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View Full Version : Trap, neuter, release roundup


RobZip
October 16th 06, 12:49 PM
The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some surprises,
a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces in the traps
who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.

Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was able
to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!

Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The HS
worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of those
notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to call him
back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he ****ed when he
figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was closed, he lunged at
me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears lowered, hissing and
obviously not happy.

Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really put
up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no matter what
bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on the ground. I
was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly cool about it
until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell broke loose. It
ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his head while
isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of hands to manage
him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the way, and everybody
involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.

Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.

Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the others
being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food out
through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside. After a
few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the trap, where it
could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough, one of them went
for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take the food and
escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure thing - he
went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his brother was in
a carrier too!

The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
transport.
So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last night.
The trapping effort continues today.
Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs will
be treated before they are returned.

This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress the
county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.

krazy
October 16th 06, 01:48 PM
>The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
>The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
>information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some surprises,
>a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces in the traps
>who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>
>Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
>didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
>commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
>still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was able
>to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>
>Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The HS
>worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of those
>notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to call him
>back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he ****ed when he
>figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was closed, he lunged at
>me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears lowered, hissing and
>obviously not happy.
>
>Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really put
>up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no matter what
>bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on the ground. I
>was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly cool about it
>until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell broke loose. It
>ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his head while
>isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of hands to manage
>him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the way, and everybody
>involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>
>Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
>accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
>into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
>carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>
>Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
>bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
>right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the others
>being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food out
>through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside. After a
>few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the trap, where it
>could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough, one of them went
>for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take the food and
>escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure thing - he
>went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his brother was in
>a carrier too!
>
>The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
>very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
>before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
>This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
>transport.
>So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last night.
>The trapping effort continues today.
>Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
>positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs will
>be treated before they are returned.
>
>This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress the
>county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.
>


Very good. Too bad you could not find homes for some of the younger
kittens / cats.

Wendy
October 16th 06, 02:30 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
...
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
> The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
> information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some
> surprises, a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces
> in the traps who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>
> Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
> didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
> commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
> still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was
> able to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>
> Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The
> HS worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of
> those notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to
> call him back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he
> ****ed when he figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was
> closed, he lunged at me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears
> lowered, hissing and obviously not happy.
>
> Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really
> put up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no
> matter what bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on
> the ground. I was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly
> cool about it until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell
> broke loose. It ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his
> head while isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of
> hands to manage him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the
> way, and everybody involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>
> Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
> accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
> into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
> carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>
> Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
> bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
> right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the
> others being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food
> out through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside.
> After a few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the
> trap, where it could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough,
> one of them went for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take
> the food and escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure
> thing - he went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his
> brother was in a carrier too!
>
> The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
> very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
> before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
> This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
> transport.
> So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last
> night. The trapping effort continues today.
> Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
> positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs
> will be treated before they are returned.
>
> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future
> efforts.
>

Go You!

Must be a good weekend for trapping. We got 4 males that have been eluding
us all summer. We had to trap overnight to get two of them and then the
other two wandered into the traps during the day. We've been after some
kittens but have found that our kitten traps aren't working properly. The
little guys ate well this weekend but are unfortunately still out there.

I'm hoping the possum we caught took notes and will avoid the trap in the
future.

I've got two out back in traps now to take over to the vet this afternoon
for surgery tomorrow.

Glad we got these guys now. It's supposed to rain all week here. I think the
other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again today when she
goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the weekend.

W

Lynne
October 16th 06, 05:51 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in
:

>
> "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will
>> impress the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for
>> future efforts.
>>
> Glad we got these guys now. It's supposed to rain all week here. I
> think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again
> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over
> the weekend.
>
> W
>
>

I am VERY impressed with this work! (This morning especially, since I
couldn't get my 3 year old into his carrier for the first time ever, and
I had the wonderful adventure of driving him to the vet while he was
loose in the car.)

--
"Lynne" lover of mutts and feral kitties

RobZip
October 16th 06, 06:18 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I'm hoping the possum we caught took notes and will avoid the trap in the
> future.

Oooohh. Don't count on it. Possum be dumb like an old red brick. I was
trying to trap a sick cat a few years back and the same darned possum got in
the trap 3 days in a row.

RobZip
October 16th 06, 06:27 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again
> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the
> weekend.

There is a bit of a dilemma here with the sheer number of cats involved and
so many of them looking alike. I'm told that the ones being returned will
have a small dot of orange paint placed between their ears so they can be
easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial trapping
session.

Gail Futoran
October 16th 06, 07:18 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again
>> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the
>> weekend.
>
> There is a bit of a dilemma here with the sheer number of cats involved
> and so many of them looking alike. I'm told that the ones being returned
> will have a small dot of orange paint placed between their ears so they
> can be easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial
> trapping session.

A local TNR group (the source of my newest two babies!) puts a notch in a
cat's ear (either right or left, I can't recall which side, but a specific
side) which tells them the cat has been tested, vaccinated, neutered/spayed.
That's something that won't wear off.

BTW if they consider a cat or kitten adoptable, they don't do the notching.
The two I just adopted (Jasper & Jasmine) have both ears intact. :)

Gail F.
Owned by Lao Ma, Ephiny, Minya, Melosa
and the rescue babies: Jasper & Jasmine (names might change)

Magic Mood JeepŠ
October 16th 06, 07:18 PM
In ,
RobZip purred:
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens
>> again today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered
>> over the weekend.
>
> There is a bit of a dilemma here with the sheer number of cats
> involved and so many of them looking alike. I'm told that the ones
> being returned will have a small dot of orange paint placed between
> their ears so they can be easily distinguished from ones that may be
> missed in this initial trapping session.

Even better than orange paint (which wears off as fur falls out & new grows
in) is ear-tipping. A 1/2 to 1 inch portion of the tip of one ear (the
standard seems to be the left) is snipped off while the feral cat is still
under anesthesia, so that one can tell sterilized ferals from those that are
still breeders. this helps avoid the re-trapping of sterilized ferals, and
performing an unnecessary op (referring to females here).

Wendy
October 16th 06, 07:27 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again
>> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the
>> weekend.
>
> There is a bit of a dilemma here with the sheer number of cats involved
> and so many of them looking alike. I'm told that the ones being returned
> will have a small dot of orange paint placed between their ears so they
> can be easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial
> trapping session.
>

The ones done at the spay day over the weekend have their ears tipped. The
ones our vet does get notched but the notch is so small as to be almost
useless. Fortunately some are unique colors or color patterns so we
recognize them when we see them. We had a calico in the trap Sunday morning
that we had spayed back in the spring. She was as calm as could be and
almost looked like she knew she'd get released so it was worth a while in
the trap for the good, smelly food.

We finally trapped out 'tattle tale' cat. The one night it looked like he
was sitting out by the trap warning off all the others. We didn't get anyone
that night thanks to him. Ditz walked right into the trap himself yesterday
afternoon.

