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Teddy
November 11th 05, 01:11 PM
One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
Thanks

whitershadeofpale
November 11th 05, 01:29 PM
Teddy wrote:
> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> Thanks

sounds like tape worms

nothing to be alarmed about, you can get a 2 pill dose (pending on his
weight)
knocks it right out. (around $20 bucks)

Tapeworms come from fleas. (carriers)

It's not rice...hehe

Wendy
November 11th 05, 01:35 PM
Your cat probably has a tape worm and you are finding tape worm segments
that are being shed. Collect a few in a jar as evidence (in case the vet
asks how you know the cat has tape worm) and call the vet. He can give you
medication that will get rid of the tapeworm. As this is an inside/outside
cat it's important to treat for fleas pretty much year round as they are the
most common vector for tapeworm in cats.

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/tapeworms.html


"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
>
> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> Thanks
>

whitershadeofpale
November 11th 05, 01:39 PM
Wendy wrote:
> Your cat probably has a tape worm and you are finding tape worm segments
> that are being shed. Collect a few in a jar as evidence (in case the vet
> asks how you know the cat has tape worm) and call the vet. He can give you
> medication that will get rid of the tapeworm. As this is an inside/outside
> cat it's important to treat for fleas pretty much year round as they are the
> most common vector for tapeworm in cats.
>
> http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/tapeworms.html
>
>
> "Teddy" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> > that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> > what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> > others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> > Thanks
> >

How do you feel about OTC solution for this?

They are pretty distinct as far as appearance

Teddy
November 11th 05, 02:03 PM
OTC is what I try to use as I've spent a fortune taking cats to the vet.
I didn't intend to have this many cats but...... Anyway, I plan on not
replacing these as they 'leave'. Thank you for your help.

Phil P.
November 11th 05, 02:37 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> OTC is what I try to use as I've spent a fortune taking cats to the vet.
> I didn't intend to have this many cats but...... Anyway, I plan on not
> replacing these as they 'leave'. Thank you for your help.

OTC wormers are older drugs that were developed years ago and can be very
toxic and irritating to your cat and should be avoided at all costs. Many
deaths in cats have been reported from the use of OTC medications.

If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit (praziquantel) pill
which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer. Cats can
acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former is
acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored. Droncit
kills them both with one dose.

Forget the OTC.

.oO rach Oo.
November 11th 05, 02:51 PM
sounds like worms. One of ours had that when she came from the shelter. The
vet took care of it in a two pill , one day session.

--
..oO rach Oo.


"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
>
> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> Thanks
>

November 11th 05, 03:00 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit (praziquantel) pill
> which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer. Cats can
> acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former is
> acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored. Droncit
> kills them both with one dose.


I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit (it
was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily infested,
they're only doing one dose.

Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.

Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
kittens? And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?

Juls
November 11th 05, 05:26 PM
In article >,
(Teddy) wrote:

> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> Thanks

Like others said, this is almost certainly a tapeworm. I think they get
it from eating an infected animal, or maybe a flea gives it to them.

I used to have tapeworms when I'd let my pets outdoors. (I don't let
them out anymore because I don't live in the boonies now.) If money is
the concern, you could probably take a stool sample to your vet to be
sure, without taking the cat. That would be cheaper.

But I'd dose everyone. I don't think they catch it from one another, but
they're in the same environment so everyone probably has worms. You also
need to get the stool tested because if they've got tapeworms, they
might have other worms.

I just can't remember how they catch it. If it's animals they eat, you
can't stop the outdoor cats from eating mice, etc. But if it's from
fleas, you need to start flea control.

I may give Phil a fit with this one, but growing up, we used Sevin
powder and it was more effective for flea control than anything. The vet
said it was so safe you could sprinkle it on your cereal. (But this was
the 70s, and it was a rural vet...god only knows how true that was) We
actually put the powder on them and rubbed it into their coats, and then
sprinkled it in the yard.

*If* Sevin isn't toxic, it's good to sprinkle out in the yard to kill
fleas. And then good flea collars or maybe that new thing you put on
their neck. I don't know anything about it (other than it's kind of
expensive), just have seen ads on TV.

Amazing what keeping cats indoors will do. No fleas, no worms.

--
Email (remove annoying hyphens)
j-u-l-i-AT-e-c-t-DOT-o-r-g

Phil P.
November 11th 05, 06:20 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit (praziquantel)
pill
> > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer. Cats
can
> > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former is
> > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored.
Droncit
> > kills them both with one dose.
>
>
> I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit (it
> was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
> even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily infested,
> they're only doing one dose.


1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably gave him
1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats 5-11 lbs.


>
> Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
> but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.


That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.


>
> Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
> kittens?

Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be Albon-
but its not for tapeworms.


> And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?

Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains praziquantel
+ pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.

Phil

November 11th 05, 06:29 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Phil P. wrote:
> > > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit (praziquantel)
> pill
> > > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer. Cats
> can
> > > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former is
> > > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored.
> Droncit
> > > kills them both with one dose.
> >
> >
> > I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit (it
> > was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
> > even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily infested,
> > they're only doing one dose.
>
>
> 1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably gave him
> 1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats 5-11 lbs.
>
>
> >
> > Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
> > but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.
>
>
> That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.
>
>
> >
> > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
> > kittens?
>
> Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be Albon-
> but its not for tapeworms.
>
>
> > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
>
> Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains praziquantel
> + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
>
> Phil

OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
and never ask again. :-)

I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms? What about
roundworms?
I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.
Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
eliminate all types of worms, or not? Or IS there such a product?
We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
typie of worm?
Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL

Sherry

Wendy
November 11th 05, 06:45 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> OTC is what I try to use as I've spent a fortune taking cats to the vet.
> I didn't intend to have this many cats but...... Anyway, I plan on not
> replacing these as they 'leave'. Thank you for your help.
>

I haven't had my vet ask for a fecal or an appointment if I could produce
the worm or segments from it. The worms don't always show up in a fecal
anyway. I had a dispute with my vet for weeks telling him my cat had a tape
worm and him saying nothing was showing up in the fecal. She finally barfed
up a whole worm which I gleefully took up to the vets office and made them
look at it. They didn't argue with me after that when I asked for meds for a
tape worm.

W

William Hamblen
November 11th 05, 08:46 PM
On 2005-11-11, Teddy > wrote:

> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.

Possibly tapeworms or roundworms. Usually if one animal in a household
has parasites, they all do. It is time to take the animals to the vet
for a fecal exam and de-worming. You may have to do two treatment
sessions. Fortunately, treatment is inexpensive. Parasites sound gross,
but are common and usually do not mean serious trouble unless the cat is
in poor health to start with.

--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

Jim Vecchiola
November 12th 05, 01:54 AM
Those are sections of a tapeworm - see your vet about some quick oral
medicine to "flush" the whole worm out. Scamp is OK, but needs treatment
sooner than later.

KR2T

Teddy wrote:
>
> One of my cats has started leaving what looks like white rice on a chair
> that only he uses. Can you tell me what this is and more importantly
> what I should do. Scamp is one of 5 indoor/outdoor cats and I have 2
> others that are indoor only so I don't want this to spread to the rest.
> Thanks

Kalyahna
November 12th 05, 05:37 AM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> > > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
> > > kittens?
> >
> > Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be
Albon-
> > but its not for tapeworms.

We use strongid (pyrantel) for kittens up to 8 weeks. Phil - do you know
offhand
what's in Revolution that acts as a dewormer?

> > > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
> >
> > Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains
praziquantel
> > + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
> >
> > Phil
>
> OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
> and never ask again. :-)
>
> I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
> contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms? What about
> roundworms?

I'm pretty sure Droncit is purely tapeworms.

> I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
> Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.

We use Panacur for suspected lungworms. It tastes like soap. :(

> Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
> eliminate all types of worms, or not? Or IS there such a product?
> We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
> sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
> does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
> type of worm?

Not just worms, but giardia, coccidia, etc. But no, I don't think there's a
total dewormer out there. The labeling for Droncit just lists tapeworms.

> Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL

Some of us live in a state of confusion, thankyouverymuch. :)

Teddy
November 12th 05, 12:43 PM
Well, I got the $15.80 single pill and soon after he threw up what
looked like 2 days worth of food. I couldn't bring myself to dig thru
the mess to see if the pill was intact. I expect it dissolved. So I
guess I get to drive back to the vets and buy another overpriced pill.
Any suggestions on how to get him to 'hold it down'?

Teddy
November 12th 05, 12:48 PM
The pill was Cestex 50 mg for an 11 lb. cat.

Phil P.
November 12th 05, 01:50 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >
> > > Phil P. wrote:
> > > > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit
(praziquantel)
> > pill
> > > > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer.
Cats
> > can
> > > > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former
is
> > > > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored.
> > Droncit
> > > > kills them both with one dose.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit (it
> > > was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
> > > even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily
infested,
> > > they're only doing one dose.
> >
> >
> > 1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably gave
him
> > 1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats 5-11
lbs.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
> > > but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.
> >
> >
> > That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> > > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
> > > kittens?
> >
> > Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be
Albon-
> > but its not for tapeworms.
> >
> >
> > > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
> >
> > Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains
praziquantel
> > + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
> >
> > Phil
>
> OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
> and never ask again. :-)
>
> I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
> contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms?

No.


What about
> roundworms?

No. You need Drontal with Pyrantel pamoate to kill roundwoms and hookworms.


