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Ajanta
October 28th 05, 01:41 AM
I am feeding two adult strays, one regularly. Do they need more
nourishent in the winter months? If so, would it be better to increase
their regular food or to switch to kitten formula, partially or
completely? Thanks.

No More Retail
October 28th 05, 03:36 AM
if you switch an adult cat to kitten formula you are actually taking
vitamins away from them. If using dry food about an extra half cup or more
if they seem hungry. They burn more fuel trying to stay warm.

October 28th 05, 03:36 AM
That's a tough one. I've read that nothing is more nourishing than
kitten food. Very nutrient dense. You might want to see if someone,
that is, experienced or expert, who feeds ferals might know. Do they go
days without eating? Is it possible they can get stuck somewhere and
have to wait out a snow storm? Are they, ahem, a little fat now? I've
seen adult strays in the mountains fed by a friendly human who were, in
my opinion, way too fat even between snow storms. One was a roly-poly
long-haired gray cat who let me turn him over and rub his tummy. Much
to the astonishment of the human who regularly fed him and his friends.
"He never let anyone do that", she said. But, alas, I could not bring
him home from the mountains.

October 28th 05, 05:08 AM
That's interesting. I would have thought just the opposite. You got me
curious now. I looked just now at the composition of kitten versus cat
for example, taurine, and the kitten food has twice as much. So it's
not taurine then which had been omitted in some adult foods previously
and lack of which causes blindness I believe. Which vitamins are less
in kitten food than in adult cat food? This would be good to know for
the future.

Ajanta
October 28th 05, 06:24 AM
"> wrote:

: Do they go days without eating?

No, one comes to me almost everyday, the other one less regularly but
also does not look starving. It remains to be seen if they would be so
regular during cold and snowly days. I was only thinking of extra
nutrition needed to deal with the cold.

: Is it possible they can get stuck somewhere and have to wait out a
: snow storm?

Don't know for sure. They don't travel great distances, just backyards
of homes within 1 city block. But it is not a straight shoot. Because
some fences are very tall and a couple of homes have dogs, they have to
figure out complex routes to go from one yard to another one just two
homes away. I suppose if some routes are clogged with snow and ice,
they'll know others. Still, it is possible they may have to wait out a
severe weather patch.

: Are they, ahem, a little fat now?

Very little, it may even be just the coat thickening. They lead active
lives. I live on the 3rd floor and the more regular one thinks nothing
of climbing up and down 2 or 3 times on certain days. And it is not
always to eat, sometimes just to goof around.

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 07:54 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
om...
> if you switch an adult cat to kitten formula you are actually taking
> vitamins away from them.

That's incorrect. Kitten food contains ***MORE*** vitamins and minerals,
protein and especially *fat* - which an outdoor cat needs more of in colder
weather- than adult foods- other than 'all stages' food- which are about the
same.

Please do a little research before you post bogus information.

Thanks.

Joe Canuck
October 28th 05, 12:43 PM
Ajanta wrote:

> I am feeding two adult strays, one regularly. Do they need more
> nourishent in the winter months? If so, would it be better to increase
> their regular food or to switch to kitten formula, partially or
> completely? Thanks.

Strays don't have the pampered easy lives of indoor cats so I wouldn't
say you could go wrong feeding them one would feed a very active animal.

Kitten formula is packed with more nutrition than adult food, given the
same amount of each.

It depends on what kind of lives they live during the winter. It is
possible they spend a good chunk of their time holed up sleeping
somewhere that they have found to be warm and relatively safe.

Do they look overweight?
Does it look like they have been losing weight over a period of time?

whitershadeofpale
October 28th 05, 04:16 PM
DW. wrote:

> That's incorrect. Kitten food contains ***MORE*** vitamins and minerals,
> protein and especially *fat* - which an outdoor cat needs more of in colder
> weather- than adult foods- other than 'all stages' food- which are about the
> same.
>
> Please do a little research before you post bogus information.
>
> Thanks.

NO! Thank You!

Here is another classic example of your piousness
or rudeness I can't stand it!

I WON'T HAVE IT! NOT ON MY INTERNET!

DW, please be nice to people.

Look, there is no way you are kind to anyone (INCLUDING KATS)

I know this because, you cannot treat people one way and treat the
lesser (cats) another.

YOU ARE AN ARROGANT SELF SERVING lonely sad pathetic soul.

I feel sorry for you. I put you right up there with John Doe.

There's a fella who tries to be nice, but dang...nothing comes to his
mind but this word troll (and a Dr Suess cat walk, glue and boards)
anyways

Try to be nice to people.

Can't you say what you want without putting someone down.

Like: "I understand that kitten food..."

or...

"When I studied...."

or...

