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December 29th 05, 06:03 PM
I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.

-Marcus

Gail
December 29th 05, 06:10 PM
I think you need to start all over by separating them and placing the new
cat in a room of her own. Provide her with food, water, litter, and a bed.
Slowly let them see each other if possible through a screen door. When they
no longer hiss at each other, you can slowly let them see each other without
the screen. This process takes awhile. I introduced a kitten to my 2 year
old cat, and it was over 3 weeks before I let them touch each other without
the screen. You can also buy Feliway diffusers and place them where the cats
will be. Many people feel that these help calm the cats.
Gail
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
> times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
> considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
> to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
> we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
> her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
> other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
> them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
> sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
> runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
> the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
> eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
> she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
> jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
> trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
> she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
> and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
> the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
> in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
> as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
> impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
> doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
> appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
> another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
> mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
> tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
> doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
> bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
> them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
> letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
> since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.
>
> -Marcus
>

MaryL
December 29th 05, 06:33 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
> times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
> considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
> to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
> we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
> her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
> other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
> them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
> sit together while I and my wife each hold one.
>
> -Marcus
>

I agree with what Gail wrote. You need to do a complete re-introduction,
and this time you need to take it slowly and carefully -- step-by-step.
Feliway diffusers/dispenser can be very helpful. I have written to this
group on several occasions in which I described the process I used when I
introduced Duffy to Holly (greatly aided by advice from a long-time
contributor to this newsgroup). If you would like to read one of the
articles, you can find one at this location: http://tinyurl.com/8llwh

There are also a number of sites on the Internet the provide information on
introducing cats. I have not checked these links for some time, but most of
them should still be available:

http://www.catcaresociety.org/intro.htm
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/catintro.htm
http://www.cuhumane.org/topics/catcat.html
http://www.methuen-mspca.org/petcare/htm/catintro.htm
http://operationnoblefoster.org/catsanddog.htm
http://www.catsinternational.org/ (library of articles)

You can also see a "pictorial history" of the introduction if you click on
the links below my signature.

Good luck!

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

John Doe
December 30th 05, 01:49 AM
" > wrote:

....

The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
side effects).

I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
job was done without incident and only a little crying.

Claude V. Lucas
December 30th 05, 01:56 AM
In article >,
John Doe > wrote:
" > wrote:
>
>...
>
>The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
>help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
>(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
>side effects).
>
>I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
>comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
>while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
>butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
>job was done without incident and only a little crying.
>

Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.

When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
he's losing his sharps.


Claude

Brian Link
December 30th 05, 03:44 AM
On 30 Dec 2005 01:56:57 GMT, (Claude V. Lucas)
wrote:

>In article >,
>John Doe > wrote:
" > wrote:
>>
>>...
>>
>>The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
>>help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
>>(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
>>side effects).
>>
>>I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
>>comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
>>while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
>>butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
>>job was done without incident and only a little crying.
>>
>
>Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.
>
>When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
>a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
>two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
>strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
>to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
>can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
>he's losing his sharps.
>
>
>Claude

22 pound Maine Coon? Try a 14 pound Bengal - he looks like he weighs 8
or 9 pounds, and is all muscle. It's like rassling a snake.

BLink

Brian Link
December 30th 05, 03:49 AM
On 29 Dec 2005 10:03:31 -0800, "
> wrote:

>I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
>times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
>considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
>to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
>we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
>her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
>other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
>them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
>sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
>runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
>the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
>eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
>she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
>jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
>trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
>she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
>and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
>the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
>in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
>as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
>impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
>doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
>appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
>another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
>mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
>tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
>doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
>bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
>them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
>letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
>since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.
>
>-Marcus

Good advice being given - it's a long and patient process introducing
cats.

One thing I'll point out though - NEVER grab a couple fighting cats.
We had a botched introduction a few months ago where the new female
insisted on pulling rank on our two happy residents.

I've grabbed cats before when fighting (natural instinct), and gotten
some horrible infections out of it. When I heard Chloe battling, the
first thing I did was find a blanket, a shirt, a towel, and grabbed it
first. Then I flung it over her, and while she was subdued, grabbed
her adversary and popped him in a different room (our cats were always
quick to recover after a joust, and never mauled me, though that can't
be guaranteed).

Going back to square one, and several weeks, has resulted in an uneasy
truce. I may never see Chloe cuddling Tiger or Louis, but they are
happy in different parts of the house, and have a polite disengagement
they employ any time they find themselves in the same place at the
same time.

BLink

Claude V. Lucas
December 30th 05, 03:58 AM
In article >,
Brian Link > wrote:
>On 30 Dec 2005 01:56:57 GMT, (Claude V. Lucas)
>wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>>John Doe > wrote:
" > wrote:
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
>>>help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
>>>(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
>>>side effects).
>>>
>>>I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
>>>comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
>>>while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
>>>butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
>>>job was done without incident and only a little crying.
>>>
>>
>>Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.
>>
>>When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
>>a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
>>two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
>>strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
>>to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
>>can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
>>he's losing his sharps.
>>
>>
>>Claude
>
>22 pound Maine Coon? Try a 14 pound Bengal - he looks like he weighs 8
>or 9 pounds, and is all muscle. It's like rassling a snake.
>

Cat rassling is a no-win, somebody bleeds, event.

Much easier to catch them sleeping.

If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

Claude

John Doe
December 30th 05, 05:27 AM
(Claude V. Lucas) wrote:

>
> If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
> clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
without using a helper or some contraption.

Claude V. Lucas
December 30th 05, 05:42 AM
In article >,
John Doe > wrote:
(Claude V. Lucas) wrote:
>
>>
>> If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
>> clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...
>
>Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
>doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
>doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
>eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
>without using a helper or some contraption.
>

I'm glad that works for you.

