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Candace
March 2nd 06, 03:34 AM
I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
sealing my poor cat's fate.

As you may recall, Scottie was hospitalized for a week with a fever of
unknown origin, lethargy, and inappetance. He was on IV and oral
antibiotics but his fever did not respond. After a few days, the vet
wanted to put him on baytril. I had read about the possibility of
baytril causing blindness in cats and expressed my concerns so the vet,
instead, put him on oral doxycycline.

Now, after the fact, I have read that oral doxycycline can be a caustic
agent in cats which can lead to esophagitis and that, in turn, can lead
to a stricture (narrowing). I have several cites to this effect. It
should either be administered in liquid form or followed by a water
chaser. I was there once when he received his oral meds. No chaser
was given and it was not in liquid form.

When we took him home, still with a fever, a week later, I was given
oral doxycycline to give him. Almost immediately upon getting home,
however, he began his regurgitating so I never gave him any. A couple
of days later we began the steroid treatments which really didn't help
much either. He began exhibiting his odd difficulty in swallowing and
regurgitating, symptoms he never had prior to his hospitalization. I
initially thought he might have gotten a throat/esophagus irritation
from the feeding tube he had in while hospitalized but that was before
I read about the doxycycline.

Now, admittedly, he had something before he was hospitalized because of
the fever and the fever never responded to antibiotics. That can be an
indication of cancer but I first noticed him gulping a little while he
was hospitalized. It got progressively worse upon his discharge. I
told the vet to not bother sending the sample he took out to the
pathologist so I will never know for sure if it was cancer. I feel
awful about this. These vets have been in practice for 30 years, they
have a good reputation, they are very kind, and I hate the thought that
their negligence might have contributed to his condition and ultimate
death and also that it was me who did not want him on baytril, thereby
causing him to be on doxycycline. Yet they did apparently give him
doxycycline without a chaser so he could very well have developed
esophagitis from this. How could they not know this could happen? I
never heard this about doxy before but I'm not a vet. It seems a
little coincidental that he was given this drug and then developed a
condition that can be caused by it.

Nothing can bring Scottie back. I don't know whether to bring it up to
them. I consider that these guys were instrumental in Abbey's recovery
9-10 months ago. But should they not have known this? I also have a
huge vet bill now and no cat. Maybe he would have fully recovered if I
had never taken him there and/or if I had let him be on baytril all
along. I feel that I set a chain of events in motion that caused
Scottie to die and to experience some suffering prior to his death. I
know it's normal to start second-guessing after something like this but
there are veterinary references to this all over the internet when you
look for them.

Candace

(crossposted to vet board)

cybercat
March 2nd 06, 04:39 AM
"Candace" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
> sealing my poor cat's fate.
>
>[...]

Candace, it all makes sense from the point of view of someone
who knows nothing at all about veterinary medicine--but honestly,
do you have this little faith in your vet?

I am not saying that you may not be right. But please, make an
appointment and go in and talk with him. I would not do it on the
phone, I would do it face to face. I think you could tell better from
his reaction what really went on. You could bring the material from
the web that you found. I know it seems odd to make an appointment
and just go and talk, but I really would. I don't know if you are right
or wrong, but I do think a phone call is not the way to go.

If what you suspect is right, then this vet has got to be set straight
before he hurts another cat. If it is wrong, you need to know.

Hang in there, kid.

MaryL
March 2nd 06, 04:47 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Candace" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
>> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
>> sealing my poor cat's fate.
>>
>>[...]
>
> Candace, it all makes sense from the point of view of someone
> who knows nothing at all about veterinary medicine--but honestly,
> do you have this little faith in your vet?
>
> I am not saying that you may not be right. But please, make an
> appointment and go in and talk with him. I would not do it on the
> phone, I would do it face to face. I think you could tell better from
> his reaction what really went on. You could bring the material from
> the web that you found. I know it seems odd to make an appointment
> and just go and talk, but I really would. I don't know if you are right
> or wrong, but I do think a phone call is not the way to go.
>
> If what you suspect is right, then this vet has got to be set straight
> before he hurts another cat. If it is wrong, you need to know.
>
> Hang in there, kid.
>
>

I agree. You need to get more information to set your mind at rest. If the
medication was given incorrectly, your vet needs to know about his so that
someone else doesn't suffer the same consequences. And if there is a
reasonable explanation (such as a different formulation), then you need to
give your vet the opportunity to clear the air. Above all, please don't
beat yourself up over this. I know that's much easier advice to give than
to follow through, but you loved Scottie and did everything you could for
him. Even with love and the best of care, sometimes it just isn't enough.
But the important thing is that you did your very best.

MaryL

Systemrecovery
March 2nd 06, 07:19 AM
Candace wrote:
> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
> sealing my poor cat's fate.

that's got to add to your hurt even more...

If you don't mind me saying it...you appear to be very grounded...just
an observation.

don't pay them anything, tellem it's the least they can do for what
they have done
if they take you to court, then counter sue..as well as...
seek punitive damages...
im sorry...i don't mean to talk insensitive...

-L.
March 2nd 06, 07:50 AM
Candace wrote:
> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
> sealing my poor cat's fate.

<snip>

I think you have a case for veterinary malpractice. I would gather
together your evidence and write him a letter. Ask him to respond to
your concerns and make it very clear you think he was negligent. You
can't bring Scottie back, but you can possibly recover part of your vet
bill (or have it cleared). If you do not get resolution, file a
complaint with the state licensing board.

I have never used doxycyline in felines and had no idea this was a
problem. Thanks for posting this - you may have saved another cat by
doing so.

-L.

Rhonda
March 2nd 06, 01:45 PM
Candace,

I am so sorry to hear about this complication. This sucks.

Please talk to the vet about it. If this really was the problem, you
could be saving the next cat that the vet treats.

This was in no way your fault. This is the vet's responsibility and
something they are trained to catch no matter what conversation happened
before using that drug.

Rhonda

Candace wrote:


> Now, after the fact, I have read that oral doxycycline can be a caustic
> agent in cats which can lead to esophagitis and that, in turn, can lead
> to a stricture (narrowing). I have several cites to this effect.

Systemrecovery
March 2nd 06, 02:22 PM
Systemrecovery wrote:

> If you don't mind me saying it...you appear to be very grounded...

Hope you have a nice day...just wanted to clarify my thoughts...
i just mean you seem very strong...

PawsForThought
March 2nd 06, 04:37 PM
Candace, I'm sorry too to hear about this. I completely agree with the
others about it not being your fault. The vet should have known that
this could be a complication from the medication. Pet owners should
not be expected to know this information. We depend upon the
veterinarian to be well-educated about any possible side effects when
they prescribe a medication.

Hugs,
Lauren

March 2nd 06, 07:02 PM
On 1 Mar 2006 19:34:52 -0800, "Candace" > wrote:

>I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
>This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
>sealing my poor cat's fate.
>
>As you may recall, Scottie was hospitalized for a week with a fever of
>unknown origin, lethargy, and inappetance. He was on IV and oral
>antibiotics but his fever did not respond. After a few days, the vet
>wanted to put him on baytril. I had read about the possibility of
>baytril causing blindness in cats and expressed my concerns so the vet,
>instead, put him on oral doxycycline.
>
>Now, after the fact, I have read that oral doxycycline can be a caustic
>agent in cats which can lead to esophagitis and that, in turn, can lead
>to a stricture (narrowing). I have several cites to this effect. It
>should either be administered in liquid form or followed by a water
>chaser. I was there once when he received his oral meds. No chaser
>was given and it was not in liquid form.
>
>When we took him home, still with a fever, a week later, I was given
>oral doxycycline to give him. Almost immediately upon getting home,
>however, he began his regurgitating so I never gave him any. A couple
>of days later we began the steroid treatments which really didn't help
>much either. He began exhibiting his odd difficulty in swallowing and
>regurgitating, symptoms he never had prior to his hospitalization. I
>initially thought he might have gotten a throat/esophagus irritation
>from the feeding tube he had in while hospitalized but that was before
>I read about the doxycycline.
>
>Now, admittedly, he had something before he was hospitalized because of
>the fever and the fever never responded to antibiotics. That can be an
>indication of cancer but I first noticed him gulping a little while he
>was hospitalized. It got progressively worse upon his discharge. I
>told the vet to not bother sending the sample he took out to the
>pathologist so I will never know for sure if it was cancer. I feel
>awful about this. These vets have been in practice for 30 years, they
>have a good reputation, they are very kind, and I hate the thought that
>their negligence might have contributed to his condition and ultimate
>death and also that it was me who did not want him on baytril, thereby
>causing him to be on doxycycline. Yet they did apparently give him
>doxycycline without a chaser so he could very well have developed
>esophagitis from this. How could they not know this could happen? I
>never heard this about doxy before but I'm not a vet. It seems a
>little coincidental that he was given this drug and then developed a
>condition that can be caused by it.
>
>Nothing can bring Scottie back. I don't know whether to bring it up to
>them. I consider that these guys were instrumental in Abbey's recovery
>9-10 months ago. But should they not have known this? I also have a
>huge vet bill now and no cat. Maybe he would have fully recovered if I
>had never taken him there and/or if I had let him be on baytril all
>along. I feel that I set a chain of events in motion that caused
>Scottie to die and to experience some suffering prior to his death. I
>know it's normal to start second-guessing after something like this but
>there are veterinary references to this all over the internet when you
>look for them.
>
>Candace
>
>(crossposted to vet board)

{{{{Candace}}}}

All I can say is I am so sorry. Please try not to blame yourself.
You aren't a vet, and there is just no way we can know every possible
outcome of medications, tests, or whatever when we are not the
experts. You did the best you could, and trusted a vet who sounds
like they may have missed something important in terms of how to give
the medication properly.

My condolences are with you.

