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see me
October 5th 06, 03:15 AM
The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com

Ryan Robbins
October 5th 06, 04:04 AM
"see me" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
> de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
> Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com

DO NOT DE-CLAW. The procedure is actually amputating part of a cat's foot
and leaves the cat defenseless and unable to grip anything in an emergency.
You need to work with your cat to prevent inappropriate clawing. It's going
to take time and patience.

Judy
October 5th 06, 05:05 AM
"see me" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
> de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?

You can do this to your cat:
http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/

Or use your brain.

When it comes to cats, it's not rocket science when it comes to training
them to scratch in appropriate places.

dgk
October 5th 06, 01:06 PM
On 4 Oct 2006 19:15:12 -0700, "see me" > wrote:

>The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
>de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
>Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com

Declawing is cruel. None of my cats has caused any damage to
furniture, including leather. They do occasionally cause damage to
people but it's inadvertent during play.

There are many ways to train cats to scratch in appropriate places,
the first of which is to get them scratching posts and put catnip on
them.

Catjoy via CatKB.com
October 5th 06, 06:06 PM
Declawing is extremely painful for the cat, and it is inhumane.

www.stopdeclaw.com

I have lived with cats for most of my life, had none of them declawed, and
had/have no problems with any of them. Provide them with a sturdy scratching
post, one long enough for them to stretch up on and scratch. There are
kinder, humane ways to keep kitty from scratching unwanted areas. You can
find a lot of information on such methods by doing a search on the internet.


see me wrote:
>The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
>de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
>Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Edna Pearl
October 6th 06, 06:50 PM
Do not "declaw." It is inhumane and unnecessary.

ep

"see me" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
> de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
> Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com
>

Lina
October 19th 06, 05:03 PM
Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
action.
Lina

On Oct 6, 1:50 pm, "Edna Pearl" >
wrote:
> Do not "declaw." It is inhumane and unnecessary.
>
> ep
>
> "see me" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to
> > de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays?
> > Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Lynne
October 19th 06, 06:43 PM
on Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:03:52 GMT, "Lina" > wrote:

> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.
> Lina

says the person who has no doubt had her cat's joints removed.

Declawing is definitely a surgical procedure. An ELECTIVE surgical
procedure for the convenience of the cat owner. Declawing can and
frequently does result in cats with behavioral (emotional) problems. And
is that any surprise?? It is *definitely* cruel. It's even illegal in
many countries.

- Lynne

tension_on_the_wire
October 19th 06, 06:57 PM
Lina wrote:
> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.
> Lina

Dr. Josef Mengele did many "surgical procedures"
in the concentrations camps, too.

--tension

Edna Pearl
October 19th 06, 09:20 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> Declawing is definitely a surgical procedure. An ELECTIVE surgical
> procedure for the convenience of the cat owner. Declawing can and
> frequently does result in cats with behavioral (emotional) problems. And
> is that any surprise?? It is *definitely* cruel. It's even illegal in
> many countries.

Exactimundo.

I don't see how anybody who has ever SEEN a cat after a claw amputation can
do that to an animal.

But heck, some people routinely cut the ears of puppies of various breeds
into groovy shapes (have you ever SEEN the pathetic little things with the
sticks and stitches in their ears and the yellow goo and the bandages?), so
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by animal cruelty in the guise of human
vanity.

ep

tension_on_the_wire
October 20th 06, 05:36 AM
Edna Pearl wrote:
> Exactimundo.
>
> I don't see how anybody who has ever SEEN a cat after a claw amputation can
> do that to an animal.
>
> But heck, some people routinely cut the ears of puppies of various breeds
> into groovy shapes (have you ever SEEN the pathetic little things with the
> sticks and stitches in their ears and the yellow goo and the bandages?), so
> I guess I shouldn't be surprised by animal cruelty in the guise of human
> vanity.

Do you remember (rhetorically speaking) the days when they
used to crop the tails off of carriage horses? For fashion?!

--tension

-L.
October 20th 06, 09:09 AM
Lina wrote:
> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.

I used to think declawing was ok too. Then I became a vet tech and saw
first-hand how cats suffer from the procedure, and how horrible the
long-term affects can be.

