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No More Retail
November 13th 05, 11:21 AM
Phil you asked to let you know how our plant eater of angel trumpet. Well
the toxicology did come back bad news the cat did ingest the plant good
news been seizure free since the last post and off of IV new blood work
shows normal levels on everything

Phil P.
November 13th 05, 01:05 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> Phil you asked to let you know how our plant eater of angel trumpet. Well
> the toxicology did come back bad news the cat did ingest the plant good
> news been seizure free since the last post and off of IV new blood work
> shows normal levels on everything

That's great news! Thanks for the update.

cybercat
November 13th 05, 04:46 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> Phil you asked to let you know how our plant eater of angel trumpet. Well
> the toxicology did come back bad news the cat did ingest the plant good
> news been seizure free since the last post and off of IV new blood work
> shows normal levels on everything
>
>
Yay for kitty!

No More Retail
November 13th 05, 07:54 PM
Even better news this morning the person who brought him is going to adopt
him. The lady is going thru our background check and once the cat goes thru
quarantine and gets fixed with shots she is going to take Mr.kitty home

cybercat
November 13th 05, 08:26 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
.. .
> Even better news this morning the person who brought him is going to adopt
> him. The lady is going thru our background check and once the cat goes
thru
> quarantine and gets fixed with shots she is going to take Mr.kitty home
>
>
Wonderful!! NMR, what do you think about ear tipping, you are someone who
participates in rescue programs.

No More Retail
November 13th 05, 09:47 PM
Personally I wish there was another way instead of clipping the cats
ear. I don't like it but I understand why it is done. I see cats come in
alot with their ears clipped. No tattoos or microchips to identify where
they are from. There are a few feral colonies around here that the
caretakers use tattoos and chips. They get returned and animal control gets
an ass chewing by the aspca rep.
But ear tipped or not animal control still traps them and takes them to
the shelter usually a kill shelter. Ear tipped is supposed to mean a
neutered cat that is being cared for. Animal control in our area does not
care they pick up the animals and take them to the shelter. I am so glad we
work with the surrounding counties to safe older cats. We have rehabilited
many of a feral cat to happy and loving homes.

With all our technology we can put gps tracking in our smaller than pocket
size phones but no one has made; to my knowledge, a chip to track animals at
a distance. It would be a great tool you cats gets out log on to the
computer and find out where his happy butt is. You would be able to track
your colonies movement

On another note if this is acceptable practice to do on animals why can't
we do this to criminals if it is good enough to do to a cat why not a child
molester. ;-)

I read in the other flaming post which I will not get involved in. You all
brought out both sides and the trolls. And I am not going to get into an
argument too many I am right no matter what are involved on both sides.
Even though as some one pointed out it is an apple and orange argument a no
win situation.

I was watching on the discovery channel. They were using a glow in the dark
marking or glow while using a night scope on the big cats ears to make their
night movements easier to track at a distance. I wonder how much this would
cost and how effective it would be. The dye is supposed to be permanent
would make it easier for the night trappers.

Now I am not a trained TNR personnel they only experience I have beside
being a DART member and my hurricane experiences; about catching strays is
using forget me no traps, using a drop net or launched spring net to capture
sick animals. I have sat out in the weather, spent nights and days trying
to catch a sick animals, so I have a little understanding of what the
trappers go thru. The ear cropping has it good point and bad points but
this is one of the damn questions that I hate.
Will it help them live healthier and longer in the long run. That I will
leave up to you folks

