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The Other Mike
September 29th 06, 08:30 PM
We recently found out our 16 year old cat has high creatinine and BUN
levels. Phosphorus and other blood levels are in the normal range and
urine s/g is at 1.017. Since having him on SubQ fluids, the
creatinine levels have dropped from 5.7 to 5.2 and BUN from 57 to 42.
We're now trying to get him on a k/d diet but are having a very hard
time with it. He just refuses to eat it...tried mixing with regular
food, by itself, different brands...etc to no avail. So my question
is...if we feed him a better quality food such as wellness or merrick
and keep him on the daily fluids, is there much of a difference
considering his phosphorus and other blood levels are normal?

Phil P.
September 30th 06, 04:22 AM
"The Other Mike" > wrote in message
...
> We recently found out our 16 year old cat has high creatinine and BUN
> levels. Phosphorus and other blood levels are in the normal range and
> urine s/g is at 1.017. Since having him on SubQ fluids, the
> creatinine levels have dropped from 5.7 to 5.2 and BUN from 57 to 42.
> We're now trying to get him on a k/d diet but are having a very hard
> time with it. He just refuses to eat it...tried mixing with regular
> food, by itself, different brands...etc to no avail. So my question
> is...if we feed him a better quality food such as wellness or merrick
> and keep him on the daily fluids, is there much of a difference
> considering his phosphorus and other blood levels are normal?

Try Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal. If he won't eat those, OTC
Science Diets have about the best phosphorus levels. If your cat is
receiving fluid therapy he should be getting a potassium supplement ~2-4
mEq/day.

Also, you might want to start giving him an omega-3 supplement. I recommend
3V Caps HP liquid

http://www.dvmpharmaceuticals.com/display.html?c=6&fam=3VCaps%20Liquid%20HP

Good luck,

Phil

The Other Mike
September 30th 06, 10:33 PM
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:22:39 GMT, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>Try Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal. If he won't eat those, OTC
>Science Diets have about the best phosphorus levels. If your cat is
>receiving fluid therapy he should be getting a potassium supplement ~2-4
>mEq/day.
>
>Also, you might want to start giving him an omega-3 supplement. I recommend
>3V Caps HP liquid
>
>http://www.dvmpharmaceuticals.com/display.html?c=6&fam=3VCaps%20Liquid%20HP
>
>Good luck,

Thanks for the info...unfortunately I'm not sure we'll need it. We
found out today that the constipation he was experiencing which we
thought was related to the kidney problems turned out to be a tumor in
his colon. Amazing...in a split second we went from worrying about
his kidneys to worrying about cancer and wondering if we'll have to
put him down very soon. We're waiting for ultrasound results to see
if it spread and will go from there. We just lost his sister 2 months
ago and now this...it's turning out to be a horrible 2006.

22brix
October 1st 06, 06:14 AM
"The Other Mike" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thanks for the info...unfortunately I'm not sure we'll need it. We
> found out today that the constipation he was experiencing which we
> thought was related to the kidney problems turned out to be a tumor in
> his colon. Amazing...in a split second we went from worrying about
> his kidneys to worrying about cancer and wondering if we'll have to
> put him down very soon. We're waiting for ultrasound results to see
> if it spread and will go from there. We just lost his sister 2 months
> ago and now this...it's turning out to be a horrible 2006.

Mike, I'm so sorry--sometimes life is just the pits. I'm hoping for the
best for your kitty and you.

Bonnie

Kathy Morgan
October 2nd 06, 05:40 PM
Phil P. > wrote:

> "The Other Mike" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We recently found out our 16 year old cat has high creatinine and BUN
> > levels. [...] He just refuses to eat it...tried mixing with regular
> > food, by itself, different brands...etc to no avail.
>
> Try Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal. If he won't eat those, OTC
> Science Diets have about the best phosphorus levels. If your cat is
> receiving fluid therapy he should be getting a potassium supplement ~2-4
> mEq/day.

I'm having similar problems. I have a 9 year old Siamese female Smudge
who has just been diagnosed with CRF and she just won't touch the canned
k/d or r/d. (The vet suggested that the r/d would be okay if we just
can't get her to eat the k/d.) Smudge will eat the dry k/d and
voluntarily drinks a lot of water. Her previous owner fed her strictly
cheap dry food on demand; we've been trying for several years to get her
to eat canned SD food on a twice a day schedule with only limited
success. Up until this diagnoses she had been eating mostly dry SD
Senior food, but has been willing to eat small quantities of the SD
savory cuts in gravy. I've tried mixing a minute portion of k/d canned
with the savory cuts, with and without dry sprinkles on top, but she
won't even go near the bowl.

