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Knack
January 18th 06, 05:00 AM
I've begun feeding my cats the following raw people foods: egg yolks,
chicken, beef, and beef livers. I'll probably give them various chicken
organ meats in the future. Is freezing an effective way to kill parasites on
all of these raw foods?

Note: For calcium the kitties are getting canned sardines, canned mackerel,
and canned pink salmon; all of which contain soft hydrated bones.

They also get a small amount of olive oil, nutritional yeast, and tomato
juice in their diet.

Is this a nutritionally complete and balanced diet, or should I supplement
with anything?

Does anyone know a quick and easy way to separate the yolks from the whites
of eggs?

NMR
January 18th 06, 05:33 AM
"Knack" > wrote in message
. net...

> I've begun feeding my cats the following raw people foods: egg yolks,
> chicken, beef, and beef livers. I'll probably give them various chicken
> organ meats in the future.

Before you go any farther go to this site and read it completely
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Is freezing an effective way to kill parasites on
> all of these raw foods?
>
NO ONLY WAY IS TO COMPLETELY COOK THE FOOD TO PROPER TEMPERATURE
Germs can lay dorminate for years in a frozen envirnment they have unfrozen
microbodies from the stomachs of wolly mammoths that were frozen during the
last ice age.


> Note: For calcium the kitties are getting canned sardines, canned
> mackerel, and canned pink salmon; all of which contain soft hydrated
> bones.
>
> They also get a small amount of olive oil, nutritional yeast, and tomato
> juice in their diet.
>
> Is this a nutritionally complete and balanced diet, or should I supplement
> with anything?

From Phil's site
Taurine

Cats also require a dietary source of the B-amino acid taurine which is
present only in animal tissues. Cats cannot synthesize enough taurine from
dietary precursors to meet obligate intestinal loss. The cat uses only
taurine for bile salt synthesis (in comparison to dogs, that can substitute
glycine), causing an ongoing obligate loss of taurine with excreted bile
salts. Most animals produce both glycine and taurine conjugates of
cholesterol for secretion as bile acids, but cats can only use taurine.
Intestinal reabsorption of bile acids is not 100 percent efficient, so some
taurine is continually lost in the feces. Although not incorporated into
protein, taurine is required for normal cardiovascular (taurine deficiency
has been proved to cause dilated cardiomyopathy in cats), reproductive, and
visual function (taurine deficiency has also been proved to cause retinal
degeneration). AAFCO Nutrient Profiles for Cats require that canned cat
food contain a minimum of 2000 mg of taurine/kg diet and that foods contain
a minimum of 1000 mg/kg.

The nutritional value of protein depends on its amino acid composition as
well as on the efficiencies of its digestion, absorption, and utilization.
The use of amino acids for protein synthesis depends on the availability to
cells of all amino acids in the right proportion and at the right time. The
diet must provide these amino acids; otherwise, the body mobilizes them from
protein in its tissues. Plants can make all the amino acids they require by
synthesizing them from simple nitrogenous compounds such as ammonia and
nitrates. Cats require most of their dietary nitrogen to be as specific
amino acids.



http://www.fanciers.com/cat-faqs/misc.shtml

Preparing Food for your Cat
The following recipes are extracted from D.S. Kronfeld, 1986. Therapeutic
diets for dogs and cats including a simple system of recipes. Tijdschrift
voor diergeneeskunde 111 (suppl. 1) 37s-41s.
Basic recipe for cat maintenance diet
a.. 70 g dry white rice (1/3 c)
b.. 140 g 80% lean hamburger (2/3 c)
c.. 30g beef liver (1/8 c)
d.. 11 g bone meal (1 tbsp)
e.. 5 g corn oil (2 tsp)
f.. 2 g iodized salt (1/2 tsp)
Combine rice, 2/3 c water, bone meal, salt, and corn oil. Simmer about 20
min. Add meat and beef liver; simmer for 10 minutes. Cool before serving.
Can be frozen or refrigerated for several days.
Yield: 800 kcal metabolizable energy; 30% protein, %ME. (1.3% calcium, 1.1%
phosphorus, 0.5% potassium, 0.45% sodium, 0.15% magnesium, calculated on a
dry matter basis)

