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Wendy
December 15th 05, 01:09 PM
A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject on
your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how contagious
this virus is? Can a cat survive FIP? If so can this cat ever live with
other cats?

We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty was
diagnosed with FIP. If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the cat
back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat. I
know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that the
virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.

If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?

I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly healthiest
kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when they
were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up in
a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the diarrhea.
They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been tested
(negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke with
their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.

Wendy

yngver
December 15th 05, 06:04 PM
Wendy wrote:
> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject on
> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how contagious
> this virus is? Can a cat survive FIP? If so can this cat ever live with
> other cats?
>
> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty was
> diagnosed with FIP. If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the cat
> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat. I
> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that the
> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.
>
> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?
>
> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly healthiest
> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when they
> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up in
> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the diarrhea.
> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been tested
> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke with
> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.
>
FIP is a mutation of the common and relatively benign feline
coronavirus (FCoV). The coronavirus is very contagious, but the great
majority of cats who are infected will never develop FIP. Many
researchers now believe that FIP transmission cat to cat is highly
unlikely, but it is very likely that a cat exposed to the coronavirus
will be infected with it. However, the majority of cats, especially if
they have ever been in a shelter or a cattery, have already been
exposed to the coronavirus.

You should find out how this cat was diagnosed. FIP is notoriously
difficult to diagnose and is frequently mis-diagnosed. Yes, if the cat
survives then it's quite likely that FIP was misdiagnosed, but the
problem is that sometimes if the vet suspects FIP, he/she does not look
for treatable solutions.

FIP used to be considered to be invariably fatal, but I recently read
an article in one of the veterinary school magazines that demonstrated
that some cats did recover from FIP with certain treatments.
Unfortunately I don't recall the details.

My own opinion is that I always doubt a diagnosis of FIP because most
of the time it turns out to be wrong. Good luck, and hopefully Phil can
add more good info.
-Yngver

Wendy
December 15th 05, 08:30 PM
"yngver" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Wendy wrote:
>> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject
>> on
>> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how
>> contagious
>> this virus is? Can a cat survive FIP? If so can this cat ever live with
>> other cats?
>>
>> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty
>> was
>> diagnosed with FIP. If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the
>> cat
>> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat.
>> I
>> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
>> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that
>> the
>> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
>> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.
>>
>> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?
>>
>> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
>> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly
>> healthiest
>> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when
>> they
>> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up
>> in
>> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the
>> diarrhea.
>> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been
>> tested
>> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke
>> with
>> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.
>>
> FIP is a mutation of the common and relatively benign feline
> coronavirus (FCoV). The coronavirus is very contagious, but the great
> majority of cats who are infected will never develop FIP. Many
> researchers now believe that FIP transmission cat to cat is highly
> unlikely, but it is very likely that a cat exposed to the coronavirus
> will be infected with it. However, the majority of cats, especially if
> they have ever been in a shelter or a cattery, have already been
> exposed to the coronavirus.
>
> You should find out how this cat was diagnosed. FIP is notoriously
> difficult to diagnose and is frequently mis-diagnosed. Yes, if the cat
> survives then it's quite likely that FIP was misdiagnosed, but the
> problem is that sometimes if the vet suspects FIP, he/she does not look
> for treatable solutions.
>
> FIP used to be considered to be invariably fatal, but I recently read
> an article in one of the veterinary school magazines that demonstrated
> that some cats did recover from FIP with certain treatments.
> Unfortunately I don't recall the details.
>
> My own opinion is that I always doubt a diagnosis of FIP because most
> of the time it turns out to be wrong. Good luck, and hopefully Phil can
> add more good info.
> -Yngver
>

Thanks. The info online is quite confusing and not particularly helpful
about what we should do with this cat. The vet wants to discharge him
tomorrow and he's apparently responding to treatment. I've been getting a
more alarmist POV from the guy who adopted him than I am from the vet tech I
spoke with at the animal hospital.

I read that the 'dry' variety can go into submission but the cat is still
expected to die within a year. If this guy gets 'healthy' I don't know what
we should do with him. I don't want to adopt him out and then have him get
sick again and die. We've just been through that with one adoptive home.
OTOH if he didn't have FIP we shouldn't just keep him around waiting for him
to get sick again.

One site says to isolate him another says that's not necessary. I would
think it prudent to isolate him for some period of time if not for any other
reason than for him to adjust to his new surroundings. But for how long?
......... a million questions, no definitive answers.

I'll try to find out from the vet what they did to diagnose this. I know
blood was tested but the adoptive father said something about testing mucus
from the intestine (I forget if it was bowel or small intestine).

