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View Full Version : Re: Kami May be Dying


January 19th 06, 01:49 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:
> Please spare me the usual flames. At least try to feel something for
> the cat if not the cat-mom.
>
> A week ago, cat came down with am imfection that cannot be identified
> at bladder, tract, or kidney because no one can get urine from her.
> She was put on Baytril after a shot of Benzapen. Since Friday, she
> refused to eat. She would go toward the food, but opt for a drink of
> water instead. A lot of water, in fact.
>
> Come Monday, I called the vet and told her that I have not given up on
> Kami, but but may be giving up herself. Dr. Tina said to give Kami
> WHATEVER she wanted to eat. It was more important that she right now
> than WHAT she ate.
>
> So last night, I offered tuna, which she gobbled a good tablespoon of,
> but then she wouldn't touch it again. After that, I gave her the
> favorite baby food, which she ate. Still refusing tuna, and out of
> baby food, I bought her the favorite hamburger. She ate a few bits,
> still refused tuna, and THEN refused the baby food. I pretend that any
> one of the choices was MY food, which usually gets her interested, but
> she kept refusing. She also keeps going toward the food, choosing
> water instead.
>
> Is she trying for kitty suicide? I have given her fluids twice in the
> week, but that hasn't helped. The doc took her off Baytril yesterday
> She last had one the morning before) and I thought she'd come around,
> but no. She looks at me with sad eyes that are either saying "fix
> this, " or "help me go." I can't tell which.
>
> She's still alert, bright, cuddly, and everything, but she's not eating
> and not interested. Ideas? Or is she saying it's time?

As long as she's bright & alert, I'd say no, it's not time. Plus she's
drinking, which is good. I know she's getting up there in years & has
been a CRF cat for a long while now, but this doesn't seem like the end
of the road yet - to me.

What about asking the vet for an appetite stimulant? I used Periactin
(generic: cyproheptadine) with success for that purpoose for one of my
cats. It's an antihistamine for humans, but acts quite well as an
appetite stimulant for cats. Since she was diagnosed with some sort of
infection (beyond the CRF), maybe even the Periactin wouldn't help her
to want to eat - but hey, maybe it would! And sometimes all it takes
is a jump-start, to get the appetite in gear again.

Good luck - I hope Kami will be around for a while yet.

Cathy


>
> --
> Margarita Salt
>
> "...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
> entirely good... motives are often more important than
> actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt

-L.
January 19th 06, 01:12 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:
> Well, as I said, she got fluids last night. (One day I'll learn to put
> the needle in straight so she's not lopsided.) She wouldn't eat but
> for some babyfood and those few bites of burger. This morning she ate
> a couple bites of the dried out burger (blech) and some baby food. She
> passed on canned chicken and her own food. I left it all out and sort
> of expected a passed kitty when I got home, but when I came in she had
> finished the portion of baby food, eaten the rest of the burger
> (blech!) and ate probably a few teaspoons of her own food. I stopped
> and got the Fancy Feast Phil suggested and I dish it up and she totally
> gobbled half of it at first pass (she's a come-and-go eater). And I
> gave her some rotisserie chicken skin.
>
> Now, the question is what was it? The fact she had started eating, if
> only a couple of bites, the fluids fixing her up, Fancy Feast, all of
> the above?

All of the above. You are more than likely going to have to keep
nursing her along. I would also pick up some Nutrical from the vet
and see if she will snack on it, as well.


She's perkier and has a vet appointment Friday. I could
> have done a drop-off, which is leave the animal and the vet might fit
> it in somewhere, but she has gotten so upset lately I didn't think that
> was a good idea.

I agree - let us know how it goes. It sucks to have to go through this
with our ailing companion animals - it's the hardest part of having
them in our lives. Hope she stays perky and is feeling better.

-L.

-L.
January 19th 06, 06:52 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:
>
> I'm concerned about the Fancy Feast, though. She's snarfing it again
> this morning, but I'm suspicious of food that doesn't print the Phos
> level on the can. The kidney diets are .08 to .1. But I guess as long
> as she eats it...
>
> --
> Margarita Salt

I wouldn't worry too much at this point - not eating is far more
damaging than phosphorous for as sick as she was. Check out Friskie's
and see if they have the phos. level listed on that as well - some
varieties are "prime filets" and look a lot like the FF varieties. They
are made by the same company, IIRC.
-L.

Charlie Wilkes
January 19th 06, 09:07 PM
On 19 Jan 2006 01:45:54 GMT, Margarita Salt
> wrote:

>
>Now, the question is what was it? The fact she had started eating, if
>only a couple of bites, the fluids fixing her up, Fancy Feast, all of
>the above? She's perkier and has a vet appointment Friday. I could
>have done a drop-off, which is leave the animal and the vet might fit
>it in somewhere, but she has gotten so upset lately I didn't think that
>was a good idea.

I wonder if she picked up a bug at the vet when she went in for her
check-up, and now her system has gotten rid of it.

Anyway, I'm glad she's better!

Charlie

Joe Canuck
January 19th 06, 09:56 PM
Candace wrote:

> Margarita Salt wrote:
>
>
>>Now, the question is what was it? The fact she had started eating, if
>>only a couple of bites, the fluids fixing her up, Fancy Feast, all of
>>the above? She's perkier and has a vet appointment Friday. I could
>>have done a drop-off, which is leave the animal and the vet might fit
>>it in somewhere, but she has gotten so upset lately I didn't think that
>>was a good idea.
>>
>>I'll keep you posted.
>>
>>--
>>Margarita Salt
>>
>>"...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
>>entirely good... motives are often more important than
>>actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt
>
>
> Well, it sounds promising. There is no one here who would wish Kami
> any ill will even if they disagree with you on some points.

Certainly, agreed on that.

> I truly
> hope Kami will be okay and, if she doesn't continue eating, I would
> also suggest--as others have--the Hill's a/d as well as the
> cyproheptadine for an appetite stimulant. Both those things got my
> late cat, Cory, who also had kidney failure, through many a bad
> episode. She may just have been feeling poorly from her kidney
> disease. Cory would be like that sometimes for a few days and then
> bounce back and feel good for a long time. Maybe she just needed the
> fluids or maybe she was nauseous and it passed. Do you ever give her
> famotidine (pepcid) for nausea? I used to give that to Cory on my
> vet's recommendation. I really hope this has passed and Kami will have
> a few more years with you. I know you love her and she sounds like she
> has quite a strong personality.
>
> Candace
>

January 20th 06, 02:41 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:

> I'm concerned about the Fancy Feast, though. She's snarfing it again
> this morning, but I'm suspicious of food that doesn't print the Phos
> level on the can. The kidney diets are .08 to .1. But I guess as long
> as she eats it...

Yes, eating the FF is much better than not eating.

Cathy

>
> --
> Margarita Salt

Rhonda
January 20th 06, 07:03 AM
Hi MS,

Here is a chart with the phosphorous levels on wet food (includes Fancy
Feast):

http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html

Rhonda

Margarita Salt wrote:

>
> I'm concerned about the Fancy Feast, though. She's snarfing it again
> this morning, but I'm suspicious of food that doesn't print the Phos
> level on the can. The kidney diets are .08 to .1. But I guess as long
> as she eats it...
>
>

Rhonda
January 20th 06, 05:00 PM
The chart was last updated 04/05. When did Purina change all of the
phos. levels in Fancy Feast?

Rhonda

wrote:

>
> That chart is old and Fancy Feast changed when Purina bought them out.
>
> -mhd
>

Rhonda
January 20th 06, 05:00 PM
You are welcome.

Rhonda

Margarita Salt wrote:

>
> Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.

January 20th 06, 05:43 PM
Rhonda > wrote:

>The chart was last updated 04/05. When did Purina change all of the
>phos. levels in Fancy Feast?
>
>Rhonda
>
wrote:
>
>>
>> That chart is old and Fancy Feast changed when Purina bought them out.
>>
>> -mhd
>>

Purina took over within the last year. Also the date on the chart does
not guarantee that every food on it was updated at that time. Ideally
every food listed should have a date beside it.

