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View Full Version : Re: Update on Caring for 11 year old cat - he's too fat!


cybercat
March 21st 06, 01:17 AM
"Julie" > wrote in message
...
> Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the
> vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He
> weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should
> cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will
> be back tomorrow
>
> He last owners fed his deli cat which strikes me as being, well, crap.
> So, I'll try him on some better quality food while he works on
> trimming his figure. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has
> helped their kitty get down in size.

I have posted this before, but it really worked so here goes.

My petite female shorthair tuxedo cat weighed 18 lbs and should have weighed
8 according to the vet. At 10 year old she had thyroid trouble and a heart
problem. The weird thing is, her thyroid was overactive, so she should have
been skinny, BUT the vet says they do see this every now and then.

He told me to reduce her food by 1/4, and when she stopped losing
weight to do it again. However, because what I read convinced me that
canned food was better for her, I switched her from being free fed dry
to getting premium canned food in equal portions 12 hours apart. She began
to lose immediatedlly. When she stopped, I reduced the portion by 1/4.
She continued to lose until she was 8-9 lbs. She now has her kitty figure
back and is happy and shiny. I feed Fancy Feast, the varieties that have
real meat as a first ingredient (as opposed to byproducts), and this is not
the best but pretty good quality. Good luck to Bubble! And good luck
to you if he is as aggressive about being fed as my Boo is!

Rene S.
March 21st 06, 02:29 AM
cybercat wrote:
> "Julie" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the
> > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He
> > weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should
> > cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will
> > be back tomorrow
> >

Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

Feel free to email me directly for details.

Rene

cybercat
March 21st 06, 04:49 AM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> cybercat wrote:
> > "Julie" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the
> > > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He
> > > weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should
> > > cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will
> > > be back tomorrow
> > >
>
> Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
> nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
> http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>
> Feel free to email me directly for details.
>

Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula?

Miami Jones
March 21st 06, 05:40 AM
cybercat wrote:

> Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula?

you talkin bout weight loss?

make food avail the same way you do for yourself

then the cats personality will meter the intake

some cats are fat cats and are better off fat

just like women, some women look wonderful fat
I like voluptuous women... in the Georgian days it was very vogue to be
fat

im no different

milk and honey baby, fat is in!

we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time
cept you,
you were talkin bout the end of the world

MaryL
March 21st 06, 02:01 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> cybercat wrote:
>> "Julie" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the
>> > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He
>> > weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should
>> > cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will
>> > be back tomorrow
>> >
>
> Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
> nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
> http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>
> Feel free to email me directly for details.
>
> Rene
>

Good job! I have looked at your web page on other occasions, and I looked
at it again yesterday. You really "did it right." The gradual
weight-reduction was right on-target.

MaryL

Rene S.
March 21st 06, 04:24 PM
Actually, there isn't a magic formula--just counting calories and using
common sense, like you would for yourself. It's easier to read the
pages and look at the photos, as there is too much information to post
here. If anyone has specific questions, like I said, you may email me.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 21st 06, 04:25 PM
>8 according to the vet. At 10 year old she had thyroid trouble and a heart
>problem. The weird thing is, her thyroid was overactive, so she should have
>been skinny, BUT the vet says they do see this every now and then.

I'm really interested in hearing more about this. Were there any symptoms of
her thyroid being overactive? The reason I'm asking is because one of my
cats is about 14 lbs (14 yrs old) and I haven't bothered to have her thyroid
checked, just blood, because I always thought she would be skinny if she had
an overactive thyroid. Now I'm thinking maybe I should get it done when she
goes this year.


Anna

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 04:39 PM
"Miami Jones" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> cybercat wrote:
>
> > Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula?
>
> you talkin bout weight loss?
>

Actually, I was wondering why Rene asked the OP to email her instead
of sharing her formula for kitty weight loss with the group. I find that
strange. Why not post it? Why insist on personal contact? This is the
kind of thing Megan did all the time that I did not understand.

If I have some helpful information I am happy to share it here.

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 04:42 PM
"Miami Jones" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time
> cept you,
> you were talkin bout the end of the world
>

What's this from? :)

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 04:43 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Actually, there isn't a magic formula--just counting calories and using
> common sense, like you would for yourself. It's easier to read the
> pages and look at the photos, as there is too much information to post
> here. If anyone has specific questions, like I said, you may email me.
>

Ah, so there is a web site. Perhaps you will post the link. I am very
interested, as I bet lots of people with overweight cats must be.

