PDA

View Full Version : Phil P, anyone, please help! Coronaviruses and FIP


Catjoy
September 13th 06, 06:18 PM
Hi everyone,

I have several questions and would appreciate any advice greatly. I've been
combing this forum for past FIP-related messages and found that several
people, including Phil P, were especially knowledgable on this topic.
However, I would TRULY welcome hearing from ANYONE who knows or has/had
experience on this topic. I apologize in advance for the length of this
email (I tried to shorten as much as I could), and thank you kindly in
advance for reading.

I have 3 cats right now - Snowy is 2 yrs & 8 mos; Petey is 1 yr & 4 mos; and
the newly acquired Toonie is about 3 mos old.

We had Snowy and Petey and were not really looking into getting a
third cat. However, a month ago, my sister called me from outside
of a restaurant she had been dining at. She had found a single
stray kitten crying loudly in the parking lot. My sister called us
and we went to pick her up with the intention that we would foster
her until we could put her up for adoption. Of course, that *had*
been out intention, but this kitten was so sweet and affectionate,
we decided to keep her.

The first
thing we did was take her to the vet to get blood tested for FeLV,
FIV, and coronavirus (which they of course call the FIP test, but isn't). The
test results came back as negative for FeLV and FIV, and positive for FIP.
Now, I know that about 80-90% of the cats from a multi-cat environment or
cattery test positive
for exposure to coronavirus. We took Toonie to a feline specialist who has
been practicing for many years (but still stays current on literature and
attends
feline conferences and such), and she relayed that she didn't believe in FIP
testing because of the reasons stated above. She also said that because
Toonie was healthy and tested neg for Feleuk and FIV, I didn't need to worry
about integrating her with my other cats.

Well, about a week ago, Toonie started to sneeze. The sneezing grew more
frequent in the few days following. She would spray a clear mucous when she
sneezed. For two days she had a little watering on her left eye, and for one
day, I could see a little yellowish dried mucous under her left nostril. Well
the watery eye and the
yellowish residue only lasted for the aforementioned periods. For about two
or three days after, she has a sort of brownish colour to the centre of her
nose. She has continued to sneeze, but the sneezing has become markedly less
frequent. She ate well pretty much the whole time, and her activity level
wasn't affected too much. Today, she is a little kitten maniac, but she is
still sneezing occasionally (no other symptoms).

Five days ago, Snowy started to sneeze. She seemed fine otherwise, but two
days ago and today (yesterday she was breathing with mouth closed) she seems
stuffed up and is breathing with her mouth slightly open, which is worrying
me. She didn't eat all her food for about 2 days (she ate about half her
usual). As of today, she is eating about 3/4 her usual. I've put on a
humidifer for her, and hopefully this will help.

As well, Petey has also started to sneeze as of about 3 days ago. He is
still eating well, but as of today and yesterday, he isn't quite as active as
usual, but still seems alert (comes to me when I open any can, thinking it is
his food, the cute piggy).

All three of the kitties' stools have been normal (no diarrhea). I should
also noted that both Snowy and Petey were tested as soon as we got them, and
they were neg for FeLV and FIV, and both tested positive for coronavirus
exposure.

We have experienced the horror of FIP in the past with one our late cats. We
did not biopsy her, which I know if the only way to get a *conclusive*
diagnosis. However, she had her ascites had a thick, viscous yellowish fliud,
and she had the other "classic" FIP symptoms - fluctuating fever unresponsive
to drugs, uveitis (vet we were seeing at the time suggested ennucleation),
poor coodination, weightloss, lethargy, etc. As most of you will know who
have experienced or suspected this disease, it was gutwrenching to see a
wonderful feline waste away. Because of this, we are especially concerned
and scared.

My questions are:

1) Does this seem like this is a coronavirus spreading, or a case of URI? Is
there a way to differentiate the two concretely?

2) If this is a coronavirus, if a cat has a bout of sneezing and then
completely recovers, does that mean that the cat has cleared the virus from
its system completely? Or can it mean that they have suppressed it but it can
reappear at a later time if the animal is
stressed? If a cat is to develop FIP, do they tend to develop it shortly
after an episode of sneezing (I was wondering where sneezing fits in the FIP
timeline)?