CatNipped
November 13th 05, 09:57 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> Personally I wish there was another way instead of clipping the cats
> ear. I don't like it but I understand why it is done. I see cats come in
> alot with their ears clipped. No tattoos or microchips to identify where
> they are from. There are a few feral colonies around here that the
> caretakers use tattoos and chips. They get returned and animal control
gets
> an ass chewing by the aspca rep.
> But ear tipped or not animal control still traps them and takes them
to
> the shelter usually a kill shelter. Ear tipped is supposed to mean a
> neutered cat that is being cared for. Animal control in our area does not
> care they pick up the animals and take them to the shelter. I am so glad
we
> work with the surrounding counties to safe older cats. We have
rehabilited
> many of a feral cat to happy and loving homes.
>
> With all our technology we can put gps tracking in our smaller than
pocket
> size phones but no one has made; to my knowledge, a chip to track animals
at
> a distance. It would be a great tool you cats gets out log on to the
> computer and find out where his happy butt is. You would be able to
track
> your colonies movement
>
> On another note if this is acceptable practice to do on animals why
can't
> we do this to criminals if it is good enough to do to a cat why not a
child
> molester. ;-)
>
> I read in the other flaming post which I will not get involved in. You
all
> brought out both sides and the trolls. And I am not going to get into an
> argument too many I am right no matter what are involved on both sides.
> Even though as some one pointed out it is an apple and orange argument a
no
> win situation.
>
> I was watching on the discovery channel. They were using a glow in the
dark
> marking or glow while using a night scope on the big cats ears to make
their
> night movements easier to track at a distance. I wonder how much this
would
> cost and how effective it would be. The dye is supposed to be permanent
> would make it easier for the night trappers.
>
> Now I am not a trained TNR personnel they only experience I have beside
> being a DART member and my hurricane experiences; about catching strays is
> using forget me no traps, using a drop net or launched spring net to
capture
> sick animals. I have sat out in the weather, spent nights and days trying
> to catch a sick animals, so I have a little understanding of what the
> trappers go thru. The ear cropping has it good point and bad points but
> this is one of the damn questions that I hate.
> Will it help them live healthier and longer in the long run. That I will
> leave up to you folks

How about a glow-in-the-dark ear stud? I know some would argue that even
piercing is disfiguration (and looking at some of today's human youth, I
might agree! ;>). But it just might start a feral cat fashion trend!

Hugs,

CatNipped

No More Retail
November 13th 05, 10:02 PM
ROFLMAO Thanks catnipped I needed that I could see one of my firballs
having that walking down the hall in the middle of the night one eye open
trying to figure out what the hell is that ;-)

But that is an idea a glow in the dark tag but to many ways for it to rip
off and people would use the same argument

CatNipped
November 13th 05, 10:46 PM
"No More Retail" > wrote in message
...
> ROFLMAO Thanks catnipped I needed that I could see one of my firballs
> having that walking down the hall in the middle of the night one eye open
> trying to figure out what the hell is that ;-)
>
> But that is an idea a glow in the dark tag but to many ways for it to
rip
> off and people would use the same argument

Yeah, I was being facetious. I cringe when I see hoop earrings on kids - I
just know it's going to get hung up on a hair brush or something and rip out
of their ears (you can tell I don't have any piercings - too chicken! ;>).

Hugs,

CatNipped

Candace
November 14th 05, 02:58 AM
CatNipped wrote:

> Yeah, I was being facetious. I cringe when I see hoop earrings on kids - I
> just know it's going to get hung up on a hair brush or something and rip out
> of their ears (you can tell I don't have any piercings - too chicken! ;>).
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped

Ewww, when I was in high school, some guy went up to a girl at a
drinking fountain and pulled on her hoop earring real hard and ripped
her ear lobe! He wasn't even trying to hurt her or anything, just
fooling around. It grossed me out for a long time but I did finally
get my ears pierced when I was in my early 30s. Glad I did it, too,
cuz I love jewelry and that opened up all new places to hang it!

Candace

No More Retail
November 14th 05, 03:10 AM
I hate to say this when I was younger in high school many of years ago I
always loved those idiots that started fight that had hanging earning in the
era of peace and love. It made a perfect thing to grab a hold and make a
man cry

Snittens
November 14th 05, 10:15 AM
"No More Retail" > wrote
>
> I read in the other flaming post which I will not get involved in. You
> all brought out both sides and the trolls. And I am not going to get into
> an argument too many I am right no matter what are involved on both sides.
> Even though as some one pointed out it is an apple and orange argument a
> no win situation.
>

I am not a troll, just someone who lurks primarily and does not have a lot
of time to post. I used to participate much more. No matter what you think
of Lyn, she is not a troll either.

Yes, I wish there was something else we could do besides ear tipping. No, a
tag would not work because of the risk of snagging it. Glow in the dark ink
would only work in the dark. cats are also trapped in the day.
At least in our town, ear tipping can save a cat's life. Our ACO will not
trap a tipped cat. Our shelter cannot take in feral cats, so many times the
ACO has to have the cat euthanized. If the person who reported the cat is
OK with having the cat back, he will call a TNR group for help.

I'm curious what Phil's opinion on this is, since "cybercat" respects his
opinion.

-Kelly

cybercat
November 14th 05, 01:31 PM
"Snittens" > wrote in message
...
>
> "No More Retail" > wrote
> >
> > I read in the other flaming post which I will not get involved in. You
> > all brought out both sides and the trolls. And I am not going to get
into
> > an argument too many I am right no matter what are involved on both
sides.
> > Even though as some one pointed out it is an apple and orange argument a
> > no win situation.
> >
>
> I am not a troll, just someone who lurks primarily and does not have a lot
> of time to post. I used to participate much more. No matter what you
think
> of Lyn, she is not a troll either.