W

Wendy
December 15th 05, 09:15 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "yngver" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Wendy wrote:
>>> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject
>>> on
>>> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how
>>> contagious
>>> this virus is? Can a cat survive FIP? If so can this cat ever live with
>>> other cats?
>>>
>>> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty
>>> was
>>> diagnosed with FIP. If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the
>>> cat
>>> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident
>>> cat. I
>>> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
>>> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that
>>> the
>>> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
>>> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.
>>>
>>> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?
>>>
>>> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
>>> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly
>>> healthiest
>>> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when
>>> they
>>> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared
>>> up in
>>> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the
>>> diarrhea.
>>> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been
>>> tested
>>> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke
>>> with
>>> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.
>>>
>> FIP is a mutation of the common and relatively benign feline
>> coronavirus (FCoV). The coronavirus is very contagious, but the great
>> majority of cats who are infected will never develop FIP. Many
>> researchers now believe that FIP transmission cat to cat is highly
>> unlikely, but it is very likely that a cat exposed to the coronavirus
>> will be infected with it. However, the majority of cats, especially if
>> they have ever been in a shelter or a cattery, have already been
>> exposed to the coronavirus.
>>
>> You should find out how this cat was diagnosed. FIP is notoriously
>> difficult to diagnose and is frequently mis-diagnosed. Yes, if the cat
>> survives then it's quite likely that FIP was misdiagnosed, but the
>> problem is that sometimes if the vet suspects FIP, he/she does not look
>> for treatable solutions.
>>
>> FIP used to be considered to be invariably fatal, but I recently read
>> an article in one of the veterinary school magazines that demonstrated
>> that some cats did recover from FIP with certain treatments.
>> Unfortunately I don't recall the details.
>>
>> My own opinion is that I always doubt a diagnosis of FIP because most
>> of the time it turns out to be wrong. Good luck, and hopefully Phil can
>> add more good info.
>> -Yngver
>>
>
> Thanks. The info online is quite confusing and not particularly helpful
> about what we should do with this cat. The vet wants to discharge him
> tomorrow and he's apparently responding to treatment. I've been getting a
> more alarmist POV from the guy who adopted him than I am from the vet tech
> I spoke with at the animal hospital.
>
> I read that the 'dry' variety can go into submission but the cat is still
> expected to die within a year. If this guy gets 'healthy' I don't know
> what we should do with him. I don't want to adopt him out and then have
> him get sick again and die. We've just been through that with one adoptive
> home. OTOH if he didn't have FIP we shouldn't just keep him around waiting
> for him to get sick again.
>
> One site says to isolate him another says that's not necessary. I would
> think it prudent to isolate him for some period of time if not for any
> other reason than for him to adjust to his new surroundings. But for how
> long? ........ a million questions, no definitive answers.
>
> I'll try to find out from the vet what they did to diagnose this. I know
> blood was tested but the adoptive father said something about testing
> mucus from the intestine (I forget if it was bowel or small intestine).
>
> W
>

duh! remission not submission

Phil P.
December 16th 05, 12:17 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject
on
> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how
contagious
> this virus is?


Very unlikely. Cats with FIP don't shed the FIP virus because the mutant
virus is present only in macrophages and lesions in the body. The FIP virus
arises from the spontaneous mutation of the benign parent enteric
coronavirus (FECV) in individual cats. That means no two cases of FIP are
caused by the same virus. If transmission does occur- its the exception
rather than the rule. The only coronavirus cats shed in their poop is the
benign *enteric* coronavirus because it colonizes the intestines..



> Can a cat survive FIP?


Technically yes- but not usually if symptoms develop.



If so can this cat ever live with
> other cats?


Absolutely!


>
> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty
was
> diagnosed with FIP.


How was the cat diagnosed? Dry FIP can be diagnosed *only* by
histopathologic examination of affected biopsy tissue samples- wet
(effusive) FIP can be diagnosed by fluid characteristics. There are no
blood tests that can diagnose FIP.


If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the cat
> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat.
I
> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that
the
> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.


Transmission is very highly unlikely. FIPVs are "custom made" by each
individual cat- they're not transmitted from cat to cat.



>
> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?



Unlikely. Has the kitten been tested for parvovirus
(panleukopenia/distemper)? Was any bloodwork done? What was the kitten's
serum protein and globulin levels? If either one is normal- you can rule
out FIP. What was the kitten's white blood cell count? The Idexx CITE
canine parvovirus test kit detects parvovirus in cat poop. Is the kitten on
fluid therapy? Does he have a nonresponsive fever?




>
> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly healthiest
> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when they
> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up
in
> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the
diarrhea.
> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been
tested
> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke with
> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.


I think the kitten should be tested for panleukopenia.

Keep me posted.