"It's been my experience..."

or...

etc..

see, you don't have to be a fart just to get your message across.

GET SOME TACT ABOUT YOU MAN! and your words will be well recieved.

did you know that no matter how talented you are, or gifted or smart..

there is always someone smarter and richer and more talented down the
line.

WHAT are your credentials, tell us nice stupid people how you came to
be so smart and what gives you the right to talk so ****tie with people

TELLUS BALD MAN, TELL US

No More Retail
October 28th 05, 04:59 PM
In the shelter we give kitten - kitten food and adults -adult senior cat
food that is my experience if it is wrong than I have it backwards. .
Myself and others have seen alot of older cats; which is the type of cat
society we work at, have trouble eating kitten chow something about not
being able digest it easily. I should have added to use senior formula for
the cats outside in the other post that is my fault I apologize

I am not trying to start any flaming :-)

The reason I say that this is what our food says on the back of the food
packages which has on the back Packed full of Protein, fats, carbohydrates,
Vitamins and minerals that an adult cat requires

Helps maintain a healthy weight.
Highly digestible.
100% complete and balanced nutrition for adult cats. Extra packed full of
vitamins and nutrients to help maintain an older cat

the kitten food
100% nutritionally complete and balanced for the first year of life.
Enhanced Protein formula for muscle and immune system development for the
first year.
Small-sized nutrient-rich kibbles for more nutrition in every easy to
swallow bite.
The essential nutrients for growth of kittens as they develop in their first
year.

Ajanta
October 28th 05, 05:35 PM
Phil P. > wrote:

: That's incorrect. Kitten food contains ***MORE*** vitamins and minerals,
: protein and especially *fat* - which an outdoor cat needs more of in colder
: weather- than adult foods- other than 'all stages' food- which are about the
: same.

Thanks. I have always learned from your posts. As I saw it, there were
three options:

1. Feed a little more of the usual adult food.
2. Switch 100% to kitten food during cold months.
3. Partially switch to kitten food, eg, 1/2 adult 1/2 kitten.

Which of these seems right to you?

BTW I am feeding canned food. In Summer I was often in the porch when
she came. These days it is too cold for me (50 deg), but apparently not
for her, because she is able to wait 5-10 minutes at the door until I
notice her.

That may not be possible when it is extremely cold. If so, I will
consider leaving some dry food out. I am even wondering if i could rig
up a bell she could be taught to ring? I don't know how it will go,
will just have to see.

No More Retail
October 28th 05, 05:39 PM
Set up a cat shelter if possible a stray will stay close to a food source
if possible
And yes a cat can be trained to respond to an outside stimulant It just
takes time

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 05:57 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
m...
> In the shelter we give kitten - kitten food and adults -adult senior cat
> food

That's correct- but we're not talking about an indoor shelter cat. An
outdoor stray could use a little extra nutrition and energy during the
colder weather. Kitten food is also better for pregnant and nursing queens
an debilitated cats.


>kitten chow something about not
being able digest it easily.

Kitten food is generally more digestible than adult food. Kittens' stomachs
are smaller and their digestive systems are immature, so, their food must be
highly digestible and they must derive more nutrition from a smaller
quantity of food. That's why kitten food
is highly digestible and energy- and nutrient-dense (more energy/nutrients
per kcal).

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 05:58 PM
"whitershadeofpale" > wrote in message
ups.com...

>
> there is always someone smarter and richer and more talented down the
> line.

Could be- but that someone damn sure isn't you, Babbling Barry the village
idiot! LOL!

No More Retail
October 28th 05, 06:21 PM
You learn something everyday ;-) I always went with what the vets say
they told us basically if its for kittens it means it is for kittens if it
is for adults it means adults. We give a vitamin supplement added into
their food. I guess I am to use to dealing with shelter animals

If I assuming correct I can give the outside cats a little extra oomph by
adding some kitten chow to their adult senior brand
anyone better than the other we use iams, Purina, 9 lives?

whitershadeofpale
October 28th 05, 06:25 PM
does the word Squidworth mean anything to you?

hehehehe

Phil P. wrote:
> "whitershadeofpale" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> >
> > there is always someone smarter and richer and more talented down the
> > line.
>
> Could be- but that someone damn sure isn't you, Babbling Barry the village
> idiot! LOL!

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 07:49 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
m...
> You learn something everyday ;-) I always went with what the vets say
> they told us basically if its for kittens it means it is for kittens if it
> is for adults it means adults.


Most vets aren't well educated in feline nutrition- especially the ones who
graduated >5 years ago. Most vets get their education from pet food company
reps.


We give a vitamin supplement added into
> their food. I guess I am to use to dealing with shelter animals
>
> If I assuming correct I can give the outside cats a little extra oomph by
> adding some kitten chow to their adult senior brand
> anyone better than the other we use iams, Purina, 9 lives?


