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Elizabeth Blake
March 18th 06, 10:27 PM
Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
were just out of the normal range.

Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
the vet said to do it every day now.

I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
I went in and used the box.

The vet just called me with her blood test results:
In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
(14%).

He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
a mammary tumor removed that was benign.

I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.

The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

--
Liz

T
March 18th 06, 11:18 PM
In article >,
says...
> Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
> everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
> life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
> was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
> were just out of the normal range.
>
> Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
> she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
> found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
> say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
> sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
> and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
> vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
> ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
> down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
> trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
> an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
> not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
> the vet said to do it every day now.
>
> I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
> late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
> meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
> her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
> out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
> I went in and used the box.
>
> The vet just called me with her blood test results:
> In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
> shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
> In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
> 25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
> (14%).
>
> He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
> kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
> in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
> a mammary tumor removed that was benign.
>
> I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.
>
> The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
> is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
> x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
> couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
>
> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
> faster?
>
> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
> Monday to make a decision.

I guess I'm fortunate to have a vet that will work with me on the money
part. Modern vets do pretty much everything by computer these days so
chances are they run their own G/L and POS packages on their computers.

I know mine does.

I've also got two elderly cats. Randy is the eldest and also my first
cat - he has a small mass in his abdomen but blood panels are normal.
But we check him out ever 3 months or so and that adds up to about $200
per visit.

Emily is the next eldest and the second cat I ever had. She needs some
dental work so next month she gets that.

They were great when they were younger - Once a years in for shots and
check up at $60 or so.

In the last year I've spent $1,400 on vet bills, but that's because
Cosimo was a very sick boy and needed a two day stay, blood panels, x-
rays, fluids, catheterization, etc.

Hang in there.

Candace
March 19th 06, 12:25 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:

> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
> faster?
>
> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
> Monday to make a decision.
>
It's a very difficult decision. I understand about the money being an
issue even though I always feel badly about that. If they were human,
there wouldn't be a money issue even if they didn't have
insurance...there's usually a workaround for a human. But vets want
their money upfront, for the most part. Yes, they can do chemo on cats
and, depending on what sort of cancer it is, it can be successful. I
don't think I would do chemo on any of the cats I have or have had.
They all hate/hated the vet too much and are/were too scared and I just
don't think I would, although it's possible, I guess.

She could just be having a CRF crash that can improve with IV fluids
and some special care. It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
might wish you had known just what it was.

Good luck on your decision and I hope she bounces back. I will say
that hospitalization is not always the answer. Sometimes it's best for
them to stay at home.

Candace

mlbriggs
March 19th 06, 12:47 AM
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:27:00 -0500, Elizabeth Blake wrote:

> Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
> everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
> life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
> was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
> were just out of the normal range.
>
> Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
> she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
> found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
> say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
> sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
> and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
> vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
> ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
> down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
> trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
> an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
> not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
> the vet said to do it every day now.
>
> I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
> late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
> meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
> her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
> out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
> I went in and used the box.
>
> The vet just called me with her blood test results:
> In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
> shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
> In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
> 25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
> (14%).
>
> He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
> kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
> in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
> a mammary tumor removed that was benign.
>
> I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.
>
> The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
> is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
> x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
> couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
>
> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
> faster?
>
> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
> Monday to make a decision.


Something to consider: Does she enjoy life? Or is she suffering so much
that she cannot enjoy life? Best wishes. MLB

Kitkat
March 19th 06, 01:31 AM
Candace wrote:

> It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
> wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
> maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
> CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
> might wish you had known just what it was.


FWIW, when Dudley got sick last year, DH and I agreed that we would not
do anything very invasive with him. He had an ultrasound that showed
some thickening of tissue (stomach i think? can't even remember right
now) and to find out if it was cancerous tissue, he would have needed a
surgical biopsy. We had no intention of any surgeries for him and
*definitely* no chemo, etc. Dudley is deaf and blind and going on 14.
Generally 14 is not *that* old, but I'd say he is an "old 14".

He is a TERRRRRRRRIBLE vet patient! (understandably so!) Being
hospitalized is absolutely traumatic for him. He needs to be home!

Right now, he is doing very well and curled up on a little foot stool a
few feet away from me asleep.

He might have cancer, he might not. He does have pancreatitis and when
he has flare ups of course we get him treated. But that is all we feel
comfortable doing. In other words, our main desire is to keep our guy as
comfy and happy as we can...and part of that is allowing him to live out
his time at home where he feels safe and secure.

I don't konw what the future brings, but for now, Dudley is still
enjoying a great quality of life all things considered.

I'm not sure this was particularly helpful...but just know that lots of
us sure understand how hard it is in these situations and knowing what
to do is not always so easy. Follow your heart and gut instinct.

good luck!
pam

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 01:39 AM
"T" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >,
> says...

>> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards
>> are
>> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know
>> she
>> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
>> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two
>> days
>> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love
>> her
>> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to
>> be
>> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do
>> they
>> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
>> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
>> faster?
>>
>> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
>> Monday to make a decision.
>
> I guess I'm fortunate to have a vet that will work with me on the money
> part. Modern vets do pretty much everything by computer these days so
> chances are they run their own G/L and POS packages on their computers.
>
> I know mine does.
>
> I've also got two elderly cats. Randy is the eldest and also my first
> cat - he has a small mass in his abdomen but blood panels are normal.
> But we check him out ever 3 months or so and that adds up to about $200
> per visit.
>
> Emily is the next eldest and the second cat I ever had. She needs some
> dental work so next month she gets that.
>
> They were great when they were younger - Once a years in for shots and
> check up at $60 or so.
>
> In the last year I've spent $1,400 on vet bills, but that's because
> Cosimo was a very sick boy and needed a two day stay, blood panels, x-
> rays, fluids, catheterization, etc.
>
> Hang in there.