-mhd

Phil P.
January 20th 06, 06:36 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message

> Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.

I said *some* Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. These are the diets:

Marinated Chicken Feast:.0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB)
Marinated Salmon Feast:..0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB)
Seafood Filets Tuna & Oceanfish in Aspic: 0.16% (AF) - 0.72% (DMB)
Minced Beef Feast:..........0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
Sliced Beef Feast:............0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
Marinated Beef Feast:.......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
Grilled Chicken Feast:......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
Grilled Tuna Feast:...........0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast: 0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
Grilled Turkey Feast:........0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
Sliced Chicken Hearts & Liver Feast: 0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)


However, even the low phosphorus Fancy Feast diets might be too high in
protein for a cat with CRF- it depends on her BUN.

CatNipped
January 21st 06, 02:23 AM
I just got an email from Purina in reply to my inquiry about the nutritional
values of all their varieties of Fancy Feast. They asked for my snail mail
address to mail it to. I'll be glad to share this info with the group when
I get it.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

cybercat
January 21st 06, 02:27 AM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> I just got an email from Purina in reply to my inquiry about the
nutritional
> values of all their varieties of Fancy Feast. They asked for my snail
mail
> address to mail it to. I'll be glad to share this info with the group
when
> I get it.
>

Good deal! It is all my girls will eat. They thrive on it, too.

CatNipped
January 21st 06, 02:37 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I just got an email from Purina in reply to my inquiry about the
> nutritional
>> values of all their varieties of Fancy Feast. They asked for my snail
> mail
>> address to mail it to. I'll be glad to share this info with the group
> when
>> I get it.
>>
>
> Good deal! It is all my girls will eat. They thrive on it, too.

Mine too. But the only flavors they'll eat are "Tender Beef Feast",
"Gourmet Chicken Feast", "Turkey and Giblets Feast", and "Tender Liver and
Chicken Feast". IOW they'll only eat the "Gourmet" varieties - they *don't*
like the grilled, sliced, marinated, minced, flaked, chunky, filets, or
*anything* except the "pate" consistency. Ergo, they're probably eating all
the varieties with too much phosphorous, but the low phosphorous varieties
won't do them any good if they won't eat them.

Likewise, they won't eat any other canned food I've tried (Innova, Wellness,
SD, Iams, etc.).

They do also get Science Diet "Senior Advanced Formula" free-fed - but they
get the bulk of their diet from the canned FF (the four of them get 4 3oz
cans every 12 hours, but they never clean their plates).

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

cybercat
January 21st 06, 02:47 AM
"CatNipped" > wrote

>
> Mine too. But the only flavors they'll eat are "Tender Beef Feast",

I think this is the one that Phil refers to as "Minced Beef." This is the
one
I feed the most because it was (at least I think) on his list, and they like
it.


> "Gourmet Chicken Feast", "Turkey and Giblets Feast", and "Tender Liver and
> Chicken Feast". IOW they'll only eat the "Gourmet" varieties - they
*don't*
> like the grilled, sliced, marinated, minced, flaked, chunky, filets, or
> *anything* except the "pate" consistency. Ergo, they're probably eating
all
> the varieties with too much phosphorous, but the low phosphorous varieties
> won't do them any good if they won't eat them.


For a long time, neither of mine would eat anything but "Chopped Grill
Feast,"
the name of which really says nothing more than "MYSTERY MEAT!" Byproducts
is its first ingredient, and it stinks like poo! Now I am happy that they
will eat the
TBF, and sometimes Salmon and the liver varieties.

CatNipped
January 21st 06, 03:14 AM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I just got an email from Purina in reply to my inquiry about the
>> nutritional
>>> values of all their varieties of Fancy Feast. They asked for my snail
>> mail
>>> address to mail it to. I'll be glad to share this info with the group
>> when
>>> I get it.
>>>
>>
>> Good deal! It is all my girls will eat. They thrive on it, too.
>
> Mine too. But the only flavors they'll eat are "Tender Beef Feast",
> "Gourmet Chicken Feast", "Turkey and Giblets Feast", and "Tender Liver and
> Chicken Feast". IOW they'll only eat the "Gourmet" varieties - they
> *don't* like the grilled, sliced, marinated, minced, flaked, chunky,
> filets, or *anything* except the "pate" consistency. Ergo, they're
> probably eating all the varieties with too much phosphorous, but the low
> phosphorous varieties won't do them any good if they won't eat them.
>
> Likewise, they won't eat any other canned food I've tried (Innova,
> Wellness, SD, Iams, etc.).
>
> They do also get Science Diet "Senior Advanced Formula" free-fed - but
> they get the bulk of their diet from the canned FF (the four of them get 4
> 3oz cans every 12 hours, but they never clean their plates).

BTW, none of them are having a problem with failing to thrive on this diet,
*especially* Sammy! ;>

http://www.possibleplaces.com/CatNipped/Jessie17/ (Sammy is on the right,
that's Jessie on the left - and Jessie is a "normal size" cat).

and

http://www.possibleplaces.com/CatNipped/Sammy28/ (I'm sure you've all seen
those crinkly tunnels that most cats can hide completely inside).

We don't call her "Samazon" for nothing! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

> --
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>
> See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/
>
>
>

Joe Canuck
January 21st 06, 03:27 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:

> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>
>>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in
>>message
>>
>>
>>>Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.
>>
>>I said *some* Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. These are
>>the diets:
>>
>>Marinated Chicken Feast:.0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB)
>>Marinated Salmon Feast:..0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB)
>>Seafood Filets Tuna & Oceanfish in Aspic: 0.16% (AF) - 0.72% (DMB)
>>Minced Beef Feast:..........0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
>>Sliced Beef Feast:............0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
>>Marinated Beef Feast:.......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
>>Grilled Chicken Feast:......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
>>Grilled Tuna Feast:...........0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
>>Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast: 0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
>>Grilled Turkey Feast:........0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
>>Sliced Chicken Hearts & Liver Feast: 0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
>>
>>
>>However, even the low phosphorus Fancy Feast diets might be too
>>high in protein for a cat with CRF- it depends on her BUN.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> No, you just said, "...try the Fancy Feast marinated line they're low
> in phos." Not to quibble... I bought several of only the marinated
> line on your say so. Once again you show how no one should just follow
> what you say on blind faith. You're not a vet.
>
>


Then I'd suggest you do your own research, rather than come here
basically pleading for comments and then dissing those who offer
suggestions... because that behavior seems rather troll-like.

January 21st 06, 07:06 AM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>
>"CatNipped" > wrote
>
>>
>> Mine too. But the only flavors they'll eat are "Tender Beef Feast",
>
>I think this is the one that Phil refers to as "Minced Beef." This is the
>one
>I feed the most because it was (at least I think) on his list, and they like
>it.
>
>
>> "Gourmet Chicken Feast", "Turkey and Giblets Feast", and "Tender Liver and
>> Chicken Feast". IOW they'll only eat the "Gourmet" varieties - they
>*don't*
>> like the grilled, sliced, marinated, minced, flaked, chunky, filets, or
>> *anything* except the "pate" consistency. Ergo, they're probably eating
>all
>> the varieties with too much phosphorous, but the low phosphorous varieties
>> won't do them any good if they won't eat them.
>
>
>For a long time, neither of mine would eat anything but "Chopped Grill
>Feast,"
>the name of which really says nothing more than "MYSTERY MEAT!" Byproducts
>is its first ingredient, and it stinks like poo! Now I am happy that they
>will eat the
>TBF, and sometimes Salmon and the liver varieties.
>

My fussy one (almost 16yrs) eats only the Grilled Chicken on a regular
basis. Sometimes a beef variety will interest him for one day then it
gets old real quick with him. He is supposed to be eating KD but he
won't. I'm hoping his slightly elevated Bun was an abnormality and he
is going for another checkup soon.