Phil

Wendy
December 16th 05, 04:15 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject
> on
>> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how
> contagious
>> this virus is?
>
>
> Very unlikely. Cats with FIP don't shed the FIP virus because the mutant
> virus is present only in macrophages and lesions in the body. The FIP
> virus
> arises from the spontaneous mutation of the benign parent enteric
> coronavirus (FECV) in individual cats. That means no two cases of FIP are
> caused by the same virus. If transmission does occur- its the exception
> rather than the rule. The only coronavirus cats shed in their poop is the
> benign *enteric* coronavirus because it colonizes the intestines..
>
>
>
>> Can a cat survive FIP?
>
>
> Technically yes- but not usually if symptoms develop.
>
>
>
> If so can this cat ever live with
>> other cats?
>
>
> Absolutely!
>
>
>>
>> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty
> was
>> diagnosed with FIP.
>
>
> How was the cat diagnosed? Dry FIP can be diagnosed *only* by
> histopathologic examination of affected biopsy tissue samples- wet
> (effusive) FIP can be diagnosed by fluid characteristics. There are no
> blood tests that can diagnose FIP.
>
>
> If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the cat
>> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat.
> I
>> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
>> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that
> the
>> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
>> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.
>
>
> Transmission is very highly unlikely. FIPVs are "custom made" by each
> individual cat- they're not transmitted from cat to cat.
>
>
>
>>
>> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?
>
>
>
> Unlikely. Has the kitten been tested for parvovirus
> (panleukopenia/distemper)? Was any bloodwork done? What was the kitten's
> serum protein and globulin levels? If either one is normal- you can rule
> out FIP. What was the kitten's white blood cell count? The Idexx CITE
> canine parvovirus test kit detects parvovirus in cat poop. Is the kitten
> on
> fluid therapy? Does he have a nonresponsive fever?
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
>> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly
>> healthiest
>> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when
>> they
>> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up
> in
>> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the
> diarrhea.
>> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been
> tested
>> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke
>> with
>> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.
>
>
> I think the kitten should be tested for panleukopenia.
>
> Keep me posted.
>
> Phil
>
From what I understand the kitten showed URI symptoms shortly after being
adopted. He was taken to the vet and put on antibiotics. Over time the
respiratory symptoms subsided and the cat was eating on his own but wasn't
having regular bowel movements. I don't know how much he was eating and
whether that could account for the lack of poo. The adoptive father said
that he was concerned because the kitten seemed lethargic. I don't know why
he didn't have his regular vet treating the kitten but he ended up taking
the kitten to a homeopathic vet who was giving him fluids, a vitamin c drip,
antibiotics and I don't know what else. The kitten has had a fever but last
I heard it's down.

I spoke with the head of the rescue group and she wants to get all of the
vets record to take to our vet and get his opinion on what is going on with
this cat.

The adoptive father says that he'll pay for the vet until tomorrow noon and
then we need to either pick up further bills or take the cat elsewhere. When
I spoke to the vet tech at the hospital she said the kitten was well enough
to come home today and was only still there because the man didn't want to
take the kitten home and risk the resident cat. She also told me that this
virus is VERY contagious and is airborne. She said that the kitten will
always be shedding the virus and could NEVER be with another cat. They have
the adoptive father convinced that this cat will need up to 5 hours a day of
someone sitting with him nursing him with homeopathic remedies. This is
somewhat inconsistent with the picture the tech is painting. From what she
says the kitten appears to be getting better

The cat isn't showing any of the typical signs of Panleukopenia from what I
understand but I don't know if it was tested for that or not.

I have been placed in the position of having to bring this cat home tomorrow
until a more suitable place can be found for him or he will be euthanized. I
hate the very thought of this guy not being given a chance. I have heard of
case after case where vets diagnose an illness as FIP and it turns out that
wasn't what the cat had at all. It seems to be the catch-all diagnosis when
they don't have a clue probably because it's so hard to prove. However, I
currently have 10 fosters at home. 6 are a litter of kittens who are getting
over respiratory infections. one is a very underweight kitten who was just
picked up off the street late last week. I also have a 5 week old kitten who
is still being bottle fed. They aren't all in the same room and the only
room I could put the FIP? kitten in would be the bathroom. I also have 3
cats of my own so this isn't the ideal situation.

I have to try because I just can't stand not trying but I need to know how
to do this as safely as possible.