Tiger has been to the vet a lot over the years, mostly for her ears which
tend to get full of thick waxy brown gunk. She then starts scratching and
tearing her head up because of it. Those were cleaned out again when she
went in December and they're still looking pretty good. Otto (6.5 years
old) needs his teeth cleaned, but he'll have to wait. He's gone for a few
eye infections the first two years I had him.

None of the vets here work on payment plans. They want full payment up
front. When Tiger had her tumor removed in 2004 it came out to just under
$1,000. At the time I had more than half to pay in cash and the rest went
on a credit card. At work we have two cats and last year Harriet (8.5 years
old) went to the vet 5 times (I think) in two months and racked up about
$1,000 in bills. She's now on medication, $80/month, but my boss pays for
her care. So far Stinky, the other work cat (7.5 years old) is the only one
who has never had to go for anything other than a routine exam/shots (and
spaying, of course).

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 01:46 AM
"Candace" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>
>> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards
>> are
>> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know
>> she
>> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
>> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two
>> days
>> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love
>> her
>> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to
>> be
>> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do
>> they
>> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
>> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
>> faster?
>>
>> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
>> Monday to make a decision.
>>
> It's a very difficult decision. I understand about the money being an
> issue even though I always feel badly about that. If they were human,
> there wouldn't be a money issue even if they didn't have
> insurance...there's usually a workaround for a human. But vets want
> their money upfront, for the most part. Yes, they can do chemo on cats
> and, depending on what sort of cancer it is, it can be successful. I
> don't think I would do chemo on any of the cats I have or have had.
> They all hate/hated the vet too much and are/were too scared and I just
> don't think I would, although it's possible, I guess.

Tiger is the sweetest, most docile cat but in the last 2 years she's been
showing her displeasure every time I take her to the vet. In the past she
would just huddle in a tight ball and let them do whatever needed to be
done. Now she growls and hisses and struggles - very unlike her. She's
very good when I give her fluids at home. She might try to stand up but
mostly she's very cooperative.

> She could just be having a CRF crash that can improve with IV fluids
> and some special care. It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
> wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
> maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
> CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
> might wish you had known just what it was.
>
> Good luck on your decision and I hope she bounces back. I will say
> that hospitalization is not always the answer. Sometimes it's best for
> them to stay at home.
>
> Candace

I'm not sure sure about the chemo. Besides the money issue, I just wonder
if it would be worth it to put a sick 16 year old cat through that. When
she was at the vet yesterday, he suggested leaving her for a night or two
for fluids. Only fluids were mentioned, since her blood was just drawn and
we didn't know what the results would be. When he asked me if I wanted to
leave her, I told him that she would be happier at home. Since she managed
to get up on the small cat condo in my bedroom and wanted to cuddle with me
on the bed, I'm glad I didn't leave her. She's been moving slowly and is a
little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she did.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 01:51 AM
"mlbriggs" > wrote in message
...
>
> Something to consider: Does she enjoy life? Or is she suffering so much
> that she cannot enjoy life? Best wishes. MLB

Mostly she seems to enjoy hiding under the end table in the living room and
sleeping. She's not coming over to me looking for attention, although this
morning she did almost make it on the bed by herself and wanted to cuddle
next to me. She's been getting up frequently to go to the kitchen, maybe to
take a bite of food or a drink, then she goes right back to the living room.
No stopping next to my desk in hopes she'll get lap time. Up until
Thursday, she would have preferred to spend her entire day in my lap and now
when I hold her, she just wants to get down and go back under her table
after just a few minutes. The radiator is right there so she just might be
looking for warmth. That was her favorite sleeping spot a couple of years
ago.

She did get up when she heard me coming in the door tonight, which made me
very happy. She also seems very eager to eat at first but doesn't actually
eat much when I put the food down. She's been getting 1/4 tablet of
cyproheptadine 30 minutes before each meal but it doesn't seem to help her
appetite. She is still enthusiastic about treats, though.

--
Liz

Anna via CatKB.com
March 19th 06, 02:08 AM
>down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
>trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me

This could be a sign of low potassium or high phosphorus. I trust the vet
did a full blood profile?

>The vet just called me with her blood test results:
>In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
>shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.

Did he do a urine test too. That helps determine at which stage she's at too.
A crf cat will have low urine specific gravity.

Here are some excellent helpful crf sites:

http://www.felinecrf.com/
http://www.felinecrf.org/ - there is a good section in here about anemia

>The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
>is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
>x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
>couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
>But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
>put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
>what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even

I have no experience with cancer so I can't give you any advice about that.
But if it turns out to be just crf, that is treatable and she could still
lives for years with it.


Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

PawsForThought
March 19th 06, 02:18 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> She's been moving slowly and is a
> little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she did.

Hi Liz,
I'm so sorry to hear about Tiger. I know how difficult it is having an
elderly beloved kitty with CRF.
Was she having the unsteadiness problem before or after the appetite
stimulant? If he's giving her Periactin, it can make the cat act
drugged. That's what we used with my CRF cat and it did have that
effect on her. Also, I'm curious about the antibiotics. Does she have
an infection she's being treated for? I was just wondering why the vet
prescribed them.