-mhd

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 10:08 AM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> >
> > "Margarita Salt" > wrote in
> > message
> >
> >> Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.
> >
> > I said *some* Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. These are
> > the diets:
> >
> > Marinated Chicken Feast:.0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB)
> > Marinated Salmon Feast:..0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB)
> > Seafood Filets Tuna & Oceanfish in Aspic: 0.16% (AF) - 0.72% (DMB)
> > Minced Beef Feast:..........0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> > Sliced Beef Feast:............0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> > Marinated Beef Feast:.......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Chicken Feast:......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Tuna Feast:...........0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast: 0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Turkey Feast:........0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> > Sliced Chicken Hearts & Liver Feast: 0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> >
> >
> > However, even the low phosphorus Fancy Feast diets might be too
> > high in protein for a cat with CRF- it depends on her BUN.
> >
> >
> >
>
> No, you just said, "...try the Fancy Feast marinated line they're low
> in phos." Not to quibble... I bought several of only the marinated
> line on your say so.

The marinated diets *are* low in phosphorus, you ignorant asshole- (and I
mean that literally):

http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/Fancy_Feast_Typical_Marinated.pdf



Once again you show how no one should just follow
> what you say on blind faith.


Once again you've showed you're too inept to be entrusted with a cat's life.



> You're not a vet.

Never said I was. But you *are* an asshole.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 10:27 AM
"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
> Margarita Salt wrote:
>
> > Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> >
> >
> >>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in
> >>message
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.
> >>
> >>I said *some* Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. These are
> >>the diets:
> >>
> >>Marinated Chicken Feast:.0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB)
> >>Marinated Salmon Feast:..0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB)
> >>Seafood Filets Tuna & Oceanfish in Aspic: 0.16% (AF) - 0.72% (DMB)
> >>Minced Beef Feast:..........0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> >>Sliced Beef Feast:............0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> >>Marinated Beef Feast:.......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> >>Grilled Chicken Feast:......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> >>Grilled Tuna Feast:...........0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> >>Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast: 0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> >>Grilled Turkey Feast:........0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> >>Sliced Chicken Hearts & Liver Feast: 0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> >>
> >>
> >>However, even the low phosphorus Fancy Feast diets might be too
> >>high in protein for a cat with CRF- it depends on her BUN.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, you just said, "...try the Fancy Feast marinated line they're low
> > in phos." Not to quibble... I bought several of only the marinated
> > line on your say so. Once again you show how no one should just follow
> > what you say on blind faith. You're not a vet.
> >
> >
>
>
> Then I'd suggest you do your own research, rather than come here
> basically pleading for comments and then dissing those who offer
> suggestions... because that behavior seems rather troll-like.


She doesn't have time to research her cat's illness because she's too busy
playing in the gossip and porn newsgroups.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 11:02 AM
"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
> Hi MS,
>
> Here is a chart with the phosphorous levels on wet food (includes Fancy
> Feast):
>
> http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
>
> Rhonda

The chart doesn't list the marinated line:

http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/Fancy_Feast_Typical_Marinated.pdf

Margarita Salt
January 21st 06, 12:40 PM
Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

>
> "Rhonda" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi MS,
>>
>> Here is a chart with the phosphorous levels on wet food (includes
>> Fancy Feast):
>>
>> http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
>>
>> Rhonda
>
> The chart doesn't list the marinated line:
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/Fancy_Feast_Typical_Marinated.pd
> f
>
>
>
>

Phil, face it, you said simply the marinated line, and you did not
provide this info. Clearly only two of the line are low in phos and
other varieties are lower than the rest of the line. You didn't say
"some" as you claimed, you provided no link, and you expect people to
trust exactly what you say. As usual, you deny and backpeddle when
called on it even though your errors are easily available.

Next time you give unsolicited advice, make sure it's accurate. I
never should have trusted you, and no one else should either.

--
Margarita Salt

"...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
entirely good... motives are often more important than
actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt

Joe Canuck
January 21st 06, 01:51 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>
>>"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Hi MS,
>>>
>>>Here is a chart with the phosphorous levels on wet food (includes
>>>Fancy Feast):
>>>
>>>http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
>>>
>>>Rhonda
>>
>>The chart doesn't list the marinated line:
>>
>>http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/Fancy_Feast_Typical_Marinated.pd
>>f
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Phil, face it, you said simply the marinated line, and you did not
> provide this info. Clearly only two of the line are low in phos and
> other varieties are lower than the rest of the line. You didn't say
> "some" as you claimed, you provided no link, and you expect people to
> trust exactly what you say. As usual, you deny and backpeddle when
> called on it even though your errors are easily available.
>
> Next time you give unsolicited advice, make sure it's accurate. I
> never should have trusted you, and no one else should either.
>

Unsolicited?

I suggest you re-read your original post in this thread.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 02:04 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> >
> > "Rhonda" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hi MS,
> >>
> >> Here is a chart with the phosphorous levels on wet food (includes
> >> Fancy Feast):
> >>
> >> http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html
> >>
> >> Rhonda
> >
> > The chart doesn't list the marinated line:
> >
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/nutrition/Fancy_Feast_Typical_Marinated.pd
> > f
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Phil, face it, you said simply the marinated line, and you did not
> provide this info.


I posted the list of low phosphous Fancy Feast diets *many* times. Lean to
comprehend- or are all of your brain cells fried? (Rhetorical question)


Clearly only two of the line are low in phos and
> other varieties are lower than the rest of the line.


Three (0.18%, 0.09%, 0.13%) diets in the marinated line are low in
phosphorus, the other two are acceptable (0.22%) if the cat won't eat
anything else.


You didn't say
> "some" as you claimed, you provided no link, and you expect people to
> trust exactly what you say.

You're statement "Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos" implied
that I said all Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. The marinated line
and some diets in the other lines *are* some of the Fancy Feast diets that
are low in phosphorus. I posted the list, along with links of Fancy Feast
diets that are low in phosphorus *many* times. You can't remember because
your brain is fried.


As usual, you deny and backpeddle when
> called on it even though your errors are easily available.


LOL! I don't think so. You're trying to sleaze out of looking stupid- its a
bit too late.




> Next time you give unsolicited advice,


"Unsolicited"? LOL! You really are a manipulating sleaze. Does "but she's
not eating and not interested. Ideas?" ring a bell? Sure sounds like
you're soliciting advice to me.


> make sure it's accurate.


Oh, my information *is* accurate. You're just to stupid to realize it.


Gee, you said you kill-filed me about 100 times. Now we can add *liar* to
your list of accolades

PawsForThought
January 21st 06, 04:09 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Joe Canuck" <
> > Then I'd suggest you do your own research, rather than come here
> > basically pleading for comments and then dissing those who offer
> > suggestions... because that behavior seems rather troll-like.
>
>
> She doesn't have time to research her cat's illness because she's too busy
> playing in the gossip and porn newsgroups.

Not surprising considering she's the person that declawed her cat
rather than train and trim claws.

cybercat
January 21st 06, 05:31 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"CatNipped" > wrote
> >
> >For a long time, neither of mine would eat anything but "Chopped Grill
> >Feast,"
> >the name of which really says nothing more than "MYSTERY MEAT!"
Byproducts
> >is its first ingredient, and it stinks like poo! Now I am happy that they
> >will eat the
> >TBF, and sometimes Salmon and the liver varieties.
> >
>
> My fussy one (almost 16yrs) eats only the Grilled Chicken on a regular
> basis. Sometimes a beef variety will interest him for one day then it
> gets old real quick with him.

They can be so funny. Gracie will go for days eating only Salmon Feast,
leaving nothing on the saucer. Then she will eat a few bites and refuse
the rest of it. (This little cat is so polite, any time I pick her up and
put her at the dish she will make an effort to eat! But when she is off
on a flavor she will just take a tiny taste and run away.) So then we
are back to Tender Beef Feast.


>He is supposed to be eating KD but he
> won't. I'm hoping his slightly elevated Bun was an abnormality and he
> is going for another checkup soon.
>

I hope it was an abnormality, and that it shows at this checkup.
Hey, have you posted photos of your cats? I always love to
see who I am talking about.

