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January 22nd 06, 10:22 PM
I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
months ago.

Believing that litter boxes are unhealthy for cats (imagine having to
walk around on litter contaminated with urine and feces) not to
mention tracking all that waste material around the house, I decided
to toilet train her.

I began by putting the litter box on the floor near the bathroom.
Every day I would raise the litter box another inch or two until it
was at the level of the toilet. Precious had no problem with this at
all.

After a couple weeks I purchased a Sitz Bath at a local drug store for
about ten dollars. I put it in the toilet and filled it with litter.
Precious had no problems with this either.

After about another week I made a hole in the Sitz Bath about the
diameter of a toilet roll tube and pushed an empty toilet roll holder
through the hole so that it extended a couple inches. I put litter in
the Sitz Bath as before. When Precious first got up she was very
curious about the hole and put her paw inside only to find it was wet.
This did not deter her from using the new litter box for her toilet
needs. I would give her a special treat whenever she used the toilet.

At night I would put her in a luxurious crate next to my bed and first
thing in the morning take her down to do her business. I did not want
to have any accidents at night.

Every week or so I would gradually enlarge the opening in the Sitz
Bath. When the opening got about six inches in diameter Precious was
unable to put her all her paws in the litter so she began to put her
from paws on the toilet seat to do her business.

I would flush the solid wastes down the toilet after Precious went #2.
She was fascinated by the water going down the toilet and would watch
as her feces disappeared.


When the opening got to the point where there was only a small rim of
litter Precious had to have all four paws on the toilet seat. I got
some of those no stick shower strips to prevent any slippage. She did
it like a champ.

Well she is now five months old. I removed the Sitz Bath completely a
couple weeks ago. She jumped on the toilet, looked inside and proceed
to relieve herself directly into the water. She jumped off to get her
treat.

Now all I have to do is teach her to flush the toilet:-) This should
not be a problem since she has occasionally done it for me when I am
on the toilet.

I encourage anyone with a new kitten to consider toilet training. It
is much easier to train a kitten and I believe it is much healthier
for the cat especially for those who used silica based litter which
are harmful when inhaled or eaten. I used Feline Pine for the toilet
training as it is flushable and totally natural. It also has a
wonderful woodsy odor. I still have two bags of it left.

I am very happy with the fact that my Precious no longer has to put
her feet into disgusting feces and urine soaked litter and track it
all over the house not to mention ingest it when cleaning her paws.

She also does not have to inhale the dust from the litter.



When she gets too old to jump up on the toilet seat I will set up a
stool or some other system to help her do this.

For those who are interested in toilet training I would be happy to
answer any questions you might have.

RC

Mr Tibbs
January 22nd 06, 11:07 PM
wrote:
> I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
> months ago.

cool beans, im too lazy to do this, but I want to

how did you keep the litter out of the toilet after the hole was bigger
than the temp tube plug

i have heard that newspaper stips are helpful for toilet training.
it's ok if some of them go in, while the hole is getting larger.

WTG!

January 22nd 06, 11:21 PM
On 22 Jan 2006 14:07:20 -0800, "Mr Tibbs" >
wrote:

>
wrote:
>> I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
>> months ago.
>
>cool beans, im too lazy to do this, but I want to

I have a few friends who are in the process of toilet training their
kittens too. It helps to have a spare bathroom to do the training.

>
>how did you keep the litter out of the toilet after the hole was bigger
>than the temp tube plug

I used an empty large round plastic container that I cut and rolled up
to fit the opening. Litter still ends up going in the toilet when the
cat scratches at it especially when the hole is a novelty. That is why
you need to use flushable litter.

>WTG!

Thanx. Both Precious and I are very happy. No more litter!!!!

RC

Joe Canuck
January 22nd 06, 11:31 PM
wrote:

> I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
> months ago.
>
> Believing that litter boxes are unhealthy for cats (imagine having to
> walk around on litter contaminated with urine and feces) not to
> mention tracking all that waste material around the house, I decided
> to toilet train her.
>
> I began by putting the litter box on the floor near the bathroom.
> Every day I would raise the litter box another inch or two until it
> was at the level of the toilet. Precious had no problem with this at
> all.
>
> After a couple weeks I purchased a Sitz Bath at a local drug store for
> about ten dollars. I put it in the toilet and filled it with litter.
> Precious had no problems with this either.
>
> After about another week I made a hole in the Sitz Bath about the
> diameter of a toilet roll tube and pushed an empty toilet roll holder
> through the hole so that it extended a couple inches. I put litter in
> the Sitz Bath as before. When Precious first got up she was very
> curious about the hole and put her paw inside only to find it was wet.
> This did not deter her from using the new litter box for her toilet
> needs. I would give her a special treat whenever she used the toilet.
>
> At night I would put her in a luxurious crate next to my bed and first
> thing in the morning take her down to do her business. I did not want
> to have any accidents at night.
>
> Every week or so I would gradually enlarge the opening in the Sitz
> Bath. When the opening got about six inches in diameter Precious was
> unable to put her all her paws in the litter so she began to put her
> from paws on the toilet seat to do her business.
>
> I would flush the solid wastes down the toilet after Precious went #2.
> She was fascinated by the water going down the toilet and would watch
> as her feces disappeared.
>
>
> When the opening got to the point where there was only a small rim of
> litter Precious had to have all four paws on the toilet seat. I got
> some of those no stick shower strips to prevent any slippage. She did
> it like a champ.
>
> Well she is now five months old. I removed the Sitz Bath completely a
> couple weeks ago. She jumped on the toilet, looked inside and proceed
> to relieve herself directly into the water. She jumped off to get her
> treat.
>
> Now all I have to do is teach her to flush the toilet:-) This should
> not be a problem since she has occasionally done it for me when I am
> on the toilet.
>
> I encourage anyone with a new kitten to consider toilet training. It
> is much easier to train a kitten and I believe it is much healthier
> for the cat especially for those who used silica based litter which
> are harmful when inhaled or eaten. I used Feline Pine for the toilet
> training as it is flushable and totally natural. It also has a
> wonderful woodsy odor. I still have two bags of it left.
>
> I am very happy with the fact that my Precious no longer has to put
> her feet into disgusting feces and urine soaked litter and track it
> all over the house not to mention ingest it when cleaning her paws.
>
> She also does not have to inhale the dust from the litter.
>
>
>
> When she gets too old to jump up on the toilet seat I will set up a
> stool or some other system to help her do this.
>
> For those who are interested in toilet training I would be happy to
> answer any questions you might have.
>
> RC

I find this somewhat problematic.

What happens when the cat becomes a senior citizen and is perhaps unable
to make the leap to reach the toilet? The stool may not cut it.

What happens if you, for some unforeseen reason, need to give this cat
up? It may become a difficult adoption case.

What happens if you live somewhere with only one washroom? Kitty may not
like waiting while you enjoy a long relaxing soak in the tub.

What happens if the cat needs to spend extended time at the vet? Will
they provide a toilet or litter box? Will your training be undone by this?

What happens if the cat starts to go other places besides the toilet?
You either have a medical or behavior issue. If it is behavior issue you
may need to go back to basics to get it straightened out... meaning back
to the litter box.

I'd encourage anyone to think twice about this. Domestic cats have been
using the litter box for a very long time, why mess with something that
is a well established behavior? Cats dig in the dirt and bury their
waste... this is instinctive behavior.

January 23rd 06, 12:16 AM
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:31:39 -0500, Joe Canuck
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
>> months ago.
>>
>> Believing that litter boxes are unhealthy for cats (imagine having to
>> walk around on litter contaminated with urine and feces) not to
>> mention tracking all that waste material around the house, I decided
>> to toilet train her.
>>
>> I began by putting the litter box on the floor near the bathroom.
>> Every day I would raise the litter box another inch or two until it
>> was at the level of the toilet. Precious had no problem with this at
>> all.
>>
>> After a couple weeks I purchased a Sitz Bath at a local drug store for
>> about ten dollars. I put it in the toilet and filled it with litter.
>> Precious had no problems with this either.
>>
>> After about another week I made a hole in the Sitz Bath about the
>> diameter of a toilet roll tube and pushed an empty toilet roll holder
>> through the hole so that it extended a couple inches. I put litter in
>> the Sitz Bath as before. When Precious first got up she was very
>> curious about the hole and put her paw inside only to find it was wet.
>> This did not deter her from using the new litter box for her toilet
>> needs. I would give her a special treat whenever she used the toilet.
>>
>> At night I would put her in a luxurious crate next to my bed and first
>> thing in the morning take her down to do her business. I did not want
>> to have any accidents at night.
>>
>> Every week or so I would gradually enlarge the opening in the Sitz
>> Bath. When the opening got about six inches in diameter Precious was
>> unable to put her all her paws in the litter so she began to put her
>> from paws on the toilet seat to do her business.
>>
>> I would flush the solid wastes down the toilet after Precious went #2.
>> She was fascinated by the water going down the toilet and would watch
>> as her feces disappeared.
>>
>>
>> When the opening got to the point where there was only a small rim of
>> litter Precious had to have all four paws on the toilet seat. I got
>> some of those no stick shower strips to prevent any slippage. She did
>> it like a champ.
>>
>> Well she is now five months old. I removed the Sitz Bath completely a
>> couple weeks ago. She jumped on the toilet, looked inside and proceed
>> to relieve herself directly into the water. She jumped off to get her
>> treat.
>>
>> Now all I have to do is teach her to flush the toilet:-) This should
>> not be a problem since she has occasionally done it for me when I am
>> on the toilet.
>>
>> I encourage anyone with a new kitten to consider toilet training. It
>> is much easier to train a kitten and I believe it is much healthier
>> for the cat especially for those who used silica based litter which
>> are harmful when inhaled or eaten. I used Feline Pine for the toilet
>> training as it is flushable and totally natural. It also has a
>> wonderful woodsy odor. I still have two bags of it left.
>>
>> I am very happy with the fact that my Precious no longer has to put
>> her feet into disgusting feces and urine soaked litter and track it
>> all over the house not to mention ingest it when cleaning her paws.
>>
>> She also does not have to inhale the dust from the litter.
>>
>>
>>
>> When she gets too old to jump up on the toilet seat I will set up a
>> stool or some other system to help her do this.
>>
>> For those who are interested in toilet training I would be happy to
>> answer any questions you might have.
>>
>> RC
>
>I find this somewhat problematic.
>
>What happens when the cat becomes a senior citizen and is perhaps unable
>to make the leap to reach the toilet? The stool may not cut it.

