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KittiKat
October 18th 06, 04:38 PM
Hi All,

I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
have their own crate while on the plane? I have one cat that will hiss
when very stressed and am not sure if she will "go off" on the other
cat if she becomes frightend. I will not be "tranqing" the animals. I
would drive, however, is 3 day, 26 hour trip and have done the trip
before, and cats were very stressed the entire trip in the car. I have
flown one cat in passenger with me, but she is too big now to fly under
the seat. She tolerated the trip very well. Any one with experience on
putting two cats in one crate?

Thanks!

Matthew
October 18th 06, 04:51 PM
"KittiKat" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
> cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
> hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
> of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
> the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
> have their own crate while on the plane? I have one cat that will hiss
> when very stressed and am not sure if she will "go off" on the other
> cat if she becomes frightend. I will not be "tranqing" the animals. I
> would drive, however, is 3 day, 26 hour trip and have done the trip
> before, and cats were very stressed the entire trip in the car. I have
> flown one cat in passenger with me, but she is too big now to fly under
> the seat. She tolerated the trip very well. Any one with experience on
> putting two cats in one crate?
>
> Thanks!
>

2 crates you are going to stress them out and they might degrade to
territorial aggression being in a confined area under that amount of stress.
Always better safe than sorry

Phil P.
October 18th 06, 06:03 PM
"KittiKat" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
> cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
> hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
> of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
> the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
> have their own crate while on the plane?

Absolutely! Stressed and frightened cats can be unpredictable. Fear and
stress could trigger a situation of redirected aggression by one of your
cats towards your other cat.

Phil

Brian Beuchaw
October 18th 06, 07:47 PM
KittiKat > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
> cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
> hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
> of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
> the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
> have their own crate while on the plane? I have one cat that will hiss
> when very stressed and am not sure if she will "go off" on the other
> cat if she becomes frightend. I will not be "tranqing" the animals. I
> would drive, however, is 3 day, 26 hour trip and have done the trip
> before, and cats were very stressed the entire trip in the car. I have
> flown one cat in passenger with me, but she is too big now to fly under
> the seat. She tolerated the trip very well. Any one with experience on
> putting two cats in one crate?
>
> Thanks!

We flew two cats in one crate from OKC to Milwaukee about 10 years ago and
they both handled it very well, but that was a nonstop and a shorter
flight than yours... If I remember correctly, we didn't use any drugs
either. The crate came out separate from other luggage and sat beside the
airline's baggage claim office since they were nice enough to do that kind
of thing back then - don't know how airlines handle that nowadays (if it's
like everything else airplane-related, they probably aren't that nice
anymore).

If you use two crates, you might wanna check with the airline to see if
you'll have to pay extra since there are all kinds of new restrictions...

Good luck.

brian
--
If you want to reply to this message by mail, you will
have to change the reply address to

KittiKat
October 19th 06, 07:36 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for the advice - I could bring the small, nervous feline up
front in the cabin with me (under the seat in a small soft sided
carrier) and the bigger girl will go into pet hold in the double size
crate (she seems to handle stress differently and doesn't go into
"attack" mode when in crate for long periods like smaller one). This
might be the better option. I also agree, separate space would be
better, since the smaller one has a history of going into attack mode
when very stressed. The whole trauma of the trip may be lessened if
she is under the seat with me. The airline said there are two other
animals flying in cargo hold, so my other cat will be with other crated
animals, which makes me feel better. She tolerates dogs to a point so
having a dog next to her shouldn't be much of an issue unless the dog
barks the entire trip, which would drive me nuts too!!!


Brian Beuchaw wrote:
> KittiKat > wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
> > cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
> > hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
> > of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
> > the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
> > have their own crate while on the plane? I have one cat that will hiss
> > when very stressed and am not sure if she will "go off" on the other
> > cat if she becomes frightend. I will not be "tranqing" the animals. I
> > would drive, however, is 3 day, 26 hour trip and have done the trip
> > before, and cats were very stressed the entire trip in the car. I have
> > flown one cat in passenger with me, but she is too big now to fly under
> > the seat. She tolerated the trip very well. Any one with experience on
> > putting two cats in one crate?
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> We flew two cats in one crate from OKC to Milwaukee about 10 years ago and
> they both handled it very well, but that was a nonstop and a shorter
> flight than yours... If I remember correctly, we didn't use any drugs
> either. The crate came out separate from other luggage and sat beside the
> airline's baggage claim office since they were nice enough to do that kind
> of thing back then - don't know how airlines handle that nowadays (if it's
> like everything else airplane-related, they probably aren't that nice
> anymore).
>
> If you use two crates, you might wanna check with the airline to see if
> you'll have to pay extra since there are all kinds of new restrictions...
>
> Good luck.
>
> brian
> --
> If you want to reply to this message by mail, you will
> have to change the reply address to