W

Edna Pearl
October 16th 06, 07:30 PM
That's awesome. I was just recently reading about the local TNR program in
the vet's office the other day. I think my family used to BE the TNR
program in this community before TNR had a name, when the community was
smaller. We grew up on a farm (which is now divided up amongst us kids), we
love cats, and ferals tend to accumulate (and reproduce, if we don't get to
them first) around the farm. During some seasons, my brother brings
grunches of them to the local humane society for a voucher and then on to
the vet. Then we have the joy of watching them playing in the gardens and
barns, like exceptionally beautiful wildlife, especially in the evenings.
(Our domesticated indoor cats sit on the windowsills and get excited -- it's
like prime time TV for the indoor kitties.)

We name some of them, and refer to them collectively as "the runtbrains."
(Not very nice, I guess, but an apt description of their goofy antics.) If
a newcomer has a litter, we try to get homes for the babies at the right
time, but it's kind of like there's a window of opportunity, where you want
the mama cat taking care of them for the appropriate length of time, and you
don't want to bother the mama too much during that process, then once
they're weaned you have to get them used to people before they go
irretrievably feral. My brother (next door) is really good at it, but it
takes a lot of attention and understanding that I can't muster the time for.
We joke that my brother and sister-in-law run a "cat farm." People who want
a cat know to come to him and ask, "You got any spare cats at the moment?"
I got two of my three that way -- and they are beauties. (My third cat was
a dumping victim that somebody rescued from the middle of the street in town
and took to my vet's office on a day when I happened to come in. She didn't
spend enough time with her mother before she was dumped, so she's got some
behavioral and health problems, but I'd swear that as a result of her rescue
she is the personification (felinification?) of gratitude for simple
pleasures.

It's great that TNR is so organized now in so many communities.

ep

"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
...
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
> The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
> information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some
> surprises, a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces
> in the traps who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>
> Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
> didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
> commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
> still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was
> able to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>
> Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The
> HS worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of
> those notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to
> call him back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he
> ****ed when he figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was
> closed, he lunged at me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears
> lowered, hissing and obviously not happy.
>
> Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really
> put up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no
> matter what bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on
> the ground. I was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly
> cool about it until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell
> broke loose. It ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his
> head while isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of
> hands to manage him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the
> way, and everybody involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>
> Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
> accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
> into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
> carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>
> Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
> bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
> right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the
> others being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food
> out through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside.
> After a few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the
> trap, where it could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough,
> one of them went for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take
> the food and escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure
> thing - he went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his
> brother was in a carrier too!
>
> The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
> very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
> before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
> This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
> transport.
> So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last
> night. The trapping effort continues today.
> Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
> positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs
> will be treated before they are returned.
>
> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future
> efforts.
>

Phil P.
October 16th 06, 08:25 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
...
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
> The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
> information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some
surprises,
> a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces in the traps
> who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>
> Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
> didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
> commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
> still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was
able
> to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>
> Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The
HS
> worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of those
> notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to call him
> back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he ****ed when
he
> figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was closed, he lunged at
> me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears lowered, hissing and
> obviously not happy.
>
> Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really
put
> up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no matter
what
> bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on the ground. I
> was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly cool about it
> until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell broke loose. It
> ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his head while
> isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of hands to
manage
> him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the way, and
everybody
> involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>
> Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
> accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
> into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
> carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>
> Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
> bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
> right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the
others
> being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food out
> through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside. After
a
> few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the trap, where
it
> could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough, one of them went
> for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take the food and
> escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure thing - he
> went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his brother was
in
> a carrier too!
>
> The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
> very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
> before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
> This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
> transport.
> So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last
night.
> The trapping effort continues today.
> Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
> positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs
will
> be treated before they are returned.
>
> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
the
> county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.

Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand!

Phil

Matthew
October 16th 06, 08:42 PM
Hi Phil happy feral cat day

I hope the colonies are doing well :-)

"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
> ...
>> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway
>> yesterday.
>> The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
>> information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some
> surprises,
>> a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces in the
>> traps
>> who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>>
>> Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
>> didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
>> commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker
>> was
>> still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was
> able
>> to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>>
>> Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The
> HS
>> worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of
>> those
>> notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to call him
>> back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he ****ed when
> he
>> figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was closed, he lunged
>> at
>> me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears lowered, hissing and
>> obviously not happy.
>>
>> Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really
> put
>> up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no matter
> what
>> bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on the ground.
>> I
>> was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly cool about it
>> until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell broke loose. It
>> ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his head while
>> isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of hands to
> manage
>> him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the way, and
> everybody
>> involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>>
>> Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone.
>> He
>> accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
>> into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
>> carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>>
>> Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't
>> too
>> bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
>> right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the
> others
>> being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food out
>> through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside.
>> After
> a
>> few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the trap, where
> it
>> could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough, one of them
>> went
>> for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take the food and
>> escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure thing - he
>> went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his brother was
> in
>> a carrier too!
>>
>> The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
>> very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
>> before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my
>> residence.
>> This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
>> transport.
>> So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last
> night.
>> The trapping effort continues today.
>> Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
>> positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs
> will
>> be treated before they are returned.
>>
>> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> the
>> county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.
>
> Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand!
>
> Phil
>
>

Matthew
October 16th 06, 09:05 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
>> the
>>> county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.
>>
>> Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand!
>>
>> Phil
>
> I can't take any credit for this. I'm a resident in the community that was
> targeted for this first TNR. My home also happened to be first priority on
> the list as a source of stray/abandoned/feral cats. Bet ya couldn't see
> that coming, eh? I just jumped in and helped guide the workers based on
> what I know of the various personalities of the animals. Even though
> familiar with how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll
> be right over when I stop bleeding. :)

I remember those days. I invested into Kevlar gloves

RobZip
October 16th 06, 09:07 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> the
>> county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.
>
> Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand!
>
> Phil

I can't take any credit for this. I'm a resident in the community that was
targeted for this first TNR. My home also happened to be first priority on
the list as a source of stray/abandoned/feral cats. Bet ya couldn't see that
coming, eh? I just jumped in and helped guide the workers based on what I
know of the various personalities of the animals. Even though familiar with
how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll be right over
when I stop bleeding. :)

Phil P.
October 16th 06, 10:04 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> > the
> >> county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts.
> >
> > Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand!
> >
> > Phil
>
> I can't take any credit for this. I'm a resident in the community that was
> targeted for this first TNR. My home also happened to be first priority on
> the list as a source of stray/abandoned/feral cats. Bet ya couldn't see
that
> coming, eh? I just jumped in and helped guide the workers based on what I
> know of the various personalities of the animals. Even though familiar
with
> how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll be right over
> when I stop bleeding. :)

The trapping was so successful because of your intel. If HS went in cold,
they wouldn't have done so well.

Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're
socialized-- They're actually mushes.

http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CharlieChelseyCricket.jpg

http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC_Turbo.jpg

Phil P.
October 16th 06, 10:04 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
. ..

> I remember those days. I invested into Kevlar gloves

Don't lend them out! I lost two pair that way.

P

Phil P.
October 16th 06, 10:05 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi Phil happy feral cat day
>
> I hope the colonies are doing well :-)

They are. Thanks for asking. I'm dreading this winter.