Cats at risk of FUS
Replace bone meal with 3 g (2 tsp) calcium carbonate or 1/2 tsp ground
limestone (NOT dolomite, which is rich in Mg). This lowers calcium from 1.3%
to 0.7%, phosphorus from 1.1 to 0.3%, magnesium from 0.15% to 0.08%. Calcium
carbonate or limestone does not blend well; you may prefer to give this in
pill or capsule form. Salt can be increased to 1 tsp to promote water
intake, and 1/4 to 1/2 tsp ammonium chloride can be added as a urinary
acidifier.
Kidney disease patients
Substitute 40-50% fat hamburger (50-60% lean) for regular hamburger to lower
protein content to 13%. For a protein content of 11%, substitute 1
medium-large egg (55g) and 1 Tbsp chicken fat (15 g) for meat. Animals in
renal failure are anorexic, and maintaining adequate calorie intake may be
one of the most important things in their therapy.
Heart failure
Without salt, the "regular recipe" has 0.05% sodium (compares to 0.03% in
special canned "heart diets" and 0.05% in the dry form). These levels are
suitable for animals in end-stage heart failure; for 1st and 2nd stage
chronic heart failure, 0.25% sodium is recommended (use 1/4 tsp salt in the
basic recipe instead of 1/2 tsp). Or use 1/2 tsp "lite salt" (50-50 sodium
chloride and potassium chloride) to reduce sodium to 0.25% and raise
potassium from 0.5% to 0.7%. This may be desirable if a potassium-robbing
diuretic is being used, and especially if digitalis is also prescribed,
since digitalis is more toxic in animals low in potassium. If salt is
entirely left out of the diet, 1/4 tsp potassium chloride may be included to
keep the animal from becoming potassium deficient.
Low fat diet
For non-specific gastrointestinal problems, malabsorption, osmotic diarrhea,
pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, lymphangiectasis, and portocaval shunts.
To reduce fat levels, substitute one of the following for the 70 g (2.5
oz)of 80% lean hamburger:


100 g (3.5 oz) 90% lean meat 10% fat
120 g (4.3 oz) egg 12% fat
180 g (6.3 oz) heart 4% fat
230 g (8.2 oz) cottage cheese 1% fat
400 g (14.4 oz) egg white, COOKED 0% fat
Substitute 1 tsp safflower oil for 2 tsp corn oil. In extreme cases, reduce
safflower oil to 1/2 tsp., or substitute MCT (medium chain triglyceride)
Low fat, high fiber diet
For geriatric animals, chronic enteritis or pancreatitis.
a.. 1/2 c dry white rice
b.. 1/3 c 90% lean hamburger
c.. 1/3 c wheat bran
d.. 2 Tbsp beef liver
e.. 1 Tbsp bone meal
f.. 2 tsp corn oil
g.. 1/2 tsp iodized salt
(this diet has only 700 calories, compared to 800 for the basal diet).
If the bran is too irritating to the intestines, replace all or part of the
bran with alpha cellulose (e.g. Solka Floc, from Brown & Co, Berlin, New
Hampshire, USA). This will greatly decrease the available calories also.

Reducing diet
a.. 1/3 c dry white rice
b.. 1/3 c 90% lean hamburger
c.. 2/3 c wheat bran
d.. 2 Tbsp beef liver
e.. 1 Tbsp bone meal
f.. 2 tsp corn oil
g.. 1/2 tsp iodized salt
This diet has only 600 cal compared to 800 calories of the basal diet.
Hypoallergenic diet
Substitute hamburger, ground mutton or lamb, pork, turkey, chicken, or fish
for the meat that had been normally consumed. Substitute chicken or turkey
liver for beef liver.
Low purine diet
Substitute a comprehensive trace mineral and vitamin tablet that contains
vitamin B-12 for liver in base diet. Replace meat with 1 or 2 eggs blended
in 1/4 to 1/2 c cows milk. Carrots or tomatoes can be blended in. This may
reduce protein content, but increase acceptance. Do not add other
vegetables.
Kay's comments:

I tried the recipes above on my 6 cats (not picky eaters!) They eagerly
accepted the basic diet, but were not especially fond of the reducing
diet... adding a tsp of instant minced onion seemed to improve the
acceptance, as did a little catnip mixed in.

Most cats should do well with the basic diet. If you make major changes
(such as the low fat or reducing versions), you may also want to make up
some basic diet and gradually shift the cat from basic to special diet.

http://www.fanciers.com/commpages.html for food sites
>
> Does anyone know a quick and easy way to separate the yolks from the
> whites of eggs?
>
spend 20 cents more at the grocery store and buy egg whites instead of
regular eggs

abRokeNegRo
January 18th 06, 06:12 AM
NMR wrote:
<..>

that's pretty handy info with the pet food raw diet recipes

just to clear it up for some folk, maybe you can tell the difference
between say a raw rat and a raw cow you claim has parasites

the rat does not?

just so we know

Knack
January 19th 06, 09:10 PM
"NMR" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Knack" > wrote in message
> . net...

>> Does anyone know a quick and easy way to separate the yolks from the
>> whites of eggs?
>>
> spend 20 cents more at the grocery store and buy egg whites instead of
> regular eggs

A big thanks for the URLs to the articles. Much of the info I had already
known. However, I was previously unaware of the dangers of too much PU fats,
which lead to a vitamin E deficiency. I also used to think that the extra
fatty Eukaneuba dry food was a far healhier choice than the other dry
catfoods, which have far more carbos. But the Max's House® article alerted
me to the possibility that the fats in dry catfoods may be excessively
rancid by the time the last amount in the bag is consumed. I had previously
known that PU fats are far less stable than saturated fats; thus they
oxidize (become rancid) much more readily, much sooner. Anyone feeding their
cat a dry food containing salmon should be particularly wary, because salmon
contains a fat profile high in PU fats.