Personally, it if were my cat, I would do everything I could to treat
her as long as the quality of her life was good. I don't think I would
put the cat through chemo or anything invasive if she were mine. It's
an extremely difficult decision I know. Best wishes with whatever you
decide and I hope your Tiger feels better soon.

Lauren

Phil P.
March 19th 06, 02:24 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
...
> Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
> everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
> life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that
she
> was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
> were just out of the normal range.
>
> Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late
and
> she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
> found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to
briefly
> say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
> sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I
did
> and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to
the
> vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night
she
> ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
> down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's
having
> trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave
me
> an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
> not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home,
and
> the vet said to do it every day now.
>
> I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
> late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
> meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
> her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been
keeping
> out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom
when
> I went in and used the box.
>
> The vet just called me with her blood test results:
> In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
> shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
> In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
> 25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
> (14%).
>
> He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
> kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could
be
> in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger
had
> a mammary tumor removed that was benign.
>
> I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.
>
> The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to
cancer
> is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
> x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
> couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
>
> I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards
are
> both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know
she
> doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
> Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
> of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love
her
> dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to
be
> done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
> faster?
>
> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
> Monday to make a decision.
>


I don't think its cancer- just a hunch. All the symptoms you've mentioned-
anorexia, lethargy, depression, weakness, cold intolerance, and changes in
her personality- are all classic symptoms of CRF anemia. Before you make a
irreversible decision, speak to you vet about epogen. I've seen CRF cats
make dramatic turnarounds after epo therapy. If your vet isn't familiar
with epo therapy, please seek a second opinion.

Keep the faith.

Phil

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 04:12 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's
> >having
>>trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave
>>me
>
> This could be a sign of low potassium or high phosphorus. I trust the vet
> did a full blood profile?

I assume he did. I know that her thyroid levels were also checked and those
were fine.

>>The vet just called me with her blood test results:
>>In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
>>shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
>
> Did he do a urine test too. That helps determine at which stage she's at
> too.
> A crf cat will have low urine specific gravity.

Yes. He said the urine shows that she's still in mild-moderate kidney
failure. They also did a urine culture but those results aren't back yet.

>>The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to
>>cancer
>>is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
>>x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
>>couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
>>But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
>>put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
>>what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
>
> I have no experience with cancer so I can't give you any advice about
> that.
> But if it turns out to be just crf, that is treatable and she could still
> lives for years with it.

Thanks, Anna. She's already 16 years old and I've heard of CRF cats that
can live for quite awhile after diagnosis. If she has other problems that
makes my decision even harder.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 04:18 PM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Elizabeth Blake wrote:
>> She's been moving slowly and is a
>> little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she
>> did.
>
> Hi Liz,
> I'm so sorry to hear about Tiger. I know how difficult it is having an
> elderly beloved kitty with CRF.
> Was she having the unsteadiness problem before or after the appetite
> stimulant? If he's giving her Periactin, it can make the cat act
> drugged. That's what we used with my CRF cat and it did have that
> effect on her. Also, I'm curious about the antibiotics. Does she have
> an infection she's being treated for? I was just wondering why the vet
> prescribed them.

I think the antibiotic is as a precaution. He said that her abnormal blood
test results could be due to cancer or could be due to an infection, so he
wanted to start an antibiotic. They did a urine culture but the results
aren't back yet. As she's gotten older she's become less steady on her feet
but nothing like now. I noticed it Thursday night, when she was hiding and
not wanting to eat. She started the stimulant on Friday so it's not due to
that. She's taking 1/4 tablet of Cyproheptadine 4mg. Doesn't seem to be
doing anything for her appetite though.


> Personally, it if were my cat, I would do everything I could to treat
> her as long as the quality of her life was good. I don't think I would
> put the cat through chemo or anything invasive if she were mine. It's
> an extremely difficult decision I know. Best wishes with whatever you
> decide and I hope your Tiger feels better soon.
>
> Lauren

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that I wouldn't want to put her
through anything like chemo, or surgery. If she was a young cat I'd
consider it but she's a senior and had already slowed down considerably the
past few years.

--
Liz

Elizabeth Blake
March 19th 06, 04:34 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> I don't think its cancer- just a hunch. All the symptoms you've
> mentioned-
> anorexia, lethargy, depression, weakness, cold intolerance, and changes in
> her personality- are all classic symptoms of CRF anemia. Before you make
> a
> irreversible decision, speak to you vet about epogen. I've seen CRF cats
> make dramatic turnarounds after epo therapy. If your vet isn't familiar
> with epo therapy, please seek a second opinion.
>
> Keep the faith.
>
> Phil

Thanks, Phil. I Googled epogen and what I read describes Tiger. I'll call
the vet on Monday and ask about it. On Friday, he mentioned that her
heartbeat sounded off, I think he called it galloping. Other than epogen,
are there any other treatments for feline anemia? Special diet? He said
that she doesn't need to be on a prescription food yet for the kidneys.

She got all the way on the bed by herself this morning. When Otto got too
close she even smacked him, which was nice to see. Otto is still hissing &
growling at her when he remembers. Last night I cut open a box for her,
because she loves sleeping in boxes. She spent a long time rubbing her face
against the edges like old times, before settling down for a nap. Otto's
entire being is consumed with evicting her from the box so he can have it
for himself, and she pretty much lets him. She's now back under the end
table by the radiator. She used the litterbox last night and looked like
she was going to go again this morning but decided against it. I'm going to
put her in anyway. She's been going twice a day most days, after a lifetime
of urinating only once every 24 hours. The vet said she doesn't have any
blockage, which is what every other vet has said when she was checked. Her
urine culture results should be back in a couple of days.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to have the abdominal ultrasound done.
Even if they find cancer, I don't think I'd put her through any invasive
procedures or chemo. I always thought that she'd live to at least 18 but
she has slowed down a lot in the last couple of years. I just want her to
see her Sweet 16 on April 12th, and hopefully months to come after that.