Ginger-lyn

Home Pages:
http://www.moonsummer.com
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)
http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against
Animals in Movies Website)

Phil P.
March 6th 06, 05:34 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> There's not much you can do about now other than never go back to that vet
> again. Vets are only human and make mistakes- but this was an easily
> preventable death and he has no excuse whatsoever. Its not your fault.

On second thought, there's a lot you can do about it.
Doxycycline-associated esophageal stricture in cats has been reported in
veterinary medical journals since 1980- 26 years. I think your vet agreed
to euthanize Scottie because he wanted to destroy the evidence of his
negligence and malpractice. That's probably why he failed to mention
balloon dilation to resolve Scottie's esophageal stricture.

Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal stricture
you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of the
medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is strong
enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats won't
suffer from his negligence.

The below journal citations should be of interest to your lawyer.

J Feline Med Surg. 2005 Feb;7(1):33-41.

Oesophageal strictures in cats associated with doxycycline therapy.

German AJ, Cannon MJ, Dye C, Booth MJ, Pearson GR, Reay CA, Gruffydd-Jones
TJ.

Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford
House, Bristol BS40 5DU, UK.

Four cases of oesophageal stricture subsequent to doxycycline administration
are
reported. All cases were young to middle age (median age 3 years; range 1-7
years), and either domestic shorthair or domestic longhair breed. In all
cases
the predominant clinical sign was regurgitation, which developed at variable
times after doxycycline administration. In all cases the reason for
doxycycline
use was treatment or prophylaxis of suspected infections (Mycoplasma
haemofelis,
Chlamydophila felis or Bordetella bronchiseptica), and the duration of
therapy
was variable. In one case the stricture was definitively diagnosed at post
mortem examination, in the three other cases, definitive diagnosis was by
endoscopy. Balloon dilation was successful in the three cases that were
treated.
This is the largest case series, to date, of oesophageal disease in cats
associated with doxycycline administration. Caution should be exercised when
administering oral medication to cats, especially doxycycline, and should be
accompanied either by a water or food swallow.


J Small Anim Pract. 2002 May;43(5):221-3.

Oesophageal stricture in a cat due to oral administration of tetracyclines.

McGrotty YL, Knottenbelt CM.

Department of Small Animal Clinical Studies, University of Glasgow
Veterinary
School, Bearsden.

A three-year-old, male neutered domestic shorthair cat was presented with
dysphagia and regurgitation following treatment with oral doxycycline and
oxytetracycline for Haemobartonella felis infection. Fluoroscopy confirmed
the
presence of multiple strictures along the entire length of the oesophagus.
Balloon dilatation was performed successfully on two occasions and the
symptoms
resolved. To the authors' knowledge, this is the first report of oesophageal
strictures associated with oral administration of tetracyclines in a cat in
the
UK.


Laryngoscope. 1983 Feb;93(2):184-7.

Tetracycline induced esophageal ulcers. a clinical and experimental study.

Carlborg B, Densert O, Lindqvist C.

Medication with oral drugs has not been considered as a cause of esophageal
lesions in the general literature of esophageal disease. This study
demonstrates
40 patients with complaints of sudden onset of intense retrosternal pains
and
odynophagia during treatment with oral tetracyclines. All patients had
distinct
circumferential ulcers in the esophagus. Medical history, barium swallows,
esophagoscopy, biopsies and esophageal manometry revealed no other apparent
etiology but a local corrosive effect of the tetracyclines. Experimental
tests
on the esophagus of the cat verified a severe local corrosive effect of the
tetracyclines. Another tetracycline, lymecycline, not reported previously to
induce esophageal lesions in man, was significantly less ulcerogenic than
doxycycline and oxytetracycline. Drug induced esophageal ulcerations are
likely
to be more numerous than previously suspected. The experimental model used
appears to be sound for investigating ulcerogenic potentials of orally
administered drugs.


J Vet Intern Med. 2001 Sep-Oct;15(5):467-70.

Evaluation of esophageal transit of tablets and capsules in 30 cats.

Westfall DS, Twedt DC, Steyn PF, Oberhauser EB, VanCleave JW.

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine and
Biomedical
Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523, USA.

We have reported tablet-induced focal esophagitis and esophageal stricture
formation in cats. The proposed mechanism is thought to be abnormal
esophageal
tablet retention resulting in focal esophagitis with subsequent stricture
formation. The objective of this study was to evaluate the passage of
tablets
and capsules when given alone (dry swallow) and when followed by a water
bolus
(wet swallow) to determine if this could, in part, explain the esophageal
stricture formation we have observed in cats. Fluoroscopy was used to
evaluate
tablet or capsule passage after administration. The percentage of dry tablet
swallows that successfully passed into the stomach was 0.0% at 30 and 60
seconds, 6.7% at 90 seconds, 13.3% at 120 seconds, 26.7% at 180 and 240
seconds,
and 36.7% at 300 seconds. Wet tablet swallows successfully passed 90.0% of
the
time at 30 seconds, 93.3% of the time at 60 seconds, and 100.0% of the time
thereafter. The percentage of dry capsule swallows that successfully passed
was
16.7% at each time interval. Wet capsule swallows successfully passed 96.7%
of
the time at 30 seconds and 100% of the time thereafter. For each time
interval,
wet swallows achieved significantly greater percentage passage into the
stomach
when compared to dry swallows (P < .05). This study shows that tablets or
capsules given by dry swallow have prolonged retention in the esophagus
compared
to those given by wet swallow. On the basis of this study, we recommend the
routine administration of a water bolus to cats receiving tablets or
capsules PO
to facilitate esophageal clearance. This practice may help prevent
medication-associated esophagitis or stricture formation.


Eur Surg Res. 1980;12(4):270-82.

Esophageal lesions caused by orally administered drugs. An experimental
study in
the cat.

Carlborg B, Densert O.

This article presents an experimental method using cats for investigation of
the
local ulcerogenic properties of oral drugs in the esophagus. 15 drugs in
current
clinical use were tested. The drugs were placed in esophagus and the animals
were sacrificed after 5--8 h, 4--7 or 21 days. The esophagus was cut open,
photographed macroscopically and sectioned for light microscopy. Several
drugs,
e.g. doxycycline, alprenolol, propranolol, ferrosuccinate, ferrosulfate, and
emepronium bromide showed marked ulcerogenic properties, whereas
indomethacin
and betamethasone did not cause any lesions in the cat esophagus. The
results
seem to be in accordance with the local effect these same drugs exert on the
human esophageal mucosa. In order to predict and prevent drug-induced
esophageal
lesions in man we suggest that oral drugs should be tested concerning their
local ulcerogenic properties in the esophagus.

-L.
March 6th 06, 05:48 AM
Phil P. wrote:
> On second thought, there's a lot you can do about it.
> Doxycycline-associated esophageal stricture in cats has been reported in
> veterinary medical journals since 1980- 26 years. I think your vet agreed
> to euthanize Scottie because he wanted to destroy the evidence of his
> negligence and malpractice. That's probably why he failed to mention
> balloon dilation to resolve Scottie's esophageal stricture.
>
> Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal stricture
> you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of the
> medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is strong
> enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
> want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
> proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats won't
> suffer from his negligence.

I totally agree that she has a case. If she approaches the vet with
the evidence and discusses malpractice, it may be enogh for him to fold
and clean her bill. Wouldn't be the first time such a thing has
occurred.

Like I said before, it won't bring Scottie back but it will help her
financial burden and teach the asshole vet a lesson.

-L.

Phil P.
March 6th 06, 06:02 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > On second thought, there's a lot you can do about it.
> > Doxycycline-associated esophageal stricture in cats has been reported in
> > veterinary medical journals since 1980- 26 years. I think your vet
agreed
> > to euthanize Scottie because he wanted to destroy the evidence of his
> > negligence and malpractice. That's probably why he failed to mention
> > balloon dilation to resolve Scottie's esophageal stricture.
> >
> > Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal
stricture
> > you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of
the
> > medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is
strong
> > enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
> > want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
> > proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats
won't
> > suffer from his negligence.
>
> I totally agree that she has a case. If she approaches the vet with
> the evidence and discusses malpractice, it may be enogh for him to fold
> and clean her bill. Wouldn't be the first time such a thing has
> occurred.
>
> Like I said before, it won't bring Scottie back but it will help her
> financial burden and teach the asshole vet a lesson.


Absotively. Some risks can't be avoided- but I'm certain this was clearly a
case of negligence. Who knows how many other cats this vet has harmed and
the owners never knew?

Phil

Candace
March 10th 06, 03:53 AM
Phil P. wrote:

> Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal stricture
> you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of the
> medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is strong
> enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
> want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
> proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats won't
> suffer from his negligence.

That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was not
instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and that my cat died of the
number one cause of esophageal stricture in cats. I am definitely
pursuing this, don't worry. I know I'm right. I'm not positive I will
need a lawyer but if I do, I will get one. This is not going to go
unnoticed. A beautiful cat died before his time and it's something I
cannot get over...it's my first waking thought everyday and the last
thing I think about at night. I am soooo sorry he died and sooo sorry
he was hospitalized for a fever for 7 ****ing days and meanwhile was
being made more ill from the doxy. The poor little animal, it's
heinous. I feel so much that I let him down. One of my friends told
me that I did what I was supposed to do, I took my sick cat to a vet,
paid him a huge amount of money, and he is the one who failed at his
job...not me...but it doesn't matter, I feel culpable and I am the one
who will always have the vision of him sitting in a cage, hospitalized,
while he was getting a caustic agent rammed down his throat twice a
day. I cannot even grasp it. And the worse thing is, even if the vet
gives me way over my expenses (which I know is very unlikely), it's not
going to assuage my guilt and sadness one bit.

Thank you for the additional citations, I did not have all of those.

Candace

Candace
March 10th 06, 06:01 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:

> I hate to play devil's advocate here, but you have to work out the
> scenario had you not aborted your vet's decision to administer
> baytril in favor of something else. That is precisely why I leave
> things in the hands of my vet, who has more education that I can
> gleen from the net, to decide what medications are best for my cat.