A little Purina One Growth & Development mixed with Purina One Chicken &
Rice should provide an extra punch. You could even feed all kitten food
during the colder weather. Just keep the bowls in a covered feeding
station- preferably off the ground.

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 07:56 PM
"Ajanta" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote:
>
> : That's incorrect. Kitten food contains ***MORE*** vitamins and
minerals,
> : protein and especially *fat* - which an outdoor cat needs more of in
colder
> : weather- than adult foods- other than 'all stages' food- which are about
the
> : same.
>
> Thanks. I have always learned from your posts. As I saw it, there were
> three options:
>
> 1. Feed a little more of the usual adult food.
> 2. Switch 100% to kitten food during cold months.
> 3. Partially switch to kitten food, eg, 1/2 adult 1/2 kitten.
>
> Which of these seems right to you?


#2 & #3.


>
> BTW I am feeding canned food. In Summer I was often in the porch when
> she came. These days it is too cold for me (50 deg), but apparently not
> for her, because she is able to wait 5-10 minutes at the door until I
> notice her.
>
> That may not be possible when it is extremely cold. If so, I will
> consider leaving some dry food out. I am even wondering if i could rig
> up a bell she could be taught to ring? I don't know how it will go,
> will just have to see.

Since you feed the cat on your porch, have you considered using heated food
& water bowls?

http://www.partipoodlepetsupplies.com/hewafobo.html

Also, have you considered building a small winter shelter?

whitershadeofpale
October 28th 05, 08:07 PM
No...Ajanta, there is no "incorrect" when a cat is on borrowed time.

You feed them whatever you are able to give them (sounds like the money
is not the issue, which is great)

I feed strays daily outside the door here. I give them wet food it is
very cheap anyways...I know they appreciate it. Point is, I give them
what I can.

I hardly think it's a time for Phil to split hairs on the subject. Talk
about priorities eh? Here are stays at least getting something in their
little bellies and PhilThy, wants to say..."Incorrect" about it...oh
well.

I'm going to keep feeding my strays, I've got to fix them up a warm
little hideout, outback.

Are you thinking about some sort of hideout too? to block the wind?


Ajanta wrote:
> D.W. > wrote:
>
> : That's incorrect. Kitten food contains ***MORE*** vitamins and minerals,
> : protein and especially *fat* - which an outdoor cat needs more of in colder
> : weather- than adult foods- other than 'all stages' food- which are about the
> : same.
>
> Thanks. I have always learned from your posts. As I saw it, there were
> three options:
>
> 1. Feed a little more of the usual adult food.
> 2. Switch 100% to kitten food during cold months.
> 3. Partially switch to kitten food, eg, 1/2 adult 1/2 kitten.
>
> Which of these seems right to you?
>
> BTW I am feeding canned food. In Summer I was often in the porch when
> she came. These days it is too cold for me (50 deg), but apparently not
> for her, because she is able to wait 5-10 minutes at the door until I
> notice her.
>
> That may not be possible when it is extremely cold. If so, I will
> consider leaving some dry food out. I am even wondering if i could rig
> up a bell she could be taught to ring? I don't know how it will go,
> will just have to see.

Phil P.
October 28th 05, 08:26 PM
"whitershadeofpale" > wrote in message
oups.com...

>
Here are stays at least getting something in their
> little bellies and PhilThy, wants to say..."Incorrect" about it...oh
> well.

Can't you even comprehend what you read, you babbling idiot? I wasn't
correcting Ajanta, I was commenting on "No More Retail's" statement
regarding the nutritional differences between adult and kitten foods.

Do everyone a favor: Stay out of nutrition, behavior and health threads-
You're dangerous because you're far too ignorant to give anyone advice about
anything concerning cats. You're even too dangerous to kill-file.

Ben
October 28th 05, 08:42 PM
On 28 Oct 2005 08:16:20 -0700, "whitershadeofpale"
> wrote:

>Here is another classic example of your piousness
>or rudeness I can't stand it!
>
>I WON'T HAVE IT! NOT ON MY INTERNET!

Just his piety and rudeness or do you mean in general?

Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some research
before I know if his answer was bogus or not.

Ajanta
October 28th 05, 08:43 PM
Phil P. > wrote:

: Since you feed the cat on your porch, have you considered using
: heated food & water bowls?
:
: http://www.partipoodlepetsupplies.com/hewafobo.html

Now a days I prefer to feed inside, not because the cats are cold
outdoors but I am. One of them, the more regular one, readily comes
inside and hangs around for a while before leaving.

I open the can only when I see her, otherwise it would go stale. Do you
think I should use the heated bowl even with dry food (if I had to
leave it outdoors)?

