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Charlie Wilkes
December 5th 06, 05:22 AM
I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?

Charlie

-L.
December 5th 06, 07:26 AM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>
> Charlie

Charlie,
The risk with Baytril is blindness. Esophageal constriction was
doxycycline, IIRC.
I'd ask the vet for a different antibiotic.

-L.

-L.
December 5th 06, 07:29 AM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>
> Charlie

Found this link:
http://www.pandecats.com/x/baytril_warning.htm

Baytril dosage is not to exceed 5mg/kg (5 mg/2.2lbs). I'd still switch
him to something else.

-L.

2oz
December 5th 06, 03:50 PM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>
> Charlie

A speedy recovery to both of you, you have good tenants, it's the worst
thing to be alone but need someone

cool deal that you got the money handle your business, lol

wow, the morning is just buzzing away, take care

Barry

CatNipped
December 5th 06, 05:33 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>
> Charlie

From what I understand, you need to make sure they get plenty of water when
giving Baytril (syringe several droppersful before and after pilling)
because it can cause caustic burning of the esophagus.

I believe it was Candace who had that problem, perhaps she will respond with
more information if you ping her.

Hugs,

CatNipped

cybercat
December 5th 06, 06:49 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. [..]

Charlie, I can't help with Tweaker but I hope you are feeling better and
that
he gets better soon. You have been missed.

Charlie Wilkes
December 5th 06, 10:13 PM
On 4 Dec 2006 22:29:14 -0800, "-L." > wrote:

>
>Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>> I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
>> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
>> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
>> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
>> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
>> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
>> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
>> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
>> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
>> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
>> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
>> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
>> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>>
>> Charlie
>
>Found this link:
>http://www.pandecats.com/x/baytril_warning.htm
>
>Baytril dosage is not to exceed 5mg/kg (5 mg/2.2lbs). I'd still switch
>him to something else.
>
>-L.

Hmmm. I wonder what other options are available? The dose he is on
now works out to the maximum recommended.

I will call another vet and get an opinion.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
December 5th 06, 10:38 PM
On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:49:14 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
>>I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
>> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
>> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
>> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
>> away. [..]
>
>Charlie, I can't help with Tweaker but I hope you are feeling better and
>that
>he gets better soon. You have been missed.
>
Thanks. As far as I can tell, Tweaker is tolerating the Baytril just
fine, and it has definitely cleared up the infection. He was pretty
miserable for awhile there. They have me giving him 1 and a quarter
22.7 mg pills once a day, which works out to about 5 mg/kg. I'm going
to consult another vet, but it isn't that easy to get vet meds out
here to the island, and I think I may have to continue with the
Baytril but reduce the dosage slightly by eliminating the quarter
pill.

Charlie

Candace
December 6th 06, 03:22 AM
CatNipped wrote:
>
> From what I understand, you need to make sure they get plenty of water when
> giving Baytril (syringe several droppersful before and after pilling)
> because it can cause caustic burning of the esophagus.
>
> I believe it was Candace who had that problem, perhaps she will respond with
> more information if you ping her.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped

No. Hi, I haven't been here for quite awhile either. Charlie, I'm
sorry about your surgery. Hope you're on the mend and Tweaker, too.
What a drag.

CN, misunderstanding--it's doxycycline that causes esophageal stricture
if given without water (as my late cat was). The vet had prescribed
baytril and I had heard bad things about it, specifically blindness, so
I insisted (unfortunately) that he use something else and it was
doxycycline he chose...disastrously. I wish I had let my cat be on
baytril. Blindness is fairly rare if properly dosed, I think. At
least he'd be alive now.

It sounds as tho Tweaker is getting better. I wonder if he was
stressed about your absence. I believe UTIs can be exacerbated by
stress.

Speedy recovery to both of you boys.

