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John Doe
June 4th 06, 03:10 PM
This is weird IMO. I'll try to make it concise.

About one month ago I noticed fleas again.

I gave up on flea collars and started using Advantage on the eighth
of last month.

I started checking their (my two cats) feces for worms segments,
haven't seen any.

For many months, I've been using plastic grocery store bags inside
of a hard plastic container to store used litter before taking it
out to the trash. I've noticed some moisture (condensed water) at
the top of the plastic bag sometimes when I open it. It isn't sealed
between uses, the plastic bag is just folded over.

Here's the weird part. Just today when I opened the plastic, using a
bright flashlight I could see dozens or more of live tapeworm
segments on the inner sides of the plastic bag.

I've been using Tidy Cats Scoop Small Spaces cat litter for I guess
at least six months.

Can tapeworms thrive/multiply outside of an animal? These babies
looked healthy. Obviously they weren't there all of a sudden.
Somehow they migrated to the sides of the plastic bag.

Conceivably a significant length of tapeworm got into a litter and
then came apart all at once?

I suppose it sounds incriminating, but I've been checking their
feces. And of course they will be treated for tapeworms very soon.
I'd also like to nuke the fleas so it doesn't happen again. I think
I've seen a couple of fleas since using the Advantage, so I'm
somewhat annoyed, with three months worth left.

Thank you.

Toni
June 4th 06, 03:17 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
>
> Here's the weird part. Just today when I opened the plastic, using a
> bright flashlight I could see dozens or more of live tapeworm
> segments on the inner sides of the plastic bag.
>



Are you sure you aren't seeing maggots or other larval creatures?
You'd need a microscope and a good textbook to be sure IMO.



--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm

Buddy
June 4th 06, 04:22 PM
I agree with Toni. It is more likely that they are maggots that have
accumulated in the bag of used litter.


Toni wrote:
> "John Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Here's the weird part. Just today when I opened the plastic, using a
> > bright flashlight I could see dozens or more of live tapeworm
> > segments on the inner sides of the plastic bag.
> >
>
>
>
> Are you sure you aren't seeing maggots or other larval creatures?
> You'd need a microscope and a good textbook to be sure IMO.
>
>
>
> --
> Toni
> http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm

cybercat
June 4th 06, 05:54 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> This is weird IMO. I'll try to make it concise.
>
> About one month ago I noticed fleas again.
>
> I gave up on flea collars and started using Advantage on the eighth
> of last month.
>
> I started checking their (my two cats) feces for worms segments,
> haven't seen any.
>
> For many months, I've been using plastic grocery store bags inside
> of a hard plastic container to store used litter before taking it
> out to the trash. I've noticed some moisture (condensed water) at
> the top of the plastic bag sometimes when I open it. It isn't sealed
> between uses, the plastic bag is just folded over.
>
> Here's the weird part. Just today when I opened the plastic, using a
> bright flashlight I could see dozens or more of live tapeworm
> segments on the inner sides of the plastic bag.
>
> I've been using Tidy Cats Scoop Small Spaces cat litter for I guess
> at least six months.
>
> Can tapeworms thrive/multiply outside of an animal? These babies
> looked healthy. Obviously they weren't there all of a sudden.
> Somehow they migrated to the sides of the plastic bag.
>
> Conceivably a significant length of tapeworm got into a litter and
> then came apart all at once?
>
> I suppose it sounds incriminating, but I've been checking their
> feces. And of course they will be treated for tapeworms very soon.
> I'd also like to nuke the fleas so it doesn't happen again. I think
> I've seen a couple of fleas since using the Advantage, so I'm
> somewhat annoyed, with three months worth left.
>
> Thank you.
>

Regardless, you are keeping the poop in the house for wayyy
too long, man. Ugh.



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Rhonda
June 4th 06, 06:06 PM
I don't think tapeworm egg sacks last very long after coming out of the
pet. The things we see, the "rice," are not babies but wiggling sacks
containing eggs. The sack dies, the eggs are released, fleas eat the
eggs, our pets eat the fleas and get tapeworms.

I think what you saw were maggots. Sounds like it's time to rethink the
cat litter plan...

Rhonda

John Doe wrote:

>
> Can tapeworms thrive/multiply outside of an animal? These babies
> looked healthy. Obviously they weren't there all of a sudden.
> Somehow they migrated to the sides of the plastic bag.

John Doe
June 4th 06, 11:18 PM
Rhonda > wrote:

>
> I don't think tapeworm egg sacks last very long after coming out
> of the pet. The things we see, the "rice," are not babies but
> wiggling sacks containing eggs.