Matthew
October 19th 06, 07:39 PM
Get some feliway also spray it into the carriers to help out the stress


"KittiKat" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for the advice - I could bring the small, nervous feline up
> front in the cabin with me (under the seat in a small soft sided
> carrier) and the bigger girl will go into pet hold in the double size
> crate (she seems to handle stress differently and doesn't go into
> "attack" mode when in crate for long periods like smaller one). This
> might be the better option. I also agree, separate space would be
> better, since the smaller one has a history of going into attack mode
> when very stressed. The whole trauma of the trip may be lessened if
> she is under the seat with me. The airline said there are two other
> animals flying in cargo hold, so my other cat will be with other crated
> animals, which makes me feel better. She tolerates dogs to a point so
> having a dog next to her shouldn't be much of an issue unless the dog
> barks the entire trip, which would drive me nuts too!!!
>
>
> Brian Beuchaw wrote:
>> KittiKat > wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > I am flying on WestJet with my two cats, who must go in the animal
>> > cargo hold, due to their size. The flight is going to be about 6 1/2
>> > hours from airport to airport (this includes one stop, with no change
>> > of plane for 30 minutes). The cats get along very well, and sleep in
>> > the same crate regularly at home, but I am wondering if they should
>> > have their own crate while on the plane? I have one cat that will hiss
>> > when very stressed and am not sure if she will "go off" on the other
>> > cat if she becomes frightend. I will not be "tranqing" the animals. I
>> > would drive, however, is 3 day, 26 hour trip and have done the trip
>> > before, and cats were very stressed the entire trip in the car. I have
>> > flown one cat in passenger with me, but she is too big now to fly under
>> > the seat. She tolerated the trip very well. Any one with experience on
>> > putting two cats in one crate?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>>
>> We flew two cats in one crate from OKC to Milwaukee about 10 years ago
>> and
>> they both handled it very well, but that was a nonstop and a shorter
>> flight than yours... If I remember correctly, we didn't use any drugs
>> either. The crate came out separate from other luggage and sat beside
>> the
>> airline's baggage claim office since they were nice enough to do that
>> kind
>> of thing back then - don't know how airlines handle that nowadays (if
>> it's
>> like everything else airplane-related, they probably aren't that nice
>> anymore).
>>
>> If you use two crates, you might wanna check with the airline to see if
>> you'll have to pay extra since there are all kinds of new restrictions...
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> brian
>> --
>> If you want to reply to this message by mail, you will
>> have to change the reply address to
>

barb
October 20th 06, 04:49 PM
We drove 26 hours to Florida and the same back years ago with 2 Siamese
cats. After the first couple hours they were fine. Stayed in motels twice
each way.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.

KittiKat
October 23rd 06, 12:00 AM
Hi All,

Just found now out that the airline may NOT take my "nervous" cat up
front with me as she is 1 1/2 inches "taller" when "standing" up in
the soft sided carrier. The agent says the agent at the gate may refuse
her to board with me.

Now here lies the problem. The pet cargo hold is *full* i.e. the
airline can only take one more crate (max. is 3 crates per flight in
the pet cargo area). Therefore, if she is refused by the agent at the
gate, I would have to put her in crate with my other, more docile
female cat (see my original email above). The only travel experience I
have with both cats, is the road trip we took about 4 months ago. I
travelled via car and both cats were in their own crates. The first
day, nervous cat cried/hissed the *entire* 8 hours and she continued
once we were in the hotel room. She never did "attack" my other cat,
but did hiss for about 1/2 hour when approached (the more docile cat I
had no problems with what so). She did eventually settle the second and
third day, still cried but did not hiss.

Tommorrow I am going to put both of them in the one crate and the car
and go for a long drive to see how they both manage (say for an hour or
so, about the time the more nervous one gets antsy) to see how they
cope? I do realize that flying will be more stressful but at least this
will allow me to see how they both behave. I do have a choice between a
Vari Kennel small dog crate (which they both sleep together in now and
are very use to - it would fit a 20- 40 pound dog comfortably) or a
medium size crate (the medium size crate would hold a 40-60 pound dog)
which would be rather large for both of them, but, it may give the
other cat enough room if she needs to move to the other side of the
crate. Would the larger crate be better? I am also going to hopefully
get some Feliway for travel - anyone know how long this will last? I do
understand that it is a calming phermone in a spray format.