The problem I am bracing myself for is, how do I know when she arrives?

I know the 1-2 hour window when she comes and I do check often during
it, but sometimes it could still be 5-10 minutes of wait for her. Right
now (50 deg) she is ok with it, but it may not be possible when it gets
bitter cold and windy.

I am brainstroming with the following ideas:

1. Rig up a bell she can learn to use.

2. Rig up a shelter where she could wait for 20-30 minutes. I have no
building skills but there was some discussion about using styrofoam
coolers for such a purpose.

3. Install a cat door, so she could just march in when she comes. Again
I have no skills, don't know the expense, or what it would mean for our
insulation and heating costs.

4. A low tech version of the cat door: just leave the door slightly
ajar so she could push her way in! The attraction of this solution is
that nothing has to be installed, and the insulation problem is only
for short time, once she is definitely in or out I can shut the door
as usual.

whitershadeofpale
October 28th 05, 09:01 PM
Your stray(s) should meow if you get tardy on the food. lol

Ajanta wrote:
> Phil P. > wrote:
>
> : Since you feed the cat on your porch, have you considered using
> : heated food & water bowls?
> :
> : http://www.partipoodlepetsupplies.com/hewafobo.html
>
> Now a days I prefer to feed inside, not because the cats are cold
> outdoors but I am. One of them, the more regular one, readily comes
> inside and hangs around for a while before leaving.
>
> I open the can only when I see her, otherwise it would go stale. Do you
> think I should use the heated bowl even with dry food (if I had to
> leave it outdoors)?
>
> The problem I am bracing myself for is, how do I know when she arrives?
>
> I know the 1-2 hour window when she comes and I do check often during
> it, but sometimes it could still be 5-10 minutes of wait for her. Right
> now (50 deg) she is ok with it, but it may not be possible when it gets
> bitter cold and windy.
>
> I am brainstroming with the following ideas:
>
> 1. Rig up a bell she can learn to use.
>
> 2. Rig up a shelter where she could wait for 20-30 minutes. I have no
> building skills but there was some discussion about using styrofoam
> coolers for such a purpose.
>
> 3. Install a cat door, so she could just march in when she comes. Again
> I have no skills, don't know the expense, or what it would mean for our
> insulation and heating costs.
>
> 4. A low tech version of the cat door: just leave the door slightly
> ajar so she could push her way in! The attraction of this solution is
> that nothing has to be installed, and the insulation problem is only
> for short time, once she is definitely in or out I can shut the door
> as usual.

Ajanta
October 28th 05, 09:06 PM
whitershadeofpale > wrote:

You misunderstood Phil. He wasn't saying it is incorrect to feed the
cats, but that a poster's opinion about nutritional content of kitten
food was incorrect. Whatever you think of Phil's personality or style,
his affection and compassion for cats is self-evident and he'd never
suggest not feeding a hungry cat.

: Are you thinking about some sort of hideout too? to block the wind?

I live in a 3rd floor apartment with an open drafty porch. The cats may
already have a much better shelter as they have access to 7-8
backyards, with garages, basements etc. I don't know where she slept
last winter, but she survived. The neighbor below me used to feed her,
when he returned to Europe I sort of stepped in.

As I replied to Phil, the practical problem I am bracing myself for is
as follows: In Summer I am in the porch a lot. Now a days, it is too
cold for me but not for her and she waits 5-10 minutes until I notice
her and bring her inside to feed her. I know the 1-2 hour window when
she comes and check often during it, but when it gets bitter cold and
windy even this may not be possible, how would I know when she
arrives?

Please see the post above for a few ideas I am brainstroming with.

cybercat
October 28th 05, 10:56 PM
"Ben" > wrote in message
...
> On 28 Oct 2005 08:16:20 -0700, "whitershadeofpale"
> > wrote:
>
> >Here is another classic example of your piousness
> >or rudeness I can't stand it!
> >
> >I WON'T HAVE IT! NOT ON MY INTERNET!
>
> Just his piety and rudeness or do you mean in general?
>
> Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some research
> before I know if his answer was bogus or not.

You should always do your own research. I always do.

whitershadeofpale
October 28th 05, 11:11 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> Do everyone a favor: Stay out of nutrition, behavior and health threads-
> You're dangerous because you're far too ignorant to give anyone advice about
> anything concerning cats. You're even too dangerous to kill-file.

Oh shut up already.

You're problem is that you don't drink enough water to keep your poop
cycle going, therefor, you are full of it bud!

Yep!

Probably got a big ol' canker on your lip for it too!

---MIKE---
October 28th 05, 11:26 PM
>>I am even wondering if i could rig up a
>> bell she could be taught to ring? I don't
>> know how it will go, will just have to
>> see.