3) When we found Toonie, she had a broken leg that had to be operated on.
Thankfully, she recovered even better than the vet had expected. She has to
go back to the vet to get the pin in her leg removed soon, which I am told is
a short procedure (5 min), but of course, she will have to be anaesthetized.
However, I don't want to be taking her when she is sneezing. If this is a
coronavirus being spread, I don't want to stress her with any surgery until a
period after the sneezing has stopped completely. How long would some of you
suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely stopped?

Sorry about the length of this message, and thank you for your time.

Purrs and headbbuts,
Jan, Snowy, Petey & Toonie

Phil P.
September 13th 06, 08:46 PM
"Catjoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have several questions and would appreciate any advice greatly. I've
been
> combing this forum for past FIP-related messages and found that several
> people, including Phil P, were especially knowledgable on this topic.
> However, I would TRULY welcome hearing from ANYONE who knows or has/had
> experience on this topic. I apologize in advance for the length of this
> email (I tried to shorten as much as I could), and thank you kindly in
> advance for reading.
>
> I have 3 cats right now - Snowy is 2 yrs & 8 mos; Petey is 1 yr & 4 mos;
and
> the newly acquired Toonie is about 3 mos old.
>
> We had Snowy and Petey and were not really looking into getting a
> third cat. However, a month ago, my sister called me from outside
> of a restaurant she had been dining at. She had found a single
> stray kitten crying loudly in the parking lot. My sister called us
> and we went to pick her up with the intention that we would foster
> her until we could put her up for adoption. Of course, that *had*
> been out intention, but this kitten was so sweet and affectionate,
> we decided to keep her.
>
> The first
> thing we did was take her to the vet to get blood tested for FeLV,
> FIV, and coronavirus (which they of course call the FIP test, but isn't).
The
> test results came back as negative for FeLV and FIV, and positive for FIP.
> Now, I know that about 80-90% of the cats from a multi-cat environment or
> cattery test positive
> for exposure to coronavirus. We took Toonie to a feline specialist who
has
> been practicing for many years (but still stays current on literature and
> attends
> feline conferences and such), and she relayed that she didn't believe in
FIP
> testing because of the reasons stated above. She also said that because
> Toonie was healthy and tested neg for Feleuk and FIV, I didn't need to
worry
> about integrating her with my other cats.
>
> Well, about a week ago, Toonie started to sneeze. The sneezing grew more
> frequent in the few days following. She would spray a clear mucous when
she
> sneezed. For two days she had a little watering on her left eye, and for
one
> day, I could see a little yellowish dried mucous under her left nostril.
Well
> the watery eye and the
> yellowish residue only lasted for the aforementioned periods. For about
two
> or three days after, she has a sort of brownish colour to the centre of
her
> nose. She has continued to sneeze, but the sneezing has become markedly
less
> frequent. She ate well pretty much the whole time, and her activity level
> wasn't affected too much. Today, she is a little kitten maniac, but she is
> still sneezing occasionally (no other symptoms).
>
> Five days ago, Snowy started to sneeze. She seemed fine otherwise, but two
> days ago and today (yesterday she was breathing with mouth closed) she
seems
> stuffed up and is breathing with her mouth slightly open, which is
worrying
> me. She didn't eat all her food for about 2 days (she ate about half her
> usual). As of today, she is eating about 3/4 her usual. I've put on a
> humidifer for her, and hopefully this will help.
>
> As well, Petey has also started to sneeze as of about 3 days ago. He is
> still eating well, but as of today and yesterday, he isn't quite as active
as
> usual, but still seems alert (comes to me when I open any can, thinking it
is
> his food, the cute piggy).
>
> All three of the kitties' stools have been normal (no diarrhea). I should
> also noted that both Snowy and Petey were tested as soon as we got them,
and
> they were neg for FeLV and FIV, and both tested positive for coronavirus
> exposure.
>
> We have experienced the horror of FIP in the past with one our late cats.
We
> did not biopsy her, which I know if the only way to get a *conclusive*
> diagnosis. However, she had her ascites had a thick, viscous yellowish
fliud,
> and she had the other "classic" FIP symptoms - fluctuating fever
unresponsive
> to drugs, uveitis (vet we were seeing at the time suggested ennucleation),
> poor coodination, weightloss, lethargy, etc. As most of you will know who
> have experienced or suspected this disease, it was gutwrenching to see a
> wonderful feline waste away. Because of this, we are especially concerned
> and scared.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1) Does this seem like this is a coronavirus spreading,


No.