P

RobZip
October 17th 06, 01:36 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> The trapping was so successful because of your intel. If HS went in cold,
> they wouldn't have done so well.
>
This TNR was a joint project between the local non profit humane society, a
local rescue group, and a cat shelter called Cat Haven. There was a man from
Cat Haven here around the first of the month doing a survey of the area and
taking a sort of census. He drove and walked the area for the better part of
an afternoon. Last week, two people from the humane society came through
distributing flyers outlining the TNR operation and what would occur,
instructions for removing food prior to trapping, etc. They also walked the
area and took detailed notes on the cat population and talked to as many
residents as they could. Everybody did their advance work and had a real
solid idea what they were dealing with before the first trap ever hit the
ground. For a first time attempt it seems like they did quite a bit of
research to know how to approach it so well. Pretty impressive.

I was able to point out trails, hangouts, and give info on population for
just 2 of the 10 streets here. It helped some because about 1/3 of the cats
were taken from the property at my residence. The strays that hang out here
are better socialized than most. Still wild as hell, but they tolerate me
enough to be around at close range. My son can sit outside with me and gets
about the same level of tolerance. Probably 80% of mine will sit on the
steps, peek in the door, and run around my feet at close range when I'm
putting food out, even though they don't tolerate being directly approached.
This is a contrast to others in the area that won't even approach food until
several minutes after the last human leaves the area.

RobZip
October 17th 06, 01:43 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're
> socialized-- They're actually mushes.
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CharlieChelseyCricket.jpg
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC_Turbo.jpg
>
Those are some gorgeous kitties. Looks a lot like my clan here.
BTW - the head count on the TNR so far is around 40 cats of all ages.

Rhonda
October 17th 06, 06:17 AM
I'm impressed, Rob. That's a lot of cats! You and the gang are great cat
wranglers.

I hope all did well through the surgeries.

Rhonda

RobZip wrote:
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.

Phil P.
October 17th 06, 08:12 AM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're
> > socialized-- They're actually mushes.
> >
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CharlieChelseyCricket.jpg
> >
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC_Turbo.jpg
> >
> Those are some gorgeous kitties. Looks a lot like my clan here.
> BTW - the head count on the TNR so far is around 40 cats of all ages.

40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how
many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are they
all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great
vets.

This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap
to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico demon
gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
beautiful?

-L.
October 17th 06, 09:17 AM
RobZip wrote:
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
<snip>

Awesome!

-L.

RobZip
October 17th 06, 12:41 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:%n%[email protected]

> 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how
> many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are
> they
> all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great
> vets.

The largest concentration was at my home. I've had a pretty stable number at
around 10 or 11 regulars plus a few recluses that only come in when its very
quiet around here. There was one other small colony that I know of - maybe 5
or so. The rest were spread out remnants of litters here and there, and
several solo adults. There were probably 3 people total working the traps,
one from Cat Haven, two from the Humane Society. I would guesstimate from
what I saw, about 25 traps in use or available. Most of the cats trapped
here were transported in the traps to the locations where the neutering will
be done. After a few escapes early on it was deemed too risky to try
transferring them to carriers. The Humane Society has a few surgery rooms
available and a pretty fair amount of holding space. Angels For Animals
likewise has a surgical suite. I was told the cats would be spread amongst
those two places and some of the local veterinary offices that are helping
out. The one vet I know of that works with HS is my old vet from years back
when he first started his practice - very good doctor and real nice guy. I
don't know how many local vets are involved but it must be at least 3 or 4
of them. This is being written at around 7:30am Tuesday. The cats were to
have their surgery yesterday and today, then be returned. Current weather is
49 degrees with rain forcast until mid afternoon, so it may be well into
tomorrow before my crew comes back.

That's what amazes me - the degree of cooperation between these groups.
There was almost a civil war of sorts within the Humane Society a few years
back that lead to the director being fired. She in turn started Angels For
Animals and continued to be very publicly vocal on her opposition to Humane
Society open shelter policies. She had replaced a director who was in office
during the building of their new facility. That woman was a pure nut case
who elected to go with $20,000 worth of solid oak doors in areas facing
public parts of the facility rather than concentrate the money where it
needed to be spent. The new building went many 10's of thousands of dollars
over budget and caused a serious financial crisis for quite a long time.

A new director came on board at the Humane Society about 2 years ago and
they became a no-kill shelter. Some time after that, a new era of
cooperation between the groups started. In addition to projects like this
TNR, they now alternate being on call for injured animal referral calls from
local law enforcement. It's sad that it took so long to get everybody
pulling in the same direction 'cause the animals suffered for it.
Considering the state of affairs around here over the past several years, I
was quite surprised when all of these groups stepped up in unison to help
deal with this situation. I am not affiliated with any of these
organizations. When they came to my area and announced their plan, I was
wholeheartedly in favor of it. All I had to offer was some information and
an extra pair of hands when it was time to trap. If future TNR projects
depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a no-brainer to
open up the wallets.

>
> This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap
> to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico
> demon
> gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
> beautiful?

Sweet looking little girl. Looks a lot like one I had 20 years ago.

Matthew
October 17th 06, 12:53 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:%n%[email protected]
>
>> 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how
>> many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are
>> they
>> all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great
>> vets.
>
> The largest concentration was at my home. I've had a pretty stable number
> at around 10 or 11 regulars plus a few recluses that only come in when its
> very quiet around here. There was one other small colony that I know of -
> maybe 5 or so. The rest were spread out remnants of litters here and
> there, and several solo adults. There were probably 3 people total working
> the traps, one from Cat Haven, two from the Humane Society. I would
> guesstimate from what I saw, about 25 traps in use or available. Most of
> the cats trapped here were transported in the traps to the locations where
> the neutering will be done. After a few escapes early on it was deemed too
> risky to try transferring them to carriers. The Humane Society has a few
> surgery rooms available and a pretty fair amount of holding space. Angels
> For Animals likewise has a surgical suite. I was told the cats would be
> spread amongst those two places and some of the local veterinary offices
> that are helping out. The one vet I know of that works with HS is my old
> vet from years back when he first started his practice - very good doctor
> and real nice guy. I don't know how many local vets are involved but it
> must be at least 3 or 4 of them. This is being written at around 7:30am
> Tuesday. The cats were to have their surgery yesterday and today, then be
> returned. Current weather is 49 degrees with rain forcast until mid
> afternoon, so it may be well into tomorrow before my crew comes back.
>
> That's what amazes me - the degree of cooperation between these groups.
> There was almost a civil war of sorts within the Humane Society a few
> years back that lead to the director being fired. She in turn started
> Angels For Animals and continued to be very publicly vocal on her
> opposition to Humane Society open shelter policies. She had replaced a
> director who was in office during the building of their new facility. That
> woman was a pure nut case who elected to go with $20,000 worth of solid
> oak doors in areas facing public parts of the facility rather than
> concentrate the money where it needed to be spent. The new building went
> many 10's of thousands of dollars over budget and caused a serious
> financial crisis for quite a long time.
>
> A new director came on board at the Humane Society about 2 years ago and
> they became a no-kill shelter. Some time after that, a new era of
> cooperation between the groups started. In addition to projects like this
> TNR, they now alternate being on call for injured animal referral calls
> from local law enforcement. It's sad that it took so long to get everybody
> pulling in the same direction 'cause the animals suffered for it.
> Considering the state of affairs around here over the past several years,
> I was quite surprised when all of these groups stepped up in unison to
> help deal with this situation. I am not affiliated with any of these
> organizations. When they came to my area and announced their plan, I was
> wholeheartedly in favor of it. All I had to offer was some information
> and an extra pair of hands when it was time to trap. If future TNR
> projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a
> no-brainer to open up the wallets.
>

Easier said than done for some reason getting the public to help animals
can be very difficult. We did fund raisers all the time even when I was
backing the shelters I used to be involved with till the political bull****
happened here in Florida.

