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View Full Version : Phil and all concerned - Questions about Hills Science Diet ingredients


July 27th 06, 10:18 PM
Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
by-products followed by corn, etc.

Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
ingredients?

For example - their sensitive skin product:

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%
3Eprd_id=845524441760711&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037387&CONTENT%
3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673427816&bmUID=1154034219970

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole
Grain Corn, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric
acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium
Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine,
vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E
Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine
Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement,
Iodized Salt, Taurine, Fish Oil, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide,
Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite),
preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, L-
Tryptophan, Rosemary Extract.


Although there's no wheat, I thought that corn was also a no-no for cats
with skin problems - and what's with the by-products?




Even their Nature's Best® with Real Chicken Adult product has chicken
meal listed before chicken.

How about the Advanced Protection® Senior 7+! There's some nice vitamins
in there, but those first few ingredients!

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Whole
Grain Corn, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric
acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor,
Powdered Cellulose, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-
Methionine, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt,
Natural Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Taurine, vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement,
Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate
(source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin,
Vitamin B12 Supplement, ), L-Cysteine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc
Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite),
Potassium Citrate, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and
Citric Acid, Magnesium Oxide, L-Arginine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary
Extract.



I just took a look at their z/d and d/d prescription lines (both wet and
dry) and they appear to be very promising in ingredients. What a pity
that these foods aren't sold over the counter (and given away in samples
to see if cats like them).

-L.
July 27th 06, 10:23 PM
wrote:
> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>
> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
> ingredients?

No. Hill's is peddaled by vets because they get benefits for doing so.
It's **** food - always has been, always will be.

-L.

Wayne Mitchell
July 28th 06, 04:24 AM
wrote:

>Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
>Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
>by-products followed by corn, etc.

So let's see....We have a pet food company which has been
researching feline nutritional needs for more years than most of
us have been living. Their line is fairly high-priced, so
probably they aren't using inferior ingredients to cut corners
and sell the product cheaply. We seem to have reliable evidence
that many thousands of cats have lived well into old age without
serious health problems while being fed nothing else but this
line of cat foods. Is it just remotely possible that these
people know more about how to make a quality cat food than we
do?

The fact is that neither "by-products" nor "[meat] meal" nor
even the inclusion of (horrors!) grains, is any indication of
inferior cat nutrition. When you read about how bad all these
things are in cat foods, chalk it all up to faddism, urban myths
and conspiracy theorists.
--

Wayne M.

July 28th 06, 06:17 AM
wrote:
> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>
> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
> ingredients?
>
> Ingredients
> Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole
> Grain Corn, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric
> acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium
> Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine,
> vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E
> Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium
> Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine
> Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement,
> Iodized Salt, Taurine, Fish Oil, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide,
> Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite),
> preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, L-
> Tryptophan, Rosemary Extract.

> Although there's no wheat, I thought that corn was also a no-no for cats
> with skin problems - and what's with the by-products?
>
> I just took a look at their z/d and d/d prescription lines (both wet and
> dry) and they appear to be very promising in ingredients. What a pity
> that these foods aren't sold over the counter (and given away in samples
> to see if cats like them).

First of all Science Diet food is very high quality food. There are
high levels vitamins and nutrients that are found in the "by-products"
of meat and not in other cuts of meat. They are not feeding feet or
anything like that.

Second of all, many of the other food brands are not actually that
great for your pet. You should always look at the labels and understand
them fully before you start criticizing. You should consider whether or
not the food is actually made of what it says. There are specific
guidelines on what a food can be called. Many other food brands will
say that they are made with chicken when in fact they are made with
whatever meat is cheaper at that time.

Corn is perfectly fine to feed to any cat or dog. When they begin to
have "skin problems" it is generally related to a food allergy and not
because the food is terrible. In that case, z/d is a great product for
them because it is hypoallergenic so it has completely limited
ingredients so as to reduce the allergens in the food. It is not a food
to feed to every animal who does not need this prescription diet. You
wouldn't stop eating peanuts just because other people are allergic to
them.

I think that science diet gets a bad rap because it is so popular,
however, it is so populare because it is a great food. I hope this
helps you.

Wendy
July 28th 06, 12:31 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
>> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
>> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>>
>> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
>> ingredients?
>
> No. Hill's is peddaled by vets because they get benefits for doing so.
> It's **** food - always has been, always will be.
>
> -L.
>

Well, my Tigger lived to be almost 19 on Science Diet. Could be the food,
more than likely she just had good genetics. OTOH the only health problem
she ever had was arthritis in her last 2-3 years so the food didn't do her
any damage either. I must say though that none of my cats have liked the SD
canned food so I feed them a different brand that they will eat.

I had never noticed before that they put L-Lysine in the food. Have they
always done that?