> I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
> Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.


Panacur does kill *one* of the tapeworms cats get- only the one they get
from predation of rodents (Taenia pisiformis), but it doesn't kill the
tapeworm cats get from fleas (Dipylidium)- which is the most common
tapeworm. Panacur kills roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, flukes, and
sometimes giardia- although flagyl works better against giardia. I don't
particularly like to use flagyl because it can surpress CMI. Panacur is a
pretty broad-spectrum wormer but it doesn't work very well against coccidia,
either. You'd want albon for coccidia.


> Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
> eliminate all types of worms, or not?

NO! Goddammit! Now don't ask me again. ;-)) DronTAL kills tapeworms,
hookworms, and roundworms (ascarids)- but Panacur works better against
hookworms, and roundworms (and whipworms- which are very rare in cats).


> Or IS there such a product?


Revolution is supposed to be- but I don't think so. Your best choice would
be
Panacur since it kills the most important and dangerous worms (hookworms,
roundworms and whipworms), and the tapeworm cats get from predation of
rodents. It doesn't kill Dipylidium- the flea-vectored tapeworm.



> We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
> sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
> does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
> typie of worm?


Yes, Sherry.;-) There is no silver bullet. The best way to choose a wormer
is
by identifying the worm.



> Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL


Yup. But that's not very hard to do after the night I had. LOL!


Phil

Phil P.
November 12th 05, 01:52 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> The pill was Cestex 50 mg for an 11 lb. cat.

The dose was *way* too high! Should have been 2.75 mg/kg or 13.75 mg for
your cat. He gave your cat the Cestex pill for dogs- that's why your cat's
vomiting was so violent.

That's epsiprantel- its not nearly as effective as Droncit against
tapeworms. Cats don't absorb Cestex very well- most of it is eliminated in
the feces. We stopped using Cestex years ago because of its poor efficacy
and higher incidence of adverse effects (vomiting and/or diarrhea).

If you go back to the same vet, ask him to give your cat *1*, 23 mg Droncit
pill. Shouldn't cost you more than $4.00- Since he screwed up, he should
give you the pill for free.

Best of luck,

Phil

November 12th 05, 04:01 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Phil P. wrote:
> > > > wrote in message
> > > ups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Phil P. wrote:
> > > > > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit
> (praziquantel)
> > > pill
> > > > > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer.
> Cats
> > > can
> > > > > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former
> is
> > > > > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored.
> > > Droncit
> > > > > kills them both with one dose.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit (it
> > > > was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
> > > > even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily
> infested,
> > > > they're only doing one dose.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably gave
> him
> > > 1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats 5-11
> lbs.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
> > > > but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> > > > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use on
> > > > kittens?
> > >
> > > Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be
> Albon-
> > > but its not for tapeworms.
> > >
> > >
> > > > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
> > >
> > > Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains
> praziquantel
> > > + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
> > >
> > > Phil
> >
> > OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
> > and never ask again. :-)
> >
> > I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
> > contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms?
>
> No.
>
>
> What about
> > roundworms?
>
> No. You need Drontal with Pyrantel pamoate to kill roundwoms and hookworms.
>
>
> > I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
> > Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.
>
>
> Panacur does kill *one* of the tapeworms cats get- only the one they get
> from predation of rodents (Taenia pisiformis), but it doesn't kill the
> tapeworm cats get from fleas (Dipylidium)- which is the most common
> tapeworm. Panacur kills roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, flukes, and
> sometimes giardia- although flagyl works better against giardia. I don't
> particularly like to use flagyl because it can surpress CMI. Panacur is a
> pretty broad-spectrum wormer but it doesn't work very well against coccidia,
> either. You'd want albon for coccidia.
>
>
> > Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
> > eliminate all types of worms, or not?
>
> NO! Goddammit! Now don't ask me again. ;-)) DronTAL kills tapeworms,
> hookworms, and roundworms (ascarids)- but Panacur works better against
> hookworms, and roundworms (and whipworms- which are very rare in cats).
>
>
> > Or IS there such a product?
>
>
> Revolution is supposed to be- but I don't think so. Your best choice would
> be
> Panacur since it kills the most important and dangerous worms (hookworms,
> roundworms and whipworms), and the tapeworm cats get from predation of
> rodents. It doesn't kill Dipylidium- the flea-vectored tapeworm.
>
>
>
> > We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
> > sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
> > does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
> > typie of worm?
>
>
> Yes, Sherry.;-) There is no silver bullet. The best way to choose a wormer
> is
> by identifying the worm.
>
>
>
> > Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL
>
>
> Yup. But that's not very hard to do after the night I had. LOL!
>
>
> Phil

Thanks much. Response duly printed and filed away.
But ya know, this is good info to keep or share. I can't be the only
person in the universe so addled about this. I see people asking all
the time about those OTC wormers. AFter reading this post, the idea of
going to a farm/ranch supply store (which honestly, that's what a lot
of people that come in the shelter think is the right thing to do) and
buying a "magic bullet" OTC sounds like even more of a joke.