I didn't abort the decision, I *questioned* him about the possibility
of baytril causing blindness. It's my perogative to question either my
own medical care or my cats' veterinary care. I wish I hadn't but
that doesn't excuse his ignorance about doxycycline. In fact, about 2
days later, he did put Scottie on baytril with my permission since
neither the clavamox or doxy seemd to be getting rid of his fever. It
doesn't excuse the fact that he improperly administered the doxy or the
fact that he didn't figure out that the esophagitis and stricture were
caused by the doxy and could have been possibly cured by balloon
dilation of the esophagus. Nor does it excuse the fact that he said it
was "probably cancer." He should have known it was from the doxy and
taken steps to correct it. Doxycycline is the number one cause of
esophagitis nad esophageal stricture in cats. One would think he would
know that and put 2 and 2 together. I don't know if he didn't know
about doxy being caustic or if he was covering something up.
Personally, I feel it was ignorance and not malice. But...sorry, I
paid him about $4,000; he should have known how to administer a drug
and/or recognized the side effects when my cat developed them. That's
a lot of money to pay and only have your cat get sicker and die.

> How many cats have you heard of who suffered the various affects of
> improperly administered doxy over whatever you heard about baytril?

Well, I've never heard of doxy causing anything bad in cats. If I had
known about this I would have questioned him about its use, too. I
have heard a lot of negative stuff about baytril, though, on this
newsgroup. I wish I hadn't because my cat might be alive if I hadn't
but, don't you see?, the vet is *supposed* to know this stuff. I can
ask questions; he's still supposed to know the answers. It's kind of a
basic thing to know how to properly administer a drug before you give
it. It's listed as a warning in the most widely used veterinary
handbook, Plumb's, and I know they have a Plumb's there, I saw it. I
would think he would have read it at some point. It wasn't really a
side effect, in my opinion, it was a medication error, the kind of
stuff that humans can sue doctors for in a heartbeat.

> I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
> reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
> have to remember that **** happens. You suing your vet for using
> another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
> rest of us. I don't like--I think it's stupid. Scottie died. I'm
> sad, the whole thing is sad. You did your best. The vet did his
> best. Cry, and then move on.

I did not insist he use doxycycline. I *questioned* the use of baytril,
he then suggested doxycycline, and I didn't question him about that. I
can hear things, question things, but when it comes down to it, I
didn't go to vet school, and I'm not making a living at being a vet; he
should know something as basic as drug administration. It's like if
your doctor suggested you take hormones. Those drugs were in the news
a lot. You have a right to ask a question, that's all I did about the
baytril. Believe me, I feel a responsibility because I did
that...things could have unfolded so differently if I had not
questioned it but I still had a right to do so and he had an obligation
to know what he was prescribing, how to administer it, and to recognize
a side effect when it developed. It was a greivous error, in my
opinion.

Candace
> --
> Margarita Salt
>
> "...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
> entirely good... motives are often more important than
> actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt

-L.
March 10th 06, 07:36 AM
Margarita Salt wrote:
>
> I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
> reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
> have to remember that **** happens.

This wasn't a case of "**** happens" and in fact demonstrates WHY we
should question our vets. The vet was CLEARLY negligent in this case -
he administered a drug imporperly and killed the cat. It's a open and
shut case.

> You suing your vet for using
> another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
> rest of us.

Too ****ing bad. This vet was negligent and needs to be called on the
carpet for it.

<snip>

> Cry, and then move on.

Remember those words when you do lose Kami, you ****. How ****ing
insensitve can you be?

-L.

-L.
March 10th 06, 07:40 AM
Candace wrote:
>
> I didn't abort the decision, I *questioned* him about the possibility
> of baytril causing blindness. It's my perogative to question either my
> own medical care or my cats' veterinary care. I wish I hadn't but
> that doesn't excuse his ignorance about doxycycline. In fact, about 2
> days later, he did put Scottie on baytril with my permission since
> neither the clavamox or doxy seemd to be getting rid of his fever. It
> doesn't excuse the fact that he improperly administered the doxy or the
> fact that he didn't figure out that the esophagitis and stricture were
> caused by the doxy and could have been possibly cured by balloon
> dilation of the esophagus. Nor does it excuse the fact that he said it
> was "probably cancer." He should have known it was from the doxy and
> taken steps to correct it.

I suspect he knew it was from the doxy and knew he was in deep ****.
At that point it was easier to euth the cat and get rid of the
evidence.

> Doxycycline is the number one cause of
> esophagitis nad esophageal stricture in cats. One would think he would
> know that and put 2 and 2 together. I don't know if he didn't know
> about doxy being caustic or if he was covering something up.
> Personally, I feel it was ignorance and not malice. But...sorry, I
> paid him about $4,000; he should have known how to administer a drug
> and/or recognized the side effects when my cat developed them. That's
> a lot of money to pay and only have your cat get sicker and die.
>
> > How many cats have you heard of who suffered the various affects of
> > improperly administered doxy over whatever you heard about baytril?
>
> Well, I've never heard of doxy causing anything bad in cats. If I had
> known about this I would have questioned him about its use, too. I
> have heard a lot of negative stuff about baytril, though, on this
> newsgroup. I wish I hadn't because my cat might be alive if I hadn't
> but, don't you see?, the vet is *supposed* to know this stuff. I can
> ask questions; he's still supposed to know the answers. It's kind of a
> basic thing to know how to properly administer a drug before you give
> it. It's listed as a warning in the most widely used veterinary
> handbook, Plumb's, and I know they have a Plumb's there, I saw it. I
> would think he would have read it at some point. It wasn't really a
> side effect, in my opinion, it was a medication error, the kind of
> stuff that humans can sue doctors for in a heartbeat.
>
> > I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
> > reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
> > have to remember that **** happens. You suing your vet for using
> > another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
> > rest of us. I don't like--I think it's stupid. Scottie died. I'm
> > sad, the whole thing is sad. You did your best. The vet did his
> > best. Cry, and then move on.
>
> I did not insist he use doxycycline. I *questioned* the use of baytril,
> he then suggested doxycycline, and I didn't question him about that. I
> can hear things, question things, but when it comes down to it, I
> didn't go to vet school, and I'm not making a living at being a vet; he
> should know something as basic as drug administration. It's like if
> your doctor suggested you take hormones. Those drugs were in the news
> a lot. You have a right to ask a question, that's all I did about the
> baytril. Believe me, I feel a responsibility because I did
> that...things could have unfolded so differently if I had not
> questioned it but I still had a right to do so and he had an obligation
> to know what he was prescribing, how to administer it, and to recognize
> a side effect when it developed. It was a greivous error, in my
> opinion.

I am so glad to hear you are persuing this, Candace. Please keep us
updated. I'm ****ed off about it, and hurt for you. Feel free to
Email me if you need an ear.

-L.

Candace
March 10th 06, 07:57 AM
-L. wrote:

> I am so glad to hear you are persuing this, Candace. Please keep us
> updated. I'm ****ed off about it, and hurt for you. Feel free to
> Email me if you need an ear.
>
> -L.

Thank you.

Candace

Margarita Salt
March 10th 06, 09:41 AM
Candace > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> I did not insist he use doxycycline. I *questioned* the use of
> baytril, he then suggested doxycycline, and I didn't question him
> about that. I can hear things, question things, but when it comes
> down to it, I didn't go to vet school, and I'm not making a living
> at being a vet; he should know something as basic as drug
> administration. It's like if your doctor suggested you take
> hormones. Those drugs were in the news a lot. You have a right
> to ask a question, that's all I did about the baytril. Believe
> me, I feel a responsibility because I did that...things could have
> unfolded so differently if I had not questioned it but I still had
> a right to do so and he had an obligation to know what he was
> prescribing, how to administer it, and to recognize a side effect
> when it developed. It was a greivous error, in my opinion.

I didn't say you wanted Doxy, I am acknowledging you question
baytril and also acknowledging that you snipped the part about me
REQUESTING bayril over clavamox based on prior experience. The fact
remains that if you hadn't questioned your vet who knows more than
you do, this may not have happened. I mean, what are the incidents
of doxy and structure versus baytril and blindness?

I can point you to HUNDREDS of website laying out horror stories
about how horrible LASIK for vision correction is. The facts,
however, indicate that there is a 3% severe side effect rate that
does not mean that 97% percent of people will not be ecstatic with
the results. (Similar to the behavioral problems with declawing.)
I will still, with all my heart, recommend LASIK to people as long
as they do the research and ask the right questions educating
themselves FULLY on every aspect of the procedure.

Mind you, I said I was playing devil's advocate. I'm not taking a
stance one way or the other, and I certainly don't mean to put you
on the defensive. I'm simply trying to be another voice trying to
temper those of the people who are screaming for you to sue the vet.
Are you SURE that given what a vet knows about the level of risk
that he didn't take proper care of Scottie? As I said, LASIK
carries a 3% risk, and still ophthamologists perform the procedure.
Does that make them negligent somehow? I'm only asking you to calm
down and think about it. What until the grief passes and look at
ALL of the facts. You can get plenty of people to preach on your
side, but is it the correct route to take? Was it foreseable? Have
you asked other vets how they administer the drug? And so on...

Ad I mentioned, I only thought of this because I ask for baytril
where you have questioned it. Could I inadvertantly cause Kami
hamr? Absolutely! But to me, it's worth the risk because she has
always done well with baytril and totally crappy with anything else.
It is a crap shoot.