I thought those were a tapeworm replica that breaks off and grows
into a whole tapeworm. Thanks for the clarification.

>
> The sack dies, the eggs are released, fleas eat the
> eggs, our pets eat the fleas and get tapeworms.
>
> I think what you saw were maggots.

Assuming they were maggots, is there a threat to my cats? I suppose
they live on the outside unlike tapeworms. Thank you.






>
>
>
> Rhonda
>
> John Doe wrote:
>
>>
>> Can tapeworms thrive/multiply outside of an animal? These babies
>> looked healthy. Obviously they weren't there all of a sudden.
>> Somehow they migrated to the sides of the plastic bag.
>
>

John Doe
June 4th 06, 11:21 PM
I wrote:

>
> ... is there a threat to my cats?

To be clear, I mean any lingering threat from the single instance. Of
course it won't happen again.

cybercat
June 4th 06, 11:42 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> I wrote:
>
> >
> > ... is there a threat to my cats?
>
> To be clear, I mean any lingering threat from the single instance. Of
> course it won't happen again.

I cannot imagine there would be any threat. I would disinfect the area
really well, though, just in case. I don't know about their larvae (maggots)
but flies sure do cause disease.



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Rhonda
June 5th 06, 01:10 AM
John Doe wrote:

> I wrote:
>
>
>>... is there a threat to my cats?
>>
>
> To be clear, I mean any lingering threat from the single instance. Of
> course it won't happen again.


I haven't heard of it being a problem with cats -- it is a huge problem
with rabbits. If their rear is wet or dirty and the maggots hatch there,
they burrow into the skin and actually kill rabbits.

If the maggots were not on the cat, I think you're okay.

Rhonda

Buddy
June 5th 06, 01:35 AM
I have heard of the exact same thing happening to cats. But on their
neck. Gross.


Rhonda wrote:
> John Doe wrote:
>
> > I wrote:
> >
> >
> >>... is there a threat to my cats?
> >>
> >
> > To be clear, I mean any lingering threat from the single instance. Of
> > course it won't happen again.
>
>
> I haven't heard of it being a problem with cats -- it is a huge problem
> with rabbits. If their rear is wet or dirty and the maggots hatch there,
> they burrow into the skin and actually kill rabbits.
>
> If the maggots were not on the cat, I think you're okay.
>
> Rhonda

Candace
June 5th 06, 02:04 AM
John Doe wrote:

>
> For many months, I've been using plastic grocery store bags inside
> of a hard plastic container to store used litter before taking it
> out to the trash. I've noticed some moisture (condensed water) at
> the top of the plastic bag sometimes when I open it. It isn't sealed
> between uses, the plastic bag is just folded over.

Not being the world's best housekeeper myself, perhaps I shouldn't
criticize someone else's habits, but, ICK!, why would there be a delay
in taking used litter to the trash? How hard can it be? Even if you
live in an apartment, which I used to while having cats, it isn't that
hard to go down and toss it in the dumpster. Urg, and it sounds like
you keep adding used litter for awhile before you get rid of it. Bite
the bullet and toss it immediately. Whether it's maggots, tapeworms,
or who knows what, it's gross.

Candace

John Doe
June 5th 06, 03:45 AM
"Candace" <maccandace aol.com> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>
>>
>> For many months, I've been using plastic grocery store bags
>> inside of a hard plastic container to store used litter before
>> taking it out to the trash. I've noticed some moisture (condensed
>> water) at the top of the plastic bag sometimes when I open it. It
>> isn't sealed between uses, the plastic bag is just folded over.
>
> Not being the world's best housekeeper myself, perhaps I shouldn't
> criticize someone else's habits, but, ICK!,

But in fact, you don't know my habits. They're litter box area is so
clean, you would eat off of it.

>
> why would there be a delay
> in taking used litter to the trash? How hard can it be? Even if
> you live in an apartment, which I used to while having cats, it
> isn't that hard to go down and toss it in the dumpster. Urg, and
> it sounds like you keep adding used litter for awhile before you
> get rid of it. Bite the bullet and toss it immediately.

You must be trolling.

What do you put each scooping in when you take it out to the trash?
I would run out of bags quickly that way.

Or do you flush it down the toilet?

>
> Whether it's maggots, tapeworms, or who knows what,

It's maggots. The closest I've been to maggots like that is watching
the refrigerator chicken leg seen in Poltergeist.

>
> it's gross.

No kidding. Inspecting a cats **** is gross too, but it's something
grown-ups do to provide for the cat's health (you hold your nose and
do it).