Now, Kelly, everyone knows that a "troll" is just someone you dislike.
Unless
it is someone who honestly is posting only to upset people, and that
certainly
is not the way the word has been used here.

>
> Yes, I wish there was something else we could do besides ear tipping. No,
a
> tag would not work because of the risk of snagging it. Glow in the dark
ink
> would only work in the dark. cats are also trapped in the day.

Two tattoos then. Or one using two kinds of ink. Simple.

> At least in our town, ear tipping can save a cat's life. Our ACO will not
> trap a tipped cat. Our shelter cannot take in feral cats, so many times
the
> ACO has to have the cat euthanized. If the person who reported the cat is
> OK with having the cat back, he will call a TNR group for help.
>
> I'm curious what Phil's opinion on this is, since "cybercat" respects his
> opinion.
>

How nice that you care whose opinion I respect. But of course it is
beside the point of the discussion. If your Animal Control people
will not pick up a cat that has part of its ear cut off, that's great.
I imagine they would leave tatooed cats alone too, and that would
really be great because you could protect the cats without mutilating
them.

Snittens
November 14th 05, 02:35 PM
"cybercat" > wrote
>
> How nice that you care whose opinion I respect. But of course it is
> beside the point of the discussion. If your Animal Control people
> will not pick up a cat that has part of its ear cut off, that's great.
> I imagine they would leave tatooed cats alone too, and that would
> really be great because you could protect the cats without mutilating
> them.
>
>

You can't tell if a cat is tattooed until it is trapped, and many times the
cat has to be knocked down before you can even look at its ear. Have you
ever tried to anesthetize a feral cat? Personally, I haven't as I am not a
vet tech, but I have watched it be done. NOT easy, and people have gotten
hurt, and these are very experienced people. Yes, it has to be done to
spay/neuter them in the first place, but I think it's best that they only go
through that when absolutely necessary. And, do you think all ACO's are
going to bother knocking down ferally cats to check for a tattoo? When I
went to the MSPCA when Antonio was missing, they told me if they get a cat
in and it acts feral, they PTS right away. They do work with the TNR
groups, so I think they don't bother the tipped cats, although I can't swear
on it.
I thought I was going to get seriously hurt once getting a feral cat out of
the AC kennel. We weren't sure how feral this cat was, so I went to get it
and have the vet examine her. She was cowering in the back of the cage, and
so I took the cat carrier and tried to make it so the entrance to the
carrier was the only place she could go. Well, somehow she flew up and
missed my face by an inch. Went past me, flung herself against a window,
and got into a little space under the water heater. The ACO got her out
somehow. This cat would have been PTS, but the person who called about her
had a friend with a barn who agreed to take this cat and her friends (there
were 3-4 more at the location). Another group did the TNR. So, tell me how
I or the ACO was supposed to find a tattoo on this black, very feral cat?
Now that she has been TNR'ed and I assume tipped, she never has to go
through that experience again.

-Kelly

cybercat
November 14th 05, 07:14 PM
"Snittens" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> You can't tell if a cat is tattooed until it is trapped, and many times
the
> cat has to be knocked down before you can even look at its ear. Have you
> ever tried to anesthetize a feral cat? Personally, I haven't as I am not
a
> vet tech, but I have watched it be done. NOT easy, and people have gotten
> hurt, and these are very experienced people. Yes, it has to be done to
> spay/neuter them in the first place, but I think it's best that they only
go
> through that when absolutely necessary. And, do you think all ACO's are
> going to bother knocking down ferally cats to check for a tattoo? When I
> went to the MSPCA when Antonio was missing, they told me if they get a cat
> in and it acts feral, they PTS right away. They do work with the TNR
> groups, so I think they don't bother the tipped cats, although I can't
swear
> on it.

Then this is kind of a moot point, isn't it?

Phil P.
November 14th 05, 08:39 PM
"Snittens" > wrote in message
...
>


> You can't tell if a cat is tattooed until it is trapped,


Not always.



and many times the
> cat has to be knocked down before you can even look at its ear.


Not true. Its hardly necessary to anesthetize or even sedate a feral to
check for a tattoo.


Have you
> ever tried to anesthetize a feral cat?


All the time.


Personally, I haven't as I am not a
> vet tech, but I have watched it be done. NOT easy, and people have gotten
> hurt, and these are very experienced people.


