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Glitter Ninja
November 4th 05, 04:38 AM
Well, I got Spam to the vet today, and discovered he wasn't as
arthritic as thought. His back legs are the result of an underdeveloped
cerebellum and he isn't in any pain, but we should watch for arthritis
in his hips in the future.
He had a very slight kidney infection which is what was making him pee
on the floor. The good news is it allowed the vet to detect early
kidney failure, which we can treat (with food, apparently) and isn't as
serious as finding it later. If he hadn't been peeing on the floor I
wouldn't have taken him to the vet.
But he also had a heart murmur and a slightly enlarged heart. He
seems OK so far but we've got an ultrasound scheduled for Tuesday. He
may be on meds for the rest of his life.
Man, getting old is hard on a cat! Wish us luck.

Stacia

cybercat
November 4th 05, 05:24 AM
"Glitter Ninja" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I got Spam to the vet today, and discovered he wasn't as
> arthritic as thought. His back legs are the result of an underdeveloped
> cerebellum [...] Man, getting old is hard on a cat!

Has his cerebellum always been underdeveloped? If so, how wonderful
that now is the first time you have seen the effects, when he is old.

>Wish us luck.
>

Indeed. I will keep you both in my prayers.

Phil P.
November 4th 05, 08:36 AM
"Brandy Alexandre" > wrote in message
...

I've only just
> started weekly fluids need-it-or-not.


Brilliant. Why are you putting additional stress on the kidneys when she
doesn't need fluid replacement?? Fluids should be given to correct
dehydration or to promote diuresis *on a short-term basis* to augment GRF
and remove uremic toxins (BUN/Cr.) *acutely*. Diuresis isn't some cheap
form of dialysis. Giving her fluids when she doesn't need them promotes
diuresis-- which increases single-nephron GFR and promotes glomerular
hyperfiltration which *promotes progression* of CRF. But you're smart and
know all this and don't need anyone to tell you

Have you been giving her a potassium supplement while she's been receiving
fluid therapy? Probably not. Fluid therapy induces rapid urine formation
which induces increased potassium excretion. CRF cats should receive a
potassium supplement even if they're not receiving fluid therapy because
they can't concentrate their urine and urinate more frequently than normal
cats. But you're smart and know all this and don't need anyone to tell you.




She, too, has a heart murmur,
> which makes the fluid thing tricky,

Take a break from your porn and gossip newsgroups and research "volume
overload".

With every post, you make it more and more obvious that you're not suited to
be entrusted with a cat's life- *especially* a sick cat.

5cats
November 4th 05, 02:05 PM
Brandy**Alexandre wrote:

> I've only just
> started weekly fluids need-it-or-not.

need-it-or-not?
Why on earth would you stress the cat with an unneeded proceedure?

Phil P
November 4th 05, 04:55 PM
I set this post to detonate a few feet under the sand where your head is so
I know you'll see it.

"Brandy Alexandre" > wrote in message
...

I've only just
> started weekly fluids need-it-or-not.


Brilliant. Why are you putting additional stress on the kidneys when she
doesn't need fluid replacement?? Fluids should be given to correct
dehydration or to promote diuresis *on a short-term basis* to augment GRF
and remove uremic toxins (BUN/Cr.) *acutely*. Diuresis isn't some cheap
form of dialysis. Giving her fluids when she doesn't need them promotes
diuresis-- which increases single-nephron GFR and promotes glomerular
hyperfiltration which *promotes progression* of CRF. But you're smart and
know all this and don't need anyone to tell you

Have you been giving her a potassium supplement while she's been receiving
fluid therapy? Probably not. Fluid therapy induces rapid urine formation
which induces increased potassium excretion. CRF cats should receive a
potassium supplement even if they're not receiving fluid therapy because
they can't concentrate their urine and urinate more frequently than normal
cats. But you're smart and know all this and don't need anyone to tell you.




She, too, has a heart murmur,
> which makes the fluid thing tricky,

Take a break from your porn and gossip newsgroups and research "volume
overload".

With every post, you make it more and more obvious that you're not suited to
be entrusted with a cat's life- *especially* a sick cat.

cybercat
November 4th 05, 05:28 PM
"5cats" > wrote in message
...
> Brandy Alexandre wrote:
>
> > I've only just
> > started weekly fluids need-it-or-not.
>
> need-it-or-not?
> Why on earth would you stress the cat with an unneeded proceedure?

