken Feast
which is about 71-74 kilocalories per can and 0.81% phosphorus, dry
matter basis, in one sitting. Interesting. I also found that at times,
not feeding her in the morning on demand, she will actually drink a
long drink of water which aids greatly in preventing cystitis, the lack
of water in a dry diet is a main culprit.

I give some SD Oral or Light for the teeth.

It's a tough call but one European research article tied dried food to
crystals in the urine without much room for doubt. That said, I had one
vet tell me he does not see cats on Iams or SD with cystitis. I don't
know. I have seen cats thrive on cheaper dry food. But I do wonder
about the companies who seem to have more research, for example,
Science Diet will set the pH to 6.4 to 6.6 for its older cats which I
like. Try finding that on more cat food web sites where they don't even
list phosphorus content or calories. Phosphorus may be some you wish to
look into. It affects bones and can increase bone problems if I recall
correctly, which I may not. I am writing too much.

I find being mean, if I set out a decent wet food, like a better SD or
one of the few good Fancy Feast or even a very expensive organic food,
she will eat it if I refuse to give her anything else. Sometimes if I
think the food is fine, I will just let it out for hours and it's eaten
by morning. I worry about bacteria so I'm careful with the tuna types
but cat's generally have a gut that can handle bacteria. Of course, if
she's older, I don't know. But so far it's been good with canned food.
I was astonished that she will now finish a good quality Fancy Feast,
most FF have bad specs, high phosphorus which is not good, in 10
minutes now. You can read previous threads on the handful of Fancy
Feasts that have low phosphorus. The Science Diet usually has low
phosphorus so I use the Light or the Turkey and Giblets, although the
Turkey has higher calories.

I probably talked too much but that's because I am not a vet and my
knowledge is mostly limited to my immediate interaction with my
particular cat who is a bit younger than yours.

You might want to chat up some vets if that's possible. Although some
don't really get into this.

If your cat is overweight a tad, as most are, I might be a little
meaner in getting her to eat the right foods. Of course, there is
always the danger that the cat knows best and her instincts are better.
My cat refuses all beef from FF and I think she's smart, knowing Mad
Cow disease is not being discussed with cat food or pet food in general
and stricter guidelines are going into effect.

Steve Crane
October 16th 05, 02:46 PM
wrote:
> jmc wrote:
>
> I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who
> might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with
> him. They own Waltham and IVD.


Not particularly important, but Royal Canin is owned by Mars which is
the largest pet food manufacturer in the world. Mars owns a huge number
of brands all over the world. Royal Canin doesn't really own anything,
they are part of the Mars pet food brands.

Masterfoods
Pedigree
Whiskas
IVD
Royal Canin
Waltham
and literally hundreds more

October 16th 05, 09:00 PM
Steve Crane wrote:
> wrote:
> > jmc wrote:
> >
> > I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who
> > might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with
> > him. They own Waltham and IVD.
>
>
> Not particularly important, but Royal Canin is owned by Mars which is
> the largest pet food manufacturer in the world. Mars owns a huge number
> of brands all over the world. Royal Canin doesn't really own anything,
> they are part of the Mars pet food brands.
>
> Masterfoods
> Pedigree
> Whiskas
> IVD
> Royal Canin
> Waltham
> and literally hundreds more

That is particularly important :) since I had asked about which company
was which they might have identified the parent company. They, not the
vet, but the talking heads, kind of waffled on that. Come to think of
it, same type of inadequate response when I called Purina, also a big
conglomerate. But both companies were very nice and helpful. When they
could not answer my specific questions, they referred me to someone who
could, a vet in one case, and a manager in the other.

October 19th 05, 05:53 AM
jmc wrote:
> My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of
> cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't
> already) develop arthritis.
>
> I'm looking for opinions: Which of these do you think would be best for
> Meep's health in the long term?
>
> Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures
> Best, vs Iams Active Maturity?


I would go with the mature indoor. They originally had a senior which
did great things for my 18 year old cat. He was walking faster, even
trotting, and taking the stairs a lot better when I switched him to the
senior food. They redid their foods and the senior was replaced by the
mature indoor and the mature active. The indoor is for less active
(older) kitties, and that is what I put my 11 year old cat on. She
isn't senior like Maynard was, but she's not overly active (except when
being chased). I do see her being more active and playful. Possibly
because of the food and maybe because of the changes in the hierarchy
(Maynard gone, and two younger ones in).