If the stool does not cut it then I will try my best to find a good
way to get around it. I have carpentry skills and can build steps for
her to climb. And if I cannot do any of this then I will use a litter
basket. I suspect this will not happen for many happy years for both
of us if it happens at all.
>
>What happens if you, for some unforeseen reason, need to give this cat
>up? It may become a difficult adoption case.

Why? I have friends who have toilet trained their cats who would be
happy to adopt her. And if worse comes to worse she can always go back
to litter. The transition would not be that difficult.
>
>What happens if you live somewhere with only one washroom?

I live in a house with four bathrooms. I don't plan to move as the
house it paid for and I am very happy with it. Precious has her own
bathroom. She is quite happy.

>Kitty may not
>like waiting while you enjoy a long relaxing soak in the tub.

She does not have to wait. She can go to the toilet while someone is
in the bath. Precious does not mind other's watching her go pee. She
is an exhibitionist.
>
>What happens if the cat needs to spend extended time at the vet? Will
>they provide a toilet or litter box? Will your training be undone by this?

No, my training will not be undone by this. When Precious returns she
will likely go right back to the toilet. If not, I will deal with that
when it comes up.
>
>What happens if the cat starts to go other places besides the toilet?

I will deal with that when it happens. I will try to figure out why
and take steps to remedy it.



>You either have a medical or behavior issue. If it is behavior issue you
>may need to go back to basics to get it straightened out... meaning back
>to the litter box.

I will deal with that if and when it comes up. Precious and I have a
very good relationship. I have been very good about giving her much
praise and rewards for certain behaviors and she responds positively
to it.
>
>I'd encourage anyone to think twice about this. Domestic cats have been
>using the litter box for a very long time, why mess with something that
>is a well established behavior?

My kitten only used a litter box for a few months til I weaned her off
of it to something that is much healthier. As I said she no longer has
to put her feet in a place with feces and urine. She no longer has to
clean her paws and ingest lord knows what. She no longer has to inhale
the litter dust which can be very toxic depending on the litter. I
believe that Precious will live a much longer and healthier life than
cats who are forced to regularly walk in their excrement and inhale
dust from litter.


>Cats dig in the dirt and bury their
>waste... this is instinctive behavior.

If it is so instinctual then how do you explain how easily I trained
her to engage in a behavior that is much healthier for her IMO. YMMV.

RC

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 12:35 AM
wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:31:39 -0500, Joe Canuck
> > wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
>>>months ago.
>>>
>>>Believing that litter boxes are unhealthy for cats (imagine having to
>>>walk around on litter contaminated with urine and feces) not to
>>>mention tracking all that waste material around the house, I decided
>>>to toilet train her.
>>>
>>>I began by putting the litter box on the floor near the bathroom.
>>>Every day I would raise the litter box another inch or two until it
>>>was at the level of the toilet. Precious had no problem with this at
>>>all.
>>>
>>>After a couple weeks I purchased a Sitz Bath at a local drug store for
>>>about ten dollars. I put it in the toilet and filled it with litter.
>>>Precious had no problems with this either.
>>>
>>>After about another week I made a hole in the Sitz Bath about the
>>>diameter of a toilet roll tube and pushed an empty toilet roll holder
>>>through the hole so that it extended a couple inches. I put litter in
>>>the Sitz Bath as before. When Precious first got up she was very
>>>curious about the hole and put her paw inside only to find it was wet.
>>>This did not deter her from using the new litter box for her toilet
>>>needs. I would give her a special treat whenever she used the toilet.
>>>
>>>At night I would put her in a luxurious crate next to my bed and first
>>>thing in the morning take her down to do her business. I did not want
>>>to have any accidents at night.
>>>
>>>Every week or so I would gradually enlarge the opening in the Sitz
>>>Bath. When the opening got about six inches in diameter Precious was
>>>unable to put her all her paws in the litter so she began to put her
>>>from paws on the toilet seat to do her business.
>>>
>>>I would flush the solid wastes down the toilet after Precious went #2.
>>>She was fascinated by the water going down the toilet and would watch
>>>as her feces disappeared.
>>>
>>>
>>>When the opening got to the point where there was only a small rim of
>>>litter Precious had to have all four paws on the toilet seat. I got
>>>some of those no stick shower strips to prevent any slippage. She did
>>>it like a champ.
>>>
>>>Well she is now five months old. I removed the Sitz Bath completely a
>>>couple weeks ago. She jumped on the toilet, looked inside and proceed
>>>to relieve herself directly into the water. She jumped off to get her
>>>treat.
>>>
>>>Now all I have to do is teach her to flush the toilet:-) This should
>>>not be a problem since she has occasionally done it for me when I am
>>>on the toilet.
>>>
>>>I encourage anyone with a new kitten to consider toilet training. It
>>>is much easier to train a kitten and I believe it is much healthier
>>>for the cat especially for those who used silica based litter which
>>>are harmful when inhaled or eaten. I used Feline Pine for the toilet
>>>training as it is flushable and totally natural. It also has a
>>>wonderful woodsy odor. I still have two bags of it left.
>>>
>>>I am very happy with the fact that my Precious no longer has to put
>>>her feet into disgusting feces and urine soaked litter and track it
>>>all over the house not to mention ingest it when cleaning her paws.
>>>
>>> She also does not have to inhale the dust from the litter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>When she gets too old to jump up on the toilet seat I will set up a
>>>stool or some other system to help her do this.
>>>
>>>For those who are interested in toilet training I would be happy to
>>>answer any questions you might have.
>>>
>>>RC
>>
>>I find this somewhat problematic.
>>
>>What happens when the cat becomes a senior citizen and is perhaps unable
>>to make the leap to reach the toilet? The stool may not cut it.
>
>
> If the stool does not cut it then I will try my best to find a good
> way to get around it. I have carpentry skills and can build steps for
> her to climb. And if I cannot do any of this then I will use a litter
> basket. I suspect this will not happen for many happy years for both
> of us if it happens at all.
>
>>What happens if you, for some unforeseen reason, need to give this cat
>>up? It may become a difficult adoption case.
>
>
> Why? I have friends who have toilet trained their cats who would be
> happy to adopt her. And if worse comes to worse she can always go back
> to litter. The transition would not be that difficult.
>
>>What happens if you live somewhere with only one washroom?
>
>
> I live in a house with four bathrooms. I don't plan to move as the
> house it paid for and I am very happy with it. Precious has her own
> bathroom. She is quite happy.
>
>
>>Kitty may not
>>like waiting while you enjoy a long relaxing soak in the tub.
>
>
> She does not have to wait. She can go to the toilet while someone is
> in the bath. Precious does not mind other's watching her go pee. She
> is an exhibitionist.
>
>>What happens if the cat needs to spend extended time at the vet? Will
>>they provide a toilet or litter box? Will your training be undone by this?
>
>
> No, my training will not be undone by this. When Precious returns she
> will likely go right back to the toilet. If not, I will deal with that
> when it comes up.
>
>>What happens if the cat starts to go other places besides the toilet?
>
>
> I will deal with that when it happens. I will try to figure out why
> and take steps to remedy it.
>
>
>
>
>>You either have a medical or behavior issue. If it is behavior issue you
>>may need to go back to basics to get it straightened out... meaning back
>>to the litter box.
>
>
> I will deal with that if and when it comes up. Precious and I have a
> very good relationship. I have been very good about giving her much
> praise and rewards for certain behaviors and she responds positively
> to it.
>
>>I'd encourage anyone to think twice about this. Domestic cats have been
>>using the litter box for a very long time, why mess with something that
>>is a well established behavior?
>
>
> My kitten only used a litter box for a few months til I weaned her off
> of it to something that is much healthier. As I said she no longer has
> to put her feet in a place with feces and urine. She no longer has to
> clean her paws and ingest lord knows what. She no longer has to inhale
> the litter dust which can be very toxic depending on the litter. I
> believe that Precious will live a much longer and healthier life than
> cats who are forced to regularly walk in their excrement and inhale
> dust from litter.
>

The only reason cats that use litter boxes regularly walk in their
excrement is because of lazy owners who don't scoop out the litter box
regularly... i.e. daily.

In any case, if the cat buries their excrement in the litter they won't
be walking on it directly.

>
>
>>Cats dig in the dirt and bury their
>>waste... this is instinctive behavior.
>
>
> If it is so instinctual then how do you explain how easily I trained
> her to engage in a behavior that is much healthier for her IMO. YMMV.
>
> RC
>

It isn't an easy process.

January 23rd 06, 12:52 AM
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:35:06 -0500, Joe Canuck
> wrote:

>The only reason cats that use litter boxes regularly walk in their
>excrement is because of lazy owners who don't scoop out the litter box
>regularly... i.e. daily.

Daily does not cut it.
Scooping out the litter box does not get rid of every bit of feces or
urine. Even when it looks clean it is filled with disgusting feces and
urine. The only time it is truly clean is when you change the litter
completely. And then as soon as the cat uses it, it will be
contaminated to some degree or another.
>
>In any case, if the cat buries their excrement in the litter they won't
>be walking on it directly.

Even if they bury it there will be reside of fecal material on the
surface of the litter. And it is not buried very deep. And what do you
think that they use to bury it?? Their paws. How do they clean their
paws. With their mouth. If you want your cat to spend years of
cleaning their feces covered paws with their mouths, walking in urine
and feces contaminated litter and then track it all through your house
then by all means go for it. I choose a different route and I believe
much healthier route for both the cat and their owners.

If you do it right it is not as difficult as you might think. It is
very important to have a good positive relationship with your kitten
and use the techniques of behavior modification with much praise and
rewards for good behavior. For Precious it was a piece of cake. She
was very responsive to the rewards that I gave her.