Sherry

Phil P.
November 12th 05, 04:22 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >
> > > Phil P. wrote:
> > > > > wrote in message
> > > > ups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil P. wrote:
> > > > > > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit
> > (praziquantel)
> > > > pill
> > > > > > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC
wormer.
> > Cats
> > > > can
> > > > > > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The
former
> > is
> > > > > > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is
flea-vectored.
> > > > Droncit
> > > > > > kills them both with one dose.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit
(it
> > > > > was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later.
Now,
> > > > > even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily
> > infested,
> > > > > they're only doing one dose.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably
gave
> > him
> > > > 1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats
5-11
> > lbs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC
costs,
> > > > > but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
> > > > > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets
use on
> > > > > kittens?
> > > >
> > > > Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be
> > Albon-
> > > > but its not for tapeworms.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
> > > >
> > > > Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains
> > praziquantel
> > > > + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > >
> > > OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
> > > and never ask again. :-)
> > >
> > > I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
> > > contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms?
> >
> > No.
> >
> >
> > What about
> > > roundworms?
> >
> > No. You need Drontal with Pyrantel pamoate to kill roundwoms and
hookworms.
> >
> >
> > > I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
> > > Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.
> >
> >
> > Panacur does kill *one* of the tapeworms cats get- only the one they get
> > from predation of rodents (Taenia pisiformis), but it doesn't kill the
> > tapeworm cats get from fleas (Dipylidium)- which is the most common
> > tapeworm. Panacur kills roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, flukes, and
> > sometimes giardia- although flagyl works better against giardia. I
don't
> > particularly like to use flagyl because it can surpress CMI. Panacur is
a
> > pretty broad-spectrum wormer but it doesn't work very well against
coccidia,
> > either. You'd want albon for coccidia.
> >
> >
> > > Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
> > > eliminate all types of worms, or not?
> >
> > NO! Goddammit! Now don't ask me again. ;-)) DronTAL kills tapeworms,
> > hookworms, and roundworms (ascarids)- but Panacur works better against
> > hookworms, and roundworms (and whipworms- which are very rare in cats).
> >
> >
> > > Or IS there such a product?
> >
> >
> > Revolution is supposed to be- but I don't think so. Your best choice
would
> > be
> > Panacur since it kills the most important and dangerous worms
(hookworms,
> > roundworms and whipworms), and the tapeworm cats get from predation of
> > rodents. It doesn't kill Dipylidium- the flea-vectored tapeworm.
> >
> >
> >
> > > We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
> > > sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
> > > does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
> > > typie of worm?
> >
> >
> > Yes, Sherry.;-) There is no silver bullet. The best way to choose a
wormer
> > is
> > by identifying the worm.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL
> >
> >
> > Yup. But that's not very hard to do after the night I had. LOL!
> >
> >
> > Phil
>
> Thanks much. Response duly printed and filed away.
> But ya know, this is good info to keep or share. I can't be the only
> person in the universe so addled about this. I see people asking all
> the time about those OTC wormers. AFter reading this post, the idea of
> going to a farm/ranch supply store (which honestly, that's what a lot
> of people that come in the shelter think is the right thing to do) and
> buying a "magic bullet" OTC sounds like even more of a joke.

It does get confusing- because there is no one size fits all wormers.

Most of the OTC meds are older drugs that were developed years ago and are
much more toxic than the new drugs. Rather than take them off the market,
the original drug companies either sell or lease the formulas to other
companies who sell the drugs OTC- its like free money. Take Hartz- most of
their crap is ancient and has killed or sickened many pets.

For a first-line wormer, you can't go wrong with Panacur or Drontal. Between
Panacur/Drontal and Albon, you should be pretty much covered for the most of
the bugs.

Phil

Teddy
November 13th 05, 11:50 AM
Thanks Phil, for your help. Are you a vet? You sound like one. About
the cat, Scamp- no more 'rice' since he threw up his toenails. ???? I
thought the worm/s would be in his intestines so would not be affected
by vomiting.

Phil P.
November 13th 05, 01:06 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Phil, for your help. Are you a vet?

No, I just work with cats- shelter and feral.


You sound like one. About
> the cat, Scamp- no more 'rice' since he threw up his toenails. ????

That's good news.


I
> thought the worm/s would be in his intestines so would not be affected
> by vomiting.

The excessive dose of Cestex made your cat vomit, not the worms.