The mature indoor does have a good amount of glucosamine, more then the
previous senior (which I know helped Maynard with his arthtritis), and
I believe even more than the maine coon version.

I haven't tried the other brands you mentioned, so I can't compare
them. I can tell you that Maynard was much improved on the senior food.
He moved and felt better. Jay Jay, my part maine coon, loves the maine
coon version, and is very happy and healthy. I switched him because our
regular food was giving him the runs when I adopted him. After
switching him, he has been solid and less stinky. And his fur is softer
too. Kira, the 11 year old, liked Maynard's food, so I decided to quit
the regular food and stick with the Royal canin.

It's a bit spendier, but I am happy with the results. Advice to save
money - buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the
local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag from a
dealer for the same price as two 3 lb bags in the store. I do my best
to buy the larger bags at the shows and only buy from the store if I
run out before the next show.

Cheryl
October 20th 05, 12:14 AM
On Wed 19 Oct 2005 12:53:14a, wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):

> buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the
> local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag
> from a dealer for the same price as two 3 lb bags in the store.
> I do my best to buy the larger bags at the shows and only buy
> from the store if I run out before the next show.
>

Just curious, Meghan, how long does the large bag last for you,
once it's opened? I've had a heck of a time keeping dry cat food
from going rancid (even in air tight containers meant for pet food
storage) because the two that eat primarily dry food eat different
kinds due to their different needs. I feed California Natural dry
to one, but her intake is strickly measured and it would go bad
before it was gone. Then I tried freezing half the bag, and it
still smelled funny to me, and she wouldn't eat it once it had been
frozen in zip lock gallon sized bag portions. I have one of those
food savers, but it's hard to vaccum seal bags of food because it
seems impossible to get all of the air out due to the shape of the
food, and the bags would eventually "inflate" a little. Then I
bought a few of the canisters they make for the foodsaver for use
with the hose attachment, and that seems to be working out.

I highly recommend keeping out only the ammount of dry food that
can be consumed within a month of being new. These days I only keep
out a couple of weeks worth in air tight containers. I tried
refrigerating the container between meals, but thought that was
overkill? Anyone else refrigerate dry cat food?

--
Cheryl

Joe Canuck
October 20th 05, 01:29 AM
Cheryl wrote:

> On Wed 19 Oct 2005 12:53:14a, wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> roups.com):
>
>
>>buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the
>>local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag
>>from a dealer for the same price as two 3 lb bags in the store.
>>I do my best to buy the larger bags at the shows and only buy
>>from the store if I run out before the next show.
>>
>
>
> Just curious, Meghan, how long does the large bag last for you,
> once it's opened? I've had a heck of a time keeping dry cat food
> from going rancid (even in air tight containers meant for pet food
> storage) because the two that eat primarily dry food eat different
> kinds due to their different needs. I feed California Natural dry
> to one, but her intake is strickly measured and it would go bad
> before it was gone. Then I tried freezing half the bag, and it
> still smelled funny to me, and she wouldn't eat it once it had been
> frozen in zip lock gallon sized bag portions. I have one of those
> food savers, but it's hard to vaccum seal bags of food because it
> seems impossible to get all of the air out due to the shape of the
> food, and the bags would eventually "inflate" a little. Then I
> bought a few of the canisters they make for the foodsaver for use
> with the hose attachment, and that seems to be working out.
>
> I highly recommend keeping out only the ammount of dry food that
> can be consumed within a month of being new. These days I only keep
> out a couple of weeks worth in air tight containers. I tried
> refrigerating the container between meals, but thought that was
> overkill? Anyone else refrigerate dry cat food?
>

I've never had a problem with dry cat food going bad, including the
California Natural brand which I used to feed.

I store the food in air tight plastic containers in a cool dark closet
in the basement until I need a new full container. A new full container
is kept handy upstairs in a kitchen cupboard and usually lasts ~6 weeks.

I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10 lb bag of
dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16 weeks.