Joe Canuck
January 21st 06, 05:40 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:

> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>
>>I posted the list of low phosphous Fancy Feast diets *many* times.
>> Lean to comprehend- or are all of your brain cells fried?
>>(Rhetorical question)
>
>
> BTW, you forget you've been killfiled and it doesn't matter how many
> times you post something, I would not have seen it. Even if you
> weren't plonked, don't be so arrogant to assume that everyone reads all
> of your screed.
>
>
>
>>You're statement "Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos"
>>implied that I said all Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus.
>>The marinated line and some diets in the other lines *are* some of
>>the Fancy Feast diets that are low in phosphorus. I posted the
>>list, along with links of Fancy Feast diets that are low in
>>phosphorus *many* times. You can't remember because your brain is
>>fried.
>
>
> It was clear by that time that under discussion was the marinated line.
> Thanks for the updated info, but "thanks a lot" for the faulty info
> that led me to purchase and feed the wrong flavors.
>
>
>
>
>

After reading this and other comments, I have to wonder if this whole
thread wasn't an elaborate troll.

You say your cat has the best vet in the world, well go there for advice
from now on rather than posting here simply to stir things up for your
own entertainment.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 06:15 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> > I posted the list of low phosphous Fancy Feast diets *many* times.
> > Lean to comprehend- or are all of your brain cells fried?
> > (Rhetorical question)
>
> BTW, you forget you've been killfiled and it doesn't matter how many
> times you post something, I would not have seen it.


Bull****. Even if I was kill-filed, you'd still see my posts in other
peoples' replies. You manage to see all my other posts.


Even if you
> weren't plonked, don't be so arrogant to assume that everyone reads all
> of your screed.


Well, *you* obviously read my posts.

>
>
> > You're statement "Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos"
> > implied that I said all Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus.
> > The marinated line and some diets in the other lines *are* some of
> > the Fancy Feast diets that are low in phosphorus. I posted the
> > list, along with links of Fancy Feast diets that are low in
> > phosphorus *many* times. You can't remember because your brain is
> > fried.
>
> It was clear by that time that under discussion was the marinated line.

You can't sleaze out of this one. You implied I said all Fancy Feast diets
are low in phosphorus.


> Thanks for the updated info,

Don't thank me- I was trying to help your cat- not you.


but "thanks a lot" for the faulty info
> that led me to purchase and feed the wrong flavors.

I'd like to lead you off a cliff- but not your cat. So out of 5 flavors,
you picked the two that were higher in phosphorus than the rest? I don't
think so, sleaze. I think you conjured up this story to try to discredit me
because I said you're an animal abuser-- among other things. The Tuna
Feast and Turkey Feast phosphorus levels are *still* acceptable if she isn't
eating. So sleaze, your little ruse didn't work.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 06:16 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> >
> > Gee, you said you kill-filed me about 100 times. Now we can add
> > *liar* to your list of accolades
> >
>
> I'm not a liar. I changed my nick, and I had special settings in my
> newsreader

Bull****.


I'm MORE than happy to start loading it again.
> Congrats! You're number one!


Yeah sure. You don't kill-file anybody. You just have to know what people
say about you-- that's why you hang out in the porn and gossip groups.

Phil P.
January 21st 06, 06:17 PM
"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
> Margarita Salt wrote:

> After reading this and other comments, I have to wonder if this whole
> thread wasn't an elaborate troll.
>
> You say your cat has the best vet in the world,


Yeah- that's the vet that didn't know about inhalation therapy for asthmatic
cats.


well go there for advice
> from now on rather than posting here simply to stir things up for your
> own entertainment.

Attention not entertainment. The has-been still craves attention. That's
why she titled her post "Kami may be dying" instead of "Kami won't eat" or
"How do I make Kami eat"- "Kami may be dying" is more dramatic and more
likely to evoke sympathy. What a sleaze- playing on peoples' emotions.

January 21st 06, 09:17 PM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>Hey, have you posted photos of your cats? I always love to
>see who I am talking about.

I never could be bothered to set up a photo album at one of those
sites. I usually post pictures regarding other interests I have in a
sub directory of my company website, but obviously I would not reveal
that to this group :-)

-mhd

cybercat
January 21st 06, 09:39 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> >Hey, have you posted photos of your cats? I always love to
> >see who I am talking about.
>
> I never could be bothered to set up a photo album at one of those
> sites. I usually post pictures regarding other interests I have in a
> sub directory of my company website, but obviously I would not reveal
> that to this group :-)
>
> -mhd

Well, I cannot imagine why NOT! lmao

If you ever post a site, or find yourself willing to send some via email,
let me know. This email works.
(If not I do understand, believe me!) :)

CatNipped
January 21st 06, 09:43 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>>Hey, have you posted photos of your cats? I always love to
>>see who I am talking about.
>
> I never could be bothered to set up a photo album at one of those
> sites. I usually post pictures regarding other interests I have in a
> sub directory of my company website, but obviously I would not reveal
> that to this group :-)
>
> -mhd

I have my own web site with gigabytes of unused space, so I'll extend my
offer here as it is in rpca, if you'd like to post a picture for the group
to see, just email it to me and I'll put it up and send you the URL.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

Charlie Wilkes
January 22nd 06, 01:17 AM
On 21 Jan 2006 15:46:05 GMT, Margarita Salt
> wrote:

>Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
>> I posted the list of low phosphous Fancy Feast diets *many* times.
>> Lean to comprehend- or are all of your brain cells fried?
>> (Rhetorical question)
>
>BTW, you forget you've been killfiled and it doesn't matter how many
>times you post something, I would not have seen it. Even if you
>weren't plonked, don't be so arrogant to assume that everyone reads all
>of your screed.
>
>
>> You're statement "Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos"
>> implied that I said all Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus.
>> The marinated line and some diets in the other lines *are* some of
>> the Fancy Feast diets that are low in phosphorus. I posted the
>> list, along with links of Fancy Feast diets that are low in
>> phosphorus *many* times. You can't remember because your brain is
>> fried.
>
>It was clear by that time that under discussion was the marinated line.
>Thanks for the updated info, but "thanks a lot" for the faulty info
>that led me to purchase and feed the wrong flavors.
>
**** happens, eh? But I'm glad to hear that Kami is feeling better.

Charlie

Phil P.
January 22nd 06, 08:19 AM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
>
> It wouldn't hurt him to say, "Sorry, I should have been
> more specific."

I didn't have to be more specific- *you* should have been more specific and
asked which particular flavors I recommended.

You said: "Dr. Tina said to give Kami WHATEVER she wanted to eat. It was
more important that she right now than WHAT she ate." The two highest
phosphorus diets in the marinated line are only 0.22% which is totally
acceptable for a cat that is not eating.


Didn't you say:

From: "Brandy Alexandre" >
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: My cat like lasagna

> You have yet to tell me where these sites are and provide any
> quotations. I can only rely on information I can confirm, not on your
> hearsay.

And yet you say you ran out and bought the wrong flavors without confirming
the information. Looks like you caught yourself in another one of your
bull**** drama stories.


Why did you even bother asking for advice here? Aren't you the asshole who
said:

From: "Brandy Alexandre" >
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: My cat like lasagna

I suggest everyone else on this board
> consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.

So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
cat.

PawsForThought
January 22nd 06, 04:25 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
I suggest everyone else on this board
> > consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
>
> So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
> trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
> craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
> cat.

I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.

Rhonda
January 22nd 06, 06:13 PM
PawsForThought wrote:

> Phil P. wrote:
>
>>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
>>
> I suggest everyone else on this board
>
>>>consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
>>>
>>So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
>>trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
>>craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
>>cat.
>>
>
> I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
> cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
> is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
> company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.


I think that's the point that she's making -- never totally trust advice
on a newsgroup, even if they come off sounding like an expert. Go right
to the source.