Wendy

yngver
December 16th 05, 05:02 PM
Wendy wrote:
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> A web search on FIP yielded some conflicting info. Links to this subject
> > on
> >> your site are down. What is the latest information regarding how
> > contagious
> >> this virus is?
> >
> >
> > Very unlikely. Cats with FIP don't shed the FIP virus because the mutant
> > virus is present only in macrophages and lesions in the body. The FIP
> > virus
> > arises from the spontaneous mutation of the benign parent enteric
> > coronavirus (FECV) in individual cats. That means no two cases of FIP are
> > caused by the same virus. If transmission does occur- its the exception
> > rather than the rule. The only coronavirus cats shed in their poop is the
> > benign *enteric* coronavirus because it colonizes the intestines..
> >
> >
> >
> >> Can a cat survive FIP?
> >
> >
> > Technically yes- but not usually if symptoms develop.
> >
> >
> >
> > If so can this cat ever live with
> >> other cats?
> >
> >
> > Absolutely!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> We recently adopted out a cat and the new owner called to say the kitty
> > was
> >> diagnosed with FIP.
> >
> >
> > How was the cat diagnosed? Dry FIP can be diagnosed *only* by
> > histopathologic examination of affected biopsy tissue samples- wet
> > (effusive) FIP can be diagnosed by fluid characteristics. There are no
> > blood tests that can diagnose FIP.
> >
> >
> > If the cat survives, he isn't comfortable taking the cat
> >> back to his house because he's concerned it will infect his resident cat.
> > I
> >> know you have said before that this isn't something that you have seen
> >> transmitted from cat to cat but I have read on more sites than not that
> > the
> >> virus can be transmitted through contact with fecal matter hence my
> >> confusion as another site said this was highly unlikely.
> >
> >
> > Transmission is very highly unlikely. FIPVs are "custom made" by each
> > individual cat- they're not transmitted from cat to cat.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> If he does make it how likely is it that the diagnosis was accurate?
> >
> >
> >
> > Unlikely. Has the kitten been tested for parvovirus
> > (panleukopenia/distemper)? Was any bloodwork done? What was the kitten's
> > serum protein and globulin levels? If either one is normal- you can rule
> > out FIP. What was the kitten's white blood cell count? The Idexx CITE
> > canine parvovirus test kit detects parvovirus in cat poop. Is the kitten
> > on
> > fluid therapy? Does he have a nonresponsive fever?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I'm surprised that this is happening to this particular kitten. He was
> >> always the biggest, most outgoing, most energetic and seemingly
> >> healthiest
> >> kitten in this litter. The litter was brought into a vets office when
> >> they
> >> were around 3-4 weeks old. They had horrible diarrhea but that cleared up
> > in
> >> a week or two. This sick kitten was the first one to get over the
> > diarrhea.
> >> They was no sign of illness after that and all the kittens have been
> > tested
> >> (negative) for FIV FeLV. The other two are fine the last time I spoke
> >> with
> >> their adoptive moms (recently) and this poor guy might not make it.
> >
> >
> > I think the kitten should be tested for panleukopenia.
> >
> > Keep me posted.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> From what I understand the kitten showed URI symptoms shortly after being
> adopted. He was taken to the vet and put on antibiotics. Over time the
> respiratory symptoms subsided and the cat was eating on his own but wasn't
> having regular bowel movements. I don't know how much he was eating and
> whether that could account for the lack of poo. The adoptive father said
> that he was concerned because the kitten seemed lethargic. I don't know why
> he didn't have his regular vet treating the kitten but he ended up taking
> the kitten to a homeopathic vet who was giving him fluids, a vitamin c drip,
> antibiotics and I don't know what else. The kitten has had a fever but last
> I heard it's down.
>
> I spoke with the head of the rescue group and she wants to get all of the
> vets record to take to our vet and get his opinion on what is going on with
> this cat.
>
> The adoptive father says that he'll pay for the vet until tomorrow noon and
> then we need to either pick up further bills or take the cat elsewhere. When
> I spoke to the vet tech at the hospital she said the kitten was well enough
> to come home today and was only still there because the man didn't want to
> take the kitten home and risk the resident cat. She also told me that this
> virus is VERY contagious and is airborne. She said that the kitten will
> always be shedding the virus and could NEVER be with another cat. They have
> the adoptive father convinced that this cat will need up to 5 hours a day of
> someone sitting with him nursing him with homeopathic remedies. This is
> somewhat inconsistent with the picture the tech is painting. From what she
> says the kitten appears to be getting better
>
> The cat isn't showing any of the typical signs of Panleukopenia from what I
> understand but I don't know if it was tested for that or not.
>
> I have been placed in the position of having to bring this cat home tomorrow
> until a more suitable place can be found for him or he will be euthanized. I
> hate the very thought of this guy not being given a chance. I have heard of
> case after case where vets diagnose an illness as FIP and it turns out that
> wasn't what the cat had at all. It seems to be the catch-all diagnosis when
> they don't have a clue probably because it's so hard to prove. However, I
> currently have 10 fosters at home. 6 are a litter of kittens who are getting
> over respiratory infections. one is a very underweight kitten who was just
> picked up off the street late last week. I also have a 5 week old kitten who
> is still being bottle fed. They aren't all in the same room and the only
> room I could put the FIP? kitten in would be the bathroom. I also have 3
> cats of my own so this isn't the ideal situation.
>
> I have to try because I just can't stand not trying but I need to know how
> to do this as safely as possible.
>
> Wendy

Wendy, it sounds to me as though the adoptive father has given up on
this kitten and you should take him back. The vet tech doesn't know
what she's talking about, but keep in mind that there is a lot of
misinformation out there about FIP. Of course neither Phil nor I are
vets, but at least in my opinion--for what it's worth-- it doesn't
sound as though this kitten has FIP. I have a suspicion the homeopathic
vet did not help the situation although as a rule I'm not opposed to
homeopathy.

It's a good idea to have the rescue group vet look at the kitten's
medical records and give an opinion what's going on. I can understand
your concern about exposing your other kittens to whatever illness this
kitten may have (although I wouldn't worry about FIP exposure, for the
reasons Phil explained, but the kitten could have something else
contagious, although treatable). Perhaps you could keep him confined
just until the other vet reviews the records. Then you will have a
better idea of how best to treat him. I hope you can find a way to give
the kitten a chance, since even as you have noted, so frequently a
diagnosis of FIP is wrong. I hate to hear how many times a cat or
kitten has been euthanized due to a misdiagnosis of FIP when in fact
there was something treatable.
-Yngver

Wendy
December 16th 05, 07:46 PM
"yngver" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Wendy wrote:
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> nk.net...
>> >
>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>
> Wendy, it sounds to me as though the adoptive father has given up on
> this kitten and you should take him back. The vet tech doesn't know
> what she's talking about, but keep in mind that there is a lot of
> misinformation out there about FIP. Of course neither Phil nor I are
> vets, but at least in my opinion--for what it's worth-- it doesn't
> sound as though this kitten has FIP. I have a suspicion the homeopathic
> vet did not help the situation although as a rule I'm not opposed to
> homeopathy.
>
> It's a good idea to have the rescue group vet look at the kitten's
> medical records and give an opinion what's going on. I can understand
> your concern about exposing your other kittens to whatever illness this
> kitten may have (although I wouldn't worry about FIP exposure, for the
> reasons Phil explained, but the kitten could have something else
> contagious, although treatable). Perhaps you could keep him confined
> just until the other vet reviews the records. Then you will have a
> better idea of how best to treat him. I hope you can find a way to give
> the kitten a chance, since even as you have noted, so frequently a
> diagnosis of FIP is wrong. I hate to hear how many times a cat or
> kitten has been euthanized due to a misdiagnosis of FIP when in fact
> there was something treatable.
> -Yngver
>