Keep an eye on those expiry dates on the bags. I know lots of folks
still consider the food still good even past the expiry date; however,
it only seems logical that the closer to the expiry date the bag is on
the date you purchase it... the less fresh it is and therefore the shelf
life of the food is reduced by the time it gets to you.

I once had an idiot at at pet store try to convince me that a bag of
food they had was still perfectly good. When I entered the store this
bag was being used as a door stop, it was torn open, there were places
where tears had previously been fixed, and it was past the expiry date.
I guess they though I was going to be bigger morons than they were. :-D

Cheryl
October 20th 05, 02:17 AM
On Wed 19 Oct 2005 08:29:28p, Joe Canuck wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
):

> I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10
> lb bag of dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16
> weeks.

Thanks for the feedback. The food stored for 3-4 months is in it's
original bag, unopened? I never had a problem with dry food going bad
until Rhett, and he requires food for a sensitive stomach, so the big
bags last much longer than what I find fresh. I can smell the
difference, sort of an like old oil smell. The one eating the Cali
Natural won't eat much canned, though she'll eat some per day. The
two canned eaters like to munch on her CN, but rarely the sensitive
stomach dry.

--
Cheryl

October 20th 05, 08:23 AM
Cheryl wrote:

> Just curious, Meghan, how long does the large bag last for you,
> once it's opened? I've had a heck of a time keeping dry cat food
> from going rancid (even in air tight containers meant for pet food
> storage) because the two that eat primarily dry food eat different
> kinds due to their different needs.

I believe I bought the 15 lb bag on July 31st, and Jay Jay finished it
off last week. So, it took him about 2 1/2 months. I kept it in a
container, rather than the bag. He does seem to eat it a little less
now that he is sure the next meal is coming. At the same time, I bought
a 7 lb bag of Kira's food. She still has a little left of hers. She's
only 7 lbs, so she doesn't eat nearly as much as Jay Jay.

I just bought a 7 lb bag of the maine coon food for Jay Jay last week.
He was going to run out before the next cat show. So, we'll see how
long this one lasts. I definitely don't want to buy the 3 lb bags. Jay
Jay was going through those in less than 2 weeks. And they were $13 a
bag. I got the 7 lb bag for $19, so it was a much better deal.

I haven't noticed any change in the smell or the look of the food. And
the cats keep chowing away at it. I do keep the containers in a cool
dry area, so that may help. And I dish it out one scoop at a time, so
it doesn't sit out very long.

Joe Canuck
October 20th 05, 12:29 PM
Cheryl wrote:

> On Wed 19 Oct 2005 08:29:28p, Joe Canuck wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> ):
>
>
>>I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10
>>lb bag of dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16
>>weeks.
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. The food stored for 3-4 months is in it's
> original bag, unopened? I never had a problem with dry food going bad
> until Rhett, and he requires food for a sensitive stomach, so the big
> bags last much longer than what I find fresh. I can smell the
> difference, sort of an like old oil smell. The one eating the Cali
> Natural won't eat much canned, though she'll eat some per day. The
> two canned eaters like to munch on her CN, but rarely the sensitive
> stomach dry.
>

I never store food in the bag. I always open the bag and place the food
in air tight containers. Who knows, the bag may have been punctured
somewhere along the way.

October 20th 05, 12:49 PM
Joe Canuck wrote:

> I never store food in the bag. I always open the bag and place the food
> in air tight containers. Who knows, the bag may have been punctured
> somewhere along the way.

In my house, no bag is safe. Even with a full bowl of cat food, Jay Jay
will attempt to open any bag he finds. He even opened a kitty litter
bag.

Add in a dog who will eat anything she finds, and a cat food bag is
very dangerous. Jay Jay found a bag that was up on a shelf, opened it,
and dumped cat food all over the floor. If Jenny had gotten downstairs
before I found it she would have made herself quite sick. After that, I
bought tubs. The worst he can do is dump his bowl.

cybercat
October 20th 05, 03:34 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>

> Add in a dog who will eat anything she finds, and a cat food bag is
> very dangerous.

I was watching "Lost" last night and one of the characters mentioned
that "dogs will eat anything." To illustrate his point he said he had a
piece of candy and a bunch of nickels together laying around, and the
next day his dog pooped out $130 in nickels. :)