Rhonda

---MIKE---
January 22nd 06, 06:39 PM
Rhonda,

Again I think you are off-base. Phil is not a vet BUT he knows a lot
more about cats than most vets do. I don't always like his
confrontational attitude but his advice is always on the mark. If you
don't trust his advice, why ask on a news group at all?


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

NMR
January 22nd 06, 08:40 PM
"---MIKE---" > wrote in message
...
Rhonda,

Again I think you are off-base. Phil is not a vet BUT he knows a lot
more about cats than most vets do. I don't always like his
confrontational attitude but his advice is always on the mark. If you
don't trust his advice, why ask on a news group at all?



Well said Mike

Rhonda
January 22nd 06, 08:59 PM
Mike, everyone has their opinions of different people and I have my
reasons. I don't agree that Phil knows more than most vets. I think Phil
has experience with cats and has lots of medical reference books which
he uses to answer posts. That's not a bad thing, but it is (IMO) if you
don't quote your source -- if you say it like it just popped into your
head.

I also think it's dangerous to give medical advice over the internet,
even if you are a vet. Good vets don't diagnose a problem without seeing
the animal. You can make suggestions over the internet or say "my cat
had this" or "ask your vet about this" -- it's all personal experience,
not medical diagnosis.

As for asking on the internet, it's just one source. I do lots of web
searches and ask animal-experienced people (on the internet and in
person). I don't ever rely on one person's response when I don't even
know them.

Enjoy your day,

Rhonda

---MIKE--- wrote:

> Rhonda,
>
> Again I think you are off-base. Phil is not a vet BUT he knows a lot
> more about cats than most vets do. I don't always like his
> confrontational attitude but his advice is always on the mark. If you
> don't trust his advice, why ask on a news group at all?
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>>>
> >> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>

Joe Canuck
January 22nd 06, 09:13 PM
Rhonda wrote:

> Mike, everyone has their opinions of different people and I have my
> reasons. I don't agree that Phil knows more than most vets. I think Phil
> has experience with cats and has lots of medical reference books which
> he uses to answer posts. That's not a bad thing, but it is (IMO) if you
> don't quote your source -- if you say it like it just popped into your
> head.
>
> I also think it's dangerous to give medical advice over the internet,
> even if you are a vet. Good vets don't diagnose a problem without seeing
> the animal. You can make suggestions over the internet or say "my cat
> had this" or "ask your vet about this" -- it's all personal experience,
> not medical diagnosis.
>
> As for asking on the internet, it's just one source. I do lots of web
> searches and ask animal-experienced people (on the internet and in
> person). I don't ever rely on one person's response when I don't even
> know them.
>
> Enjoy your day,
>
> Rhonda


....in the meantime Brandy is sitting back giggling over the fuss she has
created.

It is just one source when you contact a company asking for the
nutritional profile of their food as well. Do you trust that or seek the
analysis of an independant laboratory?





>
> ---MIKE--- wrote:
>
>> Rhonda,
>>
>> Again I think you are off-base. Phil is not a vet BUT he knows a lot
>> more about cats than most vets do. I don't always like his
>> confrontational attitude but his advice is always on the mark. If you
>> don't trust his advice, why ask on a news group at all?
>>
>>
>> ---MIKE---
>>
>>>> In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>>>>
>> >> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>>
>>
>

Phil P.
January 22nd 06, 10:08 PM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > "Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
> I suggest everyone else on this board
> > > consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
> >
> > So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
> > trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
> > craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
> > cat.
>
> I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
> cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
> is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
> company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.

Her little drama is all bull****. Think about it. She's broadcasted she
kill-filed me at least 100 times and has told people time and again not to
listen me. Now, all of a sudden, she says she took my advice and it was
bad? LOL!

Phil P.
January 22nd 06, 10:11 PM
"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
> Mike, everyone has their opinions of different people and I have my
> reasons.

Yeah- you don't like my LOLs and you don't like them so much that you went
through my 6 year-old
posts trying to find something else that annoyed you! LOL! You have some
issues,
don't you? Or are you just a malicious asshole? (Rhetorical questions).


> I don't agree that Phil knows more than most vets.


At least I- and everyone one on the Feline Asthma group obviously know more
than Brandy's vet. How many vets have given posters bogus information that
was corrected here and not only by me?



I think Phil
> has experience with cats and has lots of medical reference books


That's right. I have an extensive vet med library along with subscriptions.
I started researching every feline illness we came in contact with after we
lost several cats because the vets prescribed the wrong medications or
treatment or gave us bad or outdated information.


which
> he uses to answer posts.


---which I use to *confirm* and *verify* my information if I'm not
absolutely sure.



That's not a bad thing, but it is (IMO) if you
> don't quote your source -- if you say it like it just popped into your
> head.

Like you do? For a travel agent, you seem to dole out a lot of advice.
Where exactly does your fountain of knowledge about cats come from?
Obviously is not from experience.

Well, bimbo, after >40 years of working with cats, vets, and labs, and
treating almost every feline disease known to Catdom, most of my information
*does* just pop into my head. Most people who see, hear, and do the same
things day in and day out for decades have the same ability. Since that
seems unusual to you, I'd bet you have to be re-trained in your job after
every 15 minute coffee break! LOL!


>
> I also think it's dangerous to give medical advice over the internet,

Then why do *you* give advice you sleazy, ****ing, malicious hypocrite?

Joe Canuck
January 22nd 06, 11:08 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> "PawsForThought" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Phil P. wrote:
>>
>>>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
>>
>>I suggest everyone else on this board
>>
>>>>consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
>>>
>>>So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
>>>trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
>>>craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
>>>cat.
>>
>>I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
>>cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
>>is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
>>company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.
>
>
> Her little drama is all bull****. Think about it. She's broadcasted she
> kill-filed me at least 100 times and has told people time and again not to
> listen me. Now, all of a sudden, she says she took my advice and it was
> bad? LOL!
>
>
>
>
>

It is interesting to note that Brandy posted about Kami in
alt.gossip.celebrities *2* days before coming here asking for 'advice'.

Phil P.
January 23rd 06, 12:23 AM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...


I came in she had
> finished the portion of baby food, eaten the rest of the burger
> (blech!) and ate probably a few teaspoons of her own food. I stopped
> and got the Fancy Feast Phil suggested and I dish it up and she totally
> gobbled half of it at first pass (she's a come-and-go eater).

Thanks for letting me know my advice was helpful and accurate. I'm happy
she's eating a balanced feline diet instead of baby food and dried out
burgers.

Phil P.
January 23rd 06, 12:24 AM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> >
> > "Margarita Salt" > wrote in
> > message
> >
> >> Yikes! Phil said the Fancy Feast was low phos. Thanks for this.
> >
> > I said *some* Fancy Feast diets are low in phosphorus. These are
> > the diets:
> >
> > Marinated Chicken Feast:.0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB)
> > Marinated Salmon Feast:..0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB)
> > Seafood Filets Tuna & Oceanfish in Aspic: 0.16% (AF) - 0.72% (DMB)
> > Minced Beef Feast:..........0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> > Sliced Beef Feast:............0.17% (AF) - 0.77% (DMB)
> > Marinated Beef Feast:.......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Chicken Feast:......0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Tuna Feast:...........0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast: 0.18% (AF) - 0.81% (DMB)
> > Grilled Turkey Feast:........0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> > Sliced Chicken Hearts & Liver Feast: 0.21% (AF) - 0.95% (DMB)
> >
> >
> > However, even the low phosphorus Fancy Feast diets might be too
> > high in protein for a cat with CRF- it depends on her BUN.
> >
> >
> >
>
> No, you just said, "...try the Fancy Feast marinated line they're low
> in phos." Not to quibble... I bought several of only the marinated
> line on your say so.

Once again you show how no one should just follow
> what you say on blind faith. You're not a vet.


Your vet couldn't recommend a cat food that would get her eating again,
could she? All she said was "give Kami WHATEVER she wanted to eat. It was
more important that she right now than WHAT she ate.".