--
Margarita Salt

"...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
entirely good... motives are often more important than
actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt

Charlie Wilkes
March 10th 06, 01:19 PM
On 9 Mar 2006 19:53:52 -0800, "Candace" > wrote:

>Phil P. wrote:
>
>> Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal stricture
>> you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of the
>> medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is strong
>> enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
>> want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
>> proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats won't
>> suffer from his negligence.
>
>That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was not
>instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and that my cat died of the
>number one cause of esophageal stricture in cats. I am definitely
>pursuing this, don't worry. I know I'm right. I'm not positive I will
>need a lawyer but if I do, I will get one. This is not going to go
>unnoticed. A beautiful cat died before his time and it's something I
>cannot get over...it's my first waking thought everyday and the last
>thing I think about at night. I am soooo sorry he died and sooo sorry
>he was hospitalized for a fever for 7 ****ing days and meanwhile was
>being made more ill from the doxy. The poor little animal, it's
>heinous. I feel so much that I let him down. One of my friends told
>me that I did what I was supposed to do, I took my sick cat to a vet,
>paid him a huge amount of money, and he is the one who failed at his
>job...not me...but it doesn't matter, I feel culpable and I am the one
>who will always have the vision of him sitting in a cage, hospitalized,
>while he was getting a caustic agent rammed down his throat twice a
>day. I cannot even grasp it. And the worse thing is, even if the vet
>gives me way over my expenses (which I know is very unlikely), it's not
>going to assuage my guilt and sadness one bit.
>
>Thank you for the additional citations, I did not have all of those.
>
>Candace

I don't think conventional legal action -- filing a civil claim -- is
necessarily the best way to go.

Lots of people put up web pages alerting fellow pet owners about
dangers to their pets... I looked at quite a few of them after Tweaker
developed lesions in the wake of his one and only vaccination. I
doubt if your vet wants to be Exhibit A on your prospective web site.
But he could be, right? Unless he gives you back your money and
promises not to treat future cats in the same manner.

The trick is to communicate your concerns and proposed solutions in a
non-confrontational, non-threatening manner.

Good luck.

Charlie

Charlie

CatNipped
March 10th 06, 03:51 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...

<snipped ignorant, insensitive ****>

Brandy, I usually don't mind a good troll, I even get a kick out of the
outrage they can generate (like "Nomen's" male chauvinist pig troll).

The one place I draw the line, however, is when it comes to using a greiving
"parent" - at which time it becomes sickening. Inhumane doesn't cover it -
inhuman is more like it. But I guess you can't expect anything else from a
dried up old ex crack whore.

Candace, I hope you consider the source and ignore the ****'s pathetic,
attention-seeking, acidic spew. Remember that this is coming from someone
who considers caring for a cat to be having it's toes amputated for her
convenience.

cybercat
March 10th 06, 04:01 PM
"Candace" > wrote :>
> That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was not
> instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and that my cat died of the
> number one cause of esophageal stricture in cats. I am definitely
> pursuing this, don't worry.

Candace, you're obviously right to do this. I have been quiet about it
because it pains me to see you have to go through this on top of
grieving Scottie's death. Has the vet answered your letter yet? I
am interested in what he has to say.

It is both terrifying and depressing that we cannot trust these
people to do what they have been trained to do, and that we
actually must protect our pets from them.

Rhonda
March 10th 06, 04:26 PM
Candace,

This is going to take some time. I can't even imagine what you're going
through or how to come to terms with it.

You do whatever makes you feel better. At the very least, this vet needs
to know what happened, so I'm glad you are pursuing this. You need to
find out for yourself. Everyone at that office needs to know what
happened, because I'm assuming vet techs administered the drug.

Hope you can find peace.

Rhonda

Candace wrote:

>
> That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was not
> instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and tha

yngver
March 10th 06, 04:28 PM
Candace wrote:
> Margarita Salt wrote:
>
> > I hate to play devil's advocate here, but you have to work out the
> > scenario had you not aborted your vet's decision to administer
> > baytril in favor of something else. That is precisely why I leave
> > things in the hands of my vet, who has more education that I can
> > gleen from the net, to decide what medications are best for my cat.
>
> I didn't abort the decision, I *questioned* him about the possibility
> of baytril causing blindness. It's my perogative to question either my
> own medical care or my cats' veterinary care. I wish I hadn't but
> that doesn't excuse his ignorance about doxycycline. In fact, about 2
> days later, he did put Scottie on baytril with my permission since
> neither the clavamox or doxy seemd to be getting rid of his fever. It
> doesn't excuse the fact that he improperly administered the doxy or the
> fact that he didn't figure out that the esophagitis and stricture were
> caused by the doxy and could have been possibly cured by balloon
> dilation of the esophagus. Nor does it excuse the fact that he said it
> was "probably cancer." He should have known it was from the doxy and
> taken steps to correct it. Doxycycline is the number one cause of
> esophagitis nad esophageal stricture in cats. One would think he would
> know that and put 2 and 2 together. I don't know if he didn't know
> about doxy being caustic or if he was covering something up.
> Personally, I feel it was ignorance and not malice. But...sorry, I
> paid him about $4,000; he should have known how to administer a drug
> and/or recognized the side effects when my cat developed them. That's
> a lot of money to pay and only have your cat get sicker and die.
>
> > How many cats have you heard of who suffered the various affects of
> > improperly administered doxy over whatever you heard about baytril?
>
> Well, I've never heard of doxy causing anything bad in cats. If I had
> known about this I would have questioned him about its use, too. I
> have heard a lot of negative stuff about baytril, though, on this
> newsgroup. I wish I hadn't because my cat might be alive if I hadn't
> but, don't you see?, the vet is *supposed* to know this stuff. I can
> ask questions; he's still supposed to know the answers. It's kind of a
> basic thing to know how to properly administer a drug before you give
> it. It's listed as a warning in the most widely used veterinary
> handbook, Plumb's, and I know they have a Plumb's there, I saw it. I
> would think he would have read it at some point. It wasn't really a
> side effect, in my opinion, it was a medication error, the kind of
> stuff that humans can sue doctors for in a heartbeat.
>
> > I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
> > reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
> > have to remember that **** happens. You suing your vet for using
> > another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
> > rest of us. I don't like--I think it's stupid. Scottie died. I'm
> > sad, the whole thing is sad. You did your best. The vet did his
> > best. Cry, and then move on.
>
> I did not insist he use doxycycline. I *questioned* the use of baytril,
> he then suggested doxycycline, and I didn't question him about that. I
> can hear things, question things, but when it comes down to it, I
> didn't go to vet school, and I'm not making a living at being a vet; he
> should know something as basic as drug administration. It's like if
> your doctor suggested you take hormones. Those drugs were in the news
> a lot. You have a right to ask a question, that's all I did about the
> baytril. Believe me, I feel a responsibility because I did
> that...things could have unfolded so differently if I had not
> questioned it but I still had a right to do so and he had an obligation
> to know what he was prescribing, how to administer it, and to recognize
> a side effect when it developed. It was a greivous error, in my
> opinion.
>
Although I have always thought the minute risk of blindness associated
with Baytril use has been blown all out of proportion on this newsgroup
over the years and caused undue paranoia, I don't think you should
blame yourself for questioning the vet about it. IMO a good vet should
have explained to you why he felt Baytril was the best choice in this
case. When my cat was very ill a few years ago and prescribed Baytril,
I did ask my vet about it and he explained to my satisfaction why he
was choosing to treat her with this particular drug and why he felt the
risk of blindness was somewhere between negligible and non-existent.
His professional judgment was correct, and our cat recovered. There are
instances when Baytril may be the best choice of antibiotic but that's
something your vet should know, not you. There are also instances in
which Doxycycline would be the treatment of choice but again, that's a
judgement your vet should have been trained to make. And yes, even if a
potential risk is rare, he ought to know about it.

-Yngver

-L.
March 10th 06, 05:28 PM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
> I don't think conventional legal action -- filing a civil claim -- is
> necessarily the best way to go.
>
> Lots of people put up web pages alerting fellow pet owners about
> dangers to their pets... I looked at quite a few of them after Tweaker
> developed lesions in the wake of his one and only vaccination.

What the hell happened?


> doubt if your vet wants to be Exhibit A on your prospective web site.
> But he could be, right? Unless he gives you back your money and
> promises not to treat future cats in the same manner.

That's blackmail, and illegal. Not a good way to approach it.

>
> The trick is to communicate your concerns and proposed solutions in a
> non-confrontational, non-threatening manner.

Absolutely. I would do everything via certified mail.

-L.

-L.
March 10th 06, 05:30 PM
cybercat wrote:
>
> It is both terrifying and depressing that we cannot trust these
> people to do what they have been trained to do, and that we
> actually must protect our pets from them.

Sadly, it's true of any professional, and any business, as well.
-L.

Cheryl Sellner
March 11th 06, 02:27 AM
On Thu 09 Mar 2006 10:53:52p, Candace wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):

> That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was
> not instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and that my cat
> died of the number one cause of esophageal stricture in cats. I
> am definitely pursuing this, don't worry. I know I'm right.
> I'm not positive I will need a lawyer but if I do, I will get
> one. This is not going to go unnoticed. A beautiful cat died
> before his time and it's something I cannot get over...it's my
> first waking thought everyday and the last thing I think about
> at night. I am soooo sorry he died and sooo sorry he was
> hospitalized for a fever for 7 ****ing days and meanwhile was
> being made more ill from the doxy. The poor little animal, it's
> heinous. I feel so much that I let him down. One of my friends
> told me that I did what I was supposed to do, I took my sick cat
> to a vet, paid him a huge amount of money, and he is the one who
> failed at his job...not me...but it doesn't matter, I feel
> culpable and I am the one who will always have the vision of him
> sitting in a cage, hospitalized, while he was getting a caustic
> agent rammed down his throat twice a day. I cannot even grasp
> it. And the worse thing is, even if the vet gives me way over
> my expenses (which I know is very unlikely), it's not going to
> assuage my guilt and sadness one bit.
>
> Thank you for the additional citations, I did not have all of
> those.

I hope you get results, Candace. Vets need to be held accountable.
I'm still sorry to this day that I didn't persue it with Shadow's
internist. Big mistake. After losing him, I didn't have the
strength to deal with boards and lawyers, but it sounds like you
do.

