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MaryL
June 12th 06, 06:16 AM
There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental health.
Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food does
not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr

MaryL

PawsForThought
June 12th 06, 04:40 PM
MaryL wrote:
> There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
> concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental health.
> Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food does
> not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
>
> MaryL

I actually posted this yesterday but it's in the Main Coon thread so
hopefully it will attract more attention here. Great article!

Lauren

MaryL
June 12th 06, 04:48 PM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> MaryL wrote:
>> There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
>> concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental
>> health.
>> Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food
>> does
>> not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
>>
>> MaryL
>
> I actually posted this yesterday but it's in the Main Coon thread so
> hopefully it will attract more attention here. Great article!
>
> Lauren
>

Sorry...the Maine Coon thread has grown so long that I missed your post. As
you said, it's a great article, so I guess it doesn't hurt to have a
duplicate posted.

Thanks,
MaryL

Kiran
June 12th 06, 05:01 PM
MaryL -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

: Sorry...the Maine Coon thread has grown so long that I missed your post. As
: you said, it's a great article, so I guess it doesn't hurt to have a
: duplicate posted.

Not only doesn't hurt, this is almost required. This myth is kibble
cleaning their teeth is so widespread that people like us would have
keep posting and reposting such articles before we make any dent.

PawsForThought
June 12th 06, 10:31 PM
MaryL wrote:
Sorry...the Maine Coon thread has grown so long that I missed your
post. As
> you said, it's a great article, so I guess it doesn't hurt to have a
> duplicate posted.
>
> Thanks,
> MaryL

No apologies necessary, Mary :) I'm glad you posted it separately
because that thread is too long anyway.

Lauren

PawsForThought
June 12th 06, 10:33 PM
Kiran wrote:
> MaryL -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
> : Sorry...the Maine Coon thread has grown so long that I missed your post. As
> : you said, it's a great article, so I guess it doesn't hurt to have a
> : duplicate posted.
>
> Not only doesn't hurt, this is almost required. This myth is kibble
> cleaning their teeth is so widespread that people like us would have
> keep posting and reposting such articles before we make any dent.

Absolutely. It doesn't help that uneducated vets keep promoting kibble
to their clients :(

Phil P.
June 14th 06, 04:40 AM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
> concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental
health.
> Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food
does
> not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
>
> MaryL

Its nice to see vets starting to wake up to something I've been harping
about for >20 years.

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall

I'm thoroughly convinced dry food is probably the leading cause of CRF in
cats. The lower water intake and all that acid *has* to negatively affect
the kidneys. Of course no pet food company will ever fund a study to prove
it.

Thanks for posting the link!

Phil

P No Gree G O
June 14th 06, 01:34 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
>>concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental
>
> health.
>
>>Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food
>
> does
>
>>not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
>>
>>MaryL
>
>
> Its nice to see vets starting to wake up to something I've been harping
> about for >20 years.
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
>
> I'm thoroughly convinced dry food is probably the leading cause of CRF in
> cats. The lower water intake and all that acid *has* to negatively affect
> the kidneys. Of course no pet food company will ever fund a study to prove
> it.
>
> Thanks for posting the link!
>
> Phil
>
>

Absolutes in any arena are never a good idea, IMO.

My vet says a balance of wet and dry food is good and recommended I cut
the wet food down to 1/2 can per day per cat (Friskies Prime Fillets)
and supplement with Science Diet Oral Care since one of my boys had a
mild case of ginigvitis.

After using the SD for a few months (I leave a bowl of the chow out at
all times for them to nibble from), both cats' teeth were pearly white
and their breath had virtually no smell to it. They are both very
healthy, happy 5 yr olds, and have no litter box issues.

kurupt
June 14th 06, 02:21 PM
P No Gree G O wrote:

> Absolutes in any arena are never a good idea, IMO.

and you're absolutely sure about that?

> My vet says a balance of wet and dry food is good and recommended I cut
> the wet food down to 1/2 can per day per cat (Friskies Prime Fillets)
> and supplement with Science Diet Oral Care since one of my boys had a
> mild case of ginigvitis.

maybe a semi crunchy food is better

If food is real dry, it just shatters upon contact - no tooth
surface contact, especially near the gumline.

If food is crunchewy, a tooth would sink in up to the gumline allowing
maximum tooth contact.

I think pet food makers should consider a hybrid wet/dry food product

dry enough to come in a bag, wet enough to do away with can food

healthy enough for a lion, but made for a small house cat

as humans, we don't look to food only to keep our teeth clean, we have
to brush, so I think the ultimate cat tooth care will include a daily
brushing a flossing

Phil P used the term shatter some time ago on here, on this same
topic, didn't want him to think someone was stealing his coinage

June 15th 06, 10:24 AM
kurupt wrote:

>
> I think pet food makers should consider a hybrid wet/dry food product
> dry enough to come in a bag, wet enough to do away with can food
> healthy enough for a lion, but made for a small house cat
>

I don't think it would be possible to make something like that.