When I had Ike (RB) I rigged up a motion sensor aimed at the cat door.
This was connected to a flashing light and chime bell. This way I
always knew right away when Ike wanted to come in.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

No More Retail
October 28th 05, 11:31 PM
Thank you Phil I will make a note of that will try it if it gets actually
cold here in Florida. Both our shelters are total indoors for the cats;
every cat has their own holding area , all kept temperature controlled
buildings. Only thing out side is some of the staffs horses and goats that
live at the shelter

Can't do all kitten food I really meant what I said there are some of the
cats that actually throw it back up if it is all kitten chow going to try
adding a little bit to see if they can tolerate it about 15 cats out of 85
permanet cats we have here at this given moment.
The average kitten is adopted in 10 days after quarantine and shots are
given at the other shelter the cat society only deals with older cats that
were going to be put to sleep for lack of county shelter space

---MIKE---
October 28th 05, 11:32 PM
Ajanta wrote:

>>The problem I am bracing myself for is,
>> how do I know when she arrives?

See my post about a motion sensor.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

whitershadeofpale
October 29th 05, 01:28 AM
Phil P. wrote:

> Most vets aren't well educated in feline nutrition- especially the ones who
> graduated >5 years ago. Most vets get their education from pet food company
> reps.

What malarchy!

You think a man or woman qualified (unlike yourself) to do surgery on
an animal would rely on marketeers to educate themselves on the subject
of nutrition?

You're gonna have to give some kind of supporting evidence, ha! more
than just you're opinion. If I was a vet? I would be greatly offended
at your audacity and pure ignorance.

You must have no clue as to what a real vet has to go through in order
to become a vet. What? You think nutrition is not part of passing the
exam?

Ajanta
October 29th 05, 05:02 AM
Joe Canuck > wrote:

: Do they look overweight?
: Does it look like they have been losing weight over a period of time?

I don't think either is the case.

(1) One cat I feed regularly, almost everyday. She may sneak in some
extra food here and there but I view myself as her primary source of
food. Our "relationship" goes beyond food though, she started visiting
my porch while she was being fed by a neighbor. I think their son was
too much annoyance for her and she used to escape to my higher and
quieter porch immediately after eating. :-) When they moved back to
Europe I took over feeding her.

(2) The other one shows up only once or twice a week but does not have
a starved look and must have some other place(s) to eat.

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 06:32 AM
"Ajanta" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote:
>
> : Since you feed the cat on your porch, have you considered using
> : heated food & water bowls?
> :
> : http://www.partipoodlepetsupplies.com/hewafobo.html
>
> Now a days I prefer to feed inside, not because the cats are cold
> outdoors but I am. One of them, the more regular one, readily comes
> inside and hangs around for a while before leaving.
>
> I open the can only when I see her, otherwise it would go stale. Do you
> think I should use the heated bowl even with dry food (if I had to
> leave it outdoors)?



Heated bowls aren't really necessary for feeding dry food. Heated bowls
keep canned food and water from freezing- but they also dry out the food
fairly rapidly. That shouldn't be a problem if you have a general idea of
the time she usually comes around to eat. Also, heated water evaporates
more quickly in cold weather. So, if you want to use a heated water bowl,
get a large size- 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 gallon.




>
> The problem I am bracing myself for is, how do I know when she arrives?
>
> I know the 1-2 hour window when she comes and I do check often during
> it, but sometimes it could still be 5-10 minutes of wait for her. Right
> now (50 deg) she is ok with it, but it may not be possible when it gets
> bitter cold and windy.
>
> I am brainstroming with the following ideas:
>
> 1. Rig up a bell she can learn to use.
>
> 2. Rig up a shelter where she could wait for 20-30 minutes. I have no
> building skills but there was some discussion about using styrofoam
> coolers for such a purpose.


A medium size Rubbermaid storage bin might work a little better- easier to
make and clean and much sturdier. Just cut a small opening near the corner
of one of the long sides. You can use a utility knife or box cutter to cut
the opening. Put the food bowl at the opposite end from the opening- this
creates a wind block. Face the opening towards the building for added
protection from the wind. Put the bin on 2x4s to keep it off the ground and
line the floor with straw or hay- not blankets or towels. Place a few bricks
or a 5 gal pail filled with dirt on the top so the wind doesn't blow it
over. Don't put a water bowl in the shelter- it could spill. The most
important thing about a winter shelter is keeping the cats *dry*.


>
> 3. Install a cat door, so she could just march in when she comes. Again
> I have no skills, don't know the expense, or what it would mean for our
> insulation and heating costs.