Thanks

Matthew
October 23rd 06, 12:15 AM
Possible to change your reservation if they are non refundable you can
use the excuse of their problem they described

Yes feliway in the crate should help

"KittiKat" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just found now out that the airline may NOT take my "nervous" cat up
> front with me as she is 1 1/2 inches "taller" when "standing" up in
> the soft sided carrier. The agent says the agent at the gate may refuse
> her to board with me.
>
> Now here lies the problem. The pet cargo hold is *full* i.e. the
> airline can only take one more crate (max. is 3 crates per flight in
> the pet cargo area). Therefore, if she is refused by the agent at the
> gate, I would have to put her in crate with my other, more docile
> female cat (see my original email above). The only travel experience I
> have with both cats, is the road trip we took about 4 months ago. I
> travelled via car and both cats were in their own crates. The first
> day, nervous cat cried/hissed the *entire* 8 hours and she continued
> once we were in the hotel room. She never did "attack" my other cat,
> but did hiss for about 1/2 hour when approached (the more docile cat I
> had no problems with what so). She did eventually settle the second and
> third day, still cried but did not hiss.
>
> Tommorrow I am going to put both of them in the one crate and the car
> and go for a long drive to see how they both manage (say for an hour or
> so, about the time the more nervous one gets antsy) to see how they
> cope? I do realize that flying will be more stressful but at least this
> will allow me to see how they both behave. I do have a choice between a
> Vari Kennel small dog crate (which they both sleep together in now and
> are very use to - it would fit a 20- 40 pound dog comfortably) or a
> medium size crate (the medium size crate would hold a 40-60 pound dog)
> which would be rather large for both of them, but, it may give the
> other cat enough room if she needs to move to the other side of the
> crate. Would the larger crate be better? I am also going to hopefully
> get some Feliway for travel - anyone know how long this will last? I do
> understand that it is a calming phermone in a spray format.
>
> Thanks
>

Lynne
October 23rd 06, 12:36 AM
on Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:15:24 GMT, "Matthew"
> wrote:

> Possible to change your reservation if they are non refundable you
> can use the excuse of their problem they described
>

That would be my first option, but if it is not possible, can you get a
divider for the dog crate? Some manufacturers do make dog crates with
dividers, but I don't know if you can get just the divider part. You may
want to consider investing in a crate or carrier that has this option.
Good luck to you and your kitties!

- Lynne

Rhonda
October 23rd 06, 02:56 AM
Most airlines only allow one animal per crate. They've had too many
instances of regularly calm animals freaking out when traveling and
harming (or worse) the other one in the carrier.

I would change the reservation. Could you even change to another airline
that doesn't care how tall the cat is? I thought most go by weight. I
know someone who brought a golden retriever puppy in the cabin and it
was a few ounces under the max. weight, but definitely taller than a cat!

Good luck,

Rhonda

KittiKat wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Just found now out that the airline may NOT take my "nervous" cat up
> front with me as she is 1 1/2 inches "taller" when "standing" up in
> the soft sided carrier. The agent says the agent at the gate may refuse
> her to board with me.
>
> Now here lies the problem. The pet cargo hold is *full* i.e. the
> airline can only take one more crate (max. is 3 crates per flight in
> the pet cargo area). Therefore, if she is refused by the agent at the
> gate, I would have to put her in crate with my other, more docile
> female cat (see my original email above). The only travel experience I
> have with both cats, is the road trip we took about 4 months ago. I
> travelled via car and both cats were in their own crates. The first
> day, nervous cat cried/hissed the *entire* 8 hours and she continued
> once we were in the hotel room. She never did "attack" my other cat,
> but did hiss for about 1/2 hour when approached (the more docile cat I
> had no problems with what so). She did eventually settle the second and
> third day, still cried but did not hiss.
>
> Tommorrow I am going to put both of them in the one crate and the car
> and go for a long drive to see how they both manage (say for an hour or
> so, about the time the more nervous one gets antsy) to see how they
> cope? I do realize that flying will be more stressful but at least this
> will allow me to see how they both behave. I do have a choice between a
> Vari Kennel small dog crate (which they both sleep together in now and
> are very use to - it would fit a 20- 40 pound dog comfortably) or a
> medium size crate (the medium size crate would hold a 40-60 pound dog)
> which would be rather large for both of them, but, it may give the
> other cat enough room if she needs to move to the other side of the
> crate. Would the larger crate be better? I am also going to hopefully
> get some Feliway for travel - anyone know how long this will last? I do
> understand that it is a calming phermone in a spray format.
>
> Thanks
>

Annie Wxill
October 23rd 06, 04:34 AM
"KittiKat" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Just found now out that the airline may NOT take my "nervous" cat up
> front with me as she is 1 1/2 inches "taller" when standing" up in the
> soft sided carrier. ...