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 04:44 PM
"Julie" > wrote in message
...
> "Rene S." > wrote:
> >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
> >nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
> >http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>

Oh, so you did post the web page. Well, I still don't get the
"email me" part, but whatever.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 22nd 06, 05:53 PM
>That webpage was helpful, thanks. It shows that it can be done! I'm
>going to try to find some canned food that Bubble will eat then go for
>twice daily feedings. The vet emphasized that the weight loss should
>be slow, and also suggested I bring him in for a monthly weigh in with
>a vet tech.
>I also heard back from the vet. She said he's in pretty good health,
>the blood and urine tests all came back within normal range.
>Definitely healthy enough to go under for dental care next week. So,
>looks like my new buddy will be around for a long time.

Just remember, it doesn't matter if it's dry or wet food, what matters is the
amount of calories the pet ingests per day.


Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

Anna via CatKB.com
March 22nd 06, 08:05 PM
>Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
>nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
>http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

3/4 cup of Hill's r/d = 198 calories
3/4 cup of Hill's m/d = 360 calories
1 5.5 can of Wellness = anywhere from 167 calories to 181 calories, depending
on the flavor

You were giving your cat one can of Wellness per day; therefore, the lower
amount of calories is what caused his weight loss, not the fact that it was
canned food. I know of many cats who lost weight eating dry.


Anna

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 09:15 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >That webpage was helpful, thanks. It shows that it can be done! I'm
> >going to try to find some canned food that Bubble will eat then go for
> >twice daily feedings. The vet emphasized that the weight loss should
> >be slow, and also suggested I bring him in for a monthly weigh in with
> >a vet tech.
> >I also heard back from the vet. She said he's in pretty good health,
> >the blood and urine tests all came back within normal range.
> >Definitely healthy enough to go under for dental care next week. So,
> >looks like my new buddy will be around for a long time.
>
> Just remember, it doesn't matter if it's dry or wet food, what matters is
the
> amount of calories the pet ingests per day.
>
>

However, if she does switch to canned food, she will see an immediate
improvement in her cat's general health. Shinier coat, more energy,
brighter eyes, etc.

cybercat
March 22nd 06, 09:20 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of
> >nine months. Check out his web page for more information:
> >http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>
> 3/4 cup of Hill's r/d = 198 calories
> 3/4 cup of Hill's m/d = 360 calories
> 1 5.5 can of Wellness = anywhere from 167 calories to 181 calories,
depending
> on the flavor
>
> You were giving your cat one can of Wellness per day; therefore, the lower
> amount of calories is what caused his weight loss, not the fact that it
was
> canned food. I know of many cats who lost weight eating dry.
>
>

But it is not as good for them as canned.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 23rd 06, 09:28 PM
>Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
>also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
>that you have not educated yourself in cat nutrition and insist on
>feeding a bowl of what amounts to cereal to your cats. This group
>offers lots of opportunities for learning and it would be in your cat's
>best interest for you to avail yourself of those opportunities and do
>what's right for your cat, rather than passing along outdated (and
>sometimes incorrect) information. You can begin your education here:
>www.catinfo.org
>www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html
>www.catnutrition.org

Excuse me, I have educated myself very much on cat nutrition but I prefer to
listen to a person who actually went to university and studied animal
nutrition rather than someone on a forum on the internet. You can begin your
education here:

http://www.petdiets.com/

Click on the cat and dog logo on the bottom and then click on more about the
founder Dr. Rebeccah Remillard. Tell me, what are your qualifications???

By the way, dry food has MEAT in it; it is not cereal. You want to explain
all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their whole
life?

Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

cybercat
March 23rd 06, 10:56 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
> >that you have not educated yourself in cat nutrition and insist on
> >feeding a bowl of what amounts to cereal to your cats. This group
> >offers lots of opportunities for learning and it would be in your cat's
> >best interest for you to avail yourself of those opportunities and do
> >what's right for your cat, rather than passing along outdated (and
> >sometimes incorrect) information. You can begin your education here:
> >www.catinfo.org
> >www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html
> >www.catnutrition.org
>
> Excuse me, I have educated myself very much on cat nutrition but I prefer
to
> listen to a person who actually went to university and studied animal
> nutrition rather than someone on a forum on the internet. You can begin
your
> education here:
>
> http://www.petdiets.com/
>
> Click on the cat and dog logo on the bottom and then click on more about
the
> founder Dr. Rebeccah Remillard. Tell me, what are your qualifications???
>
> By the way, dry food has MEAT in it; it is not cereal. You want to
explain
> all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their whole
> life?
>