Cat flaps aren't difficult to install- the kit comes with a template for
cutting the hole. But you must cut a hole in the door. If you live in an
apartment, that might be a problem. If you decide to install a cat flap,
you might have to train her how to use it. That means leaving the flap up
until she gets used to walking through it, and gradually lowering the flap a
little every few days. Some cats catch on in an instant- others take a
while. That's why I rarely use cat flaps in my winter feral shelters.


>
> 4. A low tech version of the cat door: just leave the door slightly
> ajar so she could push her way in! The attraction of this solution is
> that nothing has to be installed, and the insulation problem is only
> for short time, once she is definitely in or out I can shut the door
> as usual.

Not a bad idea!

Good luck.

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 06:36 AM
"whitershadeofpale" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
>
> > Most vets aren't well educated in feline nutrition- especially the ones
who
> > graduated >5 years ago. Most vets get their education from pet food
company
> > reps.
>
> What malarchy!


The village idiot has spoken! LOL!


>
> You think a man or woman qualified (unlike yourself) to do surgery on
> an animal would rely on marketeers to educate themselves on the subject
> of nutrition?

Yup.


>
> You're gonna have to give some kind of supporting evidence, ha! more
> than just you're opinion.


Not that I think you'll understand it, but this survey of veterinarians was
published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Association indicated
that nutrition training is inadequate in veterinary schools and quality of
continuing education on nutrition is inferior.

J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996 Mar 1;208(5):674-5
"A survey of veterinarians' knowledge and attitudes about nutrition."
Buffington CA, LaFlamme DP

Don't you ever get tired of shooting yourself in the foot?


> If I was a vet?

God forbid! Never happen. You're far too stupid- as in incapable of
learning. The level of your present ignorance evidences that fact.



I would be greatly offended
> at your audacity and pure ignorance.


LOL! Barry, as an idiot, you can't call anyone ignorant.


>
> You must have no clue as to what a real vet has to go through in order
> to become a vet. What? You think nutrition is not part of passing the
> exam?

My vet is a retired veterinary professor, you brain dead moron. So I know
exactly how much time is spent on nutrition in vet school. That's why I
started studying feline nutrition, moron.

Go away, Barry and stop cluttering the group with your mindless gibberish-
all you're doing is making it harder for people to find the useful
information.

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 06:38 AM
"Ben" > wrote in message
...

>
> Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some research
> before I know if his answer was bogus or not.

How will you know if the information you find is bogus or not? You don't
seem bright enough to tell the difference. LOL!

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 06:39 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you Phil I will make a note of that will try it if it gets actually
> cold here in Florida. Both our shelters are total indoors for the cats;
> every cat has their own holding area , all kept temperature controlled
> buildings. Only thing out side is some of the staffs horses and goats
that
> live at the shelter
>
> Can't do all kitten food I really meant what I said there are some of the
> cats that actually throw it back up if it is all kitten chow going to try
> adding a little bit to see if they can tolerate it about 15 cats out of
85
> permanet cats we have here at this given moment.


I suggested feeding kitten food to only outdoor adult cats during cold
weather. If your cats live indoors or outdoors in temperate climate feeding
kitten food might not be such a good idea. The increased nutrient density
could result in obesity.


> The average kitten is adopted in 10 days after quarantine


10 days? That's fantastic! I still have kittens from last kitten season
that are now a year old and more difficult to adopt. This kitten season was
(is) exceptionally heavy up here. I know we'll still have some these
kittens next year. Sometimes I feel like I'm bailing out a sinking ship
with a colander.


and shots are
> given at the other shelter the cat society only deals with older cats that
> were going to be put to sleep for lack of county shelter space

That's wonderful. We're no-kill, also. We cruise the county kill shelters
and try to take as many death-row cats as we can. I can never take enough.

No More Retail
October 29th 05, 06:42 AM
You are up late Phil
"

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 06:49 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> You are up late Phil


Just got in a little while ago. The only time I can feed one of my colonies
is very late at night- the town prohibits feeding ferals.

No More Retail
October 29th 05, 06:55 AM
We do that here in Florida the 3 surround counties call the cat society
before they put an older cat down. Only time we put an cat down is if it is
absolutely medically necessary. We have a permanet fixture named Charley
who is blind who has been at the shelter for 8 years. We have 48 kittens at
the other shelter that deals with all animals. The nice thing is we belong
to a animal companion group here that helps place cats and dogs etc to our
senior citizens. It is a proven fact that a senior citizen lives longer
when they have an animal companion compared to no one at all. Being in
florida home of the newly weds and nearly deads we place animals every day
to happy homes.