--
Liz

Arubalisa
March 19th 06, 05:15 PM
No special diet??? That's strange, the first thing our vet did for our
CRF boy was to prescribe high moisture, low protein food. And then of
course fluids.

Like Phil said, anemia as a result of the CRF can be treated. When our
boy was first dx, I thought it was a death sentence. Since his original
crash though, with TLC, diet and fluids, he has rebounded and is more
lively than ever.

blkcatgal
March 19th 06, 05:50 PM
You may want to join the feline crf group on yahoo.com. There are a lot of
people there dealing with cats with crf. Also, check out the felinecrf.com
site. Lots of useful info. I'm surprised your vet didn't recommend a
special diet. While there is some differences in opinion about feeding a
cat with crf a low protein diet, you should be feeding your cat food low in
phosphorous.

Hope all goes well for Tiger.

Sue
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> I don't think its cancer- just a hunch. All the symptoms you've
>> mentioned-
>> anorexia, lethargy, depression, weakness, cold intolerance, and changes
>> in
>> her personality- are all classic symptoms of CRF anemia. Before you make
>> a
>> irreversible decision, speak to you vet about epogen. I've seen CRF cats
>> make dramatic turnarounds after epo therapy. If your vet isn't familiar
>> with epo therapy, please seek a second opinion.
>>
>> Keep the faith.
>>
>> Phil
>
> Thanks, Phil. I Googled epogen and what I read describes Tiger. I'll
> call the vet on Monday and ask about it. On Friday, he mentioned that her
> heartbeat sounded off, I think he called it galloping. Other than epogen,
> are there any other treatments for feline anemia? Special diet? He said
> that she doesn't need to be on a prescription food yet for the kidneys.
>
> She got all the way on the bed by herself this morning. When Otto got too
> close she even smacked him, which was nice to see. Otto is still hissing
> & growling at her when he remembers. Last night I cut open a box for her,
> because she loves sleeping in boxes. She spent a long time rubbing her
> face against the edges like old times, before settling down for a nap.
> Otto's entire being is consumed with evicting her from the box so he can
> have it for himself, and she pretty much lets him. She's now back under
> the end table by the radiator. She used the litterbox last night and
> looked like she was going to go again this morning but decided against it.
> I'm going to put her in anyway. She's been going twice a day most days,
> after a lifetime of urinating only once every 24 hours. The vet said she
> doesn't have any blockage, which is what every other vet has said when she
> was checked. Her urine culture results should be back in a couple of
> days.
>
> I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to have the abdominal ultrasound done.
> Even if they find cancer, I don't think I'd put her through any invasive
> procedures or chemo. I always thought that she'd live to at least 18 but
> she has slowed down a lot in the last couple of years. I just want her to
> see her Sweet 16 on April 12th, and hopefully months to come after that.
>
> --
> Liz
>

Phil P.
March 19th 06, 06:18 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > I don't think its cancer- just a hunch. All the symptoms you've
> > mentioned-
> > anorexia, lethargy, depression, weakness, cold intolerance, and changes
in
> > her personality- are all classic symptoms of CRF anemia. Before you
make
> > a
> > irreversible decision, speak to you vet about epogen. I've seen CRF
cats
> > make dramatic turnarounds after epo therapy. If your vet isn't familiar
> > with epo therapy, please seek a second opinion.
> >
> > Keep the faith.
> >
> > Phil
>
> Thanks, Phil. I Googled epogen and what I read describes Tiger. I'll
call
> the vet on Monday and ask about it. On Friday, he mentioned that her
> heartbeat sounded off, I think he called it galloping.


If she's anemic, the murmur is probably *physiologic*- and not due to heart
disease. Anemia can *easily* cause a heart murmur because the blood is
thinner
.. Most murmurs are caused by turbulence- its much easier to produce
turbulence in thin blood than normal blood which
is much thicker (e.g., water vs. honey). Also, since the blood contains
less RBCs that carry the oxygen, the stroke volume (velocity) must increase
to compensate. So, the combination of decreased blood viscosity plus the
increased stroke volume (increased velocity) can cause a *physiologic* heart
murmur without any heart disease whatsoever. The stress and excitement from
the trip and vet's office- not to mention restraint and drawing blood, also
increased her heart rate which would make an anemic murmur even louder.
Usually the murmur resolves automatically as soon as the anemia is
corrected. So, don't worry too much about the murmur just yet- see what
shows up on the ultrasound.



Other than epogen,
> are there any other treatments for feline anemia?


Depends on the type of anemia-- but usually iron- especially if she gets
epogen. The stimulated RBC production puts a heavy drain on the body iron
stores. You might want to ask your vet to check her stool for blood
(melena) to make
sure her anemia isn't caused by blood loss through the GI tract.



Special diet? He said
> that she doesn't need to be on a prescription food yet for the kidneys.


A high protein diet is probably best for anemia- but since she might be in
early-stage CRF, that type of diet might raise her BUN which could make her
feel sick. Higher protein diets are also usually higher in phosphorus-
which wouldn't be good for her (or any cat). I would go with a regular
moderate protein, meat-based diet.