Candace

Charlie Wilkes
December 6th 06, 05:12 AM
On 5 Dec 2006 18:22:12 -0800, "Candace" > wrote:

>CatNipped wrote:
>>
>> From what I understand, you need to make sure they get plenty of water when
>> giving Baytril (syringe several droppersful before and after pilling)
>> because it can cause caustic burning of the esophagus.
>>
>> I believe it was Candace who had that problem, perhaps she will respond with
>> more information if you ping her.
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> CatNipped
>
>No. Hi, I haven't been here for quite awhile either. Charlie, I'm
>sorry about your surgery. Hope you're on the mend and Tweaker, too.
>What a drag.
>
>CN, misunderstanding--it's doxycycline that causes esophageal stricture
>if given without water (as my late cat was). The vet had prescribed
>baytril and I had heard bad things about it, specifically blindness, so
>I insisted (unfortunately) that he use something else and it was
>doxycycline he chose...disastrously. I wish I had let my cat be on
>baytril. Blindness is fairly rare if properly dosed, I think. At
>least he'd be alive now.
>
>It sounds as tho Tweaker is getting better. I wonder if he was
>stressed about your absence. I believe UTIs can be exacerbated by
>stress.

I wonder. I got myself off the island while I could still climb into
a cessna and drive myself to the clinic once I got to the mainland. I
didn't take Tweaker because I thought it might turn out to be
something requiring hospitalization. My tenants know I'm dotish on
him and they no doubt took good care of him... but it seems like a
strange coincidence that he would get seriously ill just a few days
after I left.

I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
but says it only happens on much higher doses. He also said it was
probably the best drug since the Clavamox failed. So, I'm gonna keep
giving him the stuff until it's gone.
>
>Speedy recovery to both of you boys.

Thanks. I'm completely healed and I think Tweaker is too.

Charlie

blkcatgal
December 6th 06, 05:38 AM
My cat had a UTI and the vet prescribed baytril. I had heard that baytril
could cause blindness and I specifically asked the vet about it. She
assured me that blindness only could occur at a high dosage (similar to what
you were told). So I went ahead and gave my cat the baytril. Cleared the
UTI up.

Good luck.

S.
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On 5 Dec 2006 18:22:12 -0800, "Candace" > wrote:
>
>>CatNipped wrote:
>>>
>>> From what I understand, you need to make sure they get plenty of water
>>> when
>>> giving Baytril (syringe several droppersful before and after pilling)
>>> because it can cause caustic burning of the esophagus.
>>>
>>> I believe it was Candace who had that problem, perhaps she will respond
>>> with
>>> more information if you ping her.
>>>
>>> Hugs,
>>>
>>> CatNipped
>>
>>No. Hi, I haven't been here for quite awhile either. Charlie, I'm
>>sorry about your surgery. Hope you're on the mend and Tweaker, too.
>>What a drag.
>>
>>CN, misunderstanding--it's doxycycline that causes esophageal stricture
>>if given without water (as my late cat was). The vet had prescribed
>>baytril and I had heard bad things about it, specifically blindness, so
>>I insisted (unfortunately) that he use something else and it was
>>doxycycline he chose...disastrously. I wish I had let my cat be on
>>baytril. Blindness is fairly rare if properly dosed, I think. At
>>least he'd be alive now.
>>
>>It sounds as tho Tweaker is getting better. I wonder if he was
>>stressed about your absence. I believe UTIs can be exacerbated by
>>stress.
>
> I wonder. I got myself off the island while I could still climb into
> a cessna and drive myself to the clinic once I got to the mainland. I
> didn't take Tweaker because I thought it might turn out to be
> something requiring hospitalization. My tenants know I'm dotish on
> him and they no doubt took good care of him... but it seems like a
> strange coincidence that he would get seriously ill just a few days
> after I left.
>
> I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> but says it only happens on much higher doses. He also said it was
> probably the best drug since the Clavamox failed. So, I'm gonna keep
> giving him the stuff until it's gone.
>>
>>Speedy recovery to both of you boys.
>
> Thanks. I'm completely healed and I think Tweaker is too.
>
> Charlie

Rhonda
December 6th 06, 06:59 AM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
> Thanks. As far as I can tell, Tweaker is tolerating the Baytril just
> fine, and it has definitely cleared up the infection. He was pretty
> miserable for awhile there. They have me giving him 1 and a quarter
> 22.7 mg pills once a day, which works out to about 5 mg/kg. I'm going
> to consult another vet, but it isn't that easy to get vet meds out
> here to the island, and I think I may have to continue with the
> Baytril but reduce the dosage slightly by eliminating the quarter
> pill.