It's extremely cruel. Cats are digitrade - they walk on the tips of
their toes. When the cat is declawed the entire last bone of the paw
is amputated - not just the claw. This causes the cat's weight to be
shifted to the pad of the foot which is complete unnatural for the cat.
It puts stress on the forelegs, shoulders and spine, which usually
causes arthritis in old age. Plus as many as 50% of cats declawed have
complications after the procedure, and almost 20% have long-term
complications.

Never, ever declaw a cat unless the claw is injured and won't heal
properly or is diseased.

http://www.stopdeclaw.com

-L.

-L.
October 20th 06, 09:19 AM
Lina wrote:
> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.
> Lina

This is from Megan's website http://www.stopdeclaw.com. It's a
description of the procedure and the aftermath the next day. I could
have written this, as I witnessed it over 100 times. While we didn't
use surgical glue (we sutured the toes) nothing is more gruesome than a
cat that has degloved its bandages after a declaw surgery. There is
blood *everywhere*, and you can smell it when you walk in the door.
The cat writhes in pain. It's horrible.


**paste**
"It's show time. I hold up one of Fluffy's feet and the doc begins: The
procedure is sort of a half pull, half cut kinda thing. The nail
clippers are doing their best to saw through the joint while the
hemostats are ripping it away. And please make no mistake here, this
isn't a nail trim. A cat's first joint, just like on your finger, is
being ripped out. Fluffy utters a half growl/meow of pain as the joint
tears away, even after all this medicine. The pain must be
excruciating; it is certainly a gruesome spectacle to watch. Doc fills
the gaping socket where Fluffy's toe used to be with some special glue
and squeezes it together for a few seconds. We move on to the next toe
until we're done. Now we bandage and when we're done Fluffy looks as
though he's wearing little mittens...aww.

I come in the next morning and reach for the doorknob to the recovery
room. "Crap!" I think, because the smell hits my brain before I even
open the door to see. Blood has a very specific odor, you see, and
after a while you have the ability to recognize many things: parvo,
cancer, bloody declaw cats that don't seem to like their mittens- all
by their respective smells.

Sure enough, Fluffy got a head start on removing his bandages so I
begin my day scrubbing his blood off the walls, the door, the floor,
and his cage. I clean the blood off Fluffy's fur the best I can and
begin to take off his bandages. I try so hard to be gentle but I know I
still hurt. I have to cut down the bandage until I'm right beside
Fluffy's purple swollen toes and he cries. I examine each hole where
Fluffy used to have claws and make sure they are all still sealed. They
never are, of course. There is invariably at least one or two that must
be reglued, so I sigh and get my glue. Then I drop some goo into
Fluffy's socket and squeeze his tender and bruised deformed little toes
together for several seconds. This hurts. A lot. And I feel like the
scum of the earth. I clean the last bit of blood from Fluffy's feet as
best I can without hurting too bad and hope that Fluffy will finish the
job himself before you come.

You rush in on your lunch hour and I bring out Fluffy and remind you
that Fluffy's feet are going to be very sore for a while. You already
knew that.....bye Fluffy.

Three months later you bring Fluffy in to update his shots. You ask me
why Fluffy doesn't seem like the cat he used to be anymore. He never
wants to play or do much of anything. And he has turned into a biter!
You don't understand, you tell me. Why isn't Fluffy the same? I don't
know why. "

I know why - because Fluffy's life has been changed forever. He used
to be happy, trusting and whole. He is now a ghost of the cat he once
was.

-L.

Matthew
October 20th 06, 06:03 PM
"Lina" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.
> Lina


You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about declawing
and the ignorance of the people that support it
Specially with someone who has never posted here before

Matthew
October 20th 06, 06:08 PM
"Lina" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
> action.
> Lina


You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about declawing
and the ignorance of the people that support it
Specially with someone who has never posted here before

cybercat
October 20th 06, 06:45 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Lina" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
>> action.
>> Lina
>
>
> You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about
> declawing and the ignorance of the people that support it
> Specially with someone who has never posted here before

I feel the same way about the indoor/outdoor issue.

It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED
BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence.
He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard.

But I am just a judgmental tightass who must have my PERIOD or
something.

And if Jupiter, spoiled rotten and raised inside to trust humans, gets
ripped apart by dogs, tortured by a sicko, or hit by a car, Barry would
expect SYMPATHY.

Ugh, ugh, ugh.

I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and
mate.