W

Joe Canuck
July 29th 06, 05:18 AM
-L. wrote:
> wrote:
>> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
>> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
>> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>>
>> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
>> ingredients?
>
> No. Hill's is peddaled by vets because they get benefits for doing so.
> It's **** food - always has been, always will be.
>
> -L.
>

Any evidence to back that up... such as a reference to a study or
independent nutritional analysis of the food?

Joe Canuck
July 29th 06, 05:24 AM
wrote:
> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>
> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
> ingredients?
>
> For example - their sensitive skin product:
>
> http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%
> 3Eprd_id=845524441760711&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037387&CONTENT%
> 3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673427816&bmUID=1154034219970
>
> Ingredients
> Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole
> Grain Corn, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric
> acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium
> Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine,
> vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E
> Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium
> Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine
> Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement,
> Iodized Salt, Taurine, Fish Oil, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide,
> Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite),
> preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, L-
> Tryptophan, Rosemary Extract.
>
>
> Although there's no wheat, I thought that corn was also a no-no for cats
> with skin problems - and what's with the by-products?
>
>
>
>
> Even their Nature's Best® with Real Chicken Adult product has chicken
> meal listed before chicken.
>
> How about the Advanced Protection® Senior 7+! There's some nice vitamins
> in there, but those first few ingredients!
>
> Ingredients
> Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Whole
> Grain Corn, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric
> acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor,
> Powdered Cellulose, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-
> Methionine, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt,
> Natural Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Taurine, vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement,
> Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate
> (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium
> Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin,
> Vitamin B12 Supplement, ), L-Cysteine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc
> Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite),
> Potassium Citrate, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and
> Citric Acid, Magnesium Oxide, L-Arginine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary
> Extract.
>
>
>
> I just took a look at their z/d and d/d prescription lines (both wet and
> dry) and they appear to be very promising in ingredients. What a pity
> that these foods aren't sold over the counter (and given away in samples
> to see if cats like them).
>
>
>

The story about a food isn't always told by ONLY reading the ingredients
list... try looking at the nutritional analysis as well.

Most folks spend far too much time focusing on the ingredients with very
little if any attention paid to the nutritional analysis.

One could have a food with meat ingredients listed as the first two
items, yet the nutritional analysis for the same food could be way off
what is considered healthy.

If you want some clues as to what is considered healthy in terms of
nutritional analysis I suggest you can start with reading the archives
of this group.

Phil P.
July 29th 06, 12:26 PM
> wrote in message
...
> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>
> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
> ingredients?
>

Nope. Try looking at the nutrient levels- they're more important. Science
Diet has about the best nutrient levels in the industry.

-L.
July 29th 06, 05:56 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> >
>
> Nope. Try looking at the nutrient levels- they're more important. Science
> Diet has about the best nutrient levels in the industry.

I have never met a cat that would eat it. At the vet we threw it away
by the bucketful...yet the vet still continued to feed it...I fed our
long-time borders other food just so they wouldn't starve to
death...which apparently one did before I got there.

-L.

John Ross Mc Master
July 29th 06, 09:33 PM
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:26:56 GMT, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
>> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
>> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>>
>> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
>> ingredients?
>>
>
>Nope. Try looking at the nutrient levels- they're more important. Science
>Diet has about the best nutrient levels in the industry.
>
My Cinder was loing weight until I put her on Science Diet kitten. It
works for me.

Phil P.
July 30th 06, 12:09 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Nope. Try looking at the nutrient levels- they're more important.
Science
> > Diet has about the best nutrient levels in the industry.
>
> I have never met a cat that would eat it. At the vet we threw it away
> by the bucketful...yet the vet still continued to feed it...I fed our
> long-time borders other food just so they wouldn't starve to
> death...which apparently one did before I got there.
>
> -L.


You've *never* met a cat that would eat Science Diet??? Are you sure about
that or are just saying that because you hate the company?

sax_playa86
July 30th 06, 09:53 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "-L." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Phil P. wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nope. Try looking at the nutrient levels- they're more important.
> Science
> > > Diet has about the best nutrient levels in the industry.
> >
> > I have never met a cat that would eat it. At the vet we threw it away
> > by the bucketful...yet the vet still continued to feed it...I fed our
> > long-time borders other food just so they wouldn't starve to
> > death...which apparently one did before I got there.
> >
> > -L.
>
>
> You've *never* met a cat that would eat Science Diet??? Are you sure about
> that or are just saying that because you hate the company?


My Marziale eats Science Diet. She has only ever eaten SD for her dry
food, and she loves it. The other cat in our house has been on numerous
different foods in an attempt to get her to eat something and like
something, and as much as Marziale has on a few occasions snuck over to
try her food, she always returns to her bowl of SD to 'mow down'.

-L.
July 31st 06, 02:13 AM
Phil P. wrote:
>
> You've *never* met a cat that would eat Science Diet??? Are you sure about
> that or are just saying that because you hate the company?