Thanks! Kitty is home where he belongs. I've got him set up in the bathroom
with a nice warm place to sleep, food, water and a litter box. The bathroom
is the first stop for the heating ductwork so it stays pretty comfy in
there. He is picking at his food but that is good because he hadn't been
eating at the vet's much at all today. I'll keep an eye on him and
supplement with nutri-cal if necessary. He is more alert here than he
appeared in the vet's office and still loves a good scritching behind the
ears and under the chin.

They are giving him interferon, vitamin C and some homeopathic remedies. He
gets all three times a day. The tech I spoke to today (different one than
yesterday) said that the vet we optimistic about his .... recovery? I guess
that depends on what he has, whether it's recovery or remission.

I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears the
report was generated on the 13th.

Glucose 134
Urea Nitrogen 19
Creatinine 0.7
Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
Albumin 2.7
Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
Alkaline Phosphatase 38
ALT (SGPT) 58
AST (SGOT) 113 (high) 10 - 100
Cholesterol 267 (high) 75 - 220
Calcium 10.2
Phosphorus 10.1 (high) 2.4 - 8.2
Sodium 172 (high) 145 - 158
Potassium 5.0
Chloride 137 (high) 104 - 128
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 27
Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
Lipase 57
Amylase 1627 (high) 100 - 1200
Triglycerides 67
CPK 531 (high) 56 - 529
GGTP <5
Magnesium 2.7 (high) 1.5 - 2.5
Calculated Osmolality 343 (high) 299 - 330

Comment: Hemolysis 2+, the following results may be affected by this degree
of hemolysis
-Increased-
Albumin may be increased up to 10%
Total bilirubin may be increased by 2 - 3 times
AST may be increased by 20 - 250%
Phosphorus may be increased by 10 - 20%
CPK may be increased by 50 - 75%
Uric acid may be increased by 2 times
Magnesium may be increased by 15 - 20%

-Decreased-
Alkaline phosphatase may be decreased by up to 40%
Creatinine may be decreased to to 10%
Amylase may be decreased by 20 - 30%
Triglyceride may be decreased by 15 - 25%

Complete Blood Count
Hemoglobin 8.6 (low) 9.3 - 15.9
Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
RBC 6.12
MCV 44
MCH 14.1
MCHC 32.2
Platelet Count 54 (low) 200 - 500
Platelet Clumps are detected in this sample. Platelet clumping prevents
precise determination of a platelet count (by any method) and falsely
decreases the platelet number. The reported count reflects the MINIMUM
platelet number. The platelet estimate reflects the estimated contribution
of the platelet clumps

Platelet Estimate Adequate
Differential Absolute\
Neutrophils 2541 77% 2500 - 8500
Bands 0 0 0 - 150
Lymphocytes 660 (low) 20% 1200 - 8000
Monocytes 66 2% 0 - 600
Eosinophils 33 1% 0-1000
Basophils 0 0% 0 - 150

T4 0.4 (low) 0.8 - 4.0

The first vet is supposed to be faxing over the rest of the records and any
reports this afternoon. It appears that the Homeopathic vet didn't send out
for any other testing or I can't read the handwritten notes. Either way
there isn't a report from any other lab other than what I copied above.

I'm just hoping against hope that it isn't FIP.

Wendy

Phil P.
December 17th 05, 01:16 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...

> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears the
> report was generated on the 13th.
>

> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8

> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4

> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4

A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.

> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3

> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0

The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork that
cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with FIP-
other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the same
results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP are
almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also, most
FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4. The
bloodwork is ***NOT*** difinitive for FIP.

If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him closely.
The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might develop
is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they stop
looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat any
problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.

Keep the faith.

Phil

Wendy
December 17th 05, 12:19 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears the
>> report was generated on the 13th.
>>
>
>> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
>
>> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
>
>> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
>
> A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
>
>> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
>
>> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
>> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
>
> The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork that
> cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
> significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
> elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with FIP-
> other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the
> same
> results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP are
> almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also, most
> FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4.
> The
> bloodwork is ***NOT*** difinitive for FIP.
>
> If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him closely.
> The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might develop
> is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they stop
> looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat any
> problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
>
> Keep the faith.
>
> Phil
>
Thanks Phil.

One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with this
guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us a
hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom. I
don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.

I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've consulted
with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing that
might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.

The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite frisky
and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt when
I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a very
people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He ate
some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more. And <drum roll> he
pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me. I'm
going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm there
this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.

I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make it.
I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive years
later. Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.

Wendy

Phil P.
December 17th 05, 06:58 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
the
> >> report was generated on the 13th.
> >>
> >
> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
> >
> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
> >
> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
> >
> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
> >
> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
> >
> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
> >
> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
that
> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
FIP-
> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the
> > same
> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
are
> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
most
> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4.
> > The
> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
> >
> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
closely.
> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
develop
> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
stop
> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
any
> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
> >
> > Keep the faith.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> Thanks Phil.
>
> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
this
> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us a
> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom. I
> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
>
> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
consulted
> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
that
> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
>
> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
frisky
> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
when
> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a very
> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
ate
> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.


Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite and
tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis and/or
little specks (keratic precipitates).



And <drum roll> he
> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me. I'm
> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
there
> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.


Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
needs to be fed with a syringe.


>
> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
it.
> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
years
> later.

Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.

Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis *everywhere*.
If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than all
the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it covers a
multitude of mistakes.


Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
decisions based on the numbers.


Keep the faith.

Phil

Wendy
December 18th 05, 12:01 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> nk.net...
>> >
>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
> the
>> >> report was generated on the 13th.
>> >>
>> >
>> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
>> >
>> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
>> >
>> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
>> >
>> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
>> >
>> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
>> >
>> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
>> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
>> >
>> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
> that
>> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
>> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
>> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
> FIP-
>> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the
>> > same
>> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
> are
>> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
> most
>> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4.
>> > The
>> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
>> >
>> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
> closely.
>> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
> develop
>> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
> stop
>> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
> any
>> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
>> >
>> > Keep the faith.
>> >
>> > Phil
>> >
>> Thanks Phil.
>>
>> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
> this
>> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us
>> a
>> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
>> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom.
>> I
>> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
>>
>> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
> consulted
>> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
> that
>> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
>>
>> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
> frisky
>> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
> when
>> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a
>> very
>> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
> ate
>> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
>> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.
>
>
> Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite
> and
> tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
> coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis and/or
> little specks (keratic precipitates).
>
>
>
> And <drum roll> he
>> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me.
>> I'm
>> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
> there
>> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
>
>
> Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
> energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
> needs to be fed with a syringe.
>
>
>>
>> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
> it.
>> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
> years
>> later.
>
> Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
>> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
>
> Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis *everywhere*.
> If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
> deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than all
> the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it covers
> a
> multitude of mistakes.
>
>
> Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
> decisions based on the numbers.
>
>
> Keep the faith.
>
> Phil
>
>
We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We had
called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the phone
call was being made.

I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.

Wendy

Phil P.
December 18th 05, 01:47 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> nk.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
> > the
> >> >> report was generated on the 13th.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
> >> >
> >> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
> >> >
> >> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
> >> >
> >> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
> >> >
> >> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
> >> >
> >> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
> >> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
> >> >
> >> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
> > that
> >> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
> >> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
> >> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
> > FIP-
> >> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce
the
> >> > same
> >> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
> > are
> >> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
> > most
> >> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than
..4.
> >> > The
> >> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
> >> >
> >> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
> > closely.
> >> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
> > develop
> >> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
> > stop
> >> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
> > any
> >> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
> >> >
> >> > Keep the faith.
> >> >
> >> > Phil
> >> >
> >> Thanks Phil.
> >>
> >> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
> > this
> >> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives
us
> >> a
> >> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
> >> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my
bathroom.
> >> I
> >> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
> >>
> >> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
> > consulted
> >> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
> > that
> >> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
> >>
> >> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
> > frisky
> >> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
> > when
> >> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a
> >> very
> >> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
> > ate
> >> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
> >> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.
> >
> >
> > Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite
> > and
> > tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
> > coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis
and/or
> > little specks (keratic precipitates).
> >
> >
> >
> > And <drum roll> he
> >> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me.
> >> I'm
> >> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
> > there
> >> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
> >
> >
> > Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
> > energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
> > needs to be fed with a syringe.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
> > it.
> >> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
> > years
> >> later.
> >
> > Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
> >> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
> >
> > Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis
*everywhere*.
> > If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
> > deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than
all
> > the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it
covers
> > a
> > multitude of mistakes.
> >
> >
> > Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
> > decisions based on the numbers.
> >
> >
> > Keep the faith.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
had
> called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the phone
> call was being made.
>
> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.


I'm sorry. It really breaks my heart when one so young dies.

Phil

yngver
December 18th 05, 04:29 AM
Wendy wrote:
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears the
> >> report was generated on the 13th.
> >>
> >
> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
> >
> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
> >
> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
> >
> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
> >
> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
> >
> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
> >
> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork that
> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with FIP-
> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the
> > same
> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP are
> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also, most
> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4.
> > The
> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** difinitive for FIP.
> >
> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him closely.
> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might develop
> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they stop
> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat any
> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
> >
> > Keep the faith.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> Thanks Phil.
>
> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with this
> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us a
> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom. I
> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
>
> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've consulted
> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing that
> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
>
> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite frisky
> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt when
> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a very
> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He ate
> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more. And <drum roll> he
> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me. I'm
> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm there
> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
>
> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make it.
> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive years
> later. Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
>
> Wendy

Wendy, it's great to hear this kitten is doing so well. It would be
interesting to see what bloodwork would show now--I've a suspicion the
values would be much better. You are right, when vets are baffled they
do seem to start mentioning FIP. Once when one of our cats was ill with
an unresponsive fever (and since your kitten's fever has responded to
treatment, that's an excellent sign) one of the vets said it could be
FIP even though our regular vet said it was unlikely, particulary since
she had a zero titer (which means no exposure to a coronavirus). That
is when I started doing a lot of research about FIP. Of course, that's
not what our cat had and she did respond to a change in antibiotics and
recovered completely. Good luck and keep us posted on how the kitten is
doing.
-Yngver

Wendy
December 18th 05, 11:35 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>> >
>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> > . ..
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> nk.net...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
>> > decisions based on the numbers.
>> >
>> >
>> > Keep the faith.
>> >
>> > Phil
>> >
>> >
>> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
> had
>> called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the phone
>> call was being made.
>>
>> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
>
>
> I'm sorry. It really breaks my heart when one so young dies.
>
> Phil
>
>
>

Most of my fosters come to me when they are bottle feeders or a little
older. Our pres. keeps reminding me that if you do this work long enough
it's inevitable you're going to lose some. I'll never get used to it.