It's not that hard to serve dry food AND wet food. I have dry food
available 24/7, and I serve canned food twice a day. There's some waste
since they don't finish the canned food, but it's no biggie. It's worth
it to me.

Kiran
June 15th 06, 06:10 PM
"> wrote:

: It's not that hard to serve dry food AND wet food. I have dry food
: available 24/7, and I serve canned food twice a day. There's some
: waste since they don't finish the canned food, but it's no biggie...

Try removing dry food for about an hour when you serve canned. They can
still have dry available "22/7". I am not a big fan of free feeding but
if your cats don't overeat, I suppose it is ok.

Phil P.
June 16th 06, 08:02 AM
"P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. wrote:
>
> > "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> >
> >>There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
> >>concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental
> >
> > health.
> >
> >>Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food
> >
> > does
> >
> >>not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
> >>
> >>MaryL
> >
> >
> > Its nice to see vets starting to wake up to something I've been harping
> > about for >20 years.
> >
> >
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
> >
> > I'm thoroughly convinced dry food is probably the leading cause of CRF
in
> > cats. The lower water intake and all that acid *has* to negatively
affect
> > the kidneys. Of course no pet food company will ever fund a study to
prove
> > it.
> >
> > Thanks for posting the link!
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
>
> Absolutes in any arena are never a good idea, IMO.


Are you absolutely sure about that?

>
> My vet says a balance of wet and dry food is good and recommended I cut
> the wet food down to 1/2 can per day per cat (Friskies Prime Fillets)
> and supplement with Science Diet Oral Care since one of my boys had a
> mild case of ginigvitis.

Oral Care is one of the few (3) dry foods that actually does have some small
dental benefit. That's because the nuggets are large and not brittle and
don't shatter when the cat bites into them. The teeth can sink in before
the nuggets break, so there is some degree of abrasion. However, the dental
benefit doesn't offset the negative effects of feeding dry food to cats.

If you have a good relationship with your cats and they trust you, you can
easily clean their teeth by wrapping a gauze sponge around your finger and
dipping in in saline or home-made slightly salty water or tuna water or even
chicken broth.

June 16th 06, 10:09 AM
Kiran wrote:
> "> wrote:
>
> : It's not that hard to serve dry food AND wet food. I have dry food
> : available 24/7, and I serve canned food twice a day. There's some
> : waste since they don't finish the canned food, but it's no biggie...
>
> Try removing dry food for about an hour when you serve canned. They can
> still have dry available "22/7". I am not a big fan of free feeding but
> if your cats don't overeat, I suppose it is ok.

We've been free feeding the cats for over 25 years with no problem.

Jay Jay gained a little weight when I first got him, but after
switching to the Maine Coon food with larger kibbles, he slowed down.

Frankly, I haven't found any canned food that has glucosamine in it,
and I find it really hard to get a known amount into canned food by
mixing it.

I have seen major improvements by putting my cats on Royal Canin's
food, so I really don't want to go completely canned food. I figure
they get the best of each this way.

dgk
June 16th 06, 01:10 PM
On 15 Jun 2006 02:24:42 -0700, "
> wrote:

>
>kurupt wrote:
>
>>
>> I think pet food makers should consider a hybrid wet/dry food product
>> dry enough to come in a bag, wet enough to do away with can food
>> healthy enough for a lion, but made for a small house cat
>>
>
>I don't think it would be possible to make something like that.
>
>It's not that hard to serve dry food AND wet food. I have dry food
>available 24/7, and I serve canned food twice a day. There's some waste
>since they don't finish the canned food, but it's no biggie. It's worth
>it to me.

That's what I do. And it's sort of important to have the boys
acclimated to dry food because sometimes I go away and a neighbor or
cat sitter will come in once a day and give them wet food. I can't ask
them to come in twice. This way the boys can always eat a bit more of
the dry so they aren't hungry.

kurupt
June 16th 06, 01:33 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> Oral Care is one of the few (3) dry foods that actually does have some small
> dental benefit. That's because the nuggets are large and not brittle and
> don't shatter when the cat bites into them. The teeth can sink in before
> the nuggets break, so there is some degree of abrasion. However, the dental
> benefit doesn't offset the negative effects of feeding dry food to cats.

don't be stealin my material Phil

P No Gree G O
June 16th 06, 03:25 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Phil P. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>>There have been several of threads recently (on several newsgroups)
>>>>concerning the question of whether dry cat food is needed for dental
>>>
>>>health.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Here is an article written by a veterinarian that explains why cat food
>>>
>>>does
>>>
>>>
>>>>not "clean" a cat's teeth: http://tinyurl.com/e7ewr
>>>>
>>>>MaryL
>>>
>>>
>>>Its nice to see vets starting to wake up to something I've been harping
>>>about for >20 years.
>>>
>>>
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
>
>>>I'm thoroughly convinced dry food is probably the leading cause of CRF
>
> in
>
>>>cats. The lower water intake and all that acid *has* to negatively
>
> affect
>
>>>the kidneys. Of course no pet food company will ever fund a study to
>
> prove
>
>>>it.
>>>
>>>Thanks for posting the link!
>>>
>>>Phil
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Absolutes in any arena are never a good idea, IMO.
>
>
>
> Are you absolutely sure about that?

