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jenwrenfer
November 13th 06, 06:03 PM
Hello all,

I'm new here and just wanted to post and see if anyone had an experience like
I am currently having.

I have a 4 year old kitty with a history of mouth pain, extremely inflamed
gums. She has an autoimmune response to any amount of tartar, etc., on her
teeth and her mouth goes crazy. They treated her with steroids for a while,
but after the way her mouth looked last week we are going in to have most of
her teeth removed tomorrow. Has anyone had this done? What was the recovery
period like?

My second question is that her blood sugar was really high when they took her
blood at the vet. They said stress or the steroids can cause this, but
sometimes this will resolve itself on it's own once she can resume eating a
normal diet (she only eats baby food right now). Has anyone (hopefully) had
this happen?

I can't treat all her problems at once, so I figure I will deal with the
teeth, give her a couple of weeks and she how she is doing. It's hard to
discern symptoms when so much is going on at one time, but she doesn't have
the increased thirst or some of the other signs of diabetes.

Anyway, just fishing and hoping maybe someone has seen this before.

Take care all~! And wish me and Cleo luck for tomorrow~!

Matthew
November 13th 06, 06:23 PM
A real quick question have you got a second opinion before removing her
teeth that is a big decision

and how did they test her blood sugar did she eat before she went in, did
they do a curve

Not all animals show the signs of diabetes increased thirst is a common
sign but not every animals shows it

The reason I am asking is if the furball has diabetes it can be causing some
of those symptoms

IMO is if they had not done a curve I would have one done before and see
if it is the diabetes then you can aggressively treat what needs to be done

PS not all vets are experienced in feline diabetes

PSS good luck and I hope all goes well

http://www.felinediabetes.com/

How do we prepare for surgery or teeth cleaning?
Each vet will have their own preference for how they want you to prepare
your pet for a surgery or a procedure like teeth cleaning. Since a diabetic
pet must have it's food and insulin in regular amounts and at certain times,
you must discuss these factors with your vet when you schedule the
procedure. How the vet wants you to prepare your pet will depend on factors
such as your pet's food and insulin schedule, overall health, the procedure
being done, and the vet's personal preferences. You and the vet should
schedule the procedure so that it causes the least amount of disruption to
your pet's diabetes management routine. After the procedure, your pet may
need extra monitoring to determine if the diabetes is controlled. This may
be for just a day or two while your pet recovers from a simple procedure, or
for a longer period if the procedure was extensive or if it changed your
pet's overall health status. For example, teeth cleaning may leave the pet's
mouth tender for a day or two and it may not want to eat. So monitoring for
those days is important to be sure the pet does not become hypoglycemic.
But the teeth cleaning may have also eliminated some gum infections, which
may result in the pet requiring less insulin for the long term.


"jenwrenfer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new here and just wanted to post and see if anyone had an experience
> like
> I am currently having.
>
> I have a 4 year old kitty with a history of mouth pain, extremely inflamed
> gums. She has an autoimmune response to any amount of tartar, etc., on her
> teeth and her mouth goes crazy. They treated her with steroids for a
> while,
> but after the way her mouth looked last week we are going in to have most
> of
> her teeth removed tomorrow. Has anyone had this done? What was the
> recovery
> period like?
>
> My second question is that her blood sugar was really high when they took
> her
> blood at the vet. They said stress or the steroids can cause this, but
> sometimes this will resolve itself on it's own once she can resume eating
> a
> normal diet (she only eats baby food right now). Has anyone (hopefully)
> had
> this happen?
>
> I can't treat all her problems at once, so I figure I will deal with the
> teeth, give her a couple of weeks and she how she is doing. It's hard to
> discern symptoms when so much is going on at one time, but she doesn't
> have
> the increased thirst or some of the other signs of diabetes.
>
> Anyway, just fishing and hoping maybe someone has seen this before.
>
> Take care all~! And wish me and Cleo luck for tomorrow~!
>

Lynne
November 13th 06, 06:36 PM
on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:23:28 GMT, "Matthew"
> wrote:

> The reason I am asking is if the furball has diabetes it can be
> causing some of those symptoms

That would be my concern, that the kitty has diabetes and the diabetes is
causing the mouth/gum symptoms.