Wendy

blkcatgal
December 18th 05, 02:59 PM
Sorry to hear this. You really tried to give him a chance. My heartfelt
condolences.

Sue

"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>>> nk.net...
>>> >
>>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >
>>> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
>> the
>>> >> report was generated on the 13th.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
>>> >
>>> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
>>> >
>>> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
>>> >
>>> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
>>> >
>>> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
>>> >
>>> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
>>> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
>>> >
>>> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
>> that
>>> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
>>> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
>>> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
>> FIP-
>>> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce
>>> > the
>>> > same
>>> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
>> are
>>> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
>> most
>>> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than
>>> > .4.
>>> > The
>>> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
>>> >
>>> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
>> closely.
>>> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
>> develop
>>> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
>> stop
>>> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
>> any
>>> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
>>> >
>>> > Keep the faith.
>>> >
>>> > Phil
>>> >
>>> Thanks Phil.
>>>
>>> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
>> this
>>> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us
>>> a
>>> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
>>> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom.
>>> I
>>> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
>>>
>>> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
>> consulted
>>> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
>> that
>>> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
>>>
>>> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
>> frisky
>>> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
>> when
>>> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a
>>> very
>>> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
>> ate
>>> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
>>> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.
>>
>>
>> Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite
>> and
>> tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
>> coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis and/or
>> little specks (keratic precipitates).
>>
>>
>>
>> And <drum roll> he
>>> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me.
>>> I'm
>>> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
>> there
>>> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
>>
>>
>> Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
>> energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
>> needs to be fed with a syringe.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
>> it.
>>> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
>> years
>>> later.
>>
>> Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
>>> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
>>
>> Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis
>> *everywhere*.
>> If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
>> deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than
>> all
>> the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it covers
>> a
>> multitude of mistakes.
>>
>>
>> Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
>> decisions based on the numbers.
>>
>>
>> Keep the faith.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
> had called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the
> phone call was being made.
>
> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
>
> Wendy
>
>
>

Phil P.
December 19th 05, 03:40 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
> > had
> >> called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the
phone
> >> call was being made.
> >>
> >> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry. It really breaks my heart when one so young dies.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
>
> Most of my fosters come to me when they are bottle feeders or a little
> older. Our pres. keeps reminding me that if you do this work long enough
> it's inevitable you're going to lose some. I'll never get used to it.

I haven't got used to it after 40 years - and I don't think I ever will.
If I
ever do get used it- then I'll know its time to quit.

yngver
December 19th 05, 06:54 PM
Wendy wrote:
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> nk.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
> > the
> >> >> report was generated on the 13th.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
> >> >
> >> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
> >> >
> >> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
> >> >
> >> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
> >> >
> >> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
> >> >
> >> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
> >> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
> >> >
> >> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
> > that
> >> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
> >> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
> >> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
> > FIP-
> >> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce the
> >> > same
> >> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
> > are
> >> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
> > most
> >> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than .4.
> >> > The
> >> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
> >> >
> >> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
> > closely.
> >> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
> > develop
> >> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
> > stop
> >> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
> > any
> >> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
> >> >
> >> > Keep the faith.
> >> >
> >> > Phil
> >> >
> >> Thanks Phil.
> >>
> >> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
> > this
> >> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives us
> >> a
> >> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
> >> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my bathroom.
> >> I
> >> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
> >>
> >> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
> > consulted
> >> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
> > that
> >> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
> >>
> >> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
> > frisky
> >> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
> > when
> >> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a
> >> very
> >> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
> > ate
> >> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
> >> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.
> >
> >
> > Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite
> > and
> > tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
> > coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis and/or
> > little specks (keratic precipitates).
> >
> >
> >
> > And <drum roll> he
> >> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me.
> >> I'm
> >> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
> > there
> >> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
> >
> >
> > Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
> > energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
> > needs to be fed with a syringe.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
> > it.
> >> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
> > years
> >> later.
> >
> > Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
> >> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
> >
> > Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis *everywhere*.
> > If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
> > deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than all
> > the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it covers
> > a
> > multitude of mistakes.
> >
> >
> > Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
> > decisions based on the numbers.
> >
> >
> > Keep the faith.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We had
> called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the phone
> call was being made.
>
> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
>
> Wendy

Wendy, I'm so sorry to hear this. But you gave him every chance
possible. Poor little guy.
-Yngver