If you ever need any ideas or places where to get things to sell ask. I
have a lot

Rob from animals lovers We salute you

sending you a pat on the back and a handshake



>> This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a
>> drop-trap
>> to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico
>> demon
>> gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
>> beautiful?
>
> Sweet looking little girl. Looks a lot like one I had 20 years ago.
>

RobZip
October 17th 06, 01:40 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...ation
>> If future TNR projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it
>> should be a no-brainer to open up the wallets.
>>
>
> Easier said than done for some reason getting the public to help animals
> can be very difficult. We did fund raisers all the time even when I was
> backing the shelters I used to be involved with till the political
> bull**** happened here in Florida.

It seems they have some source of funding in the works. Since it is most
likely a private source, they obviously aren't going to disclose any info
regarding who or how much. Fine by me.
I lived in Jacksonville for 9 years and another 2 years in the Tampa area.
Florida and political BS are almost synonymous aren't they?

22brix
October 17th 06, 02:32 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:%n%[email protected]
> This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap
> to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico
> demon
> gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
> beautiful?
>
>

She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got some
beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as well.

22brix
October 17th 06, 02:36 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
...
> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday.
> The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect
> information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some
> surprises, a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces
> in the traps who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously.
>
> Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I
> didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human
> commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was
> still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was
> able to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one!
>
> Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The
> HS worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of
> those notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to
> call him back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he
> ****ed when he figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was
> closed, he lunged at me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears
> lowered, hissing and obviously not happy.
>
> Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really
> put up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no
> matter what bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on
> the ground. I was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly
> cool about it until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell
> broke loose. It ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his
> head while isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of
> hands to manage him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the
> way, and everybody involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm.
>
> Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He
> accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded
> into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the
> carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille.
>
> Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too
> bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost
> right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the
> others being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food
> out through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside.
> After a few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the
> trap, where it could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough,
> one of them went for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take
> the food and escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure
> thing - he went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his
> brother was in a carrier too!
>
> The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always
> very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here
> before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence.
> This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for
> transport.
> So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last
> night. The trapping effort continues today.
> Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing
> positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs
> will be treated before they are returned.
>
> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress
> the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future
> efforts.
>
That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR
here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over
the years but nothing on that scale.

RobZip
October 17th 06, 03:17 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
> That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR
> here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over
> the years but nothing on that scale.

There are about 5 right now that are adoptable as is. Bubbles was born under
my home as was his brother Spook. Bubbles runs inside at every opportunity.
Spook is a bit aloof but would calm down quickly if kept inside. Both know
the food bowl and litterbox well.

Mr. Jingles is a huge orange tom that used to be an owned cat. When he first
showed up here, he was wearing a blue collar with vet and ID tags on it. A
few weeks later he no longer had the collar. Kids in the area tell me his
owner moved away and left him behind. After he got repeated calls about his
cat being found, he returned and took the collar off. Jingles bluffs a lot
with his growling, but is a big sap for attention and food.

Another little orange cat has about 4 names depending on who you talk to. We
call him BoBo. He showed up in the spring at around 12 - 14 weeks old, fully
socialized. He was obviously a pet that was dumped. He's too smart for his
own good and fears nothing. At around 9 months old now, he's roughly the
size of a 5 month old kitten. He will sit on my top step raised up on
haunches, prairie dog style, and survey the area.

We have a recent arrival I call Jaws - he talks constantly. He's another
abandoned pet, a dark tabby male approximately 1 yr. old, already neutered.
He is very eager to demonstrate his household skills. My wife is trying very
hard to dislike him so she won't get too attached. She has a weakness for
lap kitties and this guy knows the human lap as a great tool of influence.
He has the peculiar habit of chasing my fingers around the keyboard as I
type. He's also followed me out to my van 3 times now and climbed in for a
ride. He curls up on the passenger seat and seems to enjoy it.

Some of the younger kittens could probably be tamed really well if somebody
works at it. When the litter of 4 showed up, they would scatter if the door
opened. Now they will come up on the steps and play with a cat tease whip
with any of us. Two of them have actually walked inside for a quick look
around, then scampered back out. The same two will play with my fingers
under the bottom of the storm door when it is held open a few inches. They
constantly peek inside. Two males, one female - not sure on the 4th one.

Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the
oldest, wildest, and most wary of them.

22brix
October 17th 06, 03:20 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR
>> here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over
>> the years but nothing on that scale.
>
> There are about 5 right now that are adoptable as is. Bubbles was born
> under my home as was his brother Spook. Bubbles runs inside at every
> opportunity. Spook is a bit aloof but would calm down quickly if kept
> inside. Both know the food bowl and litterbox well.
>
> Mr. Jingles is a huge orange tom that used to be an owned cat. When he
> first showed up here, he was wearing a blue collar with vet and ID tags on
> it. A few weeks later he no longer had the collar. Kids in the area tell
> me his owner moved away and left him behind. After he got repeated calls
> about his cat being found, he returned and took the collar off. Jingles
> bluffs a lot with his growling, but is a big sap for attention and food.
>
> Another little orange cat has about 4 names depending on who you talk to.
> We call him BoBo. He showed up in the spring at around 12 - 14 weeks old,
> fully socialized. He was obviously a pet that was dumped. He's too smart
> for his own good and fears nothing. At around 9 months old now, he's
> roughly the size of a 5 month old kitten. He will sit on my top step
> raised up on haunches, prairie dog style, and survey the area.
>
> We have a recent arrival I call Jaws - he talks constantly. He's another
> abandoned pet, a dark tabby male approximately 1 yr. old, already
> neutered. He is very eager to demonstrate his household skills. My wife is
> trying very hard to dislike him so she won't get too attached. She has a
> weakness for lap kitties and this guy knows the human lap as a great tool
> of influence. He has the peculiar habit of chasing my fingers around the
> keyboard as I type. He's also followed me out to my van 3 times now and
> climbed in for a ride. He curls up on the passenger seat and seems to
> enjoy it.
>
> Some of the younger kittens could probably be tamed really well if
> somebody works at it. When the litter of 4 showed up, they would scatter
> if the door opened. Now they will come up on the steps and play with a cat
> tease whip with any of us. Two of them have actually walked inside for a
> quick look around, then scampered back out. The same two will play with my
> fingers under the bottom of the storm door when it is held open a few
> inches. They constantly peek inside. Two males, one female - not sure on
> the 4th one.
>
> Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the
> oldest, wildest, and most wary of them.
>
That's wonderful! You've done a great thing. We have a feral now who we
neutered a year or two ago that has started following me around outside,
talking the entire time. He's wary of me and won't let me touch him but
seems to like my dog just fine, actually coming up to her and sniffing her
nose. I'm pretty sure he was "pre-owned" but he's just not quite ready to
trust humans yet. Like your wife I don't want to get too involved, already
having 7 indoors but he's growing on me all the time!