Best of luck,

Phil

Wendy
November 14th 05, 12:19 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Phil P. wrote:
>> > > wrote in message
>> > ups.com...
>> > >
>> > > Phil P. wrote:
>> > > > If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit
> (praziquantel)
>> > pill
>> > > > which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer.
> Cats
>> > can
>> > > > acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former
> is
>> > > > acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored.
>> > Droncit
>> > > > kills them both with one dose.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I would swear that a few years ago the vet dosed 1 and 1/2 Droncit
>> > > (it
>> > > was a big cat) initially, then the same dose three weeks later. Now,
>> > > even with the shelter cats whom you know are probably heavily
> infested,
>> > > they're only doing one dose.
>> >
>> >
>> > 1 1/2 pills (34.5 mg) treats cats over 11 lbs.- The vet probably gave
> him
>> > 1/1/2 pills because he's a big cat. One pill (23 mg) treats cats 5-11
> lbs.
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Droncit *is* probably cheaper than OTC. I don't know what OTC costs,
>> > > but the vet sells Droncit at $4 a tablet.
>> >
>> >
>> > That's about right. I pay about $175 for a bottle of 50.
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Here's what I don't get. Doesn't Droncit kill tapes, roundworms,
>> > > hookworms, everything? Then what's that liquid wormer that vets use
>> > > on
>> > > kittens?
>> >
>> > Not sure which one you're referring to- oral or injection. Could be
> Albon-
>> > but its not for tapeworms.
>> >
>> >
>> > > And what's the difference between Droncit and Drontal?
>> >
>> > Droncit contails praziquantel- for tapeworms. Drontal contains
> praziquantel
>> > + pyrantel pamoate- for tapeworms, hookworms, and ascarids.
>> >
>> > Phil
>>
>> OK, let me get this straight, and I swear I will print it out, keep it
>> and never ask again. :-)
>>
>> I thought Droncit eliminated about every kind of worm. If it does not
>> contain pyrantel pamoate, does it still kill hookworms?
>
> No.
>
>
> What about
>> roundworms?
>
> No. You need Drontal with Pyrantel pamoate to kill roundwoms and
> hookworms.
>
>
>> I remembered the name of the liquid stuff I was talking about. It's
>> Panacur. I thought it killed all kinds of worms *except* tapes.
>
>
> Panacur does kill *one* of the tapeworms cats get- only the one they get
> from predation of rodents (Taenia pisiformis), but it doesn't kill the
> tapeworm cats get from fleas (Dipylidium)- which is the most common
> tapeworm. Panacur kills roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, flukes, and
> sometimes giardia- although flagyl works better against giardia. I don't
> particularly like to use flagyl because it can surpress CMI. Panacur is a
> pretty broad-spectrum wormer but it doesn't work very well against
> coccidia,
> either. You'd want albon for coccidia.
>
>
>> Here's what I don't get. Is Droncit the all-around wormer that will
>> eliminate all types of worms, or not?
>
> NO! Goddammit! Now don't ask me again. ;-)) DronTAL kills tapeworms,
> hookworms, and roundworms (ascarids)- but Panacur works better against
> hookworms, and roundworms (and whipworms- which are very rare in cats).
>
>
>> Or IS there such a product?
>
>
> Revolution is supposed to be- but I don't think so. Your best choice
> would
> be
> Panacur since it kills the most important and dangerous worms (hookworms,
> roundworms and whipworms), and the tapeworm cats get from predation of
> rodents. It doesn't kill Dipylidium- the flea-vectored tapeworm.
>
>

Revolution doesn't claim to kill tapeworm only roundworm and hookworm.


>
>> We don't have to take the cat to the vet, but have to take a stool
>> sample. Is that why? Because there *isn't* an all-around wormer that
>> does it all, and they need to *choose* which treatment based on the
>> typie of worm?
>
>
> Yes, Sherry.;-) There is no silver bullet. The best way to choose a
> wormer
> is
> by identifying the worm.
>
>
>
>> Am I thoroughly confusing you yet? LOL
>
>
> Yup. But that's not very hard to do after the night I had. LOL!
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>

Teddy
November 14th 05, 06:42 PM
I called the vets office today. They claimed the Cestex was proper and
what they give cats all the time based on a chart on the wall that
prescribes according to the weight of the cat. The only other med they
have for this is Pyrontel 1 1/2 cc liquid. When I told her he had thrown
everything up and asked what I should do next she had no clue!

Wendy
November 14th 05, 07:33 PM
Sounds like you need a new vet


"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
>I called the vets office today. They claimed the Cestex was proper and
> what they give cats all the time based on a chart on the wall that
> prescribes according to the weight of the cat. The only other med they
> have for this is Pyrontel 1 1/2 cc liquid. When I told her he had thrown
> everything up and asked what I should do next she had no clue!
>

Phil P.
November 14th 05, 08:42 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> I called the vets office today. They claimed the Cestex was proper and
> what they give cats all the time based on a chart on the wall that
> prescribes according to the weight of the cat.