Actually I want to feed my cats raw egg *yolks* because they're quite
nutrious. The high omega-3 eggs I buy have yolks with better profile of fats
than than does wild salmon (higher ratio of omega-3 PU fats to other PU
fats). The yolks also contain the vitamins B12, riboflavin, and folate. Plus
the yolks contain lecithin. The cooking of yolks begins the oxidation of
omega-3 fats. Egg whites can be nuked separately though.

PawsForThought
January 20th 06, 12:40 AM
Knack wrote:
> I've begun feeding my cats the following raw people foods: egg yolks,
> chicken, beef, and beef livers. I'll probably give them various chicken
> organ meats in the future. Is freezing an effective way to kill parasites on
> all of these raw foods?
>
> Note: For calcium the kitties are getting canned sardines, canned mackerel,
> and canned pink salmon; all of which contain soft hydrated bones.
>
> They also get a small amount of olive oil, nutritional yeast, and tomato
> juice in their diet.
>
> Is this a nutritionally complete and balanced diet, or should I supplement
> with anything?

What recipe are you following? This is not a well-balanced diet, IMO.
I highly recommend doing some research into raw diets for cats. Also,
you might want to join some of the feeding lists. I co-moderate on
one, if you're interested please feel free to email me.

As to your question on separating the egg yolks - break the egg in
half, pouring it back and forth between the two sides of the shell,
while letting the egg whites drip into the sink. Not really hard, just
takes a little practice :)

Lauren

Mr Tibbs
January 20th 06, 01:32 AM
NMR wrote:


Hey

I was thinking whats' the difference between a sewer rat and fresh meat
from the market

in fact the rat is more of a host for nasty germs than the cold beef is

im not trying to argue about it; my common sense tells me any raw meat
is fine
for a cat to eat, you have to consider if raw meat was appealing to the
cat, then he
can handle it

even the bitter is sweet to the hungry

don't you remember the cannibals on gilligans island?
there you go

John Doe
January 20th 06, 01:54 AM
A rat produces antibodies. Raw meat is a banquet for germs.

A nym shifting troll:

See also:
"a christmas tree" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net>
"abRokeNegRo"...
"bag-o-switches"...
"black-ip"
"chickenwing"...
"coffeedog"...
"johndoeisadick"...
"Levon"...
"Mr Tibbs"...
"Prozack"...
"wannabe"...
"watermelon"...
"whitershadeofpale"...

"abRokeNegRo" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> wrote:

> Path: newsdbm04.news.prodigy.com!newsdst01.news.prodigy. com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsco n02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!nx01.iad01.newsho sting.com!newshosting.com!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!po stnews.google.com!g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> From: "abRokeNegRo" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Freezing raw meats to kill parasites
> Date: 17 Jan 2006 22:12:35 -0800
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
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> Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:421057
>
>
> NMR wrote:
> <..>
>
> that's pretty handy info with the pet food raw diet recipes
>
> just to clear it up for some folk, maybe you can tell the difference
> between say a raw rat and a raw cow you claim has parasites
>
> the rat does not?
>
> just so we know
>
>
>

Knack
January 20th 06, 07:07 AM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Knack wrote:
>> I've begun feeding my cats the following raw people foods: egg yolks,
>> chicken, beef, and beef livers. I'll probably give them various chicken
>> organ meats in the future. Is freezing an effective way to kill parasites
>> on
>> all of these raw foods?
>>
>> Note: For calcium the kitties are getting canned sardines, canned
>> mackerel,
>> and canned pink salmon; all of which contain soft hydrated bones.
>>
>> They also get a small amount of olive oil, nutritional yeast, and tomato
>> juice in their diet.
>>
>> Is this a nutritionally complete and balanced diet, or should I
>> supplement
>> with anything?
>
> What recipe are you following? This is not a well-balanced diet, IMO.
> I highly recommend doing some research into raw diets for cats. Also,
> you might want to join some of the feeding lists. I co-moderate on
> one, if you're interested please feel free to email me.
>
> As to your question on separating the egg yolks - break the egg in
> half, pouring it back and forth between the two sides of the shell,
> while letting the egg whites drip into the sink. Not really hard, just
> takes a little practice :)
>
> Lauren
>
Hi Lauren. Not really following any particular diet. Just simply putting
together some ideas that I've gleaned over the years from various web pages
and newsgroup posts. There is one source that I copied in my notes: that by
Icsc (post #18) at
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats/browse_frm/thread/47695732dc8c08a8/9c856597b64f7310?lnk=st&q=%22Cat+Food+Ingredients+-+What+to+look+for%3F%22&rnum=3&hl=en#9c856597b64f7310

That was good advice about doing web research as there is no need to
reinvent the wheel. So I just found this web site
http://cats.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/rawfooddiet.htm

Your tip for the egg yolk separation worked great-- got the hang of it on my
first try. Dripped the white over an olive oiled glass bowl and nuked it. So
the cats get raw yolk and cooked white.