She's insane and not very bright. At the risk of being one of those assholes
who announces every click of her killfile .... let's just say that I have
begun
to use mine.

cybercat
November 4th 05, 05:31 PM
"Phil P" > wrote


> With every post, you make it more and more obvious that you're not suited
to
> be entrusted with a cat's life- *especially* a sick cat.
>

One of the saddest facts in life is that we cannot stop idiots from owning
animals and doing terrible things to them. No exaggeration on my part,
either. It's right up there with child abuse IMO. In both cases creatures
who depend completely upon us are being abused.

Phil P.
November 4th 05, 07:51 PM
"Brandy Alexandre" > wrote in message
...
> 5cats > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> > Brandy Alexandre wrote:
> >
> >> I've only just
> >> started weekly fluids need-it-or-not.
> >
> > need-it-or-not?
> > Why on earth would you stress the cat with an unneeded proceedure?
> >
>
> It doesn't stress her mentally anymore.


The *kidneys*, moron- why stress her already impaired kidneys with
unnecessary fluid therapy. You really are clueless.


> > It doesn't stress her mentally anymore. She has become quick accepting
> > of it. I said "need-it-or-not" mostly because the vet said I should
> > consider giving it regularly, but a few times I could see that it
> > wasn't necessary.

You saw it wasn't necessary? You saw? What did you see? How could *you*
tell if she needed fluid therapy or not? You're not exactly a Felinestein.


But lately I've noticed a "need it" anyway, so it's
> > a moot point.

You noticed? How?



She only gets 50-75ml because of her heart, so there's
> > little bio stress.


"Just a little" is too much if it isn't necessary. Take a break from the
porn and gossip newsgroups and research CRF and fluid therapy- oh that's
right- that's no fun.


> I'm sorry I didn't write a lengthy dissertation and provide a tome of
> backstory to validate my comment. Try to just trust there's a reason
> for everything.

Trust you? ROTFL! I wouldn't trust you with a stuffed cat.

November 4th 05, 08:12 PM
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 04:38:17 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter
Ninja) wrote:

> Well, I got Spam to the vet today, and discovered he wasn't as
>arthritic as thought. His back legs are the result of an underdeveloped
>cerebellum and he isn't in any pain, but we should watch for arthritis
>in his hips in the future.
> He had a very slight kidney infection which is what was making him pee
>on the floor. The good news is it allowed the vet to detect early
>kidney failure, which we can treat (with food, apparently) and isn't as
>serious as finding it later. If he hadn't been peeing on the floor I
>wouldn't have taken him to the vet.
> But he also had a heart murmur and a slightly enlarged heart. He
>seems OK so far but we've got an ultrasound scheduled for Tuesday. He
>may be on meds for the rest of his life.
> Man, getting old is hard on a cat! Wish us luck.
>
>Stacia

I'm so sorry. I know it's tricky. My Cosmo was diagnosed in May of
2000 with early CRF and a significant heart murmur, and he is still
with us. He went through fluids briefly, but a second opinion decided
he did not need to continue those. He is on a potassium supplement,
too. And he is doing amazingly well, age and problems considered.
Wishing you best of luck that your Spam will have many, many years
left yet.

Ginger-lyn

Home Pages:
http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)
http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against
Animals in Movies Website)

5cats
November 4th 05, 08:46 PM
Brandy**Alexandre wrote:


> I'm sorry I didn't write a lengthy dissertation and provide a tome of
> backstory to validate my comment. Try to just trust there's a reason
> for everything.

Trust you? Um, no, don't think I will.

> It doesn't stress her mentally anymore. She has become quick accepting
> of it. I said "need-it-or-not" mostly because the vet said I should
> consider giving it regularly, but a few times I could see that it
> wasn't necessary. But lately I've noticed a "need it" anyway, so it's
> a moot point. She only gets 50-75ml because of her heart, so there's
> little bio stress.

So the VET says it's needed, but for some reason YOU thought it wasn't?

Sigh.