She drinks more water than the other cats and produces a much higher
volume of urine than the others, which is what led us to have the blood
tests done. She has also lost a couple of pounds over the past year,
bringing her down to a weight that is a little high but she's no longer
obese. So far she's voluntarily drinking enough water that fluid
therapy isn't needed.

So, I have a bunch of questions: Should the vet have suggested a
potassium supplement at this point? Is he right that the r/d is better
than just regular food if we can't get her to eat k/d? Is dry k/d
better for her than canned regular SD? (She is just as repelled by the
canned r/d as by the canned k/d, so the canned r/d isn't really a viable
alternative.)

> Also, you might want to start giving him an omega-3 supplement. I recommend
> 3V Caps HP liquid

Does anyone know of a source to purchase potassium, kidney diet food, or
omega-3 supplements online? The Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal
are not available locally, and I'd like to try them.

I'm also a bit concerned about the other cats in the household eating
Smudge's special foods. We are a 4 rescue cat household and two of them
are fairly determined to steal Smudge's food. Fat Buffy is also 9 years
old, and the other two are only a couple of years old. Will their
health be affected adversely as a result of stealing Smudge's diet food?

--
Kathy - If you're reading this in your web browser from Google or
similar forum, NNTP "newsreaders" are a better way to access the
content. <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/how-it-works.html>
Links to NNTP newsreaders at <http://www.newsreaders.com/>

Elizabeth
October 2nd 06, 07:56 PM
Kathy Morgan wrote:
> Does anyone know of a source to purchase potassium, kidney diet food, or
> omega-3 supplements online? The Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal
> are not available locally, and I'd like to try them.
>
> I'm also a bit concerned about the other cats in the household eating
> Smudge's special foods. We are a 4 rescue cat household and two of them
> are fairly determined to steal Smudge's food. Fat Buffy is also 9 years
> old, and the other two are only a couple of years old. Will their
> health be affected adversely as a result of stealing Smudge's diet food?

I looked for an on-line source a couple of weeks ago, when one of my
"old ladies" started having kidney problems. I found a source back
then, but cannot locate it for you today. When I was looking at the
prices a few weeks ago, I did notice that the price/can was not all
that much lower than my local vet, and they had really serious shipping
and handling charges (on the order of $17+ per case of 24 cans).

My low protein kitty (Jasmine) eats Purina NF and Waltham Renal LP
exclusively. My other old-lady cat (Shadow -- the sister of Jasmine)
seems to eat the NF and the LP in preference to her regular food.
Since I had been concerned that she might be beginning to exhibt some
renal disease symptoms herself, I let her eat some of the low-protein
food as she chooses (hoping that the lower protein will help her
kidneys). I acutually give her a spoonful of the low-protein food on
her plate next to her regular food, and she eats whatever appeals to
her that feeding. When we get things straightened out with Jasmine,
I'll take Shadow in for blood work and see if she's showing any blood
symptoms of renal problems.

OTOH, our young male cat (RugRat) would gobble down whatever he could
get of anyone's food, including the Low Protein food. I don't believe
the LP food is good for him, so I try to oversee feeding time to such
an extent that he gets very little (if any) of Jasmine's food. RugRat
is young (just over a year) and still growing to some extent, so I'm
pretty sure he needs the protein.

Rene S.
October 2nd 06, 07:56 PM
>
> Thanks for the info...unfortunately I'm not sure we'll need it. We
> found out today that the constipation he was experiencing which we
> thought was related to the kidney problems turned out to be a tumor in
> his colon. Amazing...in a split second we went from worrying about
> his kidneys to worrying about cancer and wondering if we'll have to
> put him down very soon. We're waiting for ultrasound results to see
> if it spread and will go from there. We just lost his sister 2 months
> ago and now this...it's turning out to be a horrible 2006.