>or a case of URI?

Yes-- maybe. Has your new cat been vaccinated (FVRCP)?



Is
> there a way to differentiate the two concretely?


Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major symptom of FCoV infection
is diarrhea.


>
> 2) If this is a coronavirus, if a cat has a bout of sneezing and then
> completely recovers, does that mean that the cat has cleared the virus
from
> its system completely? Or can it mean that they have suppressed it but it
can
> reappear at a later time if the animal is
> stressed? If a cat is to develop FIP, do they tend to develop it shortly
> after an episode of sneezing (I was wondering where sneezing fits in the
FIP
> timeline)?

The cat probably reactivated a latent upper respiratory virus due to the
stress of a new environment. Your other cats probably picked up a mild
case.


>
> 3) When we found Toonie, she had a broken leg that had to be operated on.
> Thankfully, she recovered even better than the vet had expected. She has
to
> go back to the vet to get the pin in her leg removed soon, which I am told
is
> a short procedure (5 min), but of course, she will have to be
anaesthetized.
> However, I don't want to be taking her when she is sneezing. If this is a
> coronavirus being spread, I don't want to stress her with any surgery
until a
> period after the sneezing has stopped completely. How long would some of
you
> suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely stopped?

A week.



>
> Sorry about the length of this message, and thank you for your time.


Please stop worrying about coronaviruses and FIP.


Best of luck,

Phil

Catjoy
September 13th 06, 10:19 PM
Hi Phil,

Many thanks for your reply. It is greatly appreciated!!

>>or a case of URI?
>Yes-- maybe. Has your new cat been vaccinated (FVRCP)?
No, kitty has not been FVRCP vaccinated yet. I haven't wanted to her
vaccinate her until she gained better body conditioning (she was very skinny
when we found her), and when she's finished with her leg procedures.

>Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major >symptom of FCoV infection
>is diarrhea.
I am rather confused... A number of sites list sneezing as a symptom of
coronavirus:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resources/brochure/fip.html
What are the signs of FIP?
Initial exposure to the FIP virus usually results in no obvious clinical
disease, although some cats may experience a mild upper respiratory disease
that is characterized by sneezing, watery eyes, and watery nasal discharge.
Some cats may experience a mild intestinal disease. Most cats that undergo
the primary infection completely recover, although some of them may become
virus carriers. Only a small percentage of exposed cats develop the lethal
disease: weeks, months, or perhaps years after primary infection.


http://www.dr-addie.com/PreventionS1.htm
Wouldn't let me copy and paste, but please see Table 1 which says that cats
may have transient sneezing or diarrhea or be asymptomatic after FCoV
infection.

http://www.animalhealthchannel.com/fip/symptoms.shtml
Symptoms
Primary infection
Most cats initially are asymptomatic, but the virus is at work. After
ingestion, the virus immediately begins to replicate in the cat’s pharynx and
small intestine. From there it moves into the throat, lungs, stomach, and
intestines. About 1 to 10 days later, it can be spread to other cats.
During this time, cats may display the symptoms of a mild upper respiratory
infection: sneezing, watery eyes, and nasal discharge. Others give the
appearance of having an intestinal problem: diarrhea, weight loss, and
lethargy.

http://www.cat-lovers-only.com/fip-symptom.html
The FIP symptom list ranges from sneezing, to fever, to a lethal array of
body system breakdown.

http://www.2ndchance.info/fip.htm
The first signs of Coronavirus infection are quite mild. They are usually
confined to a mild upper respiratory tract infection with no more than some
sneezing, watery eyes and nasal discharge. Some forms of Coronavirus cause
transient diarrhea. In most cats nothing more develops and the infection
passes.

Am I missing something here?

>> How long would some of you
>> suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely >>stopped?
>A week.
I was thinking the same myself. :)

>Please stop worrying about coronaviruses and FIP.
Thank you, Phil. We are trying our best. I think the bloodtest result (DNA-
PCR), though we were told by the feline-only vet that it has no merit,
bothers us a little. This is because it came back "high-risk" positive, as
opposed to "low-risk" positive for FIP (my other two cats came back as low
risk positive), and because of our brush with FIP in the past. However, upon
investigation, I found out that the lab used bases this on one study of "more
than 100 cats" where they correlated genetic banding patterns with cats who
were confirmed (via biopsy) to have died of FIP. The lab also told us that
the chances of FIP developing are 1 in 10 for "low-risk" results, and and 3
in 10 for "high-risk" results. These figures sound pretty arbitrary to me.
Still, our late cat that passed away had come back positive high risk from
this lab's test. So, our thoughts are in a tug of war, and we are trying not
to be scared.