Bubba is too big and too strong and wiggles with all his
strength when I try and pin him down like that. If I
do a couple or three claws at a time before he objects
I can keep them in a non-lethal state without having kitty
Wrestlemania and needing stitches afterward. He only needs
trimming every couple of months or so anyway.


Claude

Frank Pittel
December 30th 05, 10:20 AM
John Doe > wrote:
: (Claude V. Lucas) wrote:

: >
: > If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
: > clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

: Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
: doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
: doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
: eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
: without using a helper or some contraption.

I've had reasonable luck wrapping the cat in a large towel. It keeps
the bleeding to a minimum. :-)
--




-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

bag-o-switches
December 30th 05, 10:28 AM
wrote:
> I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
> times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
<wooo-be friend? If I let
> them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
> letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
> since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.
>
> -Marcus

woo woooo woo woo

woo wooo wo

wooo wowooooo wooooo

wooo wooo lol

wooo :)

woo woo woooo woowoo
wo

IMO

Claude V. Lucas
December 30th 05, 05:45 PM
In article >,
Frank Pittel > wrote:
>John Doe > wrote:
>: (Claude V. Lucas) wrote:
>
>: >
>: > If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
>: > clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...
>
>: Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
>: doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
>: doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
>: eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
>: without using a helper or some contraption.
>
>I've had reasonable luck wrapping the cat in a large towel. It keeps
>the bleeding to a minimum. :-)

Thats sounds good too. I'll give it a try, but I don't know if
he'll go for it. He freaks out when I put the bedcovers over him.
Speed and stealth has been the answer to clawtrimming so far.


Claude

December 31st 05, 02:43 AM
Good advice all. We do keep the 'aggressor' cat's nails clipped pretty
well. Normally he wouldn't dream of scratching us, but on the rare
occasion when he wants to play it rough, he'll clamp down with all paws
and teeth. Still hurts, but it doesn't draw blood. Ours has the
opposite reaction to one poster's cat though. He acts almost like a
bird when you throw a blanket over the birdcage. He gets still for a
minute or so, which is almost enough time to do the deed before he gets
wise and then he starts to squirm. The little girl is a tazmanian
devil- she can't be reasoned with no way no how. Got to get her when
she's asleep or in a very cuddly mood.

Still, here's hoping the reintroduction goes well. Some have mentioned
screen doors as a way to allow cats to acclimate to each other after
the period of not seeing each other. Do they make indoor screen doors
or another kind of see-through barrier for such a purpose? I'd rather
not have to install a full-blown screen door onto one of my door frames
if someone makes something a little more reasonable. We tried stacking
kiddie fences at the entrance of our kitchen for the boy once to keep
him from doing the dishes at 3am but he just climbed up and over no
problem so it would have to be something that would fit the size of a
door frame.

-Marcus

Gold Finger
December 31st 05, 03:14 AM
wrote:
> Good advice all. We do keep the 'aggressor' cat's nails clipped pretty
> well. Normally he wouldn't dream of scratching us, but on the rare
.... just climbed up and over no
> problem so it would have to be something that would fit the size of a
> door frame.
>
> -Marcus

for a screen divider...
yes, just keep it simple

them old men at the hardware store are very helpful...
they have good ideas, probably rabbit cage material
on a square frame of 2x2's x 4' high

you didn't say one was attacking the other, so I think 4' should be
intimidating enough

John Doe
December 31st 05, 03:15 AM
" > wrote:

>
> Still, here's hoping the reintroduction goes well.

I introduced a very timid young male cat to my older female over two
years ago. She is still aggressive towards him. Even so, I have to
treat her like number one or her nerves fall apart. Things
definitely got better over a long period of time, but she really
really does not like him and apparently never will. Oh well.

She isn't much of a threat in reality and it's less hazardous than
his former deadly outside environment. Maybe my next effort will be
to help a (neutered/spayed) stray survive outside, however futile.

Good luck.

MaryL
December 31st 05, 03:53 AM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Still, here's hoping the reintroduction goes well. Some have mentioned
> screen doors as a way to allow cats to acclimate to each other after
> the period of not seeing each other. Do they make indoor screen doors
> or another kind of see-through barrier for such a purpose? I'd rather
> not have to install a full-blown screen door onto one of my door frames
> if someone makes something a little more reasonable. We tried stacking
> kiddie fences at the entrance of our kitchen for the boy once to keep
> him from doing the dishes at 3am but he just climbed up and over no
> problem so it would have to be something that would fit the size of a
> door frame.
>
> -Marcus
>

The stacking kiddie fences can be awkward to use and often are not
effective. You can buy the very *cheapest* screen door available (could be
unfinished wood), then attach it by unscrewing your permanent door. Use the
hardware (hinges and door knob) from that door and use it on the temporary
screen door. Keep the permanent door (you could just lean it against a wall
somewhere) because this arrangement will be very temporary. This gives you
a true door that can easily be closed to keep the cats from getting in or
out, and the whole cost is only a few dollars. After the re-introduction is
complete, reverse the process and re-hang your permanent door.

A man who works for me does all sorts of "handyman" work for me, and he
worked out an even nicer arrangement. He found a damaged door (not a screen
door) that was very cheap because of the damage. He cut a large square at
the base and mounted a heavy wire mesh plate over that. He also mounted
some small hooks so I could drape a sheet over the opening if I needed to
create more separation, but that was never necessary. I think I posted the
links to the "pictorial history" of Duffy's introduction to Holly, but I
will post them again (under my signature). If you will scroll through the
first set of photos, you can see pictures of this arrangement.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")