Charlie, you have had your hands full! I'm sorry to hear about your
surgery, and about Tweaker. Hope you're back up to speed.

I didn't know there were problems with cats and Baytril. We've had a
couple of cats on it at different times for a week or two.

Aren't you in the San Juans? Do you ever take the ferry to Anacortes? It
probably takes awhile. I've only been to Orcas with the enroute stop at
the nun island -- but you must be on a farther island.

Hope Tweaker is over the hump. It seems like everything happens at once.

Rhonda

Wendy
December 6th 06, 01:01 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't been following this group because I've had my hands full...
> I had to go to the mainland to have my appendix removed, and the day I
> was released, my tenants contacted me and told me Tweaker was ****ing
> blood. I had them put him on a plane and got him to the vet right
> away. They diagnosed a serious infection but no blockage and
> prescribed Clavamox. It didn't work, so I went back to the vet and
> this time they gave him Baytril. That seems to be working better; he
> is using the litter box normally instead of every 15 minutes, and he
> seems more comfortable. But I'm aware that people in this group have
> had disasterous experiences with Baytril. My impression is that the
> big problem to watch out for is an inflamed esophogus. I don't see
> any indication of that; he's not choking or acting abnormally and his
> appetite is good. What else should I be watching out for?
>
> Charlie

IIRC my Isabelle ended up on Baytril when the Clavamox didn't do the trick
last year. That finally did knock out the infection for the time being at
least. Her problem is with her kidneys not the bladder and is an ongoing
thing. She has a flare up now and they put her on Amoxicillin.

Hope you're both feeling better soon.

W

Phil P.
December 6th 06, 05:36 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> >http://www.pandecats.com/x/baytril_warning.htm
> >
> >Baytril dosage is not to exceed 5mg/kg (5 mg/2.2lbs). I'd still switch
> >him to something else.
> >
> >-L.
>
> Hmmm. I wonder what other options are available? The dose he is on
> now works out to the maximum recommended.

Go with Orbax (Orbifloxacin). It is the same class of antibiotic as Baytril
(fluroquinolone), its more powerful, requires a smaller dose and its much
safer. Its also less likely to produce antibiotic-resistant strains of
bacteria. To top it off-- Its also less expensive.

Phil

Phil P.
December 6th 06, 05:56 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...

> I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> but says it only happens on much higher doses.

Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became blind
on *less* than the new recommended dose.

Tell your vet to read:

Enrofloxacin-associated retinal degeneration in cats in Veterinary
Ophthalmology (2001) 4,2, 99-106

Why take the chance when there's a better, safer, and cheaper drug (Orbax)?

Phil P.
December 6th 06, 06:06 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> > but says it only happens on much higher doses.
>
> Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became blind
> on *less* than the new recommended dose.
>
> Tell your vet to read:
>
> Enrofloxacin-associated retinal degeneration in cats in Veterinary
> Ophthalmology (2001) 4,2, 99-106


I'll save you the trouble:


http://maxshouse.com/Drugs/Pages%20from%20Enrofloxacin-associated_retinal_degeneration_in_cats-pg3.pdf


>
> Why take the chance when there's a better, safer, and cheaper drug
(Orbax)?
>
>

Phil P.
December 6th 06, 06:12 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> > but says it only happens on much higher doses.
>
> Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became blind
> on *less* than the new recommended dose.


Correction: 1 cat of the 45 went blind on 4.6 mg/kg PO once daily for 8
days.

>
> Tell your vet to read:
>
> Enrofloxacin-associated retinal degeneration in cats in Veterinary
> Ophthalmology (2001) 4,2, 99-106
>
> Why take the chance when there's a better, safer, and cheaper drug
(Orbax)?
>
>

-L.
December 6th 06, 06:25 PM
Phil P. wrote:
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> > > but says it only happens on much higher doses.
> >
> > Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became blind
> > on *less* than the new recommended dose.
>
>
> Correction: 1 cat of the 45 went blind on 4.6 mg/kg PO once daily for 8
> days.