My best guess is that the larva/eggs/whatever were in the grocery
bag I brought from Wal-Mart or Target.

I haven't seen a fly inside for weeks, except for one or two fruit
flies since I'm feeding Kiki wet food lately.




>
>
>
> Candace
>
>
>
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> From: "Candace" <maccandace aol.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Tapeworms thriving in used litter?!
> Date: 4 Jun 2006 18:04:41 -0700
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William Hamblen
June 5th 06, 04:34 AM
On 4 Jun 2006 17:35:36 -0700, "Buddy" > wrote:

>I have heard of the exact same thing happening to cats. But on their
>neck.

It's called a "wolf" and is like the botfly or screwfly that infects
cattle. The fly lays an egg under the skin and the larva develops
into a fly inside the wound. The cure is to make a small incision and
take out the larva with a small pair of forceps. The wound is treated
like any other infected wound.

Candace
June 5th 06, 04:48 AM
John Doe wrote:

> But in fact, you don't know my habits. They're litter box area is so
> clean, you would eat off of it.

No, I wouldn't. My mom always used to say her floors were clean enough
to eat off of but I didn't feel like doing that either.

> You must be trolling.

'Fraid not.

> What do you put each scooping in when you take it out to the trash?
> I would run out of bags quickly that way.
>
> Or do you flush it down the toilet?

No, I put it in grocery bags and immediately dump it in the trash.
Maybe I shop more than you; I seem to have a gazillion of those plastic
bags, they multiply like crazy, so running out of them isn't likely.

> No kidding. Inspecting a cats **** is gross too, but it's something
> grown-ups do to provide for the cat's health (you hold your nose and
> do it).

I sure don't do it very often. A cursory glance generally suffices to
make sure it looks "normal." More extensive investigation is generally
unnecessary unless the kitty has a health concern.

Candace

-L.
June 5th 06, 07:55 AM
John Doe wrote:
> > Not being the world's best housekeeper myself, perhaps I shouldn't
> > criticize someone else's habits, but, ICK!,
>
> But in fact, you don't know my habits. They're litter box area is so
> clean, you would eat off of it.

Well, maggots in the litter suggests things aren't as clean as they
could be, or at least you aren't tossing the litter as quickly as you
should.

>
> What do you put each scooping in when you take it out to the trash?
> I would run out of bags quickly that way.

Plastic grocery bags, large ziplocs or small plastic shopping bags.
You can buy small plastic bags if you do not have enough
previously-used ones around to remove the waste daily. Buying them
isn't the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but I'd do what I
had to not to get maggots. I scoop twice daily and reuse grocery bags,
which we have a ton of.

>
> Or do you flush it down the toilet?

Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and septic
system.

-L.

John Doe
June 5th 06, 08:39 AM
"-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com> wrote:

>
> Well, maggots in the litter suggests things aren't as clean as
> they could be, or at least you aren't tossing the litter as
> quickly as you should.

It might suggest this or that to you, but you really don't know. My
best guess is that the maggots could have originated from the
grocery bag.

Whatever. I was only concerned about my cats having serious
tapeworms without me knowing. Everything is just fine here now.

>
> Buying them
> isn't the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but I'd do
> what I had to not to get maggots.

Hindsight is easy.

Are you familiar with maggots and how long they take to populate
around your things?

>
> Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and
> septic system.

I think some litters are flushable.






>
> -L.
>
>
>
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> From: "-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Tapeworms thriving in used litter?!
> Date: 4 Jun 2006 23:55:01 -0700
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>
>

-L.
June 5th 06, 09:00 AM
John Doe wrote:
> "-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, maggots in the litter suggests things aren't as clean as
> > they could be, or at least you aren't tossing the litter as
> > quickly as you should.
>
> It might suggest this or that to you, but you really don't know. My
> best guess is that the maggots could have originated from the
> grocery bag.

Doubtful. Flies (blowflies and houseflies) seek food for their larvae
before depositing the eggs. Unless there was rotting flesh or feces in
the bag, it is not likely they would lay eggs in it.

>
> Whatever. I was only concerned about my cats having serious
> tapeworms without me knowing. Everything is just fine here now.

That's good.

>
> >
> > Buying them
> > isn't the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but I'd do
> > what I had to not to get maggots.
>
> Hindsight is easy.
>
> Are you familiar with maggots and how long they take to populate
> around your things?

Depends on what species of fly. Housefly larvae hatch from eggs in
less than 24 hours after the eggs are laid. So unless that bag was put
in there less than 24 hours before you saw maggots, the flies laid the
eggs in the litter or on the feces. Not uncommon - considering **** is
a prime depository for fles to lay their eggs.