To the OP: if you haven't gotten a second opinion, I'd do that prior to an
irreversible decision like extracting your kitty's teeth. I would find
someone very experienced in feline diabetes. Often an emergency hospital
will have a diabetes specialist on staff, or at the very least know who to
recommend.

--
Lynne

dgk
November 13th 06, 08:10 PM
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:03:40 GMT, "jenwrenfer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I'm new here and just wanted to post and see if anyone had an experience like
>I am currently having.
>
>I have a 4 year old kitty with a history of mouth pain, extremely inflamed
>gums. She has an autoimmune response to any amount of tartar, etc., on her
>teeth and her mouth goes crazy. They treated her with steroids for a while,
>but after the way her mouth looked last week we are going in to have most of
>her teeth removed tomorrow. Has anyone had this done? What was the recovery
>period like?
>
>My second question is that her blood sugar was really high when they took her
>blood at the vet. They said stress or the steroids can cause this, but
>sometimes this will resolve itself on it's own once she can resume eating a
>normal diet (she only eats baby food right now). Has anyone (hopefully) had
>this happen?
>
>I can't treat all her problems at once, so I figure I will deal with the
>teeth, give her a couple of weeks and she how she is doing. It's hard to
>discern symptoms when so much is going on at one time, but she doesn't have
>the increased thirst or some of the other signs of diabetes.
>
>Anyway, just fishing and hoping maybe someone has seen this before.
>
>Take care all~! And wish me and Cleo luck for tomorrow~!

As others said, get a second opinion. But I do have some info for you.

I adopted an old, sick cat named Jackie. The pet store I got her at
had no idea what was wrong with her but she weighed all of five pounds
and her lips were blue. She had the most miserable look that I have
ever seen on a cat. I figured that I could at least give her a decent
place to die.

My vet didn't know what was wrong but tests ruled out most things. No
diabetes, no thyroid problems; in fact, fairly good chems for an old
girl. The glance he was able to get into her mouth showed him that
there were ulcers all in her throat and her mouth was a flaming pit of
hell.

So we put her on antibiotics for a month or so but nothing helped and
he sent me off the the dental specialist at the specialty vet clinic.
They diagnosed her as having exactly what you describe, an allergic
reaction to her own teeth or bacteria or tarter. They said that the
only thing that would help her was having all of her teeth extracted
and we did it.

It wasn't cheap I should add. As I recall it was around $1000 and
would have been more but that only covered the hospital fees. The
dentist did his work for free since I had just adopted her. They
pulled all the teeth as well as quite a few that had broken off below
the gum line.

After a few days she came home. She started eating a ton more and even
gained some weight. That look of misery left her face. She was pretty
happy in fact. She developed chronic diarhea after another two months
or so which was a bit of a pain for the household. Still, she lived
another five or six months before a non-operable tumor in her ear
developed and we had to put her to sleep.

She was a tough old girl. Normally when I get a new cat I put them
into the Cat Introduction Room for a few days, and they promptly dive
under the bed and hide for a day or two as I try to coax them out.
When I went in for the first time after depositing Jackie, she was
sitting on the edge of the bed nearest the door waiting for me.

After a day she made it very clear that she wanted out of the room. I
was concerned because she was five pounds and my two boys are 11 and
16. She comes out, Espy comes up and hisses in her face. She hauled
off and belted him right in the mouth. Espy ran away. Nipsy, the 16
pounder, was clearly impressed as well. Espy never did warm to her but
Nipsy was her friend.

I say that your situation sounds pretty close except your girl is a
lot younger. I wish someone had done this for Jackie years before I
got her. I think that cat suffered unbelieveably because it wasn't
done. If diabetes is ruled out, I think the vet knows what they're
talking about.

cybercat
November 13th 06, 08:37 PM
"dgk" > wrote
>
> I adopted an old, sick cat named Jackie. The pet store I got her at
> had no idea what was wrong with her but she weighed all of five pounds
> and her lips were blue. She had the most miserable look that I have
> ever seen on a cat. I figured that I could at least give her a decent
> place to die.
>

I remember Jackie. I saved her picture to my "cats" file. You did a
wonderful thing for her. I am not sure anyone else would have done
what you did.