Hello KittiKat,

How does the airline know how tall your cat is when it stands up?

What is she taller than when standing up in the carrier?

Does the soft sided carrier fit under the seat (conform to the required
size)?

If it does, can you cat stand up inside the carrier?

If your cat can stand up inside the carrier, I don't see what the problem
is.

Annie

Phil P.
October 23rd 06, 05:54 AM
"KittiKat" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Just found now out that the airline may NOT take my "nervous" cat up
> front with me as she is 1 1/2 inches "taller" when "standing" up in
> the soft sided carrier. The agent says the agent at the gate may refuse
> her to board with me.
>
> Now here lies the problem. The pet cargo hold is *full* i.e. the
> airline can only take one more crate (max. is 3 crates per flight in
> the pet cargo area). Therefore, if she is refused by the agent at the
> gate, I would have to put her in crate with my other, more docile
> female cat (see my original email above).

Get a large dog VariKennel and put your two carriers inside side by side.

Put a thick piece of foam rubber or bubble wrap between the top and bottom
of the carriers so they don't move around and also provide cushioning. Make
sure the padding is large enough to wrap around the sides of the inside
cages up to the top and bottom of the vents- leaving the vents clear, of
course. The trip will be less stressful if the doors of the inside carriers
are a little lower than the side vets of the outer carrier. The less the
cats can see the better. VariKennels have about the highest side vents.

The outer carrier provides extra protection from objects (and people)
reaching your cats. The double doors also provide protection against the
cage doors jarring open. If the outer carrier has plastic bolts holding the
two halves together, take out every other bolt and replace it with a thick
plastic electrical locking tie. Use a tie on the top and bottom of the
outer door to keep it closed securely. Put a few extra ties in a ZipLock
bag and tape it to the inside of the outer cage. Don't put any food or
water in the cages- the flight is short.

Phil

KittiKat
October 24th 06, 01:51 AM
Hi Annie and All,

My cat is 11 inches tall, and the height requirement, which is new to
West Jet since adding the Leather seats, is 8 1/2 inches. The agent
states the cat must be able to "comfortably" stand and turn around
while under the seat. The seat space use to be around 10 - 11 inches
with the old standard seats prior to the company putting in new leather
seats with Video Display terminals this year. The agent stated that the
Video screens "stole" the space from under the seat, hence the new
travel requirements for pets in passenger. I have flown on WJ before
the new video terminals, with cat, when they use to allow the standard
small hard sided Vari Kennels. Now the company is only allowing soft
sided carriers in passenger, which they say, must "squish" down to 8
1/2 inches. Testing my cat out in the carrier under my bed frame which
is approximately this height, the cat had to crouch low, could not
stand up at all, and looked stressed and very, very uncomfortable.
Additionally, as two pet stores told me, companies that make soft sided
carriers, make them for a 10 1/2 - 11 inches head space, which is
standard on most planes. When you squish a soft sided carrier of this
size, down 3 inches, the carrier actually folds in on itself and the
cat, leaving even less room for the animal to move. I talked to the
agent, who stated that they would probably refuse her boarding in
passenger but more to the point, she just looked like a sardine stuffed
into a tiny tin can! When West Jet states animals can come into the
cabin, they are limiting the type of animal to very few (like maybe a
Yorkie or kitten), based on the new seat requirements, so anyone
thinking of taking their cat be forwarned. My cat is tiny to most cats,
and even she can't make the space requirements.

At any rate, to all, thanks for all your great suggestions. I actually
changed the reservation which cost me 200 bucks extra to put both
animals in separate cages and we leave tomorrow.

As for the FeliWay - Instructions state one spray 20 minutes prior to
loading cat into crate - Does anyone know if this will be enough for
the entire trip or should I spray the bedding as well as the interior
sides of the crate? The vet technician couldn't give me any answers???
Also, crating animals at about 10:45 Am, should I feed them and get up
early, at say 7 am or should I just not feed them anything and wait
till we get home????????????

Thanks in Advance :)