>
> She got all the way on the bed by herself this morning. When Otto got too
> close she even smacked him, which was nice to see. Otto is still hissing
&
> growling at her when he remembers. Last night I cut open a box for her,
> because she loves sleeping in boxes. She spent a long time rubbing her
face
> against the edges like old times, before settling down for a nap. Otto's
> entire being is consumed with evicting her from the box so he can have it
> for himself, and she pretty much lets him. She's now back under the end
> table by the radiator.


How about setting up another box under the table near the radiator?



She used the litterbox last night and looked like
> she was going to go again this morning but decided against it. I'm going
to
> put her in anyway. She's been going twice a day most days, after a
lifetime
> of urinating only once every 24 hours. The vet said she doesn't have any
> blockage, which is what every other vet has said when she was checked.
Her
> urine culture results should be back in a couple of days.


If she's in early CRF, her urine might be a little dilute- which makes her
more susceptible to UTIs. So, its a good idea to keep the litterbox
exceptionally clean.


>
> I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to have the abdominal ultrasound done.

> Even if they find cancer, I don't think I'd put her through any invasive
> procedures or chemo.


I've had cats treated with chemo- they tolerate it quite well- *much* better
than humans- So, if I were you, I'd keep that option open.



I always thought that she'd live to at least 18 but
> she has slowed down a lot in the last couple of years. I just want her to
> see her Sweet 16 on April 12th, and hopefully months to come after that.


I've had cats that lived >6 years post CRF diagnosis. With proper treatment
and a lot of TLC (of which I know you have an abundance), she'll probably
live a lot longer than 16!

Keep the faith.

Best of luck,

Phil

PawsForThought
March 19th 06, 09:39 PM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:

> "PawsForThought" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> >> She's been moving slowly and is a
> >> little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she
> >> did.
> >
> > Hi Liz,
> > I'm so sorry to hear about Tiger. I know how difficult it is having an
> > elderly beloved kitty with CRF.
> > Was she having the unsteadiness problem before or after the appetite
> > stimulant? If he's giving her Periactin, it can make the cat act
> > drugged. That's what we used with my CRF cat and it did have that
> > effect on her. Also, I'm curious about the antibiotics. Does she have
> > an infection she's being treated for? I was just wondering why the vet
> > prescribed them.
>
> I think the antibiotic is as a precaution. He said that her abnormal blood
> test results could be due to cancer or could be due to an infection, so he
> wanted to start an antibiotic. They did a urine culture but the results
> aren't back yet. As she's gotten older she's become less steady on her feet
> but nothing like now. I noticed it Thursday night, when she was hiding and
> not wanting to eat. She started the stimulant on Friday so it's not due to
> that. She's taking 1/4 tablet of Cyproheptadine 4mg. Doesn't seem to be
> doing anything for her appetite though.

When we had Queenie on Periactin, it really perked up her appetite for
a couple of days, but then stopped working. I do recall she had some
wobliness but now that I think of it, it was before she took the
appetite stimulant. I think it's just a symptom of the CRF that cats
get weak hind quarters.

PawsForThought
March 19th 06, 09:48 PM
Arubalisa wrote:
> No special diet??? That's strange, the first thing our vet did for our
> CRF boy was to prescribe high moisture, low protein food. And then of
> course fluids.
>
> Like Phil said, anemia as a result of the CRF can be treated. When our
> boy was first dx, I thought it was a death sentence. Since his original
> crash though, with TLC, diet and fluids, he has rebounded and is more
> lively than ever.

Fluids helped a great deal with my CRF cat. Another thing that helped
was joining one of the CRF support groups. Here are a couple of them
if you're interested:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Caring-for-CRF-Felines/

Take care,
Lauren

Anna via CatKB.com
March 19th 06, 10:43 PM
>are there any other treatments for feline anemia? Special diet? He said
>that she doesn't need to be on a prescription food yet for the kidneys.

Wow, really? At 16 years old with a creatinine of 3.6, your vet should
absolutely have her put on a kidney diet. My cat is 13 and has a creatinine
of 3.1 and is on it.



Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

March 20th 06, 02:54 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:

> But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
> put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
> what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
> faster?
>
> I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
> Monday to make a decision.

Speaking from experience with a person, not a cat - I personally
wouldn't do any aggressive treatments. Quality of life is hugely
important, and these treatments can just zap the quality of the short
time left. So what if they get 2 years instead of 6 months if the 2
years are awful?

And its worse with animals - they have no concept of the future, and
don't know why they have to go through pain and misery to prolong the
future they can't envision.

What I wd do is keep the cat as happy as possible for whatever time she
has left.

DB
JMO

Phil P.
March 20th 06, 07:06 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >are there any other treatments for feline anemia? Special diet? He said
> >that she doesn't need to be on a prescription food yet for the kidneys.
>
> Wow, really? At 16 years old with a creatinine of 3.6, your vet should
> absolutely have her put on a kidney diet.


Normally, I would agree, but the cat is anemic- restricting protein in an
anemic cat can further compromise erythrogenesis. She needs protein for
hemoglobin production to correct her anemia. Reversing anemia takes
priority over BUN/Cr. since anemia can kill a cat much quicker than a little
azotemia.

The ideal diet compromise would probably be Hill's Prescription x/d.

Elizabeth Blake
March 21st 06, 04:13 AM
Today I spoke with the vet who saw Tiger back in December. The doctor she
saw on Friday wasn't in.