--
Cheryl

Charlie Wilkes
March 11th 06, 05:25 AM
On 10 Mar 2006 09:28:17 -0800, "-L." > wrote:

>
>Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>
>> I don't think conventional legal action -- filing a civil claim -- is
>> necessarily the best way to go.
>>
>> Lots of people put up web pages alerting fellow pet owners about
>> dangers to their pets... I looked at quite a few of them after Tweaker
>> developed lesions in the wake of his one and only vaccination.
>
>What the hell happened?

I posted a picture of it last year. A big lesion, about two inches
long, opened up on his shoulder after he got his vaccinations. Then
he had a series of smaller lesions, lasting for a period of months.
He's fine now, but I still wonder if he isn't at a higher risk for
cancer down the road because of this.

They add "adjutivants," i.e., toxic chemicals, to get the same immune
response with a smaller dose of cultured material. That's how to make
a cut-rate vaccine, which these companies do, except it ain't cut rate
for the customer. I learned all this (after the fact) by reading web
pages published by people who are concerned about feline vaccinations.
>
>
>> doubt if your vet wants to be Exhibit A on your prospective web site.
>> But he could be, right? Unless he gives you back your money and
>> promises not to treat future cats in the same manner.
>
>That's blackmail, and illegal. Not a good way to approach it.

Forget the legal issues for a second and think about it in practical
terms. If she expresses it as a threat, or an attempt at blackmail,
it's bound to lead to make the guy defensive and lead to a poor
result. Subtlety is key.
>
>>
>> The trick is to communicate your concerns and proposed solutions in a
>> non-confrontational, non-threatening manner.
>
>Absolutely. I would do everything via certified mail.

No. Certified mail is exactly how one sets the tone for
confrontation. It's an expensive, time-consuming way to deliver a
message that the person will get anyway.

I would start in a friendly, informal manner. Lay out the concerns,
acknowledge that vets can't possibly know everything, but here's what
the subsequent research shows, and hey, I paid for what has been
shown, after the fact, to be disasterous care, and that doesn't really
seem right. Let's find a solution, one that involves some restitution
for me and a better treatment of future, similar cases that come
through the door. And, BTW, I'm working on a web site to educate the
public about this issue so other pet owners won't have to go through
the grief I have experienced. Make the relevant points, and let the
vet draw the lines between them.

If the friendly, informal approach doesn't work, one always has
recourse to civil law... but not the other way around.

Charlie

-L.
March 11th 06, 08:21 AM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
<snip>

Sorry about Tweaker. That sucks! It sounds almost as if the vax was
contaminated with a hemolytic strain of Staph or something. I almost
lost both my dogs in two separate incidents, to vaccines. Now my dog
Tessa only gets rabies vax because of the risks.



> No. Certified mail is exactly how one sets the tone for
> confrontation. It's an expensive, time-consuming way to deliver a
> message that the person will get anyway.
>
> I would start in a friendly, informal manner. Lay out the concerns,
> acknowledge that vets can't possibly know everything, but here's what
> the subsequent research shows, and hey, I paid for what has been
> shown, after the fact, to be disasterous care, and that doesn't really
> seem right. Let's find a solution, one that involves some restitution
> for me and a better treatment of future, similar cases that come
> through the door. And, BTW, I'm working on a web site to educate the
> public about this issue so other pet owners won't have to go through
> the grief I have experienced. Make the relevant points, and let the
> vet draw the lines between them.
>
> If the friendly, informal approach doesn't work, one always has
> recourse to civil law... but not the other way around.

I agree with everything, except I would still send it certified mail.
Otherwise some dumb-assed dingbat in the office may not give him the
letter. It's the only way to ensure he actually receives it.

When my dog died, I wrote a really nice personal letter to my vet,
thanking him for his kindness and compassion in her treatment, and
informing him that I had her euthanized at home by a vet that does home
visits (I included a pic of her taken shortly before her demise). This
was a vet I had extremely good rapport with, and considered a real
asset to the community, and told him as much in my letter. The next
time I visited with my other dog (9 mos later), he asked how Tosh was -
he had no idea I had euthanized her. I was ****ed! Stupid-assed
dingbats in the office never even gave him the letter I sent. They
probably freaking threw it in the trash.

-L.

IBen Getiner
March 11th 06, 09:33 AM
Candace wrote:
> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
> sealing my poor cat's fate.
>
> As you may recall, Scottie was hospitalized for a week with a fever of
> unknown origin, lethargy, and inappetance. He was on IV and oral
> antibiotics but his fever did not respond. After a few days, the vet
> wanted to put him on baytril. I had read about the possibility of
> baytril causing blindness in cats and expressed my concerns so the vet,
> instead, put him on oral doxycycline.
>
> Now, after the fact, I have read that oral doxycycline can be a caustic
> agent in cats which can lead to esophagitis and that, in turn, can lead
> to a stricture (narrowing). I have several cites to this effect. It
> should either be administered in liquid form or followed by a water
> chaser. I was there once when he received his oral meds. No chaser
> was given and it was not in liquid form.
>
> When we took him home, still with a fever, a week later, I was given
> oral doxycycline to give him. Almost immediately upon getting home,
> however, he began his regurgitating so I never gave him any. A couple
> of days later we began the steroid treatments which really didn't help
> much either. He began exhibiting his odd difficulty in swallowing and
> regurgitating, symptoms he never had prior to his hospitalization. I
> initially thought he might have gotten a throat/esophagus irritation
> from the feeding tube he had in while hospitalized but that was before
> I read about the doxycycline.
>
> Now, admittedly, he had something before he was hospitalized because of
> the fever and the fever never responded to antibiotics. That can be an
> indication of cancer but I first noticed him gulping a little while he
> was hospitalized. It got progressively worse upon his discharge. I
> told the vet to not bother sending the sample he took out to the
> pathologist so I will never know for sure if it was cancer. I feel
> awful about this. These vets have been in practice for 30 years, they
> have a good reputation, they are very kind, and I hate the thought that
> their negligence might have contributed to his condition and ultimate
> death and also that it was me who did not want him on baytril, thereby
> causing him to be on doxycycline. Yet they did apparently give him
> doxycycline without a chaser so he could very well have developed
> esophagitis from this. How could they not know this could happen? I
> never heard this about doxy before but I'm not a vet. It seems a
> little coincidental that he was given this drug and then developed a
> condition that can be caused by it.
>
> Nothing can bring Scottie back. I don't know whether to bring it up to
> them. I consider that these guys were instrumental in Abbey's recovery
> 9-10 months ago. But should they not have known this? I also have a
> huge vet bill now and no cat. Maybe he would have fully recovered if I
> had never taken him there and/or if I had let him be on baytril all
> along. I feel that I set a chain of events in motion that caused
> Scottie to die and to experience some suffering prior to his death. I
> know it's normal to start second-guessing after something like this but
> there are veterinary references to this all over the internet when you
> look for them.
>
> Candace
>
> (crossposted to vet board)

YOU are an absolute ****ing IDIOT. The simple fact that this poor cat
fell somehow into your particular hands prove that God is either
extremely inept of a ****ing sadists with a very poor sense of humor..
Either way, you're cat's suffering was the end result (as anyone can
see). You should be in ****ing jail for criminal negligence....

IBen Getiner
March 11th 06, 09:36 AM
Candace wrote:
> I don't think Scottie's esophageal stricture was caused by cancer.
> This is what I think happened and how I inadvertently had a hand in
> sealing my poor cat's fate.
>
> As you may recall, Scottie was hospitalized for a week with a fever of
> unknown origin, lethargy, and inappetance. He was on IV and oral
> antibiotics but his fever did not respond. After a few days, the vet
> wanted to put him on baytril. I had read about the possibility of
> baytril causing blindness in cats and expressed my concerns so the vet,
> instead, put him on oral doxycycline.
>
> Now, after the fact, I have read that oral doxycycline can be a caustic
> agent in cats which can lead to esophagitis and that, in turn, can lead
> to a stricture (narrowing). I have several cites to this effect. It
> should either be administered in liquid form or followed by a water
> chaser. I was there once when he received his oral meds. No chaser
> was given and it was not in liquid form.
>
> When we took him home, still with a fever, a week later, I was given
> oral doxycycline to give him. Almost immediately upon getting home,
> however, he began his regurgitating so I never gave him any. A couple
> of days later we began the steroid treatments which really didn't help
> much either. He began exhibiting his odd difficulty in swallowing and
> regurgitating, symptoms he never had prior to his hospitalization. I
> initially thought he might have gotten a throat/esophagus irritation
> from the feeding tube he had in while hospitalized but that was before
> I read about the doxycycline.
>
> Now, admittedly, he had something before he was hospitalized because of
> the fever and the fever never responded to antibiotics. That can be an
> indication of cancer but I first noticed him gulping a little while he
> was hospitalized. It got progressively worse upon his discharge. I
> told the vet to not bother sending the sample he took out to the
> pathologist so I will never know for sure if it was cancer. I feel
> awful about this. These vets have been in practice for 30 years, they
> have a good reputation, they are very kind, and I hate the thought that
> their negligence might have contributed to his condition and ultimate
> death and also that it was me who did not want him on baytril, thereby
> causing him to be on doxycycline. Yet they did apparently give him
> doxycycline without a chaser so he could very well have developed
> esophagitis from this. How could they not know this could happen? I
> never heard this about doxy before but I'm not a vet. It seems a
> little coincidental that he was given this drug and then developed a
> condition that can be caused by it.
>
> Nothing can bring Scottie back. I don't know whether to bring it up to
> them. I consider that these guys were instrumental in Abbey's recovery
> 9-10 months ago. But should they not have known this? I also have a
> huge vet bill now and no cat. Maybe he would have fully recovered if I
> had never taken him there and/or if I had let him be on baytril all
> along. I feel that I set a chain of events in motion that caused
> Scottie to die and to experience some suffering prior to his death. I
> know it's normal to start second-guessing after something like this but
> there are veterinary references to this all over the internet when you
> look for them.
>
> Candace
>
> (crossposted to vet board)



YOU are an absolute ****ing IDIOT. The simple fact that this poor cat
fell somehow into your particular hands prove that God is either
extremely inept or a ****ing sadists with a very poor sense of humor..
Either way, you're cat's suffering was the end result (as anyone can
see). You should be in jail for criminal negligence....