Maybe they were looking at the chart for dogs (or they're idiots)- because
the dose was clearly wrong. Some vets think cats are just small dogs. The
dose for an 11 lb. (5 kg) cat should be 13.75 mg-- 50 mg is a dose for a 18
kg/40 lb cat!

Here's the dosing instructions per Pfizer:

"Cats: 2.75 mg/kg PO once" (Package insert; Cestex)

"Dogs: 5.5 mg/k-g PO once" (Package insert; Cestex)


The only other med they
> have for this is Pyrontel 1 1/2 cc liquid. When I told her he had thrown
> everything up and asked what I should do next she had no clue!

Dump the vet. If she can't handle a simple case of tapeworms- I wouldn't
trust her to treat *anything*.

Consider yourself very lucky - you got an early warning sign of her
incompetence in a relatively mild problem. The results could have been much
worse if this had been a serious or life-threatening situation.

Best of luck,

Phil.

Phil P.
November 14th 05, 08:44 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...

> Revolution doesn't claim to kill tapeworm only roundworm and hookworm.

....and fleas, and ear mites, and heartworms.

Teddy
November 15th 05, 03:26 AM
I agree. I already went to the other vets place and got Drontal 1.5
tablets for $9.66. She had told me over the phone $4.40 for one tablet.
(?) This is the vets office I left years ago because the vet wouldn't
believe my cat was sick when she was dripping blood and staying in my
lap all day. Yes, the cat had an infected and greatly enlarged uterus. I
changed to the vet who is now prescribing Cestex. Aaggggg!

Phil P.
November 15th 05, 08:34 PM
"Teddy" > wrote in message
...
> I agree. I already went to the other vets place and got Drontal 1.5
> tablets for $9.66. She had told me over the phone $4.40 for one tablet.


That's about the right price from a vet. My shelter price breaks down to
about $3-3.50. She charged you for two pills- and marked it by only about
25%. You didn't get ripped off.



> (?) This is the vets office I left years ago because the vet wouldn't
> believe my cat was sick when she was dripping blood and staying in my
> lap all day. Yes, the cat had an infected and greatly enlarged uterus. I
> changed to the vet who is now prescribing Cestex. Aaggggg!


Oh geez... Dumb and Dumber. This vet seems like the lesser of the two
evils. Vaginal discharges are classic symptoms of pyometra. Its a good thing
you got a second opinion otherwise your cat would have died from sepsis or
septic shock. Between the both of them they make 1 mediocre vet.

I'm almost afraid to ask if there are any other vets in your area. If not,
I'd seriously consider moving! ;-)

Best of luck,

Phil

No More Retail
November 15th 05, 08:37 PM
I can never understand why both vet and doctors can't admit they don't know
what it is or they can't handle the situation. Personally I would respect
anyone that says I am sorry I can't do this let me refer you to who can.
Must be that word greed

Phil P.
November 15th 05, 08:45 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> I can never understand why both vet and doctors can't admit they don't
know
> what it is or they can't handle the situation. Personally I would respect
> anyone that says I am sorry I can't do this let me refer you to who can.
> Must be that word greed

Partly- and partly ego. Some vets won't refer a client because feel they'll
lose the client to the other vet.

A vet that never says "I don't know, lets get another opinion" scares the
hell out me!

Phil

No More Retail
November 15th 05, 08:50 PM
By the way the shelter manager said thank you for the extra advice on the
quarantine. We are going to open one of the other buildings up to house
most of them about 150 - 200 as soon as the professional cleaning crew ( haz
mat certified ) cleans it up and prepares it should be this week. Than the
fun begins

whitershadeofpale
November 15th 05, 10:00 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Teddy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > OTC is what I try to use as I've spent a fortune taking cats to the vet.
> > I didn't intend to have this many cats but...... Anyway, I plan on not
> > replacing these as they 'leave'. Thank you for your help.
>
> OTC wormers are older drugs that were developed years ago and can be very
> toxic and irritating to your cat and should be avoided at all costs. Many
> deaths in cats have been reported from the use of OTC medications.
>
> If your cat has tapeworms, he needs only *one* Droncit (praziquantel) pill
> which is *cheaper*, safer, and more effective than any OTC wormer. Cats can
> acquire two types of tapeworms (Taenia and Dipylidium). The former is
> acquired from predation of rodents and the latter is flea-vectored. Droncit
> kills them both with one dose.
>
> Forget the OTC.

you talking about general dewormers or the 2 pill package from pet
store that is just for tapeworms?