Today, the vet talked about the shots that (I think) Phil mentioned. She
said I would have to bring her in every other day for a shot & a blood test.
She also mentioned a blood transfusion. She said that both of those
treatments would only work if Tiger's anemia is caused by her kidneys, not
if it's due to cancer and she feels that it is cancer. I wouldn't know the
cause unless she has the ultrasound. If it is cancer, the vet said options
would be surgery to remove it if it was a mass/tumor, followed by radiation
or chemo. I don't possibly see how Tiger could recover from all of that.
Even before the first signs of kidney disease back in December, she had
slowed down considerably. Until a couple of years ago she'd even play with
Otto sometimes if the game suited her. Then she just couldn't be bothered.
She had a harder time jumping up on anything, even the futon in the living
room which isn't very high. I had to put a box (and now a small cat condo)
by my bed otherwise she'd never be able to get up on it. Again, this all
started maybe two years ago.

I love Tiger to death, she's my first cat, but I have to be realistic. I
can't afford every test and procedure that the vets mention, especially not
$55 every other day for the shots/tests. Tiger is not a young cat. She's
not the kind of cat that people say, "Wow, she's xx years old? She doesn't
look it". She's looked old for awhile now.

I asked the vet about food. Tiger is not eating much at all even with the
stimulant. The vet said to try to get her to eat anything, even table
scraps and treats. She had some wet food tonight as well as some treats
(freeze dried chicken, Temptations) but not much. I have no chicken or deli
meat at home to tempt her. I offered her a little cream cheese this morning
but she didn't want any, and she loves all kinds of cheese.

I wanted to ask the vet about what to do if Tiger crashes so bad that she
won't respond to me at all but couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't want
her to be in pain and she doesn't seem to be, but she's mostly disinterested
in everything. She seems to feel best in the morning, even getting into the
bedroom and up on the bed with me. She'll follow me into the bathroom to
use the box and then into the kitchen, but by then she's exhausted and just
wants to go back to her cardboard box, which Otto is letting her have now
for the most part.

--
Liz

Phil P.
March 21st 06, 05:54 AM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Today I spoke with the vet who saw Tiger back in December. The doctor she
> saw on Friday wasn't in.
>
> Today, the vet talked about the shots that (I think) Phil mentioned. She
> said I would have to bring her in every other day for a shot & a blood
test.


Liz, I think you need to find a vet who is experienced in treating cats with
CRF because this is simply not how Epo therapy is administered. Epo is
given subcutaneously- if you can give your cat fluid therapy or insulin, you
can give your cat Epo at home- you don't have to take her to vet for
treatments. Second: her PCV/Hct only has to monitored once, or at the most,
twice a week- and all that needs to be drawn is a drop or two of blood- you
don't need a full blood work up. Depending on the lab your vet uses, the
blood sample can be taken from the ear- the same way as with diabetic cats.

You can buy a vial of 2000 IU Epo at any human pharmacy for about $25 which
should be good for about 10 doses (depending on the dose) - If you buy the
Epo from the vet you'll probably pay $50-$75. The syringes w/needle cost
about .20 a peice. So, Epo therapy isn't very expensive and it should make
her feel a LOT better. Just be sure to ask a vet about an iron supplement.


> She also mentioned a blood transfusion. She said that both of those
> treatments would only work if Tiger's anemia is caused by her kidneys, not
> if it's due to cancer and she feels that it is cancer.


What makes her so sure its cancer? Based on the information she gave you
about Epo- I don't think she has much experience with CRF associated anemia-
or just CRF for that matter.

Some vets push worst case scenarios to discourage you from treating the cat
because they don't have much or any experience with certain diseases or
treatments and they don't want the client to know it. They'd rather make
you think euthanizing the cat is the best thing to do.

Liz, before you start envisioning worst case scenarios, please- please seek
a second opinion.


Keep the faith,

Phil

T
March 21st 06, 12:11 PM
In article et>,
says...
> Today I spoke with the vet who saw Tiger back in December. The doctor she
> saw on Friday wasn't in.
>
> Today, the vet talked about the shots that (I think) Phil mentioned. She
> said I would have to bring her in every other day for a shot & a blood test.
> She also mentioned a blood transfusion. She said that both of those
> treatments would only work if Tiger's anemia is caused by her kidneys, not
> if it's due to cancer and she feels that it is cancer. I wouldn't know the
> cause unless she has the ultrasound. If it is cancer, the vet said options
> would be surgery to remove it if it was a mass/tumor, followed by radiation
> or chemo. I don't possibly see how Tiger could recover from all of that.
> Even before the first signs of kidney disease back in December, she had
> slowed down considerably. Until a couple of years ago she'd even play with
> Otto sometimes if the game suited her. Then she just couldn't be bothered.
> She had a harder time jumping up on anything, even the futon in the living
> room which isn't very high. I had to put a box (and now a small cat condo)
> by my bed otherwise she'd never be able to get up on it. Again, this all
> started maybe two years ago.
>
> I love Tiger to death, she's my first cat, but I have to be realistic. I
> can't afford every test and procedure that the vets mention, especially not
> $55 every other day for the shots/tests. Tiger is not a young cat. She's
> not the kind of cat that people say, "Wow, she's xx years old? She doesn't
> look it". She's looked old for awhile now.
>
> I asked the vet about food. Tiger is not eating much at all even with the
> stimulant. The vet said to try to get her to eat anything, even table
> scraps and treats. She had some wet food tonight as well as some treats
> (freeze dried chicken, Temptations) but not much. I have no chicken or deli
> meat at home to tempt her. I offered her a little cream cheese this morning
> but she didn't want any, and she loves all kinds of cheese.
>
> I wanted to ask the vet about what to do if Tiger crashes so bad that she
> won't respond to me at all but couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't want
> her to be in pain and she doesn't seem to be, but she's mostly disinterested
> in everything. She seems to feel best in the morning, even getting into the
> bedroom and up on the bed with me. She'll follow me into the bathroom to
> use the box and then into the kitchen, but by then she's exhausted and just
> wants to go back to her cardboard box, which Otto is letting her have now
> for the most part.