-L.
March 11th 06, 10:46 AM
Cheryl Sellner wrote:
>
> I hope you get results, Candace. Vets need to be held accountable.
> I'm still sorry to this day that I didn't persue it with Shadow's
> internist. Big mistake. After losing him, I didn't have the
> strength to deal with boards and lawyers, but it sounds like you
> do.

It's amazing how much a battle will take out of you. I pride myself in
thinking I'd fight for justice when in reality, when I was faced with a
situation that could have been a major case, I just didn't have any
fight left in me. I still kind of kick myself in the ass because I
know the perp is probably still committing the same violations.
-L.

Phil P.
March 11th 06, 02:31 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Margarita Salt wrote:
> >
> > I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
> > reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
> > have to remember that **** happens.
>
> This wasn't a case of "**** happens" and in fact demonstrates WHY we
> should question our vets. The vet was CLEARLY negligent in this case -
> he administered a drug imporperly and killed the cat. It's a open and
> shut case.
>
> > You suing your vet for using
> > another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
> > rest of us.
>
> Too ****ing bad. This vet was negligent and needs to be called on the
> carpet for it.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Cry, and then move on.
>
> Remember those words when you do lose Kami, you ****. How ****ing
> insensitve can you be?
>
> -L.


Do you realize now that your well-intended compassion was wasted on a
gutter trash?

When Kami is finally released from her life of abuse, the bimbo will
probably plaster Kami's death all over the internet to get attention and
sympathy. She better not come here looking for sympathy.

Phil P.
March 11th 06, 02:38 PM
"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...
> Candace > wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
> > I did not insist he use doxycycline. I *questioned* the use of
> > baytril, he then suggested doxycycline, and I didn't question him
> > about that. I can hear things, question things, but when it comes
> > down to it, I didn't go to vet school, and I'm not making a living
> > at being a vet; he should know something as basic as drug
> > administration. It's like if your doctor suggested you take
> > hormones. Those drugs were in the news a lot. You have a right
> > to ask a question, that's all I did about the baytril. Believe
> > me, I feel a responsibility because I did that...things could have
> > unfolded so differently if I had not questioned it but I still had
> > a right to do so and he had an obligation to know what he was
> > prescribing, how to administer it, and to recognize a side effect
> > when it developed. It was a greivous error, in my opinion.
>
> I didn't say you wanted Doxy, I am acknowledging you question
> baytril and also acknowledging that you snipped the part about me
> REQUESTING bayril over clavamox based on prior experience.


Its not about which drug was used, you ****ing moron, its about the vet
failing to administer the drug properly and also failing to instruct the
client how to administer the drug. The safest drug in the world can have
severe adverse effects if its not prescribed and administered properly.



The fact
> remains that if you hadn't questioned your vet who knows more than
> you do, this may not have happened.


What an utterly asinine statement! Are you high on crack or cocaine again?
We have not only the right- but the responsibility to question *any*
treatment with which we're not comfortable. If you actually believe vets
never make mistakes or never use poor judgement then you're even more
ignorant than you appear.

Just think: If you would have questioned your vet about declawing a cat that
had an owner-induced biting problem, you might have learned that declawing
biters usually increases the frequency and intensity of the biting
behavior-- and maybe you wouldn't have deprived Kami of the pleasure and
need to scratch and you would have spared her the trauma of 10 separate
amputations and unnecessary surgical and anesthetic risks

Just think: if your vet told you not to encourage Kami's bitting behavior
when she was kitten you wouldn't have punished her for it when she became an
adult and when the biting was no longer cute; she might have had a happy
life instead of miserable life of abuse.




I mean, what are the incidents
> of doxy and structure versus baytril and blindness?

You don't get it, do you, bimbo? How would you go about determining the
incidence of adverse effects of a medication when its prescribed
incorrectly, huh?


> Are you SURE that given what a vet knows about the level of risk
> that he didn't take proper care of Scottie?


He didn't tell her to follow the doxy with water or canned food, did he?
Does that answer your question or aren't you that perceptive?




> Ad I mentioned, I only thought of this because I ask for baytril
> where you have questioned it.


Don't you remember Candace said Baytril wasn't working? or has all that
crack and cocaine burned out your memory cells?

Phil P.
March 11th 06, 02:38 PM
"Candace" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Phil P. wrote:
>
> > Even though you can't prove your vet caused Scottie's esophageal
stricture
> > you can prove he failed to instruct you in the proper administration of
the
> > medication. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer. I think your case is
strong
> > enough for a lawyer to take the case on a contigent basis. If you don't
> > want to sue him for the money- do it to avenge Scottie and donate the
> > proceeds from the suit to an animal shelter, and also so other cats
won't
> > suffer from his negligence.
>
> That's exactly right. I have indisputable evidence that I was not
> instructed in the proper use of doxycycline and that my cat died of the
> number one cause of esophageal stricture in cats. I am definitely
> pursuing this, don't worry. I know I'm right. I'm not positive I will
> need a lawyer but if I do, I will get one. This is not going to go
> unnoticed. A beautiful cat died before his time and it's something I
> cannot get over...it's my first waking thought everyday and the last
> thing I think about at night. I am soooo sorry he died and sooo sorry
> he was hospitalized for a fever for 7 ****ing days and meanwhile was
> being made more ill from the doxy. The poor little animal, it's
> heinous. I feel so much that I let him down. One of my friends told
> me that I did what I was supposed to do, I took my sick cat to a vet,
> paid him a huge amount of money, and he is the one who failed at his
> job...not me...but it doesn't matter, I feel culpable and I am the one
> who will always have the vision of him sitting in a cage, hospitalized,
> while he was getting a caustic agent rammed down his throat twice a
> day. I cannot even grasp it. And the worse thing is, even if the vet
> gives me way over my expenses (which I know is very unlikely), it's not
> going to assuage my guilt and sadness one bit.
>
> Thank you for the additional citations, I did not have all of those.
>
> Candace


Candace,

You did nothing wrong- so, don't blame yourself.

Please let me know how this turns out.

Good luck,

Phil

PawsForThought
March 11th 06, 03:12 PM
-L. wrote:
> Cheryl Sellner wrote:
> >
> > I hope you get results, Candace. Vets need to be held accountable.
> > I'm still sorry to this day that I didn't persue it with Shadow's
> > internist. Big mistake. After losing him, I didn't have the
> > strength to deal with boards and lawyers, but it sounds like you
> > do.
>
> It's amazing how much a battle will take out of you. I pride myself in
> thinking I'd fight for justice when in reality, when I was faced with a
> situation that could have been a major case, I just didn't have any
> fight left in me. I still kind of kick myself in the ass because I
> know the perp is probably still committing the same violations.
> -L.

I also was in a position where I should have pursued an action. Do I
regret not doing it? Yes, but I also realize that in my state of mind
at the time, it would have been just too much to bear. So don't feel
bad, sometimes we just have to do, or in this case, not do, what we
feel is best at the time.

Lauren

PawsForThought
March 11th 06, 03:17 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Margarita Salt" > wrote in message

> The fact
> > remains that if you hadn't questioned your vet who knows more than
> > you do, this may not have happened.
>
>
> What an utterly asinine statement! Are you high on crack or cocaine again?

I can't believe anyone could be this unfeeling and make such a
statement. Brandy, you really are a moron.

> We have not only the right- but the responsibility to question *any*
> treatment with which we're not comfortable. If you actually believe vets
> never make mistakes or never use poor judgement then you're even more
> ignorant than you appear.
>
> Just think: If you would have questioned your vet about declawing a cat that
> had an owner-induced biting problem, you might have learned that declawing
> biters usually increases the frequency and intensity of the biting
> behavior-- and maybe you wouldn't have deprived Kami of the pleasure and
> need to scratch and you would have spared her the trauma of 10 separate
> amputations and unnecessary surgical and anesthetic risks

Yeah, but I don't think Brandy WANTED to know. I think Brandy just
wanted what Brandy wanted, and to hell with her cat. I think she
couldn't wait to have her cat declawed. That's why she didn't bother
to research it before she had it done. I think she has no regrets
whatsoever. I don't think it's in her makeup to have empathy for
anyone other than herself.

Candace
March 11th 06, 07:59 PM
-L. wrote:

> I agree with everything, except I would still send it certified mail.
> Otherwise some dumb-assed dingbat in the office may not give him the
> letter. It's the only way to ensure he actually receives it.
>
> When my dog died, I wrote a really nice personal letter to my vet,
> thanking him for his kindness and compassion in her treatment, and
> informing him that I had her euthanized at home by a vet that does home
> visits (I included a pic of her taken shortly before her demise). This
> was a vet I had extremely good rapport with, and considered a real
> asset to the community, and told him as much in my letter. The next
> time I visited with my other dog (9 mos later), he asked how Tosh was -
> he had no idea I had euthanized her. I was ****ed! Stupid-assed
> dingbats in the office never even gave him the letter I sent. They
> probably freaking threw it in the trash.
>
> -L.

I delivered the letter in person today. I was going to wait until I
went to get his ashes but they're not back yet and it was eating at me
that I knew all this and the vet didn't have a clue: as far as he was
concerned, I was thrilled with the vet care Scottie received. So I
left the letter (after I got 2 months worth of Abbey's meds and
returned an unused bag of fluids). I'm certain he will get it; it's a
big envelope marked "confidential." The girl said he would be in at 5
tonight (he was out for the day at a seminar). I didn't want to ever
have to go back to get the ashes or anything but I guess I will have to
now. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's been almost 2 weeks and it
was bothering me that the vet didn't know how I felt.