RC

Wendy
January 23rd 06, 12:58 AM
> wrote in message
...
>I adopted a cute all white kitten when she was six weeks old, four
> months ago.
>
> Believing that litter boxes are unhealthy for cats (imagine having to
> walk around on litter contaminated with urine and feces) not to
> mention tracking all that waste material around the house, I decided
> to toilet train her.
>
> I began by putting the litter box on the floor near the bathroom.
> Every day I would raise the litter box another inch or two until it
> was at the level of the toilet. Precious had no problem with this at
> all.
>
> After a couple weeks I purchased a Sitz Bath at a local drug store for
> about ten dollars. I put it in the toilet and filled it with litter.
> Precious had no problems with this either.
>
> After about another week I made a hole in the Sitz Bath about the
> diameter of a toilet roll tube and pushed an empty toilet roll holder
> through the hole so that it extended a couple inches. I put litter in
> the Sitz Bath as before. When Precious first got up she was very
> curious about the hole and put her paw inside only to find it was wet.
> This did not deter her from using the new litter box for her toilet
> needs. I would give her a special treat whenever she used the toilet.
>
> At night I would put her in a luxurious crate next to my bed and first
> thing in the morning take her down to do her business. I did not want
> to have any accidents at night.
>
> Every week or so I would gradually enlarge the opening in the Sitz
> Bath. When the opening got about six inches in diameter Precious was
> unable to put her all her paws in the litter so she began to put her
> from paws on the toilet seat to do her business.
>
> I would flush the solid wastes down the toilet after Precious went #2.
> She was fascinated by the water going down the toilet and would watch
> as her feces disappeared.
>
>
> When the opening got to the point where there was only a small rim of
> litter Precious had to have all four paws on the toilet seat. I got
> some of those no stick shower strips to prevent any slippage. She did
> it like a champ.
>
> Well she is now five months old. I removed the Sitz Bath completely a
> couple weeks ago. She jumped on the toilet, looked inside and proceed
> to relieve herself directly into the water. She jumped off to get her
> treat.
>
> Now all I have to do is teach her to flush the toilet:-) This should
> not be a problem since she has occasionally done it for me when I am
> on the toilet.
>
> I encourage anyone with a new kitten to consider toilet training. It
> is much easier to train a kitten and I believe it is much healthier
> for the cat especially for those who used silica based litter which
> are harmful when inhaled or eaten. I used Feline Pine for the toilet
> training as it is flushable and totally natural. It also has a
> wonderful woodsy odor. I still have two bags of it left.
>
> I am very happy with the fact that my Precious no longer has to put
> her feet into disgusting feces and urine soaked litter and track it
> all over the house not to mention ingest it when cleaning her paws.
>
> She also does not have to inhale the dust from the litter.
>
>
>
> When she gets too old to jump up on the toilet seat I will set up a
> stool or some other system to help her do this.
>
> For those who are interested in toilet training I would be happy to
> answer any questions you might have.
>
> RC

Are you going to put no-slip strips on the toilet seat so your kitten isn't
as likely to have a mishap and fall into the toilet. I had to rescue my cat,
Mabel (RB '87) after she slipped and fell into the toilet. She had all four
paws on porcelain and was freaking out as she slipped towards the water. My
cat, Tigger (RB '05) slipped into the toilet when she was a kitten. I heard
her splash, give a yell and manage to get herself out of there in a hurry.
She was lucky and all that got hurt was her dignity. I've kept the lid shut
since then.

Wendy

January 23rd 06, 01:07 AM
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:58:11 -0500, "Wendy" >
wrote:

>Are you going to put no-slip strips on the toilet seat so your kitten isn't
>as likely to have a mishap and fall into the toilet.

Yes, Wendy. I have already done that. I think that I mentioned it in
an earlier post. I forgot to mention that once Precious did fall into
the toilet. This was when she was about two months old and jumped up
on the toilet I was using after I got up when I flushed it. She
slipped in and got a bath. But that did not seem to have any negative
impact on her toilet training. But it is why I got the no slip strips
for training purposes. I may remove them later as she gets more agile
on the seat. She seems to have fairly good balance.


> I had to rescue my cat,
>Mabel (RB '87) after she slipped and fell into the toilet. She had all four
>paws on porcelain and was freaking out as she slipped towards the water. My
>cat, Tigger (RB '05) slipped into the toilet when she was a kitten. I heard
>her splash, give a yell and manage to get herself out of there in a hurry.
>She was lucky and all that got hurt was her dignity. I've kept the lid shut
>since then.

Precious is pretty nimble. She managed to jump back out when she was
just about two months old. I am wondering if she will start using the
other toilets to relieve herself. Time will tell. At this point I keep
the bathroom doors closed except for Precious'. I do this after
finding the entire roll of toilet paper unrolled on the floor.
Precious loves unrolling toilet paper. I am glad she does not have to
wipe herself after going:-))

RC

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 01:47 AM
wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:58:11 -0500, "Wendy" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Are you going to put no-slip strips on the toilet seat so your kitten isn't
>>as likely to have a mishap and fall into the toilet.
>
>
> Yes, Wendy. I have already done that. I think that I mentioned it in
> an earlier post. I forgot to mention that once Precious did fall into
> the toilet. This was when she was about two months old and jumped up
> on the toilet I was using after I got up when I flushed it. She
> slipped in and got a bath. But that did not seem to have any negative
> impact on her toilet training. But it is why I got the no slip strips
> for training purposes. I may remove them later as she gets more agile
> on the seat. She seems to have fairly good balance.
>

Yes indeed, a bath... in germ infested waters. Likely far worse than she
gets in the litter box.

>
>
>>I had to rescue my cat,
>>Mabel (RB '87) after she slipped and fell into the toilet. She had all four
>>paws on porcelain and was freaking out as she slipped towards the water. My
>>cat, Tigger (RB '05) slipped into the toilet when she was a kitten. I heard
>>her splash, give a yell and manage to get herself out of there in a hurry.
>>She was lucky and all that got hurt was her dignity. I've kept the lid shut
>>since then.
>
>
> Precious is pretty nimble. She managed to jump back out when she was
> just about two months old. I am wondering if she will start using the
> other toilets to relieve herself. Time will tell. At this point I keep
> the bathroom doors closed except for Precious'. I do this after
> finding the entire roll of toilet paper unrolled on the floor.
> Precious loves unrolling toilet paper. I am glad she does not have to
> wipe herself after going:-))
>
> RC
>

January 23rd 06, 02:04 AM
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:47:17 -0500, Joe Canuck
> wrote:

wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:58:11 -0500, "Wendy" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Are you going to put no-slip strips on the toilet seat so your kitten isn't
>>>as likely to have a mishap and fall into the toilet.
>>
>>
>> Yes, Wendy. I have already done that. I think that I mentioned it in
>> an earlier post. I forgot to mention that once Precious did fall into
>> the toilet. This was when she was about two months old and jumped up
>> on the toilet I was using after I got up when I flushed it. She
>> slipped in and got a bath. But that did not seem to have any negative
>> impact on her toilet training. But it is why I got the no slip strips
>> for training purposes. I may remove them later as she gets more agile
>> on the seat. She seems to have fairly good balance.
>>
>
>Yes indeed, a bath... in germ infested waters.

Yep, real toxic waste. It is amazing she survived:-)

> Likely far worse than she
>gets in the litter box.

Hardly. As soon as she got out I gave her a good bath and cleaned her
off. Btw when she fell in, the feces had already been flushed down the
toilet and new fresh water was rushing in.


Compare that single episode to her every single day of her life
walking on feces and urine contaminated litter than she cleans off
with her mouth and tracks through the house. Compare that with daily
exposure to the dust and residue of the litter which can be toxic to
the cat. If a cat lives to fifteen years of age that amounts to over
5000 days of this. And you really think that a *single* dip in the
toilet compares to that??



RC

---MIKE---
January 23rd 06, 02:06 AM
I'm beginning to smell a troll.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 02:16 AM
wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:47:17 -0500, Joe Canuck
> > wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:58:11 -0500, "Wendy" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Are you going to put no-slip strips on the toilet seat so your kitten isn't
>>>>as likely to have a mishap and fall into the toilet.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, Wendy. I have already done that. I think that I mentioned it in
>>>an earlier post. I forgot to mention that once Precious did fall into
>>>the toilet. This was when she was about two months old and jumped up
>>>on the toilet I was using after I got up when I flushed it. She
>>>slipped in and got a bath. But that did not seem to have any negative
>>>impact on her toilet training. But it is why I got the no slip strips
>>>for training purposes. I may remove them later as she gets more agile
>>>on the seat. She seems to have fairly good balance.
>>>
>>
>>Yes indeed, a bath... in germ infested waters.
>
>
> Yep, real toxic waste. It is amazing she survived:-)
>
>
>>Likely far worse than she
>>gets in the litter box.
>
>
> Hardly. As soon as she got out I gave her a good bath and cleaned her
> off. Btw when she fell in, the feces had already been flushed down the
> toilet and new fresh water was rushing in.
>

Yes, but that water didn't stay fresh long. LOL!

>
> Compare that single episode to her every single day of her life
> walking on feces and urine contaminated litter than she cleans off
> with her mouth and tracks through the house. Compare that with daily
> exposure to the dust and residue of the litter which can be toxic to
> the cat. If a cat lives to fifteen years of age that amounts to over
> 5000 days of this. And you really think that a *single* dip in the
> toilet compares to that??
>
>
>
> RC
>

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 02:17 AM
---MIKE--- wrote:

> I'm beginning to smell a troll.
>

I wonder if Precious is a Boston Red Sox fan? :-D


>
> ---MIKE---
>
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>
> >> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>

January 23rd 06, 02:34 AM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:22:14 GMT, Diane
> wrote:

>
>If the OP read The Secret House and realised how many droplets of urine
>and toilet water fly out of the water with each flush, he'd wonder how
>much less sanitary a litter box really is.

There is no comparison. Human urine is generally sterile unless you
have a bacterial infection. Feces are another matter although I don't
think that fecal material flies out of the toilet with each flush.
>
>Personally, I think a well-maintained litter box is fine.