5cats
November 4th 05, 09:34 PM
Brandy**Alexandre wrote:

> 5cats > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>> Brandy**Alexandre wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm sorry I didn't write a lengthy dissertation and provide a
>>> tome of backstory to validate my comment. Try to just trust
>>> there's a reason for everything.
>>
>> Trust you? Um, no, don't think I will.
>>
>>> It doesn't stress her mentally anymore. She has become quick
>>> accepting of it. I said "need-it-or-not" mostly because the vet
>>> said I should consider giving it regularly, but a few times I
>>> could see that it wasn't necessary. But lately I've noticed a
>>> "need it" anyway, so it's a moot point. She only gets 50-75ml
>>> because of her heart, so there's little bio stress.
>>
>> So the VET says it's needed, but for some reason YOU thought it
>> wasn't?
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>
> Ah, I'm starting to see the seams of another sock puppet. Either way
> I'll be wrong and you will bend over backward trying to be seen and get
> others going. I feel sorry for your cats been prisoner to someone sick
> as you. How many times will you change your ID so pathetically
> desperate to be seen?
>

I'm relatively new here, maybe it's been a couple of months already. (my,
how time flies) Long enough anyway to form my own opinions. Me, myself
and I, but not anyone else's puppet.

Phil P.
November 4th 05, 09:41 PM
"Glitter Ninja" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I got Spam to the vet today, and discovered he wasn't as
> arthritic as thought. His back legs are the result of an underdeveloped
> cerebellum and he isn't in any pain, but we should watch for arthritis
> in his hips in the future.


Cerebellar hypoplasia sometimes happens when a cat was infected with
parvovirus as a kitten.



> He had a very slight kidney infection which is what was making him pee
> on the floor.


Sounds more like feline interstitial cystitis. How did the vet diagnose a
kidney infection? Without ultrasounds or excretory urography or a urine
culture with urine taken directly from the kidneys- its pretty hard to
localize an infection in the urinary tract. IOW, its very difficult to tell
if an infection is in the upper or the lower urinary tract without
specialized tests.

Infections in the kidneys are called pyelonephritis- and
usually don't produce any signs unless its severe. If Spam actually has a
kidney infection, it might have damaged his kidneys- which would account for
his increased BUN/Cr.-- but I think its unlikely. Contrary to popular
belief, urinary tract infections in cats aren't very common (except in
diabetic and moderate CRF cats) due to the high acidity and specific gravity
of feline urine. Most of the time,
crystalluria and interstitial cystitis are lumped under "UTI".



The good news is it allowed the vet to detect early
> kidney failure, which we can treat (with food, apparently) and isn't as
> serious as finding it later. If he hadn't been peeing on the floor I
> wouldn't have taken him to the vet.
> But he also had a heart murmur and a slightly enlarged heart.



He may not be in early CRF. Heart disease can cause prerenal azotemia.
Elevated BUN/Cr. can result from prerenal or postrenal causes, too. Did the
vet check Spam's urine specific gravity? Elevated BUN/Cr. with concentrated
urine (normal USG) would suggest prerenal azotemia rather than CRF.





He
> seems OK so far but we've got an ultrasound scheduled for Tuesday. He
> may be on meds for the rest of his life.
> Man, getting old is hard on a cat! Wish us luck.

Believe it or not, heart disease is not difficult to treat in cats-
providing its caught early. Some of the heart medications- such as
diltiazem and atenolol have proved to be truly wonder drugs for cats!


Best of luck,

Phil

Phil P.
November 4th 05, 09:42 PM
"Brandy Alexandre" > wrote in message
...
> 5cats > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> > Brandy Alexandre wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I'm sorry I didn't write a lengthy dissertation and provide a
> >> tome of backstory to validate my comment. Try to just trust
> >> there's a reason for everything.
> >
> > Trust you? Um, no, don't think I will.
> >
> >> It doesn't stress her mentally anymore. She has become quick
> >> accepting of it. I said "need-it-or-not" mostly because the vet
> >> said I should consider giving it regularly, but a few times I
> >> could see that it wasn't necessary. But lately I've noticed a
> >> "need it" anyway, so it's a moot point. She only gets 50-75ml
> >> because of her heart, so there's little bio stress.
> >
> > So the VET says it's needed, but for some reason YOU thought it
> > wasn't?
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
>
> Ah, I'm starting to see the seams of another sock puppet. Either way
> I'll be wrong and you will bend over backward trying to be seen and get
> others going. I feel sorry for your cats been prisoner to someone sick
> as you. How many times will you change your ID so pathetically
> desperate to be seen?