We also have major news channel in our area that does a pet segiment that
shows who we have up for adoption after the segiment that animal never is
there more than a week or two max. We have a dog that looks like "snowball"
from the incident . We had 200 calls for him that day brought the people
in for interviews; long damn day, one family got lucky We got even luckier
50 families took new friends home that day. It always feels great to see an
animal go to a happy home



We just adopted the last of the 200 katrina pets we had last week befoer the
hurricane. Our Naples shelter near where the hurricane came in there are
over 300 foster families taking care of Katrina refugees. They all are
studing at the vet college down in that part of florida

whitershadeofpale
October 29th 05, 06:56 AM
Phil P. wrote:

> Go away, Barry and stop cluttering the group with your mindless gibberish-
> all you're doing is making it harder for people to find the useful
> information.

Nutrition nutrition...and you went to shcool you say...

hmmm lets see...

shall I feed the cat mule dicks today, or will it be cow foreheads

someones got your brain in a twist squidworth!

bwoooo har har har

have you checked the labels lately! Well have you?

Hell, I never went to school to learn about pork bellies and chicken
lips!

snaaa ha ha ha

gimmie a break UB

Real nutrition is what Meghan talked about. She makes her own cat food.

No More Retail
October 29th 05, 06:57 AM
They tried that here and found out that the local fire department and police
officers union was animal friendly and refused to enforce that law. Which
the idiots who chartered it are gone now.

carola
October 29th 05, 07:27 AM
: Thanks. I have always learned from your posts. As I saw it, there were
: three options:
:
: 1. Feed a little more of the usual adult food.
: 2. Switch 100% to kitten food during cold months.
: 3. Partially switch to kitten food, eg, 1/2 adult 1/2 kitten.
:
: Which of these seems right to you?


4. Dry food, outdoor cat formula is very good too.

carola

John Doe
October 29th 05, 08:24 AM
A troll's confession to committing a crime

"Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com> wrote:

> Path: newssvr25.news.prodigy.net!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganew s.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:53:17 -0500
> From: "Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <271020051941138602%ajanta null.void> <B8g8f.214856$p_1.132288 tornado.tampabay.rr.com> <N8GdnS8-RNCLUfzeRVn-gA giganews.com> <eVr8f.214900$p_1.53859 tornado.tampabay.rr.com> <9dudndXN6dDwxP_eRVn-qg giganews.com> <B6t8f.171743$xl6.60932 tornado.tampabay.rr.com> <85mdnTgzhaA17v_enZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d giganews.com> <1130545709.389821.96270 g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <l-edncw6IcnXlv7eRVn-vw giganews.com> <OYD8f.172130$xl6.9887 tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Any winter adjustment in the diet?
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:49:21 -0400
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> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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>
>
> "No More Retail" <nowaytospam noway.com> wrote in message
> news:OYD8f.172130$xl6.9887 tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> You are up late Phil
>
>
> Just got in a little while ago. The only time I can feed one of my colonies
> is very late at night- the town prohibits feeding ferals.
>
>
>
>
>

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 10:07 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
om...
> We do that here in Florida the 3 surround counties call the cat society
> before they put an older cat down. Only time we put an cat down is if it
is
> absolutely medically necessary.


That's our policy, too.


We have a permanet fixture named Charley
> who is blind who has been at the shelter for 8 years. We have 48 kittens
at
> the other shelter that deals with all animals. The nice thing is we
belong
> to a animal companion group here that helps place cats and dogs etc to our
> senior citizens. It is a proven fact that a senior citizen lives longer
> when they have an animal companion compared to no one at all.


We have a pet therapy program in a hospital. The Drs. actually prescribe
pet
therapy for many patients. If I had more people, I'd like to expand to
senior citizen homes.



Being in
> florida home of the newly weds and nearly deads we place animals every day
> to happy homes.

You might want to think about placing some kind of sticker/notice in the
homes of the elderly in case of an emergency so the cats will be taken care
of. Something like this:

http://www.maxshouse.com/Illustrations/fire_rescue_sticker.jpg


Actually, everyone should have a sticker like this on their front and rear
doors.



>
> We also have major news channel in our area that does a pet segiment that
> shows who we have up for adoption after the segiment that animal never is
> there more than a week or two max.


Yeah. We had a spot on a local cable channel- but a new company bought them
out and wanted to charge us. Nice, huh?


We have a dog that looks like "snowball"
> from the incident . We had 200 calls for him that day brought the people
> in for interviews; long damn day, one family got lucky We got even
luckier
> 50 families took new friends home that day. It always feels great to see
an
> animal go to a happy home


It sure is! The only better feeling is pulling a cat through a near-death
crisis and seeing that tail finally go up! I've been working with two
panleuk kittens that finally made it through the danger zone and are on
their way to a full recovery.

However, after reading the cat newsgroups for awhile - you'll start to
tremble and second-guess every
placement you make.