I'm so sorry! How awful. If it is terminal, spoil him like crazy and
let him eat anything he wants. He deserves it.
Hugs and purrs from my household,
Rene

Gail Futoran
October 2nd 06, 09:14 PM
"Kathy Morgan" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote:
>
>> "The Other Mike" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > We recently found out our 16 year old cat has high creatinine and BUN
>> > levels. [...] He just refuses to eat it...tried mixing with regular
>> > food, by itself, different brands...etc to no avail.
>>
>> Try Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal. If he won't eat those, OTC
>> Science Diets have about the best phosphorus levels. If your cat is
>> receiving fluid therapy he should be getting a potassium supplement ~2-4
>> mEq/day.
>
> I'm having similar problems. I have a 9 year old Siamese female Smudge
> who has just been diagnosed with CRF and she just won't touch the canned
> k/d or r/d. (The vet suggested that the r/d would be okay if we just
> can't get her to eat the k/d.) Smudge will eat the dry k/d and
> voluntarily drinks a lot of water. Her previous owner fed her strictly
> cheap dry food on demand; we've been trying for several years to get her
> to eat canned SD food on a twice a day schedule with only limited
> success. Up until this diagnoses she had been eating mostly dry SD
> Senior food, but has been willing to eat small quantities of the SD
> savory cuts in gravy. I've tried mixing a minute portion of k/d canned
> with the savory cuts, with and without dry sprinkles on top, but she
> won't even go near the bowl.
>
> She drinks more water than the other cats and produces a much higher
> volume of urine than the others, which is what led us to have the blood
> tests done. She has also lost a couple of pounds over the past year,
> bringing her down to a weight that is a little high but she's no longer
> obese. So far she's voluntarily drinking enough water that fluid
> therapy isn't needed.
>
> So, I have a bunch of questions: Should the vet have suggested a
> potassium supplement at this point? Is he right that the r/d is better
> than just regular food if we can't get her to eat k/d? Is dry k/d
> better for her than canned regular SD? (She is just as repelled by the
> canned r/d as by the canned k/d, so the canned r/d isn't really a viable
> alternative.)
>
>> Also, you might want to start giving him an omega-3 supplement. I
>> recommend
>> 3V Caps HP liquid
>
> Does anyone know of a source to purchase potassium, kidney diet food, or
> omega-3 supplements online? The Purina NF and Eukanuba Multistage Renal
> are not available locally, and I'd like to try them.
>
> I'm also a bit concerned about the other cats in the household eating
> Smudge's special foods. We are a 4 rescue cat household and two of them
> are fairly determined to steal Smudge's food. Fat Buffy is also 9 years
> old, and the other two are only a couple of years old. Will their
> health be affected adversely as a result of stealing Smudge's diet food?

My senior Burmese female (died at 18+ in 2004) was on a kidney diet for the
last several years of her life. She did like the Hill's K/D, and I
supplemented that with Sensible Choice Senior. I got the K/D from my vet.
The only place I could find the SCS at that time was online at
www.petfooddirect.com . The shipping does add a lot to the cost, but I
considered it worth it to keep my cat alive and healthy a few more years.
(She died, not of CRF, but of congestive heart failure after battling
seizures for years.) I had all good experiences with petfooddirect, and
would buy from them again.

The other point is that I got three young cats while the Burmese was still
alive. They got their own kitten food while they were young, in a place the
elderly cat couldn't get into, but once they were old enough I let them eat
the dry senior food, supplemented with canned adult food. Again, it was
fairly easy to feed them the canned food separately but the dry senior and
prescription food was fair game for everyone. Once the Burmese died, I fed
adult dry food to the other cats.

I did quite a bit of research before I let them eat the senior food and
found nothing negative about feeding younger cats senior food for a period
of time. The young cats are now 6 years old and are quite healthy.

Gail F.
Owned by Lao Ma, Ephiny, Minya, Melosa

Kathy Morgan
October 2nd 06, 09:28 PM
Elizabeth > wrote:

> I looked for an on-line source a couple of weeks ago, when one of my
> "old ladies" started having kidney problems. I found a source back
> then, but cannot locate it for you today. When I was looking at the
> prices a few weeks ago, I did notice that the price/can was not all
> that much lower than my local vet, and they had really serious shipping
> and handling charges (on the order of $17+ per case of 24 cans).

Thanks for the response. If you do happen to locate the site again, I'd
love to have the link. My "local" vet is 200 miles away and doesn't
usually care a huge inventory, so it's going to be hard for me to get
supplies from him regularly--and they carry only Science Diet. Even an
expensive online source of Purina NF and Waltham Renal LP would give me
a chance to find out if Smudge would be willing to eat either. If she
is willing to eat either one, possibly my vet would be willing to stock
it for me.