Thank you again for your response. My kitties and their slave (me) are very
grateful.

All the best,
Jan and the 3

Wendy
September 14th 06, 03:14 AM
You brought in a cat who was skinny and not in the best shape. It's very
common for cats in that condition to show URI symptoms shortly after they
are taken to their new homes. You said the symptoms showed up shortly after
you integrated the new cats with your resident cats. That is a stressful
time and more than likely triggered the URI which she passed on to your
other cats.

I suppose it's possible that these symptoms are from corona exposure but
it's much more likely that it's just what it looks like - an URI which is
seen frequently in cats that have been struggling to stay alive outside.

You do know that you have at least one FCoV positive cat so you should make
sure you have one litter box per cat +one and keep them scooped frequently
so they are less likely to keep passing the virus back and forth from one to
another. Feed all of them good quality food and keep them as stress free as
possible. Dr. Addie also has some litter recommendations on her site.

Here's a link for a FIP email group. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
A lot of knowledgeable people there who have spent a lot of time gathering
information on FIP.



W




"Catjoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Hi Phil,
>
> Many thanks for your reply. It is greatly appreciated!!
>
>>>or a case of URI?
>>Yes-- maybe. Has your new cat been vaccinated (FVRCP)?
> No, kitty has not been FVRCP vaccinated yet. I haven't wanted to her
> vaccinate her until she gained better body conditioning (she was very
> skinny
> when we found her), and when she's finished with her leg procedures.
>
>>Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major >symptom of FCoV
>>infection
>>is diarrhea.
> I am rather confused... A number of sites list sneezing as a symptom of
> coronavirus:
>
> http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resources/brochure/fip.html
> What are the signs of FIP?
> Initial exposure to the FIP virus usually results in no obvious clinical
> disease, although some cats may experience a mild upper respiratory
> disease
> that is characterized by sneezing, watery eyes, and watery nasal
> discharge.
> Some cats may experience a mild intestinal disease. Most cats that undergo
> the primary infection completely recover, although some of them may become
> virus carriers. Only a small percentage of exposed cats develop the lethal
> disease: weeks, months, or perhaps years after primary infection.
>
>
> http://www.dr-addie.com/PreventionS1.htm
> Wouldn't let me copy and paste, but please see Table 1 which says that
> cats
> may have transient sneezing or diarrhea or be asymptomatic after FCoV
> infection.
>
> http://www.animalhealthchannel.com/fip/symptoms.shtml
> Symptoms
> Primary infection
> Most cats initially are asymptomatic, but the virus is at work. After
> ingestion, the virus immediately begins to replicate in the catís pharynx
> and
> small intestine. From there it moves into the throat, lungs, stomach, and
> intestines. About 1 to 10 days later, it can be spread to other cats.
> During this time, cats may display the symptoms of a mild upper
> respiratory
> infection: sneezing, watery eyes, and nasal discharge. Others give the
> appearance of having an intestinal problem: diarrhea, weight loss, and
> lethargy.
>
> http://www.cat-lovers-only.com/fip-symptom.html
> The FIP symptom list ranges from sneezing, to fever, to a lethal array of
> body system breakdown.
>
> http://www.2ndchance.info/fip.htm
> The first signs of Coronavirus infection are quite mild. They are usually
> confined to a mild upper respiratory tract infection with no more than
> some
> sneezing, watery eyes and nasal discharge. Some forms of Coronavirus cause
> transient diarrhea. In most cats nothing more develops and the infection
> passes.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
>>> How long would some of you
>>> suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely >>stopped?
>>A week.
> I was thinking the same myself. :)
>
>>Please stop worrying about coronaviruses and FIP.
> Thank you, Phil. We are trying our best. I think the bloodtest result
> (DNA-
> PCR), though we were told by the feline-only vet that it has no merit,
> bothers us a little. This is because it came back "high-risk" positive,
> as
> opposed to "low-risk" positive for FIP (my other two cats came back as low
> risk positive), and because of our brush with FIP in the past. However,
> upon
> investigation, I found out that the lab used bases this on one study of
> "more
> than 100 cats" where they correlated genetic banding patterns with cats
> who
> were confirmed (via biopsy) to have died of FIP. The lab also told us
> that
> the chances of FIP developing are 1 in 10 for "low-risk" results, and and
> 3
> in 10 for "high-risk" results. These figures sound pretty arbitrary to
> me.
> Still, our late cat that passed away had come back positive high risk from
> this lab's test. So, our thoughts are in a tug of war, and we are trying
> not
> to be scared.
>
> Thank you again for your response. My kitties and their slave (me) are
> very
> grateful.
>
> All the best,
> Jan and the 3
>