Liz,

There comes a point where you may have to make the decision to
euthanize. I went through the very same thing with Cosimo and even
though he wasn't my first cat, he was the first I ever had to euthanize.

I looked at it from two perspecitves:

First, quality of life for Cosimo. Being taken to the vet every couple
days for tests, constant injection, etc. take their toll even worse than
disease sometimes. In Cosimo's case it would have meant dialysis, and it
really only would have prolonged his agony.

Second is the financial. With Cosimo it was $1,100 - way more than I'd
ever budgeted for veterinary care. Usually it's $30 for a physical, then
another $20 or so for vaccinations.

So I wish you the best and hope I've made the decision easier for you.

Tony

Elizabeth Blake
March 21st 06, 09:26 PM
This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
minutes.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
to even try any of them.

Tiger
4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)
March 21st 06, 09:29 PM
I am so sorry Elizabeth


"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a
> few dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my
> apartment, she was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for
> her final minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>

CatNipped
March 21st 06, 09:47 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a
> few dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my
> apartment, she was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for
> her final minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

{{{{{{{{{{Elizabeth}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry to hear this. Purrs for your broken heart and a candle will be
lit to help Tiger on her way to the Rainbow Bridge.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

cybercat
March 21st 06, 10:01 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a
few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment,
she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>
>

I'm so sorry, Elizabeth. You did your very best--running out to get the
money
to get her to the vet was the right thing to do. She knows you love her and
that
you took the best possible care of her. I am very sad for you, and so sorry
you
had to lose her.

John Ross Mc Master
March 21st 06, 10:03 PM
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:43 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake"
> wrote:

>This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
>her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
>all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
>dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
>dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
>was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
>minutes.
>
>Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
>to even try any of them.
>
>Tiger
>4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>
Tiger must have known that you were making an effort on her behalf.
Don't feel bad. You did the right thing.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 21st 06, 10:14 PM
>This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
>>Tiger
>4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

I'm so sorry about Tiger. I'm sure she left this world knowing she was loved
very much.


Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

PawsForThought
March 21st 06, 10:43 PM
Liz, I am so sorry for your loss. Please try not to beat yourself up
that you weren't there at the very end. These things just happen
unfortunately. Most important, Tiger knew just how much she was loved
by you.

Hugs,
Lauren
***************************
Weep not for me though I am gone
Into that gentle night
Grieve if you will, but not for long
Upon my soul's sweet flight.
I am at peace, my soul's at rest
There is no need for tears.
For with your love I was so blessed.
For all those many years.
There is no pain, I suffer not,
The fear now all is gone.
Put now these things out of your thoughts,
In your memory I live on.
Remember not my fight for breath
Remember not the strife.
Please do not dwell upon my death.
But celebrate my life.
Copyright 1992 Constance Jenkins
All Rights Reserved

Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)
March 21st 06, 10:51 PM
Always remember We will be there even if you can't see us.
We are always Watching and Waiting. That cool puff of air you
feel across your cheek, that fleeting touch, the feeling you have
that I was walking across your bed, that moment you swear you can
hear us, that flicker of movement out of the corner of your eye.
Is just our way of saying I love you and I am with you always even
in the darkest time We Will Always Be There. Till our paws touch again
always know we love you and cherished our special time together

Author
Matthew AKA NMR (NO More Retail)

T
March 21st 06, 10:52 PM
In article . net>,
says...
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

You have my condolences. You had her for 16 years and gave her a home.
That's more than can be said for many, many cats out there.

March 22nd 06, 12:18 AM
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:43 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake"
> wrote:

>This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
>her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
>all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
>dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
>dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
>was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
>minutes.
>
>Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
>to even try any of them.
>
>Tiger
>4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

Elizabeth,

I'm so sorry for your loss.
>

Maria
March 22nd 06, 12:42 AM
I'm so sorry to hear about Tiger.. You gave her many years of love.

Purrs and love,
Maria &
Sasha, Liz, Ben, & Jack
> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:43 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake"
> > wrote:
>
>>This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
>>her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
>>all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
>>dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a
>>few
>>dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment,
>>she
>>was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
>>minutes.
>>
>>Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
>>to even try any of them.
>>
>>Tiger
>>4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>
> Elizabeth,
>
> I'm so sorry for your loss.
>>
>

Cheryl Sellner
March 22nd 06, 12:47 AM
On Tue 21 Mar 2006 04:26:43p, Elizabeth Blake wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
hlink.net):

> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box,
> laying with her head right up against the radiator. She had
> vomited, and it was stuck all over her. She was in extremely
> bad shape. I called the vet, then got dressed as fast as I
> could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few dollars
> in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment,
> she was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for
> her final minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't
> have a chance to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>
>
>

I'm so sorry. :(

--
Cheryl

mlbriggs
March 22nd 06, 01:19 AM
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:43 +0000, Elizabeth Blake wrote:

> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006


"...Rise up slowly, Angel. It's hard to let you go..."
Sincere condolences. MLB

Candace
March 22nd 06, 02:12 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

I'm very sorry, Liz. Tiger made the decision for you so you didn't
have to try to decide when the time was right to let her go. I know it
was a shock to you but, in many ways, it's nice that she could die in
her own home at her own time. It's always so awful to have to drag
them out to the vet to be put to sleep. Don't feel badly that you
weren't there...she very possibly was so out of it that she wouldn't
have even known. She had a good, long life and you can cherish the
good memories. It was just 3 weeks ago today that my Scottie died so I
know how you feel.