Phil P.
November 16th 05, 12:20 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> By the way the shelter manager said thank you for the extra advice on
the
> quarantine. We are going to open one of the other buildings up to house
> most of them about 150 - 200 as soon as the professional cleaning crew (
haz
> mat certified ) cleans it up and prepares it should be this week. Than
the
> fun begins

You know what, instead of ordering Virkon S, order Trifectant- its exactly
the same product- just a different name and made by the same company- its
just labeled differently for shelters and small animal clinics and comes
with more instructions than Virkon S- you might it more helpful. Its the
same dilution and costs the
same. As Trifectant, you can buy individual 1.3 oz packets (makes 1
gal) if you want to try it before buying a 10 lb. tub. I use Virkon S only
because I can buy it locally.

A separate building for quarantine is a *fabulous* idea and will make it a
lot
easier to prevent epidemics and even catch asymptomatic carriers- especially
cats with herpesvirus and calicivirus. Quarantining
new cats in a separate building will dramatically reduce the risks of
endangering the entire population.

Excellent plan.

Phil

No More Retail
November 16th 05, 12:28 AM
We already have a small quarantine area about 40 cats or 25 dogs it is a haz
mat approved level 3 in other words top of the line for civil use the same
one hospitals use to prevent infectious bio agents from spreading. We keep
the animals in there till the vaccinations and all the test are determined.
The old building does not have separate air flow but it is not connected to
the main buildings like the main area.
It is neat the person who put it all together is ex military and set it up
like a N.B.C. center he is setting the older building up but it will be
several weeks before he is done. The shelter manager thought it would be
a good idea just to have the quarantine house way away from the other
buildings instead of having to go thru all the extra time we have to do
while in the main building every time we go in and out. Easier to assign
staff out there and they can do everything with out leaving. Plus will save
money for the shelter
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "No More Retail" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> By the way the shelter manager said thank you for the extra advice on
> the
>> quarantine. We are going to open one of the other buildings up to house
>> most of them about 150 - 200 as soon as the professional cleaning crew (
> haz
>> mat certified ) cleans it up and prepares it should be this week. Than
> the
>> fun begins
>
> You know what, instead of ordering Virkon S, order Trifectant- its exactly
> the same product- just a different name and made by the same company- its
> just labeled differently for shelters and small animal clinics and comes
> with more instructions than Virkon S- you might it more helpful. Its the
> same dilution and costs the
> same. As Trifectant, you can buy individual 1.3 oz packets (makes 1
> gal) if you want to try it before buying a 10 lb. tub. I use Virkon S
> only
> because I can buy it locally.
>
> A separate building for quarantine is a *fabulous* idea and will make it a
> lot
> easier to prevent epidemics and even catch asymptomatic carriers-
> especially
> cats with herpesvirus and calicivirus. Quarantining
> new cats in a separate building will dramatically reduce the risks of
> endangering the entire population.
>
> Excellent plan.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>

Teddy
November 16th 05, 12:38 AM
I was talking about what you can get from grocery and pet stores. I
usually buy from the vet and then see cheaper prices at the store. But I
had no idea they weren't safe

whitershadeofpale
November 16th 05, 12:51 AM
Teddy wrote:
> I was talking about what you can get from grocery and pet stores. I
> usually buy from the vet and then see cheaper prices at the store. But I
> had no idea they weren't safe

I see...

Well, when my cat had them, it appeared to work just fine.

I DO believe what Phil is saying, about OTC meds.

It does not suprise me at all!

Phil P.
November 16th 05, 11:31 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> We already have a small quarantine area about 40 cats or 25 dogs it is a
haz
> mat approved level 3 in other words top of the line for civil use the
same
> one hospitals use to prevent infectious bio agents from spreading. We
keep
> the animals in there till the vaccinations and all the test are
determined.
> The old building does not have separate air flow but it is not connected
to
> the main buildings like the main area.
> It is neat the person who put it all together is ex military and set it
up
> like a N.B.C. center he is setting the older building up but it will be
> several weeks before he is done. The shelter manager thought it would
be
> a good idea just to have the quarantine house way away from the other
> buildings instead of having to go thru all the extra time we have to do
> while in the main building every time we go in and out. Easier to assign
> staff out there and they can do everything with out leaving. Plus will
save
> money for the shelter

That's all good news, but quarantine is only part of the solution. A good
disinfection regimen is an absolute must. Diseases are spread in shelters
much more often by fomite transmission than by cat-to-cat
transmission-- especially parvovirus.

Phil P.
November 16th 05, 11:35 PM
"Diane" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
> > A vet that never says "I don't know, lets get another opinion" scares
the
> > hell out me!
>
> When Pudge had CRF, the veterinarian treating her had one of the other
> veterinarians in the practice look at her because she said the other
> veterinarian had had additional cardiovascular training, esp. blood
> pressure. Granted, this was within the same practice, but I thought it
> was reassuring that she wanted someone more knowledgeable about high
> blood pressure to take a look, too.