Lynne
October 17th 06, 03:22 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in
:

>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR
>> here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here
>> over the years but nothing on that scale.
>
> There are about 5 right now that are adoptable as is. Bubbles was born
> under my home as was his brother Spook. Bubbles runs inside at every
> opportunity. Spook is a bit aloof but would calm down quickly if kept
> inside. Both know the food bowl and litterbox well.
>
> Mr. Jingles is a huge orange tom that used to be an owned cat. When he
> first showed up here, he was wearing a blue collar with vet and ID
> tags on it. A few weeks later he no longer had the collar. Kids in the
> area tell me his owner moved away and left him behind. After he got
> repeated calls about his cat being found, he returned and took the
> collar off. Jingles bluffs a lot with his growling, but is a big sap
> for attention and food.
>
> Another little orange cat has about 4 names depending on who you talk
> to. We call him BoBo. He showed up in the spring at around 12 - 14
> weeks old, fully socialized. He was obviously a pet that was dumped.
> He's too smart for his own good and fears nothing. At around 9 months
> old now, he's roughly the size of a 5 month old kitten. He will sit on
> my top step raised up on haunches, prairie dog style, and survey the
> area.
>
> We have a recent arrival I call Jaws - he talks constantly. He's
> another abandoned pet, a dark tabby male approximately 1 yr. old,
> already neutered. He is very eager to demonstrate his household
> skills. My wife is trying very hard to dislike him so she won't get
> too attached. She has a weakness for lap kitties and this guy knows
> the human lap as a great tool of influence. He has the peculiar habit
> of chasing my fingers around the keyboard as I type. He's also
> followed me out to my van 3 times now and climbed in for a ride. He
> curls up on the passenger seat and seems to enjoy it.
>
> Some of the younger kittens could probably be tamed really well if
> somebody works at it. When the litter of 4 showed up, they would
> scatter if the door opened. Now they will come up on the steps and
> play with a cat tease whip with any of us. Two of them have actually
> walked inside for a quick look around, then scampered back out. The
> same two will play with my fingers under the bottom of the storm door
> when it is held open a few inches. They constantly peek inside. Two
> males, one female - not sure on the 4th one.
>
> Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the
> oldest, wildest, and most wary of them.

You are a lovely person. Truly.

How anyone can abandon a pet cat is beyond my comprehension...

--
"Lynne" lover of mutts and feral kitties

RobZip
October 17th 06, 07:09 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
>
> You are a lovely person. Truly.

Thanks... 'Guess it depends on who you ask around here though.
>
> How anyone can abandon a pet cat is beyond my comprehension...

I've got one here that I know was abandoned and two more that I strongly
suspect were. I

RobZip
October 17th 06, 07:19 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> That's wonderful! You've done a great thing.

Once again, I haven't done anything - just a little hands on help when the
project got underway.

>We have a feral now who we neutered a year or two ago that has started
>following me around outside, talking the entire time. He's wary of me and
>won't let me touch him but seems to like my dog just fine, actually coming
>up to her and sniffing her nose. I'm pretty sure he was "pre-owned" but
>he's just not quite ready to trust humans yet.

I wonder how many actually will recover trust once something like
abandonment happens? Ol' Jaws is proof that they do - but then again, he was
fairly recently abandoned too. 'Hasn't had enough hardships behind him to
make him to make him tough yet.

Matthew
October 17th 06, 08:01 PM
Tell me about It I live near Orlando, Florida :-(


"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> ...ation
>>> If future TNR projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it
>>> should be a no-brainer to open up the wallets.
>>>
>>
>> Easier said than done for some reason getting the public to help animals
>> can be very difficult. We did fund raisers all the time even when I was
>> backing the shelters I used to be involved with till the political
>> bull**** happened here in Florida.
>
> It seems they have some source of funding in the works. Since it is most
> likely a private source, they obviously aren't going to disclose any info
> regarding who or how much. Fine by me.
> I lived in Jacksonville for 9 years and another 2 years in the Tampa area.
> Florida and political BS are almost synonymous aren't they?
>

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 01:41 AM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:%n%[email protected]
>
> > 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and
how
> > many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are
> > they
> > all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great
> > vets.
>
> The largest concentration was at my home. I've had a pretty stable number
at
> around 10 or 11 regulars plus a few recluses that only come in when its
very
> quiet around here. There was one other small colony that I know of - maybe
5
> or so. The rest were spread out remnants of litters here and there, and
> several solo adults. There were probably 3 people total working the traps,
> one from Cat Haven, two from the Humane Society. I would guesstimate from
> what I saw, about 25 traps in use or available. Most of the cats trapped
> here were transported in the traps to the locations where the neutering
will
> be done. After a few escapes early on it was deemed too risky to try
> transferring them to carriers. The Humane Society has a few surgery rooms
> available and a pretty fair amount of holding space. Angels For Animals
> likewise has a surgical suite. I was told the cats would be spread amongst
> those two places and some of the local veterinary offices that are helping
> out. The one vet I know of that works with HS is my old vet from years
back
> when he first started his practice - very good doctor and real nice guy. I
> don't know how many local vets are involved but it must be at least 3 or 4
> of them. This is being written at around 7:30am Tuesday. The cats were to
> have their surgery yesterday and today, then be returned. Current weather
is
> 49 degrees with rain forcast until mid afternoon, so it may be well into
> tomorrow before my crew comes back.
>
> That's what amazes me - the degree of cooperation between these groups.
> There was almost a civil war of sorts within the Humane Society a few
years
> back that lead to the director being fired. She in turn started Angels For
> Animals and continued to be very publicly vocal on her opposition to
Humane
> Society open shelter policies. She had replaced a director who was in
office
> during the building of their new facility. That woman was a pure nut case
> who elected to go with $20,000 worth of solid oak doors in areas facing
> public parts of the facility rather than concentrate the money where it
> needed to be spent. The new building went many 10's of thousands of
dollars
> over budget and caused a serious financial crisis for quite a long time.
>
> A new director came on board at the Humane Society about 2 years ago and
> they became a no-kill shelter. Some time after that, a new era of
> cooperation between the groups started. In addition to projects like this
> TNR, they now alternate being on call for injured animal referral calls
from
> local law enforcement. It's sad that it took so long to get everybody
> pulling in the same direction 'cause the animals suffered for it.
> Considering the state of affairs around here over the past several years,
I
> was quite surprised when all of these groups stepped up in unison to help
> deal with this situation. I am not affiliated with any of these
> organizations. When they came to my area and announced their plan, I was
> wholeheartedly in favor of it. All I had to offer was some information
and
> an extra pair of hands when it was time to trap. If future TNR projects
> depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a no-brainer
to
> open up the wallets.


Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the
County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups got
the job done.

One of the counties in California- I think it was Santa Clara or Santa Ana-
did a cost comparison, awhile back- about 10 years ago, between TNR and
trap, hold and kill. The cost of TNR per cat was about $50 whereas THK then
was about $75- times a few thousand offspring. The numbers made sense and
raised a few eyebrows. I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone. Usually
the only language bureaucrats understand is money.

My County's shelter is heading for some changes, too- for the better- come
election day.

Keep me posted on the progress of the project- I love to hear success
stories.