Catjoy via CatKB.com
September 14th 06, 04:20 AM
>You do know that you have at least one FCoV positive cat so you should make
>sure you have one litter box per cat +one and keep them scooped frequently
>so they are less likely to keep passing the virus back and forth from one to
>another.
All of my cats tested positive for corona exposure. I am being more vigilant
about scooping and changing the litter entirely to keep the virus in check as
much as possible.

> Feed all of them good quality food and keep them as stress free as
>possible. Dr. Addie also has some litter recommendations on her site.
I give them top quality wet food with human grade ingredients. I will also
take care to keep them as stress free as possible. After reading Dr. Addie's
site last month, I was thinking of changing my litter to one of her
recommendations. However, I also purchased her FIP e-book, and inside, she
recommends World's Best Cat Litter, which happened to be the one I was/am
using. As you probably know, it is very expensive, but it is very good.
I've also been hearing some nice things about Feline Pine recently, but will
stick to WBCL, seeing that Dr. Addie found it to have some anti-viral
activity.

>Here's a link for a FIP email group. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
>A lot of knowledgeable people there who have spent a lot of time gathering
>information on FIP.
Thanks for the link Wendy. I'm a member of this group and had actually
posted this exact message there, but got no responses, so thought I would
post here as well.

Thank you for your advice and recommendations. :)

All the best,
Jan and the kitties

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Catjoy via CatKB.com
September 14th 06, 04:29 AM
Hi Wendy,

>You do know that you have at least one FCoV positive cat so you should make
>sure you have one litter box per cat +one and keep them scooped frequently
>so they are less likely to keep passing the virus back and forth from one to
>another.
I just got what you were saying here after I had posted my last message. I
have at least one because the other two could have eliminated the
virus/stopped shedding it since I had them tested. I will continue to scoop
frequently and thanks again.

Jan

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200609/1

Phil P.
September 14th 06, 01:22 PM
"Catjoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Hi Phil,
>
> Many thanks for your reply. It is greatly appreciated!!
>
> >>or a case of URI?
> >Yes-- maybe. Has your new cat been vaccinated (FVRCP)?
> No, kitty has not been FVRCP vaccinated yet. I haven't wanted to her
> vaccinate her until she gained better body conditioning (she was very
skinny
> when we found her), and when she's finished with her leg procedures.
>
> >Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major >symptom of FCoV
infection
> >is diarrhea.
> I am rather confused... A number of sites list sneezing as a symptom of
> coronavirus:

<snip>

> Am I missing something here?


"Coronavirus" is not interchangeable with "FIP". FIP is the clinical stage
of the disease. Sneezing is not pathognomonic of FIP.

>
> >> How long would some of you
> >> suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely >>stopped?
> >A week.
> I was thinking the same myself. :)
>
> >Please stop worrying about coronaviruses and FIP.


> Thank you, Phil. We are trying our best. I think the bloodtest result
(DNA-
> PCR), though we were told by the feline-only vet that it has no merit,


They're right.


> bothers us a little. This is because it came back "high-risk" positive,
as
> opposed to "low-risk" positive for FIP (my other two cats came back as low
> risk positive), and because of our brush with FIP in the past. However,
upon
> investigation, I found out that the lab used bases this on one study of
"more
> than 100 cats" where they correlated genetic banding patterns with cats
who
> were confirmed (via biopsy) to have died of FIP. The lab also told us
that
> the chances of FIP developing are 1 in 10 for "low-risk" results, and and
3
> in 10 for "high-risk" results. These figures sound pretty arbitrary to
me.