So, we'll see. If I don't hear from him in a few days, I will send
everything I gave him today certified along with another letter saying
I am going to file a complaint with the state vet board if I don't hear
from him within 5 business days. Then I will do that. They have a
complaint form on their website and they review complaints once a
month. I figure that once it goes that far, the vet won't willingly
give me any reimbursement and my only course of action after that will
be small claims court or a lawyer, as Phil said. But I don't know how
to find a lawyer to take a case like that. From what I've read on the
internet, punitive damages are seldom awarded in veterinary malpractice
cases so it would just be for my costs and that isn't enough to entice
any lawyer I know of. I wouldn't even know what sort of lawyer to
approach, I guess just a general one, because no one has a veterinary
malpractice specialty.

I feel it all must be done for the principle of it but I don't feel it
can avenge Scottie in any way or make it right. Scottie will still be
dead and he will still have suffered and he still could have possibly
been treated and survived. I'll never be able to forget how he wanted
to eat, he was hungry, and then he would regurgitate it right back up.
It was awful. I only hope there really is a heaven and they are all
there and we can see them again and I hope he knows right now that I'm
sorry I ever took him there or ever let him be hospitalized for all
those days or that I didn't know there was a treatment until it was too
late.

My letter, by the way, is not particularly confrontational. I suppose
the fact that I am mentioning it to him at all is confrontational in
itself but the letter is very polite and matter-of-fact. I began it by
saying I had always felt he was a compassionate man and that I had
appreciated how his practice takes emergency calls and always fits
patients in and how sad I was to have to write a letter like this and
how I didn't feel I could trust any other animal's care to him. I
didn't mention money or reimbursement or filing complaints or anything
like that...just the facts on Scottie's symptoms, the doxycycline being
administered improperly, the vial I have at home without proper
instructions on it, the balloon dilation treatment that I was never
informed of, etc. along with several articles included. I said I would
welcome his response to all of this.

Thank you for all your responses and support (except for 2 and one of
those is a neo-Nazi inbred cretin that no one acknowledges anyway).
The website is a possibility down the road if nothing else works and I
imagine I will libel him all over the internet at some point if need
be.

Candace

Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)
March 11th 06, 08:06 PM
Hi Candace
My sorrow for your loss and your grief
If you get to a lawyer you need to find one that specializes in emotional
suffer and grievance
Depending on where you are More in likely you are going to find your self in
small claims court with a max of 5000 claim and no lawyer present or
allowed. If so I would contact one of the court shows such as People's
court. It not only allows the public to see the problems but most TV judges
will give the person a good lashing

Seeking the advice of a lawyer is the best thing you can do most should do
a consulate for about $200
But make sure you are emotional ready for it it is going to be a trying time



"Candace" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> -L. wrote:
>
>> I agree with everything, except I would still send it certified mail.
>> Otherwise some dumb-assed dingbat in the office may not give him the
>> letter. It's the only way to ensure he actually receives it.
>>
>> When my dog died, I wrote a really nice personal letter to my vet,
>> thanking him for his kindness and compassion in her treatment, and
>> informing him that I had her euthanized at home by a vet that does home
>> visits (I included a pic of her taken shortly before her demise). This
>> was a vet I had extremely good rapport with, and considered a real
>> asset to the community, and told him as much in my letter. The next
>> time I visited with my other dog (9 mos later), he asked how Tosh was -
>> he had no idea I had euthanized her. I was ****ed! Stupid-assed
>> dingbats in the office never even gave him the letter I sent. They
>> probably freaking threw it in the trash.
>>
>> -L.
>
> I delivered the letter in person today. I was going to wait until I
> went to get his ashes but they're not back yet and it was eating at me
> that I knew all this and the vet didn't have a clue: as far as he was
> concerned, I was thrilled with the vet care Scottie received. So I
> left the letter (after I got 2 months worth of Abbey's meds and
> returned an unused bag of fluids). I'm certain he will get it; it's a
> big envelope marked "confidential." The girl said he would be in at 5
> tonight (he was out for the day at a seminar). I didn't want to ever
> have to go back to get the ashes or anything but I guess I will have to
> now. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's been almost 2 weeks and it
> was bothering me that the vet didn't know how I felt.
>
> So, we'll see. If I don't hear from him in a few days, I will send
> everything I gave him today certified along with another letter saying
> I am going to file a complaint with the state vet board if I don't hear
> from him within 5 business days. Then I will do that. They have a
> complaint form on their website and they review complaints once a
> month. I figure that once it goes that far, the vet won't willingly
> give me any reimbursement and my only course of action after that will
> be small claims court or a lawyer, as Phil said. But I don't know how
> to find a lawyer to take a case like that. From what I've read on the
> internet, punitive damages are seldom awarded in veterinary malpractice
> cases so it would just be for my costs and that isn't enough to entice
> any lawyer I know of. I wouldn't even know what sort of lawyer to
> approach, I guess just a general one, because no one has a veterinary
> malpractice specialty.
>
> I feel it all must be done for the principle of it but I don't feel it
> can avenge Scottie in any way or make it right. Scottie will still be
> dead and he will still have suffered and he still could have possibly
> been treated and survived. I'll never be able to forget how he wanted
> to eat, he was hungry, and then he would regurgitate it right back up.
> It was awful. I only hope there really is a heaven and they are all
> there and we can see them again and I hope he knows right now that I'm
> sorry I ever took him there or ever let him be hospitalized for all
> those days or that I didn't know there was a treatment until it was too
> late.
>
> My letter, by the way, is not particularly confrontational. I suppose
> the fact that I am mentioning it to him at all is confrontational in
> itself but the letter is very polite and matter-of-fact. I began it by
> saying I had always felt he was a compassionate man and that I had
> appreciated how his practice takes emergency calls and always fits
> patients in and how sad I was to have to write a letter like this and
> how I didn't feel I could trust any other animal's care to him. I
> didn't mention money or reimbursement or filing complaints or anything
> like that...just the facts on Scottie's symptoms, the doxycycline being
> administered improperly, the vial I have at home without proper
> instructions on it, the balloon dilation treatment that I was never
> informed of, etc. along with several articles included. I said I would
> welcome his response to all of this.
>
> Thank you for all your responses and support (except for 2 and one of
> those is a neo-Nazi inbred cretin that no one acknowledges anyway).
> The website is a possibility down the road if nothing else works and I
> imagine I will libel him all over the internet at some point if need
> be.
>
> Candace
>

March 11th 06, 08:51 PM
"Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)" <10 points a troll
@linethetrollsup.com> wrote:

>Depending on where you are More in likely you are going to find your self in
>small claims court with a max of 5000 claim and no lawyer present or
>allowed. If so I would contact one of the court shows such as People's
>court. It not only allows the public to see the problems but most TV judges
>will give the person a good lashing

The problem with small claims court is that the Vet will give a load
of medical jargon to the judge and will be deemed the expert (unless
you brought a specialist of equal credentials). Since the judge won't
have a clue he/she will probably side with the doctor.

-mhd

Candace
March 11th 06, 09:03 PM
wrote:
>
> The problem with small claims court is that the Vet will give a load
> of medical jargon to the judge and will be deemed the expert (unless
> you brought a specialist of equal credentials). Since the judge won't
> have a clue he/she will probably side with the doctor.
>
> -mhd

As far as an expert, I'm sure vets are like doctors and try to cover
each other's asses, so no one would probably help me there. But I
don't know, at least to me this case sounds very clear cut. I can say
"esophageal stricture" and "improper doxycycline administration," too,
and I have numerous documentation in the veterinary literature to
support my case. I don't know what medical jargon he could throw
around to dispute that. I hope he will see the light and just return
my expenses on his own; maybe I'm being naive in thinking that is a
possibility. Maybe he would feel that if he did that, it would be an
admission of guilt. I don't know but the whole thing seems virtually
indisputable to me. Regardless, I could not, in good conscience, take
either one of my remaining cats to this practice again so I have
nothing to lose...I'm already obligated to pay the money I owe, my cat
is already dead. I might as well go for broke and stir up as much ****
as possible...which I will do if he doesn't respond in an appropriate
manner.

Candace

PawsForThought
March 11th 06, 10:01 PM
Candace wrote:
But I don't know how
> to find a lawyer to take a case like that. From what I've read on the
> internet, punitive damages are seldom awarded in veterinary malpractice
> cases so it would just be for my costs and that isn't enough to entice
> any lawyer I know of. I wouldn't even know what sort of lawyer to
> approach, I guess just a general one, because no one has a veterinary
> malpractice specialty.

Candace, I'm so sorry you're going through this. If it does come to a
point where you want to hire an attorney, you can check with your State
Bar Association for a referral of attorneys whose practice might
emphasize animal law. Your local county should also have a bar
association with a referral service. About a month ago, I was emailing
with an attorney who did specialize in animal law, and if you like, I
can check with her. I'm glad to hear you sent a letter to this vet. I
know that must have been very hard to have to deal with. Hopefully,
this vet will be open-minded enough to communicate back with you, and
to learn the effects of this drug so it doesn't happen to another
patient.

Hugs,
Lauren

IBen Getiner
March 11th 06, 10:47 PM
Candace wrote:
> -L. wrote:
>
<snip>
> Thank you for all your responses and support (except for 2 and one of
> those is a neo-Nazi inbred cretin that no one acknowledges anyway).

Thanks for the acknowledgment, Kandace! If there was any justice in
this world, it would be you in the ****ing ash urn and Scottie would be
the one still here and drawing breath. But some of us just can't seem
to see beyond ourselves, now can we....?
I might remind you of everything that you hate in a person (your
father, perhaps?), but I can tell you this.... My little Chester will
never fall because of my stupidity and the negligence that it obviously
breeds. God help any other small helpless lives that you might be
custodian over...