Phil

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 02:03 AM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:%n%[email protected]
> > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a
drop-trap
> > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico
> > demon
> > gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
> > beautiful?
> >
> >
>
> She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got some
> beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as
well.

The three kittens' mother was hit by car right in front of them. Now
they're inseparable. If I take one out of the room the others cry until
he's back. Its going to rough finding someone who will adopt 3 kittens.

I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister
http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a
basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for the
next 6 months.

http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie+Fanny_scratch_814.jpg
http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/F+F+plat-post.jpg

What can I say? I'm a mush for the hard luck cases.

Phil

22brix
October 18th 06, 05:16 AM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> That's wonderful! You've done a great thing.
>
> Once again, I haven't done anything - just a little hands on help when the
> project got underway.
>
>>We have a feral now who we neutered a year or two ago that has started
>>following me around outside, talking the entire time. He's wary of me and
>>won't let me touch him but seems to like my dog just fine, actually coming
>>up to her and sniffing her nose. I'm pretty sure he was "pre-owned" but
>>he's just not quite ready to trust humans yet.
>
> I wonder how many actually will recover trust once something like
> abandonment happens? Ol' Jaws is proof that they do - but then again, he
> was fairly recently abandoned too. 'Hasn't had enough hardships behind him
> to make him to make him tough yet.
>
Our feral (Zorro for the scars on his face) has actually started acting
friendlier over the last 3 or 4 months. I think it took him awhile to
forgive me for trapping him! I've seen some cats that seem almost pitifully
grateful that someone has taken them in so some do learn to trust again.
Most of my cats are rescues and I just get so angry when people treat them
like disposables.

22brix
October 18th 06, 05:17 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:%n%[email protected]
>> > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a
> drop-trap
>> > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico
>> > demon
>> > gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
>> > beautiful?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got
>> some
>> beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as
> well.
>
> The three kittens' mother was hit by car right in front of them. Now
> they're inseparable. If I take one out of the room the others cry until
> he's back. Its going to rough finding someone who will adopt 3 kittens.
>
> I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a
> basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for the
> next 6 months.
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie+Fanny_scratch_814.jpg
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/F+F+plat-post.jpg
>
> What can I say? I'm a mush for the hard luck cases.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
Those cats are lucky you're taking care of them!

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 02:20 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> Our feral (Zorro for the scars on his face) has actually started acting
> friendlier over the last 3 or 4 months. I think it took him awhile to
> forgive me for trapping him! I've seen some cats that seem almost
pitifully
> grateful that someone has taken them in so some do learn to trust again.


I think you're right. I trapped one of my ferals on a cold and rainy
November night. After I got her inside I put her near a heating register
and bent a piece a cardboard around the cage to make a cove to hold the heat
in so she'd warm up quickly. It didn't take very long for her to trust me.
It really seemed like she realized I was helping her. It took a few months
before she would venture out into the outdoor pen- it seemed like she was
afraid she wouldn't be able to get back in. A few years later, she was a
complete mush.


> Most of my cats are rescues and I just get so angry when people treat them
> like disposables.

Tell me about it. You wouldn't believe some of the utterly stupid reasons
people have given me for surrending their pets. A lot of people in my
position try to talk the people into keeping their cat or dog. Not me! I
want to get the animal away from them as soon as possible because they'll
only end up disposing of the animal- possibly cruelly- later.

Phil

RobZip
October 18th 06, 03:12 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the
> County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups
> got
> the job done.

I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen
County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off donations
and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the salary of
the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.

> I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
> you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
> Usually
> the only language bureaucrats understand is money.

Please do.

RobZip
October 18th 06, 03:26 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a
> basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for the
> next 6 months.

The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival here,
Jaws! Jaws is being very persistent about adopting us. I figure that over
time my wife will simply run out of air on the subject and accept him being
here. I put him outside in the early morning hours just so she can share the
joy when he squeezes past her feet to get back inside as she leaves for
work.

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 04:21 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "22brix" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> news:%n%[email protected]
> >> > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a
> > drop-trap
> >> > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the
Calico
> >> > demon
> >> > gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she
> >> > beautiful?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got
> >> some
> >> beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as
> > well.
> >
> > The three kittens' mother was hit by car right in front of them. Now
> > they're inseparable. If I take one out of the room the others cry until
> > he's back. Its going to rough finding someone who will adopt 3 kittens.
> >
> > I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in
a
> > basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for
the
> > next 6 months.
> >
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie+Fanny_scratch_814.jpg
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/F+F+plat-post.jpg
> >
> > What can I say? I'm a mush for the hard luck cases.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> Those cats are lucky you're taking care of them!


The way I see it- I'm the lucky one because they've enriched my life so
much!

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 06:18 PM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the
> > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups
> > got
> > the job done.
>
> I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen
> County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off
donations
> and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the salary
of
> the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.
>
> > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
> > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
> > Usually
> > the only language bureaucrats understand is money.
>
> Please do.


Its on the way.

Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg

Matthew
October 18th 06, 07:00 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever
>> > the
>> > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your
>> > groups
>> > got
>> > the job done.
>>
>> I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen
>> County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off
> donations
>> and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the salary
> of
>> the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.
>>
>> > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
>> > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
>> > Usually
>> > the only language bureaucrats understand is money.
>>
>> Please do.
>
>
> Its on the way.
>
> Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
>


Oh Phil I am so sorry

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 07:30 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever
> >> > the
> >> > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your
> >> > groups
> >> > got
> >> > the job done.
> >>
> >> I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen
> >> County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off
> > donations
> >> and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the
salary
> > of
> >> the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.
> >>
> >> > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
> >> > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
> >> > Usually
> >> > the only language bureaucrats understand is money.
> >>
> >> Please do.
> >
> >
> > Its on the way.
> >
> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
> >
>
>
> Oh Phil I am so sorry

Why are you sorry, Mat? All three kittens tested *negative* for FeLV and
FIV. The single blue dot is only the positive control- it shows that the
test was run properly.

What I don't want to see are any blue dots just below and on either side of
the positive control.

Phil

Matthew
October 18th 06, 07:40 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
>> > .. .
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]
>> >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever
>> >> > the
>> >> > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your
>> >> > groups
>> >> > got
>> >> > the job done.
>> >>
>> >> I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of
>> >> Allen
>> >> County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off
>> > donations
>> >> and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the
> salary
>> > of
>> >> the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.
>> >>
>> >> > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
>> >> > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
>> >> > Usually
>> >> > the only language bureaucrats understand is money.
>> >>
>> >> Please do.
>> >
>> >
>> > Its on the way.
>> >
>> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
>> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
>> >
>>
>>
>> Oh Phil I am so sorry
>
> Why are you sorry, Mat? All three kittens tested *negative* for FeLV and
> FIV. The single blue dot is only the positive control- it shows that the
> test was run properly.
>
> What I don't want to see are any blue dots just below and on either side
> of
> the positive control.
>
> Phil
>
>
Sorry Phil the color did not show up good on my end. For some reason must
be my contrast it showed reddish

Foot in mouth taking it out knocking monitor back into proper shape

HAPPY DANCE

Wendy
October 18th 06, 09:54 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "RobZip" <no > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever
>> > the
>> > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your
>> > groups
>> > got
>> > the job done.
>>
>> I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen
>> County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off
> donations
>> and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the salary
> of
>> the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does.
>>
>> > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like-
>> > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone.
>> > Usually
>> > the only language bureaucrats understand is money.
>>
>> Please do.
>
>
> Its on the way.
>
> Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
> http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
>
>

:o) I like those kind of pictures.