That's hilarious! The bimbo thinks 5cats is me because he doesn't agree
with your stupidity either! LOL! You truly are an asshole.

Phil P.
November 4th 05, 09:42 PM
"Brandy Alexandre" > wrote in message
...
> What fluids does your vet give you? Mine gives me Normosol, which
> has potassium, and injects additional potassium, so I don't have to
> give her any supplements for fluid therapy.

I see you read my post because you wouldn't have mentioned or even known
about potassium supplements with fluid therapy, otherwise. You're a lousy
liar.

Joe Canuck
November 4th 05, 09:54 PM
Brandy Alexandre wrote:

> 5cats > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>
>>Brandy Alexandre wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm sorry I didn't write a lengthy dissertation and provide a
>>>tome of backstory to validate my comment. Try to just trust
>>>there's a reason for everything.
>>
>>Trust you? Um, no, don't think I will.
>>
>>
>>>It doesn't stress her mentally anymore. She has become quick
>>>accepting of it. I said "need-it-or-not" mostly because the vet
>>>said I should consider giving it regularly, but a few times I
>>>could see that it wasn't necessary. But lately I've noticed a
>>>"need it" anyway, so it's a moot point. She only gets 50-75ml
>>>because of her heart, so there's little bio stress.
>>
>>So the VET says it's needed, but for some reason YOU thought it
>>wasn't?
>>
>>Sigh.
>>
>
>
> Ah, I'm starting to see the seams of another sock puppet. Either way
> I'll be wrong and you will bend over backward trying to be seen and get
> others going. I feel sorry for your cats been prisoner to someone sick
> as you. How many times will you change your ID so pathetically
> desperate to be seen?
>

Everyone online that disagrees with you seems to fall into one of two
categories according to you:

1) A sock puppet who desperately wants you to read their rhetoric.
2) A stalker who is hounding you for some unknown reason.

The above indicates you think the world revolves around you and that you
think you are more important than you actually are.

More proof of the later is provided by you insisting on using a pseudo
name you became known as in your former porno career. Yet, you also
claim to have moved beyond that career. Seems to me moving beyond that
career means leaving the name go as well.

In any case, getting back to feline matters, you'd do well to forget
about all that and concentrate on taking better care of your cat. Lately
in here you certainly haven't provided much indication you are doing
that very well.

Glitter Ninja
November 5th 05, 01:23 PM
"Phil P." > writes:
>"Glitter Ninja" > wrote :

>> Well, I got Spam to the vet today, and discovered he wasn't as
>> arthritic as thought. His back legs are the result of an underdeveloped
>> cerebellum and he isn't in any pain, but we should watch for arthritis
>> in his hips in the future.

>Cerebellar hypoplasia sometimes happens when a cat was infected with
>parvovirus as a kitten.

Yes, that's what the vet called it. She said he had the classic
symptoms of back leg muscle tremors and extending his front legs out a
little more than "normal" when he walks. She thinks his mom had
distemper when she was pregnant with kittens.

>> He had a very slight kidney infection which is what was making him pee
>> on the floor.

>Sounds more like feline interstitial cystitis. How did the vet diagnose a
>kidney infection?

It's not definite. The vet said that their in-house test showed some
bacteria in the urine sample but the urine is dilute, so it may not be
accurate. They put him on Clavamox as a just-in-case and we'll get the
lab results that they sent out for on Monday. If there's no infection
they'll let me know and we'll stop the Clavamox.

>Without ultrasounds or excretory urography or a urine
>culture with urine taken directly from the kidneys- its pretty hard to
>localize an infection in the urinary tract.

The sample was taken from his kidneys, if I understood correctly,
because he never urinated while at the vet. I don't know if that makes
a difference or not. They think there may be some crystals in the
urine, too, but that's going to be determined by the more extensive
urine test being done, which should include some of the other items you
mentioned that should be tested for.

>Believe it or not, heart disease is not difficult to treat in cats-
>providing its caught early. Some of the heart medications- such as
>diltiazem and atenolol have proved to be truly wonder drugs for cats!

I hope so! Thanks for all the information. I feel a lot better about
it now that I've read yours and others' posts.