Why do you think I hate the company, Phil? I have never met a cat that
would eat the ****, yet vets push it left and right. You'd think after
having umpteen dozens (hundreds?) of bags returned, they's get a
clue...

-L.

cybercat
July 31st 06, 02:20 AM
"-L." > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> >
> > You've *never* met a cat that would eat Science Diet??? Are you sure
about
> > that or are just saying that because you hate the company?
>
> Why do you think I hate the company, Phil? I have never met a cat that
> would eat the ****, yet vets push it left and right. You'd think after
> having umpteen dozens (hundreds?) of bags returned, they's get a
> clue...
>

My cat that lived to be twenty loved it and did great on it. It was
just the regular dry, smelled fishy and seemed greasy. It was obvious
that she used more of it because she pooped less, no kidding. (This
is compared to other, cheaper dry food. Canned gave her really nasty
stinky diarrhea.) She was on it for 15 of her 20 years. She had all her
teeth when she died and never had a single illness. THAT said, I do
believe she was genetically blessed. I think of the mechanism that
produced her as Survival of the Stump Stupid and Mean as a Snake.
:)

-L.
July 31st 06, 02:30 AM
cybercat wrote:
> My cat that lived to be twenty loved it and did great on it. It was
> just the regular dry, smelled fishy and seemed greasy. It was obvious
> that she used more of it because she pooped less, no kidding. (This
> is compared to other, cheaper dry food. Canned gave her really nasty
> stinky diarrhea.) She was on it for 15 of her 20 years. She had all her
> teeth when she died and never had a single illness. THAT said, I do
> believe she was genetically blessed. I think of the mechanism that
> produced her as Survival of the Stump Stupid and Mean as a Snake.
> :)

I don't doubt there are some cats that eat the stuff - I have just
never met one. That being said, my brother's cat live to over 20 on
Meow Mix. She would never eat anything else, so that's what he fed her.
:p Sometimes I think we make way too much out of trying to feed our
cats the "best nutrition". A lot of the time that boils down to
whatever they *will* eat.

-L.

Phil P.
July 31st 06, 12:20 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Phil P. wrote:
> >
> > You've *never* met a cat that would eat Science Diet??? Are you sure
about
> > that or are just saying that because you hate the company?
>
> Why do you think I hate the company, Phil?


Gee, I can't imagine what could've given me the notion..... other than the
fact that you've been badmouthing the food since you've been posting here.


I have never met a cat that
> would eat the ****, yet vets push it left and right. You'd think after
> having umpteen dozens (hundreds?) of bags returned, they's get a
> clue...


We have adoption centers in 4 Petsmarts in 2 states. We get the pick of the
returned pet food before it gets donated. Even though I don't take open
bags of pet food, I'd be hard pressed to find more than a few bags of SD in
the returns. Compared to all the other brands excluding Purina, SD has
about the least returns of the premium foods in the 4 stores that I know of.

I think you might be referring to prescription diets because most vets- at
least in my area- don't sell OTC SD lines- only the prescription diets. Its
not difficult to understand why a cat would refuse a prescription diet.

PawsForThought
July 31st 06, 05:42 PM
wrote:
> Just curious. I was looking at the ingredients of some of the Science
> Diet dry foods and was amazed that the first or second ingredients were
> by-products followed by corn, etc.
>
> Don't you find it strange that such a highly thought of brand has those
> ingredients?

No, it's really a good way for them to make a profit. Personally, I
fed it to my previous cats and they did poorly on it. I know there's
some cats they do okay on it but mine never did. I've known people who
were feeding it and thought their cats were doing fine on it. But when
they tried a better food, they were amazed that their cats did better
on the new food compared to the Science Diet. Here's a really good
article on feline nutrition. It's kind of long, but it's a good read:

http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf

Lauren
see my cats: http://tinyurl.com/8glfv

-L.
July 31st 06, 05:46 PM
Phil P. wrote:

>
> Gee, I can't imagine what could've given me the notion..... other than the
> fact that you've been badmouthing the food since you've been posting here.

That's not what I meant. I meant I hate the company because cats won't
eat their food yet vets push it like crack.


>
>
> I have never met a cat that
> > would eat the ****, yet vets push it left and right. You'd think after
> > having umpteen dozens (hundreds?) of bags returned, they's get a
> > clue...
>
>
> We have adoption centers in 4 Petsmarts in 2 states. We get the pick of the
> returned pet food before it gets donated. Even though I don't take open
> bags of pet food, I'd be hard pressed to find more than a few bags of SD in
> the returns. Compared to all the other brands excluding Purina, SD has
> about the least returns of the premium foods in the 4 stores that I know of.

Vets feed the returned bags to the cats in-house.

>
> I think you might be referring to prescription diets because most vets- at
> least in my area- don't sell OTC SD lines- only the prescription diets. Its
> not difficult to understand why a cat would refuse a prescription diet.

They all got returned although I will admit c/d was the one with the
most returns.

-L.