You were feeding her dried out burgers and baby food-- which is *very* high
in calcium and phosphorus which infants need a lot of for bone growth- and
you're trying to make an issue of the 0.22% phosphorus content of 2 of the 5
FF marinated diets? LOL! I couldn't have made a bigger fool of you than you
have yourself!

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 12:35 AM
Phil P. wrote:

> "Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> I came in she had
>
>>finished the portion of baby food, eaten the rest of the burger
>>(blech!) and ate probably a few teaspoons of her own food. I stopped
>>and got the Fancy Feast Phil suggested and I dish it up and she totally
>>gobbled half of it at first pass (she's a come-and-go eater).
>
>
> Thanks for letting me know my advice was helpful and accurate. I'm happy
> she's eating a balanced feline diet instead of baby food and dried out
> burgers.
>
>
>

Isn't it Brandy that is consuming the baby food and dried out burgers?

:-D

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 03:14 AM
Rhonda wrote:
> PawsForThought wrote:
>
> > Phil P. wrote:
> >
> >>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
> >>
> > I suggest everyone else on this board
> >
> >>>consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
> >>>
> >>So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****. You're just
> >>trying to create an issue because you're a pathetic washed-up has-been
> >>craving for attention and sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your
> >>cat.
> >>
> >
> > I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
> > cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
> > is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
> > company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.
>
>
> I think that's the point that she's making -- never totally trust advice
> on a newsgroup, even if they come off sounding like an expert. Go right
> to the source.
>
> Rhonda

But she's not doing that. Instead she comes here, posts a title that
her cat may be dying (instead of saying she won't eat), then when
information is provided to her, she bashes the person. If she doesn't
like the information she gets, she should have contacted the pet food
company in the first place. Did she ever thank Phil or anyone else who
tried to help her cat? Once again, unfortunately, her cat loses
because she finds it more important to get attention for herself.

-L.
January 23rd 06, 03:36 AM
Rhonda wrote:
> Mike, everyone has their opinions of different people and I have my
> reasons. I don't agree that Phil knows more than most vets.

Agreed - that's a ridiculous statement. He does have more experience
in managing certain conditions or disease states than some vets, though
- that's for sure. He has a lot of experience and that experience is
valuable for the reasons stated below.


> I think Phil
> has experience with cats and has lots of medical reference books which
> he uses to answer posts. That's not a bad thing, but it is (IMO) if you
> don't quote your source -- if you say it like it just popped into your
> head.

That's one of my beefs with Phil as well.

>
> I also think it's dangerous to give medical advice over the internet,
> even if you are a vet. Good vets don't diagnose a problem without seeing
> the animal. You can make suggestions over the internet or say "my cat
> had this" or "ask your vet about this" -- it's all personal experience,
> not medical diagnosis.

That's pretty much a no-brainer. I don't know of a vet that does give
advice on the 'net - even those who participate in sci.med.veterinary
don't. Too much liability. OTOH, vets don't always tell you
everything you need to know, or don't always tell you of all options.
That's why personal experience of others is valuable.


>
> As for asking on the internet, it's just one source. I do lots of web
> searches and ask animal-experienced people (on the internet and in
> person). I don't ever rely on one person's response when I don't even
> know them.

I usually don't even rely solely on one vet's opinion.

-L.

NMR
January 23rd 06, 03:43 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Rhonda wrote:
>> Mike, everyone has their opinions of different people and I have my
>> reasons. I don't agree that Phil knows more than most vets.
>
> Agreed - that's a ridiculous statement. He does have more experience
> in managing certain conditions or disease states than some vets, though
> - that's for sure. He has a lot of experience and that experience is
> valuable for the reasons stated below.
>
>
>> I think Phil
>> has experience with cats and has lots of medical reference books which
>> he uses to answer posts. That's not a bad thing, but it is (IMO) if you
>> don't quote your source -- if you say it like it just popped into your
>> head.
>
> That's one of my beefs with Phil as well.
>
>>
>> I also think it's dangerous to give medical advice over the internet,
>> even if you are a vet. Good vets don't diagnose a problem without seeing
>> the animal. You can make suggestions over the internet or say "my cat
>> had this" or "ask your vet about this" -- it's all personal experience,
>> not medical diagnosis.
>
> That's pretty much a no-brainer. I don't know of a vet that does give
> advice on the 'net - even those who participate in sci.med.veterinary
> don't. Too much liability. OTOH, vets don't always tell you
> everything you need to know, or don't always tell you of all options.
> That's why personal experience of others is valuable.
>
>
>>
>> As for asking on the internet, it's just one source. I do lots of web
>> searches and ask animal-experienced people (on the internet and in
>> person). I don't ever rely on one person's response when I don't even
>> know them.
>
> I usually don't even rely solely on one vet's opinion.
>
> -L.

I must be drunk L actually is on Phil's side

No No I know what it is the sky is falling yes that must be it

:-)
<just kidding caught me off guard>

January 23rd 06, 05:51 AM
"Phil P." > wrote:

>That's right. I have an extensive vet med library along with subscriptions.
>I started researching every feline illness we came in contact with after we
>lost several cats because the vets prescribed the wrong medications or
>treatment or gave us bad or outdated information.

If only some vets read their books as often as you do. After all where
do people think vets got their info from - from books in school of
course. A good vet doesn't stop there and tries to keep up to date but
it is a daunting task when they treat multiple species.

Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
animals and sends them home early) has her branded as a real bitch by
anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.

-mhd

NMR
January 23rd 06, 06:19 AM
> wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>>That's right. I have an extensive vet med library along with
>>subscriptions.
>>I started researching every feline illness we came in contact with after
>>we
>>lost several cats because the vets prescribed the wrong medications or
>>treatment or gave us bad or outdated information.
>
> If only some vets read their books as often as you do. After all where
> do people think vets got their info from - from books in school of
> course. A good vet doesn't stop there and tries to keep up to date but
> it is a daunting task when they treat multiple species.
>
> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
> animals and sends them home early) has her branded as a real bitch by
> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.
>
> -mhd

How many times has someone come to the newsgroup and questioned a medicine
dosage or a type of treatment only to be given the correct information from
a NON VET while they had been given information that could have potentially
harmed their furball

January 23rd 06, 06:55 AM
"NMR" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> "Phil P." > wrote:
>>
>>>That's right. I have an extensive vet med library along with
>>>subscriptions.
>>>I started researching every feline illness we came in contact with after
>>>we
>>>lost several cats because the vets prescribed the wrong medications or
>>>treatment or gave us bad or outdated information.
>>
>> If only some vets read their books as often as you do. After all where
>> do people think vets got their info from - from books in school of
>> course. A good vet doesn't stop there and tries to keep up to date but
>> it is a daunting task when they treat multiple species.
>>
>> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
>> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
>> animals and sends them home early) has her branded as a real bitch by
>> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.
>>
>> -mhd
>
>How many times has someone come to the newsgroup and questioned a medicine
>dosage or a type of treatment only to be given the correct information from
>a NON VET while they had been given information that could have potentially
>harmed their furball
>


Too often.

-mhd

Rhonda
January 23rd 06, 06:57 AM
PawsForThought wrote:

> Rhonda wrote:
>
>> PawsForThought wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Phil P. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Margarita Salt" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I suggest everyone else on this board
>>>
>>>
>>>>> consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****.
>>>> You're just trying to create an issue because you're a
>>>> pathetic washed-up has-been craving for attention and
>>>> sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your cat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility
>>> what her cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible
>>> for Brandy's cat is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's
>>> really simple to contact the company that makes the catfood and
>>> find out the phosphorous content.
>>>
>>
>> I think that's the point that she's making -- never totally trust
>> advice on a newsgroup, even if they come off sounding like an
>> expert. Go right to the source.
>>
>> Rhonda
>>
>
> But she's not doing that. Instead she comes here, posts a title that
her cat may be dying (instead of saying she won't eat), then when
> information is provided to her, she bashes the person. If she doesn't
> like the information she gets, she should have contacted the pet food
> company in the first place. Did she ever thank Phil or anyone else who
> tried to help her cat? Once again, unfortunately, her cat loses
> because she finds it more important to get attention for herself.