Fine for what? Every time you cat steps in it he/she is getting feces
on their paws. Cat feces can transmit toxoplasmosis to humans. This is
especially dangerous for pregnant women.

They also get litter on their paws which they clean with their
mouths. Unless you use a litter like Feline Pine the litter likely is
not very good for the cats to ingest.


> I can't think
>of too many cats that have died or even gotten sick from using one (as
>long as they're not around unhealthy animals).

How would you know if their sickness was secondary to the litter
box,especially the silica based litter? How many years are taken off
each life of a cat that must step in this unsanitary litter every day
of their life. I don't know the definitive answer to the question but
strongly suspect that a cat that uses the toilet and never is exposed
to either their own feces or litter will be a healthier cat and the
home they are raised in will be a healthier and cleaner home. Just my
opinion but seems to make sense to me. YMMV.

RC

cybercat
January 23rd 06, 02:40 AM
"Diane" > wrote :
>
> Personally, I think a well-maintained litter box is fine. I can't think
> of too many cats that have died or even gotten sick from using one (as
> long as they're not around unhealthy animals).
>

It is nothing more than lazy boys who don't want to be bothered
with taking care of a cat box.

NMR
January 23rd 06, 02:44 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...

> It is nothing more than lazy boys who don't want to be bothered
> with taking care of a cat box.
>

I am " annoyed " with that email. Who do I call again? :-)

NMR
January 23rd 06, 02:48 AM
"Diane" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> In article >,
> "NMR" > wrote:
>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > It is nothing more than lazy boys who don't want to be bothered
>> > with taking care of a cat box.
>> >
>>
>> I am " annoyed " with that email. Who do I call again? :-)
>
> The senator from Pennsylvania. And I'm perpetually annoyed. Whom can I
> blame? :)

the liberals

> --
> Web site: http://www.slywy.com/
> Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/
> Journal: http://slywy.blogspot.com/

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 03:02 AM
Diane wrote:
> In article >,
> (---MIKE---) wrote:
>
> > I'm beginning to smell a troll.
>
> Or someone who's OCD.

Yep, an OCD troll, or just a nutcase.

January 23rd 06, 03:07 AM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:22:38 GMT, Diane
> wrote:

>In article >,
> (---MIKE---) wrote:
>
>> I'm beginning to smell a troll.
>
>Or someone who's OCD.

Would you care to expound upon that. OCD is a condition characterized
by recurrent obsessive thoughts and ritualistic behaviors that create
much anxiety for the person. Maybe you meant OCPD which is a
personality disorder characterized by excessive orderliness and
rigidity.

In either case neither apply to me. I am just interested in creating a
healthy happy environment for my new kitten and thought that
eliminating the litter box would do that. And it has.

Could it be that the problem is that you are jealous that I won't have
to deal with litter anymore and that you who have decided that a
litter box is better than a toilet trained cat will have the
"pleasure" of removing feces and urine clumps from a litter box for
many years. I OTOH will only have to flush the toilet. And when I
teach Precious to do that she will truly be a low maintenance cat.

Btw, toward that end I attached a string to the toilet handle with her
favorite toy attached. Now the trick will be to teach her to only
flush when she goes since she loves to watch the toilet water being
flushed.

RC

January 23rd 06, 03:10 AM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:48:37 GMT, Diane
> wrote:

>In article >,
> wrote:
>
>> How would you know if their sickness was secondary to the litter
>> box,especially the silica based litter? How many years are taken off
>> each life of a cat that must step in this unsanitary litter every day
>> of their life.
>
>Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.

Does that mean that cigarettes are safe because of all those ninety
year old people who have been smoking for most of their lives?? There
are probably as many 18-20 year old cats using cat litter as there are
nine year old smokers. They both are fairly uncommon.

Your attempt to refute my concerns really falls flat with that
statement. Perhaps a course in logic may help.



>
>I like the "troll" theory. And the lazy boy one. :)

A troll is an individual who deliberately makes an inflammatory post
to get a negative reaction from people.

An example of a troll would be someone who called me a "lazy boy" for
simply wanting to create a healthy environment for my new kitten by
toilet training and getting rid of a litter box.

Or someone who facetiously says that old cats are dying from cat
litter.

Or someone who says I have OCD.

You see all the above statements have nothing to do with my post about
toilet training but are designed to get a negative reaction out of me.
Seems like I might be right about some of you being jealous that while
my cat is using the toilet you guys will be spending countless hours
over the next several years dealing with the litter box. Sorry bout
that.


There was absolutely nothing inflammatory about my initial post about
toilet training my new kitten. Someone responded with concerns and I
tried to address them in a respectful manner.

Now there appear to be individuals who are accusing me of being a
troll but are making troll-like posts in an apparent effort to get a
rise out of me by calling me a lazy boy and other such nonsense
(although the Red Sox fan comment did get a rise out of Precious.. How
did you know she was a Yanks fan?)

Sorry but I am not interested in the troll bait.

However if there are people interested in toilet training or in
discussing the pros and cons of it I would be happy to do so. If OTOH
you guys want to flame me then go right ahead. Matters not much to me.

Stupid is as stupid does.

RC

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 03:23 AM
wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:48:37 GMT, Diane
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How would you know if their sickness was secondary to the litter
>>>box,especially the silica based litter? How many years are taken off
>>>each life of a cat that must step in this unsanitary litter every day
>>>of their life.
>>
>>Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.
>
>
> Does that mean that cigarettes are safe because of all those ninety
> year old people who have been smoking for most of their lives?? There
> are probably as many 18-20 year old cats using cat litter as there are
> nine year old smokers. They both are fairly uncommon.
>
> Your attempt to refute my concerns really falls flat with that
> statement. Perhaps a course in logic may help.
>
>
>
>
>>I like the "troll" theory. And the lazy boy one. :)
>
>
> A troll is an individual who deliberately makes an inflammatory post
> to get a negative reaction from people.
>
> An example of a troll would be someone who called me a "lazy boy" for
> simply wanting to create a healthy environment for my new kitten by
> toilet training and getting rid of a litter box.
>
> Or someone who facetiously says that old cats are dying from cat
> litter.
>
> Or someone who says I have OCD.
>
> You see all the above statements have nothing to do with my post about
> toilet training but are designed to get a negative reaction out of me.
> Seems like I might be right about some of you being jealous that while
> my cat is using the toilet you guys will be spending countless hours
> over the next several years dealing with the litter box. Sorry bout
> that.
>
>
> There was absolutely nothing inflammatory about my initial post about
> toilet training my new kitten. Someone responded with concerns and I
> tried to address them in a respectful manner.
>
> Now there appear to be individuals who are accusing me of being a
> troll but are making troll-like posts in an apparent effort to get a
> rise out of me by calling me a lazy boy and other such nonsense
> (although the Red Sox fan comment did get a rise out of Precious.. How
> did you know she was a Yanks fan?)
>
> Sorry but I am not interested in the troll bait.
>
> However if there are people interested in toilet training or in
> discussing the pros and cons of it I would be happy to do so. If OTOH
> you guys want to flame me then go right ahead. Matters not much to me.
>
> Stupid is as stupid does.
>
> RC
>

Show me a study on the effects of felines using litter boxes.

cybercat
January 23rd 06, 03:40 AM
"Diane" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> In article >,
> "NMR" > wrote:
>
> > "cybercat" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > It is nothing more than lazy boys who don't want to be bothered
> > > with taking care of a cat box.
> > >
> >
> > I am " annoyed " with that email. Who do I call again? :-)
>
> The senator from Pennsylvania. And I'm perpetually annoyed. Whom can I
> blame? :)
>

Everybody usually blames me. Oh, what the heck, come on, you know you
wanna!

NMR
January 23rd 06, 03:41 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Diane" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> In article >,
>> "NMR" > wrote:
>>
>> > "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> > > It is nothing more than lazy boys who don't want to be bothered
>> > > with taking care of a cat box.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I am " annoyed " with that email. Who do I call again? :-)
>>
>> The senator from Pennsylvania. And I'm perpetually annoyed. Whom can I
>> blame? :)
>>
>
> Everybody usually blames me. Oh, what the heck, come on, you know you
> wanna!
>
You are to easy to do that to :-)

NMR
January 23rd 06, 03:45 AM
"Diane" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> In article >,
> Joe Canuck > wrote:
>
>> Show me a study on the effects of felines using litter boxes.
>
> Yes, that's what I would like to see -- the number of cats killed by
> litter boxes. I hinted at it earlier, but it was not forthcoming. :)
>

Is it just litter boxes or can we include cat litter in this if so how
many of us know about the dangers of clumping litter

January 23rd 06, 03:54 AM
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:23:26 -0500, Joe Canuck
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:48:37 GMT, Diane
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>How would you know if their sickness was secondary to the litter
>>>>box,especially the silica based litter? How many years are taken off
>>>>each life of a cat that must step in this unsanitary litter every day
>>>>of their life.
>>>
>>>Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.
>>
>>
>> Does that mean that cigarettes are safe because of all those ninety
>> year old people who have been smoking for most of their lives?? There
>> are probably as many 18-20 year old cats using cat litter as there are
>> nine year old smokers. They both are fairly uncommon.
>>
>> Your attempt to refute my concerns really falls flat with that
>> statement. Perhaps a course in logic may help.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I like the "troll" theory. And the lazy boy one. :)
>>
>>
>> A troll is an individual who deliberately makes an inflammatory post
>> to get a negative reaction from people.
>>
>> An example of a troll would be someone who called me a "lazy boy" for
>> simply wanting to create a healthy environment for my new kitten by
>> toilet training and getting rid of a litter box.
>>
>> Or someone who facetiously says that old cats are dying from cat
>> litter.
>>
>> Or someone who says I have OCD.
>>
>> You see all the above statements have nothing to do with my post about
>> toilet training but are designed to get a negative reaction out of me.
>> Seems like I might be right about some of you being jealous that while
>> my cat is using the toilet you guys will be spending countless hours
>> over the next several years dealing with the litter box. Sorry bout
>> that.
>>
>>
>> There was absolutely nothing inflammatory about my initial post about
>> toilet training my new kitten. Someone responded with concerns and I
>> tried to address them in a respectful manner.
>>
>> Now there appear to be individuals who are accusing me of being a
>> troll but are making troll-like posts in an apparent effort to get a
>> rise out of me by calling me a lazy boy and other such nonsense
>> (although the Red Sox fan comment did get a rise out of Precious.. How
>> did you know she was a Yanks fan?)
>>
>> Sorry but I am not interested in the troll bait.
>>
>> However if there are people interested in toilet training or in
>> discussing the pros and cons of it I would be happy to do so. If OTOH
>> you guys want to flame me then go right ahead. Matters not much to me.
>>
>> Stupid is as stupid does.
>>
>> RC
>>
>
>Show me a study on the effects of felines using litter boxes.