>
> >
> > Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and
> > septic system.
>
> I think some litters are flushable.

Most plumbers will tell you to not flush "flushable" cat litters. They
cause problems.
-L.

John Doe
June 5th 06, 09:37 AM
"-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> "-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Well, maggots in the litter suggests things aren't as clean as
>> > they could be, or at least you aren't tossing the litter as
>> > quickly as you should.
>>
>> It might suggest this or that to you, but you really don't know.
>> My best guess is that the maggots could have originated from the
>> grocery bag.
>
> Doubtful.

OK dearest. Maybe it was that fly I grabbed off of the screen and
put outside about one week ago.

>
> Flies (blowflies and houseflies) seek food for their larvae
> before depositing the eggs. Unless there was rotting flesh or
> feces in the bag, it is not likely they would lay eggs in it.

What about food? Are you calling hamburger meat "flesh"?

>> >
>> > Buying them
>> > isn't the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but I'd do
>> > what I had to not to get maggots.
>>
>> Hindsight is easy.
>>
>> Are you familiar with maggots and how long they take to populate
>> around your things?
>
> Depends on what species of fly.

How much personal experience do you have with maggots?

>> >
>> > Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and
>> > septic system.
>>
>> I think some litters are flushable.
>
> Most plumbers will tell you to not flush "flushable" cat litters.
> They cause problems.

Really?





>
>
> -L.
>
>
>
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> From: "-L." <gentleboa peacemail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Tapeworms thriving in used litter?!
> Date: 5 Jun 2006 01:00:57 -0700
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Toni
June 5th 06, 10:36 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
>
> You must be trolling.
>
> What do you put each scooping in when you take it out to the trash?
> I would run out of bags quickly that way.
>



I use Hefty brand "Scrap Bags" available in the grocery store.They are just
the right size and are very easy to twist and tightly seal before tossing
into the trash, so even though my garbage is only picked up twice each week
the garbage can in the garage can doesn't smell.

I use two bags each day- one for each scooping. They come in a box of 50 for
around $3, so I use about $3.25's worth of bags a month. Very much worth it
for an issue as smelly as cat poo.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm

June 5th 06, 03:02 PM
"-L." > wrote:

>Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and septic
>system.

Nothing wrong with flushing the wheat or corn based flushables into a
city system.
-mhd

June 5th 06, 03:04 PM
"-L." > wrote:

>Most plumbers will tell you to not flush "flushable" cat litters. They
>cause problems.

That's rubbish says my licensed plumber neighbor.

-mhd

cybercat
June 5th 06, 03:32 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "-L." > wrote:
>
> >Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and septic
> >system.
>
> Nothing wrong with flushing the wheat or corn based flushables into a
> city system.

What about that Arm and Hammer flushable? And there are other, cheap
litters that say on the container, "certified flushable?"



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cybercat
June 5th 06, 03:37 PM
"John Doe" > wrote

> What about food? Are you calling hamburger meat "flesh"?

Hamburger meat is flesh.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

cybercat
June 5th 06, 03:38 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "-L." > wrote:
>
> >Most plumbers will tell you to not flush "flushable" cat litters. They
> >cause problems.
>
> That's rubbish says my licensed plumber neighbor.
>

Might be different for septic systems and city sewerage systems.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

June 5th 06, 04:28 PM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>> Nothing wrong with flushing the wheat or corn based flushables into a
>> city system.
>
>What about that Arm and Hammer flushable? And there are other, cheap
>litters that say on the container, "certified flushable?"

What's it made of? I was referring to any biodegradable products.

-mhd

-L.
June 5th 06, 04:54 PM
cybercat wrote:
>
> What about that Arm and Hammer flushable? And there are other, cheap
> litters that say on the container, "certified flushable?"

Tortally depends on your system of pipes. My brother's friend has been
a plumber and pipefitter for god, I dunno - maybe 35 years. He said he
wouldn't risk it without having looked at the pipe system. The litters
get caught in the junctions and form hard lumps with toilet paper and
components of poop (sparing details). Over time it will block the
pipes. Plus some older homes have inadequate pipes for hauling solid
wastes - add in cat litter, and you are asking for blockages.

-L.

-L.
June 5th 06, 05:04 PM
John Doe wrote:
>
> What about food? Are you calling hamburger meat "flesh"?

Yes. It is flesh. From American Heritage:

" FLESH: NOUN
1. The soft tissue of the body of a vertebrate, covering the
bones and consisting mainly of skeletal muscle and fat."