IBen Getiner

Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)
March 12th 06, 01:14 AM
He still is a jerk ain't he

Definitely group plonk

<plonk>

"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Candace wrote:
>> -L. wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>> Thank you for all your responses and support (except for 2 and one of
>> those is a neo-Nazi inbred cretin that no one acknowledges anyway).
>
> Thanks for the acknowledgment, Kandace! If there was any justice in
> this world, it would be you in the ****ing ash urn and Scottie would be
> the one still here and drawing breath. But some of us just can't seem
> to see beyond ourselves, now can we....?
> I might remind you of everything that you hate in a person (your
> father, perhaps?), but I can tell you this.... My little Chester will
> never fall because of my stupidity and the negligence that it obviously
> breeds. God help any other small helpless lives that you might be
> custodian over...
>
> IBen Getiner
>

Glitter Ninja
March 12th 06, 03:22 AM
"Phil P." > writes:

>"Margarita Salt" > wrote in message
...

>> The fact
>> remains that if you hadn't questioned your vet who knows more than
>> you do, this may not have happened.

Jeez. You know I've defended you more than once from people who think
your (former?) profession meant you were "trash", but I can't comprehend
why you would say something like this to Candace. Why in the hell would
you try and blame her for this? She's not the vet. She has every right
to question why and how a medicine or treatment is being used. To blame
someone for wanting to know more about a treatment is beyond
comprehension. You sound like you were just being mean.

>We have not only the right- but the responsibility to question *any*
>treatment with which we're not comfortable. If you actually believe vets
>never make mistakes or never use poor judgement then you're even more
>ignorant than you appear.

Unfortunately, doctors of all kinds make mistakes. I just quit my vet
of 10 years after finally realizing she wasn't making little mistakes,
she was making big ones, misdiagnosing and making mistakes in medical
procedures, and it was hurting my cat Reggie.
You *have* to question a doctor, and the sooner, the better. If I'd
questioned my vet earlier my Reggie wouldn't have had suffered as long
as he did. Candace was right to question her vet, for Scottie's sake.
The problem is the vet made a mistake, a horrible one.

Stacia

-L.
March 12th 06, 08:32 AM
Candace wrote:
> I delivered the letter in person today. I was going to wait until I
> went to get his ashes but they're not back yet and it was eating at me
> that I knew all this and the vet didn't have a clue: as far as he was
> concerned, I was thrilled with the vet care Scottie received. So I
> left the letter (after I got 2 months worth of Abbey's meds and
> returned an unused bag of fluids). I'm certain he will get it; it's a
> big envelope marked "confidential." The girl said he would be in at 5
> tonight (he was out for the day at a seminar). I didn't want to ever
> have to go back to get the ashes or anything but I guess I will have to
> now. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's been almost 2 weeks and it
> was bothering me that the vet didn't know how I felt.
>
> So, we'll see. If I don't hear from him in a few days, I will send
> everything I gave him today certified along with another letter saying
> I am going to file a complaint with the state vet board if I don't hear
> from him within 5 business days. Then I will do that. They have a
> complaint form on their website and they review complaints once a
> month. I figure that once it goes that far, the vet won't willingly
> give me any reimbursement and my only course of action after that will
> be small claims court or a lawyer, as Phil said. But I don't know how
> to find a lawyer to take a case like that. From what I've read on the
> internet, punitive damages are seldom awarded in veterinary malpractice
> cases so it would just be for my costs and that isn't enough to entice
> any lawyer I know of. I wouldn't even know what sort of lawyer to
> approach, I guess just a general one, because no one has a veterinary
> malpractice specialty.

Med malpractice will do. Many lawyers will take contingent cases for
$3000 or more. Just call around, if it comes to that. Contingency
fees are generally 25-33% if you settle without filing a case.

-L.

-L.
March 12th 06, 09:46 AM
Phil P. wrote:
>
> Do you realize now that your well-intended compassion was wasted on a
> gutter trash?

yep. Silly me!

>
> When Kami is finally released from her life of abuse, the bimbo will
> probably plaster Kami's death all over the internet to get attention and
> sympathy. She better not come here looking for sympathy.

I know she already got all she will ever get from me.

-L.

CatNipped
March 12th 06, 05:35 PM
"Candace" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> -L. wrote:
>
>> I agree with everything, except I would still send it certified mail.
>> Otherwise some dumb-assed dingbat in the office may not give him the
>> letter. It's the only way to ensure he actually receives it.
>>
>> When my dog died, I wrote a really nice personal letter to my vet,
>> thanking him for his kindness and compassion in her treatment, and
>> informing him that I had her euthanized at home by a vet that does home
>> visits (I included a pic of her taken shortly before her demise). This
>> was a vet I had extremely good rapport with, and considered a real
>> asset to the community, and told him as much in my letter. The next
>> time I visited with my other dog (9 mos later), he asked how Tosh was -
>> he had no idea I had euthanized her. I was ****ed! Stupid-assed
>> dingbats in the office never even gave him the letter I sent. They
>> probably freaking threw it in the trash.
>>
>> -L.
>
> I delivered the letter in person today. I was going to wait until I
> went to get his ashes but they're not back yet and it was eating at me
> that I knew all this and the vet didn't have a clue: as far as he was
> concerned, I was thrilled with the vet care Scottie received. So I
> left the letter (after I got 2 months worth of Abbey's meds and
> returned an unused bag of fluids). I'm certain he will get it; it's a
> big envelope marked "confidential." The girl said he would be in at 5
> tonight (he was out for the day at a seminar). I didn't want to ever
> have to go back to get the ashes or anything but I guess I will have to
> now. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's been almost 2 weeks and it
> was bothering me that the vet didn't know how I felt.
>
> So, we'll see. If I don't hear from him in a few days, I will send
> everything I gave him today certified along with another letter saying
> I am going to file a complaint with the state vet board if I don't hear
> from him within 5 business days. Then I will do that. They have a
> complaint form on their website and they review complaints once a
> month. I figure that once it goes that far, the vet won't willingly
> give me any reimbursement and my only course of action after that will
> be small claims court or a lawyer, as Phil said. But I don't know how
> to find a lawyer to take a case like that. From what I've read on the
> internet, punitive damages are seldom awarded in veterinary malpractice
> cases so it would just be for my costs and that isn't enough to entice
> any lawyer I know of. I wouldn't even know what sort of lawyer to
> approach, I guess just a general one, because no one has a veterinary
> malpractice specialty.
>
> I feel it all must be done for the principle of it but I don't feel it
> can avenge Scottie in any way or make it right. Scottie will still be
> dead and he will still have suffered and he still could have possibly
> been treated and survived. I'll never be able to forget how he wanted
> to eat, he was hungry, and then he would regurgitate it right back up.
> It was awful. I only hope there really is a heaven and they are all
> there and we can see them again and I hope he knows right now that I'm
> sorry I ever took him there or ever let him be hospitalized for all
> those days or that I didn't know there was a treatment until it was too
> late.
>
> My letter, by the way, is not particularly confrontational. I suppose
> the fact that I am mentioning it to him at all is confrontational in
> itself but the letter is very polite and matter-of-fact. I began it by
> saying I had always felt he was a compassionate man and that I had
> appreciated how his practice takes emergency calls and always fits
> patients in and how sad I was to have to write a letter like this and
> how I didn't feel I could trust any other animal's care to him. I
> didn't mention money or reimbursement or filing complaints or anything
> like that...just the facts on Scottie's symptoms, the doxycycline being
> administered improperly, the vial I have at home without proper
> instructions on it, the balloon dilation treatment that I was never
> informed of, etc. along with several articles included. I said I would
> welcome his response to all of this.
>
> Thank you for all your responses and support (except for 2 and one of
> those is a neo-Nazi inbred cretin that no one acknowledges anyway).
> The website is a possibility down the road if nothing else works and I
> imagine I will libel him all over the internet at some point if need
> be.
>
> Candace

Candace, let me know if you need help getting the web site up. I have tons
of disk space on my site and, since I do this for a living, I can get a site
put up in a matter of hours.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

CatNipped
March 12th 06, 05:42 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:1bBQf.661$%[email protected]
>
> "-L." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> Margarita Salt wrote:
>> >
>> > I sympathize with your situation and your loss, and trying to find a
>> > reason for why it happened, but in our sue-happy society we simply
>> > have to remember that **** happens.
>>
>> This wasn't a case of "**** happens" and in fact demonstrates WHY we
>> should question our vets. The vet was CLEARLY negligent in this case -
>> he administered a drug imporperly and killed the cat. It's a open and
>> shut case.
>>
>> > You suing your vet for using
>> > another med at your insistence is what raises vet prices for the
>> > rest of us.
>>
>> Too ****ing bad. This vet was negligent and needs to be called on the
>> carpet for it.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > Cry, and then move on.
>>
>> Remember those words when you do lose Kami, you ****. How ****ing
>> insensitve can you be?
>>
>> -L.
>
>
> Do you realize now that your well-intended compassion was wasted on a
> gutter trash?
>
> When Kami is finally released from her life of abuse, the bimbo will
> probably plaster Kami's death all over the internet to get attention and
> sympathy. She better not come here looking for sympathy.

She's already started - read the post about urns. It's like she sitting
back and rubbing her palms together anxiously awaiting the death of her poor
abused cat so she can garner some more attention to herself.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

-L.
March 15th 06, 10:56 AM
CatNipped wrote:
> She's already started - read the post about urns. It's like she sitting
> back and rubbing her palms together anxiously awaiting the death of her poor
> abused cat so she can garner some more attention to herself.

Isn't that sick!?! I was appalled when I read that!
-L.

Phil P.
March 15th 06, 06:33 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> CatNipped wrote:
> > She's already started - read the post about urns. It's like she sitting
> > back and rubbing her palms together anxiously awaiting the death of her
poor
> > abused cat so she can garner some more attention to herself.
>
> Isn't that sick!?! I was appalled when I read that!
> -L.


Her need for attention is actually pathological- she'll do anything and use
anything to get it- even her cat. She's a true sociopath.