Sorry, don't have one. I am just using common sense that litter boxes
would be more harmful to both cats and owners compared to toilet
trained cats.

I have given some examples. It is well known that some cats can
transmit toxoplasmosis in their feces and that humans can contract
this illness by contact with cat feces. Toilet trained cats will
eliminate this risk for obvious reasons.

There is research on rats that indicate that silica particles are
cancer producing. I am not aware of research done on cats.

Cats who have respiratory illnesses have much higher levels of silica
in their lungs so their may be a connection between clay litters and
respiratory illnesses.

It is difficult to do such long term studies since most all house cats
use litter and you would need a control. You cannot compare to outdoor
cats since outdoor environment generally is harsher than indoor
environment so that there would be too many confounding variables.

You would need to get a group of toilet trained cats and compare them
over long term with litter trained cats. AFAIK this has not been done.

It just makes sense to me that if you can avoid having your cat lick
off their paws, feces and cat litter, and avoid having them inhale the
silica particles in clay litter that it would be safer and better for
them.

But I sure can understand not wanting to take the trouble to toilet
train a cat. While toilet training Precious was not that difficult it
did take a lot of time and patience and I suspect that some cats may
be more difficult to train than others. I did it because I truly
believed that it was in Precious' best interest so the time and energy
were well worth it.

I suspect that there are those who in an effort to justify their
decision to use litter will want to rationalize why it is better than
toilet training or why it is not really that harmful. I mean what cat
owner would want to expose their cats to a harmful and toxic
environment. So the reaction of many of you is really not that
surprising.

I originally made the post simply to tell you all of my success with
toilet training a cat in the hope of generating discussion about it
and to help anyone who might be interested in trying it.

I really have no interest in where this thread seems to be going. If
anyone is seriously interested in discussing this, fine. If anyone
wants to try to toilet train their kittens/cats I might be of help in
getting you started. I do understand that these groups often
attract insecure and sophomoric people who have difficulty
communicating in a mature manner resulting in their flaming people
gratuitously. Such is the nature of usenet. I also understand that
these groups often developed cliques and then when a new poster
arrives they may feel threatened and respond accordingly.

From now on I will only respond to those who seem genuinely interested
in discussing this topic. For all you others, knock yourselves out:-)


RC

January 23rd 06, 04:03 AM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 02:42:41 GMT, Diane
> wrote:

>> >Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.
>>
>> Does that mean that cigarettes are safe because of all those ninety
>> year old people who have been smoking for most of their lives?? There
>> are probably as many 18-20 year old cats using cat litter as there are
>> nine year old smokers. They both are fairly uncommon.
>
>Wow, that's quite an argument. A nonsensical one, but quite an argument.

I am sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought your comment was
suggesting that because some cats live to 18-22 years using cat litter
that cat litter was not harmful. That is not what you were implying?

If that is not what you were saying then I apologize.

If that was what you were saying then by analogy saying that all those
ninety year old men who smoked cigarettes are dying from cigarette
smoking would be similar argument which as you seemed to understand
was a nonsensical one.

Just because some people can smoke cigarettes and live to a ripe old
age does not mean that cigarettes are safe. And just because some cats
can live to 18-22 years and use cat litter does not mean that cat
litter is safe. Sorry you think that my analogy is nonsensical. But I
found that your original assertion was pretty nonsensical unless I
misinterpreted it.

If you would like to clarify go right ahead.

RC

NMR
January 23rd 06, 06:17 AM
> wrote in message
...
> Diane > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How would you know if their sickness was secondary to the litter
>>> box,especially the silica based litter? How many years are taken off
>>> each life of a cat that must step in this unsanitary litter every day
>>> of their life.
>>
>>Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.
>>
>>I like the "troll" theory. And the lazy boy one. :)
>
> I just see a lot of people that like being argumentative and giving
> the usual welcome a new poster to rpchb.
>
Bingo this person wins a prize to bad the prize is the truth

January 23rd 06, 06:24 AM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:30:47 GMT, Diane
> wrote:

>In article >,
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 02:42:41 GMT, Diane
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >Yep, all these cats living to 18-22 years old are dying from cat litter.
>> >>
>> >> Does that mean that cigarettes are safe because of all those ninety
>> >> year old people who have been smoking for most of their lives?? There
>> >> are probably as many 18-20 year old cats using cat litter as there are
>> >> nine year old smokers. They both are fairly uncommon.
>> >
>> >Wow, that's quite an argument. A nonsensical one, but quite an argument.
>>
>> I am sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought your comment was
>> suggesting that because some cats live to 18-22 years using cat litter
>> that cat litter was not harmful. That is not what you were implying?
>>
>> If that is not what you were saying then I apologize.
>>
>> If that was what you were saying then by analogy saying that all those
>> ninety year old men who smoked cigarettes are dying from cigarette
>> smoking would be similar argument which as you seemed to understand
>> was a nonsensical one.
>
>Not at all. There is a lot of evidence about the dangers of smoking, and
>a disproportionate amount of smokers die of lung cancer, emphysema, and
>heart disease compared to the nonsmoking general population. There is a
>direct cause and effect link between one and the other, with smoking
>raising the risk significantly. Some people can and do smoke 'til
>they're 90, perhaps protected by genetics, but that does not change the
>fact that there is significantly heightened risk for many -- risk that
>has been demonstrated.

I agree. And just because there are some cats that use litter and live
to 20 does not mean that on the average cats would like longer and
healthier if they were toilet trained instead. We just don't have the
data since so few cats are toilet trained.



>> Just because some people can smoke cigarettes and live to a ripe old
>> age does not mean that cigarettes are safe. And just because some cats
>> can live to 18-22 years and use cat litter does not mean that cat
>> litter is safe. Sorry you think that my analogy is nonsensical. But I
>> found that your original assertion was pretty nonsensical unless I
>> misinterpreted it.
>
>Most indoor cats live to ripe old ages these days.

Most cats live 18-22 years?? Could you please tell me where your data
is from.


> Those who die younger
>than, say, 14, tend to have a genetic predisposition to problems, or
>have contracted a life-threatening disease.

Assuming you are correct about this, it could be that the combination
of using litter plus a predisposition may increase the likelihood of
problems. I don't know but common sense tells me that toilet training
would be the safest method.


> In any case, no one has
>shown *any* linkage to litter boxes and cat morbidity. Unlike with
>smokers, cats are not dying off en masse from using a litter box.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The jury is out. But
cats with respiratory problems have a much greater concentration of
silica in their lungs than cats without respiratory problems. Silica
is in the clay litters.
>
>The reason you've been accused of trolling is that you took a morally
>superior attitude about the "risks" of cat litter with no evidence to
>support your position, only a belief that makes sense mainly to you.



Morally superior attitude?? You seem a bit defensive. It is my opinion
that a toilet trained cat is exposed to fewer toxins than a litter
trained cat and that it is less likely to develop physical problems.
It is my opinion based upon common sense. It has nothing to do with
moral superiority.

Are you saying it does not make sense to you that if a cat completely
avoids contact with its feces, urine, and litter that it is more
likely that it will remain healthy?? Do you think it is more likely
that a cat will remain healthy if it is exposed on a daily basis to
feces, urine (licking it off its paws) and eating/inhaling litter
compared to toilet training. Please explain your logic. Remember that
just because there is no scientific study showing that litter trained
cats have a higher morbidity does not mean it is not so. Such a study
would be extremely difficult to do.



> I
>personally don't care what you do, and if others wish to spend their
>time training their cats, that's fine. But those of us who use litter
>boxes aren't doing wrong by our cats or ourselves, either, just because
>we eschew your method.

Maybe you are and maybe you are not. You don't know that exposure to
all those contaminants is not increasing the risk of disease. Common
sense tells me toilet trained cats will be exposed to fewer
contaminants and toxins. We can agree to disagree.
>
>I think there's a ton more dangerous environmental factors than litter,
>which, if well maintained, should not contain any fecal matter.

I am sure that there are. We can only control those factors that we
can control. Litter is one factor that can be controlled/eliminated.

I understand that you don't think there is any fecal matter once a cat
has defecated into a litter box if it is well maintained. It is loaded
with fecal matter even after removing the large pieces of feces. Fecal
matter gets on the cat's paws and they then walk around the house. The
only litter without any fecal matter is fresh litter.



> My cat
>does his business once a day, neatly, and I scoop. End of story.

I am sure you are a very conscientious litter scooper. But you are
kidding yourself if you think that there is not a lot of fecal matter
remaining in the litter after you scoop. It is loaded with fecal
material. And it does not take much fecal material to cause disease. I
don't know if you are old enough to remember polio. That is
transmitted by the fecal oral route and you would not see the feces
that was being transferred since it was so small. That is why hand
washing is so important.

RC

Wendy
January 23rd 06, 12:11 PM
"Diane" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> In article >,
> "NMR" > wrote:
>
>> "Diane" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>> > In article >,
>> > Joe Canuck > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Show me a study on the effects of felines using litter boxes.
>> >
>> > Yes, that's what I would like to see -- the number of cats killed by
>> > litter boxes. I hinted at it earlier, but it was not forthcoming. :)
>> >
>>
>> Is it just litter boxes or can we include cat litter in this if so how
>> many of us know about the dangers of clumping litter
>
> Or the dangers of cat beds. They must be loaded with germies. :)
>
> --
> Web site: http://www.slywy.com/
> Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/
> Journal: http://slywy.blogspot.com/

What about anywhere the cat sits shortly after getting out of the box. I'm
sure there are unsanitary 'butt prints' all over the place. How often does
the op shampoo and sanitize his floor coverings.