They are. The FIP mutation is generated within each particular cat- which
means no two cases of FIP are cause by the same virus. So, horizontal
transmission (cat to cat) of FIP is the exception rather than the rule.
Other cats exposed to a cat with FIP have the same low risk of developing
FIP as any cat infected with the enteric coronavirus.



> Still, our late cat that passed away had come back positive high risk from
> this lab's test. So, our thoughts are in a tug of war, and we are trying
not
> to be scared.

Sounds like this lab has conjured up a new angle for selling bogus "FIP
tests". Every few years some lab develops a "better" FIP test- which is
just as useless as all the rest.


>
> Thank you again for your response. My kitties and their slave (me) are
very
> grateful.


Remember, a sneeze is just a sneeze. As I said in my previous post, the
stress of a new environment probably reactivated a latent URI virus and your
resident cats probably picked up a mild case.

Best of luck,

Phil

Rhonda
September 14th 06, 06:13 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Catjoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

>>No, kitty has not been FVRCP vaccinated yet. I haven't wanted to her
>>vaccinate her until she gained better body conditioning (she was very
>> skinny when we found her), and when she's finished with her leg procedures.

>>>Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major symptom of FCoV
>>> infection is diarrhea.

>>I am rather confused... A number of sites list sneezing as a symptom of
>>coronavirus:

> <snip>
>
>>Am I missing something here?
>
> "Coronavirus" is not interchangeable with "FIP". FIP is the clinical stage
> of the disease. Sneezing is not pathognomonic of FIP.

Okay, now I'm confused. I thought sneezing was a symptom of coronavirus
too, which is what she asked. You said it is not a symptom of FCoV --
isn't that coronavirus? She wasn't asking for symptoms of FIP.

Rhonda

Debra Berry
September 14th 06, 06:58 PM
Hi,

Phil has given you excellent advice. I had a kitten that developed
FIP so I'll just add in my 2 cents.

Claire never sneezed. She did get lethargic and run intermittant high
fevers.
She then developed a distended abdomen. That is one of the symptoms of
"wet" FIP. They drew out a sticky, straw colored fluid from her
abdomen.
This is one of the indicators of FIP rather than another problem.

Corona virus for cats is like colds for people. Most cats have been
exposed to the corona virus if they have been with other cats, and will
test
positive if tested. This does not mean they have FIP. FIP is a mutated
form of the corona virus. It is a deadly disease, but isn't very
common.
Testing for the corona virus can only tell that the cat DOES NOT have
FIP. If the cat tests negative for the corona virus then it has never
been
exposed to that virus in any form, therefore not FIP either.

I had 2 other cats when Claire passed away. Both were adults and
neither
of them developed any signs of FIP. Since all of my cats were adopted
from
rescue groups, I wouldn't be surprised if they all tested positive for
corona virus.