<sigh> I try to feed my kitties the highest quality food I can get, but
it turns out to be difficult to get sufficient quantities of foods
they're willing to eat. There are three pet stores and one vet in town
who carry the Science Diet and other quality foods, but to get
sufficient quantities to last 4 cats until the next time I make the 200
mile drive, I usually end up having to go to all of them and buy out
every store's entire stock of the varieties the furry ones are willing
to eat.

--
Kathy - If you're reading this in your web browser from Google or
similar forum, NNTP "newsreaders" are a better way to access the
content. <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/how-it-works.html>
Links to NNTP newsreaders at <http://www.newsreaders.com/>

Nancy Vandermey
October 2nd 06, 09:49 PM
I recommend medi-vet.com (http://medi-vet.com/), I get the powder
potassium supplement from them.

Nancy
http://www.wildcatzoo.org/

Kathy Morgan wrote:
> Elizabeth > wrote:
>
>
>>I looked for an on-line source a couple of weeks ago, when one of my
>>"old ladies" started having kidney problems. I found a source back
>>then, but cannot locate it for you today. When I was looking at the
>>prices a few weeks ago, I did notice that the price/can was not all
>>that much lower than my local vet, and they had really serious shipping
>>and handling charges (on the order of $17+ per case of 24 cans).
>
>
> Thanks for the response. If you do happen to locate the site again, I'd
> love to have the link. My "local" vet is 200 miles away and doesn't
> usually care a huge inventory, so it's going to be hard for me to get
> supplies from him regularly--and they carry only Science Diet. Even an
> expensive online source of Purina NF and Waltham Renal LP would give me
> a chance to find out if Smudge would be willing to eat either. If she
> is willing to eat either one, possibly my vet would be willing to stock
> it for me.
>
> <sigh> I try to feed my kitties the highest quality food I can get, but
> it turns out to be difficult to get sufficient quantities of foods
> they're willing to eat. There are three pet stores and one vet in town
> who carry the Science Diet and other quality foods, but to get
> sufficient quantities to last 4 cats until the next time I make the 200
> mile drive, I usually end up having to go to all of them and buy out
> every store's entire stock of the varieties the furry ones are willing
> to eat.
>

The Other Mike
October 3rd 06, 12:50 AM
On 2 Oct 2006 11:56:11 -0700, "Rene S." >
wrote:

>I'm so sorry! How awful. If it is terminal, spoil him like crazy and
>let him eat anything he wants. He deserves it.
>Hugs and purrs from my household,
>Rene

Well, we got the ultrasound results today and so far it looks like the
cancer hasn't spread. So we decided that we'll give surgery a shot
and hopefully have him around for a few more months or maybe with a
little luck a year or so. Still nervous about the surgery and what
they might find once they open him up but at this point we can't put
him down by choice since the only effects we're seeing is the
constipation...if he passes away on the table or it's too bad in there
and they don't wake him up then we're ok with that...at least we
tried. He's been my buddy for 16 years now and while I've had various
pets my whole life, I've never been attached to one this much. My
only concern is that we don't try to hold on too long once he really
starts to go...but we'll worry about that when the time comes.
Thanks for the advice and kind words everyone's given me.

Kathy Morgan
October 3rd 06, 01:21 AM
Nancy Vandermey > wrote:

> I recommend medi-vet.com (http://medi-vet.com/), I get the powder
> potassium supplement from them.

Thanks!

Kathy

Kathy Morgan
October 3rd 06, 01:21 AM
Gail Futoran > wrote:

> My senior Burmese female (died at 18+ in 2004) was on a kidney diet for the
> last several years of her life. She did like the Hill's K/D, and I
> supplemented that with Sensible Choice Senior. I got the K/D from my vet.
> The only place I could find the SCS at that time was online at
> www.petfooddirect.com [...]
>
> I did quite a bit of research before I let them eat the senior food and
> found nothing negative about feeding younger cats senior food for a period
> of time. The young cats are now 6 years old and are quite healthy.

Thanks for the info. I try to monitor the cats at mealtime, but the
boys are so quick to dash over and gobble down Smudge's food that they
regularly succeed in stealing some of it. (I think it's just jealousy
and the idea that she must be getting something better, so they try to
steal it on general principal.) It's reassuring to know that it
probably won't hurt them to get some of it.