I didn't follow the part about getting attention for herself. I saw a
desperate person scared about


> > her cat may be dying (instead of saying she won't eat), then when
information
> is provided to her, she bashes the person. If she doesn't like
> the information she gets, she should have contacted the pet food company
> in the first place. Did she ever thank Phil or anyone else who tried
> to help her cat? Once again, unfortunately, her cat loses because
> she finds it more important to get attention for herself.

I didn't follow the part about getting attention for herself. I saw a
desperate person scared about their cat, looking for opinions on whether
her cat was trying to tell her she wanted to die.

As for Brandy not thanking people, I didn't notice it. It is polite to
thank everyone who tried to help, but I never expect it from someone
who's afraid their cat might die. It's nice after the crisis is over
when someone puts up a thank you post.

We each pass our own judgments on other posters, I'll be the first to
say that I do it too. Life is short, and if a poster continually gets
under my skin, I just stop reading their posts.

Rhonda

-L.
January 23rd 06, 07:33 AM
wrote:
<snip>

> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
> animals and sends them home early)

Just a comment..."difficult" cats may recover much better at home.
While it may seem the cat is being sent home "too early" the stress of
keeping the cat in a cage at the vet and having it handled by strangers
may actually hinder the healing process. So in some instances where
the guardian is competent enough to administer meds, fluids, etc. it
may be in the best interest of the cat to send it home to continue its
recovery.


> has her branded as a real bitch by
> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.

Some vets have no bedside manner, that's for sure. You can tell a lot
about the personality of the vet by the competency of the staff he or
she can keep. If there is a high turn-over rate for the vet techs and
receptionists, the vet probably is an asshole to work with, and
probably not good with clients, either.

-L.

-L.
January 23rd 06, 07:34 AM
wrote:
<snip>

> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
> animals and sends them home early)

Just a comment..."difficult" cats may recover much better at home.
While it may seem the cat is being sent home "too early" the stress of
keeping the cat in a cage at the vet and having it handled by strangers
may actually hinder the healing process. So in some instances where
the guardian is competent enough to administer meds, fluids, etc. it
may be in the best interest of the cat to send it home to continue its
recovery.


> has her branded as a real bitch by
> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.

Some vets have no bedside manner, that's for sure. You can tell a lot
about the personality of the vet by the competency of the staff he or
she can keep. If there is a high turn-over rate for the vet techs and
receptionists, the vet probably is an asshole to work with, and
probably not good with clients, either.

-L.

-L.
January 23rd 06, 07:34 AM
wrote:
<snip>

> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
> animals and sends them home early)

Just a comment..."difficult" cats may recover much better at home.
While it may seem the cat is being sent home "too early" the stress of
keeping the cat in a cage at the vet and having it handled by strangers
may actually hinder the healing process. So in some instances where
the guardian is competent enough to administer meds, fluids, etc. it
may be in the best interest of the cat to send it home to continue its
recovery.


> has her branded as a real bitch by
> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.

Some vets have no bedside manner, that's for sure. You can tell a lot
about the personality of the vet by the competency of the staff he or
she can keep. If there is a high turn-over rate for the vet techs and
receptionists, the vet probably is an asshole to work with, and
probably not good with clients, either.

-L.

Phil P.
January 23rd 06, 07:46 AM
> wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
> >That's right. I have an extensive vet med library along with
subscriptions.
> >I started researching every feline illness we came in contact with after
we
> >lost several cats because the vets prescribed the wrong medications or
> >treatment or gave us bad or outdated information.
>
> If only some vets read their books as often as you do. After all where
> do people think vets got their info from - from books in school of
> course. A good vet doesn't stop there and tries to keep up to date but
> it is a daunting task when they treat multiple species.

I can't remember all the details of every disease I've dealt with in 40
years. So, of course I have to look up some stuff--so does my vet and he's a
retired vet professor. A vet who doesn't look up some information about
certain diseases makes me very nervous.

>
> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
> animals and sends them home early) has her branded as a real bitch by
> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.


A lot of people mistake good bedside manners with expertise. "S/he is so
nice" doesn't necessarily mean s/he's a good vet- and vice versa.
Unfortunately, most people don't know what to look for or how to evaluate a
vet's expertise. Many people learn the hard way- after irreversible damage
has been done or they find out their cat would have lived if the vet treated
her properly.

Phil

Phil P.
January 23rd 06, 07:46 AM
"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
>
> I didn't follow the part about getting attention for herself. I saw a
> desperate person scared about their cat, looking for opinions on whether
> her cat was trying to tell her she wanted to die.


Then you're gullible, naive, stupid or a liar--- My money is on the latter.



>
> As for Brandy not thanking people, I didn't notice it. It is polite to
> thank everyone who tried to help, but I never expect it from someone
> who's afraid their cat might die. It's nice after the crisis is over
> when someone puts up a thank you post.
>
> We each pass our own judgments on other posters, I'll be the first to
> say that I do it too. Life is short, and if a poster continually gets
> under my skin, I just stop reading their posts.

....but you don't stop trying to badmouth them, eh? Lying hypocrite.

Maybe if I try to get a little deeper under your skin, you'll stop trying to
badmouth me too, you malicious, lying hypocrite.

-L.
January 23rd 06, 08:12 AM
NMR wrote:
> I must be drunk L actually is on Phil's side

I'm not on anyone's "side".

>
> No No I know what it is the sky is falling yes that must be it
>
> :-)
> <just kidding caught me off guard>

Shouldn't. :)

-L.

-L.
January 23rd 06, 09:27 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:
>
> Now, if I can get her to sit still for some matt snipping... That bath
> two weeks ago did a number.

Did you bathe her or did you have someone do it? A long-haired cat
should always be dematted and combed thoroughly with a comb to remove
the loose undercoat before bathing. Bathing shouldn't cause matting if
done properly. So, if you had it done, I wouldn't go back to them...
-L.

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 11:56 AM
Rhonda wrote:
> PawsForThought wrote:
>
> > Rhonda wrote:
> >
> >> PawsForThought wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Phil P. wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> "Margarita Salt" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I suggest everyone else on this board
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> consult a real vet instead of the Usenet wannabes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> So, why didn't *you*? Your little drama is total bull****.
> >>>> You're just trying to create an issue because you're a
> >>>> pathetic washed-up has-been craving for attention and
> >>>> sympathy. The only who deserves pity is your cat.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility
> >>> what her cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible
> >>> for Brandy's cat is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's
> >>> really simple to contact the company that makes the catfood and
> >>> find out the phosphorous content.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I think that's the point that she's making -- never totally trust
> >> advice on a newsgroup, even if they come off sounding like an
> >> expert. Go right to the source.
> >>
> >> Rhonda
> >>
> >
> > But she's not doing that. Instead she comes here, posts a title that
> her cat may be dying (instead of saying she won't eat), then when
> > information is provided to her, she bashes the person. If she doesn't
> > like the information she gets, she should have contacted the pet food
> > company in the first place. Did she ever thank Phil or anyone else who
> > tried to help her cat? Once again, unfortunately, her cat loses
> > because she finds it more important to get attention for herself.
>
> I didn't follow the part about getting attention for herself. I saw a
> desperate person scared about
>

Uhmmm, one would think a desperate person would have posted about the
situation in here *before* going to the celebrities newsgroup to talk
about it.

Whatdayathink eh?

That is a huge clue as to what is really going on here.