That's a sign of a good vet. She places the cat's welfare above her ego and
finances.

Phil P.
November 17th 05, 01:58 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> We already have a small quarantine area about 40 cats or 25 dogs it is a
haz
> mat approved level 3 in other words top of the line for civil use the
same
> one hospitals use to prevent infectious bio agents from spreading. We
keep
> the animals in there till the vaccinations and all the test are
determined.
> The old building does not have separate air flow but it is not connected
to
> the main buildings like the main area.
> It is neat the person who put it all together is ex military and set it
up
> like a N.B.C. center he is setting the older building up but it will be
> several weeks before he is done. The shelter manager thought it would
be
> a good idea just to have the quarantine house way away from the other
> buildings instead of having to go thru all the extra time we have to do
> while in the main building every time we go in and out. Easier to assign
> staff out there and they can do everything with out leaving. Plus will
save
> money for the shelter

That's all good news, but quarantine is only part of the solution. A good
disinfection regimen is an absolute must. Diseases are spread in shelters
much more often by fomite (animate + inanimate) transmission than by
cat-to-cat transmission-- especially parvovirus.

Has anyone in your shelter taken the AHA Shelter Operations seminar? If you
plan to become heavily involved with the shelter, you might want to look
into it. The seminars rotate around the country including FLA. Its a 2-day
seminar that covers most areas of shelter ops including preventing disease
transmission, disinfectants, and how to properly sanitize cages and
communal areas and many other facets of shelter ops.

No More Retail
November 17th 05, 02:17 AM
Taken already everyone gets to go everytime it is local here. In Orlando
we have a major convention center area it comes there at least 3 times a
year with the pet shows and seminars. All new shelter works get to go to it
our treat. In Orlando the have classes at the ASPCA center and HSUS center
that volunteers can get certified at for a number of things. The cat
protection shelter pays for it all. That is where I was trained as a DART
member along with other certifications
And Phil I have been heavily involved in the shelters for 20 years :-). I
don't let on to much about this but I sponsor a shelter as in I am the
financial backer. The shelter manager I talk about to you donated the
property and buildings and runs the day to day operations. I work there (
no pay taken ), I volunteer at the local county shelters and they have total
different systems set up.
I ask to get opinions from everyone when I encounter something new to me.
I only ask questions that I can't find a good answer to, not had any
experience with or just want some good advice. I didn't mean to come off
like I was a newbie ;-) Sometimes I like to shoot from the hip and the vets
can't answer it or don't have time to do it. Sometimes I want to know what
is going on but can't get any info like when I asked about the angel
trumpet. Plus with my schedule the only down time I really get during the
day is to do paper work and post here. I ask your advice for the simple
reason you tell it like me how it is. And I respect that to many others
like to bite heads off and shove their I am the only correct answer there is
down people throats. You hav't done that so far to me ;-)

No More Retail
November 17th 05, 03:35 AM
I should have added I have got more involved in the medical workings of the
shelter since my training to become a DART member. Ever since The disasters
last year in Florida and the disasters this year in Florida and New Orleans
more questions and problems than I thought possible have been coming up old
age also sometime Brain farts

Phil P.
November 17th 05, 04:47 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> Taken already everyone gets to go everytime it is local here. In Orlando
> we have a major convention center area it comes there at least 3 times a
> year with the pet shows and seminars. All new shelter works get to go to
it
> our treat.

That's great! You'd be amazed by the number of people running or working in
shelters that have absolutely no training whatsoever. The love of animals
and their welfare counts for a lot- but its not enough. That's why some
people with hearts as big as the sky run into serious problems.


.. I ask your advice for the simple
> reason you tell it like me how it is. And I respect that to many others
> like to bite heads off and shove their I am the only correct answer there
is
> down people throats. You hav't done that so far to me ;-)

I probably will, sooner or later :-) I feel very strongly about certain
issues.

Phil P.
November 17th 05, 04:48 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> I should have added I have got more involved in the medical workings of
the
> shelter since my training to become a DART member. Ever since The
disasters
> last year in Florida and the disasters this year in Florida and New
Orleans
> more questions and problems than I thought possible have been coming up
old
> age also sometime Brain farts


Shelter/rescue work sure is interesting- to say the least. You'll come
across
diseases that most local vets never even heard of or have to look up because
they've never had a case. I've had a few vets call *me* to ask me if I've
ever had a case of a certain disease and how we treated it. LOL!

No More Retail
November 17th 05, 04:53 AM
You saw I just had to ask you about angel trumpet No information except
how to treat humans no after this incident it has been added what to do

No More Retail
November 17th 05, 04:54 AM
Same goes here but that is what makes life interesting