Lynne
November 13th 06, 10:29 PM
on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:10:46 GMT, dgk > wrote:

> I say that your situation sounds pretty close except your girl is a
> lot younger. I wish someone had done this for Jackie years before I
> got her. I think that cat suffered unbelieveably because it wasn't
> done. If diabetes is ruled out, I think the vet knows what they're
> talking about.

That is such a beautiful thing you did for Jackie! What a lucky kitty she
was to have found you.

--
Lynne

jenwrenfer
November 13th 06, 10:55 PM
Well I really do have to get the teeth out. This is the second vet that has
said that. And this time they actually gave her some gas so they could really
get a good look at them, and called us back, and well, I just don't know how
she's doing as well as she is to be honest. It is horrible looking.

Anyway she just had her last meal and antibiotic, so we're all ready to go in
the morning. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the replies!

mlbriggs
November 14th 06, 01:10 AM
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:55:30 +0000, jenwrenfer wrote:

> Well I really do have to get the teeth out. This is the second vet that has
> said that. And this time they actually gave her some gas so they could really
> get a good look at them, and called us back, and well, I just don't know how
> she's doing as well as she is to be honest. It is horrible looking.
>
> Anyway she just had her last meal and antibiotic, so we're all ready to go in
> the morning. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Thanks for the replies!


Purrs for a successful outcome. MLB

Lynne
November 14th 06, 01:25 AM
on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:55:30 GMT, "jenwrenfer" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well I really do have to get the teeth out. This is the second vet
> that has said that. And this time they actually gave her some gas so
> they could really get a good look at them, and called us back, and
> well, I just don't know how she's doing as well as she is to be
> honest. It is horrible looking.

with 2 vets saying the same thing, I would think you are safe in your
decision. I'll bet that once your kitty recovers from the surgery, she
will be VERY happy. She probably won't even notice she doesn't have teeth
because she'll be so happy to be out of pain! I hope so, anyway. Best of
luck to both of you tomorrow. Try not to worry too much.

--
Lynne


"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives
with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb

Rhonda
November 14th 06, 02:37 AM
Hi there, sorry your cat is having problems.

I think diabetes can cause more teeth issues than normal -- our cat had
to have 6 teeth planed or removed about 8 months after his diabetes
diagnosis.

Steroids can trigger diabetes, so who knows what came first for your cat.

I hope the sugar goes back down, how high was it? Our vet goes by a
benchmark of about 200 for kitties stressed by the trip to the vet
(normal is 100.) Bob's was 400 when diagnosed.

I'm glad you're getting those teeth fixed. That will make a huge
difference in how he feels. I hope it goes well for him tomorrow.

Let us know what happens with the sugar levels,

Rhonda

jenwrenfer wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new here and just wanted to post and see if anyone had an experience like
> I am currently having.
>
> I have a 4 year old kitty with a history of mouth pain, extremely inflamed
> gums. She has an autoimmune response to any amount of tartar, etc., on her
> teeth and her mouth goes crazy. They treated her with steroids for a while,
> but after the way her mouth looked last week we are going in to have most of
> her teeth removed tomorrow. Has anyone had this done? What was the recovery
> period like?
>
> My second question is that her blood sugar was really high when they took her
> blood at the vet. They said stress or the steroids can cause this, but
> sometimes this will resolve itself on it's own once she can resume eating a
> normal diet (she only eats baby food right now). Has anyone (hopefully) had
> this happen?
>
> I can't treat all her problems at once, so I figure I will deal with the
> teeth, give her a couple of weeks and she how she is doing. It's hard to
> discern symptoms when so much is going on at one time, but she doesn't have
> the increased thirst or some of the other signs of diabetes.
>
> Anyway, just fishing and hoping maybe someone has seen this before.
>
> Take care all~! And wish me and Cleo luck for tomorrow~!
>

dgk
November 14th 06, 01:59 PM
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:37:38 GMT, Rhonda >
wrote:

