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Cheryl Sellner
March 22nd 06, 04:41 AM
I had an interesting conversation with the dermatologist. She gave
me the history of the use of cyclosporine. I was concerned about
the fact that Shamrock hasn't had vaccinations since his year 2;
he's 4 now, and he had his first set of shots, and his second, then
when it became clear that his allergies wouldn't be outgrown, he
hasn't had more shots. Rabies is good until later this year. Vet
dermatologist said I should get his rabies shot before starting
Atopica; not that his immune system can't recover from being
vaccinated, but just to give him a little chance to build up.
Atopica suppresses the immune system, or more accurately stops the
IGE antibody, but can supress the antibody that is supposed to
build from a vaccination? After talking to her, I'm not sure that
this treatment is going to help him any more than our other tries.
Novartis states [for dogs] that the dose is decreased from the
first month of daily, to the second month, every other day, then
finally, to two times per week. Vet dermatologist says they don't
have much success going down to 2x per week. So even halving the
initial dose is going to be a little expensive. Sad thing is that
the dogs it was initially approved for won't be helped due to cost
constraints. It's dosed by weight. Shamrock, at 11 lbs, will be
$80 first month, and $40 there-after, assuming halfing it again
will not be effective. As is the case in most of the derm.'s
experience.

Back to the history of the use of cyclosporine - a condition called
"dry eye" in animals was once treated surgically (if approved) by
transferring salivary glands from the mouth to the corner of the
eye. Created a very messy eye. Cyclosporine in varying doses is
used for anything from rheumatoid arthritis, to dry eye, to
prevention of rejection of organ transplants, to suppression of IgE
antibodies.

--
Cheryl

-L.
March 22nd 06, 06:41 AM
Cheryl Sellner wrote:
> I had an interesting conversation with the dermatologist. She gave
> me the history of the use of cyclosporine. I was concerned about
> the fact that Shamrock hasn't had vaccinations since his year 2;
> he's 4 now, and he had his first set of shots, and his second, then
> when it became clear that his allergies wouldn't be outgrown, he
> hasn't had more shots. Rabies is good until later this year. Vet
> dermatologist said I should get his rabies shot before starting
> Atopica; not that his immune system can't recover from being
> vaccinated, but just to give him a little chance to build up.
> Atopica suppresses the immune system, or more accurately stops the
> IGE antibody, but can supress the antibody that is supposed to
> build from a vaccination?

A couple of different types of antibodies are made to most vaccines,
but the most abundant is IgG, IIRC. Cyclosporine probably has some
cross-reactivity against IgG.

>After talking to her, I'm not sure that
> this treatment is going to help him any more than our other tries.
> Novartis states [for dogs] that the dose is decreased from the
> first month of daily, to the second month, every other day, then
> finally, to two times per week. Vet dermatologist says they don't
> have much success going down to 2x per week. So even halving the
> initial dose is going to be a little expensive. Sad thing is that
> the dogs it was initially approved for won't be helped due to cost
> constraints. It's dosed by weight. Shamrock, at 11 lbs, will be
> $80 first month, and $40 there-after, assuming halfing it again
> will not be effective. As is the case in most of the derm.'s
> experience.
>
> Back to the history of the use of cyclosporine - a condition called
> "dry eye" in animals was once treated surgically (if approved) by
> transferring salivary glands from the mouth to the corner of the
> eye. Created a very messy eye. Cyclosporine in varying doses is
> used for anything from rheumatoid arthritis, to dry eye, to
> prevention of rejection of organ transplants, to suppression of IgE
> antibodies.

Cyclosporine is also given to infertile women with a history of early
miscarriage, to prevent miscarriage. In humans, it's never give
without Prednisone, AFAIK.

Good luck and let us know how it works. I know it's been hailed as
quite useful in dogs with skin allergies.

-L.

MaryL
March 22nd 06, 10:21 AM
"Cheryl Sellner" > wrote in message
...
>I had an interesting conversation with the dermatologist. She gave
> me the history of the use of cyclosporine. I was concerned about
> the fact that Shamrock hasn't had vaccinations since his year 2;
> he's 4 now, and he had his first set of shots, and his second, then
> when it became clear that his allergies wouldn't be outgrown, he
> hasn't had more shots. Rabies is good until later this year. Vet
> dermatologist said I should get his rabies shot before starting
> Atopica; not that his immune system can't recover from being
> vaccinated, but just to give him a little chance to build up.
> Atopica suppresses the immune system, or more accurately stops the
> IGE antibody, but can supress the antibody that is supposed to
> build from a vaccination?
>
<snip>
> --
> Cheryl
Cheryl,

I obviously do not have any medical training, but I am interested in the
issue of unnecessary - and often dangerous - vaccinations. I was
particularly concerned when I read in your message that your vet recommends
vaccinating a *sick* cat. I know how much you love Shamrock, and I know you
have been giving him the very best care. So, I find that advice to be even
more alarming because he has a serious medical condition. I would like to
recommend that you read. "Shock to the System: The Facts About Animal
Vaccination, Pet Food and How to Keep Your Pet Healthy," by Catherine
O'Driscoll. The author talks about vaccines causing inflammatory responses
and autoimmune disease. The book can be ordered from amazon.com at this
link: http://tinyurl.com/mvovc. In addition, here is an online article by
the same author: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html.

I talked to my vet some time ago about discontinuing vaccinations, and he
was very amenable to it - and this is for two very *healthy* cats. Like
yours, they are indoor-only cats that do not come into contact with other
cats. I even asked him what he would do if these were his cats. He said that
under the same conditions, he would not vaccinate.

MaryL

PawsForThought
March 22nd 06, 07:12 PM
Cheryl Sellner wrote:
> Rabies is good until later this year. Vet
> dermatologist said I should get his rabies shot before starting
> Atopica; not that his immune system can't recover from being
> vaccinated, but just to give him a little chance to build up.

I'm surprised the vet is recommending vaccinations for a cat that is
not completely healthy. Can the vet write an exemption letter? If the
cat has already had rabies vaccines, many vets are now of the belief
that immunity can last 7 years and perhaps even for a lifetime.