Wow. We have a new halfwit.

cybercat
March 23rd 06, 10:59 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> This may be true, however, I don't doubt that those cats were
> miserable. With the calories you listed, the cat would only be allowed
> a tiny of amount of dry food per day. My Tucker experienced this with
> the r/d. He was only allowed 3/4 c. per day and was constantly hungry
> and begging for food. When I switched to the canned, he had more volume
> of food and was satiated, in stark contrast to the dry diet. I also did
> NOT start out giving him one can per day. I gave him 1 1/2 cans per
> day, as too drastic of a reduction in calories would have been unsafe
> for him (he would have lost weight too quickly). I slowly cut back the
> amount of canned as he lost weight, eventually holding steady at one
> can when he reached the desired weight.

This is exactly what I did. And, like you, I saw immediate benefits in my
cat's coat, eyes, energy level. Anna thinks dry food is made mostly of meat.
*shaking my head*

Cats can subsist on dry, but they thrive on quality canned food because
of the increased whole protein, moisture, and palatability. I fed my first
cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they
are doing really wonderfully.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 23rd 06, 11:26 PM
>This is exactly what I did. And, like you, I saw immediate benefits in my
>cat's coat, eyes, energy level. Anna thinks dry food is made mostly of meat.
>*shaking my head*
>Cats can subsist on dry, but they thrive on quality canned food because
>of the increased whole protein, moisture, and palatability. I fed my first
>cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they
>are doing really wonderfully.

Please tell me why my 14 year old cat is so healthy then; she has eaten dry
Science Diet her whole life; just had a blood and urine test done which was
perfect. She has a beautiful shiny coat, clear eyes, is playful, etc.
Enlighten me of great one.


Anna

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Anna via CatKB.com
March 23rd 06, 11:35 PM
>> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
>> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
>[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>> all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their whole
>> life?
>
>Wow. We have a new halfwit.

So you don't know any 20 something year old cats that have eaten dry food
their whole lives? I've known plenty. As for the halfwit remark, what makes
you any more of an expert on felines than anyone else in this group?


Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200603/1

cybercat
March 24th 06, 01:09 AM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
> >> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
> >[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >> all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their
whole
> >> life?
> >
> >Wow. We have a new halfwit.
>
> So you don't know any 20 something year old cats that have eaten dry food
> their whole lives? I've known plenty. As for the halfwit remark, what
makes
> you any more of an expert on felines than anyone else in this group?
>
>

I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One
word for you: research.

Anna via CatKB.com
March 24th 06, 02:01 AM
>I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One
>word for you: research.

As I stated, I think I will believe Dr. Romillard, a Clinical Nutritionist
with a B.S. and M.S. in Animal Science and a Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition over a
big mouthed know-it-all on the internet who has absolutely no credentials.


Anna

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

cybercat
March 24th 06, 03:03 AM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One
> >word for you: research.
>
> As I stated, I think I will believe Dr. Romillard, a Clinical Nutritionist
> with a B.S. and M.S. in Animal Science and a Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition
over a
> big mouthed know-it-all on the internet who has absolutely no credentials.
>

How would you know if I do or don't have credentials?

Anyway, here is a free clue, dimwit: don't take ANY single person's
word for it. Do some research. Get input from lots of sources and
then work that little pinhead a little. Your welcome.

Miami Jones
March 24th 06, 07:38 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message

> > we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time
> > cept you,
> > you were talkin bout the end of the world
> >
>
> What's this from? :)

i'ts a U2 song called -The End of The World

Rene S.
March 24th 06, 02:19 PM
cybercat wrote:
> "Rene S." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > This may be true, however, I don't doubt that those cats were
> > miserable. With the calories you listed, the cat would only be allowed
> > a tiny of amount of dry food per day. My Tucker experienced this with
> > the r/d. He was only allowed 3/4 c. per day and was constantly hungry
> > and begging for food. When I switched to the canned, he had more volume
> > of food and was satiated, in stark contrast to the dry diet. I also did
> > NOT start out giving him one can per day. I gave him 1 1/2 cans per
> > day, as too drastic of a reduction in calories would have been unsafe
> > for him (he would have lost weight too quickly). I slowly cut back the
> > amount of canned as he lost weight, eventually holding steady at one
> > can when he reached the desired weight.
>
> This is exactly what I did. And, like you, I saw immediate benefits in my
> cat's coat, eyes, energy level. Anna thinks dry food is made mostly of meat.
> *shaking my head*
>
> Cats can subsist on dry, but they thrive on quality canned food because
> of the increased whole protein, moisture, and palatability. I fed my first
> cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they
> are doing really wonderfully.