>Hi there, sorry your cat is having problems.
>
>I think diabetes can cause more teeth issues than normal -- our cat had
>to have 6 teeth planed or removed about 8 months after his diabetes
>diagnosis.
>
>Steroids can trigger diabetes, so who knows what came first for your cat.
>
>I hope the sugar goes back down, how high was it? Our vet goes by a
>benchmark of about 200 for kitties stressed by the trip to the vet
>(normal is 100.) Bob's was 400 when diagnosed.
>
>I'm glad you're getting those teeth fixed. That will make a huge
>difference in how he feels. I hope it goes well for him tomorrow.
>
>Let us know what happens with the sugar levels,
>
>Rhonda

I did a bit more research about steroids and diabetes. There are three
types of steroids, and the ones that we're talking about (prednisone
and such) are all gluco-steroids. Gluco, because their primary action
involves the glucose pathways in the body. So it should hardly be a
surprise that there would be a relationship between the steroids and
diabetes.

Apparently the action that we care about, the anti-inflamatory
response, is a byproduct of their primary activity. It isn't even
understood why there is an anti-inflamatory action, but there is so we
use it. Weird science.

dgk
November 14th 06, 01:59 PM
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:37:03 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote
>>
>> I adopted an old, sick cat named Jackie. The pet store I got her at
>> had no idea what was wrong with her but she weighed all of five pounds
>> and her lips were blue. She had the most miserable look that I have
>> ever seen on a cat. I figured that I could at least give her a decent
>> place to die.
>>
>
>I remember Jackie. I saved her picture to my "cats" file. You did a
>wonderful thing for her. I am not sure anyone else would have done
>what you did.
>

Thanks. She certainly was a tough old lady.

jenwrenfer via CatKB.com
November 15th 06, 08:10 PM
Hi all~!

Well, it's going okay so far. Cleo had all of her teeth removed, and we had a
rough night last night. She's in a Elizabethan collar for two weeks, and
since she was disoriented last night from the anesthesa we had to confine her
in the laundry room. She was none too pleased, so my husband and I, needless
to say, didn't get much sleep.

Today is better though. I'm able to let her have the run of the apartment
with my other kitty when one of us is home to supervise. My other kitty is a
little scared of the e-collar, so when we leave they each get two rooms to
themselves. This works out since I can leave out the dry food for the other
cat when we are gone.

Cleo can eat and drink with the e-collar on. They recommended we not take it
off because it will only get harder to put it back on each time. I took it
off while she ate once today to get some of the dried bloody salivia (eww!)
out of it for her, but I can just wipe it down when she finishes eating from
now on.

She is eating like a horse, which I can't believe just a day after surgery
and 60+ stitches. But you really wouldn't even know it. It kills me to leave
the collar on her all the time but I know if she were to get at those
stitches she would really be in trouble.

So needless to say I'm a little tired after my 12 hour day yesterday and
sleepless night, but hopefully we are on the road to recovery. We of course
have non-refundable tickets out of town for 5 days next week but I think what
we'll do is just keep them seperated while we are gone, my mother will be
down to feed them and the like. Although they will miss each other for the
few days I think it will be easier for her to recover without the other one
bugging her all the time.

Thanks for the information and encouragement~!