W

---MIKE---
January 23rd 06, 02:02 PM
RC wrote:

>>A troll is an individual who deliberately
>> makes an inflammatory post to get a
>> negative reaction from people.

A troll is also a person who starts a thread which he knows will start
an argument and then persists on and on when challenged.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

January 23rd 06, 05:31 PM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0500,
(---MIKE---) wrote:

>RC wrote:
>
>>>A troll is an individual who deliberately
>>> makes an inflammatory post to get a
>>> negative reaction from people.
>
>A troll is also a person who starts a thread which he knows will start
>an argument and then persists on and on when challenged.

So anyone who brings up a controversial topic and then tries to
respond to challenges to his opinion is a troll?? Or do you like to
just make up definitions as you go along?

Actually trolls usually drop their bomb and then watch the fireworks.
For example someone coming into this newsgroup saying that cats are
stupid and dogs are the best pets or something of that nature.

Often posters are erroneously called a troll when members are unable
to rebut their arguments. They get frustrated and start calling them
names. This is especially true of new [posters in a group.

RC
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

January 23rd 06, 05:45 PM
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:20:07 -0600, "Barb"
> wrote:

>You've done a great thing and over the years have saved yourself a ton of
>money. ( Litter isn't cheap.)

Money was not really my primary consideration although it is a nice
side benefit. I spent a total of less than $30 on litter to toilet
train my cat and if I am lucky will never have to spend a penny more
on litter again. Now I can use the saved money to pamper Precious with
toys:-) I probably saved well over a thousand dollars over the life of
Precious.

My primary consideration however was the health and well being of
Precious.
>
>On TV I saw a grown cat looking into the toilet bowl and putting her paw in
>and then the cat flushed the toilet and then ran over and watched the water
>go down.

Precious likes to watch the water run down after I flush the toilet
too. Every time I go into the bathroom she follows just to watch the
flush. She is not at all spooked by the water.
>
> Me, I don't think I would have the patience to toilet train a cat.

It does take a lot of patience and persistence which is why it is
ironic that I was called a "lazy boy" for doing so. But I did not
really take that or other derogatory insults personally since they
were likely made by very insecure and immature individuals who have
nothing better to do.

But the rewards in terms of cost, time and likely improved health of
cat are well worth it. In addition to saving all that money I am
saving a lot of time in dealing with litter and litter box. And if I
am wrong and it is not healthier for the cat, it certainly is not more
harmful than litter. It may just be a wash.

RC

Barb
January 23rd 06, 06:20 PM
You've done a great thing and over the years have saved yourself a ton of
money. ( Litter isn't cheap.)

On TV I saw a grown cat looking into the toilet bowl and putting her paw in
and then the cat flushed the toilet and then ran over and watched the water
go down.

Me, I don't think I would have the patience to toilet train a cat.
--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 06:26 PM
Wendy wrote:
What about anywhere the cat sits shortly after getting out of the box.
I'm
> sure there are unsanitary 'butt prints' all over the place. How often does
> the op shampoo and sanitize his floor coverings.
>
> W

Not only his floors, but just think, kitty jumps up on the kitchen
counter and sits there with her butt, fresh from pooping. Ewww, those
germs!!!!!!!!

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 06:32 PM
wrote:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The jury is out. But
> cats with respiratory problems have a much greater concentration of
> silica in their lungs than cats without respiratory problems. Silica
> is in the clay litters.

I use a wheat based all natural litter for my cats. There has been
some talk about the dangers of clumping litters but I don't believe
anything has ever been proven, one way or the other.

NMR
January 23rd 06, 07:28 PM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
> Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The jury is out. But
>> cats with respiratory problems have a much greater concentration of
>> silica in their lungs than cats without respiratory problems. Silica
>> is in the clay litters.
>
> I use a wheat based all natural litter for my cats. There has been
> some talk about the dangers of clumping litters but I don't believe
> anything has ever been proven, one way or the other.

Goog le the dangers of clumping litter it is usually not dangerous but can
specially in small cats or kittens cause blockage

PawsForThought
January 23rd 06, 10:02 PM
NMR wrote:
> "PawsForThought" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > wrote:
> > Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The jury is out. But
> >> cats with respiratory problems have a much greater concentration of
> >> silica in their lungs than cats without respiratory problems. Silica
> >> is in the clay litters.
> >
> > I use a wheat based all natural litter for my cats. There has been
> > some talk about the dangers of clumping litters but I don't believe
> > anything has ever been proven, one way or the other.
>
> Goog le the dangers of clumping litter it is usually not dangerous but can
> specially in small cats or kittens cause blockage

I do remember reading some articles about it. I used to use clumping
litter, but stopped after my cat who was old and ill had it stuck to
her paws like cement, and I do mean cement. It was horrible! I
imagine because she was so ill that her not being able to get out of
the litterbox quickly and maybe standing in the litter for several
minutes caused the litter to become impacted to her paws. I ended up
having to very, very carefully cut it out with small manicure scissors.
I can imagine what that stuff would do to the insides of cat.

Joe Canuck
January 23rd 06, 10:48 PM
wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0500,
> (---MIKE---) wrote:
>
>
>>RC wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>A troll is an individual who deliberately
>>>>makes an inflammatory post to get a
>>>>negative reaction from people.
>>
>>A troll is also a person who starts a thread which he knows will start
>>an argument and then persists on and on when challenged.
>
>
> So anyone who brings up a controversial topic and then tries to
> respond to challenges to his opinion is a troll?? Or do you like to
> just make up definitions as you go along?
>
> Actually trolls usually drop their bomb and then watch the fireworks.
> For example someone coming into this newsgroup saying that cats are
> stupid and dogs are the best pets or something of that nature.
>
> Often posters are erroneously called a troll when members are unable
> to rebut their arguments. They get frustrated and start calling them
> names. This is especially true of new [posters in a group.
>

Here is one for you...

Cats don't wipe their butts with toilet paper. There are always little
bits, even if not visible to the eye, of crap left on their behinds.

These little bits of crap may drop off on their own or be deposited when
the cat sits somewhere.

To get rid of this issue, do you plan on teaching your cat to use toilet
paper? ...or do you have another solution?




> RC
>
>>
>> ---MIKE---
>>
>>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>>>>(44 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>

Barb
January 24th 06, 05:14 PM
Look,

My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I never
place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.

There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm rests
in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
equipment.

Wash your hands before you eat.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.

Joe Canuck
January 24th 06, 09:49 PM
Barb wrote:

> Look,
>
> My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I never
> place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>
> There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm rests
> in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
> equipment.
>
> Wash your hands before you eat.
>
> --
> Barb
> Of course I don't look busy,
> I did it right the first time.
>
>

Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
the washroom, you are contaminated.

The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
contaminated.

CatNipped
January 24th 06, 10:44 PM
"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
> Barb wrote:
>
>> Look,
>>
>> My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I
>> never
>> place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>>
>> There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm
>> rests
>> in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
>> equipment.
>>
>> Wash your hands before you eat.
>>
>> --
>> Barb
>> Of course I don't look busy,
>> I did it right the first time.
>>
>>
>
> Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
> the washroom, you are contaminated.
>
> The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
> contaminated.

Yep, people should just quit worrying about it and just accept that ****
happens! ;>

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

January 24th 06, 11:17 PM
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:44:21 -0600, "CatNipped"
> wrote:

>"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
>> Barb wrote:
>>
>>> Look,
>>>
>>> My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I
>>> never
>>> place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>>>
>>> There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm
>>> rests
>>> in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> Wash your hands before you eat.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Barb
>>> Of course I don't look busy,
>>> I did it right the first time.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
>> the washroom, you are contaminated.
>>
>> The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
>> contaminated.
>
>Yep, people should just quit worrying about it and just accept that ****
>happens! ;>

Actually people should realize that they cannot completely eliminate
germs, bacteria, fecal material etc from their lives. However they can
take steps to reducing the exposure. So reasonably frequent washing of
hands, toilet training your cat, etc can be done realizing that
neither will absolutely completely eliminate the exposure. Nothing in
life is 100% (cue Joe "I love to argue" Canuck to dispute this as he
appears to be an all or nothing thinker). All we can do is our
reasonable best.

For example just because you cannot eliminate all germs all the time
from your hands is not a reason to stop washing your hands altogether.
Hand washing just reduces the chance of getting a germ. It does not
eliminate it altogether. Toilet training a cat in the same was does
not completely eliminate the chances of fecal matter being transmitted
by the cat but it sure reduces it greatly due to none of the
contaminants (feces, litter) getting on the paws which will then be
transferred to other areas of the house and to the GI tract of the cat
when it cleans itself.