Right on, cybercat! I immediately saw a difference after switching to
canned as well. Another huge benefit is that they will have an
increased water intake, which is very important for their urinary
health.

If you look at the ingredient list on dry foods, you'll usually see
ingredients like "by-product" or "meal" as the first few items. Not to
mention they add fillers like corn. If anyone wants to read an
enlightening book on the pet food industry, read "Foods Pets Die For."

cybercat
March 24th 06, 05:42 PM
"Miami Jones"
<[email protected] iiiiiiii.com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>
> > > we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time
> > > cept you,
> > > you were talkin bout the end of the world
> > >
> >
> > What's this from? :)
>
> i'ts a U2 song called -The End of The World
>
>

Hmm ... Either I missed that one or I missed this lyric.

Phil P.
March 24th 06, 11:50 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
> >> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
> >[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >> all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their
whole
> >> life?
> >
> >Wow. We have a new halfwit.
>
> So you don't know any 20 something year old cats that have eaten dry food
> their whole lives? I've known plenty.

Sure I know of many cats that ate dry food all their lives. They also had a
higher incidence of urolithiasis & urinary tract obstructions, feline
interstitial cystitis, IBD, and diabetes than cats fed canned food.

Phil P.
March 24th 06, 11:55 PM
"Anna via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is
> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate
> >that you have not educated yourself in cat nutrition and insist on
> >feeding a bowl of what amounts to cereal to your cats. This group
> >offers lots of opportunities for learning and it would be in your cat's
> >best interest for you to avail yourself of those opportunities and do
> >what's right for your cat, rather than passing along outdated (and
> >sometimes incorrect) information. You can begin your education here:
> >www.catinfo.org
> >www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html
> >www.catnutrition.org
>
> Excuse me, I have educated myself very much on cat nutrition


If you think so, you have a *lot* to learn. I feel the opposite- the more I
learn about feline nutrition the more I realize I don't know enough- and
I've been studying feline nutrition for many years.


but I prefer to
> listen to a person who actually went to university and studied animal
> nutrition rather than someone on a forum on the internet. You can begin
your
> education here:
>
> http://www.petdiets.com/


.....and you might want to try here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jacm2/id1.html

She's a DVM, PhD, Diplomate, ACVIM- will that suffice?

Then here:

http://rocquoone.com/diabetes_and_obesity.htm

When you finished with those, you might be ready for these:


http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#References


> Click on the cat and dog logo on the bottom and then click on more about
the
> founder Dr. Rebeccah Remillard. Tell me, what are your qualifications???


What are yours? The web? If you did, you wouldn't feel so strongly about
dry food.

If you've been reading the veterinary literature, you would see the current
swing to canned food. Many vets are beginning to realize that if canned
foods are being used to effectively manage several diseases, it might also
help prevent a few- urolithiasis, urinary tract obstruction, interstitial
cystitis, diabetes, and IBD- to name a few.



>
> By the way, dry food has MEAT in it; it is not cereal.


That's not entirely accurate. Most dry foods *are* predominately cereal.
Even though some dry foods list meat as the first ingredient, the combined
weight of all the plant material usually significantly outweighs the meat.
Thus, it would be fairly accurate to say dry foods are usually predominately
cereal. Its gotta be- it needs all that sugar-paste to hold the powder
together!

Also, cats fed dry food have a lower total water intake and higher USG than
cats fed canned food- even through cats fed dry food drink ~6 times more
water. The lower water intake and higher USG predisposes them to
urolithiasis and cyrstalluria. That's why the first line of defense and
treatment for cats with LUTD, FIC, IBD, CRF, diabetes is canned food.

Dry food also exacerbates or unmasks feline interstitial cystitis in cats
that are predisposed to it. There's actually a controlled clinical study
published in a peer-reviewed veterinary medical journal that supports that
statement.

Other than feeding Hill's m/d and Purina DM dry diets, many diabetic cats
have been weaned off insulin- or their insulin requirement was dramatically
reduced by simply switching them to canned food. Dry food can push a
subclinical diabetic cat into clinical disease.

As vets are becoming more educated about feline nutrition and feline
physiology, more and more are
recommending canned food. Don't forget, just a few years ago, cats were
treated as small dogs and dog and cat
foods were the same product- only the bags were labeled differently.

Be careful what you read, a lot of literature on feline nutrition is
outdated or based on outdated notions.