>
> > > her cat may be dying (instead of saying she won't eat), then when
> information
> > is provided to her, she bashes the person. If she doesn't like
> > the information she gets, she should have contacted the pet food company
> > in the first place. Did she ever thank Phil or anyone else who tried
> > to help her cat? Once again, unfortunately, her cat loses because
> > she finds it more important to get attention for herself.
>
> I didn't follow the part about getting attention for herself. I saw a
> desperate person scared about their cat, looking for opinions on whether
> her cat was trying to tell her she wanted to die.
>
> As for Brandy not thanking people, I didn't notice it. It is polite to
> thank everyone who tried to help, but I never expect it from someone
> who's afraid their cat might die. It's nice after the crisis is over
> when someone puts up a thank you post.
>
> We each pass our own judgments on other posters, I'll be the first to
> say that I do it too. Life is short, and if a poster continually gets
> under my skin, I just stop reading their posts.
>
> Rhonda
>
>
>
>

January 23rd 06, 04:49 PM
"-L." > wrote:

>
wrote:
><snip>
>
>> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
>> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
>> animals and sends them home early)
>
>Just a comment..."difficult" cats may recover much better at home.
>While it may seem the cat is being sent home "too early" the stress of
>keeping the cat in a cage at the vet and having it handled by strangers
>may actually hinder the healing process. So in some instances where
>the guardian is competent enough to administer meds, fluids, etc. it
>may be in the best interest of the cat to send it home to continue its
>recovery.
>
>
>> has her branded as a real bitch by
>> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.
>
>Some vets have no bedside manner, that's for sure. You can tell a lot
>about the personality of the vet by the competency of the staff he or
>she can keep. If there is a high turn-over rate for the vet techs and
>receptionists, the vet probably is an asshole to work with, and
>probably not good with clients, either.
>
>-L.

One incident that comes to mind about "difficult cats" was one who
clearly didn't like vets (or that vet anyway) and needed to be
monitored after a procedure, but the owner was told to come and "get
that cat out of here". Totally bizarre and rude behavior was the point
I remembered from this episode told to me about a year ago. Others who
have had experiences with that vet have similar stories. It's too bad
because a feline only clinic without barking dogs or stupid dog owners
who let their dog walk up a to cat carrier scaring the **** out a sick
and stressed cat sure would be nice.

However I am all for bringing them home as soon as it is safe to do
so.

Even though our regular vet's staff has grown, most of the original
staff are still there even after maternity leaves came and gone, so I
guess that does speak volumes about the vets.

-mhd

January 23rd 06, 04:59 PM
"Phil P." > wrote:

>> Unfortunately the only feline clinic in town is run by a idiot whose
>> seemingly uncaring and harsh attitude (doesn't like pain in the ass
>> animals and sends them home early) has her branded as a real bitch by
>> anyone I have spoke to about that clinic.
>
>
>A lot of people mistake good bedside manners with expertise. "S/he is so
>nice" doesn't necessarily mean s/he's a good vet- and vice versa.
>Unfortunately, most people don't know what to look for or how to evaluate a
>vet's expertise. Many people learn the hard way- after irreversible damage
>has been done or they find out their cat would have lived if the vet treated
>her properly.

I agree that charm isn't everything. I like the fact my vets are quick
to offer information about advanced procedures offered elsewhere or
about what a pet owner can do if they want to get involved in
minimizing a pets decline. In this case I haven't heard one good
opinion about the feline only practice. We have lots of good clinics
in town and those who I have talked to go back to their original vet.

-mhd

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 06:45 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "PawsForThought" > wrote in message
> I can't help wonder why Brandy thinks it's your responsibility what her
> > cat eats. How ridiculous. The only one responsible for Brandy's cat
> > is Brandy herself. What an idiot. It's really simple to contact the
> > company that makes the catfood and find out the phosphorous content.
>
> Her little drama is all bull****. Think about it. She's broadcasted she
> kill-filed me at least 100 times and has told people time and again not to
> listen me. Now, all of a sudden, she says she took my advice and it was
> bad? LOL!

That's it exactly. I think it's easier for her to blame you (obviously
she has a comprehension problem) than to admit that she doesn't know
what the hell she's doing when it comes to her cat's care. I would
hate to be her cat :(

-L.
January 23rd 06, 07:01 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> A lot of people mistake good bedside manners with expertise. "S/he is so
> nice" doesn't necessarily mean s/he's a good vet- and vice versa.

While that's true, who wants to patronize a professional that either
doesn't act professionally, or is an asshole? I don't care how good a
vet is technically, if they treat their clients like ****, they aren't
a good vet. Human relations is part of the job description.

I once worked for a guy who had the bedside manner of Atilla the Hun.
He was an awesome vet, but more than one client walked out of the
clinic because he was such a jerk. The only thing that kept him in
business (and kept me working there) was that the other vets in the
practice more than made up for his assholiness. Once my favorite vet
left for another practice, a bunch of us left with her - there was no
reason to stay any longer.

-L.

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 10:54 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:

> In article om>, -L. says...
>
>>
>>Phil P. wrote:
>>
>>>A lot of people mistake good bedside manners with expertise. "S/he is so
>>>nice" doesn't necessarily mean s/he's a good vet- and vice versa.
>>
>>While that's true, who wants to patronize a professional that either
>>doesn't act professionally, or is an asshole? I don't care how good a
>>vet is technically, if they treat their clients like ****, they aren't
>>a good vet. Human relations is part of the job description.
>>
>>I once worked for a guy who had the bedside manner of Atilla the Hun.
>>He was an awesome vet, but more than one client walked out of the
>>clinic because he was such a jerk. The only thing that kept him in
>>business (and kept me working there) was that the other vets in the
>>practice more than made up for his assholiness. Once my favorite vet
>>left for another practice, a bunch of us left with her - there was no
>>reason to stay any longer.
>>
>>-L.
>
>

<snip>

> She said often the people can't manage their own healthcare, much
> less that of their pets'.

<snip>

It isn't that I disagree with the above, but I suspect your vet said
this with a straight face while looking at you straight in the eyes.

-L.
January 25th 06, 03:20 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:
> I agree with that. My vet is very friendly, talks to Kami much like I do, and
> seems to know exactly what her personaity is without my saying anything. When
> we had the recheck Friday, she stroke Kami a couple of times and carefully snuck
> underneath her to feel her bladder, etc., saying, "The princess will comply in
> her own time..." LOL! She's also a very loud person the dogs love, but she
> notches it down because she knows Kami doesn't like it. That's all invaluable
> if you ask me. Plus, I admire that she volunteers at a couple of Indian
> reservations.

Vets who do pro-bono work are gems, IMO.

> She said often the people can't manage their own healthcare, much
> less that of their pets'. My former vet used to volunteer services for mass
> TNRs. I like to find those who give back somehow.

As do I. Sadly, the people who can't manage their own health care or
that of their pets are usually the elderly and poor. It's a sad
statement on our society.

How is Kami doing this week?

-L.

NMR
January 25th 06, 03:25 AM
You measure a country on how they treat the elderly and the criminals The
USA needs a quick kick in the butt to get on the bandwagon
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Margarita Salt wrote:
>> I agree with that. My vet is very friendly, talks to Kami much like I
>> do, and
>> seems to know exactly what her personaity is without my saying anything.
>> When
>> we had the recheck Friday, she stroke Kami a couple of times and
>> carefully snuck
>> underneath her to feel her bladder, etc., saying, "The princess will
>> comply in
>> her own time..." LOL! She's also a very loud person the dogs love, but
>> she
>> notches it down because she knows Kami doesn't like it. That's all
>> invaluable
>> if you ask me. Plus, I admire that she volunteers at a couple of Indian
>> reservations.
>
> Vets who do pro-bono work are gems, IMO.
>
>> She said often the people can't manage their own healthcare, much
>> less that of their pets'. My former vet used to volunteer services for
>> mass
>> TNRs. I like to find those who give back somehow.
>
> As do I. Sadly, the people who can't manage their own health care or
> that of their pets are usually the elderly and poor. It's a sad
> statement on our society.
>
> How is Kami doing this week?
>
> -L.
>

-L.
January 25th 06, 06:30 PM
Margarita Salt wrote:
> She's doing well. Back to being demanding and coy. She's eating, but
> not putting out the other end much, though she is doing something. I
> figure her body is just using it all. I'm going to try to get her back
> to her own food starting tomorrow. That's going to be a battle...

I would just gradually mix it in over the next couple of weeks - no
need to shock her system or her attitude. ;)
-L.