> We just adopted the last of the 200 katrina pets we had last week befoer
the
> hurricane. Our Naples shelter near where the hurricane came in there are
> over 300 foster families taking care of Katrina refugees. They all are
> studing at the vet college down in that part of florida

UFLA in Gainesville has one of the most successful TNR programs in the
country- Operation Catnip.

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 10:10 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> They tried that here and found out that the local fire department and
police
> officers union was animal friendly and refused to enforce that law. Which
> the idiots who chartered it are gone now.

Most of the towns in my area are feral friendly or turn a blind eye. But
this one town is ~20 miles away in a different (hick) county and a real
PIA-- its another LaCrosse. I have to *really* camouflage the winter
shelters and feeding stations and make midnight 'commando' feeding raids.
If the cats don't get fed, they'll start looking for food where they could
get trapped and killed.

I'm working on a plan to trap and relocate the colony- relocating a colony
is a very difficult project- especially from an uncooperative town. The
cats must be confined in a small area in the new location until they're
acclimated. There's always a high risk that one or more of the cats will
try to return to their old territory. I don't think they'll be safe where
they are for much longer- so, I'll probably have to make the move in the
early spring.

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 10:15 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com> wrote:
> > "Ben" <nonspecified null.null> wrote in message
>
> >> Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some
> >> research before I know if his answer was bogus or not.
>
> > How will you know if the information you find is bogus or not?
> > You don't seem bright enough to tell the difference. LOL!
>
> It must be very entertaining inside your head Phil.
>
> But seriously. Calling someone stupid as you often do is the laziest
> putdown.

You only feel that way because you're stupid. LOL!

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 10:19 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> A troll's confession to committing a crime


Yeah, I'm a troll, moron. Nothing gets past your lightening quick
perception. LOL!

I commit the same crime every day- sometimes even twice in the same day.
What is a coward like you who hides behind a fake name going to do about it,
huh?

Phil P.
October 29th 05, 10:19 AM
"whitershadeofpale" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
>
> > Go away, Barry and stop cluttering the group with your mindless
gibberish-
> > all you're doing is making it harder for people to find the useful
> > information.
>
> Nutrition nutrition...and you went to shcool you say...

No, moron, I didn't say I studied feline nutrition in school. Perhaps your
reading comprehension deficit is a cause of your stupidity.

John Doe
October 29th 05, 10:20 AM
"Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com> wrote:
> "Ben" <nonspecified null.null> wrote in message

>> Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some
>> research before I know if his answer was bogus or not.

> How will you know if the information you find is bogus or not?
> You don't seem bright enough to tell the difference. LOL!

It must be very entertaining inside your head Phil.

But seriously. Calling someone stupid as you often do is the laziest
putdown.


>
>
>
>
>
>
> Path: newssvr11.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy. com!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.c om!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.dca.gigane ws.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews .com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:42:08 -0500
> From: "Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <271020051941138602%ajanta null.void> <B8g8f.214856$p_1.132288 tornado.tampabay.rr.com> <N8GdnS8-RNCLUfzeRVn-gA giganews.com> <1130512580.487409.17370 g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5iv4m1ttssbus9sn3kas66ndje74msg7vf 4ax.com>
> Subject: Re: Any winter adjustment in the diet?
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:38:12 -0400
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>

cybercat
October 29th 05, 12:13 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com> wrote:
> > "Ben" <nonspecified null.null> wrote in message
>
> >> Either way, good luck with that, althout I'll have to do some
> >> research before I know if his answer was bogus or not.
>
> > How will you know if the information you find is bogus or not?
> > You don't seem bright enough to tell the difference. LOL!
>
> It must be very entertaining inside your head Phil.
>
> But seriously. Calling someone stupid as you often do is the laziest
> putdown.
>

Or he could be replying to too many stupid people.
Always a hazard in Usenet.

Meanwhile, what really IS stupid is coming in to a cat discussion
group, indicating that your cat is showing symptoms that can indicate
illness or parasites, then announcing that you are not taking the cat to
the vet and expecting people who care about these animals NOT to
suggest you take it to a vet. It is equally stupid and unreasonable to
expect said people NOT to get upset when you declare that you will
not take the cat to the vet. If you must neglect your cat, must you
announce it?

It is reasonable to suspect that people who do this are doing it to
get a rise out of the cat people. And THAT my friend, really is trolling.

Not being a smart ass. Not having the unfortunate habit of advancing
valid arguments and taking apart bad ones. Not even swearing or making
personal attacks. Posting just so that you will upset people meets the
simplest working definition of trolling.

Since you love to point your cyberfinger and yell "troll" at anyone you
dislike, it seems you live in a glass house, J.D. Just something to think
about.

No More Retail
October 29th 05, 02:07 PM
Standard policy when we bring a care package to the home when some one
adopts they get food for about a week pet supplies and that sticker is
standard fixture