RC

CatNipped
January 24th 06, 11:27 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:44:21 -0600, "CatNipped"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
>>> Barb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Look,
>>>>
>>>> My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I
>>>> never
>>>> place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>>>>
>>>> There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm
>>>> rests
>>>> in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
>>>> equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Wash your hands before you eat.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Barb
>>>> Of course I don't look busy,
>>>> I did it right the first time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
>>> the washroom, you are contaminated.
>>>
>>> The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
>>> contaminated.
>>
>>Yep, people should just quit worrying about it and just accept that ****
>>happens! ;>
>
> Actually people should realize that they cannot completely eliminate
> germs, bacteria, fecal material etc from their lives. However they can
> take steps to reducing the exposure. So reasonably frequent washing of
> hands, toilet training your cat, etc can be done realizing that
> neither will absolutely completely eliminate the exposure. Nothing in
> life is 100% (cue Joe "I love to argue" Canuck to dispute this as he
> appears to be an all or nothing thinker). All we can do is our
> reasonable best.
>
> For example just because you cannot eliminate all germs all the time
> from your hands is not a reason to stop washing your hands altogether.
> Hand washing just reduces the chance of getting a germ. It does not
> eliminate it altogether. Toilet training a cat in the same was does
> not completely eliminate the chances of fecal matter being transmitted
> by the cat but it sure reduces it greatly due to none of the
> contaminants (feces, litter) getting on the paws which will then be
> transferred to other areas of the house and to the GI tract of the cat
> when it cleans itself.
>
> RC

Just a suggestion, but you might want to stop worrying so much about germs
and start worrying about developing a sense of humor! ;>

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

Joe Canuck
January 25th 06, 01:28 AM
wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:44:21 -0600, "CatNipped"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Barb wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Look,
>>>>
>>>>My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I
>>>>never
>>>>place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>>>>
>>>>There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm
>>>>rests
>>>>in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
>>>>equipment.
>>>>
>>>>Wash your hands before you eat.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Barb
>>>>Of course I don't look busy,
>>>>I did it right the first time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
>>>the washroom, you are contaminated.
>>>
>>>The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
>>>contaminated.
>>
>>Yep, people should just quit worrying about it and just accept that ****
>>happens! ;>
>
>
> Actually people should realize that they cannot completely eliminate
> germs, bacteria, fecal material etc from their lives. However they can
> take steps to reducing the exposure. So reasonably frequent washing of
> hands, toilet training your cat, etc can be done realizing that
> neither will absolutely completely eliminate the exposure. Nothing in
> life is 100% (cue Joe "I love to argue" Canuck to dispute this as he
> appears to be an all or nothing thinker). All we can do is our
> reasonable best.
>
> For example just because you cannot eliminate all germs all the time
> from your hands is not a reason to stop washing your hands altogether.
> Hand washing just reduces the chance of getting a germ. It does not
> eliminate it altogether. Toilet training a cat in the same was does
> not completely eliminate the chances of fecal matter being transmitted
> by the cat but it sure reduces it greatly due to none of the
> contaminants (feces, litter) getting on the paws which will then be
> transferred to other areas of the house and to the GI tract of the cat
> when it cleans itself.
>
> RC
>

Shucks, and here I thought you would focus on the more practical matters
of how to eliminate germs.

Instead, you appear to be trolling. :-D

Cat Herder
January 25th 06, 05:50 AM
Joe Canuck wrote:
> Barb wrote:
>
>> Look,
>>
>> My cats do go on the counter and the kitchen and diningroom table. I
>> never
>> place food directly on any of those items, always on a plate.
>>
>> There are minute amounts of fecal matter all over, including the arm
>> rests
>> in theaters, banisters and worst offenders of all are children's play
>> equipment.
>>
>> Wash your hands before you eat.
>>
>> --
>> Barb
>> Of course I don't look busy,
>> I did it right the first time.
>>
>>
>
> Washing hands doesn't help. The minute you touch the door knob to escape
> the washroom, you are contaminated.
>
> The minute you touch the chair to pull it out and sit yourself, you are
> contaminated.
>

Oh, don't go perpetuating that myth, you are much better of washing your
hands after using a public restroom. They have actually studied this in
Germany and found that the doorknob was not a good place to bacteria to
develop because it was made of stainless steel. Sometimes if there is a
trash can right at the the door I get all "Monk" and I open it with my
last used paper towel and trow it in the trash before leaving.

Don't forget cats (most) clean their buts with their tongues, they've
been doing it for centuries so it's a well implanted behavior and can be
assumed it is safe for them. They are fine with it, believe me..

The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
give me so much, it's the least I can do.

Kudos for teaching your cat that, teaching an animal a trick is
something very commendable on it's own, teaching a cat to use the toilet
would rank very high on any trick list. Like you see it's not
everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
toilet train a cat there.. ; )


Maybe if you took pictures of the process you can make an Angelfire site
explaining other people how you did it. "If you build it and put the
right words in the right places Google will find it"

I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
fun because the choice is always his.

-
chris

January 25th 06, 08:59 AM
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:50:08 +0100, Cat Herder >
wrote:

>Don't forget cats (most) clean their buts with their tongues, they've
>been doing it for centuries so it's a well implanted behavior and can be
>assumed it is safe for them. They are fine with it, believe me..

I agree it is probably safe for cats to clean their own butt. Perhaps
that answers Canuck Joe's question about how a cat cleans their butt
without toilet paper. And when illnesses are contracted by the fecal
oral route such as polio it is the fecal material from other people
that causes problems, not our own fecal material.
>
>The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
>and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
>it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
>pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
>give me so much, it's the least I can do.

Yes, it is the litter that they clean off their paws and inhale that
could be a problem for the health of the cat. If you have not tried
Feline Pine I would highly recommend it. It smells great and lasts a
very long time. No need to scoop out urine, only solid wastes as the
urine turns to sawdust.
>
>Kudos for teaching your cat that, teaching an animal a trick is
>something very commendable on it's own, teaching a cat to use the toilet
>would rank very high on any trick list.

I was surprised at how easy it was. I think it was because I went very
slowly and spent much time with Precious as she did her thing in the
toilet. I would say I averaged about 30 minutes to an hour a day in
working with her on the toilet training. Most of the time was spent
waiting for her to go. The best strategy was to crate train her such
that all night she would be confined to a crate and then let out early
in the morning to do her business.



> Like you see it's not
>everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
>those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
>too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
>everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
>toilet train a cat there.. ; )

I agree. My initial post was not at all inflammatory and simply
described in detail why I decided to toilet train and how I went about
it. I also made myself available to answer any questions someone might
have. Many of the responses to my post have been inflammatory,
provocative and troll-like. But as I said before I realize that often
certain usenet regulars are just juvenile individuals who have
difficulty communicating in a mature manner.
>
>
>Maybe if you took pictures of the process you can make an Angelfire site
>explaining other people how you did it. "If you build it and put the
>right words in the right places Google will find it"

Actually I am going to be getting a video camera so when I get a link
to Precious doing her thing I will post it. I also discovered a great
group specifically for discussing toilet training cats. It is
moderated so that the troll-like anti-toilet training folks would not
be heard. It is at Yahoo Groups.
>
>I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
>fun because the choice is always his.

Of course. If you want to try it, the earlier the better. How old is
your kitty? I think the reason that it went so smoothly is that I
started the toilet training right after she was weaned from her
mother. She only used litter for very short period of time and the
litter gradually reduced over that time. It is called the disappearing
litter method.


The key is to go very slowly, spend a lot of time with the kitty and
give him much praise and reward for good behavior.

Good luck.

RC
>
>-
>chris

Joe Canuck
January 25th 06, 11:53 AM
wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:50:08 +0100, Cat Herder >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Don't forget cats (most) clean their buts with their tongues, they've
>>been doing it for centuries so it's a well implanted behavior and can be
>>assumed it is safe for them. They are fine with it, believe me..
>
>
> I agree it is probably safe for cats to clean their own butt. Perhaps
> that answers Canuck Joe's question about how a cat cleans their butt
> without toilet paper. And when illnesses are contracted by the fecal

Correction: That wasn't a question. Learn to read.

> oral route such as polio it is the fecal material from other people
> that causes problems, not our own fecal material.
>
>>The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
>>and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
>>it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
>>pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
>>give me so much, it's the least I can do.
>
>
> Yes, it is the litter that they clean off their paws and inhale that
> could be a problem for the health of the cat. If you have not tried
> Feline Pine I would highly recommend it. It smells great and lasts a
> very long time. No need to scoop out urine, only solid wastes as the
> urine turns to sawdust.
>
>>Kudos for teaching your cat that, teaching an animal a trick is
>>something very commendable on it's own, teaching a cat to use the toilet
>>would rank very high on any trick list.
>
>
> I was surprised at how easy it was. I think it was because I went very
> slowly and spent much time with Precious as she did her thing in the
> toilet. I would say I averaged about 30 minutes to an hour a day in
> working with her on the toilet training. Most of the time was spent
> waiting for her to go. The best strategy was to crate train her such
> that all night she would be confined to a crate and then let out early
> in the morning to do her business.
>
>
>
>
>>Like you see it's not
>>everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
>>those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
>>too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
>>everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
>>toilet train a cat there.. ; )
>
>
> I agree. My initial post was not at all inflammatory and simply
> described in detail why I decided to toilet train and how I went about
> it. I also made myself available to answer any questions someone might
> have. Many of the responses to my post have been inflammatory,
> provocative and troll-like. But as I said before I realize that often
> certain usenet regulars are just juvenile individuals who have
> difficulty communicating in a mature manner.
>
>>
>>Maybe if you took pictures of the process you can make an Angelfire site
>>explaining other people how you did it. "If you build it and put the
>>right words in the right places Google will find it"
>
>
> Actually I am going to be getting a video camera so when I get a link
> to Precious doing her thing I will post it. I also discovered a great
> group specifically for discussing toilet training cats. It is
> moderated so that the troll-like anti-toilet training folks would not
> be heard. It is at Yahoo Groups.
>
>>I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
>>fun because the choice is always his.
>
>
> Of course. If you want to try it, the earlier the better. How old is
> your kitty? I think the reason that it went so smoothly is that I
> started the toilet training right after she was weaned from her
> mother. She only used litter for very short period of time and the
> litter gradually reduced over that time. It is called the disappearing
> litter method.
>
>
> The key is to go very slowly, spend a lot of time with the kitty and
> give him much praise and reward for good behavior.
>
> Good luck.
>
> RC
>
>>-
>>chris
>
>

Cat Herder
January 25th 06, 05:20 PM
>>The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
>>and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
>>it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
>>pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
>>give me so much, it's the least I can do.
>
>
> Yes, it is the litter that they clean off their paws and inhale that
> could be a problem for the health of the cat. If you have not tried
> Feline Pine I would highly recommend it. It smells great and lasts a
> very long time. No need to scoop out urine, only solid wastes as the
> urine turns to sawdust.
>

I'm no in the US, but I do use a litter that is made from wood
byproducts, mine does clump the urine and just starts turning into
sawdust when it is becoming saturated, right on time for the new one..



>>Like you see it's not
>>everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
>>those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
>>too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
>>everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
>>toilet train a cat there.. ; )
>
>
> I agree. My initial post was not at all inflammatory and simply
> described in detail why I decided to toilet train and how I went about
> it. I also made myself available to answer any questions someone might
> have. Many of the responses to my post have been inflammatory,
> provocative and troll-like. But as I said before I realize that often
> certain usenet regulars are just juvenile individuals who have
> difficulty communicating in a mature manner.