Matthew
October 20th 06, 06:53 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Lina" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel
>>> action.
>>> Lina
>>
>>
>> You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about
>> declawing and the ignorance of the people that support it
>> Specially with someone who has never posted here before
>
> I feel the same way about the indoor/outdoor issue.
>
> It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED
> BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence.
> He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard.
>
> But I am just a judgmental tightass who must have my PERIOD or
> something.
>
> And if Jupiter, spoiled rotten and raised inside to trust humans, gets
> ripped apart by dogs, tortured by a sicko, or hit by a car, Barry would
> expect SYMPATHY.
>
> Ugh, ugh, ugh.
>
> I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and
> mate.


Barry does every thing for a reason there is a method to his madness. I to
also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there is a
reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw conclusions
till I know both sides. I guess it comes with age
Plus I am tired of all the BS. The trolls I mess with are fun for a while
but they get so predictable that they do get boring

The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove
your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of
your life.

-L.
October 20th 06, 06:57 PM
cybercat wrote:
>
> I feel the same way about the indoor/outdoor issue.

I feel the same way about most of the common issues addressed here.
"My cat's eye ball..."

>
> It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED
> BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence.
> He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard.

She's probably at greater risk of getting knocked up than killed, but I
totally agree.


>
> But I am just a judgmental tightass who must have my PERIOD or
> something.

Ahhh yet. I wish men had to tote around a uterus for a month. It
would shut them up for life.

>
> And if Jupiter, spoiled rotten and raised inside to trust humans, gets
> ripped apart by dogs, tortured by a sicko, or hit by a car, Barry would
> expect SYMPATHY.

He better damn well not. I will excuse Ruprect's death, but not
another.

>
> Ugh, ugh, ugh.
>
> I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and
> mate.

Um, no they shouldn't. Dumb shouldn't breed.

-L.

cybercat
October 20th 06, 06:58 PM
"Matthew" > wrote:
>
> Barry does every thing for a reason there is a method to his madness. I
> to also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there
> is a reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw
> conclusions till I know both sides.

Matthew, right now, I don't give a **** about Barry and his cute little
quirky
personality. I am worried about Jupiter. The kitten he took and raised to
trust
people in his drugged-out inner city neighborhood. I am tired of all the
bull****
too, but particularly of Barry's brand, which is all aimed at excusing his
irresponsibility or incompetence. The only conclusion to draw is that he
is endangering this kitten. The oddball "be free wild thing" philosophy may
be cute as a button to some of you freaks, but it will lose its appeal in
the
presence of a broken and bloody kitten.

dgk
October 20th 06, 07:11 PM
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:53:42 GMT, "Matthew"
> wrote:


>
>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove
>your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of
>your life.
>

Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation
of the last joint.

Matthew
October 20th 06, 07:14 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:53:42 GMT, "Matthew"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to
>>remove
>>your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest
>>of
>>your life.
>>
>
> Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation
> of the last joint.

I was trying to be a little kind

cybercat
October 20th 06, 07:50 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dgk" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:53:42 GMT, "Matthew"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to
>>>remove
>>>your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest
>>>of
>>>your life.
>>>
>>
>> Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation
>> of the last joint.
>
> I was trying to be a little kind
>
Why not save it for those who deserve it?

Matthew
October 20th 06, 07:52 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "dgk" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:53:42 GMT, "Matthew"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to
>>>>remove
>>>>your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest
>>>>of
>>>>your life.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation
>>> of the last joint.
>>
>> I was trying to be a little kind
>>
> Why not save it for those who deserve it?
I was it was for us not the ignorant poster

cybercat
October 20th 06, 07:54 PM
"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>

>> It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED
>> BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence.
>> He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard.
>
> She's probably at greater risk of getting knocked up than killed, but I
> totally agree.
>

And he just casually posts about discovering she has been getting
out, like "haha, isn't she tricky." Then when I get upset about the
danger she is in, he has to make it an ego issue, something about
HIM and criticizing HIM.

**** him.

It is about a little black cat.

He could keep her safe and he is choosing not to.

"The dogs might not come back" is good enough for
Barry.

It tells me something about his character that I will not forget.

This is not a person to be trusted--with ANYTHING.

tension_on_the_wire
October 20th 06, 10:35 PM
Matthew wrote:
> The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove
> your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of
> your life.