Maybe they're very experience with pet cats- doesn't sound like they're very
experienced with ferals. There's no reason to even touch a feral while
she's conscious if you have the proper inexpensive equipment. If a person
works with ferals regularly, they should be properly equipped- like any
other trade or profession or hobby.

You should not have to touch a feral *at all* from the time you trap her
until she's released, and the vet doesn't have to handle the cat *at all*
while she's conscious. She's sedated in a squeeze cage or restraint module
and anesthetized on the table. After she's neutered, she's placed in
carrier or cage while she's still under to recover and later released from
the carrier or cage. Food can be given in the cage via a small cardboard
chute and water via a syringe and tube or turkey baster into a small bowl-
although
most cats won't eat until they're released. The recovery cage/carrier
should be large enough to slide a small litter box into (bottom half of 3oz
can case) through a slit. There's no reason to touch the cat or remove her
from the recovery cage until she's released.



When I
> went to the MSPCA when Antonio was missing, they told me if they get a cat
> in and it acts feral, they PTS right away.


They have to trap the cat to kill her, don't they? Or do they just shoot
cats on sight? If they have to trap the cat, they can check for a tattoo
without exposing themselves to any risk- if they know what they're doing.

The only advantage of ear-tipping is that its easier to see from a distance
and at night. It doesn't save the cat's life any more than a tattoo. Worst
case scenario for a tattooed cat is she spends *five minutes* in a trap and
is released on the spot.

That sums up my position.

Phil P.
November 14th 05, 08:40 PM
"Snittens" > wrote in message
...

> I'm curious what Phil's opinion on this is, since "cybercat" respects his
> opinion.

I don't like ear-tipping. Tattooing would serve the same purpose without
slicing off a piece of the cat's ear. The only advantage of ear-tipping is
that its easier to see from a distance and a night.

See: "Re: Declawing etc Illegal in Rome".

CatNipped
November 14th 05, 08:52 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...

> You should not have to touch a feral *at all* from the time you trap her
> until she's released, and the vet doesn't have to handle the cat *at all*
> while she's conscious. She's sedated in a squeeze cage or restraint
module
> and anesthetized on the table.

LOL! They have to do this to Bandit when she goes in for a dental!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Snittens
November 14th 05, 10:20 PM
"Phil P." > wrote
>
> Maybe they're very experience with pet cats- doesn't sound like they're
> very
> experienced with ferals. There's no reason to even touch a feral while
> she's conscious if you have the proper inexpensive equipment. If a person
> works with ferals regularly, they should be properly equipped- like any
> other trade or profession or hobby.

When this happens, it is when we do not know if the cat is feral or not.
Granted, we usually deal with non-feral cats at the shelter. What happens,
is that Animal Control traps a cat. He wants to hold on to the cat so we
can assess if we can take it or not before making a decision. This means
the cat has to come out the trap and is put into the AC kennel. So, this
makes everything else more difficult. This is a small town and an
all-volunteer shelter, so everyone is doing the best they can with limited
resources (time, people who know what they are doing, money, etc) I know
when the feral groups do spay/neuter clinics, they knock out the cats in the
trap, making life easier for everyone.


>
> They have to trap the cat to kill her, don't they? Or do they just shoot
> cats on sight? If they have to trap the cat, they can check for a tattoo
> without exposing themselves to any risk- if they know what they're doing.
>

I don't think they do, at least regarding feral/not feral. What the person
told me is that they put the cat in a cage, if it "bounces around like
popcorn", it gets put down. ****, I've seen regular pet cats that do that.

> The only advantage of ear-tipping is that its easier to see from a
> distance
> and at night. It doesn't save the cat's life any more than a tattoo.
> Worst
> case scenario for a tattooed cat is she spends *five minutes* in a trap
> and
> is released on the spot.
>
> That sums up my position.
>

Well, in New Hampshire and Mass, Animal Control is up to every little podunk
town. Some have real ACO's, some have an old retired guy who does it on the
weekends, some don't "do" cats, so there's no consistency. About the only
thing that is consistent is most of them know that a tipped ear means the
cat is a feral that is being cared for. Some of these ACO's cannot be
bothered to look much further than that.
Now, I'm not saying I love tipped ears and I think their great. I do wish
there was a better way. Tattoos have not proven to be it in this area.
Just curious, how do you easily spot a tattoo on a black cat?

-Kelly

Phil P.
November 15th 05, 08:28 PM
"Snittens" > wrote in message
. ..

> Just curious, how do you easily spot a tattoo on a black cat?

White ink.