--
Kathy - help for new users at <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/>
Good Net Keeping Seal of Approval at <http://www.gnksa.org/>
OE-quotefix can fix OE:
<http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/>

Elizabeth
October 4th 06, 04:39 AM
Kathy Morgan wrote:
> Elizabeth > wrote:
>
> > I looked for an on-line source a couple of weeks ago, when one of my
> > "old ladies" started having kidney problems. I found a source back
> > then, but cannot locate it for you today. When I was looking at the
> > prices a few weeks ago, I did notice that the price/can was not all
> > that much lower than my local vet, and they had really serious shipping
> > and handling charges (on the order of $17+ per case of 24 cans).
>
> Thanks for the response. If you do happen to locate the site again, I'd
> love to have the link.

this was the one I was looking at before. I have no actual experience
with them

http://www.rxpetfood.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=293

http://www.rxpetfood.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=354

The first should take you to Purina NF cans and the second to Waltham
LP pouches.

My "local" vet is 200 miles away and doesn't
> usually care a huge inventory, so it's going to be hard for me to get
> supplies from him regularly--and they carry only Science Diet. Even an
> expensive online source of Purina NF and Waltham Renal LP would give me
> a chance to find out if Smudge would be willing to eat either. If she
> is willing to eat either one, possibly my vet would be willing to stock
> it for me.

Listen, if you contact me on and get me your mailing
info, I'll try to send you a couple of cans of the Purina and a couple
of pouches of the Renal LP to try, before you go to all the expense of
sending for a case of either.

> <sigh> I try to feed my kitties the highest quality food I can get, but
> it turns out to be difficult to get sufficient quantities of foods
> they're willing to eat. There are three pet stores and one vet in town
> who carry the Science Diet and other quality foods, but to get
> sufficient quantities to last 4 cats until the next time I make the 200
> mile drive, I usually end up having to go to all of them and buy out
> every store's entire stock of the varieties the furry ones are willing
> to eat.

wow...I've lived all my life in metro areas. The concept of a "local"
vet being so far away is kinda mind-blowing!

Kathy Morgan
October 5th 06, 07:35 AM
Elizabeth > wrote:

> Listen, if you contact me on and get me your mailing
> info, I'll try to send you a couple of cans of the Purina and a couple
> of pouches of the Renal LP to try, before you go to all the expense of
> sending for a case of either.

Wow, that's a really kind offer! I'll be emailing you separately.

Smudge is willing to eat the dry feline k/d, but she just won't touch
the canned and I know it would be better for her to eat wet food. I
just made a run to town and saw the vet today. They were out of the dry
k/d, but they called a vet down the street who did have some, so I
brought a couple of bags home with me to tide her over until I can find
an appropriate canned food that she's willing to eat.

While I was in town, I returned a radio receiver collar for use with a
pet containment system for a friend's dogs. I was house & dog sitting
for him when the youngest dog slipped his collar off and chewed the
terminals off the receiver, totally destroying it. I bought a
replacement that turned out to be incompatible, so I took it back. The
store was gracious about crediting me for the full amount, even though
I'd damaged the packaging before discovering it wasn't compatible, but I
had to take the credit in the form of other merchandise. I took their
entire stock of the science diet canned food my other 3 furries will
eat, and still had credit to burn, so the lucky boys got a fancy whicker
2-level cat bed and a new carrier.

Now I have an appropriate sized carrier for each of them. I'd
previously had to make one of them use a slightly undersized
carrier--they're all really big. The most recent addition to the house
is a huge rescued neutered tom who most certainly doesn't fit into the
carrier that comfortably carried his predecessor.

It was a really long day, and the 4 kitties got their dinner very late,
but they've forgiven us for the late dinner. In addition to the fancy
whicker bed, I picked up a new container of catnip then went to
OfficeMax and picked up a new lazer pointer. Smudge pretends she can't
see the red dot, but the three boys take turns chasing it until they're
all panting. Since two of them need to eat less and exercise more,
that's a good thing, and we're very careful not to point it so they're
able to look into the light. We wore out the old pointer, so they're
very pleased at having a new one.

--
Kathy - If you're reading this in your web browser from Google or
similar forum, NNTP "newsreaders" are a better way to access the
content. <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/how-it-works.html>
Links to NNTP newsreaders at <http://www.newsreaders.com/>