Wishing you luck,
Debbie


Catjoy wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have several questions and would appreciate any advice greatly. I've been
> combing this forum for past FIP-related messages and found that several
> people, including Phil P, were especially knowledgable on this topic.
> However, I would TRULY welcome hearing from ANYONE who knows or has/had
> experience on this topic. I apologize in advance for the length of this
> email (I tried to shorten as much as I could), and thank you kindly in
> advance for reading.
>
> I have 3 cats right now - Snowy is 2 yrs & 8 mos; Petey is 1 yr & 4 mos; and
> the newly acquired Toonie is about 3 mos old.
>
> We had Snowy and Petey and were not really looking into getting a
> third cat. However, a month ago, my sister called me from outside
> of a restaurant she had been dining at. She had found a single
> stray kitten crying loudly in the parking lot. My sister called us
> and we went to pick her up with the intention that we would foster
> her until we could put her up for adoption. Of course, that *had*
> been out intention, but this kitten was so sweet and affectionate,
> we decided to keep her.
>
> The first
> thing we did was take her to the vet to get blood tested for FeLV,
> FIV, and coronavirus (which they of course call the FIP test, but isn't). The
> test results came back as negative for FeLV and FIV, and positive for FIP.
> Now, I know that about 80-90% of the cats from a multi-cat environment or
> cattery test positive
> for exposure to coronavirus. We took Toonie to a feline specialist who has
> been practicing for many years (but still stays current on literature and
> attends
> feline conferences and such), and she relayed that she didn't believe in FIP
> testing because of the reasons stated above. She also said that because
> Toonie was healthy and tested neg for Feleuk and FIV, I didn't need to worry
> about integrating her with my other cats.
>
> Well, about a week ago, Toonie started to sneeze. The sneezing grew more
> frequent in the few days following. She would spray a clear mucous when she
> sneezed. For two days she had a little watering on her left eye, and for one
> day, I could see a little yellowish dried mucous under her left nostril. Well
> the watery eye and the
> yellowish residue only lasted for the aforementioned periods. For about two
> or three days after, she has a sort of brownish colour to the centre of her
> nose. She has continued to sneeze, but the sneezing has become markedly less
> frequent. She ate well pretty much the whole time, and her activity level
> wasn't affected too much. Today, she is a little kitten maniac, but she is
> still sneezing occasionally (no other symptoms).
>
> Five days ago, Snowy started to sneeze. She seemed fine otherwise, but two
> days ago and today (yesterday she was breathing with mouth closed) she seems
> stuffed up and is breathing with her mouth slightly open, which is worrying
> me. She didn't eat all her food for about 2 days (she ate about half her
> usual). As of today, she is eating about 3/4 her usual. I've put on a
> humidifer for her, and hopefully this will help.
>
> As well, Petey has also started to sneeze as of about 3 days ago. He is
> still eating well, but as of today and yesterday, he isn't quite as active as
> usual, but still seems alert (comes to me when I open any can, thinking it is
> his food, the cute piggy).
>
> All three of the kitties' stools have been normal (no diarrhea). I should
> also noted that both Snowy and Petey were tested as soon as we got them, and
> they were neg for FeLV and FIV, and both tested positive for coronavirus
> exposure.
>
> We have experienced the horror of FIP in the past with one our late cats. We
> did not biopsy her, which I know if the only way to get a *conclusive*
> diagnosis. However, she had her ascites had a thick, viscous yellowish fliud,
> and she had the other "classic" FIP symptoms - fluctuating fever unresponsive
> to drugs, uveitis (vet we were seeing at the time suggested ennucleation),
> poor coodination, weightloss, lethargy, etc. As most of you will know who
> have experienced or suspected this disease, it was gutwrenching to see a
> wonderful feline waste away. Because of this, we are especially concerned
> and scared.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1) Does this seem like this is a coronavirus spreading, or a case of URI? Is
> there a way to differentiate the two concretely?
>
> 2) If this is a coronavirus, if a cat has a bout of sneezing and then
> completely recovers, does that mean that the cat has cleared the virus from
> its system completely? Or can it mean that they have suppressed it but it can
> reappear at a later time if the animal is
> stressed? If a cat is to develop FIP, do they tend to develop it shortly
> after an episode of sneezing (I was wondering where sneezing fits in the FIP
> timeline)?
>
> 3) When we found Toonie, she had a broken leg that had to be operated on.
> Thankfully, she recovered even better than the vet had expected. She has to
> go back to the vet to get the pin in her leg removed soon, which I am told is
> a short procedure (5 min), but of course, she will have to be anaesthetized.
> However, I don't want to be taking her when she is sneezing. If this is a
> coronavirus being spread, I don't want to stress her with any surgery until a
> period after the sneezing has stopped completely. How long would some of you
> suggest I wait to take her after her sneezing has completely stopped?
>
> Sorry about the length of this message, and thank you for your time.
>
> Purrs and headbbuts,
> Jan, Snowy, Petey & Toonie

Rhonda
September 14th 06, 07:44 PM
Debra Berry wrote:

> Corona virus for cats is like colds for people. Most cats have been
> exposed to the corona virus if they have been with other cats, and will
> test positive if tested.

Hi Debbie,

I think that's the part she wanted to know (and I was curious about,)
and how to tell the difference with a URI.

She's had a cat with FIP and I think she understands the relationship
between that and corona virus. She was wondering if her current kitten,
who tested positive for corona virus, and started recently sneezing is
passing corona virus to the other cats or passing a regular URI. Is
there a way to tell the difference between the two and what are the odds
that it is corona?

This is interesting to me. We've had URI's here and hopefully not any
corona that could eventually turn into FIP.