>
> >> >
> >> > Buying them
> >> > isn't the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but I'd do
> >> > what I had to not to get maggots.
> >>
> >> Hindsight is easy.
> >>
> >> Are you familiar with maggots and how long they take to populate
> >> around your things?
> >
> > Depends on what species of fly.
>
> How much personal experience do you have with maggots?

I worked as a researcher (plant molecular biologist) for 15 years. I
know a bit about insects; one of my major projects involved insect
control proteins similar to Ivermectin.


>
> >> >
> >> > Do not flush cat litter unless you want to ruin your pipes and
> >> > septic system.
> >>
> >> I think some litters are flushable.
> >
> > Most plumbers will tell you to not flush "flushable" cat litters.
> > They cause problems.
>
> Really?

Yes. See my reply to cybercat. I wouldn't risk it.

-L.

June 5th 06, 06:08 PM
"-L." > wrote:

>
>cybercat wrote:
>>
>> What about that Arm and Hammer flushable? And there are other, cheap
>> litters that say on the container, "certified flushable?"
>
>Tortally depends on your system of pipes. My brother's friend has been
>a plumber and pipefitter for god, I dunno - maybe 35 years. He said he
>wouldn't risk it without having looked at the pipe system. The litters
>get caught in the junctions and form hard lumps with toilet paper and
>components of poop (sparing details). Over time it will block the
>pipes. Plus some older homes have inadequate pipes for hauling solid
>wastes - add in cat litter, and you are asking for blockages.
>
>-L.


If you are talking about a marginal system then I agree that you may
want to rethink dumping the litter in the bowl. However scooping cat
turds and flushing them should not cause any problems.

-mhd

cybercat
June 5th 06, 07:28 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "-L." > wrote:
>
> >
> >cybercat wrote:
> >>
> >> What about that Arm and Hammer flushable? And there are other, cheap
> >> litters that say on the container, "certified flushable?"
> >
> >Tortally depends on your system of pipes. My brother's friend has been
> >a plumber and pipefitter for god, I dunno - maybe 35 years. He said he
> >wouldn't risk it without having looked at the pipe system. The litters
> >get caught in the junctions and form hard lumps with toilet paper and
> >components of poop (sparing details). Over time it will block the
> >pipes. Plus some older homes have inadequate pipes for hauling solid
> >wastes - add in cat litter, and you are asking for blockages.
> >
> >-L.
>
>
> If you are talking about a marginal system then I agree that you may
> want to rethink dumping the litter in the bowl. However scooping cat
> turds and flushing them should not cause any problems.
>
> -mhd

And in any case, we have been doing this with the Arm and Hammer
stuff AND whatever that other brand is that says "certified flushable"
(can't you just see the guy in the lab coat with the clip board proclaiming
"Flushable! NOT Flushable!") for a couple of years, so our system
must be fine. So far, at least.

I would think the companies that make this stuff might be open to
suits if flushing these litters were harmful to the average system.
(People surely sue over less ...)



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-L.
June 6th 06, 03:15 AM
cybercat wrote:
>
> And in any case, we have been doing this with the Arm and Hammer
> stuff AND whatever that other brand is that says "certified flushable"
> (can't you just see the guy in the lab coat with the clip board proclaiming
> "Flushable! NOT Flushable!") for a couple of years, so our system
> must be fine. So far, at least.
>
> I would think the companies that make this stuff might be open to
> suits if flushing these litters were harmful to the average system.
> (People surely sue over less ...)

The problem is that you will never prove that your plumbing problems
are because of the litter. All a company has to do is show their
research studies that "prove" it is harmless, and blame it on your
over-use of toilet paper, mega-pooping habits, hair clogs, or whatever.
That's the big-business way, doncha know...

-L.

cybercat
June 6th 06, 03:22 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> cybercat wrote:
> >
> > And in any case, we have been doing this with the Arm and Hammer
> > stuff AND whatever that other brand is that says "certified flushable"
> > (can't you just see the guy in the lab coat with the clip board
proclaiming
> > "Flushable! NOT Flushable!") for a couple of years, so our system
> > must be fine. So far, at least.
> >
> > I would think the companies that make this stuff might be open to
> > suits if flushing these litters were harmful to the average system.
> > (People surely sue over less ...)
>
> The problem is that you will never prove that your plumbing problems
> are because of the litter. All a company has to do is show their
> research studies that "prove" it is harmless, and blame it on your
> over-use of toilet paper, mega-pooping habits, hair clogs, or whatever.
> That's the big-business way, doncha know...
>

aha. I hadn't thought of that, lol!



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