You know, Matthew, it isn't even close. I've removed human toenails
for many years, heh, sorry I know that sounds gross, but the only
tissue disrupted is the nail bed which soon heals and carries on.

We do not, however, when we do it, pull out the first bone right
up to the first knuckle.

--tension

-L.
October 20th 06, 11:41 PM
Matthew wrote:
> Barry does every thing for a reason

So do serial murderers.

> there is a method to his madness. I to
> also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there is a
> reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw conclusions
> till I know both sides.

There's absolutely no justification for allowing an intact female to
roam - none.

-L.

Zippy
October 21st 06, 02:07 PM
tension_on_the_wire wrote:
> Matthew wrote:
> > The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove
> > your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of
> > your life.
>
> You know, Matthew, it isn't even close. I've removed human toenails
> for many years, heh, sorry I know that sounds gross, but the only
> tissue disrupted is the nail bed which soon heals and carries on.
>
> We do not, however, when we do it, pull out the first bone right
> up to the first knuckle.
>
> --tension

1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again."
2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed.
3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules
the roost & terrorizes the "girls."
I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. I hope
that after his neutering that he will calm down & stop annoying the
ladies. The growls & fights are awful!
What say you?

cybercat
October 21st 06, 05:32 PM
"Zippy" > wrote
> 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again."
> 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed.
> 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules
> the roost & terrorizes the "girls."
> I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. I hope
> that after his neutering that he will calm down & stop annoying the
> ladies. The growls & fights are awful!
> What say you?
>

Thank you for not declawing him. Like you, I did this to my first cat
and said, "Never again." I was really young and did no know what
it entailed, and when I took her in to get spayed, the vet offered it
like it was nothing. I actually thought just her CLAWS were removed,
meaning the nails only. When I got her back and saw the mutilation I
had allowed I felt sicker than I ever have since.

If you trim your baby boy's claws every month, he should be fine.
Your girls can take care of themselves--they have back claws and
teeth. (In fact, declawed cats tend to become biters--mine did.)
Cats have to work out dominance issues on their own.

If you really think someone might get hurt, you should separate
them, but I don't think there is anything else you can really do.

tension_on_the_wire
October 21st 06, 05:40 PM
Zippy wrote:

> 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again."
> 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed.
> 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules
> the roost & terrorizes the "girls."
> I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. I hope
> that after his neutering that he will calm down & stop annoying the
> ladies. The growls & fights are awful!
> What say you?

No need to do it again, just because of the first two. The odds
are still even, since they are older and experienced and can
look after themselves just fine with him.

Just remember any circumstances with a bratty little brother
and big, sensible older sisters and how *annoyed* they can
be when he torments them as little brothers are wont to do!!
They'll give him whatfor sooner or later and it will all sort itself
out. We are going through that here too...and they always
each find their spot in the pecking order.

Make sure to get him neutered early, that too will hopefully
curb some aggressive tendencies in his behaviour, and it
should be fine at that point.

--tension

22brix
October 21st 06, 05:45 PM
"Zippy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> tension_on_the_wire wrote:
>> Matthew wrote:
>> > The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to
>> > remove
>> > your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the
>> > rest of
>> > your life.
>>
>> You know, Matthew, it isn't even close. I've removed human toenails
>> for many years, heh, sorry I know that sounds gross, but the only
>> tissue disrupted is the nail bed which soon heals and carries on.
>>
>> We do not, however, when we do it, pull out the first bone right
>> up to the first knuckle.
>>
>> --tension
>
> 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again."
> 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed.
> 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules
> the roost & terrorizes the "girls."
> I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. I hope
> that after his neutering that he will calm down & stop annoying the
> ladies. The growls & fights are awful!
> What say you?
>
Neutering should help although he probably should have neutered younger. He
might settle down as he gets older, too. They're pretty wild at that age.
Do you have areas where your other cats can get away from him, at least for
part of the time? I would NOT declaw him--that would be cruel and I don't
think it would help his aggression either.

-L.
October 22nd 06, 09:25 AM
Zippy wrote:
>
> 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again."
> 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed.
> 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules
> the roost & terrorizes the "girls."
> I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed.

Good for you! There is no reason to. Clawed and declawed cats can and
do live together well.

-L.