That's just freaking scary. We used Baytril as a back-up to Clav all
the time. I'm glad i know better now- thanks!
-L.

Charlie Wilkes
December 6th 06, 09:53 PM
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:12:06 GMT, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
>"Phil P." > wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
>> > but says it only happens on much higher doses.
>>
>> Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became blind
>> on *less* than the new recommended dose.
>
>
>Correction: 1 cat of the 45 went blind on 4.6 mg/kg PO once daily for 8
>days.
>
>>
>> Tell your vet to read:
>>
>> Enrofloxacin-associated retinal degeneration in cats in Veterinary
>> Ophthalmology (2001) 4,2, 99-106
>>
>> Why take the chance when there's a better, safer, and cheaper drug
>(Orbax)?
>>
This sounds scary, but I notice the mode of administration was
parenteral rather than oral. I wonder if that might make a difference
in terms of higher serum levels immediately after dosing. But I'm out
of my depth with this.

I'm not sure what to do. I will call again and see if it's possible
to have some orbax sent out here. Meanwhile the cat seems to be doing
fine.

Thanks for this information.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
December 6th 06, 10:05 PM
On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:59:05 GMT, Rhonda >
wrote:

>Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. As far as I can tell, Tweaker is tolerating the Baytril just
>> fine, and it has definitely cleared up the infection. He was pretty
>> miserable for awhile there. They have me giving him 1 and a quarter
>> 22.7 mg pills once a day, which works out to about 5 mg/kg. I'm going
>> to consult another vet, but it isn't that easy to get vet meds out
>> here to the island, and I think I may have to continue with the
>> Baytril but reduce the dosage slightly by eliminating the quarter
>> pill.
>
>
>Charlie, you have had your hands full! I'm sorry to hear about your
>surgery, and about Tweaker. Hope you're back up to speed.
>
>I didn't know there were problems with cats and Baytril. We've had a
>couple of cats on it at different times for a week or two.
>
>Aren't you in the San Juans? Do you ever take the ferry to Anacortes? It
>probably takes awhile. I've only been to Orcas with the enroute stop at
>the nun island -- but you must be on a farther island.

Yes.
>
>Hope Tweaker is over the hump. It seems like everything happens at once.

Thanks. I got through it just fine; I had surgery on Fri. night and
walked out the door Monday a.m. feeling pretty good. Apparently I had
been walking around with a ruptured appendix for several days. I
always thought appendicitis hurt like hell, not just a little bit,
which is why I waited as long as I did. I'm damn glad I got off
before the storm hit.

Charlie
>
>Rhonda

Phil P.
December 7th 06, 12:42 AM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:12:06 GMT, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Phil P." > wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >>
> >> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > I talked to another vet today who is familiar with the Baytril story
> >> > but says it only happens on much higher doses.
> >>
> >> Au contare-- I have the original Gelatt study: 3 out 45 cats became
blind
> >> on *less* than the new recommended dose.
> >
> >
> >Correction: 1 cat of the 45 went blind on 4.6 mg/kg PO once daily for 8
> >days.
> >
> >>
> >> Tell your vet to read:
> >>
> >> Enrofloxacin-associated retinal degeneration in cats in Veterinary
> >> Ophthalmology (2001) 4,2, 99-106
> >>
> >> Why take the chance when there's a better, safer, and cheaper drug
> >(Orbax)?
> >>
> This sounds scary, but I notice the mode of administration was
> parenteral rather than oral.


The cat that became blind from the low dose (4.6 mg/kg) of Baytril did
received the drug orally. "PO" means by mouth.. All the cats in the study
received Baytril orally.


I wonder if that might make a difference
> in terms of higher serum levels immediately after dosing. But I'm out
> of my depth with this.

I don't think Baytril injection is approved for use in cats.

>
> I'm not sure what to do.

Go with Orbax.


I will call again and see if it's possible
> to have some orbax sent out here. Meanwhile the cat seems to be doing
> fine.


Most cats don't have any problems from Baytril-- except that one in 45. I
don't like those odds.

>
> Thanks for this information.


You're welcome.

Phil

>
> Charlie