Rhonda

Phil P.
September 14th 06, 08:48 PM
"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. wrote:
> > "Catjoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
>
> >>No, kitty has not been FVRCP vaccinated yet. I haven't wanted to her
> >>vaccinate her until she gained better body conditioning (she was very
> >> skinny when we found her), and when she's finished with her leg
procedures.
>
> >>>Sneezing is a symptom of URI- not FCoV. The major symptom of FCoV
> >>> infection is diarrhea.
>
> >>I am rather confused... A number of sites list sneezing as a symptom of
> >>coronavirus:
>
> > <snip>
> >
> >>Am I missing something here?
> >
> > "Coronavirus" is not interchangeable with "FIP". FIP is the clinical
stage
> > of the disease. Sneezing is not pathognomonic of FIP.
>
> Okay, now I'm confused. I thought sneezing was a symptom of coronavirus
> too, which is what she asked. You said it is not a symptom of FCoV --
> isn't that coronavirus? She wasn't asking for symptoms of FIP.

She's asking about symptoms of FCoV because she's worried about her cats
developing FIP. So in effect, she's asking about early symptoms of FIP
since FIPV develops from FCoV.

Sneezing is not pathognomonic of FCoV or FIP. Some FCoV+ cats might sneeze
others may not. Some FCoV+ may develop diarrhea and others may not-- and
others might not have any symptoms at all.

Catjoy via CatKB.com
September 15th 06, 01:35 AM
Hi,

Thanks so much Phil, Debbie, and Rhonda, for your great and very valued input.
There are some really fantastic people on this forum, I am very grateful to
have found it.

Rhonda - you hit my most urgent and perplexing questions **right on the
nail**. You asked the *exact* questions that I'd wanted to ask when I read
the responses. Thanks for asking them.

Does anybody know the answer to mine and Rhonda's questions?

>I think that's the part she wanted to know (and I was curious about,)
>and how to tell the difference with a URI.
YES!

>She's had a cat with FIP and I think she understands the relationship
>between that and corona virus. She was wondering if her current kitten,
>who tested positive for corona virus, and started recently sneezing is
>passing corona virus to the other cats or passing a regular URI. Is
>there a way to tell the difference between the two and what are the odds
>that it is corona?
Yes, again!! It would be excellent to have someone shed some light on this.


>This is interesting to me. We've had URI's here and hopefully not any
>corona that could eventually turn into FIP.
I hope so too. I had one cat who really fit the bill of FIP, and an elderly
cat (13 yrs) who also died in less than a year after being with the then new
kittien. Prior to the new kitten, my elderly cat had been the lone cat
(strictly indoor one), and had had no exposure to other cats since she was a
kitten.

Elderly cat could have had a latent corona that was reactivated. But I also
suspect that the kitten passed the coronavirus to her (I had a total of 3
cats at the time), because of the timing.

I cannot say as concretely that my elderly cat also died of FIP, but I think
she might have, and our vet thought so too. So that is why I have all these
questions. I am being bombarded with info that states it is very rare for 2
cats in the same household to get FIP, yet it appears that two of my late
cats died of it. I believe that few cats ever develop FIP, but I would love
to get some answers to these questions so I can have more knowledge about
this.

Kind regards,
Jan and the kitties

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Catjoy via CatKB.com
September 15th 06, 01:37 AM
Sorry, thanks to Wendy as well for your advice - I appreciate it!!

Kind regards,
Jan

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Phil P.
September 15th 06, 10:48 AM
"Catjoy via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
>
> Thanks so much Phil, Debbie, and Rhonda, for your great and very valued
input.
> There are some really fantastic people on this forum, I am very grateful
to
> have found it.
>
> Rhonda - you hit my most urgent and perplexing questions **right on the
> nail**. You asked the *exact* questions that I'd wanted to ask when I
read
> the responses. Thanks for asking them.
>
> Does anybody know the answer to mine and Rhonda's questions?
>
> >I think that's the part she wanted to know (and I was curious about,)
> >and how to tell the difference with a URI.
> YES!

Let me see if I got this straight: You want to know how to tell the
difference between a "coronavirus sneeze" and a URI sneeze and if the cat is
sneezing due to coronavirus infection or a URI, and if coronavirus could be
transmitted by sneezing? When you find the answer to the first part of the
question, let me know. Sometimes sneezing is the only symptom of a URI, so
I don't know how you would distinguish a URI sneeze from a FCoV sneeze.

As far as an infected cat infecting other cats by sneezing-- its possible
but not probable. The virus is sometimes (rarely) shed in saliva in the
early stages of infection.