Yeah, Usenet regulars can be quite territorial, I can just imagine
people ****ing all over their monitor.

I mean, some posters where out of line, but after your 2nd or 3rd post
you started to sound like we are all mean and hate our cats for not
toilet training them as if it was the only way to go, this is what may
have tickled people off, it did got me writing to you in the first place
and I hope everybody can see I mean well..


>
>>I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
>>fun because the choice is always his.
>
>
> Of course. If you want to try it, the earlier the better. How old is
> your kitty? I think the reason that it went so smoothly is that I
> started the toilet training right after she was weaned from her
> mother. She only used litter for very short period of time and the
> litter gradually reduced over that time. It is called the disappearing
> litter method.
>
>
> The key is to go very slowly, spend a lot of time with the kitty and
> give him much praise and reward for good behavior.
>

Both my cats just had their 5th birthday, they are pretty much happy
about the "I do what they want when they want" arrangement we got going
here, not sure they would bother with the reward system now, I'm also Ok
with it as long as they put up with all the new places I had to move to
over the last 5 years.

--
chris

January 25th 06, 11:04 PM
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:20:02 +0100, Cat Herder >
wrote:

>
>>>The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
>>>and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
>>>it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
>>>pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
>>>give me so much, it's the least I can do.
>>
>>
>> Yes, it is the litter that they clean off their paws and inhale that
>> could be a problem for the health of the cat. If you have not tried
>> Feline Pine I would highly recommend it. It smells great and lasts a
>> very long time. No need to scoop out urine, only solid wastes as the
>> urine turns to sawdust.
>>
>
>I'm no in the US, but I do use a litter that is made from wood
>byproducts, mine does clump the urine and just starts turning into
>sawdust when it is becoming saturated, right on time for the new one..

Sounds very similar to feline pine. I was amazed at how the pellets
are converted to sawdust with absolutely no urine odor. I would
definitely go with a similar product if I was using litter on a
continuous basis.
>
>
>
>>>Like you see it's not
>>>everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
>>>those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
>>>too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
>>>everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
>>>toilet train a cat there.. ; )
>>
>>
>> I agree. My initial post was not at all inflammatory and simply
>> described in detail why I decided to toilet train and how I went about
>> it. I also made myself available to answer any questions someone might
>> have. Many of the responses to my post have been inflammatory,
>> provocative and troll-like. But as I said before I realize that often
>> certain usenet regulars are just juvenile individuals who have
>> difficulty communicating in a mature manner.
>
>Yeah, Usenet regulars can be quite territorial, I can just imagine
>people ****ing all over their monitor.

Yeah, I guess some people are not toilet trained either:-)
>
>I mean, some posters where out of line, but after your 2nd or 3rd post
>you started to sound like we are all mean and hate our cats for not
>toilet training them as if it was the only way to go, this is what may
>have tickled people off, it did got me writing to you in the first place
>and I hope everybody can see I mean well..

It certainly was not my intention to do that but I was simply
responding to inappropriate posts by several members here. The only
thing in my original post that may have stirred someone up was my
comment about how I wanted to avoid the tracking of feces and litter,
and the possible health concerns to the cats. If someone was feeling
unsure about their decision to use litter that might cause them to
feel defensive. AFter all if you feel comfortable with your decision
to use litter, you would not get upset if someone talked about toilet
training and why they were doing it.



In going back to old posts (I am new to this group) I see that they
have a pattern of being argumentative. I will not name names since it
is likely they will respond to this post anyway with their typical
inflammatory nature. But it is characteristic of usenet groups to have
several regulars who become very territorial and get threatened by new
posters who they see as intruding into their territory. When it
becomes obvious what their modus operandi is I generally just ignore
their posts.
>
>
>>
>>>I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
>>>fun because the choice is always his.
>>
>>
>> Of course. If you want to try it, the earlier the better. How old is
>> your kitty? I think the reason that it went so smoothly is that I
>> started the toilet training right after she was weaned from her
>> mother. She only used litter for very short period of time and the
>> litter gradually reduced over that time. It is called the disappearing
>> litter method.
>>
>>
>> The key is to go very slowly, spend a lot of time with the kitty and
>> give him much praise and reward for good behavior.
>>
>
>Both my cats just had their 5th birthday, they are pretty much happy
>about the "I do what they want when they want" arrangement we got going
>here, not sure they would bother with the reward system now, I'm also Ok
>with it as long as they put up with all the new places I had to move to
>over the last 5 years.

Cool. Good luck to you. And may your cats live long healthy and happy
lives.

RC

Joe Canuck
January 25th 06, 11:14 PM
wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:20:02 +0100, Cat Herder >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>>The dust I agree with you, I found a litter that they like, clumps well
>>>>and doesn't have much dust if any, I clean it carefully daily and change
>>>>it every week to a washed one with new litter, what can sometimes be a
>>>>pain but it builds my character and its nice to have that chore, they
>>>>give me so much, it's the least I can do.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, it is the litter that they clean off their paws and inhale that
>>>could be a problem for the health of the cat. If you have not tried
>>>Feline Pine I would highly recommend it. It smells great and lasts a
>>>very long time. No need to scoop out urine, only solid wastes as the
>>>urine turns to sawdust.
>>>
>>
>>I'm no in the US, but I do use a litter that is made from wood
>>byproducts, mine does clump the urine and just starts turning into
>>sawdust when it is becoming saturated, right on time for the new one..
>
>
> Sounds very similar to feline pine. I was amazed at how the pellets
> are converted to sawdust with absolutely no urine odor. I would
> definitely go with a similar product if I was using litter on a
> continuous basis.
>
>>
>>
>>>>Like you see it's not
>>>>everybody's cup of tea, but it's not worth fighting over it on Usenet,
>>>>those posts are archived forever and the "you trolled" "did not" "did
>>>>too's" just clutters a very nice (the best) searchable database of
>>>>everything related to cats health and behavior, you can even find how to
>>>>toilet train a cat there.. ; )
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree. My initial post was not at all inflammatory and simply
>>>described in detail why I decided to toilet train and how I went about
>>>it. I also made myself available to answer any questions someone might
>>>have. Many of the responses to my post have been inflammatory,
>>>provocative and troll-like. But as I said before I realize that often
>>>certain usenet regulars are just juvenile individuals who have
>>>difficulty communicating in a mature manner.
>>
>>Yeah, Usenet regulars can be quite territorial, I can just imagine
>>people ****ing all over their monitor.
>
>
> Yeah, I guess some people are not toilet trained either:-)
>
>>I mean, some posters where out of line, but after your 2nd or 3rd post
>>you started to sound like we are all mean and hate our cats for not
>>toilet training them as if it was the only way to go, this is what may
>>have tickled people off, it did got me writing to you in the first place
>>and I hope everybody can see I mean well..
>
>
> It certainly was not my intention to do that but I was simply
> responding to inappropriate posts by several members here. The only
> thing in my original post that may have stirred someone up was my
> comment about how I wanted to avoid the tracking of feces and litter,
> and the possible health concerns to the cats. If someone was feeling
> unsure about their decision to use litter that might cause them to
> feel defensive. AFter all if you feel comfortable with your decision
> to use litter, you would not get upset if someone talked about toilet
> training and why they were doing it.
>
>
>
> In going back to old posts (I am new to this group) I see that they
> have a pattern of being argumentative. I will not name names since it
> is likely they will respond to this post anyway with their typical
> inflammatory nature. But it is characteristic of usenet groups to have
> several regulars who become very territorial and get threatened by new
> posters who they see as intruding into their territory. When it
> becomes obvious what their modus operandi is I generally just ignore
> their posts.
>
>>
>>>>I would like to try it with a kitty someday, as long as kitty is having
>>>>fun because the choice is always his.
>>>
>>>
>>>Of course. If you want to try it, the earlier the better. How old is
>>>your kitty? I think the reason that it went so smoothly is that I
>>>started the toilet training right after she was weaned from her
>>>mother. She only used litter for very short period of time and the
>>>litter gradually reduced over that time. It is called the disappearing
>>>litter method.
>>>
>>>
>>> The key is to go very slowly, spend a lot of time with the kitty and
>>>give him much praise and reward for good behavior.
>>>
>>
>>Both my cats just had their 5th birthday, they are pretty much happy
>>about the "I do what they want when they want" arrangement we got going
>>here, not sure they would bother with the reward system now, I'm also Ok
>>with it as long as they put up with all the new places I had to move to
>>over the last 5 years.
>
>
> Cool. Good luck to you. And may your cats live long healthy and happy
> lives.
>
> RC
>

You are certainly welcome to participate as you have.

ChrisK.
January 25th 06, 11:51 PM
>>I'm not in the US, but I do use a litter that is made from wood
>>byproducts, mine does clump the urine and just starts turning into
>>sawdust when it is becoming saturated, right on time for the new one..
>
>
> Sounds very similar to feline pine. I was amazed at how the pellets
> are converted to sawdust with absolutely no urine odor. I would
> definitely go with a similar product if I was using litter on a
> continuous basis.
>

One litter I've heard about that sounded really interesting was Purina
Yesterday's News, I would love try that. Plus its made from recycled
newspaper, what better use for it than that?

A second advantage I see in those litters is that they are much lighter
than "mineral" litters.


I also don't get Silica litters.. It's so strange, I've never tried it
and don't think it would work so well, not to mention every time you get
a silica bag with something it says *Do not Eat* on them..

>
> In going back to old posts (I am new to this group) I see that they
> have a pattern of being argumentative. I will not name names since it
> is likely they will respond to this post anyway with their typical
> inflammatory nature. But it is characteristic of usenet groups to have
> several regulars who become very territorial and get threatened by new
> posters who they see as intruding into their territory. When it
> becomes obvious what their modus operandi is I generally just ignore
> their posts.

Usenet 101, it's actually quite like Life 101..

I'm planning on properly introducing my cats to the group as soon as I
upload some pictures..

>
> Cool. Good luck to you. And may your cats live long healthy and happy
> lives.
>
> RC
>

Thanks, same to you.

--
chris

--I always wanted to name a cat "Cat"--