Wendy
December 22nd 05, 11:33 AM
Thanks

"blkcatgal" > wrote in message
. ..
> Sorry to hear this. You really tried to give him a chance. My heartfelt
> condolences.
>
> Sue
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>>
>>> "Wendy" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>>>> nk.net...
>>>> >
>>>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>>>> > ...
>>>> >
>>>> >> I have the lab results done by the first vet who saw him. It appears
>>> the
>>>> >> report was generated on the 13th.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> *Total Protein 8.9 (high) 5.2 - 8.8
>>>> >
>>>> >> *Total Bilirubin 2.4 (high) 0.1 - 0.4
>>>> >
>>>> >> Albumin/Globulin Ratio 0.4
>>>> >
>>>> > A:G Ratio is borderline for *possible* FIP.
>>>> >
>>>> >> *Globulin 6.2 (high) 2.3 - 5.3
>>>> >
>>>> >> *Hematocrit 26.7 (Low) 29 - 48
>>>> >> *WBC 3.3 (low) 3.5 - 16.0
>>>> >
>>>> > The * are markers for *possible* FIP. This is the type of bloodwork
>>> that
>>>> > cats in trouble. Elevated tot. protein and globulin are the most
>>>> > significant markers for FIP- but they don't mean the cat has FIP, the
>>>> > elevations are very slight. Although the markers are consistent with
>>> FIP-
>>>> > other disease processes or a combination of processes could produce
>>>> > the
>>>> > same
>>>> > results. Plus you said his fever is down- fevers associated with FIP
>>> are
>>>> > almost invariably persistent and unresponsive to anitbiotics. Also,
>>> most
>>>> > FIP cats almost always have an albumin: globulin ratio of less than
>>>> > .4.
>>>> > The
>>>> > bloodwork is ***NOT*** definitive for FIP.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you want my advice- I'd go the distance with him and watch him
>>> closely.
>>>> > The most important thing *not* to do is think any problem he might
>>> develop
>>>> > is due to FIP. A lot of times, when a vet thinks a cat has FIP they
>>> stop
>>>> > looking for other causes of illness and stop treating the cat. Treat
>>> any
>>>> > problem he might develop as if it was the only illness he has.
>>>> >
>>>> > Keep the faith.
>>>> >
>>>> > Phil
>>>> >
>>>> Thanks Phil.
>>>>
>>>> One of the other volunteers and I are going to see what we can do with
>>> this
>>>> guy. If additional testing etc is indicated and the group pres. gives
>>>> us a
>>>> hard time about the money we're going to go halvsies on the bill. She's
>>>> getting a bedroom ready for him so he can be liberated from my
>>>> bathroom. I
>>>> don't have a window in there and it could get damn boring for him.
>>>>
>>>> I've got the vet records and we're going to get another vet we've
>>> consulted
>>>> with before to review what's been done and see if there is more testing
>>> that
>>>> might be helpful to at least rule out FIP if not indicate it.
>>>>
>>>> The kitten is doing well and the fever is still down. He's been quite
>>> frisky
>>>> and had no problem jumping up off the floor onto the front of my shirt
>>> when
>>>> I wasn't fast enough to pick him up when he wanted to be held. He's a
>>>> very
>>>> people oriented kitty and is working on becoming a primo lap fungus. He
>>> ate
>>>> some canned food overnight and has been eating SD dry kitten food. He
>>>> doesn't eat much at a time but keeps going back for more.
>>>
>>>
>>> Eating is a very good sign. Cats with FIP begin to lose their appetite
>>> and
>>> tend to waste away. They also become depressed and develop dull, rough
>>> coats. Watch is eyes for color changes in the iris and/or uveitis
>>> and/or
>>> little specks (keratic precipitates).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And <drum roll> he
>>>> pooped for the first time in a couple of days from what they tell me.
>>>> I'm
>>>> going to try to get a couple cans of A/D from the vets office when I'm
>>> there
>>>> this morning and see if that entices him to eat better.
>>>
>>>
>>> Canned kitten food would be better than a/d. Kitten food has more
>>> energy-density and contains more protein. a/d is better only when a cat
>>> needs to be fed with a syringe.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can't give up on this guy. I need to know for sure that he can't make
>>> it.
>>>> I know people with cats who have been diagnosed with FIP and are alive
>>> years
>>>> later.
>>>
>>> Around here is seems that FIP is the diagnosis of choice when the vet
>>>> doesn't have a clue what is wrong with the cat.
>>>
>>> Its not only common around your area- its a common diagnosis
>>> *everywhere*.
>>> If all the cats that were diagnosed with FIP actually had FIP- FIP would
>>> deplete the general feline population of the country more rapidly than
>>> all
>>> the diseases combined! An FIP diagnosis is like baggy clothes- it
>>> covers a
>>> multitude of mistakes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Remember, go by the *cat*- not the numbers. Don't make any drastic
>>> decisions based on the numbers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Keep the faith.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
>> had called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the
>> phone call was being made.
>>
>> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
>>
>> Wendy
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Wendy
December 22nd 05, 11:49 AM
"yngver" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Wendy wrote:
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>> >
>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> > . ..
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> nk.net...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> We lost him a little while ago. He started having trouble breathing. We
>> had
>> called the emergency vet but he never got there. He died while the phone
>> call was being made.
>>
>> I hate this! He was the sweetest little guy.
>>
>> Wendy
>
> Wendy, I'm so sorry to hear this. But you gave him every chance
> possible. Poor little guy.
> -Yngver
>


I just needed to be sure it was FIP.

I feel horrible for the man who adopted him. He had recently lost a cat and
now a second one.

W