Stacia

November 5th 05, 06:14 PM
On 4 Nov 2005 20:52:47 GMT, "Brandy**Alexandre"
> wrote:

> > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>>
>> I'm so sorry. I know it's tricky. My Cosmo was diagnosed in May
>> of 2000 with early CRF and a significant heart murmur, and he is
>> still with us. He went through fluids briefly, but a second
>> opinion decided he did not need to continue those. He is on a
>> potassium supplement, too. And he is doing amazingly well, age
>> and problems considered. Wishing you best of luck that your Spam
>> will have many, many years left yet.
>>
>> Ginger-lyn
>>
>
>What fluids does your vet give you? Mine gives me Normosol, which
>has potassium, and injects additional potassium, so I don't have to
>give her any supplements for fluid therapy.

Lactated ringer's, and it did include potassium, so in the short time
he received fluids, I obviously was not giving him the extra potassium
supplement. However, he is not on fluids now, but still receives the
potassium (not just for the CRF, but because of his heart, he is also
on Lasix. Talk about a delicate balance!).

Ginger-lyn

Home Pages:
http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)
http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against
Animals in Movies Website)

Joe Canuck
November 5th 05, 10:58 PM
Brandy Alexandre wrote:

> > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>
>>On 4 Nov 2005 20:52:47 GMT, "Brandy Alexandre"
> wrote:
>>
>>
> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm so sorry. I know it's tricky. My Cosmo was diagnosed in
>>>>May of 2000 with early CRF and a significant heart murmur, and
>>>>he is still with us. He went through fluids briefly, but a
>>>>second opinion decided he did not need to continue those. He is
>>>>on a potassium supplement, too. And he is doing amazingly well,
>>>>age and problems considered. Wishing you best of luck that your
>>>>Spam will have many, many years left yet.
>>>>
>>>>Ginger-lyn
>>>>
>>>
>>>What fluids does your vet give you? Mine gives me Normosol, which
>>>has potassium, and injects additional potassium, so I don't have
>>>to give her any supplements for fluid therapy.
>>
>>Lactated ringer's, and it did include potassium, so in the short
>>time he received fluids, I obviously was not giving him the extra
>>potassium supplement. However, he is not on fluids now, but still
>>receives the potassium (not just for the CRF, but because of his
>>heart, he is also on Lasix. Talk about a delicate balance!).
>>
>>Ginger-lyn
>>
>
>
> Ah, Kami's murmur isn't bad, so she doesn't take medication. I was
> just thinking

Now *that* is really hard to believe!

Rhonda
November 6th 05, 03:22 AM
Glitter Ninja wrote:

>
> Yes, that's what the vet called it. She said he had the classic
> symptoms of back leg muscle tremors and extending his front legs out a
> little more than "normal" when he walks. She thinks his mom had
> distemper when she was pregnant with kittens.

We had a kitten with CH, also. Our vet said the same as yours -- it
occurs when the mother has feline distemper during pregnancy, and the
kittens' cerebellums do not fully develop.

That's interesting that your cat has a kidney infection. How old is he?
We lost our CH kitten at 7 weeks due to either a kidney infection or
kidney abnormalities, we were not able to find out if that part was
genetic. Luckily, his siblings had only slight tremors that they seem to
have grown out of, and one of his brothers has neurological problems
with his eyes (very limited vision.)

Good luck with Spam, I hope he's feeling better by now.

Rhonda

Glitter Ninja
November 7th 05, 11:32 AM
Rhonda > writes:
>Glitter Ninja wrote:

>> Yes, that's what the vet called it. She said he had the classic
>> symptoms of back leg muscle tremors and extending his front legs out a
>> little more than "normal" when he walks. She thinks his mom had
>> distemper when she was pregnant with kittens.

>That's interesting that your cat has a kidney infection. How old is he?
>We lost our CH kitten at 7 weeks due to either a kidney infection or
>kidney abnormalities

Hmm, I wonder if kidney problems are common in CH cats? From what I
can tell, though, kidney problems are common in a lot of cats,
regardless of other problems.
Spam is 13. He was born probably in the summer of 1992, and we got
him in October of 1992. Since we started the renal food diet and have
given him antibiotics, he has really gotten better. He walks further
with little or no heavy breathing afterwards, there is no more peeing on
the floor and his diarrhea stopped. He'll probably have another tizzy
on Tuesday when he goes in for an ultrasound though, he can't stand car
rides.

Stacia