W

Phil P.
October 19th 06, 11:42 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
> >
> >
>
> :o) I like those kind of pictures.
>
> W

I gotta admit I was sweating bullets while I was running the test because
the kittens came from an area near a colony that had a few positives. I
waited an extra two weeks to run the test to make sure they weren't
incubating the virus.

I should know better than to get attached to fosters- but these little guys
really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight.

Wendy
October 20th 06, 11:53 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
>> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
>> >
>> >
>>
>> :o) I like those kind of pictures.
>>
>> W
>
> I gotta admit I was sweating bullets while I was running the test because
> the kittens came from an area near a colony that had a few positives. I
> waited an extra two weeks to run the test to make sure they weren't
> incubating the virus.
>
> I should know better than to get attached to fosters- but these little
> guys
> really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight.
>
>

I know that feeling. I got my little one who had the terrible diarrhea
tested last weekend. It would have killed me after getting him healthy to
find he was positive. Happily he was negative and got adopted.

What is the youngest age you test your kittens? I've gotten conflicting info
from different vets and the one the rescue group uses doesn't like to test
younger than 14 weeks.

W

Phil P.
October 20th 06, 02:35 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >> >
> >> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
> >> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> :o) I like those kind of pictures.
> >>
> >> W
> >
> > I gotta admit I was sweating bullets while I was running the test
because
> > the kittens came from an area near a colony that had a few positives. I
> > waited an extra two weeks to run the test to make sure they weren't
> > incubating the virus.
> >
> > I should know better than to get attached to fosters- but these little
> > guys
> > really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight.
> >
> >
>
> I know that feeling. I got my little one who had the terrible diarrhea
> tested last weekend.

This is a picture of what one of the kittens was carrying around -- Warning:
its gross! http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Crickets_passengers.jpg


It would have killed me after getting him healthy to
> find he was positive. Happily he was negative and got adopted.

I rescued a cat about 20 years ago- a few years after the IFA was developed-
that I fell completely in love with. He was one big furball of mush. I
took a special interest in him because he was so damn affectionate and had a
very bad eye infection- that I immediately began treating aggressively. I
kept him isolated because of his eye. By the time I got around to getting
him tested a few weeks later- he had a firm grip on my heart. When he
tested positive for FeLV, I was crushed-- but I just couldn't let him go. I
had him retested by 3 different labs- all of which confirmed the first
positive. To make a long story short- After 3 years and $8K (of 1989
dollars) for very controversial treatments, he finally tested negative on
multiple ELISAs and IFAs. I never knew if the treatments actually cured him
or if he was just one of the 3-5% of FeLV cats that clear the virus from
their bone marrow and seroconvert to negative. Nine years later he died of
cancer that we couldn't beat. After that, I swore I would never get attached
to another rescue-- so much for that oath because I still get attached to
all my rescues with special needs. He wasn't the best looking cat- but he
sure was one in a million: http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Smokey.jpg



> What is the youngest age you test your kittens? I've gotten conflicting
info
> from different vets and the one the rescue group uses doesn't like to test
> younger than 14 weeks.

The AAFP Advisory Panel on Feline Retrovirus Testing recommend that *all*
cats should be tested before adoption *regardless* of age. I wholeheartedly
agree- since most kittens are adopted when they're younger than 14 weeks.
If you get the mother with the kittens, you can just test the mother and one
or two kittens- some groups only test the mother. If I get the kittens
without the mother, I test them all- usually at about 8 weeks and again
before they're adopted. The SnapCombo kits only cost me about $9 and takes
10 minutes so its not a big deal to test or retest. If you go with the AAFP
recommendations you can't go wrong.

Phil

22brix
October 20th 06, 03:53 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > "Wendy" > wrote in message
>> > . ..
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]
>> >> >
>> >> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture?
>> >> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> :o) I like those kind of pictures.
>> >>
>> >> W
>> >
>> > I gotta admit I was sweating bullets while I was running the test
> because
>> > the kittens came from an area near a colony that had a few positives.
>> > I
>> > waited an extra two weeks to run the test to make sure they weren't
>> > incubating the virus.
>> >
>> > I should know better than to get attached to fosters- but these little
>> > guys
>> > really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I know that feeling. I got my little one who had the terrible diarrhea
>> tested last weekend.
>
> This is a picture of what one of the kittens was carrying around --
> Warning:
> its gross! http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Crickets_passengers.jpg
>
>
> It would have killed me after getting him healthy to
>> find he was positive. Happily he was negative and got adopted.
>
> I rescued a cat about 20 years ago- a few years after the IFA was
> developed-
> that I fell completely in love with. He was one big furball of mush. I
> took a special interest in him because he was so damn affectionate and had
> a
> very bad eye infection- that I immediately began treating aggressively. I
> kept him isolated because of his eye. By the time I got around to getting
> him tested a few weeks later- he had a firm grip on my heart. When he
> tested positive for FeLV, I was crushed-- but I just couldn't let him go.
> I
> had him retested by 3 different labs- all of which confirmed the first
> positive. To make a long story short- After 3 years and $8K (of 1989
> dollars) for very controversial treatments, he finally tested negative on
> multiple ELISAs and IFAs. I never knew if the treatments actually cured
> him
> or if he was just one of the 3-5% of FeLV cats that clear the virus from
> their bone marrow and seroconvert to negative. Nine years later he died of
> cancer that we couldn't beat. After that, I swore I would never get
> attached
> to another rescue-- so much for that oath because I still get attached to
> all my rescues with special needs. He wasn't the best looking cat- but he
> sure was one in a million: http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Smokey.jpg
>
>
>
>> What is the youngest age you test your kittens? I've gotten conflicting
> info
>> from different vets and the one the rescue group uses doesn't like to
>> test
>> younger than 14 weeks.
>
> The AAFP Advisory Panel on Feline Retrovirus Testing recommend that *all*
> cats should be tested before adoption *regardless* of age. I
> wholeheartedly
> agree- since most kittens are adopted when they're younger than 14 weeks.
> If you get the mother with the kittens, you can just test the mother and
> one
> or two kittens- some groups only test the mother. If I get the kittens
> without the mother, I test them all- usually at about 8 weeks and again
> before they're adopted. The SnapCombo kits only cost me about $9 and
> takes
> 10 minutes so its not a big deal to test or retest. If you go with the
> AAFP
> recommendations you can't go wrong.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
I had a horrible experience several years ago with a cat who had initially
tested negative for FeLV as a young kitten and three years later developed
leukemia related lymphoma and had to be euthanized. The vet tested him for
FeLV and sure enough he was positive. One of my friends adopted two other
kittens from the same litter and they also initially tested negative (at
another vets office) and later were found to have FeLV and had to be
euthanized. All three kittens were indoor cats with vaccinations from the
time it was appropriate. The mother tested negative but it turns out there
were a couple other queens that were mutually nursing a hoard of kittens so
we don't know if another female was carrying the virus.