Candace

Kitkat
March 22nd 06, 03:40 AM
Many hugs and purrs for you, Elizabeth. My eyes are welled up for you
and Tiger. Lots of love and healing for you!

:)
Pam (Luna & Dudley, too!!!)

Brian Link
March 22nd 06, 05:44 AM
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:43 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake"
> wrote:

>This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
>her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
>all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
>dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
>dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
>was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
>minutes.
>
>Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
>to even try any of them.
>
>Tiger
>4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006
>

Cats seem so strong, but they're really such delicate little
creatures. I'm so sorry for your loss now - the pain is excruciating -
but take heart in the fact that there's some other little roamer
hoping for a home, that you can take into yours. We've seen this over
and over again. I still hurt thinking about Howard or Abbie or Tom -
but we now have Chloe and Tiger and Louis. Humans are god-sends to
kitties.

Buck up - we weep with you.

BLink
--------------------------
"The worst thing about censorship is [redacted]"

-L.
March 22nd 06, 06:06 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006

I'm so sorry, Elizabeth.
-L.

March 22nd 06, 07:08 AM
Elizabeth, I am very sorry for the loss of Tiger. Our precious little
ones are never with us long enough. There is nothing more special than
the love of that certain little kitty that loves us so uncondionally. I
believe that someday we all meet again in a much better place where we
can be happy together forever.
Thoughts and prayers, Erm

Lesley
March 22nd 06, 09:15 AM
Hugs from me and purrs from the Furballs (and another bad case of misty
monitor syndrome!) You did all you could for Tiger

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

March 22nd 06, 11:58 AM
Elizabeth Blake wrote:
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment, she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.

Sorry about your cat...you did the best you could.

In a way, it's good that she didn't have to go to the vet one last time
but died at home in her own space.

DB

Phil P.
March 22nd 06, 12:46 PM
"Elizabeth Blake" > wrote in message
link.net...
> This morning I woke up and Tiger was out of her cardboard box, laying with
> her head right up against the radiator. She had vomited, and it was stuck
> all over her. She was in extremely bad shape. I called the vet, then got
> dressed as fast as I could. I had to run to an ATM because I only had a
few
> dollars in cash and I needed cab fare. When I got back to my apartment,
she
> was gone. I feel sick that I wasn't there to hold her for her final
> minutes.
>
> Thank you everyone for your suggestions & advice. We didn't have a chance
> to even try any of them.
>
> Tiger
> 4/12/1990 - 3/21/2006


I'm very, very, sorry, Liz.

Phil

Barb
March 22nd 06, 03:33 PM
So sorry about Tiger. You did your best. Pets, like people, so rarely if
ever do they have the gentle parting that we'd wish.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.

Arubalisa
March 23rd 06, 03:37 AM
There are no words...so, so sorry...
__
http://www.hoosierkitties.com Hoosier Kitties- Resource Links for You
About Your Cat

Elizabeth Blake
March 23rd 06, 06:09 AM
Thanks to everyone. This was actually the second time I lost Tiger. 8.5
years ago, when she was still a working cat, she slipped out very late one
night when my boss was locking up. He didn't realize she had gone outside.
I got in the next morning and she was gone. I cried for a week straight. 3
weeks to the day she disappeared, she came back. Skinny & filthy but
otherwise unharmed. That time was worse in a way, because all I could do
was imagine the worst. I retired her after that, and she came home to live
with me.

Since she was a work cat, there were many, many people who knew & loved her.
One of my bosses, who is at a different location than I am, called me today
and we talked for a long time. My other boss (at my location) was also
wonderful. When I spoke with an ex-cowoorker who is also the person who
took care of my guys when I was away, we were both in tears. It does help
me a lot to know that Tiger was loved by so many. Talking about her funny
little quirks and her exploits...

I don't think Otto realizes that anything is different, although he has been
quieter since Tiger first crashed last week. One day I'll think about
getting him a new friend, but I don't know when that would be.

--
Liz

March 24th 06, 12:35 PM
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:09:51 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake"
> wrote:

>Thanks to everyone. This was actually the second time I lost Tiger. 8.5
>years ago, when she was still a working cat, she slipped out very late one
>night when my boss was locking up. He didn't realize she had gone outside.
>I got in the next morning and she was gone. I cried for a week straight. 3
>weeks to the day she disappeared, she came back. Skinny & filthy but
>otherwise unharmed. That time was worse in a way, because all I could do
>was imagine the worst. I retired her after that, and she came home to live
>with me.
>
>Since she was a work cat, there were many, many people who knew & loved her.
>One of my bosses, who is at a different location than I am, called me today
>and we talked for a long time. My other boss (at my location) was also
>wonderful. When I spoke with an ex-cowoorker who is also the person who
>took care of my guys when I was away, we were both in tears. It does help
>me a lot to know that Tiger was loved by so many. Talking about her funny
>little quirks and her exploits...
>
>I don't think Otto realizes that anything is different, although he has been
>quieter since Tiger first crashed last week. One day I'll think about
>getting him a new friend, but I don't know when that would be.


Give it some time. You'll know when the time is right.