Never say never ;-)
>
>
>>My vet says a balance of wet and dry food is good and recommended I cut
>>the wet food down to 1/2 can per day per cat (Friskies Prime Fillets)
>>and supplement with Science Diet Oral Care since one of my boys had a
>>mild case of ginigvitis.
>
>
> Oral Care is one of the few (3) dry foods that actually does have some small
> dental benefit. That's because the nuggets are large and not brittle and
> don't shatter when the cat bites into them. The teeth can sink in before
> the nuggets break, so there is some degree of abrasion. However, the dental
> benefit doesn't offset the negative effects of feeding dry food to cats.
>
> If you have a good relationship with your cats and they trust you, you can
> easily clean their teeth by wrapping a gauze sponge around your finger and
> dipping in in saline or home-made slightly salty water or tuna water or even
> chicken broth.

Thanks for the tip. they really hate the
toothbrush idea so I'll try the gauze for a
2-pronged effort!



>
>

Phil P.
June 16th 06, 04:11 PM
"P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. wrote:
> > "P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
> > ...

> > If you have a good relationship with your cats and they trust you, you
can
> > easily clean their teeth by wrapping a gauze sponge around your finger
and
> > dipping in in saline or home-made slightly salty water or tuna water or
even
> > chicken broth.
>
> Thanks for the tip. they really hate the
> toothbrush idea so I'll try the gauze for a
> 2-pronged effort!

If your nervous about sticking your finger in your cat's mouth, you can try
using a Q-Tip dipped in saline or you can wrap a gauze sponge around a
finger splint (http://www.supports4u.com/finger.htm). Gotta be careful
around cat's teeth- they can penetrate bone and cause osteomyelitis (a bone
infection).

Good luck,

Phil

P No Gree G O
June 16th 06, 04:22 PM
Phil P. wrote:

> "P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Phil P. wrote:
>>
>>>"P No Gree G O" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>>If you have a good relationship with your cats and they trust you, you
>
> can
>
>>>easily clean their teeth by wrapping a gauze sponge around your finger
>
> and
>
>>>dipping in in saline or home-made slightly salty water or tuna water or
>
> even
>
>>>chicken broth.
>>
>>Thanks for the tip. they really hate the
>>toothbrush idea so I'll try the gauze for a
>>2-pronged effort!
>
>
> If your nervous about sticking your finger in your cat's mouth, you can try
> using a Q-Tip dipped in saline or you can wrap a gauze sponge around a
> finger splint (http://www.supports4u.com/finger.htm). Gotta be careful
> around cat's teeth- they can penetrate bone and cause osteomyelitis (a bone
> infection).
>
> Good luck,
>
> Phil
>
>
No worries - my boys are as gentle as can be and routinely let me
check their teeth and gums with my bare fingers. They just hate the
texture of the toothbrush. Knock wood, in their 5 years they have
never snapped or swiped at anyone, even the vet. The most I've seen is
a hiss now and then, and never at me :-)

Phil P.
June 19th 06, 01:19 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:11:18 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:

> Cat Five just goes bonkers for the CET Fish Flavored chews. Her vet
> introduced them to us to keep her teeth clean, one chew per day, and in
the
> 2 years we've had her she hasn't needed a cleaning at her check-ups.

The CET chews work well because they're large and soft which allows the
teeth to sink in all the way to the gumline- where all the problems begin.
A CET a-day provides more dental benefit than an all dry food diet.

The stuff about their "dual enzyme system" is just an advertising gimmick
since there isn't any science to back it up.

Phil

cybercat
June 19th 06, 04:07 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:11:18 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:
>
> > Cat Five just goes bonkers for the CET Fish Flavored chews. Her vet
> > introduced them to us to keep her teeth clean, one chew per day, and in
> the
> > 2 years we've had her she hasn't needed a cleaning at her check-ups.
>
> The CET chews work well because they're large and soft which allows the
> teeth to sink in all the way to the gumline- where all the problems begin.
> A CET a-day provides more dental benefit than an all dry food diet.
>
> The stuff about their "dual enzyme system" is just an advertising gimmick
> since there isn't any science to back it up.
>
> Phil
>
>

They make the chicken-flavored toothpaste I use for my cats ...



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BudGan61
July 31st 06, 10:16 PM
D. wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>
>>The CET chews work well because they're large and soft which allows the
>>teeth to sink in all the way to the gumline- where all the problems begin.
>>A CET a-day provides more dental benefit than an all dry food diet.
>
>
> I'm glad to hear you say that -- I started Hodge on them a month or so
> ago. When he boarded last weekend, they said his teeth still looked good
> from the cleaning. Fingers crossed.


FYI... Science Diet Oral Care does the same thing.