I work in a lab so I know that with HIV testing (in humans) the
recommendation is to test a second time several months later if the initial
test is negative since it can take a little while for antibodies to show up.
I've been assuming that's what happened with my cat but have you seen this
before with FeLV? Also, he was quite young (about 6 weeks--too young but I
know better now!)--are they producing their own antibodies by then or are
you measuring maternal antibodies still?

Bonnie

Phil P.
October 21st 06, 04:43 AM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> >
> >
> I had a horrible experience several years ago with a cat who had initially
> tested negative for FeLV as a young kitten and three years later developed
> leukemia related lymphoma and had to be euthanized. The vet tested him
for
> FeLV and sure enough he was positive. One of my friends adopted two other
> kittens from the same litter and they also initially tested negative (at
> another vets office) and later were found to have FeLV and had to be
> euthanized. All three kittens were indoor cats with vaccinations from the
> time it was appropriate. The mother tested negative but it turns out
there
> were a couple other queens that were mutually nursing a hoard of kittens
so
> we don't know if another female was carrying the virus.
>
> I work in a lab so I know that with HIV testing (in humans) the
> recommendation is to test a second time several months later if the
initial
> test is negative since it can take a little while for antibodies to show
up.
> I've been assuming that's what happened with my cat but have you seen this
> before with FeLV?

Yes. If the mother had a latent infection- she would test negative and her
kittens could test negative when they're very young and seroconvert as they
got older. There's no way of knowing when the kittens serocoverted- could
have been several weeks or several months after their first test. Most
seroconverted cats don't become symptomatic for months to years after
infection or reactivation of a latent infection.

Cats with latent FeLV infections will test negative on both the ELISA Snap
and the IFA. Both test for the FeLV antigen, P27 (not antibodies). During
latency antigen isn't produced so both tests will come up negative. If a
cat has a latent infection it can be reactivated at any time- especially by
stress (stress-induced reactivation), unrelated illness, injury or after
being treated with steroids especially DepoMedrol. About 8 years ago, a cat
I was treating with Depo for EGC developed unexplained symptoms. Upon
retesting we found he was positive. This cat was previously tested twice-
once by AC and later by us- both tests were negative.


Also, he was quite young (about 6 weeks--too young but I
> know better now!)--are they producing their own antibodies by then or are
> you measuring maternal antibodies still?


No. The FeLV tests test for antigen not antibodies that's why kittens/cats
can be tested at any age. Maternally-derived antibodies have no affect on
the tests. Vaccinations- including the FeLV vaccine also doesn't affect the
tests either. The FIV test, on tthe other hand, tests for antibodies- just
like the human HIV test. One of the biggest problems with the FIV vaccine
is FIV-vaccinated cats will test FIV positive on both the ELISA and the
immunoblot (Western Blot). As of now, there's no way to tell the difference
between an FIV-vaccinated cat and an FIV-infected cat. This can be a death
sentence if the cat ever gets out and gets picked up AC and is tested.


I'm sorry you lost your cat- especially one so young.

Phil.

22brix
October 21st 06, 05:56 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> Yes. If the mother had a latent infection- she would test negative and her
> kittens could test negative when they're very young and seroconvert as
> they
> got older. There's no way of knowing when the kittens serocoverted- could
> have been several weeks or several months after their first test. Most
> seroconverted cats don't become symptomatic for months to years after
> infection or reactivation of a latent infection.
>
> Cats with latent FeLV infections will test negative on both the ELISA Snap
> and the IFA. Both test for the FeLV antigen, P27 (not antibodies). During
> latency antigen isn't produced so both tests will come up negative. If a
> cat has a latent infection it can be reactivated at any time- especially
> by
> stress (stress-induced reactivation), unrelated illness, injury or after
> being treated with steroids especially DepoMedrol. About 8 years ago, a
> cat
> I was treating with Depo for EGC developed unexplained symptoms. Upon
> retesting we found he was positive. This cat was previously tested twice-
> once by AC and later by us- both tests were negative.
>
>
> Also, he was quite young (about 6 weeks--too young but I
>> know better now!)--are they producing their own antibodies by then or are
>> you measuring maternal antibodies still?
>
>
> No. The FeLV tests test for antigen not antibodies that's why kittens/cats
> can be tested at any age. Maternally-derived antibodies have no affect on
> the tests. Vaccinations- including the FeLV vaccine also doesn't affect
> the
> tests either. The FIV test, on tthe other hand, tests for antibodies-
> just
> like the human HIV test. One of the biggest problems with the FIV vaccine
> is FIV-vaccinated cats will test FIV positive on both the ELISA and the
> immunoblot (Western Blot). As of now, there's no way to tell the
> difference
> between an FIV-vaccinated cat and an FIV-infected cat. This can be a
> death
> sentence if the cat ever gets out and gets picked up AC and is tested.
>
>
> I'm sorry you lost your cat- especially one so young.
>
> Phil.
>
>
I didn't realize it was an antigen test--that makes a lot of sense.

He was a beautiful mutt Siamese--very soft and smokey colored with a "got
milk?" mustache and it was a tremendous shock to lose him. He was only
three. He was so sweet--he loved to lick our hair, especially my dear hubby
who was not amused for the most part! When we went to pick out our kittens,
when I picked him up he immediately started head-butting my hand and
purring--I was lost! Looking back on it, I should have been more suspicious
that the kittens were not being kept in the best of circumstances. They
were outdoors most of the time and the people I got him from had lost the
father to illness just before they were born. This was one time (probably
not the only time!) I let the cuteness factor choose a kitten for me. I
still miss him.

Thanks for the information!
Bonnie

Phil P.
October 23rd 06, 10:07 AM
"RobZip" <no > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister
> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in
a
> > basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for
the
> > next 6 months.
>
> The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival here,
> Jaws!

That's Frankie- Solid muscle-Classic Tabby.

http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie0025.jpg

http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_tree.jpg

http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_0086.jpg

He has the almost the same "bullseye" markings on his sides as one of my
other cats, Jade-0-mine

http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg


Jaws is being very persistent about adopting us. I figure that over
> time my wife will simply run out of air on the subject and accept him
being
> here. I put him outside in the early morning hours just so she can share
the
> joy when he squeezes past her feet to get back inside as she leaves for
> work.

My wife never stopped whining about cat hair on her clothes- I finally got
fed up with her complaining and told her if she doesn't want cat hair on her
clothes stay the hell off their furniture-- Its their furniture- they were
here first. lol

Phil
--
"Cats are a great warm-up to a successful marriage;
they teach you your place in the household".
--Paul Gallico
Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com

Phil P.
October 23rd 06, 10:23 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:BD%[email protected]
> >
> > The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival
here,
> > Jaws!
>
> That's Frankie- Solid muscle-Classic Tabby.
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie0025.jpg
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_tree.jpg
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_0086.jpg


Oops- I forgot a real good view of his markings:


http://maxshouse.com/Ours/frankie-floor.jpg



>
> He has the almost the same "bullseye" markings on his sides as one of my
> other cats, Jade-0-mine
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg

naked on the phone
October 23rd 06, 10:49 AM
Phil P. wrote:

> "Cats are a great warm-up to a successful marriage;
> they teach you your place in the household".
> --Paul Gallico
> Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com

I got a divorce, I told my wife, you can go, just leave the pussy! and
lemme get 5 dollars