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200611/1

Matthew
November 15th 06, 08:43 PM
Happy Dance

Have good time while you are away


"jenwrenfer via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi all~!
>
> Well, it's going okay so far. Cleo had all of her teeth removed, and we
> had a
> rough night last night. She's in a Elizabethan collar for two weeks, and
> since she was disoriented last night from the anesthesa we had to confine
> her
> in the laundry room. She was none too pleased, so my husband and I,
> needless
> to say, didn't get much sleep.
>
> Today is better though. I'm able to let her have the run of the apartment
> with my other kitty when one of us is home to supervise. My other kitty is
> a
> little scared of the e-collar, so when we leave they each get two rooms to
> themselves. This works out since I can leave out the dry food for the
> other
> cat when we are gone.
>
> Cleo can eat and drink with the e-collar on. They recommended we not take
> it
> off because it will only get harder to put it back on each time. I took it
> off while she ate once today to get some of the dried bloody salivia
> (eww!)
> out of it for her, but I can just wipe it down when she finishes eating
> from
> now on.
>
> She is eating like a horse, which I can't believe just a day after surgery
> and 60+ stitches. But you really wouldn't even know it. It kills me to
> leave
> the collar on her all the time but I know if she were to get at those
> stitches she would really be in trouble.
>
> So needless to say I'm a little tired after my 12 hour day yesterday and
> sleepless night, but hopefully we are on the road to recovery. We of
> course
> have non-refundable tickets out of town for 5 days next week but I think
> what
> we'll do is just keep them seperated while we are gone, my mother will be
> down to feed them and the like. Although they will miss each other for the
> few days I think it will be easier for her to recover without the other
> one
> bugging her all the time.
>
> Thanks for the information and encouragement~!
>
> --
> Message posted via CatKB.com
> http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200611/1
>

Lynne
November 15th 06, 09:12 PM
on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:10:07 GMT, "jenwrenfer via CatKB.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all~!
>
> Well, it's going okay so far. Cleo had all of her teeth removed, and
> we had a rough night last night. She's in a Elizabethan collar for two
> weeks, and since she was disoriented last night from the anesthesa we
> had to confine her in the laundry room. She was none too pleased, so
> my husband and I, needless to say, didn't get much sleep.
>
> Today is better though. I'm able to let her have the run of the
> apartment with my other kitty when one of us is home to supervise. My
> other kitty is a little scared of the e-collar, so when we leave they
> each get two rooms to themselves. This works out since I can leave out
> the dry food for the other cat when we are gone.
>
> Cleo can eat and drink with the e-collar on. They recommended we not
> take it off because it will only get harder to put it back on each
> time. I took it off while she ate once today to get some of the dried
> bloody salivia (eww!) out of it for her, but I can just wipe it down
> when she finishes eating from now on.
>
> She is eating like a horse, which I can't believe just a day after
> surgery and 60+ stitches. But you really wouldn't even know it. It
> kills me to leave the collar on her all the time but I know if she
> were to get at those stitches she would really be in trouble.
>
> So needless to say I'm a little tired after my 12 hour day yesterday
> and sleepless night, but hopefully we are on the road to recovery. We
> of course have non-refundable tickets out of town for 5 days next week
> but I think what we'll do is just keep them seperated while we are
> gone, my mother will be down to feed them and the like. Although they
> will miss each other for the few days I think it will be easier for
> her to recover without the other one bugging her all the time.
>
> Thanks for the information and encouragement~!

I'm so relieved to hear that Cleo's surgery went well and she is
recovering. Don't worry too much about the e-collar. She'll get used to
it and then it will be time to take it off!

--
Lynne


"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our
lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb

Lesley
November 16th 06, 12:45 AM
dgk wrote:
>> >
> >I remember Jackie. I saved her picture to my "cats" file. You did a
> >wonderful thing for her. I am not sure anyone else would have done
> >what you did.
> >
>
>

I'll always remeber her she crossed the Bridge on the same day as our
Fugazi did some years before for the same reason

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Rhonda
November 18th 06, 05:17 AM
dgk wrote:
>
> I did a bit more research about steroids and diabetes. There are three
> types of steroids, and the ones that we're talking about (prednisone
> and such) are all gluco-steroids. Gluco, because their primary action
> involves the glucose pathways in the body. So it should hardly be a
> surprise that there would be a relationship between the steroids and
> diabetes.

That's interesting. I didn't realize there were 3 types of steroids.
It's good to know the relationship with diabetes. Wish I would have
known before Bob got his fateful shot.

Rhonda

Rhonda
November 18th 06, 05:18 AM
jenwrenfer via CatKB.com wrote:
> So needless to say I'm a little tired after my 12 hour day yesterday and
> sleepless night, but hopefully we are on the road to recovery.

Sounds like it's been stressful for you lately, but I'm glad Cleo is
doing well after her surgery. Hopefully, you can relax on vacation!

Rhonda